Do rangers really need a nerf?

[Agitated_AT]

I mean I haven't played with the ranger myself, so I don't know much about it. But I hear from alot of rangers that the game is too easy. Not only that, but they do alot of damage as well. So rangers have advantage in not having to get too close, yet at the same time they deal the most damage. Now wtf is that?

I hope to hear from ranger players wether they think there should be a nerf. If so and it sounds to be really nescesary, when will they do it?

[Kondibon]

Having played a ranger for a while the only thing I feel needs a nerf specifically would be weak bullet, as it turns lots of bosses into a joke when combined with all the weak-point damage bonuses they can get.

That aside I actually find Force easier than ranger.

[iTz PooKiie xx]

No.>.>

[Agitated_AT]

Having played a ranger for a while the only thing I feel needs a nerf specifically would be weak bullet, as it turns lots of bosses into a joke when combined with all the weak-point damage bonuses they can get.

That aside I actually find Force easier than ranger.

Could you eleborate further on that? Take in mind every magic requires PP in comparison to where a ranger can just shoot endlessly

@pookie

Could you as well? Please don't post 1 word replies because you might as well say nothing.

[HIT0SHI]

I'm a hunter, but ive seen some rangers in action; The grenade launcher has a medium to long distance and its INSANE the damage it does. Other than that, rangers are "OK" I guess...

[HFlowen]

Not really. I kill things pleanty faster as a hunter. Weak bullet needs some slight changes though. Personally I would like to see the damage not stack with other weak points, but should actually shoot a bullet with a different damn button than normal attack.

[Lostbob117]

No, there is no reason to explain but, if they are nerfed they will be weaker than other classes. Hunters can do a lot of dps, I don't know about forces though.

[Neith]

Weak Bullet is overpowered as hell, doing 4-figure damage at about level 10 is stupid.

Aside from that, I feel launcher damage (standard shots) should be significantly reduced. They turn any large spawns into a joke. I still feel like RA has the highest DPS potential, whether I'm right is another thing altogether.

To be honest though, I feel all the classes need some adjustments (FO in particular as every skill worth getting seems to be on the Fire part of the skill tree).

[IHeartRice]

Not really. I kill things pleanty faster as a hunter. Weak bullet needs some slight changes though. Personally I would like to see the damage not stack with other weak points, but should actually shoot a bullet with a different damn button than normal attack.

In a way, I think this actually balances weak bullet. We can't easily fill our PP back up as fast to keep using PAs.

[Kondibon]

Could you eleborate further on that?Forces have a longer invincibility period in their dodge which makes it easier to avoid damage, and they can pinpoint target specific parts which makes getting break offs on things like banther or vol dragon a lot easier than as a hunter or ranger since you can instantly hit whatever part of them you want even if something is blocking you.

[iTz PooKiie xx]

Could you eleborate further on that?

@pookie

Could you as well? Please don't post 1 word replies because you might as well say nothing.

Shutup.

In all seriousness.I see Rangers as A support class especially while using weak shot since we can't switch weapons with weak shot on and can only use our PAs.

There's not really much to say but people will always complain when they have nothing else to do.And to the people who think its way to easy as a ranger it is because it's a practical class.

[Agitated_AT]

Shutup.

In all seriousness.I see Rangers as A support class especially while using weak shot since we can't switch weapons with weak shot on and can only use our PAs.

There's not really much to say but people will always complain when they have nothing else to do.And to the people who think its way to easy as a ranger it is because it's a practical class.

Ok nevermind


Forces have a longer invincibility period in their dodge which makes it easier to avoid damage, and they can pinpoint target specific parts which makes getting break offs on things like banther or vol dragon a lot easier than as a hunter or ranger since you can instantly hit whatever part of them you want even if something is blocking you.

I am a force, and I dont feel OP'ed at all. PP runs out quick and fills up slowly. So you can fill it up quicker by attacking, after using some magic it runs out again so that's kind of how it goes. Sometimes you cant engage and attack an enemy because it will kick your ass, especially at bosses. The end of the evasion move makes the force vulnerable again.

[Kondibon]

Not really. I kill things pleanty faster as a hunter. Weak bullet needs some slight changes though. Personally I would like to see the damage not stack with other weak points, but should actually shoot a bullet with a different damn button than normal attack.That would be a nerf to me, but yeah, that's one of the things about it that bugs me.

EDIT: I was refering to it stacking with other weakpoints, but the thing about it shooting with normal shots bugs me a little too, though it doesn't matter as much in a big MPA when 11 other people are wailing on the exact same spot anyway.


No, there is no reason to explain but, if they are nerfed they will be weaker than other classes. Hunters can do a lot of dps, I don't know about forces though.I don't think that's true. I had find Damage as a ranger, even when it's off. My issue is mainly that it stacks with the two weak-point bonuses in the skill tree and the weak-point bonus on sneakshot. And what HFlowen said.

[Arika]

So basically most people in this thread has come to agree that "Weak bullet need nerf"

so yes, we probably can expect that in the first coming big system patch with the new classes :p

[Blizz3112]

They should just make weak spots less effective, and weak shot weaker... grenade launchers should be a little shorter range, but after that... Rangers are okay, I guess...

[Xaeris]

Weak Bullet could stand a moderate nerf. As it is, it makes fights with boss monsters completely unsporting, especially in a big multi party.

[Husq]

Nope rangers don't need to be nerfed.
They just need to replace the locking on weakspot/enemy parts with a lock on whole enemy.
I started off playing as a ranger, but playing as a hunter in TPS mode is much easier. You don't get killed just by a few hits, and you kill things much faster, once you reach them. BTW hunters need jump boots, some of the flying enemies are just unreachable without using PA.

[IzzyData]

Weak bullet on a weak spot needs to not multiply the damage. Then rangers would be balanced. The point is to make any spot into a weak spot. Not weak bullet a weak spot and do 8000 damage.

[jooozek]

Weak bullet and sneak snipe both need nerfs and in exchange they should buff a little the base damage of the rifles. I mean, seriously man, its single target stuff and your dps is comparable to what a launcher can do in AoE lol

[Mystil]

Probably the launcher. The rest is fine and standard ranger gamplay.

[HFlowen]

Weak Bullet could stand a moderate nerf. As it is, it makes fights with boss monsters completely unsporting, especially in a big multi party.

Pretty much the basis of what I proposed. Non stacking damage would make party fights SLIGHTLY less of a joke, and using your normal attacks after loading bullets makes soloing better/funner.

The bullets replacing your normal attack makes all those skills so annoying. I'd even use bind bullet if I didn't have to stand around like a jerk waiting for my PP to recover.

[Daiyousei]

Nope rangers don't need to be nerfed.
They just need to replace the locking on weakspot/enemy parts with a lock on whole enemy.
I started off playing as a ranger, but playing as a hunter in TPS mode is much easier. You don't get killed just by a few hits, and you kill things much faster, once you reach them. BTW hunters need jump boots, some of the flying enemies are just unreachable without using PA.

I'm a ranger and I always play in third person, I don't like locking on as it usually locks on to the enemy I don't want to target, and with horrible accuracy too, the bullets spread everywhere. In TPS I can lead targets and strafe well in close range especially with diffuse shell. As for weak bullet, I only leveled to have 2 shots, 1 more just in case I miss the first, I'd gladly waste it so I can attack without waiting for PP to recover.

[SaiKo]

I'd say no, but eh... I play solo and the big numbers you can get are the only things that make the current weapons moderately enjoyable to me...

Well... Except Rodeo Drive. That's fun too.

If they want to give us a free skill tree reset though, I wouldn't rage too hard at them nerfing WB. Would probably still leave until Rangers got a new worthwhile weapon though.

[Zyrusticae]

Weak bullet and sneak snipe both need nerfs and in exchange they should buff a little the base damage of the rifles. I mean, seriously man, its single target stuff and your dps is comparable to what a launcher can do in AoE lol
I completely agree with this. There is nothing more to add.

[Mag-X]

As a ranger who mostly uses the rifle, I say yes and no. Unless I'm hitting the enemies weak point (which auto aim almost never aims for) my damage is absolute shit. I think the rifle needs a boost to it's normal damage. Weak bullet and sneak shooter might be a bit over powered, but I think it makes up for the fact that I'm pretty useless the 90% of the time I'm not using those skills.

I think launchers need to be changed though. It doesn't make sense to me how they do massive damage and splash damage both. The launcher should be like shotguns were in PSO1, hitting multiple enemies, but dividing up the damage.

[FenixStryk]

Rangers currently have the highest solo damage; Hunters can someone challenge that if they have a Ranger in the party to give them Weak Bullet, but otherwise no one comes close. Forces are not even in the same damage league.

That said, this is a PvE game. I would rather they just buff the other two classes slightly.

[GoldenFalcon]

Launcher just needs its base headshot/weakpoint damage multiplier toned down to match that of hunter (but still be affected by weak point advance)

As for weak point bullet, its multiplier should also be toned down by like 25%. Sneak Shooter is fine

[Daiyousei]

- Launchers are fine, really, it only becomes "annoying" when every single Ranger in an MPA has one and you can't see anything as a result (I usually just resort to using the zoomed map). When you're in a party with one or two Rangers though, it really isn't that big of a deal.



Launcher is overpowered really, have you seen the cluster bomb PA? big area and big damage, sure it's fun as I do use it as well, but also Zero Distance and other PAs, those are fine. Might just be my PA levels but that cluster bomb PA is doing the same damage to a big area as what I'd do to one enemy with Zero Distance or any other launcher PA.

Edit: then again, enemies always aggro on me so by the time I got the cluster bomb out, they've already closed the distance and not get hit by it.

[Kondibon]

- Speaking of Forces, give Photon Flare the duration of the Stance abilities, and make it reduce your HP by 50% at level 10 to offset this.
I'd actually use it if it were like that. >:

[GoldenFalcon]

Launcher is overpowered really, have you seen the cluster bomb PA? big area and big damage, sure it's fun as I do use it as well, but also Zero Distance and other PAs, those are fine. Might just be my PA levels but that cluster bomb PA is doing the same damage to a big area as what I'd do to one enemy with Zero Distance or any other launcher PA.

I can hit like 2500 with Divine Launcher if it counts as a headshot, while hitting like 6 enemies
Yet enemies still don't have more than 2000 health at this point. This is ridiculous
I also use Cluster Bomb when hitting heads/weakpoints is harder, but it certainly doesn't reach 2500

[FenixStryk]

- Forces Mirage Escape could use a severe i-frame reduction and speed increase, Jump ME is still too slow. No one needs that many i-frames, and if they do they should play another class.Uhh...? And what class, pray tell, should a Force switch to that has a comparable amount of i-frames on their dash? HU's is piddly and RA's might as well be only for the distance.

I wouldn't mind a faster dash, but I'm perfectly happy with my slow, safe, lag-proof, 60 frames of invincibility + 5 frames of recovery, it's-not-really-a-dash instant air dash. Resta and Mirage Escape are why I am a Force. If I want to go fast, I will switch to my Gunslash and leave it at that.

[Husq]

I'm a ranger and I always play in third person, I don't like locking on as it usually locks on to the enemy I don't want to target, and with horrible accuracy too, the bullets spread everywhere. In TPS I can lead targets and strafe well in close range especially with diffuse shell. As for weak bullet, I only leveled to have 2 shots, 1 more just in case I miss the first, I'd gladly waste it so I can attack without waiting for PP to recover.

Think the accuracy when locking on an enemy is done on purpose, to encourge rnaers to use the TPS view, but even then it is still too good imo. Even my hunter with gunslash rarely misses a hit at level 40. They should really get rid off it.
I was actually shocked to find out that in the normal camera mode the difficulty drops dramatically with all classes, and finally understand why some people say that this game is actually easy. But i prefer to stick with TPS with all classes, dodging, blocking and hitting enemy parts is much more comfortable in TPS.

[kkow]

As a ranger who mostly uses the rifle, I say yes and no. Unless I'm hitting the enemies weak point (which auto aim almost never aims for) my damage is absolute shit. I think the rifle needs a boost to it's normal damage. Weak bullet and sneak shooter might be a bit over powered, but I think it makes up for the fact that I'm pretty useless the 90% of the time I'm not using those skills.

I think launchers need to be changed though. It doesn't make sense to me how they do massive damage and splash damage both. The launcher should be like shotguns were in PSO1, hitting multiple enemies, but dividing up the damage.

quoted for truth. being ranger is suffering 90% of the time, unless launcher spam which is zzzzboring. boost rifle dmg plz.

how about sega increase game difficulty, because how it stands, everything is a joke in a multiparty.

[jooozek]

how about sega increase game difficulty, because how it stands, everything is a joke in a multiparty.

They are going to add some boosted versions of bosses that will be able to buff stuff around:
When bosses with two names spawn (like Tyrant Rockbear), they will have increased HP and Attack Power. These types of bosses will beef up the stats of surrounding enemies too. (http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-japan-two-weeks-later-status-report-and-maintenance/)
Very hard mode is coming in Fall and a gigantic boss (whatever that means) is coming in winter (http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-japan-2012-road-map/)

[JeyKama]

After playing FO and RA to 40 and halfway through HU, I'd have to say that the only thing about RA that really deserves a nerf is the launcher AOE radius. I see a lot of kneejerk negativity in this thread and while I think that JP youtube video is a huge part of it, I think a lot of it is undeserving.

While I'm not going to say that I speak for the combat mechanic designers of PSO2, bosses in this game are NOT BALANCED AROUND MULTIPARTY. Until harder modes come out, it's just ezmode for now, so no use complaining.

Weak Shot is NOT BALANCED AROUND MULTIPARTY. It shines the best in 3-4 person parties (which, amazingly enough, bosses are also designed for) but just gets seen as obscenely OP in multiparties where 11 other people can be hitting the weak point instead of just 2-3.

In solo, Weak Shot/Sneak Shot seems pretty amazing, but has a terrible damage per second output otherwise, and is absolutely single target. In fact, pretty much everything Rifle is single-target other than the PAs no one ever seems to complain about.

Launchers are pretty nice but the rate of fire makes shots relatively weak without JA. There is loldivinelauncher spam, but Divine Launcher already has the highest PP cost in the game and combined with the worst PP regen weapon in the game... well...

tbh, if they decide to nerf RA, they they should make all FO techs missile-based as well. If anything deserves a nerf, it's FO has no positioning requirement except to cast shifta on themselves once in awhile.

[GoldenFalcon]

that JP youtube video is a huge part of it

Enlighten me

[Cortte]

I maxed out my ranger a couple days ago and while personally I don't believe weak bullet needs a nerf. If I were to think of how it could be a bit more balanced. Let's say that the bullet weakness still stack with normal weak spots, but the damage increase only applies to the ranger who shot it. This alone would make a max level ranger pretty evenly matched with the other 2 classes in damage, but only DURING the weak bullet phase. What kind of damage can a maxed out fire tree FO accomplish. In the area of 2 - 3k at a constant rate I am guessing, where as a ranger can get incredibly high damage every 90 seconds, then it drops right back down to maybe 1.5k max till cool downs finish. Not to mention that in large groups weak bullet is absolutely useless in most cases. As for the launcher I guess a ranged nerf would make sense but still I don't believe the damage is all that high. A lot of it may also depend on the users mag. I have 15 R attack on my mag, 15. I bet all that insane damage comes from user with a full R attack build or something like that. Let's keep in mind that at one point even in PSO most enemies in ultimate would drop like flies.

[GoldenFalcon]

Let's keep in mind that at one point even in PSO most enemies in ultimate would drop like flies.

400+ damage per shot mechguns, and 6-hit lv30 Gifoie don't really count..

[eharima]

NO.
After playing 300+ hr as Ranger, im currently lv17 Hunter, and admitadly still learning the ropes of what weapons and PA's are best suite for me, but IMO

Rangers dont need nerfing, Hunters need BOOSTING... man, its just not reap time enough plkaying hunter, shit needs more AoE destruction, and since dash got shortend rather than having a longer cool down pause Hu just feels gimped.

Do swords have a varaiable attack range? because they feel short, and fucking lol at trying to beat flying enemys solo.

JeyKama calls a good point about it being early days in multy party rape, lets see how V.hard and ultimate hold up as well as new content and classes.

so gtfo my weak bullet and AoE launcher, *NO_FUN_ALLOWED.JPG !! :etongue:

[JeyKama]

Enlighten me

eh, probably http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOoBaXDK07w&feature=youtu.be The author fails at giving out his stats, so think what you will. If anything, it just shows what a character with perfect gear can do to a lower level mob.

[JayD-X]

Considering that our normal regular combo's are weak as hell, I think PA's and Weak Bullet are where they need to be. I think Ranger's are balanced, but maybe that's because I'm a big biased. lol

[Aumi]

Personally I would like to see the damage not stack with other weak points, but should actually shoot a bullet with a different damn button than normal attack.

I support the idea of having weak bullet (and similar active skills) use a different button. Perhaps sacrificing the dodge mechanic to make it a bit harder to use. But not being able to shoot normally and refill your PP bar sucks. But I do think that weak bullet should continue to stack with other weak points, but perhaps the overall damage could be nerfed a bit.

[gravityvx]

Buff rifle damage, nerf weak bullet, balanced.

[DemonMike]

I've always been confused when it comes to weak bullet. As much as I love it and use it very often, there's some parts that don't make sense.

One thing I can't see much sense in is how it stacks when used on the enemies weak point. Seems overkill to me. I think that's all the balance it needs, that or make it so that weak bullet completely changes the enemies weak point to where it was placed temporarily.

For example: Shoot ragne's leg with weak bullet making the leg the weak point, but the core behind its head reverts to a standard defence value rather than ALSO being a weak point. It might make people be a lot more strategic if it was used like that.

The other thing that doesn't make sense to me is, why didn't it act like zalure from the very start? Rangers got jellen bullet after all.

[sugarFO]

This isn't WoW! Instead of nerfing anyone, why not suggest buffs to others? Nerfs only make people angry. Just look at the WoW community!

[Omega-z]

Force's are fine there attack rate is the lowest with a mild PP regan rate with the fire path. the only time they can truly spam is with the PB. but 1-3K of avg. of 2-4 sec.s (adding recharge time) is not besting a Ranger's attack and that power only happen's if the Force goes all out on it.
lol on, ME it was already nerfed the iframes where reduced and and replying was delayed so we could get hit and also so we couldn't fly as far. it's one reason why the ME is slower then before, it would be nice to speed it up but then we would be casting ME easier too, so no it's better slow. And don't forget that where weaker too for it. Also there will be elemental resistant's in this game so most of the force power will be very much reduced and will rely on Ranger's for added damage.

[Lumpen Thingy]

imagine how all the classes will be at lvl 50 so people can continue saying what needs to be nerfed

[Zorafim]

From what I've seen, launcher damage might be too high, and weak shot is definitely too good. It's not really big enough that playing other classes seems a pain though, so I don't know if they really need to be nerfed.

[Leyline]

Fix launcher combo so you cannot jump off an object and fire 10 shots with no reload.

Make weak bullet manual mode only (lower damage when weak bullet stacked on weak point.)

Force nerf lock on also, you can manual aim rafoie etc... Maybe limit how it locks on, locking onto a part and then stay away from the boss rest of fight or until you need to lock onto a new spot is pretty cheap.

I've played all classes level 40 rotate each week, these suggestions nerf "DPS" in terms of how fast you are landing your hits, but don't actually tweak the stats. You could maintain the same damage you had if you are skilled enough.

-----
General summary- Nerf lock on to major body parts (no weak point or breakable parts).

[Zyrusticae]

This isn't WoW! Instead of nerfing anyone, why not suggest buffs to others? Nerfs only make people angry. Just look at the WoW community!

You can't do that.

If you just buff everybody, eventually you'll have to buff the enemies as well. It's a lot easier to just bring the outliers closer to the average than to create a new average over time through power creep.

[Ueno54]

Rangers are fine. However I'd like a boss that could reflect weak bullet back on the ranger and shoot a homing attack at them.

[Sakarisei]

This isn't WoW! Instead of nerfing anyone, why not suggest buffs to others? Nerfs only make people angry. Just look at the WoW community!

You can't compare WoW with PSO2. At least WoW has got PVP so... it's not strange seeing balancing any class. However, even this game is totally PVE, it's not funny seeing a class which really doesn't need help of any class. Otherwise, play city missions. They always destroyes enemies without help of hunters or forces. Furthermore, although Forces can do a lot of damage with Gigrants, hunters are now useless in PSO2...

[Mystil]

This isn't WoW! Instead of nerfing anyone, why not suggest buffs to others? Nerfs only make people angry. Just look at the WoW community!

You're right that nerfs make people angry.

[gigawuts]

I played ranger all day yesterday, leveled up to 17 with client orders. Even hilariously underleveled, where I get two shotted by standard dagans, while solo, ranger is easy mode.

It doesn't need a nerf, it just needs to be made less effective in new content. Leave it with what it already has, but make what it has less universally powerful. Something like weak bullet reflect is good, but immunity to being knocked into the air is also good. Perhaps enemies that prioritize players dealing r-atk damage.

Now that I've gotten used to it (and ground up a pair of 4 star weapons to +10) it's fun. I hadn't realized the auto aim some players hate is literally auto-aim, I thought they meant the target lock. This is hilarious. Oh, a code attack? Click in time for just attacks, otherwise watch TV.

I'll be getting up my ranger specifically to find hunter rares :/

[GoldenFalcon]

eh, probably http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOoBaXDK07w&feature=youtu.be The author fails at giving out his stats, so think what you will. If anything, it just shows what a character with perfect gear can do to a lower level mob.

That's not a lower level mob, it's obviously Hard Mode panthers, and bosses are a joke when they stand still
Also, they stood next to the boss portal for a whole minute to make weak point bullet's recharge go down, so that effectively doubles how long it actually took to kill them

[Blizz3112]

A character with Level difference of 4 in comparison to enemies should never ever be able to deal 9999 damage to it, no matter the gear...

[IHeartRice]

Rangers are fine as they are, let's see:

- Worst dodge in the game
- AR does horrible damage unless actually hitting a weak point
- Must rely on manual aim more often than Force and Hunter
- Die in about the same number of hits as a Force
- Can't do normal attacks to regain PP faster when a skill is in use (Weak Bullet, Bind Bullet, etc.)
- Launchers have slow PP gain, make the player unmovable when shooting, and the strongest PA takes around 40 PP (iirc)

But no, let's complain about a skill that benefits everyone in an already easy game that is only PvE.

[GrieverXVII]

Me and my bro both level 40. Ranger and Hunter. Equipped starting weapons and went to verse both rockbears on free forest. We both took our own rockbear and both defeated our guy in roughly about the same time, maybe a couple hits difference. The way i see it is, the Hunter has consistency when it comes to dps, it may not be extremelu high but not terribly low either and has a decent attack rate. As for Ranger the rifle's normal attack is generally pretty weak unless capitalizing on headshots, still low end dmg though, weak shot gives the ranger some extreme dmg but only for a limited time and it has to be pulled off with precision and good timing. And everyone can abuse weakshot which is win win.

Bottomline for me is, they are both fairly equal, they just have different ways of doing damage.

[darkante]

I like to see the AR dmg buffed a bit and nerf weak bullet a little.
Something that makes it generally useful (if you are not hitting weakpoints) but not too outshined by Launcher on mobs.

I hate spamming Launcher all the time for mobs.

[Angelo]

I think Launchers need to be looked at.

Maybe fix them without nerfing the damage, like making a longer delay in the firing rate.

[gigawuts]

That would still decrease the dps. Just separate AOE from bullet damage, and give different enemies different resistances.

[JayD-X]

Me and my bro both level 40. Ranger and Hunter. Equipped starting weapons and went to verse both rockbears on free forest. We both took our own rockbear and both defeated our guy in roughly about the same time, maybe a couple hits difference. The way i see it is, the Hunter has consistency when it comes to dps, it may not be extremelu high but not terribly low either and has a decent attack rate. As for Ranger the rifle's normal attack is generally pretty weak unless capitalizing on headshots, still low end dmg though, weak shot gives the ranger some extreme dmg but only for a limited time and it has to be pulled off with precision and good timing. And everyone can abuse weakshot which is win win.

Bottomline for me is, they are both fairly equal, they just have different ways of doing damage.
Exactly. Me and a buddy did this similar thing. We went into Forest and both fought a separate Rockbear. Both Lv.32. Each time he swung his sword he was doing close to 300 hits on the Rockbear, and his PA's were ranging from 500-700. Now, you look at my fight and I'm doing around 70-80 hits with the normal combo with the rifle on head shots, and 200-300 with PA's. Once I shot weak bullet at the head of the Rockbear I was doing around 120 hits per shot, then with the "Craw Shot" PA I was doing around 1800-2000 hits per shot. That being said, my friend finished off his Rockbear before me. It has a lot to do with Weak Bullet only lasting for a certain amount of time. Rangers don't need nerfs. People just need to stop concentrating on how much damage they can do with Weak Bullet. Their Skill Tree attacks and Photon Arts have to be strong, or else the Ranger would suck shit.

[Shadowth117]

Exactly. Me and a buddy did this similar thing. We went into Forest and both fought a separate Rockbear. Both Lv.32. Each time he swung his sword he was doing close to 300 hits on the Rockbear, and his PA's were ranging from 500-700. Now, you look at my fight and I'm doing around 70-80 hits with the normal combo with the rifle on head shots, and 200-300 with PA's. Once I shot weak bullet at the head of the Rockbear I was doing around 120 hits per shot, then with the "Craw Shot" PA I was doing around 1800-2000 hits per shot. That being said, my friend finished off his Rockbear before me. It has a lot to do with Weak Bullet only lasting for a certain amount of time. Rangers don't need nerfs. People just need to stop concentrating on how much damage they can do with Weak Bullet. Their Skill Tree attacks and Photon Arts have to be strong, or else the Ranger would suck shit.

Okay well explain how when someone can beat the snow cats alone under two minutes with weak shot because they can hit 9999's that that isn't broken please. Its possible to have good stats, armor and PAs as well as put everything you can into weak shot.

As someone who has seen all clases pushed to ther maximum, I would honestly say that a Ranger's weak shot is ridiculously broken. Other than that, Ranger is fine. Honestly, it would actually make them more useful if instead of one uber weak point you could put many on multiple hit targets. Perhaps make it so there are more weak bullets. But dear god, the amount of damage you can do with it really isn't necessary.

[Jakosifer]

Eh. If Weak Shot didn't stack on Weak Points in the first place I highly doubt anyone would call Ranger as a class OP.

[Hrith]

Rangers only have high DPS against single targets and only with Weak Bullet and Weak Hit Advance 1/2, which is pretty situational. Other than that - most of the time - they have the lowest DPS of the three classes, so nerfing them would be sincerely retarted.

[iTz PooKiie xx]

Rangers are fine as they are, let's see:

- Worst dodge in the game
- AR does horrible damage unless actually hitting a weak point
- Must rely on manual aim more often than Force and Hunter
- Die in about the same number of hits as a Force
- Can't do normal attacks to regain PP faster when a skill is in use (Weak Bullet, Bind Bullet, etc.)
- Launchers have slow PP gain, make the player unmovable when shooting, and the strongest PA takes around 40 PP (iirc)

But no, let's complain about a skill that benefits everyone in an already easy game that is only PvE.

Thank you.

[JayD-X]

When you have a maxed mag and the best rifle that is grinded to ten of course you're going to do a hell of a lot of damage, but come one, how many people have you seen on the field doing 9999 damage? That's why it's a video. Without a powerful Weak Bullet the Ranger would be garbage. Trash. Waste.

[Angelo]

That would still decrease the dps. Just separate AOE from bullet damage, and give different enemies different resistances.

Yeah, I understand it will decrease dps, that's the point.

The concept of raw DPS doesn't really hold up well in an action-oriented game like this, it would still have utility from being a big AoE burst.

I don't know, just throwing out ideas (albeit in deaf ears).

Separating AoE from bullet damage is a good idea too.

[Blizz3112]

Seems more like people are scared to lose their overpowered dominating Ranger here... ;-) (jk)

But seriously, 9999 on a boss 4 levels lower than you isn't exactly what you call fun for others around such a ranger. Its like... cool a boss, then the ranger shoots it to hell in a couple minutes, and you are like... okay, that was bullsh*t...

They also could, you know, up the damage on normal attacks to compensate for it...

[raiden55]

just require weak shot to work only on TPS view and not on any part of the monster and it's balanced.

also true that's there's something wrong with base damage of the launcher...
but don't forget launcher stop your movement when you shot, so you're pretty vulnerable using it.
on the opposite the rocket skill of the rifle don't do much damage, but you can use it while moving

[Shadowth117]

just require weak shot to work only on TPS view and not on any part of the monster and it's balanced.


All that does is make it so that people have to try aim more carefully. Doesn't really fix it if you can work around that. :/

[Mag-X]

Okay well explain how when someone can beat the snow cats alone under two minutes with weak shot because they can hit 9999's that that isn't broken please. Its possible to have good stats, armor and PAs as well as put everything you can into weak shot.


I honestly don't know how that person did that. I put my skill points into weak bullet, and weak hit. My weak bullet plus sneak shooter normally only does 3000 damage. Sometimes it'll maybe do 5000. Also, it misses half the time anyway since he moves around so much. And if he does decide to actually attack me? I'm screwed. One hit takes off half my health, and then the second I get up he delivers the finished blow.


Also, seriously. Bosses are the only time I feel useful. In multi-party areas, forces kill all the trash mobs with their AEO spells and hunters kill all the big stuff in the time it takes me to finish off one or two trash mobs. The rifle's normal damage is pitiful.

[Zipzo]

Forces have a longer invincibility period in their dodge which makes it easier to avoid damage, and they can pinpoint target specific parts which makes getting break offs on things like banther or vol dragon a lot easier than as a hunter or ranger since you can instantly hit whatever part of them you want even if something is blocking you.There's also a recovery window to the mirage dodge which completely makes up for the increased duration of invulnerability Forces have over Hunters or Rangers. I wouldn't say it's easier so much as it is, just a different kind of dodge ability with its perks. It takes a good couple of seconds to be able to cast anything after a Force dodge, where as the Hunter dodge is instantaneously done and you can continue swinging, same to the Ranger roll..

[Mystil]

On the other hand it's probably best to wait til these sub-classes or whatever comes out and a few more new areas, lvls, skills, etc before considering bring out the Legendary Nerf Bat.

[Cyclon]

Ah, I remember that time we had a full multiparty of hunters circling an area for hours, and we couldn't get a single burst. Maybe some were hardly trying; I know I wasn't. What I thought at that time was "okay, we definitely need rangers and forces to get anything done. Question is, do they need us?"

Oh right, the topic.
So yeah, launchers hit hard, especially in the city where lower ennemies have their weak spots close to the ground, and you always hit it with launchers. And weak shot is OP on single targets. That effectively makes rangers very strong against about anything the game can throw at them.

Do rangers need a nerf? Probably. Do I care if they stay as they are? Not really.

Edit: Also this:

On the other hand it's probably best to wait til these sub-classes or whatever comes out and a few more new areas, lvls, skills, etc before considering bring out the Legendary Nerf Bat.

[Kondibon]

There's also a recovery window to the mirage dodge which completely makes up for the increased duration of invulnerability Forces have over Hunters or Rangers. I wouldn't say it's easier so much as it is, just a different kind of dodge ability with its perks. It takes a good couple of seconds to be able to cast anything after a Force dodge, where as the Hunter dodge is instantaneously done and you can continue swinging, same to the Ranger roll..I agree, I never said it's better, there's just a much bigger window to dodge so I find it easier to avoid fast attacks. I honestly like the hunter dodge the most though.

[_knot_]

[spoiler-box]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/_knot_/PSO2/pso20120712_171315_000.jpg[/spoiler-box]
[spoiler-box]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/_knot_/PSO2/pso20120709_124903_003.jpg[/spoiler-box]
Yes these targets did have Weak Bullet applied to them. But take notice of my levels vs the target. A RA could NEVER hit 9999 with this little of level gap. On that note, I haven't seen a RA hit 9999 ever. So what's the problem? RA's are utility, they help the team achieve their goals. I don't think there are any problems with them. Maybe you people playing HU need to play BETTER and SMARTER.

[Kondibon]

This is exactly why I think it needs a nerf actually.

[NoiseHERO]

[spoiler-box]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/_knot_/PSO2/pso20120712_171315_000.jpg[/spoiler-box]
[spoiler-box]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/_knot_/PSO2/pso20120709_124903_003.jpg[/spoiler-box]
Yes these targets did have Weak Bullet applied to them. But take notice of my levels vs the target. A RA could NEVER hit 9999 with this little of level gap. On that note, I haven't seen a RA hit 9999 ever. So what's the problem? RA's are utility, they help the team achieve their goals. I don't think there are any problems with them. Maybe you people playing HU need to play BETTER and SMARTER.

Bah My highest damage is only 8.7k with weak bullet on ragne's weakspot...

Could probably do higher if I got... some things that shouldn't be hard to get... /eyes shift

Also yes, Ra CAN do 9999 damage on their own with weak bullet..

[_knot_]

My equipment isnt too uber. I was lvl 35 in one of the screens and I'm using Daylight Scars ffs!


Also yes, Ra CAN do 9999 damage on their own with weak bullet.. pics or it didnt happen

[NoiseHERO]

My equipment isnt too uber. I was lvl 35 in one of the screens and I'm using Daylight Scars ffs!

pics or it didnt happen

There was a whole video of it being used to solo Panther and Banshee...

I never really saved it though, a lot of people have seen it by now though.

[skuld01]

A nerf is already applied since Open beta, where you can't Q-lockon some of the weakpoints. Or reduce the "magnet" effect on targeting onto weakpoint automatically when you are not at over shoulder camera.

For example: Rockbear's head.

Also you can't Q-lockon De-Mammoth's back.


You can still lock Vol Dragon's tail, horn. Dark Ragne's core, and Vol dragon's back horn only can be lock when they are "down" and you climb on them.

[gigawuts]

[spoiler-box]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/_knot_/PSO2/pso20120712_171315_000.jpg[/spoiler-box]
[spoiler-box]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/_knot_/PSO2/pso20120709_124903_003.jpg[/spoiler-box]
Yes these targets did have Weak Bullet applied to them. But take notice of my levels vs the target. A RA could NEVER hit 9999 with this little of level gap. On that note, I haven't seen a RA hit 9999 ever. So what's the problem? RA's are utility, they help the team achieve their goals. I don't think there are any problems with them. Maybe you people playing HU need to play BETTER and SMARTER.

I was beginning to wonder if this was the same internet I've become so familiar with, since nobody was breaking out the silly l2p claims

but then this happened, so thanks for this

[Sirius-91]

There was a whole video of it being used to solo Panther and Banshee...

I never really saved it though, a lot of people have seen it by now though.

It's because that person maximized weak hit, not weak bullet and went for a pure R-ATK build. All weak bullet does at higher levels is reduce cool down and add up to 4 "Weak Bullets".

I only have lv 3. Even without weakbullet, I do a moderate damage due to abilities added. It's the gear and skill tree is what causes the damage, not just weak bullet.

[skuld01]

There was a whole video of it being used to solo Panther and Banshee...

I never really saved it though, a lot of people have seen it by now though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUaPy56J3D8

[Sirius-91]

?PSO2?????Ra?????Part2??????? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUaPy56J3D8)

and the build is

Tigredor +10: 50% Ice Element, Rappy Soul + Shoot lv 3

Calvaria set +10: Ability lv 3 + Shoot lv 3

Weak Bullet Lv 10

Weak Hit advanced 1&2 at lv 10

Standing Snipe lv 7

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/ranger.html?01RA!IOI2IbJdas8

[MegaMettaurX]

So basically most people in this thread has come to agree that "Weak bullet need nerf"

so yes, we probably can expect that in the first coming big system patch with the new classes :p

their damage output needs a nerf too. the amount of rangers there are in this game already kinda makes playing hunter moot, unless you're soloing. Hunters barely have any time to contribute anything to an MPA unless you're just spamming grenades or any other ranged P.A.

[Ueno54]

Hunter is only allowed to hit that high WITH weak bullet, because you have to literally be inside the mob for that PA to go off. Please don't brag in such a silly way.

[Zyrusticae]

Seriously, the fact that Weak Bullet is a must-have on any ranger build is kind of a big red flag. It SHOULD be nerfed, but the other abilities may also be in need of buffing... Maybe. I don't know.

[Geistritter]

They'd have to nerf Force long before Ranger.


Seriously, the fact that Weak Bullet is a must-have on any ranger build is kind of a big red flag. It SHOULD be nerfed, but the other abilities may also be in need of buffing... Maybe. I don't know.

There are must-haves with every class.

[Zyrusticae]

There are must-haves with every class.
Yes, AND THAT IS A PROBLEM. Must-haves shouldn't exist. Every class should have incentive to try out different things. Anything else is an obvious sign of imbalance.

And I somehow fail to see why Force is more nerf-worthy than Ranger, especially considering they are fully incapable of causing bosses to go down anywhere nearly as quickly as rangers...

[gigawuts]

How to fix solo Weak Bullet without nerfing the vital teamwork element: Either all rangers or only the caster gain just half the bonus damage of other classes.

If a ranger normally hits for 100 damage, and with weak bullet deals 900 damage, the extra is 800. Cut that in half, for a new total of 500. Other classes' bonuses, perhaps even other rangers' bonuses, remain unchanged.

Yes, I'm fully aware that's not how the formula actually calculates it - but that's the gist of what I'm getting at.

How to fix supposed Ranger OPness without nerfing the class into a crater, which is even worse than being OP: Have new enemies in new areas with enormous R-Def but very vulnerable weak points (Think yetis and mammoths, but with very high R-Def)

Then to add versatility, give the gunslash weak bullet capability and have the gunslash's melee NOT waste weak bullets. To compensate for lower S-ATK, leave the melee attacks with the bigger weak bullet bonus.

Any disagreements on these changes?

edit: To specify, I don't think the "problem" is their max damage. I think the problem is how lazily they can play while being so highly effective. Their roll is not bad, stop saying it is. You just need to time it right - and that's not hard at all. The need for manual aiming or some semblance of precision is not an excuse for high damage, but I don't think the high damage is necessarily an issue. I think the way weak bullet is used as a personal buff is more of an issue than how rangers can use it to get such high damage. Rangers can easily sit around and M1 in MPA's with no penalty whatsoever, while other classes have to work for their damage. Forces run out of PP and have to wait or hit stuff to regain it, hunters have to risk taking damage to deal damage, rangers can stand on a box and m1 with periodic M2's.

[Geistritter]

Yes, AND THAT IS A PROBLEM. Must-haves shouldn't exist. Every class should have incentive to try out different things. Anything else is an obvious sign of imbalance.

I don't mind, and most other people don't, either; too many choices can be as bad a thing as EVERYTHING EVER not being balanced. If anything needs to be corrected, it's the "max or useless" way most of the skill bonuses work; then people don't have to invest everything into "must-have" skills.


And I somehow fail to see why Force is more nerf-worthy than Ranger, especially considering they are fully incapable of causing bosses to go down anywhere nearly as quickly as rangers...

You shouldn't be so quick to state your opinion as fact. My pal primarily rolls as Force and does as much damage with Rafoie as I do with Divine Launcher, but can fire it off much quicker, and for half the PP. His unit setup is also giving him an additional 20 PP, only making the destruction more intense.

He was also able to solo the Hard Dark Ragne city mission before I was, and with greater ease, and I was the one with Weak Shot. It can be rather demoralizing playing with a Force that doesn't think their only role is "babysit everyone else".

And that's just down the fire tree; a Force going purely down just about any tree is pretty damn powerful, but fire's probably the strongest. He's got a tree for each element and decimates with all of them, but likes Fire the best and finds it's the most versatile even when not dealing with enemies weak to it.


How to fix solo Weak Bullet without nerfing the vital teamwork element: Either all rangers or only the caster gain just half the bonus damage of other classes.

This doesn't work either, because again, Rangers aren't the strongest class, and Hunters aren't even way behind in third place, to the point where they may not even be third. Making Rangers significantly outpaced by everyone makes the class less desirable, and that's not particularly fair.

[NoiseHERO]

So first everyones all "LAUNCHER > RIFLE"

Now it's all "NERF WEAK BULLET IT'S THE ONLY THING USEFUL ON RANGER"

I dunno... I think there's a fair choice between going rifle OR Launcher OR playing around with traps... Maybe not completely, but choosing whatever won't really make or break your game...

It seems like Between this thread, The Launcher vs Rifle thread and the Rod vs Cards thread everyones reasoning behind anything, with any weapon, with any class being either "overpowered" or "most efficient" is "What kills the fastest?" The only difference between those two definitions for you guys is who prefers what.

/Continues building a pure lightning FO and a Trap Based Ranger while everyone bickers about what weapon kills everything in 2 seconds vs what weapon kills everything in 1.9 seconds regardless of what "build" or "skill" you have because this is just a post-PSU Phantasy Star game.

[Zyrusticae]

I don't mind, and most other people don't, either; too many choices can be as bad a thing as EVERYTHING EVER not being balanced. If anything needs to be corrected, it's the "max or useless" way most of the skill bonuses work; then people don't have to invest everything into "must-have" skills.
Please speak for yourself.

I, at least, do not appreciate it when everyone MUST get one thing and one thing only because all other choices are vastly inferior. What is the point of even having the other choices if there's one or two that are just obviously better in every way?

Certainly, having bonuses scale less harshly would help, but that does NOT solve the inherent problem of poor choices.


You shouldn't be so quick to state your opinion as fact. My pal primarily rolls as Force and does as much damage with Rafoie as I do with Divine Launcher, but can fire it off much quicker, and for half the PP. His unit setup is also giving him an additional 20 PP, only making the destruction more intense.
Well, yes, that's because Forces are intended to be the strongest AoE class. That much is abundantly obvious considering, y'know, all of their techs do AoE damage.

However, you didn't mention one thing - the fact that rafoie's AoE range is considerably smaller than the launcher's AoE range. That may change at higher tech levels, but right now, the launcher is the clear king of AoE.



And that's just down the fire tree; a Force going purely down just about any tree is pretty damn powerful, but fire's probably the strongest. He's got a tree for each element and decimates with all of them, but likes Fire the best and finds it's the most versatile even when not dealing with enemies weak to it.
And there you have it. The fire tree is just plain OP. No, really, it is. It's the only tree that gets a charge time reduction (50%!! WTF?!) in addition to charge pp recovery, and is a prime example of when an imbalance is just making everything else look bad. What do the other trees get that can compete? Hah! Good luck with that.


He was also able to solo the Hard Dark Ragne city mission before I was, and with greater ease, and I was the one with Weak Shot. It can be rather demoralizing playing with a Force that doesn't think their only role is "babysit everyone else".
See, solo is irrelevant. The game is not intended to be played solo. The fact that you can play it solo is just a convenience. It is, in every way that matters, an inferior experience and an inferior way to play.

In groups, rangers are just ridiculously strong. Yes, the limitation of being unable to recharge pp with normal attacks when using weak shot hurts, but in a group, that doesn't matter - things die ten times faster when a ranger with weak shot is in the group, which is absurd by any conceivable measure!

Mind you, I do not actually think rangers are OP. But I don't think Forces are OP either. I just hate the fact that there is one ranger skill that everybody latches onto because, yes, it is just that much better than everything else.

And it blows my mind that people defend this. Really, it does.

[gigawuts]

This doesn't work either, because again, Rangers aren't the strongest class, and Hunters aren't even way behind in third place, to the point where they may not even be third. Making Rangers significantly outpaced by everyone makes the class less desirable, and that's not particularly fair.

Then 25% less damage, the exact number doesn't matter so much as the idea itself. Should rangers really benefit from a team-oriented ability as much as other players, to the point where it becomes used as a personal damage buff instead of a teamwork buff?

I understand it's meant to be both, but I don't particularly like the implementation.

This game has done a great job of adding mechanics that don't penalize the player. Things such as no enemy elemental resistances - only weaknesses. That was a great change. I just wish the force had a skill that bonused damage to an enemy's weakness.

[Geistritter]

So first everyones all "LAUNCHER > RIFLE"

Now it's all "NERF WEAK BULLET IT'S THE ONLY THING USEFUL ON RANGER"

...Just because launchers are overall more useful than rifles doesn't mean Weak Shot isn't also useful. As I say everywhere else, if you only use one thing always, you're only hampering your effectiveness.


It seems like Between this thread, The Launcher vs Rifle thread and the Rod vs Cards thread everyones reasoning behind anything, with any weapon, with any class being either "overpowered" or "most efficient" is "What kills the fastest?" The only difference between those two definitions for you guys is who prefers what.

I'll agree with this in general, but even I think there are some aspects of my preferred class that need work; Assault Rifles are outpaced by everything else available to a Ranger except for Sneak Shoot, and even it's not that good; it's just your best option for what it does, which is a relatively fast, moderately powerful attack against a single target. Every single other one of its PAs are second-rate at best, and flat out awful at worst. Launchers do better here - about half of its PAs are legitimately viable and don't have a consistent replacement elsewhere - but a couple are inexplicably useless.

Gunslashes kind of suffer from having to have something useful for everyone, but the charge shot is god awful, and Ein Raketen (which, to be fair, isn't good anyway) and Rage Dance suffer on Rangers because their Slashing isn't as good as Hunters' Shooting. Thrillsplosion is one of the most overpowered things in the game, though.

[Hansha]

I like how everyone keeps linking that one video of a player doing 9999 damage for their arguments.
Afterall, it's outdated. Rangers should be having an extra 120 damage through Tranmizers soul.

Anyways, Rangers are honestly too good. The most consistent AOE damage weapon is at their disposal and wrecks all of the small mobs easily. And whatever it doesn't kill, it stuns ( nvm tossing them in the air with divine launcher). I've heard arguments against launcher being bad though, and their reasons are valid. There are tons of mobs that do these massive long range attacks which kill you in one hit, and a Ranger doesn't have a decent dodge to deal with situations. So basically, their dodge isn't useful for dodging attacks from 50ft away while in the sky shooting rockets. Not only that, but they have to aim really hard too. They have to hit like in a 7 foot radius around their target or else they'll miss.
And then that launcher is so useless for bosses that can kill you because you have that low 600 health and tons of rare armor that conveniently increases your S-Def a ton while also adding on to the massive R-Def. Because the launcher is so useless, you have to resort to using an AR with weak bullet. Oh no, so terrible!!! It's so hard to be a Ranger.

[NoiseHERO]

I like how everyone keeps linking that one video of a player doing 9999 damage for their arguments.
.

I only brought it up in general because someone said ranger couldn't do 9999 damage on their own.

I'm not on either side of this "videogames taken too seriously" spawned argument.

[Metalsnake27]

I think all the classes are fine...

The only thing I could see being nerfed is weak bullet, but even that..... is not too bad...

[Geistritter]

Please speak for yourself.

I just did; that's what "I don't mind" means. The overall lack of people other than you complaining about it implies most other people don't mind, either.


I, at least, do not appreciate it when everyone MUST get one thing and one thing only because all other choices are vastly inferior. What is the point of even having the other choices if there's one or two that are just obviously better in every way?

And, frankly, that's your problem.


Well, yes, that's because Forces are intended to be the strongest AoE class. That much is abundantly obvious considering, y'know, all of their techs do AoE damage.

Doesn't change a thing considering that, as I mentioned, they do their area of effect damage faster than literally everyone else, which makes their single target damage catch up.


However, you didn't mention one thing - the fact that rafoie's AoE range is considerably smaller than the launcher's AoE range. That may change at higher tech levels, but right now, the launcher is the clear king of AoE.

No it isn't. Period. Plus, Launchers can't hit things behind you and have a massive windup.


And there you have it. The fire tree is just plain OP. No, really, it is. It's the only tree that gets a charge time reduction (50%!! WTF?!) in addition to charge pp recovery, and is a prime example of when an imbalance is just making everything else look bad. What do the other trees get that can compete? Hah! Good luck with that.

Never challenge me to prove you wrong; I'm very good at it.

Bolt PP Save is fantastic. The only thing that stops the constant barrage of death Forces deal is PP, and using less of it, and stacking more of it, means the barrage lasts a lot longer. Fire's biggest weakness is not only that it has to stop quickly, but often, and it has Flame Tech Charge to thank for that.

It's also worth mentioning that lightning techs are inherently slightly stronger than fire techs, and Tech Just Attack Advance never hurts, either, even though it's not a match for the power boosts Fire's tree gets, but it's not meant to be the mortar cannon fire is; it's more of a machine gun.

Ice is the only tree that doesn't have anything to compete over the long haul. Freeze Ignition is hilariously powerful, but it's highly situational, and Photon Flare is flat out terrible thanks to its bafflingly short duration. It's still enhanced by Forces overall strengths, and can still make the other classes feel bad about themselves, but it just doesn't do it as well as the other two.

Every tree is overpowered in the right hands, though, and that's a good thing; fire is just the best on the whole. Nobody's perfect, thus perfect game design doesn't exist, so something's going to be the strongest. You're seriously going to have to get over that.


See, solo is irrelevant. The game is not intended to be played solo. The fact that you can play it solo is just a convenience. It is, in every way that matters, an inferior experience and an inferior way to play.

Solo is the best way to find out a class' pure power compared to its peers. Your saying it doesn't matter because that's not how you think the game is meant to be played is inane. Besides, my friends and I primarily play solo or in very small groups, so it's highly relevant to us, and we're hardly the only people who could say the same. If you don't think that's how the game should be or is meant to be played, bear in mind that no one asked you.

And despite everything, whether a Ranger's damage is arguably enhanced by the damage everyone else does through Weak Shot, the fact remains that Forces have the potential to do substantially more damage than everyone else in every situation no matter the circumstances. If the Ranger didn't use Weak Shot, the Force would come out on top. If the Ranger used Weak Shot, the Force would come out on top. It's really simple.

That's all I have to comment on; most of the rest of your post was ranting, and I don't have any conversation topics within it that I haven't addressed elsewhere.

[Kanore]

they don't

[Garnet_Moon]

I had a Ranger bitch at me for playing baseball with mobs this morning during a Protection. Couple JA's, then swing my sword and send everything flying. He said he can't kill properly(IE: with a bazooka) that way and that if I don't stop he'll report me for ruining his gameplay experience...

I then followed him and made so many homeruns I lost count. He stopped replying to me though... I think he blisted me.

Never saw Weak bullet, either. Dunno what this whole issue with a nerf is. He sure wasn't giving me any insider info...

[Alenoir]

I had a Ranger bitch at me for playing baseball with mobs this morning during a Protection. Couple JA's, then swing my sword and send everything flying. He said he can't kill properly(IE: with a bazooka) that way and that if I don't stop he'll report me for ruining his gameplay experience...

Any PA that changes an enemy's location (like that sword PA that smacks an enemy to the floor) automatically cancels everyone else's target lock on them. It's pretty damn annoying when you're using a rifle.

...Don't know why the said ranger need to bitch about it when he's on a launcher, though. It shouldn't matter to him. =w=a

WB is also rifle only. If that dude was on a launcher the whole time, that's the reason.

[Garnet_Moon]

Any PA that changes an enemy's location (like that sword PA that smacks an enemy to the floor) automatically cancels everyone else's target lock on them. It's pretty damn annoying when you're using a rifle.

:D thanks for the info!

[Trickyg]

yes, they do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUaPy56J3D8

[gigawuts]

I love this whole "this is a multiplayer game ergo solo rangers can't be OP" thing.

Because ten of those rangers couldn't ever possibly outperform just one. Right? Right guys?

[Limbo_lag]

Any PA that changes an enemy's location (like that sword PA that smacks an enemy to the floor) automatically cancels everyone else's target lock on them. It's pretty damn annoying when you're using a rifle.

...Don't know why the said ranger need to bitch about it when he's on a launcher, though. It shouldn't matter to him. =w=a

WB is also rifle only. If that dude was on a launcher the whole time, that's the reason.

Should have used manual aiming :-P Its better against most enemies, plus you can maximise the effects of AoE/splash.

[Daiyousei]

Any PA that changes an enemy's location (like that sword PA that smacks an enemy to the floor) automatically cancels everyone else's target lock on them. It's pretty damn annoying when you're using a rifle.

...Don't know why the said ranger need to bitch about it when he's on a launcher, though. It shouldn't matter to him. =w=a

WB is also rifle only. If that dude was on a launcher the whole time, that's the reason.

Even when using rifle, if you play in TPS you can still keep on target. although harder, but it's always satisfying if you manage to hit with sneak shot while the enemy is getting thrown around.

[10011408V3.9]

Personally, the perceived issue with "Launcher > Rifle" is in the incentives involved in the choice. The nature of PSE Bursts meanst that slaughtering lots of weak mobs in a bursty, AoE fashion is far and away more rewarded than the more level damage and mobile focus of an Assault Rifle. From this PoV it's not hard to see why launchers are much more preferred as it stands as the content isn't particularly varied at this phase.

I would say there should be more varied ways of either bursting or getting rewards similar to PSE bursting with different methods that favor the assault rifle's strengths. That is the only way I can see it putting to rest that debate with some finality.

[Raxrenol]

Hooo boy, this topic has been steaming in my head for quite some time, and now the perfect thread to express my thoughts has surfaced. Brace yourselves, this is gonna be a long one.


Anyways, Rangers are honestly too good. The most consistent AOE damage weapon is at their disposal and wrecks all of the small mobs easily. And whatever it doesn't kill, it stuns

Exactly. Yes, rangers do need a nerf, they simply have too much damage, too much utility and their weapons are too exceedingly good for the 2 key scenarios in this game's gameplay.

Launchers devastate any form of area clearing grind or code farming quest. Humongous AOE, divine launcher does absolutely obscene damage, if PP runs low base launcher shots also have that same enormous AOE, run off Ratk, and have solid range (lol "rangers" durh).

Not having to move an inch while putting out ludicrous unmatched dps, that's Rangers.

Oh, well I suppose I forgot that occasional moment when an El Arda comes flying straight at you like one of your rockets. I guess you do need to use that awful side roll every once in a while. Must be a hard life for you guys.


I like how everyone keeps linking that one video of a player doing 9999 damage for their arguments.
Afterall, it's outdated. Rangers should be having an extra 120 damage through Tranmizers soul.

Lol icwutudidthar.

Assault Rifles, such an underpowered amount of damage compared to the Launcher, guess this is what a Force feels like when using Gunslash Ratk shots or Rod Satk based melee swings to regen PP huh? (Anyone bringing up Talis for PP regeneration should read the Item Rod vs Card (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198986) thread before expressing their opinion)

Oh wait, there's Weak Bullet! How could we forget about that! The best DPS boosting skill for solo AND group play, bar none, no other class even comes close. Stick a few points into it and you get a debuff that increases damage done by 3 times, for everyone! Sounds balanced to me, wait no it doesn't.

If you decide to put 10 points into weak bullet (like the guy in the JP video) which I honestly think is the way to go for the sickest amount of utility you can give to parties, and enhance your own solo play, you can keep weak bullet up 75% of the time on bosses (like snow banther/banshee). Some rangers feel 6 points is the best, I disagree.

So, let's compare what a Ranger brings to a boss hunting party compared to a Hunter or Force. A Force/Hunter brings 100% player based damage (their own). Hunters have no party buffs, so we'll leave them at that. Hunters can exceed a Force in terms of damage, because they're badass brutes like that, but the focus here is Ranger comparison so I won't go too deep into Hunters v Forces.

A Force can use Lvl 9 Shifta (that's the highest rank) on the party to give roughly 18% more Base damage (just counting base+skills+mag, weapons and units are not factored in), your weapons and units count for more than 50% of your primary Atk stat at Lvl 40 (if you have decent ones) so Shifta only gives 18% / 2 = 9% of your TOTAL damage at most. And it has this clumsy mechanic of requiring the recipient to sit in a stupid AoE for it to tick 4 times for maximum duration. With fights being hectic and players generally dodging all over the place, needless to say Shifta will not have 100% uptime. This grants a Force at most 9% x 3 supportive damage to the party if Shifta is constantly refreshed (it won't be), that's 27%, for a total of 127% damage contributed by the Force.

A Ranger will bring 100% of their own damage, +200% additional damage for each party member for 75% of the time against bosses. That's 600% x 75% = 450% on top of their regular damage, for a whopping 550%. Now before Rangers start screaming out "Hey! You can't shoot to regen PP with Weak Bullet shots loaded!" Well, you're still doing enhanced sneak shooter damage (for up to >9000! lol jk actually not really jk), but let's say we cut out your portion of the damage all together, that's 550% - 100% = 450%. Oh look, it's still more than Hunters and Forces by a landslide.

So, if you're the sole ranger of your regular boss farming group, enjoy your coveted position as Most Valuable Player, and the best part is, you didn't have to work any harder than anyone else to attain it! :wacko:

If your group doesn't have a ranger, you automatically have an enormous disadvantage compared to one which does. If your group has two, you get 100% Weak Bullet uptime (with decent basic communication). If you have more than two, the additional Rangers are still party members who contribute as much damage as a Force or Hunter. This vast discrepancy makes Rangers almost mandatory, and no class should be mandatory.


And then that launcher is so useless for bosses that can kill you because you have that low 600 health and tons of rare armor that conveniently increases your S-Def a ton while also adding on to the massive R-Def.

This. Rangers already have more base HP than Forces, add on the fact that you can, if you so desire, invest points into Rdef (29 to 47 points minimum, depending on your race/gender) and get beastly 8* units that grant 55 HP, 1 PP each and sickeningly high defensive stats when grinded to +10. This outclasses Epsilon Stamina Sub Units (which Rangers can wear naturally btw due to their Skill Trees spoon feeding 28 Ability points at minimum, Forces need to invest 13-20 Ability into their mag to wear those).

And then you might say, well if we invest points into Rdef we don't get amazing Ratk do we! Well no, it wouldn't be as optimal for damage, but you have options. Maybe if you hate your godawful dive roll so much you can turn yourself into a bona fide RANGED TANK FUFUFU. Additionally, Weak Bullet doesn't give a damn what your Ratk is, it's going to multiply your party damage, and your own damage, regardless of what you say about its mother.


Force nerf lock on also, you can manual aim rafoie etc... Maybe limit how it locks on, locking onto a part and then stay away from the boss rest of fight or until you need to lock onto a new spot is pretty cheap.

Forces already do far far less damage than Rangers, both in personal and contributive damage for a group. Hunters can go toe to toe with Forces, and sometimes exceed Force damage with skill, this is fine. Unless you give Forces a way to put out comparative damage, nerfing the small perks they have would be asinine.

Adding on to that, Rangers can buy every buff a Force provides, Shifta potions, Deband potions, Resta potions (trimates lol), Sol Atomizers, etc. Can Hunters or Forces buy Weak Bullet? If you answered no, you'd be right.

In conclusion, Rangers in the current state of the game are the most overpowered class. They are the outliers that's trivializing already trivial content and peeing in the pool for everyone else. Before you say this isn't a competitive game, yes, it isn't, but the gap is too wide and there is still Interrupt Ranking and general meseta/rare farming. All this imbalance primarily spawns off how ridiculously good Weak Bullet is, with Launcher's amazing consistent AoE as a bonus. Will this change in the future? Who's to say, MMO balance has never been described as "stable". So enjoy your crutches while they last Rangers, but try not to get too dependent.

tl;dr Do rangers really need a nerf? Yes.


they don't

get out

[Daiyousei]

I wouldn't mind a nerf if it doesn't make rifle damage more suckier, I can't even get my PB to charge up fast and sometimes not at all, unless I deliberately get hit on purpose, and I do go up close, I just love the shotgun PA, and other PAs and regular shots work best for me up close as it doesn't spread as much closer.

It's bad enough that my hunter and force buddies have higher damage output than me without weak bullet.

[DemonMike]

Just to chip in a little further.

I think people may be being a little too harsh on the ranger class and most of these suggestions on what to nerf would eventually completely underpower the class.

What I do agree with:
Weak Bullet should not stack when fired at the enemies base weakpoint
Launcher damage should go down(or have reduced range), rifle base damage goes up

Rangers have arguable the worst dodge in the game, a significant amount of dud PA's and currently (though this will change in the future), a good support role to fulfill thanks to the lack of debuff techs available to forces. Rangers do need some slight tinkering, but not a full blown nerf like some people are suggesting.

On a similar topic, I'd like to tap on the 'must have' issue regarding skill trees some people were talking about earlier. Though in principle I do agree with the poster that said there shouldn't be 'must haves' for every player so there's an incentive to diversify their characters, the unfortunate reality is new skill trees currently cost over $6, so 'must have' class skills are to be expected as people try to maximise their class efficiency without spending.

[Kondibon]

What I do agree with:
Weak Bullet should not stack when fired at the enemies base weakpoint
Launcher damage should go down(or have reduced range), rifle base damage goes up

Rangers have arguable the worst dodge in the game, a significant amount of dud PA's and currently (though this will change in the future), a good support role to fulfill thanks to the lack of debuff techs available to forces. Rangers do need some slight tinkering, but not a full blown nerf like some people are suggesting.


This is a very nice way to put it.

[Hentai_Kittie]

Doesn't change a thing considering that, as I mentioned, they do their area of effect damage faster than literally everyone else, which makes their single target damage catch up.

They do AOE damage faster only with the fire tree for the glory of ablout 5 seconds for 5-8 consecutive volleys (assuming they have Flame tech S charge and Charge pp revival). Otherwise it's un-noticably (not) faster! AND for only 4-6 volleys (4 with Gizonde which is the only other aoe spell that you can use easily at any range. 4-6 with anything else). After that your going to have to decide how your going to get your pp back.

Launchers on the other hand, the AOE volley never ends. So isn't it fair that the launcher fires slower? Burst damage vs continues damage....




No it isn't. Period. Plus, Launchers can't hit things behind you and have a massive windup.

How did that go from "rafoie's AOE is considerably smaller" to "launchers can't hit anything behind you". Only Gizonde can hit behind you (only AFTER hitting something in front of you first), and Gifoie / gibarta / gigrants hits around you, and not anywhere specific UNLESS using a talis.



Never challenge me to prove you wrong; I'm very good at it.

I wish you didn't say this because you basically proved him right...


Bolt PP Save is fantastic. The only thing that stops the constant barrage of death Forces deal is PP, and using less of it, and stacking more of it, means the barrage lasts a lot longer. Fire's biggest weakness is not only that it has to stop quickly, but often, and it has Flame Tech Charge to thank for that.

Bolt pp save is manageble, but not perticurly good. what it does is help you cast for 3 times as long but limits you in more ways. Zonde is really the only skill that benifits, but zonde in itself is useless and outclassed by every other tech (except for razonde) in any department. Your not going to be using Razonde in any way, so i don't even need to say anything about that. Your most useful attack is going to be Gizonde, which will cost 4pp less then Rafoie..... that's not much of a benifit to me. What it does is basically let you have ok constant single target dps. Some people may like it, but i personally think using the lightining tree by itself isn't good.


It's also worth mentioning that lightning techs are inherently slightly stronger than fire techs, and Tech Just Attack Advance never hurts, either, even though it's not a match for the power boosts Fire's tree gets, but it's not meant to be the mortar cannon fire is; it's more of a machine gun.

The only thing worth getting on the lightining tree is Bolt pp save. Anything else and your just wasting sp to be slightly less mediocre. Lightining is not good in close combat. normal tech advance with JA tech advance makes JA with techs still not worth it. It must be said just how useless uncharged techs are.



Ice is the only tree that doesn't have anything to compete over the long haul. Freeze Ignition is hilariously powerful, but it's highly situational, and Photon Flare is flat out terrible thanks to its bafflingly short duration. It's still enhanced by Forces overall strengths, and can still make the other classes feel bad about themselves, but it just doesn't do it as well as the other two.

Freeze ignition is great if your solo. It is really really powerful. But if anyone else is fighting with you, It's useless. Photon Flare is good, but like you said it doesn't last long enough, cuts your hp alot, cooldown is far too long, and doesn't do much for basically going out of your way just to get it. Ice makes up for itself by having good techs all around. "flinch locking" enemies with (gibarta / Rabarta) make it great for close combat or keeping eneimes in one place. Sniping from long distances wth regular barta is great too. Freezing enemies is one of the best status effects too.



Every tree is overpowered in the right hands, though, and that's a good thing; fire is just the best on the whole. Nobody's perfect, thus perfect game design doesn't exist, so something's going to be the strongest. You're seriously going to have to get over that.

Ice and lightining skill trees are vastly inferior to fire. You basically admitted it yourself. As a force user with 3 different forces, I can say that fire has the best tree. Though Ice and fire have the most useful techs


And despite everything, whether a Ranger's damage is arguably enhanced by the damage everyone else does through Weak Shot, the fact remains that Forces have the potential to do substantially more damage than everyone else in every situation no matter the circumstances. If the Ranger didn't use Weak Shot, the Force would come out on top. If the Ranger used Weak Shot, the Force would come out on top. It's really simple.

Forces would only come out on top if there are large groups of enemies. They are the AOE masters afterall. Otherwise hunters and Forces do comparable damage differing in certain situations especially considering how badly force's have to rely on the small amount of pp that they have since the actual damaging attacks they have depend on it. So no, forces would not be any type of clear winner. Weak shot is still the undisputed winner which only the ranger has.

Just to say. Forces do burst damage better then anyone else. Photon Flare + charge pp revival + Shifta + Photon blast pp recharge + tech charge advance + Flame tech charge + Rafoie does do awesome damage, but you will almost never be able to set that up easily. And it's still mostly reliant on the fire tree.


To the person that mentioned "must haves" (DemonMike). I can say that "charge pp revival" on the force's fire tree is a must have for any force AND should be the first thing you get no matter what you do. It makes managing any tech (not just fire) in dire situations much more managable. It's sad that it takes 11SP to get, but i feel that putting that 11 sp anywhere else would do more harm then good. But from there you may as well get do something else in the fire tree since your already invested heavily in it.....

ON TOPIC:
Weak shot should be the only thing nerfed. It's obviously needed for rangers, but i don't think it should stack on weak points and multiply damage the way it does. If it must stack, weaken it. If it doesn't then i think that in itself is the only change that should happen.

[Macman]

People who think Assault Rifles are underpowered really need to learn how to aim with Sneak Shot. That does more damage than Divine Launcher could ever hope to achieve.

[MelancholyWitch]

This is too much people thinking and saying Rangers are OP who have never even played ranger, umm I saw the OP say somewhere in the first few posts that rangers can just keep shooting,


Could you eleborate further on that? Take in mind every magic requires PP in comparison to where a ranger can just shoot endlessly

um ROFL!??! when you use a weak bullet, it is used from your normal attacks in other words you can't regen your PP until your last weak bullet (only by standing there doing nothing can you regen your pp...), so you get 3 shots of sneak shot in and then have to wait for your PP, how is that endlessly shooting? I'm utterly confused as to why something with a huge delay needs a nerf, we're still in hard mode, if bosses are being killed in less than a minute in ultimate mode then the nerf bat needs to take a few swings but as of now it is perfectly fine Rangers support more than anyone in this game currently considering Shifta/Deband isn't that great compared to using weak bullet on breakables in case you didn't realize YOU also benefit from weak bullet.

[Xaeris]

I think some of you aren't quite understanding the big complaint with Weak Bullet. It's not a matter of Rangers being more powerful than the other two classes (or even whether or not that's even true), but about an item in their toolset being ridiculously more powerful than the content available. If we had DPS meters and the Rangers came out on top every time? Fft, fine, whatever, it's a co-op game.

The problem comes in when a boss monsters shows up on the field, goes "rawr" and barely has a chance to put up a fight before it drops its loot. It's a little amusing, but I'd get considerably more amusement out an actual fight. Take Ragu nee-chan, for instance. In an average multi party (the only place I'll get to see her, since, hey, who finishes missions anymore, right?), she'll get to stay up for maybe 40, 50 seconds if you have a Ranger who isn't mouth breather in the area. She'll spend 30 or 40 of those seconds nursing a broken leg because of that same Ranger.

While I suppose the following is an opinion, that's not fun.


I'm utterly confused as to why something with a huge delay needs a nerf, we're still in hard mode, if bosses are being killed in less than a minute in ultimate mode then the nerf bat needs to take a few swings but as of now it is perfectly fine Rangers support more than anyone in this game currently considering Shifta/Deband isn't that great compared to using weak bullet on breakables in case you didn't realize YOU also benefit from weak bullet.

The content is heavily gated. I don't think Ultimate was even on the road map. I should not have to wait months and months to get balanced gameplay. And that aside, it doesn't matter how much HP bosses in Ultimate have. The problem is the damage multiplier of Weak Bullet. A party with Weak Bullet is doing vastly more damage than a party without. So, if an Ultimate boss lives for an appreciable amount of time against the former party, than the latter party is just going to have a miserable experience. You can't really balance around a game changer like that.

[MelancholyWitch]

weak bullet doesn't make that considerable amount of change you still aren't realizing the cooldown it has and how short it actually lasts, I've seen groups without a single ranger in it kill bosses in under a minute too, you just have to know how to use your PA's/abilities wisely and go for breakables instead of just facerolling on keyboard, for example seeing people use strong AOE on bosses (yes I know hunter doesn't have much non aoe but that's besides the point, it's till doable without a ranger in that time limit.) That's just how the content is right now, things are easy I've grouped without rangers and had a breeze.

[Xaeris]

I main a Ranger. I know exactly how long the target lasts compared to the cooldown. It lasts plenty long enough for its purpose.

If you've seen groups without a Ranger down a boss in under a minute, than that same group, with one member exchanged for Weak Bullet, would have out and out evaporated it. You can't l2p a 4x damage modifier. That's just math.

[Zyrusticae]

Yes, you can kill bosses under a minute with a good group.

You can also kill those bosses in seconds with a good group + weak bullet.

[evrythngivknwn]

I think the rocket launcher is too faceroll. I 2 shot everything it seems like.

[jOhMG]

I think the rocket launcher is too faceroll. I 2 shot everything it seems like.

That's just the game. I main a FOrce and I 1 or 2 shot just about every mob other then bosses.

My feeling on the original topic: The game is pretty easy atm and honestly no class needs a nerf. You aren't exactly competing against one another anyway so 100% perfect balance isn't needed anyway.

[Sp-24]

Sega has released some content that can be considered somewhat challenging, though - the kitties and Time Attack. For all we know, things may get harder in the future. When one day, you see something like "TA ranking no HU/FO" in a party description, you'll know that that there is a competition.

[MelancholyWitch]

it's just extra what does it matter ? I've seen groups take the same amount of time with/without weak bullet on bosses it's just about play style, there are some that take more time on bosses despite having weak bullet that's just how it works, bosses with more breakables will be the same, you're basically stating this killing speed for bosses such as Ragne/Vol Dragon I hope because something like Big Vader...Weak bullet doesn't make much of a difference, and I imagine they will release bosses in the future that have that many breakables to where 4 weak bullets is insignificant.\

Either way it's a moot point if it needed a nerf Sega would of done something or said something about it already considering we are a few weeks in the game after release and already in hard mode.

[SaiKo]

Actually, thinking about it, I'm not really too keen on any of the subpallete/cooldown-based abilities. The whole concept just don't feel like it meshes well with the combat style to me, so if they would remove (or reimagine) all of those, then I could stand for sacrificing the current weak bullet.

[Lostbob117]

Did you guys not read my post?


No, there is no reason to explain but, if they are nerfed they will be weaker than other classes. Hunters can do a lot of dps, I don't know about forces though.

[Zyrusticae]

Yes, I read it, that is why I suggested that rifle normal damage get buffed if weak bullet gets fixed (not nerfed, FIXED, it is absolutely borked atm).

Not like rangers are really needy for other uses since they have uber launchers...

[Xaeris]

I'm not sure what argument you're trying to substantiate, saying that you've seen groups with and without Weak Bullet down bosses in similar amounts of time. I'm sure you have, but it doesn't prove, or even really say, anything. We're talking about Weak Bullet's overpowered synergy, not whether there are less than ideal players playing this game. Play style and math are not mutually exclusive.

Vader is one boss out of four. Weak Bullet trivializes the other three (eh, Snow twins is actually still a decent fight with Weak Bullet), and part of the reason that Vader isn't trivialized by Weak Bullet is because it's already trivial. Most of his breakables have a pittance of HP. And still, save Weak Bullet for the few pieces that actually do have some HP and you still get a ridiculous performance boost from it.

[Sp-24]

No, there is no reason to explain but, if they are nerfed they will be weaker than other classes. Hunters can do a lot of dps, I don't know about forces though.

That's only because we know that Sega can't balance for s***. People still have faith that non-Japanese PSO2 version will not be a disaster, though, so why not believe that making Weak Bullet not deal over 2.5 damage for 18 seconds (that's 54 seconds out of its 98 seconds cooldown at level 6) will automatically ruin Rangers?

[MelancholyWitch]

no need to state the obvious about Vader if you actually read the post you'd see that I"m mentioning him as a base for future bosses that would be more difficult with loads of breakables making weak bullet not as useful. Math has nothing to do with it when you hit a random part of the boss and use up the weak bullet now does it?

[Sp-24]

no need to state the obvious about Vader if you actually read the post you'd see that I"m mentioning him as a base for future bosses that would be more difficult with loads of breakables making weak bullet not as useful. Math has nothing to do with it when you hit a random part of the boss and use up the weak bullet now does it?

That's implying that the Ranger is question is rolling his face on a keyboard. We are mainly discussing the proper usage of WB, though. Vader, for example, has a very obvious weak point. WB it, and it goes down way faster that it would otherwise.

[Patmaster]

A group of rangers with launchers firing all day long is just annoying!

[Xaeris]

3 out of 4 bosses have no more than a small handful of breakables. Include minibosses, and that jumps to 7 out of 8. It's not at all reasonable to assume that the trend in the future will be for bosses to have the amount of targets that Vader will have.

Math has not been your ally this morning.

[Macman]

A group of rangers with launchers firing all day long is just annoying!
I only ever spam my launcher during bursts, protection codes, and darkers because it's light element. :-P

[MelancholyWitch]

That's implying that the Ranger is question is rolling his face on a keyboard. We are mainly discussing the proper usage of WB, though. Vader, for example, has a very obvious weak point. WB it, and it goes down way faster that it would otherwise.

I've been playing my other classes more lately, Vader included in that and haven't really noticed a difference, it's a pointless argument there's no need to convince you, Sega knows it's not OP, otherwise it would have been fixed.

[Zyrusticae]

As Hentai_Kittie (nice name btw) covered the rest admirably, I'm just gonna touch on a few points...


I just did; that's what "I don't mind" means. The overall lack of people other than you complaining about it implies most other people don't mind, either.
I just don't... seriously, how do you manage to contradict yourself within one sentence? You're still speaking for others when you're making that inference. Let them speak for themselves if they care to, otherwise they are immaterial.

And for that matter, appealing to popularity is not going to get you very far, because...

And, frankly, that's your problem.
No, it's a fundamental design problem. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_(game_design)) Seriously, I don't understand how this is even debatable. It's not an issue of "do I care?", it's an issue of "this is poor design", as simple as that.


Every tree is overpowered in the right hands, though, and that's a good thing; fire is just the best on the whole. Nobody's perfect, thus perfect game design doesn't exist, so something's going to be the strongest. You're seriously going to have to get over that.
This is disturbingly defeatist. I refuse to simply "get over that" (as if it's something I need to get over). I am absolutely certain that they can improve the balance, even if only marginally so. At the very least, I should have incentives to go through the lightning tree or the ice tree not just because I want the element-specific bonuses. Right now, you go the fire tree because Charge PP revival is an absolute must-have no matter what element you're going for. Photon Charge is under-powered, and the lightning tree has nothing. Literally nothing. That would be very easy to fix, even if you believe it is not worth the effort (but it is for them, because it encourages people to buy new skill trees).



[spoiler-box]Solo is the best way to find out a class' pure power compared to its peers. Your saying it doesn't matter because that's not how you think the game is meant to be played is inane. Besides, my friends and I primarily play solo or in very small groups, so it's highly relevant to us, and we're hardly the only people who could say the same. If you don't think that's how the game should be or is meant to be played, bear in mind that no one asked you.

And despite everything, whether a Ranger's damage is arguably enhanced by the damage everyone else does through Weak Shot, the fact remains that Forces have the potential to do substantially more damage than everyone else in every situation no matter the circumstances. If the Ranger didn't use Weak Shot, the Force would come out on top. If the Ranger used Weak Shot, the Force would come out on top. It's really simple.[/spoiler-box]
Talk about missing the point.

What you seem to be missing out on is that anything that is intended to support the team works best when there is a team to support. For example, any traditional RPG with a healer class does not expect that healer to be able to hold its own in terms of damage output; that class acts specifically as a force multiplier, increasing the effectiveness of the entire team in exchange for being less-than-perfect when working alone.

A force can heal and can increase damage and defenses (marginally, at that), but that's it as far as its support bonuses go. The ranger can make the boss go down in mere seconds. A force will never be able to do that, ever. Period. End of discussion. The fact that you can't do the same thing solo does not mean that rangers are suddenly balanced.

Raxrenol covers it quite nicely:


Assault Rifles, such an underpowered amount of damage compared to the Launcher, guess this is what a Force feels like when using Gunslash Ratk shots or Rod Satk based melee swings to regen PP huh? (Anyone bringing up Talis for PP regeneration should read the Item Rod vs Card (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198986) thread before expressing their opinion)

Oh wait, there's Weak Bullet! How could we forget about that! The best DPS boosting skill for solo AND group play, bar none, no other class even comes close. Stick a few points into it and you get a debuff that increases damage done by 3 times, for everyone! Sounds balanced to me, wait no it doesn't.

If you decide to put 10 points into weak bullet (like the guy in the JP video) which I honestly think is the way to go for the sickest amount of utility you can give to parties, and enhance your own solo play, you can keep weak bullet up 75% of the time on bosses (like snow banther/banshee). Some rangers feel 6 points is the best, I disagree.

So, let's compare what a Ranger brings to a boss hunting party compared to a Hunter or Force. A Force/Hunter brings 100% player based damage (their own). Hunters have no party buffs, so we'll leave them at that. Hunters can exceed a Force in terms of damage, because they're badass brutes like that, but the focus here is Ranger comparison so I won't go too deep into Hunters v Forces.

A Force can use Lvl 9 Shifta (that's the highest rank) on the party to give roughly 18% more Base damage (just counting base+skills+mag, weapons and units are not factored in), your weapons and units count for more than 50% of your primary Atk stat at Lvl 40 (if you have decent ones) so Shifta only gives 18% / 2 = 9% of your TOTAL damage at most. And it has this clumsy mechanic of requiring the recipient to sit in a stupid AoE for it to tick 4 times for maximum duration. With fights being hectic and players generally dodging all over the place, needless to say Shifta will not have 100% uptime. This grants a Force at most 9% x 3 supportive damage to the party if Shifta is constantly refreshed (it won't be), that's 27%, for a total of 127% damage contributed by the Force.

A Ranger will bring 100% of their own damage, +200% additional damage for each party member for 75% of the time against bosses. That's 600% x 75% = 450% on top of their regular damage, for a whopping 550%. Now before Rangers start screaming out "Hey! You can't shoot to regen PP with Weak Bullet shots loaded!" Well, you're still doing enhanced sneak shooter damage (for up to >9000! lol jk actually not really jk), but let's say we cut out your portion of the damage all together, that's 550% - 100% = 450%. Oh look, it's still more than Hunters and Forces by a landslide.

So, if you're the sole ranger of your regular boss farming group, enjoy your coveted position as Most Valuable Player, and the best part is, you didn't have to work any harder than anyone else to attain it! :wacko:





That's all I have to comment on; most of the rest of your post was ranting, and I don't have any conversation topics within it that I haven't addressed elsewhere.Well, if this is your idea of "addressing" something, I am fortunately not missing out on anything. How unfortunate it is that you are a very obvious victim of the dunning-kruger effect. Recognize that you are far from infallible, as I have learned to do at least part of the time, and things may turn out better for you.

[MelancholyWitch]

I really don't care anymore for the argument as it looks weak bullet has no reason to get nerfed not much else to say to it, we haven't reached end game and the content is SUPPOSE to be easy right now seeing as we're barely a month after release.

[Heat Haze]

Do note, this is an observatory opinion as I have not played the class; and the points below are subject to change when I eventually try out Ranger.

No issues with assault rifle as far as I'm concerned.

Launchers are in the grey area for me, they're not my main source of issue. They hit hard, and have a large hit radius. One of the two should be toned down a bit; but it isn't severe as..

Weak Bullet. Shouldn't have to say much more there. It should only serve to make any area on an enemy a weak spot, not to indiscriminately multiply damage by 3x anywhere (You know, since no one ever uses Weak Bullet on anything but boss weak spots boosting damage hilariously high).

Most Rangers I've spoken to in-game have also said Weak Bullet is OP, and too good. However, if Weak Bullet were to be nerfed, it would make some people mad since they've invested SP in that broken monstrosity of a skill; which is why I assume some people would insist it isn't OP. Either way, it sounds like a lose situation no matter what Sega does to the skill (Or a win situation, if you like game imbalance). Sega touches Weak Bullet, Rangers get shafted by investing SP into something that may be not as good. Sega leaves it alone, well, nothing happens but it gives off the impression they don't care too much about game balance and leaves Ranger to be the best, go to, utility class.

What should be done, well. I frankly don't know. Maybe my opinion will change once I level Ranger, but I doubt it'll change much regarding my thoughts on Weak Bullet.

[BIG OLAF]

I keep forgetting that no one can hear tone or sarcastic emphasis over the internet. I need to stop trying to be snarky; people seldom get it when I'm mocking someone.

[MelancholyWitch]

I keep forgetting the immaturity of people you'd think would know better, who will generally just have nothing better to do with their time. 4 word posts ftw!

[Xaeris]

I really don't care anymore for the argument as it looks weak bullet has no reason to get nerfed not much else to say to it, we haven't reached end game and the content is SUPPOSE to be easy right now seeing as we're barely a month after release.

There's plenty more to say to it, seeing as, so far, you haven't made a good argument for Weak Bullet's continued existence as is. Why, pray tell, is content "supposed" to be easy? This isn't Ep I&II, where Ultimate was available from day 1 and the modes before them were just training exercises. This is the highest grade of content we'll have available for several months to come, so why shouldn't it provide some encounters of substance that don't conclude in under a minute?

Some advice: if your response involves an attack on your imagined perception of me, don't even bother. Seriously. If that's the best you've got, just cut your losses, go back to your guild or team or whatever and let them lick your wounded ego.

[Indignation Judgment]

From the soloist PoV, RA doesn't need any kind of nerf. Rafoie on the other hand needs all kinds of nerf.

[Zyrusticae]

From the soloist PoV, RA doesn't need any kind of nerf. Rafoie on the other hand needs all kinds of nerf.
No, the fire skill tree is just OP. Rafoie on its own is not very impressive at all (in fact, its AoE radius is considerably smaller than the launcher's!). No other skill tree gets access to something as powerful as a 50% charge speed boost(!!) + charge PP revival.

[MelancholyWitch]

Um? no I don't really care what you have to say it seems like you're the one who is annoyed here, I've said my share and it makes sense to me and others apparently just not to you, not caring what you have to say has nothing to do with my ego or any ego at all, just go back to your random posting of arguments that don't even make sense.

[Raxrenol]

I keep forgetting that no one can hear tone or sarcastic emphasis over the internet. I need to stop trying to be snarky; people seldom get it when I'm mocking someone.

If your post was meant as disapproval to Iroquis' personal attacks then I apologize and applaud it. To be fair, it did come off as more of a "fist bump" to his statement than one of mockery.


Most Rangers I've spoken to in-game have also said Weak Bullet is OP, and too good. However, if Weak Bullet were to be nerfed, it would make some people mad since they've invested SP in that broken monstrosity of a skill; which is why I assume some people would insist it isn't OP. Either way, it sounds like a lose situation no matter what Sega does to the skill (Or a win situation, if you like game imbalance). Sega touches Weak Bullet, Rangers get shafted by investing SP into something that may be not as good. Sega leaves it alone, well, nothing happens but it gives off the impression they don't care too much about game balance and leaves Ranger to be the best, go to, utility class.

This is anecdotal, but I too have a max level ranger and agree with this, as do some of my other friends. If you do want hard figures to back this up, look to my previous post (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2822611&postcount=114). The hard truth is many people are overly invested in their characters, and are either too afraid to lose this investment or see them through rose tinted goggles, adamantly denying any form of imbalance taking place. There is a simple solution to your stated problem though, any skill tree changes come with a full skill tree reset for said class. Sroblem Polved.


I keep forgetting the immaturity of people you'd think would know better, who will generally just have nothing better to do with their time. 4 word posts ftw!

Perhaps you should just step out right about now, that is, unless you have anything factual or substantial to contribute.


Um? no I don't really care what you have to say it seems like you're the one who is annoyed here, I've said my share and it makes sense to me and others apparently just not to you, not caring what you have to say has nothing to do with my ego or any ego at all, just go back to your random posting of arguments that don't even make sense.

This, is a most sublime sample of distilled irony.

[MelancholyWitch]

Actually I haven't attacked anyone personally, funny since I was the one who was first talked to in such a manner, I only reply not instigate so not exactly sure what personal attacks you refer to.

[Macman]

Man, why does everyone on here get so personal?

[Kondibon]

Man, why does everyone on here get so personal?Welcome to the internet.

[Macman]

Welcome to the internet.

Speak for yourself. This place has more bruised egos than any other community I frequent.

[Kondibon]

Speak for yourself. This place has more bruised egos than any other community I frequent.

Actually I'd have to agree. This whole thing has been repeating since it started because no one backreads. >:

[Heat Haze]

This is anecdotal, but I too have a max level ranger and agree with this, as do some of my other friends. If you do want hard figures to back this up, look to my previous post. The hard truth is many people are overly invested in their characters, and are either too afraid to lose this investment or see them through rose tinted goggles, adamantly denying any form of imbalance taking place. There is a simple solution to your stated problem though, any skill tree changes come with a full skill tree reset for said class. Sroblem Polved.
The problem would be solved in this case (assuming they handle Weak Bullet properly with respect to difficulty and such), but it just seems too good for something like that to be true (Skill Tree Reset, I mean.. that costs AC and doing this will probably cost Sega a little; but then again they did compensate AC purchasers for maintenance periods so.. who knows).


From the soloist PoV, RA doesn't need any kind of nerf. Rafoie on the other hand needs all kinds of nerf.
The Fire Skill Tree is pretty stupid, Rafoie on it's own doesn't do much. (Although the range of Rafoie is REDICULOUS. Yeah, that should be changed.)

[MelancholyWitch]

Man, why does everyone on here get so personal?

Not sure just look at the post count and the amount of words in their post and that shall answer your question, some people just post...for no reason, I don't even know either of these people but they seem hell bent on quoting my posts.

Anyways the original post on this thread was saying Rangers needing a nerf not weak bullet, and the answer is simple no they do not need a nerf, having to go a certain build to maximize your damage doesn't leave any room for utility.

[Xaeris]

Champions Online has a skill system similar to PSO2's. See, you learn skills for free, but unlearning them requires either a Retcon token (you pay real money for) or an obscene amount of the in game resource. Yet, the developers regularly give out free retcon tokens when they screw around with the powers.

Well, I'm sure Sega isn't using Cryptic as their model, but it does show that giving out free respecs can fit into the business model of a f2p game, so I don't think it's that far out there that Sega would give out free tree resets if they did choose to make substantial changes to skills.

[Raxrenol]

...and this thread is becoming a clusterfuck, anyway (surprise, surprise).

Balance threads, always a trolling rolling good time.


The Fire Skill Tree is pretty stupid, Rafoie on it's own doesn't do much. (Although the range of Rafoie is REDICULOUS. Yeah, that should be changed.)

Indeed, Rafoie is probably the best spell a force has at Lvl 40 with Flame Charge S is maxed, and the plenitude of fire weak mobs in the game doesn't hurt that either. Sure, along the way Gigrants seems far stronger but once you get up there you realize how painfully slow charging Gigrants is. Still, a Force's damage is only in-line with a Hunters (Hunters can do more, but have to get up close), varying slightly above and below it depending on fight and situation. It comes nowhere close to that of Rangers with Weak Bullet.

I'd say the Fire, Ice and Lightning trees need looking at. Ice needs a severe buff as it's the most clumsily put together tree with nothing in it that compares to Fire or Lightning. Lightning is half-decent and Fire is simply the go-to strongest. More diversity should be encouraged in the game if possible. A similar case can be said for Rangers with the ranged tree being the dominant choice, Weak Bullet, Weak Hit Advance and Standing Snipe are simply too good to pass up, while trap Rangers are rarer than my steak on a barbeque.

But until Rangers are brought in-line with the damage output of the other two classes, nerfs to Hunters or Forces would absolutely wreck them in comparison.

[SaiKo]

Thinking more on it, I think the reason I actually like weak bullet as much as I do is that it's the closest thing to the PSO special attacks/abilities we've got, IMO.

I loved playing a ranger in PSO because I could focus on proccing specials rather than just doing straightforward, raw damage with my standard attacks. Due to the lack of ATA and the way the affix system works here however, there's really no benefit to playing a ranger on that front (that I'm aware of).

So it could be fun to take Weak Bullet more in that direction, IMO. Turn it from a subpallete ability into a no-cost PA. Make it spammable, but cut it's activation rate, duration, and possibly its damage multiplier.

Actually, it'd be cool to see a lot more abilities along those lines. The action is too fast-paced for old specials like Demon's or Hell's to be all that relevant unfortunately (and I don't think anyone else is going to be keen on the idea of nerfing ALL classes to allow for them), but having them use the skill-trees or special affixes (or creating rare-specific PAs and/or abilities) to provide alternatives would be great.

[Hansha]

What I would like to see changed with Ranger:

- Heavily reduce Weak Bullet multiplier, but allow rangers to use their normal attacks.
- Make enemies not get flinched by Launcher or make launcher lose damage over far distances (that way they would need to be in harm's way for maximum damage.
- A slight buff to rifle damage.
- Faster traps

That sounds about good. Just increase R-Def on enemies for some future content, and then we have a balanced class. Same AOE damage, but more dangerous to use so you actually have to roll for once. Rifle would be more fun due to being able to use normal attack still. Make Divine Launcher flinch instead of launching in the air.

[Enforcer MKV]

Champions Online has a skill system similar to PSO2's. See, you learn skills for free, but unlearning them requires either a Retcon token (you pay real money for) or an obscene amount of the in game resource. Yet, the developers regularly give out free retcon tokens when they screw around with the powers.

Well, I'm sure Sega isn't using Cryptic as their model, but it does show that giving out free respecs can fit into the business model of a f2p game, so I don't think it's that far out there that Sega would give out free tree resets if they did choose to make substantial changes to skills.

See, I made reference to this as well when people were talking about skill trees - It's not so far fetched an idea. In fact, I think it's a really good idea, and I hope Sega mimics them if they do re balance skill trees.

Personally, I think Rangers are fine. I know people are going to take shots at me for saying that, but eh, whatever. The way I see it is as follows: Given the increased mobility and aggressiveness of Banther, Banshee, and the soon to be released Fang Banther (which is more or less a reskin, yes, I know.) as well as the huge amount of breakpoints on Varder, I do feel like we're going to be getting harder (and more importantly, more varied) bosses. And it's not like I even use weak bullet often. I only really use it on bosses, and even then, it's mostly on Banther's and Banshee's claws. That's the only time I ever feel threatened enough to really warrant it's use. The rest of the time I just support my team with AR fire. I don't even pull out my Launcher. The thing is just annoying to use. I dunno, really, I don't think this thread is going anywhere, excluding a downward spiral into petty bickering.

*shrugs* Just thought I'd throw my two cents in.

[jooozek]

Just increase R-Def on enemies for some future content, and then we have a balanced class.

Connect that with the healing robots from mines and you will get 10 dmg per bullet with rifles :bday:. Come on, rifles are underpowered aside of sneak shot and weak bullet, those need to be nerfed. You can feel doing no damage when you destroy the parts on Vader, you will poke the bottom ones for 30-40 damage with each bullet, meanwhile a force goes ahead and hits for 1000 with rafoie. Launcher radius shouldn't be tweaked, if you lower it then what will we get is a single targer assslow rifle. I agree that the damage could be tweaked a little but after playing force I don't feel like the launcher is really overpowered or anything. Launcher's PA are decently balanced, Divine Launcher takes an eternity to wind up and while winded up your camera control gets slowed down massively. Bumping up your sensivity won't do anything because the game limits how much you can turn over time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM3Fqx4FJjk&feature=player_embedded

[Hansha]

[SPOILER-BOX] http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18389823 [/SPOILER-BOX]

This Ranger beats Big Verderpder in only about 30 more secs......and it was boosted.

[jooozek]

No, he doesn't. Get your eyes checked.

[Daiyousei]

What I would like to see changed with Ranger:

- Heavily reduce Weak Bullet multiplier, but allow rangers to use their normal attacks.
- Make enemies not get flinched by Launcher or make launcher lose damage over far distances (that way they would need to be in harm's way for maximum damage.
- A slight buff to rifle damage.
- Faster traps

That sounds about good. Just increase R-Def on enemies for some future content, and then we have a balanced class. Same AOE damage, but more dangerous to use so you actually have to roll for once. Rifle would be more fun due to being able to use normal attack still. Make Divine Launcher flinch instead of launching in the air.

Good ideas, I like closer ranges, better accuracy for not so powerful rifle damage, Zero Distance just looks awesome, Diffuse shell, and less travel time for sneak shooter. I've never used divine launcher at all, it's just annoying trying to hit enemies while they're in the air.

[Hrith]

No, the fire skill tree is just OP. Rafoie on its own is not very impressive at all (in fact, its AoE radius is considerably smaller than the launcher's!). No other skill tree gets access to something as powerful as a 50% charge speed boost(!!) + charge PP revival.No, IJ is correct, techs - especially Rafoie - need to be nerfed.

I'm a caseal, worst race for force, and my mag has 0 T-ATK, my Rafoie still clears mobs in the blink of an eye. It's even the best boss killer once you manage to lock on to a weak spot.

The blast radius of Rafoie is smaller than Divine Launcher or Cluster Bullet, not than regular launcher shells (or not noticeably). Do not forget that techs will get bigger as they level up.


I cannot disagree Weak Bullet is very powerful, but why would a skill that benefits everyone in the party need a nerf?
I main a ranger, I rarely use Weak Bullet simply because shit - including some bosses - dies too fast to make a difference.
What needs to be changed in the poor gameplay design is that enemies' HP need to scale to the number of people in the party, especially MPAs.

Nerfing Weak Bullet would make rangers pointless, and then they'd have the lowest DPS in any situation, because without that skill, hunters and forces are way above rangers in the DPS department.

[Hansha]

No, he doesn't. Get your eyes checked.

RA: 0:18 - 8:36 = 8:18
FO: 0:11 - 7:51 = 7:40

My bad, my math was off by a massive 8 sec. And I guess Big Verderpder being boosted in the RA video counts for nothing.

[gigawuts]

While we're at it, nerf Aero, Speed Rain, Thrillsplode, and the unarmed shift dodge.

Hell, lets just nerf everything.

Thank you, this is why we can't just clamor to nerf everything, even if it IS OP.

Just like PSO1, ranger is miles better than hunter in early content. It's later on where hunter surpassed ranger. Why would that be at all bad to do again? Why does it need to be flatly nerfed?

The effective range of launchers could use a nerf, yeah, that's basically my entire gripe. Everything else is really not a big deal.

I do wish they'd give gunslashes specializations for each class, weak bullet and gears and such.

[ScottyMango]

I agree. I think that weak bullet maybe might need a nerf, but at the same time it works as an advantage to all classes, not just the ranger.

PSO being a team-based game and all.

[NoiseHERO]

If there were skills and gears pertaining to gunslash, I'd probably chuck my wired-lance out the window...

[Macman]

Gunslash just needs more range. It has about the same attack range as fighting unarmed. That's just silly.

[gigawuts]

The only issue I really see with weak bullet is that it can be used as a personal buff.

And honestly? So what. It has its limitations. So what if the ranger can nail over 10k damage many times in a row. (Do not cry that it's expensive, money is only a balancing factor in the very short term where you can buy one and only one upgraded weapon).

This is easily resolved with R-Def and a slight rework of weak bullet mechanics. Someone else suggested weak bullet doesn't affect weak spots. That'd work. I'd like to see weak bullet be slightly less beneficial to the applier than the rest of the team (Buffing the rest of the team will simply not work - ever seen ragne die in less than 20 seconds? I have. Weak bullet, weak bullet everywhere.)

And if a weak bullet nerf never happens, I really won't feel too wounded. I'm a hunter after all.

Oh right, guard stance should buff r-def and hunter shouls get far better r-def units tyvm

edit: After playing a solid week or so with gunslash, I'm in freaking love with the thing. As a hunter. It's fantastic. With step attack its range is nothing to sneeze at, and combining certain PA's can also close gaps (tri attack, is that what it's called? You can also do a backwards thrillsplosion and turn around right when you chuck it out.) It's an excellent weapon class, it just needs to benefit from specialization as much as the other weapons. When compared toe to toe, a gunslash will outperform a sword on a sword dps build in the short term due to not needing to fill gear to deal good damage. Given a gear and weak bullet (weak bullet only being spent in gun mode - melee mode could be switched to and used just fine without wasting weak bullets) I imagine great things happening with it.

[Aewyn]

So basically most people in this thread has come to agree that "Weak bullet need nerf"

so yes, we probably can expect that in the first coming big system patch with the new classes :pI don't think it needs a very big nerf because we are not nearly in line with Hunter and Force damage. Sure Launchers do great damage but in a competent party they will all be dead by the time you launch one round. You'll be lucky to hit the enemies once. Initial damage by Rangers is low, for Forces and Hunters it is high.

Personally I'd like to see Rangers get a 5-10% boost in SATK, Weak Bullet effectiveness reduced 15%, and enemy HP increased by 30%.

As for Weak Bullet not affecting weak spots... that seems absurd to me. An enemy has a weak spot, you have a bullet that creates weaknesses. How are these two things not a mix for massive damage potential? I think that is a bad solution, you'd essentially have to reduce Weak Bullet's effectiveness by 100% on weak spots meaning you wasted a bullet even though you hit them in the face and turned it into jelly. I don't think that is a good solution at all. Maybe have it reduce damage resistance by 75% instead of dropping it to zero?


Gunslash just needs more range. It has about the same attack range as fighting unarmed. That's just silly.Wat. It fires bullets that do 300+ damage on enemy weakspots and has an excellent PA in Thrillsplode that puts out high damage to multiple targets very quickly. o_o

[Garnet_Moon]

You guys know this is a TEAM-BASED game, right? People who cry NERF NERF NERF usually have that stupid as hell solo mmo mentality. Can you solo? Yes. Does it matter that X class can do it faster than Y and Z class? Not to me it doesn't.

A flinched mob is no threat to the party, and weak bullet makes bosses die(which is what we all want when they spawn).

[Aewyn]

Rangers are the easiest to solo with, that much is sure. Forces are pretty easy too.

[gigawuts]

I don't think it needs a very big nerf because we are not nearly in line with Hunter and Force damage. Sure Launchers do great damage but in a competent party they will all be dead by the time you launch one round. You'll be lucky to hit the enemies once. Initial damage by Rangers is low, for Forces and Hunters it is high.

Personally I'd like to see Rangers get a 5-10% boost in SATK, Weak Bullet effectiveness reduced 15%, and enemy HP increased by 30%.

They'll be dead because of the other rangers firing their launchers.

If you think initial damage by rangers is low you are very very very bad at playing ranger. Initial damage for hunters being higher than rangers is a bad joke. Hunters need to, you know, run up to an enemy. Rangers plainly don't.

The thing with rangers is, next to hunters - on paper - rangers have slightly worse damage output but benefit in burst damage with weak bullet + PA's as well as having the long range capabilities to apply this damage in a wider area.

In REALITY, since things with enough health that they die before the hunter can get to an enemy being launchered to death, this means hunters get shafted. Only when things have boatloads of health - such as in a boss fight - does this change. Then the issue for hunters is keeping in range and evading attacks. All these rangers crying about the banshee/bantha fight think they hav eit rough, now try needing to get in gunslash range to be effective. Oh no, he hit you at midrange? Now try having to approach him the whole time he's jumping around, while simultaneously avoiding it. Hunters then have to deal with shorter range, higher damage attacks while in their own optimal range. Before you bring up sonic arrow, please explain to me how this is at all different from weak bullet + 10k sneak shots, what with the not being able to refill PP due to being out of range. Besides having far less damage, I mean.

Assuming you're a fantastic dodger and blocker you won't be knocked around too much, nor will you need to heal often. This is often the case for myself and many hunters I've met - sink or swim (or change classes). Even still, rangers outperform us due to the class nuances such as gears. Yes, sure, sword can easily outdamage ranger weapons...if we keep the gear bar filled (Partisan gear only increases range, wired lance gear also requires you deal damage to refill). Keeping gears full only becomes really possible with either tons of small enemies or a boss we can pound on for good periods of time. We need to work for our bonus. Rangers do not, however. Their bonus is merely a skill on a cooldown, like a fury stance without the defense penalty. I sure would like it if fury stance was not just stronger, but instead of limiting defense merely restricted me from using my normal attacks.

One more thing - if I'm not mistaken, the roll every ranger cries about has more invulnerability frames than the step hunters have. Oh, you can't spam it? Spam doesn't do a fucking thing against a single high damage attack.

None of this is actually a problem, I'm just tired of awful rangers whinging like little four year olds that little johnny over there does more damage after he's busted his ass while most of the resident rangers lazily hold m1 without even remembering just attacks exist.

[Zyrusticae]

Haha, typical bullshit responses in this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, I just want to see other ranger skills become as desirable as Weak Bullet. Don't care if that's from a WB nerf or a buff on all other abilities. How many rangers are you ever going to see who don't put a single point into Weak Bullet? I am very curious about this.

Annnd of course, someone will justify that sort of poor design as "it's smart decision-making!" Um, well, obviously. That doesn't mean it's not borked to hell and back.

[ScottyMango]

You guys know this is a TEAM-BASED game, right? People who cry NERF NERF NERF usually have that stupid as hell solo mmo mentality. Can you solo? Yes. Does it matter that X class can do it faster than Y and Z class? Not to me it doesn't.

A flinched mob is no threat to the party, and weak bullet makes bosses die(which is what we all want when they spawn).

I can agree with most of this. The only reason I really see nerfing as somewhat necessary is when one class is so OP that it makes the other classes pointless to play (other than for fun).

[Kondibon]

You guys know this is a TEAM-BASED game, right? People who cry NERF NERF NERF usually have that stupid as hell solo mmo mentality. Can you solo? Yes. Does it matter that X class can do it faster than Y and Z class? Not to me it doesn't.

A flinched mob is no threat to the party, and weak bullet makes bosses die(which is what we all want when they spawn).

Actually this is what worried me. It IS a team based game, but what happens in team based games when one class has a skill that helps everyone to the point of being a must have not just for them but all the other classes.

I honestly think all the classes need to be rebalanced in one way or another. The fact that a good chunk of the techs are outshined by Rafoie and Gigrants makes me groan. The fact that a tanking build isn't particularly useful in the long run means there's really only one way for hunters to go if they want to be "effective".

Sure the game is easy either way right now, but what happens when things get harder and take longer to the point where no one even wants to play if they don't have a ranger with weak shot, a pure fire tree Force, and a max Fury Hunter in their party?

That said, I'm starting to agree with the people who say it's still too early to tell anyway.

[Daiyousei]

@gigawuts: my problem with just attacks is that other than the gunslash, it takes longer for the circle to appear with rifles and launchers, so I can't even just spam m1 but have to wait a little longer, sometimes it doesn't even appear.

I use Just attack sneak shooter all the time, and it already is very powerful without weak bullet effect

[Macman]

Wat. It fires bullets that do 300+ damage on enemy weakspots and has an excellent PA in Thrillsplode that puts out high damage to multiple targets very quickly. o_o
Talking about the regular attacks. PAs are fine.

[gigawuts]

@gigawuts: my problem with just attacks is that other than the gunslash, it takes longer for the circle to appear with rifles and launchers, so I can't even just spam m1 but have to wait a little longer, sometimes it doesn't even appear.

I use Just attack sneak shooter all the time, and it already is very powerful without weak bullet effect

Alright. Now play hunter, where it's just attack or just go home. You'll learn the rhythm for each weapon with practice.

edit: I'm not trying to be a dick when I tell rangers to play hunter. Ranger permits laziness because you won't get hit with bad gameplay. With hunter you will be punished with a punch in the face for bad gameplay. Like I said, sink or swim. Many of the skills you pick up on are directly comparable to skills on other classes. Just attacks, dodging, and reading enemy tells are all useful skills for all classes (real skills, not skill tree skills).

[Daiyousei]

I have played hunter, I enjoyed it more because it's a better rhythm with just attacks, no need to wait at all.

[gigawuts]

Then we played different hunters, because the JA timing is all very different for each melee weapon and not even close to holding M1.

[jooozek]

How about everyone complaining about launcher being overpowered goes ahead and tries soloing with only a launcher the panthers? Want it to be even more fun? Only use Divine Launcher.

Everyone keeps forgetting that some enemies don't have weakspots and it might become a trend, and ranger base damage is the lowest from all classes till they pop weak bullet on enemy body, but its not like you don't benefit from it, rite? I really wouldn't mind a damage nerf on launcher but not without a buff of normal damage on rifles.


Then we played different hunters, because the JA timing is all very different for each melee weapon and not even close to holding M1.
Not everyone sits in the overhead (not over shoulder) camera and just lock-on stuff, if you ask me, I'm all pro about totally removing autoaim for ranged weapons.

[Daiyousei]

Then again, you cannot move while shooting the launcher, you're kinda risking yourself just to shoot the thing. Worse when solo when you're their only target.

People have told me to jump in the air then shoot, but I find the enemy AI is just smart enough to take a swipe or lunge at you as you land.

[gigawuts]

How about everyone complaining about launcher being overpowered goes ahead and tries soloing with only a launcher the panthers? Want it to be even more fun? Only use Divine Launcher.

Do you mean to tell me-

I just want to be absolutely clear here...

Do you mean to tell me that there isn't one weapon that performs the best in every single situation?

what-if-I-told-you-needing-to-change-weapons-doesn't-make-something-balanced-morpheus.png

[jooozek]

No, I'm just telling you the easiest way to get into an awful situation that can show you clearly the biggest flaws that you all keep ignoring.

[gigawuts]

I wouldn't be talking about a class I haven't been playing. This is why I don't comment on force, besides saying it's the burst damage class and the defacto healer class (Which, let's be honest, with stars everyone is a defacto healer class.)

Really. Anyone whining that ranger is even slightly challenging direly needs to play a class that can't s+m1 to victory.

[jooozek]

From what I saw you played only normal with lollockon. Why don't play some solo runs with weaker npcs to spawn more monsters in lets say, mines.

[gigawuts]

Or I could tell you the truth - that I already do. Auto, manual, lock on targeting, all of it.

But that would imply I have something to prove to you. Which I plainly don't. I don't care what you think about my abilities. If my word isn't enough, then that sounds like a personal problem jooozek.

edit: by the way, anyone saying launcher isn't good at close range, try shooting your feet. Until ranger has self-damage I don't want to hear about the launcher's weakness to close range combat.

[Daiyousei]

Until ranger has self-damage I don't want to hear about the launcher's weakness to close range combat.

That would make Zero Distance a PA that self-damages then no?

[gigawuts]

Are you inside the explosion? No? It goes in front of you? It could be made into a special case, even if you technically are? Then no, it wouldn't.

note: I'm not saying this should actually be made to deal self-damage, I'm just saying it's a viable strategy that everyone should be utilizing.

[Daiyousei]

Then I wouldn't mind self-damage since I don't shoot at my feet much anyways, unless there are a bunch of enemies just waiting for me to land.

Also while in the air, the launcher does not need to reload, so you can fire again and again until you land.

[gigawuts]

You should try it. It solves a lot of problems. Sometimes I let enemies approach just to save PP. Twelve dagans up close on city, all of which could down me in two hits because I'm level 20 in hard city, and then I just divine launcher my feet. Oh look, they're all dead in 2-3 hits with my 4 star launcher and pure s-atk mag lololol.

[jooozek]

Or I could tell you the truth - that I already do. Auto, manual, lock on targeting, all of it.

But that would imply I have something to prove to you. Which I plainly don't. I don't care what you think about my abilities. If my word isn't enough, then that sounds like a personal problem jooozek.

Word on internet is worth nothing. Everyone can leech in parties with a launcher. Not denying that. But try to take the lead and jump into frays of even slightly agile monsters, once you get stunlocked you are pretty much dead if you don't sport stamina sub-units. Sure, there are those spam-from-a-mile guys that don't know that TPS exists. I'm not also saying that launcher takes too much skill. It's more about having eyes around your head if you want to play more lively instead of shooting with one hand, and masturbating with the other one.

You should try it. It solves a lot of problems. Sometimes I let enemies approach just to save PP. Twelve dagans up close on city, all of which could down me in two hits because I'm level 20 in hard city, and then I just divine launcher my feet. Oh look, they're all dead in 2-3 hits with my 4 star launcher and pure s-atk mag lololol.
That totally sounds like the level needed to access mines, yeah.

[Daiyousei]

Zero distance does good enough for me, back up a few steps, then Zero Distance for big explosion, though I agree divine launcher doing more damage, I just don't like enemies getting thrown into the air.

Oh and cluster bullet may be powerful but also it takes a while to figure out the range it covers, too close and too far and enemies are unaffected, and it has to explode in the air or it doesn't cluster out, too high in the air and it doesn't even work on ground enemies.

[Husq]

Really. Anyone whining that ranger is even slightly challenging direly needs to play a class that can't s+m1 to victory.

Seriously hunter is much more easier to play than the other two classes. Since I switched from ranger to hunter I don't have trouble with any bosses at all. Or maybe it is just I am better using a hunter... See people saying that one class is more challenging to play than the other is probably just bad at play that class.
I admit I completely suck at playing force. I see people killing mobs with techs, but I always get lynched.

[jooozek]

I admit I completely suck at playing force. I see people killing mobs with techs, but I always get lynched.
Keep distance ;-)

[Kondibon]

Keep distance ;-)

What? Never! Force isn't as fun if you aren't all up in everything's grill spamming Gigrants.

[Scarlet_Rain]

Seriously hunter is much more easier to play than the other two classes. Since I switched from ranger to hunter I don't have trouble with any bosses at all. Or maybe it is just I am better using a hunter... See people saying that one class is more challenging to play than the other is probably just bad at play that class.
I admit I completely suck at playing force. I see people killing mobs with techs, but I always get lynched.

except when it's the general consensus. sounds like it's the other way around... actually all 3 classes are fairly easy to play.. or maybe it's just the game itself

[gigawuts]

Word means nothing? What about all the clamoring you do re: M&K master race?

Oh you just lost any and all credibility you hoped to have, and I'm not even sure why you hoped to have it in the first place.

Any crying you do about being stunlocked is twenty times worse on hunters, where they need to not only get even closer, but they need to get closer every single time with a shorter duration dash. So they have extra health...what good is that against being stunlocked? You're locked. That's the point. Another 100 or so health doesn't matter. Also, the stun grenades hit for far, far more damage on hunters due to the alarmingly wide r-def gap between hunters and rangers, and don't even get me started on the 170+ damage dealt by those laser darkers or the volleys of 3 bullets from gardins that are attacking you because you're the closest target.

I'm familiar with the claim that hunter is easier than ranger, and it sounds like what's going on is players are just good at different things. Me, I'm good at dodging and evading, so surviving is never an issue. That's what hunter is good at, and why I prefer it. When I take that and do it on a ranger, I have survivability AND good damage at good ranges.

As for hard mines, give it time. I'm only level 20. The 20-30 grind is something I dread. What I know for a fact now is that areas that gave me a hard time on hunter at the same levels are absurdly easy now. What I can't take head on, I can demolish with simple smart positioning. And let's be honest, with divine launcher's tossup I can take everything head on. If it gets harder please inform me.

[jooozek]

Word means nothing? What about all the clamoring you do re: M&K master race?

Oh you just lost any and all credibility you hoped to have, and I'm not even sure why you hoped to have it in the first place.
You know why words mean nothing any why do I not care about "me losing all
credibility"?


From what I saw you played only normal with lollockon. Why don't play some solo runs with weaker npcs to spawn more monsters in lets say, mines.


Or I could tell you the truth - that I already do. Auto, manual, lock on targeting, all of it.

But that would imply I have something to prove to you. Which I plainly don't. I don't care what you think about my abilities. If my word isn't enough, then that sounds like a personal problem jooozek.



...


As for hard mines, give it time. I'm only level 20. The 20-30 grind is something I dread. What I know for a fact now is that areas that gave me a hard time on hunter at the same levels are absurdly easy now. What I can't take head on, I can demolish with simple smart positioning. And let's be honest, with divine launcher's tossup I can take everything head on. If it gets harder please inform me.

Congratulations on mowing down dagans.

[gigawuts]

Solo runs with weaker NPC's - check.

Sorry, I just assumed that since mines is easy on hunter it would be even easier when I don't need to get close. I should've written that out for you.

This isn't a game about what's harder, it's a game about what's easier. And ranger is just easier. Arguing that is silly.

[jooozek]

Where did I argue that ranger is easier than hunter? You just made and ass out you and me.

Let me say this:

Rangers are easier than hunters.

Are you happy now? It's what I really believe.

[gigawuts]

Where did I argue that ranger is easier than hunter? You just made and ass out you and me.

Let me say this:

Rangers are easier than hunters.

Are you happy now? It's what I really believe.

I thought the whole point of you replying was to somehow argue that it wasn't.

I've been posting all along that I think basically everything about ranger is fine - only launcher's easy spammability is anything close to a real problem - so I'm not sure why you took issue with anything I've said at all.

edit: Since I left it out of the last post, I'm 99% certain NPC's aren't counted in total player count when considering spawns. Not positive, but pretty sure. This would be the main reason MPA marathoners dislike NPC's.

[gigawuts]

please no

[Husq]

As for hard mines, give it time. I'm only level 20. The 20-30 grind is something I dread. What I know for a fact now is that areas that gave me a hard time on hunter at the same levels are absurdly easy now. What I can't take head on, I can demolish with simple smart positioning. And let's be honest, with divine launcher's tossup I can take everything head on. If it gets harder please inform me.

If you are playing as a ranger now, after maxing your hunter, the game will automatically become easier, as your mag is already at a higher level.
Although I started with a ranger, I never got the hang of using the launcher. I tried using it on a rogue ragne once, but there was just too many other beasties rooming around, and using the launcher just made me a jumping duck. Besides that it is not that she/he? likes too stand still for too long. Seriously, charge with assault rifle into a crowd/enemy, defuse shell and then stab it with gunslash, or run far far away and then use the launcher, when they are lying on the ground. Launcher are useless imo, unless it is used to support other players, like getting rid of the smaller beasties. Yes it does a lot of damage, but it is unlikely that you can kill tougher enemies with three hits and they do tend to walk towards you unless there is a hunter distracting them.
It is always funny to see new rangers in the city mission trying to take on an El Arda with a launcher alone.

[jooozek]

edit: Since I left it out of the last post, I'm 99% certain NPC's aren't counted in total player count when considering spawns. Not positive, but pretty sure. This would be the main reason MPA marathoners dislike NPC's.
Based on my experience when trying to S-Rank stuff solo I get denser spawns of enemies, sure, might be not true, not saying that I'd bet my balls. But thats my experience. And MPA marathoners dislike NPCs because... they do shitty dps. That's all there to it.

[Saffran]

Well, many people pointed at obviously flawed things already, so let me point which ones I think are relevant :

PSO2 is a mmorpg, right ? We all play in tiny "rooms" with only 4 people, and sometimes we can get to 12 players, so that's not really "massive multiplayer", but it kinda is THAT gig, you know ? PvE, all of that.

Well, we have one class that can do EVERYTHING in the game all by itself and perform out-of-this-fanstasy-world damage whilst playing solo. And the only way the others are gonna reach that level is if that class shares the secret : the weak bullet skill.
That's kind of a dead giveaway to the elephant in the room.

I'm not jealous of teh DPS, I don't *care* for the e-penis. I'm just saying, we're in a game that revolves around team play and should be tallied so that you *need* a team to attempt some stuffs.
The hardest boss my level 28 character can face is Hard mode Dark Ragne. I've seen a Hard Mode Dark Ragne being killed by a solo ranger with 6 *traps*. It's not even an attack, not even a PA, not even a feat. It's just getting to the weak point, applying another weak point on top and using 6 basic shop items. If the ranger was in the end-game gear and end-game skill trees and the likes, I would understand, but we're using the junk item that one can buy at 800ish(?) meseta a pop in the shop, at all times. Something is *seriously* *WRONG* in this picture.

I've only played Hunter and a tiny little bit of Force. I dunno how it *feels* to play Ranger. I'm sure that Weak Bullet helps tremendously to get things done in solo the way it works now, but it just destroys anything and everything, *period*.

How do you counter a free "hit for 9999 damage for 18 seconds" ability? 100 millions HP on Rockbear in ultimate? That's not gonna happen and we all know it.
I don't have the wording of the skill definition right now, but "nerfing" it to "turning a non-weak spot into a weak spot" (meaning it's useless on weak spots) would still help out Rangers who are soloing, it would still be useful in party play, but it would not allow the players to kill the hardest boss in the game currently within a couple of seconds.

And to end up on a lighter, more trolling note, gunslash weapons are useless junk.
(You're welcome)

[Enforcer MKV]

Exactly. My point is that no one really has no reason to be bitching this much about this stuff as it stands now.

DATRNGERKILLEDDEMB4ICOULDGETDEMWTFIGOTEXPANDDROPSB UTIMMAD.

Or, DATHNTRKEEPSDASHINGAHEADANDKILLINGSTUFFB4ICANGETDE REWTF.

Or, DATFRCUSERAFOIENGIGANT2MUCHCANTSEEWTF.

Honestly, I had to reread the lines a couple times, but this made me laugh pretty damn hard. Cheers for that.

But seriously, the arguments here are degrading rapidly.....think we're gonna need a lock soon.

Oh, well, might as well enjoy the spectacle. *sits back with popcorn*

[Enforcer MKV]

And to end up on a lighter, more trolling note, gunslash weapons are useless junk.
(You're welcome)

Ironic, considering my favorite weapon when playing Hunter is a tie between my gunslash (saber mode primarily) and partisan. :lol:

Oh, you...:D

[gigawuts]

If you are playing as a ranger now, after maxing your hunter, the game will automatically become easier, as your mag is already at a higher level.
Although I started with a ranger, I never got the hang of using the launcher. I tried using it on a rogue ragne once, but there was just too many other beasties rooming around, and using the launcher just made me a jumping duck. Besides that it is not that she/he? likes too stand still for too long. Seriously, charge with assault rifle into a crowd/enemy, defuse shell and then stab it with gunslash, or run far far away and then use the launcher, when they are lying on the ground. Launcher are useless imo, unless it is used to support other players, like getting rid of the smaller beasties. Yes it does a lot of damage, but it is unlikely that you can kill tougher enemies with three hits and they do tend to walk towards you unless there is a hunter distracting them.
It is always funny to see new rangers in the city mission trying to take on an El Arda with a launcher alone.

Would you mean my pure S-ATK mag or my 77 S-ATK 50 Ability mag. Or maybe my 55 S-ATK 27 Ability mag that I'm raising very carefully? All the while I use basically exclusively the AR and launcher, because if I wanted to use gunslash I'd be using my hunter.

I do have plans for a 72/15/13 Tucana, and then later on maybe a flatter split 75/74/1 Tucana, but for now these are my mags because lol AC.

[BIG OLAF]

SEGA needs to introduce PvP so people can actually have a legitimate reason to bitch about their class being weaker than another class lol.

They also need to release PvP so people can stop cluttering threads with rage-posts after a few pages and just go "take it outside" and beat each other senseless.

Though, then people would just use that as an excuse to fuel their ignorance. Losing an argument? No problem! Just challenge the other person to a 1v1! If you beat them, you win (even if you were wrong initially)! If they don't want to fight you, you still win!

[gigawuts]

They also need to release PvP so people can stop cluttering threads with rage-posts after a few pages and just go "take it outside" and beat each other senseless.

Though, then people would just use that as an excuse to fuel their ignorance. Losing an argument? No problem! Just challenge the other person to a 1v1! If you beat them, you win (even if you were wrong initially)! If they don't want to fight you, you still win!

but that would be unfaaaaaaaaair you have better gear because you have no life you only win because you're a tryhard you fucking nerd go outside you need to get laid lol omg play ranger loser scrub

(I promise you, PVP will only worsen anything bleak in the community.)

[Hansha]

No, I'm just telling you the easiest way to get into an awful situation that can show you clearly the biggest flaws that you all keep ignoring.

We aren't ignoring flaws. Those flaws are insignificant or remedied by being able to switch to another weapon.
Being stuck in place is not a large flaw for the launcher. You are literally 20-40ft away from a target, and only two enemies can make up that gap (Panthers, which are a boss) The others have to walk through rockets that can stun then or launch them in the air at any moment and kill in two shots.
The other flaw is its overall performance against bosses. But of course, why not just use a rifle with weak shot in these situations?

What I'm gonna say is that Rangers have the tools for EVERY situation and are also THE BEST in many situations.

Weapons:
Launchers: The most consistent, high damage mob killer. Large AOE, Ranged utility, and flinches
Rifles: Best burst damage boss killer. Weak Bullet, Sneak Snipe, Mobility, Ranged.
Gunslash: Consistent single target damage. Thrillsplosion. Close Ranged situations with Hunter dodge capabilities.

Support tools:
Weak Bullet: The best damage support in the game.
Jellen Shot: No one cares all u need is weak bullet.

So basically, Rangers have the best mob killer (that competes with broken Rafoie), the best boss killer, and the best support ability. On top of this, they are out of harms way in MOST situations, have decent defense, unneeded hp, and can start hurting enemies far away before Hunters can reach them.

Meanwhile, Hunters have the best defensive skills in the game and can take a beating against S-atks. Their dodge is quick and easy to use and Just Guard makes you hard to hit unless lazy or attacked from behind. Their damage is consistent but only at close range. Rangers are better than them at mob AND boss killing unless in a party with......a Ranger. The only support Hunters give is being a distraction. Ranger support actually benefits themselves in solo situations as well.

Forces may not have the best support skill, but they do have a variety of support. Shifta, Deband, Resta, Anti. None of these match up to Weak Bullet btw, but they are useful in their own mob killing or during accidental situations. Three of a Force's support techs are for ppl that mess up or are lazy. Only Shifta actually contributes to killing enemies. However, Forces can be the best mob killers in many situations, and the second best boss killer due to a PP reliance (or the worst it depends). Forces have the laziest dodge in the game so they can hardly get hit. Forces also never miss thanks to Rafoie. They are balanced solely by HP and PP.

In one sentence, Rangers are the best solo AND team class thanks to being the best boss killer, mob killer, and support.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

They also need to release PvP so people can stop cluttering threads with rage-posts after a few pages and just go "take it outside" and beat each other senseless.

Though, then people would just use that as an excuse to fuel their ignorance. Losing an argument? No problem! Just challenge the other person to a 1v1! If you beat them, you win (even if you were wrong initially)! If they don't want to fight you, you still win!

lol pvp probably gonna be influenced by equipment which sucks. gonna be so much trolling.

"GET SKILLZ DAWG *+10 9 star armor units with mutation II, vol/ragne/mizer soul, whatever else boosts attack/hp on every unit, +10 9star class weapon with same stats"

oh lol ok.

if there's anything i learned froms4 leej lol ego definitely fuels people's motivation to get better equipment.

i guess it just depends on how seriously pvp is implemented. of course if equipment influences it any sane player will immediately dismiss it as nonsense and just a fun way to pass the time.

[Jakosifer]

Exactly. My point is that no one really has no reason to be bitching this much about this stuff as it stands now.

DATRNGERKILLEDDEMB4ICOULDGETDEMWTFIGOTEXPANDDROPSB UTIMMAD.

Or, DATHNTRKEEPSDASHINGAHEADANDKILLINGSTUFFB4ICANGETDE REWTF.

Or, DATFRCUSERAFOIENGIGANT2MUCHCANTSEEWTF.

It's sad that I was able to read these the first time through. Still, yeah, that's pretty much all I get from hearing people complain about another class as a whole.

[Cyclon]

Based on my experience when trying to S-Rank stuff solo I get denser spawns of enemies, sure, might be not true, not saying that I'd bet my balls. But thats my experience. And MPA marathoners dislike NPCs because... they do shitty dps. That's all there to it.
Since we're talking experience, in mine a npc character is worth about a third to a half of a human character in terms of spawns.

So having three of them would equal having one human character with you, or one point five I guess. Or something. Or something indeed.

[gigawuts]

There's a thought, maybe NPC's are worth three fifths of a player.

Oh dear, what have I done.

[Cyclon]

There's a thought, maybe NPC's are worth three fifths of a player.

Oh dear, what have I done.
You have done nothing. I have. Dance.

[Xaeris]

There's a thought, maybe NPC's are worth three fifths of a player.

Oh dear, what have I done.

Sounds like a fair compromise. (My spot in hell has been prepared for some time now, thank you.)

[jooozek]

We aren't ignoring flaws. Those flaws are insignificant or remedied by being able to switch to another weapon.
Being stuck in place is not a large flaw for the launcher. You are literally 20-40ft away from a target, and only two enemies can make up that gap (Panthers, which are a boss) The others have to walk through rockets that can stun then or launch them in the air at any moment and kill in two shots.
The other flaw is its overall performance against bosses. But of course, why not just use a rifle with weak shot in these situations?
As I said numerous times already, I'm all pro nerfing base launcher damage plus weak bullet and sneak snipe, those are bullshit, base rifle damage is also bullshit. Its freaking useless on what it's supposed to be useful, on single targets. SEGA has already proven that they can put regular enemies in the game that don't have weakspots so a launcher won't really help you, neither will using a rifle.



What I'm gonna say is that Rangers have the tools for EVERY situation and are also THE BEST in many situations.

Weapons:
Launchers: The most consistent, high damage mob killer. Large AOE, Ranged utility, and flinches
Rifles: Best burst damage boss killer. Weak Bullet, Sneak Snipe, Mobility, Ranged.
Gunslash: Consistent single target damage. Thrillsplosion. Close Ranged situations with Hunter dodge capabilities.

Support tools:
Weak Bullet: The best damage support in the game.
Jellen Shot: No one cares all u need is weak bullet.
Using three weapons is something I don't want to do the costs of keeping up all three weapons at top notch.


So basically, Rangers have the best mob killer (that competes with broken Rafoie), the best boss killer, and the best support ability. On top of this, they are out of harms way in MOST situations, have decent defense, unneeded hp, and can start hurting enemies far away before Hunters can reach them.

Meanwhile, Hunters have the best defensive skills in the game and can take a beating against S-atks. Their dodge is quick and easy to use and Just Guard makes you hard to hit unless lazy or attacked from behind. Their damage is consistent but only at close range. Rangers are better than them at mob AND boss killing unless in a party with......a Ranger. The only support Hunters give is being a distraction. Ranger support actually benefits themselves in solo situations as well.
As this is more informational than anything I can't really say anything.


Forces may not have the best support skill, but they do have a variety of support. Shifta, Deband, Resta, Anti. None of these match up to Weak Bullet btw, but they are useful in their own mob killing or during accidental situations. Three of a Force's support techs are for ppl that mess up or are lazy. Only Shifta actually contributes to killing enemies. However, Forces can be the best mob killers in many situations, and the second best boss killer due to a PP reliance (or the worst it depends). Forces have the laziest dodge in the game so they can hardly get hit. Forces also never miss thanks to Rafoie. They are balanced solely by HP and PP.

In one sentence, Rangers are the best solo AND team class thanks to being the best boss killer, mob killer, and support.
Forces will start shining more once more stuff loses weakspots. And HP isn't really a problem, just look at my force:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://sadpanda.us/images/1112846-WVZBVNZ.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
It cost me like 100k to get three +50 HP sub units and getting on each Stamina2 (+20HP ability).

[gigawuts]

As a role, hunters being tankers and distractions sounds alright. In reality it's not very fun, and once you're evenly leveled it's not even necessary.

On the one hand I'd like an area where it IS necessary, but on the other the ability to at least inefficiently solo something is important. Sometimes you don't want to play with other people. There's also the solo quests, and being split up by codes throwing up barricades would be a death sentence.

While not a bad role, it's just not necessary or even fun to be relegated to a role where you're there merely to keep the real damage dealers from being hit.

And that's assuming they ever make it so hunter is actually required for that, which at the moment it's not. In the mean time it's still the most fun for me, even if not the most efficient. In the end, though, fun IS efficient, since being bored would just make me stop playing. Rangers are an important component of an efficient team, it's just that more rangers is just generally better that people take issue with.

[Daiyousei]

Code Rescues are even more of a death sentence as you're trapped inside a bubble on a random spot on the map, and this may be near other players or in a completely isolated place, even worse is if the other players get delayed by said barricades throwing up when they trigger codes. If you get caught by Code Rescue, you're going to need to hold your own for a bit. Players would probably need AoE damage to keep enemies at bay. Rangers got their launcher, Forces got their techs, and Hunters got some PAs that damage around them.

[Macman]

^I've had code rescue drag me away to a spot, then had Vol Dragon spawn on said spot.

That was an.... interesting day.

[ScottyMango]

I've never seen code rescues as anything other than free mob kills.

Just sit there and spam your best aoe attack and the only thing that happens is you end up getting a lot of drops.

Plus, the sides of the dome act as a very easy way to recharge your PP.

[Aewyn]

They'll be dead because of the other rangers firing their launchers.

If you think initial damage by rangers is low you are very very very bad at playing ranger. Initial damage for hunters being higher than rangers is a bad joke. Hunters need to, you know, run up to an enemy. Rangers plainly don't.

The thing with rangers is, next to hunters - on paper - rangers have slightly worse damage output but benefit in burst damage with weak bullet + PA's as well as having the long range capabilities to apply this damage in a wider area.

In REALITY, since things with enough health that they die before the hunter can get to an enemy being launchered to death, this means hunters get shafted. Only when things have boatloads of health - such as in a boss fight - does this change. Then the issue for hunters is keeping in range and evading attacks. All these rangers crying about the banshee/bantha fight think they hav eit rough, now try needing to get in gunslash range to be effective. Oh no, he hit you at midrange? Now try having to approach him the whole time he's jumping around, while simultaneously avoiding it. Hunters then have to deal with shorter range, higher damage attacks while in their own optimal range. Before you bring up sonic arrow, please explain to me how this is at all different from weak bullet + 10k sneak shots, what with the not being able to refill PP due to being out of range. Besides having far less damage, I mean.

Assuming you're a fantastic dodger and blocker you won't be knocked around too much, nor will you need to heal often. This is often the case for myself and many hunters I've met - sink or swim (or change classes). Even still, rangers outperform us due to the class nuances such as gears. Yes, sure, sword can easily outdamage ranger weapons...if we keep the gear bar filled (Partisan gear only increases range, wired lance gear also requires you deal damage to refill). Keeping gears full only becomes really possible with either tons of small enemies or a boss we can pound on for good periods of time. We need to work for our bonus. Rangers do not, however. Their bonus is merely a skill on a cooldown, like a fury stance without the defense penalty. I sure would like it if fury stance was not just stronger, but instead of limiting defense merely restricted me from using my normal attacks.

One more thing - if I'm not mistaken, the roll every ranger cries about has more invulnerability frames than the step hunters have. Oh, you can't spam it? Spam doesn't do a fucking thing against a single high damage attack.

None of this is actually a problem, I'm just tired of awful rangers whinging like little four year olds that little johnny over there does more damage after he's busted his ass while most of the resident rangers lazily hold m1 without even remembering just attacks exist.Wow, dude. To call your post an overreaction would be putting it mildly. This is just a hypothetical discussion on an internet forum so let's not turn this into a contest, eh?

The people playing the forces and hunters I play with are top-level players. My gear isn't slouchy, my rifle and launcher have over 450 attack each. With all my buffs on during a mission I have over 1200 RATK and 400+ Ability. I don't have a problem doing damage, especially solo. The thing is that Hunters and Forces, played well, have a much higher damage output that Rangers have difficulty matching because they don't have wide-area piercing or multi-hit attacks, just boom boom explosions from launchers (which are great weapons mind you). These attacks are great and can be versatile, even extremely damaging, but they are not useful enough when everyone else is just as badass as you. That isn't a Ranger problem, it's that other classes deal the damage much faster outside of a buffed state and enemies have laughably low hit points.

I have NEVER seen quality Hunter players get shafted in combat. Like, ever. Ever. Noob and mid-level Hunters, sure-- constantly. Forces, if they dodge out of a charge sure, that sucks but I lose PP too if I get knocked down during an attack. Also as far as I have seen it is not possible to do more than 9999 damage with Weak Bullet, and that is just in videos since the most I've ever done is 6000 something.

For future reference, you do yourself a disservice by dismissing others as bads because you don't like what they have to say. Rangers are easy, I never said once they weren't easy, but in a group they simply are not capable of the same damage output if you only use launchers. You will be outdamaged, there is no question about it. Of course, you'll catch right up in the damage totals if you Weak Bullet and no one else takes advantage of the weak spot but yourself.

[GoldenFalcon]

I can kill Ragne in hard city (solo) faster as a hunter than I can as a ranger, even though my ranger has weak point advance 1, 2, and standing snipe maxed, with 6/10 weak point bullet
Hunter is max fury stance with sword gear, and only 3/10 JA, S-Atk Up is like 10/10 instead

So, either I don't know how to properly fight Ragne as a ranger, or I'm missing something obvious

[gigawuts]

Wow, dude. To call your post an overreaction would be putting it mildly. This is just a hypothetical discussion on an internet forum so let's not turn this into a contest, eh?

The people playing the forces and hunters I play with are top-level players. My gear isn't slouchy, my rifle and launcher have over 450 attack each. With all my buffs on during a mission I have over 1200 RATK and 400+ Ability. I don't have a problem doing damage, especially solo. The thing is that Hunters and Forces, played well, have a much higher damage output that Rangers have difficulty matching because they don't have wide-area piercing or multi-hit attacks, just boom boom explosions from launchers (which are great weapons mind you). These attacks are great and can be versatile, even extremely damaging, but they are not useful enough when everyone else is just as badass as you. That isn't a Ranger problem, it's that other classes deal the damage much faster outside of a buffed state and enemies have laughably low hit points.

I have NEVER seen quality Hunter players get shafted in combat. Like, ever. Ever. Noob and mid-level Hunters, sure-- constantly. Forces, if they dodge out of a charge sure, that sucks but I lose PP too if I get knocked down during an attack. Also as far as I have seen it is not possible to do more than 9999 damage with Weak Bullet, and that is just in videos since the most I've ever done is 6000 something.

For future reference, you do yourself a disservice by dismissing others as bads because you don't like what they have to say. Rangers are easy, I never said once they weren't easy, but in a group they simply are not capable of the same damage output if you only use launchers. You will be outdamaged, there is no question about it. Of course, you'll catch right up in the damage totals if you Weak Bullet and no one else takes advantage of the weak spot but yourself.

A post having a lot of words does not an overreaction make. I am also not calling others bads, I'm making plain observations. These are things I've either experienced firsthand or been told by other rangers I know. There's nothing wrong with preferring the easy class, but there is when people cry that it's too hard next to other classes.

The damage is visually capped. If you check your visiphone logs you might find damage considerably higher than 9999, if you've ever seen it on your own character.

If you're having trouble with Ragne, it's probably because Ragne is the biggest anti-ranger boss there is. His lightning smashes, jumping, and 180 degree disc throwing is all alright when there's cover to hide behind, but when it's just a wide open area you're kind of screwed into spending more time running than shooting.

[GoldenFalcon]

If you're having trouble with Ragne, it's probably because Ragne is the biggest anti-ranger boss there is. His lightning smashes, jumping, and 180 degree disc throwing is all alright when there's cover to hide behind, but when it's just a wide open area you're kind of screwed into spending more time running than shooting.

When he tries to shoot discs, I jump and JA One Point onto his nearby leg
And when he summons lightning, it's just an annoyance which removes my standing snipe bonus
I guess my problem is poor usage of weakpoint bullet, coupled with him running on the wall or doing his 50 foot leaps, making it so the weakpoint on that leg is all but wasted. Same with his leg cracking, removing the weakpoint super prematurely
I should try again

[gigawuts]

Yeah the cracking leg thing is a huge oversight. It happens when a target changes, like when tranmizer's core becomes exposed it becomes a different target from when it's closed. So rangers who hit it with weak bullet before it's open kind of waste a weak bullet.

[Aewyn]

I've never had trouble with Ragne. I do the same thing that GF does and have never had a problem. In fact I'd say that Ragne is probably the easiest boss aside from having decent HP, but I still think it should have even more. A good fight is the Hollow Corpse Dark Ragne from changeover duel. Now that's a proper Ragne.

[gigawuts]

Ragne's one of the most fun bosses for me as a hunter, right there with the banshee/bantha and mizer. Boring ones include but are not limited to catadran, vader (I know, I had such high hopes for this boss, but in the end it's just "avoid cyclone, hold m1 on little hitboxes" which is quite tedious with melee weapons), and rockbear.

I can't figure out whether I like vol dragon or just find him tedious, but the fun ones I listed are great if you have just guard.

[GoldenFalcon]

I've never had trouble with Ragne. I do the same thing that GF does and have never had a problem. In fact I'd say that Ragne is probably the easiest boss aside from having decent HP, but I still think it should have even more. A good fight is the Hollow Corpse Dark Ragne from changeover duel. Now that's a proper Ragne.

I dunno
Like, if I use a weakpoint bullet to crack the leg, I run out of PP when it cracks
Then I can either use both of my remaining charges to combo the shit out of the leg to try to make Ragne fall, then not have weakpoint for the back.. or just hoard PP while not shooting, and take forever on each leg
I'm thinking I should use my first weakpoint activation to just get initial cracks on each leg, and then focus normal shots on a leg while waiting for recharge, then hope I have enough burst damage to break the leg with weakpoint + 4 consecutive One Points. That way I can shoot the other 1 or 2 weakpoints into the back, then combo the back and try to activate Sneak Shooter every time I get 30 PP (One Point if I lose footing)

Thoughts?

[Jiraiza]

Before they nerf anything, they should fix the shitty hitboxes in this game. It's just horrible. Vol-kun is a big offender.

[gigawuts]

I dunno
Like, if I use a weakpoint bullet to crack the leg, I run out of PP when it cracks
Then I can either use both of my remaining charges to combo the shit out of the leg to try to make Ragne fall, then not have weakpoint for the back.. or just hoard PP while not shooting, and take forever on each leg
I'm thinking I should use my first weakpoint activation to just get initial cracks on each leg, and then focus normal shots on a leg while waiting for recharge, then hope I have enough burst damage to break the leg with weakpoint + 4 consecutive One Points. That way I can shoot the other 1 or 2 weakpoints into the back, then combo the back and try to activate Sneak Shooter every time I get 30 PP (One Point if I lose footing)

Thoughts?

I run into this exact problem, but I'm also 10 levels lower than city ragne so I figured that was the issue. I was thinking I'd crack each leg, THEN go for weak bullet.

[Mikura]

Maybe I just suck at hunter, but personally, I find ranger a hell of a lot easier to play than hunter (Can't speak about force yet). But I don't think they should be nerfed. The only thing I might would change is tone down weak bullet since you can do some insane damage with that.

[aug]

I don't think Rangers require any nerfing at all. (Maybe even to be buffed instead?)

Just to put out some reasons whiners in this thread didn't considered, ^^

1. Rifle/Launchers Bullets are SLOW and bound to miss a moving target/spot UNLESS Rangers go close enough near melee range.

Add in the difficulty to hit if there are other mobs around your target or your target is a hyper-active.

Add in again the difficulty of having limited WB bullets.

2. Next, regarding to Rangers hitting mobs from range before poor Hunter can reach,

- So the whiners are suggesting for Hunters to be able to reach AND hit the mobs the same time as Rangers AND loot the drops straight after that? :-?:-?

3. Next, about PAs like "Sneak Snipe" or "Weak Bullet",

"Sneak Snipe" - The dmg isn't even that impressive if not used with WB. AND you must be close to the target to be accurate. (because the damn slow projectile movement)

"Weak Bullet" - Mind you people, Rangers have to invest SPs into this skill just for the CHANCE to do high dmg and the CD is 108s at lvl 3 for 2 bullets. Whiners/Ranger-Haters made it sound like theres no cooldown for this skill.

All that said I don't think its as easy to use Rangers in all situations like the whiners are saying?

Very hilarious was how many people in this thread conveniently discarded thoughts about disadvantages as RA when they whine.

[Kondibon]

"Weak Bullet" - Mind you people, Rangers have to invest SPs into this skill just for the CHANCE to do high dmg and the CD is 108s at lvl 3 for 2 bullets. Whiners/Ranger-Haters made it sound like theres no cooldown for this skill.108 seconds isn't even 2 minutes, but you only need to use it once to make make it count And it's 100% unless you mean their chance of missing in which case that comes down more to the skill of the ranger. I don't think the whole class needs to be "nerfed" but I'd find the game more enjoyable if weak bullet didn't stack with other weakpoints.

I agree with the rest of the stuff except maybe rifle being slow. But your constant use of the word "Whiner" makes you come off as really condescending and it's hard for me to actually WANT to agree with you.

[aug]

...I agree with the rest of the stuff except maybe rifle being slow. But your constant use of the word "Whiner" makes you come off as really condescending and it's hard for me to actually WANT to agree with you.

I apologise for my crude use of words. There are just too many people in this thread literally asking for the class to be made useless which in my opinion is just overboard. (Among the pages I have read)


108 seconds isn't even 2 minutes, but you only need to use it once to make make it count And it's 100% unless you mean their chance of missing in which case that comes down more to the skill of the ranger. I don't think the whole class needs to be "nerfed" but I'd find the game more enjoyable if weak bullet didn't stack with other weakpoints.

Yes it is 100% but 2 mins isn't that short either. In my opinion, most people would only use it for boss fights which usually doesn't last more than 5 mins?

Besides that, I did mention to play well as Ranger, one has to be much more skilled than just spamming launchers or blindly shooting WBs thinking they will magically hit the spot.

Seems like to me most Rangers would rather go close to bosses despite being subjected atks as Hunters do with their worse def/hp for the chance to kill the boss faster. This is a fair trade off.

WB doesn't need to be even nerfed or changed I feel, simply because it isn't guaranteed to hit the spot the moment you shoot. It requires considerable amount of skill and possible risks to do it.

[Daiyousei]

Before they nerf anything, they should fix the shitty hitboxes in this game. It's just horrible. Vol-kun is a big offender.

Banshee and Banther somewhat too, when I use weak bullet when he's most vulnerable, after a failed lunge, I shoot at his head and I hit his paw instead, no wonder it's hard to dodge his paw swipe, its hitbox is huge.

[gigawuts]

aiming in video games

considerable skill

oh you were serious

[Kondibon]

WB doesn't need to be even nerfed or changed I feel, simply because it isn't guaranteed to hit the spot the moment you shoot. It requires considerable amount of skill and possible risks to do it.Most bosses are stunnable in some way or have times when they don't move much. That's usually when Weak bullet is used on their weak points. I have more of a problem with it in parties. Fighting a boss=fun for me. If the boss dies in less than 1 minute then it just isn't fun for me. I don't think the skill needs to be nerfed into oblivion. Letting it work on weak points makes it a bit too strong for me. I have no problem with it as is against other parts of enemies.

[GoldenFalcon]

It isn't about skill, unless you lack the ability to know when is a good time to fire the weakpoint bullet
..Or if you can't use your mouse/gamepad
I'd call that a low skill ceiling, which the majority of people should have gotten above years ago from other games

[Konflyk]

I don't think Rangers require any nerfing at all. (Maybe even to be buffed instead?)

Just to put out some reasons whiners in this thread didn't considered, ^^

1. Rifle/Launchers Bullets are SLOW and bound to miss a moving target/spot UNLESS Rangers go close enough near melee range.

Add in the difficulty to hit if there are other mobs around your target or your target is a hyper-active.

Add in again the difficulty of having limited WB bullets.

2. Next, regarding to Rangers hitting mobs from range before poor Hunter can reach,

- So the whiners are suggesting for Hunters to be able to reach AND hit the mobs the same time as Rangers AND loot the drops straight after that? :-?:-?

3. Next, about PAs like "Sneak Snipe" or "Weak Bullet",

"Sneak Snipe" - The dmg isn't even that impressive if not used with WB. AND you must be close to the target to be accurate. (because the damn slow projectile movement)

"Weak Bullet" - Mind you people, Rangers have to invest SPs into this skill just for the CHANCE to do high dmg and the CD is 108s at lvl 3 for 2 bullets. Whiners/Ranger-Haters made it sound like theres no cooldown for this skill.

All that said I don't think its as easy to use Rangers in all situations like the whiners are saying?

Very hilarious was how many people in this thread conveniently discarded thoughts about disadvantages as RA when they whine.

Can you even into English?

1. Because TPS mode doesn't exist

2. Assuming loot can be "stolen", have you even played this game before? I still get XP even if I don't touch the monster, I'd rather let you press buttons until something worthwhile spawns since your useless class needs someone to hold the aggro so you can be useful.

3. Can I get a link to the Ranger who solo'd banther and banshee in like 35 seconds?

Really guys, this is a dumb thread, it's like the 1000000th time it's been posted and it always ends the same. Yeah I'll admit, it's dumb that a lv 8 ranger can hit 4 digit damage, granted they use a skill to pull it off, but the DPS is low and caps at 9999 for now.

Whoever said Weak bullet should be used to turn anything into a weak spot instead of multiplying damage on a weak spot, honestly I believe this is correct. I play HU someone tags boss with weak bullet, I kill boss in 30 seconds, yep fun, granted I want to hunt for rares it's useful, but otherwise it takes the challenge out of a boss fight(granted it was ever a challenge)

As far as everything else considered with Rangers goes, it is, has, and will always be a SUPPORT class, so just let them do their damn job and support us Hunters.

/thread

[GoldenFalcon]

The people that hit 9999, they can check Visiphone and see max damage listed is 10,800
Just saying

[Konflyk]

Then I stand corrected with cap damage, oh well I've seen the numbers increased and fixed in other online games, sega better not give us that bull again about "Hurr we can't raise the meseta cap because we built the game like that, and it can't be done"(2004)

[GoldenFalcon]

Like, later on, with level 80 Rangers with level 250 mags that happen to have like 200 R-Atk, and all of the damage skills on the tree capped, and level 20 Sneak Shooter, etc. etc.
They better make damage numbers show above 9999, such as letting them see their 25,000 damage

[gigawuts]

I've been told about a 50k launcher hit.

Not sure if believe.

Then again

Not sure if doubt.

[GoldenFalcon]

I've been told about a 50k launcher hit.

Not sure if believe.

Then again

Not sure if doubt.

I personally won't believe any extravagant damage numbers that are above like 12k, unless they provide proof with a screenshot

[aug]

Can you even into English?

1. Because TPS mode doesn't exist

2. Assuming loot can be "stolen", have you even played this game before? I still get XP even if I don't touch the monster, I'd rather let you press buttons until something worthwhile spawns since your useless class needs someone to hold the aggro so you can be useful.

Wow... are you sure your in the right thread? Rangers are useless and you still want them nerfed?

As well, please come back to this thread after your assumptions are made reality and kindly GTFO for now.



3. Can I get a link to the Ranger who solo'd banther and banshee in like 35 seconds?

Really guys, this is a dumb thread, it's like the 1000000th time it's been posted and it always ends the same. Yeah I'll admit, it's dumb that a lv 8 ranger can hit 4 digit damage, granted they use a skill to pull it off, but the DPS is low and caps at 9999 for now.

Whoever said Weak bullet should be used to turn anything into a weak spot instead of multiplying damage on a weak spot, honestly I believe this is correct. I play HU someone tags boss with weak bullet, I kill boss in 30 seconds, yep fun, granted I want to hunt for rares it's useful, but otherwise it takes the challenge out of a boss fight(granted it was ever a challenge)

As far as everything else considered with Rangers goes, it is, has, and will always be a SUPPORT class, so just let them do their damn job and support us Hunters.

/thread

30 seconds? You kill faster than the Ranger with top-end gears and you want complain more.

And why don't someone start posting some Hunters with top-end gears to compare?

[gigawuts]

obvious troll account is obvious

either that, or they're just extremely bad at video games