Help me learn a few things about PSO-2's model, please.

[AmagicalFishy]

Hello, folks.

I've consistently played PSO since Dreamcast. It's one of the best games I've ever played—and I'm very excited for PSO-2. For me, a major disappointment is that it's a "free" game with a cash-shop. I really, really dislike this model—I hate not being able to just buy a game and have access to it as a whole; to be able to start on the same, flat playing-field as everyone else (wherein my success is determined solely by my playing the game). Instead, my level of accessibility and success is largely determined by how much money I put into it.

I've played enough cash-shop games to know this is usually true, and to know that, eventually, most players who stick with the game will pay far more than they would if they had just bought it. Recently, I've very much enjoyed a game by the name of Vindictus. Unfortunately, when one approaches end-game status, the drop rates and success rates become so unreasonable that doing anything w/o spending fairly large amounts of real money is unwise.

I was willing to shove that disappointment aside for PSO-2, though—'til I read of a "Drop Rate" cash-shop item, and this spurred a few questions:

- Are the drop-rates bad enough to necessitate this?
- Has the existence of the cash-shop driven Meseta prices up to be extremely high?
- Are items in the cash-shop mainly one-time purchase items, or do they have a duration/are they expendable?
- Is there stat-changing equipment only attainable via cash-shop? If so, is it game-changing enough to necessitate its purchase?
- How much can one change their own experience if they pay money? That is, how big is the difference between a gamer who pays no money and one who pays it whenever they feel like it?
- Dungeon Defenders and League of Legends are two acceptable cash-shop models. In Dungeon Defenders, one pays for the extra campaigns (but gets all the features that come with it). Consider it a game-expansion—since it's an indie game, its campaign comes out in segments. I payed $12 for the game, and $12 for the "Eternia Shards" expansion. Also, I payed $5 for access to two new classes. With both of these purchases, though, I had access to everything. That is, the game wasn't compartmentalized to a point where success was proportionate to money spent. There was a cap on the money you could spend, because after buying certain things, there was no more you could buy because you had access to the whole game. In League of Legends, the cash-shop is 95% aesthetic. You buy different skins for different champions. There are some other conveniences (more rune-pages, etc.) but none of those really change your game-play or give you an advantage. Does the PSO-2 cash-shop resemble either of these games? Or does it moreso resemble a typical Korean/Japanese "free" game? (Games like Vindictus, GunZ, Gunbound, Maplestory, etc.; think Nexon and Ijji games).
- For purposes of ease, we'll put the above cash-shop models on a gradient; call the two ends Western and Eastern. To what extent does the PSO-2 shop resemble a Western-game cash-shop and to what extent does it resemble an Eastern-game cash-shop?

If possible, I'd like these answered by people who've played PSO extensively; that way I know we're at least coming from a relatively similar background. I'm sorry to be so critical, but games have changed very much lately and I'd like to do my proper research before spending the time to immerse myself in one.

I'm aware that the cash-shop could change when PSO-2 comes to the West.

I haven't followed this community much in the past couple of years, but—while I understand the importance of semantics in any conversation (to communicate effectively, it's necessary we have similar definitions for words), please don't argue about the differences of extent in words like "necessitate" or "game-changing". If you're unsure about whether or not something necessitates something else, or an item is game-changing enough that its absence in your inventory is a bad decision—then answer the questions, but be explicit about the extent of definition you're using, even if it's expressed in an anecdotal manner. :)

I very much appreciate the time anyone spends in reading this and answering the questions. I understand that the game is only released in Japan right now, so the ability to fully understand the game's mechanics is hindered by the language barrier.

Thanks, everyone.

(Upon writing this post, I thought it might be a good idea to include a poll. Please, answer the questions as you would if there wasn't a poll—it's just there as a kind of reference; a quick means of comparing numbers.)

[Sizustar]

Or...You can try the game yourself and see how it is...

And there's already been a similiar topic yesterday
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199242

[AmagicalFishy]

Please, avoid posts like the above. If you'd rather not contribute to the thread, then don't post anything.

[RocSage]

- Are the drop-rates bad enough to necessitate this?


No



- Has the existence of the cash-shop driven Meseta prices up to be extremely high?


No



- Are items in the cash-shop mainly one-time purchase items, or do they have a duration/are they expendable?


This has been answered enough time so you can go search for that even though the answer is likely shorter than this sentence.



- Is there stat-changing equipment only attainable via cash-shop? If so, is it game-changing enough to necessitate its purchase?


No and No



- How much can one change their own experience if they pay money? That is, how big is the difference between a gamer who pays no money and one who pays it whenever they feel like it?


Not much.



- Dungeon Defenders and League of Legends are two acceptable cash-shop models. In Dungeon Defenders, one pays for the extra campaigns (but gets all the features that come with it). Consider it a game-expansion—since it's an indie game, its campaign comes out in segments. I payed $12 for the game, and $12 for the "Eternia Shards" expansion. Also, I payed $5 for access to two new classes. With both of these purchases, though, I had access to everything. That is, the game wasn't compartmentalized to a point where success was proportionate to money spent. There was a cap on the money you could spend, because after buying certain things, there was no more you could buy because you had access to the whole game. In League of Legends, the cash-shop is 95% aesthetic. You buy different skins for different champions. There are some other conveniences (more rune-pages, etc.) but none of those really change your game-play or give you an advantage. Does the PSO-2 cash-shop resemble either of these games? Or does it moreso resemble a typical Korean/Japanese "free" game? (Games like Vindictus, GunZ, Gunbound, Maplestory, etc.; think Nexon and Ijji games).


I don't feel like reading all that tripe so I don't know, but from the sentence or two I did read the answer is no.



- For purposes of ease, we'll put the above cash-shop models on a gradient; call the two ends Western and Eastern. To what extent does the PSO-2 shop resemble a Western-game cash-shop and to what extent does it resemble an Eastern-game cash-shop?


You're being dumb. Stop.



If possible, I'd like these answered by people who've played PSO extensively; that way I know we're at least coming from a relatively similar background. I'm sorry to be so critical, but games have changed very much lately and I'd like to do my proper research before spending the time to immerse myself in one.


... You don't research games before you waste peoples' time asking questions about stuff that have been answered countless times or could be answered by a modicum of looking up the information yourself. Your lack the ability to operate the search button sets us in completely different categories so no I don't come from the same background as you because I would have done the because people like you annoy me, but I have played PSO since day 1, PSO-X, PSOBB, PSU, and play PSO2 currently.

And please don't call yourself critical. Critical people do research before asking to make sure they aren't wasting peoples' times.

Your welcome.

[Ce'Nedra]

Please, avoid posts like the above. If you'd rather not contribute to the thread, then don't post anything.

Welcome to PSO-World. Better get used to it~

[Shadowth117]

Sizustar has a point, but I suppose I could try to explain it to you anyway.

Essentially there is still a premium in this game, despite it being a supposed F2P. This "Premium Set", as they call it, allows you to sell items in your shop (you can buy without this still), go to your character's room, trade with other players directly, use an extra premium storage, and use premium blocks. Its definitely not necessary to play with this though.

There is also the AC shop as I'm sure you've somewhat heard of. This allows you to buy various items. That would be these:
Arks Cash List

プレミアムセット30日 Premium Set 30 days | 1300 AC
プレミアムセット60日 Premium Set 60 days | 2500 AC
プレミアムセット90日 Premium Set 90 Days | 3600 AC
マイルーム利用30日 My Room 30 Days Use | 700 AC
マイショップ出店30日 My Shop 30 Days Use | 700 AC
拡張倉庫(#)利用30日 Expanded Storage 30 Days | 500 AC
拡張倉庫(#)利用90日 Expanded Storage 90 Days | 1200 AC
アイテムパック拡張10 Item Pack Expansion +10 | 350AC
アイテムパック拡張10 5個 5xItem Pack Expansion + 10 | 1600 AC
スキルツリー追加パス Additional Skill Tree Pass | 500 AC
追加ツリーリセットパス Skill Tree Reset Pass (For Additional Skill Tree) | 1000 AC
マグ獲得チケット Additional Mag Ticket 300 AC
マグリセットデバイス Mag Reset Device | 500 AC
エステ利用パス Aesthetics (Makeup Counter) Pass | 500 AC
追加キャラクター作成権 Additional Character | 500 AC
スケープドール Scape Doll | 150 AC
スケープドール 3個 Scape Doll x3 | 400 AC
スケープドール 5個 Scape Doll x6 | 600 AC
コスモアトマイザー 3個 Cosmo Atomizer x3 | 400 AC
コスモアトマイザー 5個 Cosmo Atomizer x6 | 600 AC
獲得経験値＋100％（3個）EXP Boost+100% x3 | 500 AC
獲得経験値＋100％（10個）EXP Boost+100% x10 | 1600 AC

AC translates evenly to yen for reference.

While there are some interesting things in there, the only thing that I'd really consider getting ever other than premium are the permanent inventory expansions so you have 100 slots rather than 50. However the other items are hardly necessary most of the time unless you want say another MAG. No you cannot find scape dolls anywhere else, but it is usually possible to go back to the campship (Pre Mission Lobby) and go right back to where you were.

And then there's the scratch offs. These have varying content from week to week and are also the only places currently where you can find drop boost tickets, aside from promotional things (Sega just gave 2 50% drop boosts recently to anyone who purchased a certain amount of AC before a certain date).

You can have a very nice experience without AC for sure. However as you go on, you may want to use the player shops to sell rarer items. Most of the time though, you probably won't worry about that. Right now you make the majority of your money NPCing items you find.

So yeah, hopefully that covers your questions.

[eharima]

It's not a 'Pay to win' model like you make out.

Unfortunatly you cannot actually BUY straight outright rare drop and meseta boosters, (unless you use net cafe in JP) they are rewarded as a bonus for now, I hope this changes in the future.

Drop rates are in line with the ammount of current players (i speak for ship 2 only)
cash shop items are more exp[ensive than what you can sell them for in the aution house, par a fue exceptions, PLUs the SCRATCH system is a fucking joke imo.
200yen for a fucking grinder.
there are small stat changing item in cash shop, such as attribute enhancing boosters of 5% chance or reduced grind faliure chance. (imo this should be P2W buy straight like exp boosters)
if you buy premium, you have better access, its not game changing, you could buy every other month and not notice the difference really, see the premium packs.

Ive never played 'western' pay to win/play models, but Ive played many eastern P2P P2W models and this is a light touch in comparison,

Hopefully they change ther scratch system, or at least make more lists of fewer items, currently having one list of 60 items and one list of just costumes is terrible, and Im not paying into it untill we get better lists or net cafe style shop items.

but yeah, its free to play, have a go, and if you feel you need to use my room or my shop, then buy some AC. if not then buy my stuff from the auction house like the free loading moocher you are !! :D

[Omisan]

I seem to notice that AC is mostly for buying costumes and a room to decorate. That is mostly it.

[AmagicalFishy]

Thanks for your help, everyone. :) Any continued participation in this thread is similarly be appreciated. The more responses, the better—I always like to read as many opinions on a matter like this as possible.

It seems much like a toned-down Eastern-Game cash-shop so far, as unanimous voters have confirmed, haha.

I've been looking into grinders, too, which seem to have taken a turn in a direction for the worst (though I never played PSU). It looks like they're now more similar to Vindictus enhance-stones, which works like this:

There's a 100% chance to get to +3
75% chance to get to +4, 5; failure results in a downgrade.
50% chance to get to +6, 7, 8; failure results in enhance rate dropping to zero.
40% chance to +9, +10; failure results in weapon breaking.
Each failure results in a permanent durability loss of 3. Each successful upgrade results in a temporary durability gain of 3. That means trying too much on one weapon has a very small chance of fruiting a great weapon, or a much larger chance of screwing it up and forcing you to buy/craft a new one.

Though the highest level in Vindictus is +15, which is nigh impossible to get, as opposed to... +10? (Excuse the Vindictus references. My brother and I began playing it a couple of months ago when we [finally] got bored of PSO, and the reason we chose it is for its similarities.)

I may just be a cynic in matters like this, but it seems systems like that are set up to make monetizing various in-game items easier (in the case of Vindictus, one can buy "enhancment runes" that break instead of your weapon for about $3 each). I can understand the presentation of a risk when upgrading weapons, but I really dislike game mechanics which effectively waste hours of your game play. What might be better is to lower the success rates, eliminate weapon durability loss/weapon resetting (it seems like there's this in PSO-2), and charge a scaled meseta-fee for each upgrade attempt. :-? I dunno. Just speculation.

... Ah, perhaps I've entered the realm of complaining and exited the one of information-gathering.

[Sizustar]

Thanks for your help, everyone. :) Any continued participation in this thread is similarly be appreciated. The more responses, the better—I always like to read as many opinions on a matter like this as possible.

It seems much like a toned-down Eastern-Game cash-shop so far, as unanimous voters have confirmed, haha.

I've been looking into grinders, too, which seem to have taken a turn in a direction for the worst (though I never played PSU). It looks like they're now more similar to Vindictus enhance-stones, which works like this:

There's a 100% chance to get to +3
75% chance to get to +4, 5; failure results in a downgrade.
50% chance to get to +6, 7, 8; failure results in enhance rate dropping to zero.
40% chance to +9, +10; failure results in weapon breaking.
Each failure results in a permanent durability loss of 3. Each successful upgrade results in a temporary durability gain of 3. That means trying too much on one weapon has a very small chance of fruiting a great weapon, or a much larger chance of screwing it up and forcing you to buy/craft a new one.

Though the highest level in Vindictus is +15, which is nigh impossible to get, as opposed to... +10? (Excuse the Vindictus references. My brother and I began playing it a couple of months ago when we [finally] got bored of PSO, and the reason we chose it is for its similarities.)

I may just be a cynic in matters like this, but it seems systems like that are set up to make monetizing various in-game items easier (in the case of Vindictus, one can buy "enhancment runes" that break instead of your weapon for about $3 each). I can understand the presentation of a risk when upgrading weapons, but I really dislike game mechanics which effectively waste hours of your game play. What might be better is to lower the success rates, eliminate weapon durability loss/weapon resetting (it seems like there's this in PSO-2), and charge a scaled meseta-fee for each upgrade attempt. :-? I dunno. Just speculation.

... Ah, perhaps I've entered the realm of complaining and exited the one of information-gathering.

Failure in Grinding doesn't reduce any stat of the weapon, nor does it break it.
Which can be seen if you tried the game, or read through the forum.
The only thing that "break" weapon, is when you use it as a material to slot ability into a main weapon.
And the upgrade prevention break item, isn't that expensive, as in ship-2, they sell for 150~200k, and that's about...1 full item run on Hard, 2 on Normal?
And increasing chance is only 5%, most people just don't use it.

Again, play the game, it's easier to experience it first hand, instead of relying on 2nd or 3rd hand source of information.

[jooozek]

Failure in Grinding doesn't reduce any stat of the weapon, nor does it break it. (...)
I think we are playing different games - at certain points of grinding your weapon can go back up to 3 grinds down and that is a stat reduction.

[Sizustar]

I think we are playing different games - at certain points of grinding your weapon can go back up to 3 grinds down and that is a stat reduction.

But if you reach the same upgrade, it's the same.
As I understood the question, based on durability and reducing Max/Min stat in failure of his example, that is not how it works in PSO2.

[JeyKama]

As a game designer in training, this sort of post is interesting to me. I'm not certain what your motive is in asking this sort of stuff, but here goes.


For me, a major disappointment is that it's a "free" game with a cash-shop. I really, really dislike this model—I hate not being able to just buy a game and have access to it as a whole; to be able to start on the same, flat playing-field as everyone else (wherein my success is determined solely by my playing the game). Instead, my level of accessibility and success is largely determined by how much money I put into it.

You may dislike it, but there are generally two large barriers which dissuade people from playing games. 1) box price and 2) subscriptions. For AAA games, the IP and hype sell the product, so they can charge $60 just because they can (fuck you Activision). MMOs used to charge subscriptions, but that came with the expectation of constant, quality updates. See the fall of SWTOR on the price of the subscription model.

PSO2 has neither, meaning that there are no barriers to entry (other than language) and their design goal was to have the entire functional game available without paying a cent.

In this they have largely succeeds - the game is fully playable with no restrictions, and that by itself is pretty amazing considering other F2P games.



I've played enough cash-shop games to know this is usually true, and to know that, eventually, most players who stick with the game will pay far more than they would if they had just bought it. Recently, I've very much enjoyed a game by the name of Vindictus. Unfortunately, when one approaches end-game status, the drop rates and success rates become so unreasonable that doing anything w/o spending fairly large amounts of real money is unwise.

PSO2 is different - free players and paying players have no real differences in drop rates. The only real advantage paying players have on the field is rare item boosts from AC Scratch (free players can get lesser versions from the free scratch, I think) and they only last 30 minutes anyway.

As for success rates though, you just need tons of capitol for that. Free players have only their own grinded meseta to use, while paying players have access to shops and thus can accumulate much more. There's nothing stopping a free player from getting a +10 rare weapon with mizer soul/shoot v, it'll just take a lot more luck and time than a paying player would (in geeeeeneral).



- Are the drop-rates bad enough to necessitate this?
Cash shop doesn't have anything that will boost gameplay, other than some relatively minor grinding materials. Everything that can boost your chances of getting rare drops is available to everyone, except certain AC Scratch boosts which are a little better than the FUN scratch versions... but only last 30 minutes anyway (big deal)


- Has the existence of the cash-shop driven Meseta prices up to be extremely high?
Not sure what you mean by this - usually currency inflation occurs because of bot farming or duping. If you want that bathing suit for your chick toon starting from 0 meseta, you're only limited by how long you want to farm. There're people who play the market, sure, but for the most part, prices seem pretty manageable.


- Are items in the cash-shop mainly one-time purchase items, or do they have a duration/are they expendable?
Mix of both. EXP Boosts are 30 minutes each, inventory slots/mags/skill-trees are permanent (per character). Pretty sure no one uses scape dolls (except me, when I got really pissed at the boosted story dragon) or cosmo atomizers.



- Is there stat-changing equipment only attainable via cash-shop? If so, is it game-changing enough to necessitate its purchase?
No.



- How much can one change their own experience if they pay money? That is, how big is the difference between a gamer who pays no money and one who pays it whenever they feel like it?
The major difference is having a player shop which allows you to sell off all those rares and stuff with good affixes you can't/won't use, in order to fund boosting your own arsenal (or buy bathing suits... ymmv). Having that freedom is a pretty huge difference imo.
If you buy premium you also get the extra 200 bank slots for the duration which is nice, and a myroom for people like me who like having somewhere nice to chill and actually DO something with all those room items you get.



- Dungeon Defenders and League of Legends are two acceptable cash-shop models. In Dungeon Defenders, one pays for the extra campaigns (but gets all the features that come with it). ...In League of Legends, the cash-shop is 95% aesthetic. You buy different skins for different champions. There are some other conveniences (more rune-pages, etc.) but none of those really change your game-play or give you an advantage. Does the PSO-2 cash-shop resemble either of these games?

It's more like LoL's cash shop for the vanity part, except instead of directly buying skins, you pay a set amount that randomly picks what skin you get. The convenience stuff you just pay for, like LoL. There are some items you can get via the lottery thing, but they are consumables and not really overpowering.

As for weapon grinding, it's pretty unoffensive (other than the dude who does your grinding). You'll never do any permanent harm to your main weapon. You'll experience some mood swings and turbulence, but yeah.

[SolRiver]

I didn't know there is an "eastern cash shop" and a "western cash shop"....

[erehwoN]

I didn't know there is an "eastern cash shop" and a "western cash shop"....
Ho hum...
Western=$70 for a monocle.
Eastern=Random chance.

If you wanna take the extreme examples that is.
Or even better! Champions Online. It used to have a "western" cash shop. Which after the developers got bought by Perfect World got turned into a "eastern" cash shop.
Before: Not that many P2W items. And no random chance bags.
After: Plenty of both.

[Inazuma]

If you decide to play PSO2 regularly, you will pretty much feel forced to spend some money doubling your inventory capacity, which is a one time cost deal. However, you will also have to pay the monthly $16 subscription fee which is called the premium set. This removes a bunch of restrictions that would bother you otherwise.

That stuff aside, the main issue is the AC scratch. There are many items (mostly clothing) that don't drop in the game normally and can only be gotten by paying money (at first, at least). You pay a few bucks and get one random item. These items can be traded or sold to other players, which means they can be gotten without spending real money. However it also makes the game pay to win, since you can spend real money to indirectly obtain as much meseta and items as you want.

Despite all of this bullshit, PSO2 is a lot of fun. Try it for yourself and figure out if you think it's worth playing.

tl;dr
PSO2 is a super fun game, despite being expensive and pay to win. If you can afford it and can tolerate the cash shop/pay to win bullshit, there is a ton of enjoyment to be had.

[Zyrusticae]

THERE IS NO PAY TO WIN IN PSO2.

Pay to win is ONLY when a paying player can gain access to items or abilities with a noticeable advantage that a non-paying player can never attain through normal gameplay.

Boosts are not pay-to-win, they are convenience items. Even the grinding boosts/risk mitigators only improve the odds (and even then, only marginally so); they do not remove the chance of failure entirely. It is not possible to gain high-level rares through AC.

Buying items with AC to sell for meseta is the equivalent of buying gold/meseta with real money, with the noticeable exception that it requires you use the in-game market and that your real money actually goes to the developers rather than an unlicensed third party. It is still not pay-to-win because it only lets you attain money faster than someone who spends no money would, but otherwise does not give you any impossibly-huge advantage (as is proven by the case of one player who attained 40 million meseta entirely through selling well-grinded rares in-game).

And for that matter, there is no PvP in the game, so wtf you bitchin' about?

[gigawuts]

THERE IS NO PAY TO WIN IN PSO2.

Pay to win is ONLY when a paying player can gain access to items or abilities with a noticeable advantage that a non-paying player can never attain through normal gameplay.

Boosts are not pay-to-win, they are convenience items. Even the grinding boosts/risk mitigators only improve the odds (and even then, only marginally so); they do not remove the chance of failure entirely. It is not possible to gain high-level rares through AC.

Buying items with AC to sell for meseta is the equivalent of buying gold/meseta with real money, with the noticeable exception that it requires you use the in-game market and that your real money actually goes to the developers rather than an unlicensed third party. It is still not pay-to-win because it only lets you attain money faster than someone who spends no money would, but otherwise does not give you any impossibly-huge advantage (as is proven by the case of one player who attained 40 million meseta entirely through selling well-grinded rares in-game).

And for that matter, there is no PvP in the game, so wtf you bitchin' about?

To me pay to win can also be when five bucks buys a month's worth of work, but you know that's just me.

[Zyrusticae]

It is rather fortunate, then, that five bucks cannot buy you a month's worth of work in this game.

For that matter, it is more likely that five bucks will get you nil. As in nothing. With the way the scratch works, and the inability to directly sell AC shop items, you are very unlikely to make much meseta that way.

(In fact, I venture that you have to spend at least a hundred real dollars before you start to see any return on your investment.)

[gigawuts]

Sure, not this game. But you can't say it's only pay to win if you buy things that can't be otherwise obtained.

And FORGET AC scratch, that shit's a con. Do consider the fortunes you can get with My Shop though. Takes work and a bit of market research, yes, so not really pay to win, but still something that you're charged for and you gain considerably more e-money for only a bit more work on top of playing without my shop.

I personally consider premium just a subscription fee, and PSO2's model of F2P is one of my favorite kinds. The free part is basically a very open ended demo. You're restricted from doing things, but not nearly as much as standard demos, and PSO2's free part is much better than many F2P games. You gain access to more content by paying, but not silly bonuses.

Scape dolls need to be free though. Maybe a ton of meseta, I don't care, having that cost real life money is just bad.

[TaigaUC]

Didn't fully read through this thread, but I'll just write a quick summary:

This game can be played without spending money, but:
- There's little room for mistakes in setting up your character, it costs money to correct those mistakes
- Some artificial inconveniences can be alleviated through cash purchases (eg. multiple characters, storage limitations with clunky UI, ability to sell/trade with others) but can usually be worked around with patience
- Various ways to work around dying in combat, so you don't have to buy cash revival
- Most cash items can be bought by free players (so they can be as strong as paying players) but requires a lot of in-game money
- Paying players can earn money more easily by obtaining lottery rares and selling items to other players, but this is can cost a lot of real money
- Like many games, the prices on the cash shop are designed to make you spend a little more in order to make maximum use of your investment
- Upgrade system is designed to be an in-game money sink, whether you spend cash money or not
- You are allowed to make multiple accounts, but there are advantages and disadvantages to that (ie. not having to pay for some things, but having to pay multiple times if you want other things)

I'm sure some of these will change as the game develops. It will be interesting to see how changes like sub-classes affect incentive to use the cash shop.

[Tenlade]

It's sort of an indirect pay to win, in that the money you can get from player shops could help, but players have a chance of obtaining a myshop patch from a FUN scratch as well.

There are 2x exp ,meseta and drop tickets, but oddly enough they are designed in a way that they really don't give you an advantage. xp boosts do not affect client orders which are a much larger form of xp gain compared to grinding, and meseta drops even at 2x, are pathetic(3 meseta from a rappy? oh boy, 34 more drops of that and I can buy a single monomate!)

Since there is no endgame yet, no pvp or anything really where having an advantage over another player would really give you, all they can really offer is stuff that lets you grind faster, which since there's a low level cap, is pointless.

[AmagicalFishy]

JayKama, my purpose in asking these questions is that, I've always been a big fan of PSO, but I'd rather not spend large amounts of time immersing myself in a game only to find out that it's Pay-to-Win (a thing usually not discovered 'til you're a "high end" player in the game). This has happened with several games, whether I joined them like that or they became that during my playing them. This similarly addresses people who say, "Play the game yourself." If I planned to play the game without knowing the answers to these questions—I wouldn't have made this thread.

On another note, I believe the prominent factor in this cash-shop model is that it's more profitable—not that box-prices and/or subscription fees would somehow hinder the progression and development of the game. That is, I'm sure Sega would do absolutely fine putting the whole game out for $60. That's a different discussion, though. :D

From what everyone has said so far, PSO-2 doesn't seem to be Pay-to-Win enough to stop me from playing it when it's released Western-side. The fact that one can effectively use real money to gain an increase in their Meseta is something I've always found distasteful, though.

To me, I really like this definition of Pay-to-Win:

Pay to win is ONLY when a paying player can gain access to items or abilities with a noticeable advantage that a non-paying player can never [or would otherwise have a very hard time] attaining through normal gameplay.
The bolded part in brackets I added—it addresses aspects of games which the non-paying player technically has access to, but trying to gain access to it w/o paying real money is usually a waste of time. Edit: (For example, if upgrading an item to a certain level was possible—but very unlikely—and buying a certain item increased the chances of upgrading it successfully by a lot, I would consider that a Pay-to-Win aspect).

[Forcer]

I still didnt buy any AC and for now and i have no need for it

it sucks i cant sell some itens and i would like to go to my room but for now im ok and well thats just it

obviously if theres a need to make a second mag or to re arrange some stats its needed to buy it but it isnt that big of a deal

the AC is more to have some more enjoyment in some aspects of the game and to correct some mistakes, it aint to make you better then the others (ex. Perfect World)

also i still didnt have patience to read a guide on how to buy AC xD

[oifjustus]

Nah.. This game is Pay 2 Secks.. I'm willing to bet 90% of AC goes to scratches for clothing..