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View Full Version : How do you feel about the AC system?



Jakosifer
Aug 2, 2012, 11:42 AM
I got 3000 AC on release, and I've only spent it on having a Shop. I won't lie, I very much hate the new model of having to shell out real cash for a chance at customizing your character the way you want to. Makeover counter should use meseta. There should also be an actual variety of clothing at the normal shop for it, while having other AC based clothing without having the gacha stuff. One thing about PSU, and especially PSP2/i was customization was simple and sweet, which was one of the strong suits of the series for me. The real cash you spent in PSP2 was fairly low considering you were getting exactly what you wanted.

So pretty much the only thing I dislike about the new system is the Gacha (which could actually be much worse lol), and the makeover counter, which has always been meseta based...being 500AC. Otherwise it isn't that bad.

So how do the wonderful folks of PSO-W feel about it? Love it? Hate it? Don't care? On the fence? In the danger zone?

NoiseHERO
Aug 2, 2012, 11:55 AM
I.. REALLY wish this game was just P2P over all the complications....

Garnet_Moon
Aug 2, 2012, 11:58 AM
The Japanese love gacha. I didn't know they loved digital gacha though... I mean, 5 or 10 years from now when the server dies, what do you have to show for it? People have already spent hundreds of dollars on this system and it's currently still limited to being out for only a month.

God only knows how many rent payments will fall behind when we get better items in the gacha system.

Sizustar
Aug 2, 2012, 12:04 PM
It's one of the most friendly micro-transaction for a MMORPG that I've used, and I played quite a bit of Japanese/Korean/Chinese MMORPG.
Elsword, Pangya, Cosmic Break, SD Gundam, etc.


The Japanese love gacha. I didn't know they loved digital gacha though... I mean, 5 or 10 years from now when the server dies, what do you have to show for it? People have already spent hundreds of dollars on this system and it's currently still limited to being out for only a month.

God only knows how many rent payments will fall behind when we get better items in the gacha system.

The same can be said for any form of entertainment.
What do you have to show by buying CDs that you listen to once, books that you read occassionaly, and DVDs or games that after you beat, you throw it in a pile.
Telling or condoning how other spend their money is a waste of time and comes off as elitist, and doesn't change anything.

Arika
Aug 2, 2012, 12:07 PM
it is a form of business, you really can't expect any great game that actually free for everything.

ellu
Aug 2, 2012, 12:10 PM
It's one of the most friendly micro-transaction for a MMORPG that I've used, and I played quite a bit of Japanese/Korean/Chinese MMORPG.
Elsword, Pangya, Cosmic Break, SD Gundam, etc.



The same can be said for any form of entertainment.
What do you have to show by buying CDs that you listen to once, books that you read occassionaly, and DVDs or games that after you beat, you throw it in a pile.
Telling or condoning how other spend their money is a waste of time and comes off as elitist, and doesn't change anything.You can collect those things, keep them in good condition, and put them on display.

And of course, always use them again or let someone borrow them.

The same can't be said about a game if the servers die. :P

(I agree that it's pointless to tell people what to spend their money on, but I don't think they meant it that way. xD )


it is a form of business, you really can't expect any great game that actually free for everything.

It may be a form of business, but whether it's good or not is what's up for discussion.
I feel like it's be much easier to play a flat rate for everything.

The way it is now, they'd expect me to give them 6 dollars to change my characters hair color. hahaha.

Jakosifer
Aug 2, 2012, 12:23 PM
It may be a form of business, but whether it's good or not is what's up for discussion.

Thank you.
I want to hear your personal opinions on the system and whether you like, hate, don't care, are on the fence, or are in the danger zone or not.

Sizustar
Aug 2, 2012, 12:26 PM
You can collect those things, keep them in good condition, and put them on display.

And of course, always use them again or let someone borrow them.

The same can't be said about a game if the servers die. :P

(I agree that it's pointless to tell people what to spend their money on, but I don't think they meant it that way. xD )

And they still aren't used, and very few people actually "collect" them, and reusing them, only if their still in a usable condition that the owner stored them in a good condition, of if it's a CD game or music, with multiple disk, if you're missing 1 disk, you're in trouble.

Again, you're forcing your standard onto how other spend their money.


I.. REALLY wish this game was just P2P over all the complications....

That's not a real possibility in the current market, as most consumer are expecting freemium or F2P with Freemium, there hasn't been any MMORPG in Asia that came out in the last..2~3 year that I remember charging a monthly fee, the consumer isn't interested in a monthly fee based system, and with the cellphone and tablet app/game that are usually F2P with Freemium/micro transaction, it's just how the market has been growing, thinking of the good old day won't change that.

The Star Wars MMORPG is going F2P soon with micro-transatction, because the majority of their player isn't interested in a monthly fee, but if it's F2P with microtransaction, 40% have said they'de be willing to return.

Garnet_Moon
Aug 2, 2012, 12:37 PM
Not really forcing anything on anybody. Just saying it's a stupid way to spend money. I mean, 10 years from now you can't even hold, sell, or barter it for something else. I'd prefer P2P because at least then I know what I'm getting This freemium stuff is too RNG for me, so I'm happy staying f2p with it.

But what do I know about holding on to or spending money. I recently bought a ducati diavel in cash. :lol:

jooozek
Aug 2, 2012, 12:43 PM
Most ridiculous restrictions I've ever seen in a F2P game, especially foobared when it comes to the paying player base and the free player base interactions (even if you get premium set you can't trade shit with your friend who doesn't feel like paying for the game) all this bullshit because SEGA doesn't want a third party to make money out of their game :-?

Zyrusticae
Aug 2, 2012, 12:45 PM
It may be a form of business, but whether it's good or not is what's up for discussion.
I feel like it's be much easier to play a flat rate for everything.

The way it is now, they'd expect me to give them 6 dollars to change my characters hair color. hahaha.
Well, when you pay for a remodeling ticket you get to change pretty much whatever the hell you want and it still costs the same amount. That's fair by my measure, at least.

I'm not a fan of the gacha and would much prefer to be able to just buy the items I want outright, but on the other hand there are folks with tons of disposable income pouring thousands upon thousands of dollars into those things, subsidizing the game for the rest of us. As far as I'm concerned, as long as I get what I want in the end, it's all gravy.



Most ridiculous restrictions I've ever seen in a F2P game, especially foobared when it comes to the paying player base and the free player base interactions (even if you get premium set you can't trade shit with your friend who doesn't feel like paying for the game) all this bullshit because SEGA doesn't want a third party to make money out of their game :-?Letting premium players trade with free players is kind of a complicated thing to implement, and obviously letting free players trade would be problematic since then you'd have folks sitting in the lobby spamming chat trying to sell items since they can't put things up for sale on the shop. It's not just about the RMT.

Garnet_Moon
Aug 2, 2012, 12:50 PM
you'd have folks sitting in the lobby spamming chat trying to sell items since they can't put things up for sale on the shop. It's not just about the RMT.
*Equip Bikini*
*Start dancing in the lobby*

Hey boys, I'm trying to save up for X weapon that drops in Y area! Maybe you could trade me some tips if you like what you see?

*wink, wink, nudge, nudge, purple monkey dishwasher*

jooozek
Aug 2, 2012, 12:50 PM
Letting premium players trade with free players is kind of a complicated thing to implement, and obviously letting free players trade would be problematic since then you'd have folks sitting in the lobby spamming chat trying to sell items since they can't put things up for sale on the shop. It's not just about the RMT.
Guess what I saw the other day: dude spamming "SELLING GARLAND IN MY SHOP".

Zyrusticae
Aug 2, 2012, 12:51 PM
Yes, and you really want to multiply the number of people spamming similar things? Heh.

JeyKama
Aug 2, 2012, 12:53 PM
PSO2 isn't the only F2P game with strict trade restrictions to combat RMT activity. Don't demonize it just because it apparently happens to be the only one you've played with one.

That being said, it is rather draconian if that's the only reason for it, and most Western games with trading restrictions offer ways to "prove" you're a worthy member of the game economy.

Me, it just annoys me that despite the AC charges in July going through, I gotta go figure out webmoney now...

jooozek
Aug 2, 2012, 12:56 PM
Yes, and you really want to multiply the number of people spamming similar things? Heh.
Just to be able to trade with a friend? Obviously yes. The only way to trade is to buy the goddamn premium set, there is no separate ticket for it like there is for player shops or my room. How do you explain that?

Zyrusticae
Aug 2, 2012, 01:02 PM
Honest oversight? Lack of incentive (how many people actually care about person-to-person trading)? Preference that you'd Man The Fuck Up and pay?

I don't think it really matters, but then, I'm someone who plans on getting the premium set every month...

kkow
Aug 2, 2012, 01:08 PM
plenty of other ways to fight rmt. this is just an example of pure greed, nothing more to see here.

Zyrusticae
Aug 2, 2012, 01:09 PM
Yes, and? They have to make money somehow. Seriously, premium set isn't even that expensive.

The gacha is pure greed, but all this whining about not being able to trade is just seriously getting old. You guys are spoiled.

Polly
Aug 2, 2012, 01:11 PM
AC system is fairly unoffensive on MOST accounts and the game isn't SUPER in your face with it like most free to play games are. You could accomplish pretty much anything you wanted to without ever resorting to AC and there aren't harsh or unfair restrictions on what you can and can't do if you don't pay into the system. I'm a bit disappointed by the prices of things and some of the pricing is downright confusing, but all in all, it's not bad.

AC Scratch/Gacha bullshit though? Fuck you, that's just a load of nonsense.

Sizustar
Aug 2, 2012, 01:13 PM
Yes, and? They have to make money somehow. Seriously, premium set isn't even that expensive.

The gacha is pure greed, but all this whining about not being able to trade is just seriously getting old. You guys are spoiled.

Gacha/Garapon, is a rare seldom used sysstem in English market, but is a common method for Japanese, Chinese and Korean player, as the target audience are familiar with the Garapon and it's been used for other games, not just MMORPG, even Cellphone game and Niconico games.

The worst offender of Garapon/Gacha scratch is SD Capsule Gundam.

Although I think a compromise that Sega can do for people that want Avatar but don't want to shell out the money...

Have a Meseta "rent" system, say... 10k for 15 day, or have people able to "rent" out their unused Avatar outfit?

*Sends Idea to Sega*

jooozek
Aug 2, 2012, 01:14 PM
It doesn't take a genius to destroy this shitty anti-rmt scheme, a farm of chinese can transfer the meseta to the mother account for a measly 6USD through overpricing consumables on the mother account and buying them with the farmers. All it takes to take that to your customer is having the premium set if they have it, or reversing your method of transferring meseta to mother account to requiring them to buy the my shop pass.

And man the fuck up? Seriously? How about SEGA mans the fuck up and notices that their methods cause moor grief than its worth.

Reyva
Aug 2, 2012, 01:27 PM
Eh, compared to all the f2p games I've played in the past years, PSO2 is chump change to them.

Gacha? Lol, to me, its just another lotto system all the F2P games started putting in their games. We just like to call those things "Casinos." Some win big and others go home with nothing but junk. Funny enough though, Segac isn't putting anything game breaking in these things to get lots more people into it.

Sometimes to me, some of the people on these forums have never played other F2P games. Plenty of Americans and so on have paid thousands to get whatever from a lotto item and some get lucky after the first try and get the 1st place prize and others don't.

Premium? Lmao cmon, unless you are a kid who can't get a job or work around the neighborhood, unemployed, or really stuck on cash in general due to bills, paying that little chump change is nothing and you get 30/60/90 days. Geeze, I pay a lot more $ in general towards food. And if you really want to be cheap about things sometimes, just get the my shop and you can just trade cash/items that way lol.

The silly costumes in gacha lol? I don't waste my $ for that, I just buy it with meseta. So hey, I don't have to play PSO2 Casino for my costumes if I want some new costumes and stuff. And since cast parts are cheap as hell, why do I need to pay when I have the meseta for it lol? But at the same time, they are just costumes and aren't worth it to spend my $ on so I just buy with meseta.

So what I'm saying is, I'm pretty happy with their system. I'm getting my $s worth by just buying the premium, extra inventory slots, and skill tree additional slots. So I haven't spent a fortune like some other games and I doubt I will unless they put some "pay to win" items in the gacha and ramp up the difficulty in the game.

Zyrusticae
Aug 2, 2012, 01:45 PM
It doesn't take a genius to destroy this shitty anti-rmt scheme, a farm of chinese can transfer the meseta to the mother account for a measly 6USD through overpricing consumables on the mother account and buying them with the farmers. All it takes to take that to your customer is having the premium set if they have it, or reversing your method of transferring meseta to mother account to requiring them to buy the my shop pass.
What you're missing is the fact that doing it that way leaves a very noticeable paper trail for their anti-RMT team to track and follow. Mind you, most gold farmers are just going to pay for premium set anyways, because it really is chump change. Speaking of...


And man the fuck up? Seriously? How about SEGA mans the fuck up and notices that their methods cause moor grief than its worth.
I don't see the PSO-W forums exploding with anger over the trade restrictions. Do you? :-?

Garnet_Moon
Aug 2, 2012, 01:45 PM
Let someone else break the bank so that I can spend billions of meseta on their tears.

ScottyMango
Aug 2, 2012, 01:47 PM
I agree with Reyva.

To me, it's like this:

If it followed the classic pay-to-play setup, most people would have had to spend around 80-100 dollars so far just to play (buying the game, monthly fee).

With the current free to play system, you don't have to pay for anything unless you want a few more features. In that case you're only spending a few more dollars than you would on a monthly fee, and you didn't even have to buy the game.

So whichever way you look at it, you're spending less money. Why complain about that?

Unless you're addicted to gambling your money away on the almost-useless scratch items..

Kanore
Aug 2, 2012, 01:49 PM
i don't like how i had to purchase a minimum of 500 AC for one MAG that cost 300 AC so i was left with 200 for nothing

jooozek
Aug 2, 2012, 02:06 PM
What you're missing is the fact that doing it that way leaves a very noticeable paper trail for their anti-RMT team to track and follow. Mind you, most gold farmers are just going to pay for premium set anyways, because it really is chump change. Speaking of...
The same trail is left in F2P games that allow trading for everyone. Buy gold from RMTers -> chargeback -> check all the accounts that the account traded with -> ban every trader. That's the proper way of nuking RMTers, F2P that don't allow RMT clearly state that if you participate in buying gold you will get banned. And also, do you know why F2P games are successful? Because they dropped the subscriptions that everyone dreaded, so what were you saying again? :-?

I don't see the PSO-W forums exploding with anger over the trade restrictions. Do you? :-?
That's an ignorant view if you only consider your perspective to only PSO-W forums to be a good sample for this, the game is F2P, something that is apparently available to everyone. I don't know what face will I have to make to tell my friends who just want to try out the game when they will want a small boost (say, some small amount of meseta and a weapon and few units) that they need to spend 16 bucks for me to them to give them.

Let's be honest, the game is really nice and doesn't cather only to former PSO players, it's really nice and polished but those faults are just unforgiveable.

Just so you know, personally, I will be getting additional mags/skill trees, my shop passes and few characters once the game comes out in NA/EU but there is no way I'll ever invest money in that shitty service that is the premium set.

Sizustar
Aug 2, 2012, 02:18 PM
The same trail is left in F2P games that allow trading for everyone. Buy gold from RMTers -> chargeback -> check all the accounts that the account traded with -> ban every trader. That's the proper way of nuking RMTers, F2P that don't allow RMT clearly state that if you participate in buying gold you will get banned. And also, do you know why F2P games are successful? Because they dropped the subscriptions that everyone dreaded, so what were you saying again? :-?

That's an ignorant view if you only consider your perspective to only PSO-W forums to be a good sample for this, the game is F2P, something that is apparently available to everyone. I don't know what face will I have to make to tell my friends who just want to try out the game when they will want a small boost (say, some small amount of meseta and a weapon and few units) that they need to spend 16 bucks for me to them to give them.

Let's be honest, the game is really nice and doesn't cather only to former PSO players, it's really nice and polished but those faults are just unforgiveable.

Just so you know, personally, I will be getting additional mags/skill trees, my shop passes and few characters once the game comes out in NA/EU but there is no way I'll ever invest money in that shitty service that is the premium set.

Well, I also frequent the Chinese/Taiwanese, and Japanese 2ch forum, and the trading...isn't exactly a big issue anyway.
Even in my guild, I've only used it...3 time?

Zyrusticae
Aug 2, 2012, 02:23 PM
The same trail is left in F2P games that allow trading for everyone. Buy gold from RMTers -> chargeback -> check all the accounts that the account traded with -> ban every trader. That's the proper way of nuking RMTers, F2P that don't allow RMT clearly state that if you participate in buying gold you will get banned. And also, do you know why F2P games are successful? Because they dropped the subscriptions that everyone dreaded, so what were you saying again? :-?
It's.... still F2P?

I mean, I don't even get the point of this whole paragraph. What's it matter, really? The game is still F2P and perfectly playable as such, you never have to spend a dime to have a decent experience, so your bitching is just... well, bitching. I don't care what reasoning they have for the trade restrictions (frankly, it's most likely just so they get more folks to pay up), and it's really, really hard for me to see anyone complaining about said restrictions as being anything other than really goddamn cheap, or having an inflated sense of entitlement, or any number of other not-so-nice personality traits.


That's an ignorant view if you only consider your perspective to only PSO-W forums to be a good sample for this, the game is F2P, something that is apparently available to everyone. I don't know what face will I have to make to tell my friends who just want to try out the game when they will want a small boost (say, some small amount of meseta and a weapon and few units) that they need to spend 16 bucks for me to them to give them.
See, the nice thing about this game being F2P is that the above scenario actually happens in the first place. With a P2P game they'd just be SOL because the game would launch with a box fee, which is a much, much bigger price to pay than 16 measly little dollars.

Plus, just giving folks hand-me-downs is just so blasé when you can personally assist them in missions with no penalty to XP or drops.



Let's be honest, the game is really nice and doesn't cather only to former PSO players, it's really nice and polished but those faults are just unforgiveable.

Just so you know, personally, I will be getting additional mags/skill trees, my shop passes and few characters once the game comes out in NA/EU but there is no way I'll ever invest money in that shitty service that is the premium set.
Right... Unforgiveable faults...

Do you even realize what you sound like right now? Because it's a pretty far cry from "sound" and "reasonable"...

VANNO
Aug 2, 2012, 02:23 PM
I don't mind the system. It works, doesn't break my bank, and costumes on the market are Rather cheep, or maybe it's just male costumes. The price for AC is pretty well balance for what you are paying for too.

I always disliked gacha/lotto type things because I have horrible luck, and cus pso2's gacha has 3 options my luck is even worse! So I don't mind everything except gacha cus I'm super bias against it.

The only real problem I see related to AC is that I could spend more AC than meseta. I make more meseta than I use and I would really like to use my meseta on other things beside buffs and shops.

PS: For people complaining about trade. There are "other" ways to get around that.

Jakosifer
Aug 2, 2012, 02:25 PM
Yeah, male characters have it great.

DemonMike
Aug 2, 2012, 02:50 PM
Over all, I don't mind the AC system. I have my criticisms regarding certain items being available through AC only (elemental grinders etc), but it's easy to look over.

What I think many people are overlooking is the fact you only really have to pay what you determine is valid support for the title and the fact that you can play the entire game without time restrictions etc completely free. Think the game is worth $40 to you? Put in $40 through webmoney or something.

There's loads of individual packages available through the shop that help you spend less and get just the things you want, it's pretty consumer friendly until you delve into gachas.

To the people who are still on about F2P still not being allowed to trade, ask yourself this, do you really need it? I mean no offence by saying this, but it really comes across as wanting to have your cake and eat it. I'm on premium, only ever used it once to give some one a moon atomiser. All I really say in your defence though is that normal trading shouldn't be just limited to premium, but should be available in the 'my shop' package as it's technically the same concept.

kkow
Aug 2, 2012, 03:09 PM
if anything i think it's more of a slap in the face to the people who actually buy. premium is fine, but the gachas are just ugh. also mixed feelings about the prices to skill reset, mag reset, blahblah, etcetc.

Ogni-XR21
Aug 2, 2012, 03:13 PM
I think it's a great system. I would never have started a character on the JP server if it was P2P. I also can have a char on the EU/NA server without having to worry about the costs.

While customisation is nice it's just the icing on the cake and not really needed for me to enjoy the game.

ellu
Aug 2, 2012, 05:03 PM
And they still aren't used, and very few people actually "collect" them, and reusing them, only if their still in a usable condition that the owner stored them in a good condition, of if it's a CD game or music, with multiple disk, if you're missing 1 disk, you're in trouble.

Again, you're forcing your standard onto how other spend their money.



Haha, sounds much more like you are. :3

Mystil
Aug 2, 2012, 05:08 PM
Long as it doesn't become anything like PWI's, I'm fine with it.

Mike
Aug 2, 2012, 08:22 PM
Gachas, scratch in this case, are problematic. They exist solely to suck money out of wallets at absurd rates. People pay tens and hundreds of dollars / hundreds and thousands of yen for something that is worth only a small fraction of that. It's a terrible system for consumers and a wonderful system for corporations. The only way to get rid of such a system is to not use it or anything that can be gained from it at all. I don't expect people to be able to exercise that much self control though.


I mean, 5 or 10 years from now when the server dies, what do you have to show for it? People have already spent hundreds of dollars on this system and it's currently still limited to being out for only a month.
Nothing lasts forever so if you use your money and time for something you enjoy, then it is well spent. Unless you're spending it on a gacha. That's just poor judgement.