Any forces at lvl cap and without PP Charge Revival?

[jooozek]

Been wondering if someone considered not getting, if you skipped it, what did you go instead for?

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Been wondering if someone considered not getting, if you skipped it, what did you go instead for?

What else are you gonna spend your points on? Ice/Bolt Mastery?

[Gardios]

I'm 39 without it... because I haven't skilled anything. :V That doesn't count, does it?

[jooozek]

Well, you got to level 39 without it so it kinda counts!

[Coatl]

I'm 39 without it... because I haven't skilled anything. :V That doesn't count, does it?

How would you..!!
why would you the...?!

Nevermind...my head hurts just thinking about it... :c

[Zyrusticae]

I have one build without it. Put all the points into Bolt Mastery and Tech JA Advance.

Hits hard. I still prefer the Charge PP Revival build for tech spam, though. I have maxed Bolt PP Save on that one - it's just ridiculous. I can charge-spam non-stop for 10 lightning techs. Only the bosses can survive a barrage of that magnitude!

[Xaeris]

I have one Force build without Charge. It's a relic from when I had no idea what I was doing and put 6 points into Freeze Ignition and 10 into the skill that ups Freeze chance. She was a walking blizzard of death with Photon Flare active, but there's still no comparison to the second Force she now has with Charge.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

How would you..!!
why would you the...?!

Nevermind...my head hurts just thinking about it... :c

Probably turned in client orders on force and levelled that way.

[Chik'Tikka]

gonna start a force tonight or tomorrow, I'm going only for bolt mastery+^_^+ it just looks right for the kinda style i play, if anything I'll just remember to buy some Photon charges cosmos+^_^+

[jooozek]

Probably turned in client orders on force and levelled that way.
That could work but then again, repeatables give shit XP and on top of that, client orders are scalled with the level of class receiving the rewards.

[Shadowth117]

That could work but then again, repeatables give shit XP and on top of that, client orders are scalled with the level of class receiving the rewards.

A lot of them give better XP than their counterparts. I mean if you go and do a 10 5000 XP ones say than that's 25k XP you don't have to get from grinding crap missions. I leveled Ranger to 40 almost completely from that. My hunter is lv 30 and I can say the same for that. That's not even counting the ones that give you around 10,000 just for gathering silly items from a certain area (ex 30 items from mines enemies).

Back to the question at hand, it seems really dumb not to have PP Charge Revival in a normal Force build right now. Its convenience is ridiculous and it honestly feels completely different playing without it.

[supersonix9]

What else are you gonna spend your points on? Ice/Bolt Mastery?

Implying that Boly Mastery is useless?

I think Gizonde begs to differ on that one mate.

[Lyrah]

Implying that Boly Mastery is useless?

I think Gizonde begs to differ on that one mate.

Its not useless, but rafoie is much better at vaporizing trash in 2 secs

[sugarFO]

I have a fire tree and a lightning tree but I always made sure to get Charge PP Revival for each one. I can't imagine going without it. Sometimes the little extra PP recovered lets you get off a quick Resta when needed!

[Gardios]

Probably turned in client orders on force and levelled that way.

Nope, leveled him "normally". The only reason he's not 40 is because I don't want to see EXP FULL the whole time when grinding for the inevitable Lv 50 cap CO. lol

Only reason I haven't skilled anything is because I'm waiting for the autumn update that comes with a light skill tree... maybe. Probably not. Oh well. D:

[UnLucky]

I have one build without it. Put all the points into Bolt Mastery and Tech JA Advance.

Hits hard. I still prefer the Charge PP Revival build for tech spam, though. I have maxed Bolt PP Save on that one - it's just ridiculous. I can charge-spam non-stop for 10 lightning techs. Only the bosses can survive a barrage of that magnitude!

How much max PP do you have? Zonde spells have higher costs to counteract the PP save skill so it's not so amazing

You can still get Charge PP, max each of Bolt Mastery, PP Save and JA Advance (or Charge Advance). What other tree did you spend your points in? T-Atk Up?

[_Nue]

I've done Ice Mastery and learned it wasn't the right choice. Sure Photon Flare does a decent boost, but at what cost? Flame Mastery is where all the damage is.

[gigawuts]

I've done Ice Mastery and learned it wasn't the right choice. Sure Photon Flare does a decent boost, but at what cost? Flame Mastery is where all the damage is.

This is why I wish that the same way hunters have JA bonus to reward timing, and rangers have weak hit up to reward aiming, that forces had element weakness bonuses.

Hitting vol dragons should not be almost universally more effective than hitting them with barta, I mean come on. So barta freezes. Hooray. Foie hits harder with every hit, which is generally more useful.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Nope, leveled him "normally". The only reason he's not 40 is because I don't want to see EXP FULL the whole time when grinding for the inevitable Lv 50 cap CO. lol

Only reason I haven't skilled anything is because I'm waiting for the autumn update that comes with a light skill tree... maybe. Probably not. Oh well. D:

Oh god...

Dude, it's only 500 AC for an additional skill tree you know?

[GoldenFalcon]

I've done Ice Mastery and learned it wasn't the right choice. Sure Photon Flare does a decent boost, but at what cost? Flame Mastery is where all the damage is.

When they release the ice version of Grants (impaling enemies with 10 or so ice spears from above) you'll be happy and do more damage than fire techs
except they still get charge advance

[Gardios]

Oh god...

Dude, it's only 500 AC for an additional skill tree you know?

Leveling wasn't bad at all, though! I mean, yeah, damage would've gone quite a bit, but you can't miss what you never had, right? :-P

[Zyrusticae]

How much max PP do you have? Zonde spells have higher costs to counteract the PP save skill so it's not so amazing

You can still get Charge PP, max each of Bolt Mastery, PP Save and JA Advance (or Charge Advance). What other tree did you spend your points in? T-Atk Up?
Only 100 :p And yes, I max out T-Atk 1 in every single one of my skill builds (I have four right now). I like how it scales up my damage with Shifta Drink + Shifta.

Zonde spells are the cheapest in the entire game with maxed PP Save - 15 per Zonde, 18 per Gizonde compared to 20 for Foie/Rafoie/Barta or 25 for Gifoie/Gibarta/Rabarta (btw, Rafoie is clearly underpriced), so I think it's sp well-spent. It's just kind of silly being able to rattle off spells one after the other like that.

[Zorafim]

I leveled until 35 with ice. Gave up when I fought the Banther. PP regen allows you to get so much more out of your Photon Blast and PP regen mag skill. So much so, that the PB went from useless (five more bartas. yay.) to amazing (non-stop rafoie spam!).

The only problem? I'm a water sprite that burns things. That's just silly.


Still, makes me wonder. Is it better to do pure fire, or hybrid fire/thunder? Fire/thunder allows you to burn fire weak bosses, and stun thunder weak bosses, while also allowing you to hit the weakness of almost any enemy in the game. Weakness is, what, 25% extra damage? Then each fire/thunder attack should do, at lv5 boost, 13% more damage? And if you spend the rest of the points on either charge boost or JA boost, that should be 10% more damage. That would be 55% more damage, assuming correct element (only 25% against dragon enemies). This is assuming you go for the elemental tech bonuses (decreased fire charge time, decreased thunder PP cost), then percentage damage boost.

Pure fire allows you to boost your damage by 45% if you pick up all the percentage based boosts on the fire side, and not including the weakness you hit for against half the enemies in the game. Including weakness, it's 80% more damage (assuming 25% boost).

Fire is useful at least half the time during a level (all the time in forest, and the only place the ever present darkers aren't weak against fire is in the tundra, which has fire weak enemies), so I want to say it's useful 60% of the time (5 levels, split into two groups (native/darker) makes ten. Of those ten groups, six are weak against fire). Fire/thunder is only not useful against dragons, so it's useful 90% of the time. This means, overall, fire will do 53% more damage, while fire/thunder does 52% more damage.

I guess the ability to weaken a boss is more useful than a 1% boost, so a thunder/fire hybrid build would be more useful. But, my 25% boost may be wrong. Let me know if it is, so I can rework the maths.

Oh, yeah. And ice is DpS loss.

[GoldenFalcon]

I leveled until 35 with ice.

Oh, yeah. And ice is DpS loss.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?plugin=ref&page=Comments%2F%E3%83%86%E3%82%AF%E3%83%8B%E3%83% 83%E3%82%AF%2F%E3%83%86%E3%82%AF%E3%83%8B%E3%83%83 %E3%82%AF%E7%B3%BB&src=%E6%B0%B704mini.gif

[Dinosaur]

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Sabarta?

[Zyrusticae]

Wow.

That -barta spell just looks cruel!

[Zorafim]

Worth the DpS loss.

[drizzle]

I have a Flame tree and a Bolt tree atm. Both just focused on a single element in the trees. A hybrid build would be better DPS but...
Anyway. Bolt tree is good. the downsides compared to the Flame tree are that you're mostly limited to Bolt technics since most of your talents don't work on anything else, and there's no casting speed boost. Bolt techs with just PP Save are only slightly less spammable than Flame techs with PP Revival.
This is what makes the Flame tree the best one right now, but Bolt isn't that far behind. If this tree gets a -50% charge time talent, we'll be spamming Gizonde instead of Rafoie everywhere.

[Jonth]

Only reason I haven't skilled anything is because I'm waiting for the autumn update that comes with a light skill tree... maybe. Probably not. Oh well. D:

I mean you could be right and all, but I personally think the light skill tree will be on the "Techer" sub class skill tree.

[jooozek]

Whoever managed to "acquire" that should have had a half decent PC so we could see it in non-crap quality.
It looks more like a poor job in MS Paint :-D

[SPOnion]

The true value of Ice tree lies in making a party NPC...you won't care about the damage anyway and NPCs don't have to worry about PP. Still, even as conditioning inflicting NPC, shock tree does much better than ice since NPCs don't know how to use a card dispenser to land that AOE...

[Omega-z]

I don't have PP revival and I'm a 40. It's not needed at the moment and didn't want to go into easy mode with force. It's not that hard to hit things to get PP anyway's. And even if it's more unsafe I have that covered since I can tank in more damage compared to norm. Damage is fine and is scaling with the monster's can hit for 1K-3K still even with a Cast. The biggest difference is just speed if anything.

[Ana-Chan]

I'm wondering how much of the "anything but fire is usless" when higher levels get added. First there will be more SP to spend, second, who can say that elemental resistances won't increase?
Well, I'm interested to see how things change, especially since re-balancing has been promised.

[UnLucky]

With more SP you can easily grab PP Charge along with your desired skill branch's main skills. As it stands, "maining" ice is identical to a pure fire build, only you max Ice Mastery instead of Fire. It's not really that "anything but fire is useless" it's just that everything good is in the fire branch so you lose points/damage not going pure fire.

I'd love for resistances to be a thing, something worthwhile to be in the ice tree, uncharged techs to exist, and buffs to be usable. Wishful thinking?