Sakai updated PSO2 blog, and address TOS change.

[Sizustar]

http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11324870702.html

The basic is, the TOS change was also in Alpha, and beta test, it is just going back to a similiar format, there are server planned for relase in US/EU, and also Asia(Korea, probabely, as Sakai was talking about G-Star earlier)

Another reason for this change to the TOS, is to address malicious players(RMT, Hackers, overly sexual or offensive id/symbol art, etc) As a majority of them are oversea players
This TOS change, allows them to easily address them.

He also ackowledge and welcome the normal oversea player, and knows that many of us have put in alot of time and effort, and doesn't wish to make us lose those efforts.

But if another situation arose that affects many players and it is from oversea, then they will be forced to take more drastic action(IP-Ban).

Also no foreign credit card will currently be accepted.
From what I understand, it's not that Sega won't take foreign transaction, but that it's causing more trouble then it's worth.

1. Foreign transaction isn't instant, some takes a few day, while other will take up to a month.
2. People use foreign card, and while the transaction is ongoing, they report the transaction as fraud, or their credit card company cancel it, as not sure of the foreign transaction is initiated by the user. aka. Lost profit.
3. Tax issue, as Japan's tax law regarding credit card is strict, which is why a majority of online service won't take foreign transaction.

And if you see a malicious user, please use the report feature and report them.
https://ssl.pso2.jp/players/support/inquiry/?mode=wickeduser

[Garnet_Moon]

But if another situation arose that affects many players and it is from oversea, then they will be forced to take more drastic action(IP-Ban).

Welp, we're boned.

[Limbo_lag]

Thank you for the update....although I'd expect "another situation" to occur eventually, hopefully it will be individual IP bannings, and not entire regions.

[Aewyn]

Well, time to say goodbye to all that money I spent. Goodbye, Liana.

[Heat Haze]

He also ackowledge and welcome the normal oversea player, and knows that many of us have put in alot of time and effort, and doesn't wish to make us lose those efforts.

But if another situation arose that affects many players and it is from oversea, then they will be forced to take more drastic action(IP-Ban).

The first part is all nice.

Then I frowned at the bolded. It's understandable. Just that there are a bunch of people out there who I'm sure will ruin everything for everyone.

We're all screwed.

[jooozek]

Now that Sakai said they can actually nuke us I bid all the thoughts to invest any money into the japanese version farewell.

[Aewyn]

Yeah, I'm not going to jump onto the fear-mongering train here so I apologize if it came across that way, but it just seems so inevitable with the history of our community unfortunately. I just hope they're taking serious steps to prevent it now, rather than having allowed us to flush our money down the drain.

[blace]

The first part is all nice.

Then I frowned at the bolded. It's understandable. Just that there are a bunch of people out there who I'm sure will ruin everything for everyone.

We're all screwed.
Bound to happen, I see things like this go on every so often I get on.

[Valvalion]

While I'm grateful I'm not going to be banned just for being English, the line regarding IP ban being taken on more drastic action is worrying, because we all know that's going to happen.

[Sizustar]

While I'm grateful I'm not going to be banned just for being English, the line regarding IP ban being taken on more drastic action is worrying, because we all know that's going to happen.

Maybe it's my translation skill.
But from my reading of it, it is an action Sakai/Sega doesn't want to take, and this is a warning/notice to oversea players.
And also the part about reporting malicious/wicked user, from what I read, it's letting us not just be bystander, but help make the game environment better.

[Resanoca]

But if another situation arose that affects many players and it is from oversea, then they will be forced to take more drastic action(IP-Ban).]So we're basically on a ticking time bomb then? Dandy. I honestly wish the US/EU would come along sooner so most will gtfo.

Sadly though, they're absence would only be like, a few months. lol

[Limbo_lag]

Maybe it's my translation skill.
But from my reading of it, it is an action Sakai/Sega doesn't want to take, and this is a warning/notice to oversea players.
And also the part about reporting malicious/wicked user, from what I read, it's letting us not just be bystander, but help make the game environment better.

We could all theoretically jump onto lobby-20 and start reporting like crazy :-?

[FOnewearl-Lina]

As a majority of them are oversea players


Oooooh.

And if Broomop or whoever it was were smart, they'd register a whole bunch of fake accounts using the TENSO address, and make them all wall hack in random blocks on ship 2.

Yeah, it's probably already happening... (That's why I was saying the TENSO address wasn't safe)

[Mystil]

Well. I just bought my final batch of AC.


So we're basically on a ticking time bomb then? Dandy. I honestly wish the US/EU would come along sooner so most will gtfo.

Sadly though, they're absence would only be like, a few months. lol

I've been thinking this for a while. The long ass release window they have only draws more attention to us on the JP servers.

[jooozek]

We could all theoretically jump onto lobby-20 and start reporting like crazy :-?

So we get banned faster? Perfect.

[redroses]

It's really so sad to see, that they actually don't even mind us playing on their servers, but that some people might mess it up for all us.

It's also just so dissappointing to know that most of the hackers are from overseas.

[Arika]

Of course, we could play so long in PSU jp server and anything never went wrong, but this game just draw too much attention into western and obviously ruining it.

May be if the game were to be pay to play, then we would see players better in general, else I dunno.

[Resanoca]

It's also just so dissappointing to know that most of the hackers are from overseas.I think it's more of publicly hacking they're refering to is overseas.

[CelestialBlade]

So strange to me that they'll let us play but won't take our money. Seriously, who voluntarily slashes their own profits?

Oh well, I'm just glad we're not all IP BANND LOLZ after the US beat Japan in women's soccer yesterday :wacko:

[Mystil]

So strange to me that they'll let us play but won't take our money. Seriously, who voluntarily slashes their own profits?


I myself was very surprised by that.. I guess money doesn't talk as loud as it used to anymore.

[Aewyn]

I know this is a pipe dream, but I wish they'd offer AC incentives to switch for those of us who paid into the JP version. It'll never happen, but it'd make me feel better about having 'burned' that money considering I won't even be able to be Premium anymore. That ruins the experience, honestly.

It's almost as if they expect the extreme to happen so they're stopping the flow of money now to reduce the amount of overseas people who'll eventually be disappointed.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

I myself was very surprised by that.. I guess money doesn't talk as loud as it used to anymore.

Not when it's US dollar.

[Sizustar]

So strange to me that they'll let us play but won't take our money. Seriously, who voluntarily slashes their own profits?

Oh well, I'm just glad we're not all IP BANND LOLZ after the US beat Japan in women's soccer yesterday :wacko:

From what I understand, it's not that Sega won't take foreign transaction, but that it's causing more trouble then it's worth.

1. Foreign transaction isn't instant, some takes a few day, while other will take up to a month.
2. People use foreign card, and while the transaction is ongoing, they report the transaction as fraud, or their credit card company cancel it, as not sure of the foreign transaction is initiated by the user. aka. Lost profit.
3. Tax issue, as Japan's tax law regarding credit card is strict, which is why a majority of online service won't take foreign transaction.

[Resanoca]

I haven't used it so I can't really say, but isn't webmoney the way around this or...?

[Valvalion]

Yep. Webmoney and redeeming prepaid cards will get around this perfectly as long as you don't mind the markup.

[moorebounce]

Where there goes a catch 22. They changed the TOS so they can include things to help them ban people easier. If you snitch on players breaking the TOS at some point they're gonna say thats enough and ban all non-Japanese players.

The catch is are you gonna snitch and increase the chances of all non-Japanese being banned or are you gonna keep your mouth shut so the non-Japanese community can keep playing.

[BahnKnakyu]

Can someone confirm if Master/Visa cards are now rejected? If I ever need to get something AC related, despite its exorbitant prices, I'd like to know that option is still available.

[Valvalion]

I'm still able to buy 500AC through my card but no larger amounts.

[drizzle]

This will of course only encourage the cheaters more.
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted, and I didn't spend more than I normally would on a month of MMOing :D

[SPOnion]

Also in his blog he mentioned something about the new classes...it seems like the 3 new classes are not the 3 subclasses and you have to be lv 30 to be able to change class, and start from lv 1?

[RocSage]

The idea that this is to help them manage hackers is dumb. They can ban outright anyone that hacks as it is...even more so if they can track them down they can sue them and possibly cause them to get jail time so I don't see how this change is necessary to their goals.

Further more, the hackers themselves, the ones we know of are doing this to make them improve their security and nothing they are doing is really harmful so it seems to me that they are just passing off their incompetence in programming a secure system to the hackers and the foreign market in general.


I also wonder how smart this move is in general as I personally had intended to stay on the JP servers and likely will as long as possible and if forced off I don't see myself buying AC in the "global" version after being forced off the JP version that is a year ahead at launch of the "global" version.

[Ce'Nedra]

Well then guess in 24 hours we are all banned because some 12yo wheelchair script kiddie with no friends like to fk it up for everyone else.

[Valkyrie Lovrina]

Also in his blog he mentioned something about the new classes...it seems like the 3 new classes are not the 3 subclasses and you have to be lv 30 to be able to change class, and start from lv 1?then that would be a huge letdown for most. with not being able to cast Techs as a HU/RA or have Fighgunner again. with the double wammy of having to start at level 1 again for the new class's. isn't it Datamined that they are Sub Class's? :nono:

[Totori]

The idea that this is to help them manage hackers is dumb. They can ban outright anyone that hacks as it is...even more so if they can track them down they can sue them and possibly cause them to get jail time so I don't see how this change is necessary to their goals.

Further more, the hackers themselves, the ones we know of are doing this to make them improve their security and nothing they are doing is really harmful so it seems to me that they are just passing off their incompetence in programming a secure system to the hackers and the foreign market in general.

Well, because it's such a huge number this is a somewhat easier fix. Painful as it might be, no hacker is doing this to help SEGA, anyone that claims that is a shame. If you really wanna help get employed, get a job with them. They don't need some script kiddie lurking around hoping this will "improve" the security. All type of hacking is harmful there is no sugercoating for this.

Best thing to do is report anyone you see breaking acceptable rules, not doing so won't help one bit.

[Saffran]

It doesn't matter, you can always pay for private VPNs.
I paid with Visa for the PSOBB subscription and they never had any problem with it. I think they just don't want "customers" abroad because that would entitle them to deliver the service.

[RocSage]

Well, because it's such a huge number this is a somewhat easier fix. Painful as it might be, no hacker is doing this to help SEGA, anyone that claims that is a shame. If you really wanna help get employed, get a job with them. They don't need some script kiddie lurking around hoping this will "improve" the security. All type of hacking is harmful there is no sugercoating for this.

Best thing to do is report anyone you see breaking acceptable rules, not doing so won't help one bit.

That is wrong. Most hackers exist for the challenge and to help, not to be d-bags. There are some that are d-bags, but most are not and they are responsible for many things that keep people safe.

[Aewyn]

You have got to be kidding me. You think most hackers are white hats? You live in a fantasy world.

And Saffran, they are not obligated to deliver you any service. Read the Terms of Service. Whether or not you pay for anything, they can remove you from the game at a moment's notice, the same as they could do for JPs.

[EvilMag]

>Broomop
>Helping

Hahahaha Good one

[redroses]

I have to agree with Totori.
How exactly are the hackers helping? Are they sending reports to SEGA with how they managed to hack the game and offering solutions to how this could be stopped?

I hope that they at least hold back a little on the hacking at the moment.
If they don't do it so obvious and much SEGA might not react so harsh and as long as it doesn't affect a lot of japanese players.
If the hackers really are trying to be helpful, I am sure they can hold back for a little for helping out their community.

Also, it's not just about hackers, but all those that think they are so funny and genius with their insulting names and symbol art.

However, I am sure we can somehow get the people to listen and hold back with those things. We never had any problems like that on PSU JP. Everybody that played their was quite respectful and understood that we are guests on their servers.
I mean, Sakai doesn't even want to ban us, so let's just try our best to show him that he musn't do this.

[Aewyn]

I have to agree with Totori.
How exactly are the hackers helping? Are they sending reports to SEGA with how they managed to hack the game and offering solutions to how this could be stopped?

I hope that they at least hold back a little on the hacking at the moment.
If they don't do it so obvious and much SEGA might not react so harsh and as long as it doesn't affect a lot of japanese players.
If the hackers really are trying to be helpful, I am sure they can hold back for a little for helping out their community.

Also, it's not just about hackers, but all those that think they are so funny and genius with their insulting names and symbol art.

However, I am sure we can somehow get the people to listen and hold back with those things. We never had any problems like that on PSU JP. Everybody that played their was quite respectful and understood that we are guests on their servers.
I mean, Sakai doesn't even want to ban us, so let's just try our best to show him that he musn't do this.D'awww, I thought you didn't like us.

[Sasamichan]

Not when it's US dollar.

Money is money, no matter how much it's worth.

[Totori]

This is one of the downsides of free to play. Anyone with enough time can register, the US/EU server is going to be bombed with idiots like this running around once it hits.

[Aewyn]

This is one of the downsides of free to play. Anyone with enough time can register, the US/EU server is going to be bombed with idiots like this running around once it hits.I'm not ashamed to admit this was one of the reasons I was hoping to play the Japanese version exclusively, but the game and the methods for playing it became too publicized for its own good.

[CelestialBlade]

Malicious hackers are self-validating and self-fulfilling, I don't care what kinda BS they've been trying to feed us. There's people that do things to help, like a language patch, and then there's pathetic asshats who move NPCs and players around under the unimaginative ruse of "helping Sega find security holes". Typical behavior of a group of people only interested in their own goals and remain voluntarily blind to the far-reaching consequences of their actions. Really is just pathetic.

I'm not even worried about bans or whatever, but that level of sheer ignorance has always burned me.

[Blueblur]

I'm still able to buy 500AC through my card but no larger amounts.

Same here.

[RocSage]

You have got to be kidding me. You think most hackers are white hats? You live in a fantasy world.

The majority of hackers are white hat hackers. Maybe not the ones you are familiar with because it is the black hat hackers that are most talked about and are the ones that do the stupid shit in games and such, but those aren't the majority of hackers in the world. So it is not I who live in a fantasy world but rather those who think that these "hackers" that they see in, get this, fantasy worlds are representative of the whole that are.


>Broomop
>Helping

Hahahaha Good one

Never said that. Broomop is an idiot. The ones who are responsible for a few of the server maintenances are the ones trying to help according to them. Whether they are going about it a good way or not is another question.

[Totori]

Never said that. Broomop is an idiot. The ones who are responsible for a few of the server maintenances are the ones trying to help according to them. Whether they are going about it a good way or not is another question.

I really shouldn't respond to this but, the botton line is...they are not helping, because of the constant server maintenance. Which is making the game go down, they are not helping, sending in reports are helping, they have an active bug fix team. But they don't need someone trying to create bugs and exploits, just to grab their attention.

[RocSage]

I really shouldn't respond to this but, the botton line is...they are not helping, because of the constant server maintenance. Which is making the game go down, they are not helping, sending in reports are helping, they have an active bug fix team. But they don't need someone trying to create bugs and exploits, just to grab their attention.

Generally I'd agree with you as would most, but it is in your word choice that it makes it apparent where the problem is. You think the "hackers" are creating the bugs and exploits and whatever else you want to call them. This simply isn't true. The problems are there. If they didn't then the hackers couldn't do what they are doing. The hackers don't "create" these things. They "use" them. The Developers haven't "fixed" them and it is the developers' incompetence that allows these issues to persist.

I don't agree that these people should be doing what they are doing, but likewise it is ignorant to think that just getting rid of those who are doing it will stop it for all time and that the problem won't reoccur, because in reality the problem is still there and it will always be there until the devs actually fix it rather than playing the blame game.

[Myciah]

The majority of hackers are white hat hackers. Maybe not the ones you are familiar with because it is the black hat hackers that are most talked about and are the ones that do the stupid shit in games and such, but those aren't the majority of hackers in the world. So it is not I who live in a fantasy world but rather those who think that these "hackers" that they see in, get this, fantasy worlds are representative of the whole that are.



Never said that. Broomop is an idiot. The ones who are responsible for a few of the server maintenances are the ones trying to help according to them. Whether they are going about it a good way or not is another question.

Considering hacks "Iphones/web browsers/pirating keygens/game patches/visual mods/security system analysts (AV/A-Spyware)/computer system modding/translation pstches/making private servers and whatnot", the average hacker isn't really a blackhat. Using technical skills is not everyone can do, although perhaps the modern script kiddie in MMOs (when hacks are publicized with their methodology/supplemented software) can be attributed to a great deal of stress to players, they are not necessarily the "common" hacker with high-level technical skills.

[Galerianx]

they dont wanna take youre money becos they will feel bad if they have to ban every one becos of people hacking thats why i not paid for any ac am just enjoying the game as it is :}

[Aewyn]

The majority of hackers are white hat hackers. Maybe not the ones you are familiar with because it is the black hat hackers that are most talked about and are the ones that do the stupid shit in games and such, but those aren't the majority of hackers in the world. So it is not I who live in a fantasy world but rather those who think that these "hackers" that they see in, get this, fantasy worlds are representative of the whole that are.You really thought I was just talking about games? Talk about naive. I never call these kids 'hackers' because they aren't 'hacking' anything. They can use a cheat engine and input memory addresses-- wow! Anyone who knows how to use a keyboard can do that. Not impressed.

Speaking of naivete, the amount of naivete involved in assuming most hackers are white hat is just shocking. However since it's not relevant to the thread, I'm content to smirk at your reply and wonder what you were thinking when you typed it.

Back on your original point. If you think most of these guys "hacking" PSO2 are doing it to help us out, then I'm not thrilled about your ability to determine what is and is not a gray area.

If we all get our ban hats, then so be it. But let's not pretend it's all because those nasty administrators were being callous. If we get the boot, we'll all know why it happened.

[Ana-Chan]

then that would be a huge letdown for most. with not being able to cast Techs as a HU/RA or have Fighgunner again. with the double wammy of having to start at level 1 again for the new class's. isn't it Datamined that they are Sub Class's? :nono:

Who says that subclasses and the new classes are not distinct? Sub classes have been confirmed in a previous post, new classes have also been confirmed. So isn't it possible that both are coming?
Also, with the starting at level 1 again, isn't that the same as any of the other classes? The only difference is getting to level 30, which makes me think the new classes are advanced classes.

[Aewyn]

I'm excited to see what they are, nevertheless. That announcement is very interesting!

[Valkyrie Lovrina]

Who says that subclasses and the new classes are not distinct? Sub classes have been confirmed in a previous post, new classes have also been confirmed. So isn't it possible that both are coming?
Also, with the starting at level 1 again, isn't that the same as any of the other classes? The only difference is getting to level 30, which makes me think the new classes are advanced classes.ehehe, I guess I might have jumped the gun on that. they worded their post to make it seem like Sub Class's weren't coming. my bad.

[RocSage]

You really thought I was just talking about games? Talk about naive. I never call these kids 'hackers' because they aren't 'hacking' anything. They can use a cheat engine and input memory addresses-- wow! Anyone who knows how to use a keyboard can do that. Not impressed.

Speaking of naivete, the amount of naivete involved in assuming most hackers are white hat is just shocking. However since it's not relevant to the thread, I'm content to smirk at your reply and wonder what you were thinking when you typed it.

Back on your original point. If you think most of these guys "hacking" PSO2 are doing it to help us out, then I'm not thrilled about your ability to determine what is and is not a gray area.

If we all get our ban hats, then so be it. But let's not pretend it's all because those nasty administrators were being callous. If we get the boot, we'll all know why it happened.

I said your perception of the reality wrong because it is largely influenced by the negative that people hear more often than the good.

I also don't know where you get that I said callous. I said that they are blaming people when in fact it is their fault for not being able to program something that can so easily be exploited. Especially as it stands now because there is a general fix for it that they have ignored.

As far as whether those guys are or are not actually trying to help. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I see no reason to doubt the words of these particular people so why should I? Simply to be a cynical jackass?

[Yunfa]

RocSage, how can you give someone the benefit of the doubt when the entire non-JP population are threatened to be IP banned? How naive can you be? We all know we should not judge a book by its cover, but when I see a person in a dark alley pointing a gun at someone as he is being mugged, i'm suppose to give the benefit of the doubt that everything will just turn out ok? Maybe you haven't experienced enough PAIN in your life to taste the bitterness of REAL REALITY.

[Zyrusticae]

Isn't it just fascinating how incredibly fucked up our culture is compared to theirs?

Majority of "hackers" are overseas, indeed... Not surprised by that one iota. Really, was anyone delusional enough to think there was anything resembling a high number of JP "hackers"? (Answer: Yes, because ignorance rules, obv)

[DC_PLAYER]

2nd excuse is BS, cheating and using offensive names and chat are already against the TOS, never knew sega would require 2 reasons to punish players.

In the end, all players use offensive languange, not just non jp players

[Omisan]

"About the abuse, we ask the report from Report "malicious user" in the support navigation as soon as everyone discovered. Order to eliminate illegal player, protect the environment comfortable for everyone play, so we will continue to support the future, measures, and we ask whether your understanding and cooperation"

I guess you havent read this whole thing or you did and i just find it more important but.... He is asking JP players to report all english speaking players right?

[Ana-Chan]

2nd excuse is BS, cheating and using offensive names and chat are already against the TOS, never knew sega would require 2 reasons to punish players.

In the end, all players use offensive languange, not just non jp players

I think you missed the whole point of everything. This change makes it easier for them to deal with the problem if things get any worse. Since there is no money involved this time, what is there to stop people from registering a new SEGA ID and doing all of the cheating or spamming offensive things on that one, leaving their original account untouched.
While it is true that everyone does it, I have even seen the Japanese coming up with offensive things. The highest concentration of it I saw was the times that I ended up in block 20 while it was full of immature westerners.
This is simply a case of SEGA saying, be careful, if you play by our rules then nothing will happen, otherwise everyone goes.
But well, if you look at all of the articles around already, it already has the deterrent effect. Also please remember, this clause has been in all of the Japanese PS games to date, and I'm sure that it was only because it has been missing since the OBT that we have ended up with this warning.


"About the abuse, we ask the report from Report "malicious user" in the support navigation as soon as everyone discovered. Order to eliminate illegal player, protect the environment comfortable for everyone play, so we will continue to support the future, measures, and we ask whether your understanding and cooperation"

I guess you havent read this whole thing or you did and i just find it more important but.... He is asking JP players to report all english speaking players right?

I wonder if this is paranoia at work. No, he is asking anyone to report any malicious users. It has been against the ToS in all previous PS games to connect from abroad, and people did it anyway. SEGA tolerated it because the majority of those players kept to the rest of the rules. So there is nothing different here. I've had conversations with Japanese people since this ToS change came into effect and they were pleasent. I'm currently playing the game too. So it is simply the case of just abiding by their rules and remembering that you are a guest in someone elses home.

[Neirene]

No, he means that everyone both overseas and japanese players send reports of bad behaviour or cheating through that form.

[Neirene]

It doesn't matter, you can always pay for private VPNs.
I paid with Visa for the PSOBB subscription and they never had any problem with it. I think they just don't want "customers" abroad because that would entitle them to deliver the service.

We were paying for the JP PSOBB subscription without problems safran but remember we played in a server that was almost entirely japanese with very very little foreigners playing mostly because PSOBB was considered a very old game at the time and most people were playing PSU too.

Over here i'm more worried because it's the new game, there's no other PSO game series running and PSU is shutting down in a month so and everyone both good and bad players from everywhere are in the same place and even if you get a private VPN the harm is done because there will be japanese players that will feel very insulted already and will try to track your down and find ways to either humiliate you or directly ban you by reporting.

You don't remember what happened during the JP PSOBB beta?

[Vashyron]

Woop, the beginning of shoving all the problems on the filthy non Japanese servers!

Oversea players causing problems? Shove them all on the Western Servers and sit back and take their sweet time addressing/ignoring problems. Players quickly get fed up and server population diminishes.

The Phantasy Star prophecy coming full circle again.

[RocSage]

RocSage, how can you give someone the benefit of the doubt when the entire non-JP population are threatened to be IP banned? How naive can you be? We all know we should not judge a book by its cover, but when I see a person in a dark alley pointing a gun at someone as he is being mugged, i'm suppose to give the benefit of the doubt that everything will just turn out ok? Maybe you haven't experienced enough PAIN in your life to taste the bitterness of REAL REALITY.

Intent has nothing to do with the results

My intent can be to have a country that wants nothing but the happiness and peace of the world... and the results of that have been Crusades, World War 2, and the current wars that the US are in.

Or
My intent could be to be a greedy bastard that doesn't help anyone and the results can be a revolution in electronics that changes how the world fundamentally sees mobile PCs.

You can come up with countless examples of intent matching results and as I haven't seen any actual harmful hacking taking place, and what small amount you could say is harmful is debatable and for a specific reason. I'd say that is more than apt to say that is fair to give them the benefit of the doubt.


I'm not saying what they are doing is the best way or the smartest way to get SEGA to do what it should do, but I also haven't heard or seen anything that contradicts what those particular hackers have said is their purpose.

[MissNina2012]

It's so weird to read this stuff about all the hacking and problems. Is it really this bad and is it mostly on ship 2 and 10? I play on a different ship (I joined when 2 and 10 were locked) so my playing experience has been peaceful, thank goodness. It's unfortunate that not everyone has the maturity level to behave themselves especially when we are guests in another country's servers. I also hope Sega doesn't punish everyone for the actions of a few bad seeds.

[gigawuts]

Woop, the beginning of shoving all the problems on the filthy non Japanese servers!

Oversea players causing problems? Shove them all on the Western Servers and sit back and take their sweet time addressing/ignoring problems. Players quickly get fed up and server population diminishes.

The Phantasy Star prophecy coming full circle again.

So there's the Sonic Cycle, and I guess there's the Phantasy Star Cycle too!

(Both of these would make for great weapons, launchers you ride like bikes with rodeo drive)

[RocSage]

It's so weird to read this stuff about all the hacking and problems. Is it really this bad and is it mostly on ship 2 and 10? I play on a different ship (I joined when 2 and 10 were locked) so my playing experience has been peaceful, thank goodness. It's unfortunate that not everyone has the maturity level to behave themselves especially when we are guests in another country's servers. I also hope Sega doesn't punish everyone for the actions of a few bad seeds.

I largely play away from the rest of these people so I don't have any problems either.

[Laxedrane]

So basicly they are taking the easy way out and causing a massive amount of their paying playing base to be on edge. Meanwhile any hacker who good enough or RMT persistent enough would easily find a way around IP lock outs while the average player will be out cold.

Makes, total, sense.

[MissNina2012]

@RocSage I kind of understand the point you're trying to get across (that they are finding errors that Sega should have fixed in the first place thus helping the game >.>), but the fact of the matter is it is not their job to find these errors and they are breaking the rules when they do this. And I DO NOT want my gaming experience to be affected by some kids who think they're hackers. They're certainly not helping me so they need to stop.

[Sizustar]

So basicly they are taking the easy way out and causing a massive amount of their paying playing base to be on edge. Meanwhile any hacker who good enough or RMT persistent enough would easily find a way around IP lock outs while the average player will be out cold.

Makes, total, sense.

I don't believe the oversea player constitue as a large paying base.
And those that do pay, are most likely familiar with bypassing ip-bans and such, as they would have played other foreign game with this kind of system.

[Ce'Nedra]

Best part of all: If we get IP banned people like Broomop just hack their way back in and continue to mess up the JP server. I really hope Sega knows this and just gives out this warning to scare the 99,9% of the players, who do care for the game, to not do anything not allowed.

[Laxedrane]

I don't believe the oversea player constitue as a large paying base.
And those that do pay, are most likely familiar with bypassing ip-bans and such, as they would have played other foreign game with this kind of system.

You are probably correct, but I think it's a note worthy enough amount of people for it to register if they blanket ban us.

[RocSage]

@RocSage I kind of understand the point you're trying to get across (that they are finding errors that Sega should have fixed in the first place thus helping the game >.>), but the fact of the matter is it is not their job to find these errors and they are breaking the rules when they do this. And I DO NOT want my gaming experience to be affected by some kids who think they're hackers. They're certainly not helping me so they need to stop.

I'm not passing judgement either way on these people. I'm just saying that, whatever your view on them, SEGA is ultimately at fault and this change in the TOS is completely dishonest and casting blame on others (others not especially involved in any way of the problem) instead of fixing the problem like they should.

[Ana-Chan]

You are probably correct, but I think it's a note worthy enough amount of people for it to register if they blanket ban us.

With their recent announcment, SEGA has 800,000 players registered for PSO2. If anything, overseas players will make up between 1-5% of that.
Anyway, I am more inclined to believe that this is a warning. Getting the majority of the foreign players starting to act in more appropriate ways would be enough. If that happens, and the majority just act like they really should then IP bans will not happen. We will just end up in the same situation as PSOBB and PSU.

[Husq]

I don't believe the oversea player constitue as a large paying base.


But they do indirectly affect the economics in-game, don't they? How many non-AC buyers have spend massive amounts of meseta using my-shop to get costumes, weapons and other things. If these people are gone, I do believe item prices will be affected, as less people are going to buy stuff. This also means that some players will have to play the game longer to save up meseta, which they previous got from selling AC-scratch goods, or they just play another game.

[Cyclon]

Just to make sure, I think I've read "(IP ban)", which led me to think that the OP added it and there's nothing official about it.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

[RocSage]

Just to make sure, I think I've read "(IP ban)", which led me to think that the OP added it and there's nothing official about it.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

It's an implication not an explication.

[Cyclon]

It's an implication not an explication.
Implication made by the OP or Sakai?

Not meaning to sound rude or anything. I'd just like to be sure.

Edit: Okay, that didn't make sense. Are they officially threatening to Ip-ban foreigners or not?

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Implication made by the OP or Sakai?

Not meaning to sound rude or anything. I'd just like to be sure.
It's an implication made by the OP suggesting that an IP ban of anywhere that isn't Japan is the expected "drastic measure" they will take.

[kkow]

can still buy ac in 500 increments with a foreign card. lucky me? or have they not implemented this yet?

[anubispso2]

well from what i can tell sega fixed the issues regarding speeding people up. The issue of detection of cheat tool is a little strange. Maybe they add a check on character data and make sure its crc'd (i know it can be possible as broomop actually made a script to detect you using cheats lol, just to prove his point). But either way you call it script kiddy or not, from what i can see. The only things sega are fixing are what hes showing to SEGA. Theres alot Sega is not seeing. And it will be seen at its full potentional on USA release. How fast they react on USA release will determine on how messed up the whole economy on USA/EU will be.

[Link1275]

So strange to me that they'll let us play but won't take our money. Seriously, who voluntarily slashes their own profits?

Oh well, I'm just glad we're not all IP BANND LOLZ after the US beat Japan in women's soccer yesterday :wacko:

Soccer? What's soccer?

[Wokker]

Hopefully SEGA will stop the hacking. I just hope that we dont get IP-banned and then later next year get greeted by the same hackers on the ENG servers out to destroy PSO2 again.

[supersonix9]

I seriously hope there's no IP ban.

Half of the enjoyment with me playing this game is the fact that it's in Japanese, and the fact that not EVERY SINGLE person that I play with is a casual, obnoxious player that doesn't play the game for it's sole purpose. (AKA Lobby AFKers)

[Kimil Adrayne]

I seriously hope there's no IP ban.

Half of the enjoyment with me playing this game is the fact that it's in Japanese, and the fact that not EVERY SINGLE person that I play with is a casual, obnoxious player that doesn't play the game for it's sole purpose. (AKA Lobby AFKers)
Do you speak Japanese? If not, why would half of your enjoyment be because it's in a language that you don't understand.

And don't give me that "I'm trying to learn!" crap, there are much more efficient ways to do that. Memorizing the symbols that mean "power" or "ability" will get you nowhere in learning the language as a whole.

[Crysteon]

I seriously hope there's no IP ban.

Half of the enjoyment with me playing this game is the fact that it's in Japanese, and the fact that not EVERY SINGLE person that I play with is a casual, obnoxious player that doesn't play the game for it's sole purpose. (AKA Lobby AFKers)

^ This.

It's quite unfortunate they might have to end up IP-banning regions just as an easy way to get rid of an issue that can be addressed individually. I dont blame then, though...dealing with that particular bunch of obnoxious players wouldnt be pleasent at all. Hell, but this truly pisses me off...

I'm not of the casual kind of players (I tried to be, but I couldnt), but someone who actually plays consciously and spends hours trying to get better at the game and pays for a monthly fee and extra services. All that is just going to sink just because some cluster of stupid and immature foreigners have to ruin the effort of the rest of us, the dedicated people.

[DemonMike]

Do you speak Japanese? If not, why would half of your enjoyment be because it's in a language that you don't understand.

And don't give me that "I'm trying to learn!" crap, there are much more efficient ways to do that. Memorizing the symbols that mean "power" or "ability" will get you nowhere in learning the language as a whole.

Don't give people that "It's not efficient to learn a language through video games" crap. I'll admit that using it for learning kanji alone is ridiculous, but if you want to increase your reading speed and are avidly speaking to Japanese players, it's absolutely brilliant practice.

I've found some amazing Japanese players that offer me grammar advice and which words sound less stiff and if any one else is interested, I encourage them to do the same.

[NoiseHERO]

Soccer? What's soccer?

Football! D:

[supersonix9]

Do you speak Japanese? If not, why would half of your enjoyment be because it's in a language that you don't understand.

And don't give me that "I'm trying to learn!" crap, there are much more efficient ways to do that. Memorizing the symbols that mean "power" or "ability" will get you nowhere in learning the language as a whole.

I'm taking my fourth year of the language within the next month. I can hold basic conversations with the Japanese players. But for some reason, I like the challenge that I have to figure out what everything means. Not really because I'm learning, but I like how it can make the game harder when I don't know what I'm doing.

And no, learning Japanese through an online game is probably the most practical way of learning casual and conversational Japanese. It's much more useful than taking a class that teaches you only formal speech.

[jooozek]

I seriously hope there's no IP ban.

Half of the enjoyment with me playing this game is the fact that it's in Japanese, and the fact that not EVERY SINGLE person that I play with is a casual, obnoxious player that doesn't play the game for it's sole purpose. (AKA Lobby AFKers)
Instead they bring you bots or spam obnoxious autowords. :yes:

[supersonix9]

Instead they bring you bots or spam obnoxious autowords. :yes:

NPC characters and macros apply to any server this game will ever have. That factor is a constant.

[Shakuri]

All it takes is one or two penises to ruin it for everyone else. Least there's a hint of realism in game now.

[Sierhiet]

Don't give people that "It's not efficient to learn a language through video games" crap. I'll admit that using it for learning kanji alone is ridiculous, but if you want to increase your reading speed and are avidly speaking to Japanese players, it's absolutely brilliant practice.

I've found some amazing Japanese players that offer me grammar advice and which words sound less stiff and if any one else is interested, I encourage them to do the same.

This would require the preexisting pursuit of an education in Japanese, which apparently he has which is commendable and pretty awesome. It is none the less a special case, however.



Also no foreign credit card will currently be accepted.. How much of the game would we argue is made of premium content?

[cheapgunner]

Hope the worst doesn't happen. Was just about to get some AC for a couple new mags and premium as well. :(

[DemonMike]

This would require the preexisting pursuit of an education in Japanese, which apparently he has which is commendable and pretty awesome. It is none the less a special case, however.

I agree actually. However, it's not really a special case as there numerous websites (some of which are incredibly good) that can get you up to speed with grammar and using PSO2 as a practise ground afterwards can work wonders.

I definitely would not suggest some one trying to learn it from scratch from a video game heh. God knows the amount of w's they would use.

[Sierhiet]

I agree actually. However, it's not really a special case as there numerous websites (some of which are incredibly good) that can get you up to speed with grammar and using PSO2 as a practise ground afterwards can work wonders.

I definitely would not suggest some one trying to learn it from scratch from a video game heh. God knows the amount of w's they would use.Absolutely. I'm just giving Kimil the benefit of the doubt, because contrary to our understanding and common sense, there are some who would argue that they're doing just the bolded (learning JP from a game). Hence the reasoning behind calling out supersonix.

[supersonix9]

On top of the reasons I gave for not wanting an IP ban, I think that pretty much everyone here would agree that it would really suck if our characters (I have 400 hours on mine and some people have more) got deleted. I've spent WAY too much time on this game to just say 'Ok well I'll just wait for the other server to open up'.

Sakai himself even acknowledged this, that there ARE some overseas players who play the game correctly and have spent a large amount of time on the game.

[Kylie]

If SoJ cannot deal with the hackers and has to resort to a regional IP ban (which seems highly unethical to me but is not an uncommon business strategy in Japan), then SoA sure as hell would not be able to keep out hackers. I kinda hope the NA/EU version is not f2p because of this. Hackers are going to have a field day, especially when there is so little to lose for them. Besides, personally, I cannot see myself ever being even slightly interested in our version if my IP address is very rudely blocked just because of my region. That would be sooooo lame.

[CelestialBlade]

I agree actually. However, it's not really a special case as there numerous websites (some of which are incredibly good) that can get you up to speed with grammar and using PSO2 as a practise ground afterwards can work wonders.

I definitely would not suggest some one trying to learn it from scratch from a video game heh. God knows the amount of w's they would use.
What IS with the "w" thing, seriously? I'm genuinely curious from a cultural standpoint, I always see long lines of wwwwwwwwww in Japanese casual speak online.

[jooozek]

What IS with the "w" thing, seriously? I'm genuinely curious from a cultural standpoint, I always see long lines of wwwwwwwwww in Japanese casual speak online.

w = warau = laugh

...i think

[NoiseHERO]

What IS with the "w" thing, seriously? I'm genuinely curious from a cultural standpoint, I always see long lines of wwwwwwwwww in Japanese casual speak online.

Not sure why exactly it's W's

But that's like their "lol"

[CelestialBlade]

Ah, so it's kind of a "lololololol" thing then? Good to know because that had me so confused :lol:

[Zyrusticae]

It's "W" for "warai", which is their word for "laughter".

(Fun fact: It's one vowel away from "warui", their word for "bad" or "wrong".)

[supersonix9]

W stands for warau, which is Japanese for 'laughing'.

wwwww

Warau, waraimasu. Same thing.

EDIT: Zyru got it.

[Vashyron]

If SoJ cannot deal with the hackers and has to resort to a regional IP ban (which seems highly unethical to me but is not an uncommon business strategy in Japan), then SoA sure as hell would not be able to keep out hackers. I kinda hope the NA/EU version is not f2p because of this. Hackers are going to have a field day, especially when there is so little to lose for them. Besides, personally, I cannot see myself ever being even slightly interested in our version if my IP address is very rudely blocked just because of my region. That would be sooooo lame.

Of course seems they are just trying to shove the problem to their 2nd rate customers. Any issues that rise from SOA/SOE's point they can just sit back and take their sweet time addressing them.

Then players can get fed up with the service they are receiving again, then the game quickly dies outside the Japanese regions just like in the past.

[Link1275]

Of course seems they are just trying to shove the problem to their 2nd rate customers. Any issues that rise from SOA/SOE's point they can just sit back and take their sweet time addressing them.

Then players can get fed up with the service they are receiving again, then the game quickly dies outside the Japanese regions just like in the past.
We're not 2nd rate, we're just not valued, and appreciated customers. 2nd customers have to be doing something on their end to be 2nd rate, whereas the other way around it's the seller.

[Cyrillic]

I WOULD buy into the 'hackers are pointing out flaws' thing, but from my experience with other F2P games there's just a fundamental flaw with that.

Its that usually they use their security program to add a 'detection' for that specific hack attempt rather than fixing it directly. Meaning the only issue for malicious hackers is finding a way around the game security program and doing it again. Basically; some just 'fix their X-trap/Gameguard' rather than the game itself.

If you guys have any evidence of these white-hat hackers ACTUALLY getting a hack patched beyond 'oh gameguard detects it now' and more like 'i couldn't even do it even if i got past GG' then my faith in Sega would increase somewhat and i'd acknowledge the work of a white hat hacker.

If this isn't the case though, they honestly need to stop cause its not helping anyone. Cause in the end it takes an intelligent,skilled and invested company to truly handle exploits like that. If Sega isn't that... then the headaches you guys are going through because of them are a waste.

[Kylie]

Of course seems they are just trying to shove the problem to their 2nd rate customers. Any issues that rise from SOA/SOE's point they can just sit back and take their sweet time addressing them.

Then players can get fed up with the service they are receiving again, then the game quickly dies outside the Japanese regions just like in the past.
Seems like a big waste of money to me... That is pretty much how it always goes though.

[Omisan]

We're not 2nd rate, we're just not valued, and appreciated customers. 2nd customers have to be doing something on their end to be 2nd rate, whereas the other way around it's the seller.

There are reasons why we are 2nd rate if we look at it from their viewpoint.

1. Credit cards fail to send them payment
2. Registered info is fake
3. Large amount of technical difficulties in game caused by our population
4. Any advertisements paid for by a third party are entirely not effective on us
5. Causing unnecessary maintenance discourages their main customers
6. Poor or no access to merchandise and sales for things only in Japan
= We are way more trouble than normal JP users.

[Enforcer MKV]

What IS with the "w" thing, seriously? I'm genuinely curious from a cultural standpoint, I always see long lines of wwwwwwwwww in Japanese casual speak online.

Allow me to translate. *ahem*

lolololololololololololol

... approximately.

(Yeah, I know people got it already, I just wanted to be a smartass)

See you in game, Coco. :-P

[IndigoNovember]

Just wanted to confirm as another source that you can use a foreign credit card to buy at least 500 AC. I just used my Visa credit card to buy a new skill tree.

[Garnet_Moon]

Cyber terrorists who wish to bathe in and drink of our tears are probably working much harder now that they have this news. Especially since they got word from Sakai himself we'll be range IP-banned if more massive incidents occur.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Looks like I won't be playin pso2 till 2013

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Great to know people come up with such conclusions

[Renzer]

This is why I hate SEGA, they don't try to solve the problem properly, they just start banning and blocking everyone outside their game.

Instead of working to make a better security system for the game they just block everyone (which I bet won't solve anything).

This is why I am not looking forward to the US/EU release because how SEGA is dealing with this situation. How are they going to solve the huge amount of hacking and cheating in the western servers? Ban and block all of use out of those servers?

Seriously I think SEGA should come out of the closet and admit that they are an exclusive developer for Japan and they will no longer support western fans because that is the path they are following.

[Garnet_Moon]

This is why I hate SEGA, they don't try to solve the problem properly, they just start banning and blocking everyone outside their game.

First off, ditch GameGuard. IT. DOES. NOT. WORK. Second, hire some god damn GMs. I haven't seen a single one. AT ALL. Usually when a game launches I see them everywhere due to many reports about certain things and they show up to officially log it and expedite it to their bosses. I haven't seen ONE GM.

OH, right. There is no report function in-game. You have to fucking alt-tab and use their website wickeduser report.

Really, SEGA? No in-game report function?

[Slidikins]

Instead of working to make a better security system for the game they just block everyone (which I bet won't solve anything).

Speaking of which, how does Game Guard continue to be used when is hasn't worked for any game ever? After PSOBB and PSU I'd think SEGA would look elsewhere for security (if not beef up their own programming a bit). VAC works fine. Blizzard's methods work fine for the most part... but SEGA sticks with the tried and terrible Game Guard. WHY?

[Finalzone]

While SoJ tried to address malicious cracking (real word equivalent of mainstream definition of acker) issue by threatening international ban on Japanese server, what about Japanese players themselves who are outside their own country?

Weakest link is definitely Gameguard, the number of exploits from crackers only reinforces its uselessness. Gameguard is simply a security problem (it requires hardware access which is against security policies on Non-windows based system) because it indirectly allow backdoor for malicious software which completely defeat its purpose: to prevent hacking. Sega of Japan must replace that piece of rootkit by something else. Full IP ban will not resolve the root cause of vulnerability.

[Renzer]

First off, ditch GameGuard. IT. DOES. NOT. WORK. Second, hire some god damn GMs. I haven't seen a single one. AT ALL. Usually when a game launches I see them everywhere due to many reports about certain things and they show up to officially log it and expedite it to their bosses. I haven't seen ONE GM.

OH, right. There is no report function in-game. You have to fucking alt-tab and use their website wickeduser report.

Really, SEGA? No in-game report function?

What is more sad is I bet those hackers are probably using the same programs to bypass Game Guard as they did in PSOBB.

[Sierhiet]

There are reasons why we are 2nd rate if we look at it from their viewpoint.

1. Credit cards fail to send them payment
2. Registered info is fake
3. Large amount of technical difficulties in game caused by our population
4. Any advertisements paid for by a third party are entirely not effective on us
5. Causing unnecessary maintenance discourages their main customers
6. Poor or no access to merchandise and sales for things only in Japan
= We are way more trouble than normal JP users.

Agreed.

[Garnet_Moon]

Speaking of which, how does Game Guard continue to be used when is hasn't worked for any game ever? After PSOBB and PSU I'd think SEGA would look elsewhere for security (if not beef up their own programming a bit). VAC works fine. Blizzard's methods work fine for the most part... but SEGA sticks with the tried and terrible Game Guard. WHY?
I think SEGA actually believes GG works because there is no way their own Japanese could ever hack or cheat, so they probably don't have actual proof that it actually doesn't work.

They probably think it's some foreign anti-JP group that is hacking GameGuard and PSO/PSU/etc because they just hate SEGA.

Not because their easy.

[Renzer]

No IP ban will not resolve the root cause of vulnerability.

This is truly the sad thing about this. SEGA might end up IP banning all of us, but the hackers and trolls will still continue to ruin their game.

[DemonMike]

There are reasons why we are 2nd rate if we look at it from their viewpoint.

1. Credit cards fail to send them payment
2. Registered info is fake
3. Large amount of technical difficulties in game caused by our population
4. Any advertisements paid for by a third party are entirely not effective on us
5. Causing unnecessary maintenance discourages their main customers
6. Poor or no access to merchandise and sales for things only in Japan
= We are way more trouble than normal JP users.

Five star post son. I was talking to a member of the team I'm in earlier about this because he insisted an IP ban would be the death of the game.

Personally, I think the nail is in the coffin on this, regardless of whether or not the English exploiters clean up their ways. Why? The blocking of foreign credit cards. Although they take a month to process in most cases, I've yet to hear of a failed payment (then again, who would really publicise that sort of information? Derp argument, I know).

Although it's impossible to block the others, blocking credit cards just lets more money gaijin's could spend on their game get wasted by paying for webmoney with high margins.

[Xaton]

This is truly the sad thing about this. SEGA might end up IP banning all of us, but the hackers and trolls will still continue to ruin their game.

yet they IP ban and stuf fhits the fan again then it shows game gaurd and they need to fix stuff. and no one else to blame really cept their own

[Garnet_Moon]

yet they IP ban and stuf fhits the fan again then it shows game gaurd and they need to fix stuff. and no one else to blame really cept their own

First a simple IP ban. Then the really dedicated will switch to VPNs. The hackers switch too. First the free VPNs go down, then they use a paid one, and most of those go down as well.

Somebody should call Bush and tell him there's some cyber terrorism for him to hunt. Send the SEALS after the hackers.

[GoldenFalcon]

"1. Credit cards fail to send them payment"
This is incorrect.
It was Sega not giving a single shit about our tiny amounts of AC from overseas, so they waited a month to pick it up. Entirely "their fault", not ours
I thought everyone knew this by now.

[CelestialBlade]

I think SEGA actually believes GG works because there is no way their own Japanese could ever hack or cheat, so they probably don't have actual proof that it actually doesn't work.

They probably think it's some foreign anti-JP group that is hacking GameGuard and PSO/PSU/etc because they just hate SEGA.

Not because their easy.
It's probably contractual, actually. I'm willing to bet Gameguard was the lowest bidder/cheapest contractor so they plug it in and go. Typical corporate idiocy, cheap out now so you have to pay for it later.

[Husq]

"1. Credit cards fail to send them payment"
This is incorrect.
It was Sega not giving a single shit about our tiny amounts of AC from overseas, so they waited a month to pick it up. Entirely "their fault", not ours
I thought everyone knew this by now.

Isn't it more the fault of the bank they choose to use for handling credit card payments?

[Finalzone]

They probably think it's some foreign anti-JP group that is hacking GameGuard and PSO/PSU/etc because they just hate SEGA.

Nationality does not matter. Malicious crackers can be Japanese too, SEGA knows that fact. They should serious review their own security policies because these exploits only reveal their flaws. Remember that PSO2 is coming to Playstation Vita and Smartphone (Android and IOS) where Gameguard cannot be used.

[sugarFO]

How do I e-mail Sakai? Lol. I have to tell him what will happen to their game!!

[Finalzone]

How do I e-mail Sakai? Lol. I have to tell him what will happen to their game!!

Simply visit his blog: http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11324870702.html

[Renzer]

Nationality does not matter. Malicious crackers can be Japanese too, SEGA knows that fact. They should serious review their own security policies because these exploits only reveal their flaws. Remember that PSO2 is coming to Playstation Vita and Smartphone (Android and IOS) where Gameguard cannot be used.

I wouldn't be surprised if SEGA canceled those two games because they are afraid of the western hackers and cheaters ruining those games too.

[Garnet_Moon]

How do I e-mail Sakai? Lol. I have to tell him what will happen to their game!!
...c...can I get a copy of the email you send to Sakai? Especially if you use Google TR to write it. :love:

[CultOfPersonality]

It's 2012, if you can't run your internet if you so chose through a Japanese IP.. then you need to google.

[Husq]

No IP ban will not resolve the root cause of vulnerability.

Thing is, IP ban are useless and eveyone know that, even SoJ. Main reason is that real crackers/hackers will always reroute their connection. I reckon most of them have access to a japanese IP anyways. Only people who are cleaver enough to cheat using direct connections are probably using pre-packet tools and to be honest they probably just want to be caught.

[Garnet_Moon]

It's 2012, if you can't run your internet if you so chose through a Japanese IP.. then you need to google.

I've never had to use a proxy or a VPN in my life except a few times recently when AT&T switched to juggling IPs every month. Sometimes I get one that is, quite literally, banned on every single website. Ever. So yeah, I have to do that for a month because AT&T doesn't understand what an IP is and that I need a new one. They always insist on sending a tech guy out to see if there's a line problem. It's not a line problem. It's the IP. The tech guy will the be charged to me.

Bollocks, but verizon fibre optics isn't available in my area so~.... ;_;

[Sizustar]

"1. Credit cards fail to send them payment"
This is incorrect.
It was Sega not giving a single shit about our tiny amounts of AC from overseas, so they waited a month to pick it up. Entirely "their fault", not ours
I thought everyone knew this by now.

This isn't just sega though, other online vendor has the same issue, so it's more of how foreign transaction works in Japan then Sega's fault.

[RocSage]

What really gets me is that these people still don't understand that nationality, especially on the internet, is a dying thing.

[Aewyn]

As far as whether those guys are or are not actually trying to help. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I see no reason to doubt the words of these particular people so why should I? Simply to be a cynical jackass?There's nothing cynical about looking at someone who's being an asshole and saying, "that guy's an asshole."

Do you believe the rampant FSODs resulting in tens of thousands of hours of lost investment from players in the PSO days ever had any meaningful effect on this game series' security? I certainly don't, and I don't consider that opinion cynical. They simply did not learn from their mistakes.

The "hackings" in NA PSU PC/PS2 devastated the community and it never recovered. Those who remained were finished off by Sega themselves, which was unfortunate and a different story altogether, but the fact remains that the game never really recovered from the initial "hacking." Sure, security improved in AOI and is marginally improved in PSO2 but did they come up with a better solution than before? No. So the end result was just that the game and its community received a crippling blow that was later one of the main reasons it bled out so many members.

I don't understand your belief that these guys could be just "helping out." Surely you recognize the damage these people have done to us in the past. These are just video games, but they've burned us many times in the past and continue to burn us now, and if they continue to do it it's going to mean I've lost a very expensive investment ($200) if we all get banned. What would they say to that? Probably something like, "lol."



What really gets me is that these people still don't understand that nationality, especially on the internet, is a dying thing.
Unfortunately we are doing our best to remind them that immense cultural divides are still alive and kicking.

[Garnet_Moon]

This isn't just sega though, other online vendor has the same issue, so it's more of how foreign transaction works in Japan then Sega's fault.

I remember my first over seas purchase from Japan. I remember that week all to freaking well. My Bank thought the card was stolen because I never used it on a japanese website. Most places have english or closer to our shores servers, so the statement isn't in Japanese. This one place was, and that froze my account. I needed gas and realized my card was locked the morning before I headed to work. Fortunately, my motorcycle was gased up. A shame it was pouring rain.

When I got my NEW card when THAT one expired, it was frozen too after a similar purchase. Apparently you need to call Bank of America before you purchase and give them the EXACT amount or they flag it and you have to jump through hoops to unfreeze the account and talk THEM out of talking YOU into a new card since the other apparently was stolen. In Japan. Yup.

[Malifaux]

What's strange to me about this is I doubt that most "hackers" would dump money into the game? So why punish the legit players who want to support the game by refusing to take their money?

This breaks my heart. I feel like I have no control over the fact that I'll eventually get a ban just from being from the wrong country, because a few jerks can ruin it for everyone. :( I really love this game, but it's hard to convince myself to bother to continue playing if I have a potential ban hanging over my head, and I can't participate in premium services.

What really drives the knife in my heart is that immediately after that announcement on Bumped, they mentioned that the Sept. premium is going to have Sato mag cells. :( I love Sato! Now I can't get one because I'm English? :(

I'm not sure if I want to even play anymore. What a kick in the gut.

[EvilMag]

So I saw the comments on Sakai's blog and I saw an old JP friend from of mine from PSU saying that blocking us won't solve a problem and why we play on the JP servers.

His name was ARTEMIS.

[RocSage]

There's nothing cynical about looking at someone who's being an asshole and saying, "that guy's an asshole."

Do you believe the rampant FSODs resulting in tens of thousands of hours of lost investment from players in the PSO days ever had any meaningful effect on this game series' security? I certainly don't, and I don't consider that opinion cynical. They simply did not learn from their mistakes.

The "hackings" in NA PSU PC/PS2 devastated the community and it never recovered. Those who remained were finished off by Sega themselves, which was unfortunate and a different story altogether, but the fact remains that the game never really recovered from the initial "hacking." Sure, security improved in AOI and is marginally improved in PSO2 but did they come up with a better solution than before? No. So the end result was just that the game and its community received a crippling blow that was later one of the main reasons it bled out so many members.

I don't understand your belief that these guys could be just "helping out." Surely you recognize the damage these people have done to us in the past. These are just video games, but they've burned us many times in the past and continue to burn us now, and if they continue to do it it's going to mean I've lost a very expensive investment ($200) if we all get banned. What would they say to that? Probably something like, "lol."


I'm not talking about everyone. I am talking about the specific people who are responsible for first event that got SEGA's attention. They said their intentions. I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise.

What you are doing is lumping all the people in a category as having the same motives for their actions which you shouldn't do, with anything. Yes, it might actually be harmful, but that doesn't mean that is what they are trying to do. What people should be doing to get them to stop is talk to them and try to reason with them and if they or the others don't stop report them, but you shouldn't be passing judgement on them when you don't have proof that they are being malicious.



Unfortunately we are doing our best to remind them that immense cultural divides are still alive and kicking.

That's not true. There isn't a massive cultural divide. It is just children acting like children, but even if there was a cultural divide separation does nothing to fix that.

[G.A.M.E.R-X]

I'm not talking about everyone. I am talking about the specific people who are responsible for first event that got SEGA's attention. They said their intentions. I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise.

What you are doing is lumping all the people in a category as having the same motives for their actions which you shouldn't do, with anything. Yes, it might actually be harmful, but that doesn't mean that is what they are trying to do. What people should be doing to get them to stop is talk to them and try to reason with them and if they or the others don't stop report them, but you shouldn't be passing judgement on them when you don't have proof that they are being malicious.





You're a naive, get a clue.

The idiot that's been playing with code on ship 2, Sziadan or whatever, has released a trainer on a public fucking forum for all to use and abuse. If you think that's not malicious intent you're fucking retarded.

There's no good excuse for putting the english playerbases ability to use the JP server in danger, or disrupting other players experiences.

Though I wouldn't expect someone as immature as you to understand that. After all, you deleted all the story translations because it went up your ass that you got corrected on translation errors and you refused to deal with it. So you decided to be a big baby about it instead of looking out for the communities best interest instead.

Stop talking. You're a fool.

[lunarsoul]

Anyone find it incredibly sad that someone like Broomop has went after SEGA and tries to hack the crap out of them every time for like 10 years? Its sad that you are known as the guy who made it his life's work to ruin SEGAs life's work. I could imagine a guy in a basement and then 10 years later the same shot of him in the same basement...

(Hasent been 10 years yet but its been so long it feels like 10)

[Aewyn]

I'm not talking about everyone. I am talking about the specific people who are responsible for first event that got SEGA's attention. They said their intentions. I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise.

What you are doing is lumping all the people in a category as having the same motives for their actions which you shouldn't do, with anything. Yes, it might actually be harmful, but that doesn't mean that is what they are trying to do. What people should be doing to get them to stop is talk to them and try to reason with them and if they or the others don't stop report them, but you shouldn't be passing judgement on them when you don't have proof that they are being malicious.



That's not true. There isn't a massive cultural divide. It is just children acting like children, but even if there was a cultural divide separation does nothing to fix that.Then you are shockingly, irresponsibly naive. I guess that's all I've got to say to you at this point. Say what you like.

[eharima]

Go for it, SEGA... block all the foreigners, piss everyone off so we have an excuse to rally LOIC to an IRC bot and look for ACTUAL malicious shit to fuck off your target audience.
we will spam more shit, because there will be nothing to loose, lobby raids are fun!

right now, some kids doing techs in lobby, speed hacking and moving the occasional NPC in 1 lobby is hardly malicious.
regardless if you think its 'jeopardizing the English player base'

Prolly never gonna happen tho :p

[Limbo_lag]

So I saw the comments on Sakai's blog and I saw an old JP friend from of mine from PSU saying that blocking us won't solve a problem and why we play on the JP servers.

His name was ARTEMIS.

Saw his post...if there is anyone who can understand the comments, what is the general view of the Japanese players on this situation? Because it will ultimately be them who speak for those of us who cannot.

[CultOfPersonality]

Why do people call it hacking? It's not.. it's a PC Gameshark for mods for a video game.. The only thing with it is that someone has to be pathetic enough to invest their time day in and day out to use it in EVERY Sega game for a reputation?

That's sad.

[sugarFO]

Anyone find it incredibly sad that someone like Broomop has went after SEGA and tries to hack the crap out of them every time for like 10 years? Its sad that you are known as the guy who made it his life's work to ruin SEGAs life's work. I could imagine a guy in a basement and then 10 years later the same shot of him in the same basement...

(Hasent been 10 years yet but its been so long it feels like 10)

Lmao someone should make a comic about that.

[CultOfPersonality]

I remember talking to Broomop or Snowfox, I forget which back when PSO was on GC.. on AOL. He had a picture of him in his dads garage fixing some car..

Looked like a skinny greasy haired pot head who never eats meat... And no, I'm not joking.

[Nitro Vordex]

So strange to me that they'll let us play but won't take our money. Seriously, who voluntarily slashes their own profits?

The CEO of Nintendo back in July 2011 comes to mind. (http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-ceo-takes-50-pay-cut-following-3ds-issues-207385.phtml)

[GoldenFalcon]

Anyone find it incredibly sad that someone like Broomop has went after SEGA and tries to hack the crap out of them every time for like 10 years? Its sad that you are known as the guy who made it his life's work to ruin SEGAs life's work. I could imagine a guy in a basement and then 10 years later the same shot of him in the same basement...

(Hasent been 10 years yet but its been so long it feels like 10)

Actually, it has been over 10 years since PSO GC. I assume he did things on Dreamcast as well, making it like 14 years
To be honest though, I'm surprised that there aren't like 50 Broomops trying to be him without taking the blame themselves

[lunarsoul]

i find it sad that sega hasn't learned how to deal with the same tricks for the past 10 years

people who exploit code do it because they're able to

shouldn't you see it as a sign that there's something horribly wrong with the way your developer does things that they're so easily exploited/hacked all the time
Everyone can get hacked I guess, and its not like SEGA has been running around with the same codes all these years, they probably change it often in hopes to prevent or minimize things like this. I would rather blame hackers for being this persistent in trying to jump through all of the loopholes, even if new ones prop up. It really takes a certain individual to be that dedicated to ruin things. If only Hitler killed himself 4 years earlier...

[G.A.M.E.R-X]

Go for it, SEGA... block all the foreigners, piss everyone off so we have an excuse to rally LOIC to an IRC bot and look for ACTUAL malicious shit to fuck off your target audience.
we will spam more shit, because there will be nothing to loose, lobby raids are fun!

right now, some kids doing techs in lobby, speed hacking and moving the occasional NPC in 1 lobby is hardly malicious.
regardless if you think its 'jeopardizing the English player base'

Prolly never gonna happen tho :p

Hate to break it to you, but this ain't back in the day on PSO or PSU. There's laws now to label those kinds of malicious acts cyber crimes and they can take legal action against the people the commit the acts quite easily.

So feel free to be a /b/tard when the US/EU servers launch, if you want serious legal repercussions up your ass over a video game that's your business.

Japan not going to the trouble of taking legal action is one thing, because there's too much legal red tape and cost. But uh yeah, when local servers come, they come with local authorities and local laws. Dumb kids can either learn the easy way or the hard way, how to behave.

[Renzer]

Hate to break it to you, but this ain't back in the day on PSO or PSU. There's laws now to label those kinds of malicious acts cyber crimes and they can take legal action against the people the commit the acts quite easily.

So feel free to be a /b/tard when the US/EU servers launch, if you want serious legal repercussions up your ass over a video game that's your business.

Japan not going to the trouble of taking legal action is one thing, because there's too much legal red tape and cost. But uh yeah, when local servers come, they come with local authorities and local laws. Dumb kids can either learn the easy way or the hard way, how to behave.

Actually I don't know if SEGA will give a shit enough to try to prosecute malicious acts. Based off PSO BB, PSU, PSP and PSP2, SEGA doesn't seem to care enough to try to combat the trolls for their western fans.

I want it to happen, I love the PSO franchise, and PSO2, but I have a feeling that US/EU servers are going to end up like the PSOBB servers, light-years behind, full of trolls, and broken.

[RocSage]

You're a naive, get a clue.

The idiot that's been playing with code on ship 2, Sziadan or whatever, has released a trainer on a public fucking forum for all to use and abuse. If you think that's not malicious intent you're fucking retarded.

There's no good excuse for putting the english playerbases ability to use the JP server in danger, or disrupting other players experiences.


I don't know what exactly you are talking about as a trainer/guide. Most of the stuff they are doing were long ago known about and I can't see how them writing posting is bad if it's what I think it is as it is commonly known info. I'm still not willing to say that he's being malicious, stupid, yes, malicious no.



Though I wouldn't expect someone as immature as you to understand that. After all, you deleted all the story translations because it went up your ass that you got corrected on translation errors and you refused to deal with it. So you decided to be a big baby about it instead of looking out for the communities best interest instead.

Stop talking. You're a fool.

Actually what happened was...
Wayu wrote up something
I stated I wasn't going to use something and gave reasons and apologized if I was coming off as confrontational
Wayu insulted me over and over again instead of explaining where I was wrong.
Kion got caught up more or less in the tides of things and made threats.
And I decided I don't take threats or continuous insults and as such "deleted" the information. My work. I can do that. I don't have to take anyone's shit and I definitely am not going to leave around things that will help those that mess with me.
That's not immature or foolish. That's called not helping people who don't appreciate it. I hold no loyalty to this community or any other especially since I've been screwed by several.

If I were stupid and childish as you say i am I would have deleted all the information without backing it up. If anything makes me a fool though it is responding to you.

[RocSage]

Then you are shockingly, irresponsibly naive. I guess that's all I've got to say to you at this point. Say what you like.

Nope. I just shockingly have faith that people aren't idiotic assholes, even though most evidence points to that they are.

[G.A.M.E.R-X]

I don't know what exactly you are talking about as a trainer/guide. Most of the stuff they are doing were long ago known about and I can't see how them writing posting is bad if it's what I think it is as it is commonly known info. I'm still not willing to say that he's being malicious, stupid, yes, malicious no.



Actually what happened was...
Wayu wrote up something
I stated I wasn't going to use something and gave reasons and apologized if I was coming off as confrontational
Wayu insulted me over and over again instead of explaining where I was wrong.
Kion got caught up more or less in the tides of things and made threats.
And I decided I don't take threats or continuous insults and as such "deleted" the information. My work. I can do that. I don't have to take anyone's shit and I definitely am not going to leave around things that will help those that mess with me.
That's not immature or foolish. That's called not helping people who don't appreciate it. I hold no loyalty to this community or any other especially since I've been screwed by several.

If I were stupid and childish as you say i am I would have deleted all the information without backing it up. If anything makes me a fool though it is responding to you.

True, you shouldnt respond to someone, if you have no idea wtf you're talking about.

A trainer, is a standalone cheat program. You must be pretty ignorant to not know something as simple as that. Either that or you're feigning ignorance to excuse your shitty defense of these code kiddies.

Like I said, you're naive, and you don't know enough about this situation to comment, let alone defend the asswipes ruining our chances in the JP servers.

So stop already. There is no legitimate justification for vandalizing segas property, the fact that you think there is, just exposes you as the entitled brat you are.

[Finalzone]

I wouldn't be surprised if SEGA canceled those two games because they are afraid of the western hackers and cheaters ruining those games too.

Well they have to stop developing the entire games because of their inability to properly made a well structured coding program on any system. In addition, Asian cheaters exist too, after all Japan is part of Asia.
On serious note, SEGA must review their own security process. The fact the same exploit still happen since PSOBB is unacceptable. Once again, Gameguard must be thrown out.

[RocSage]

True, you shouldnt respond to someone, if you have no idea wtf you're talking about.

A trainer, is a standalone cheat program. You must be pretty ignorant to not know something as simple as that. Either that or you're feigning ignorance to excuse your shitty defense of these code kiddies.

Like I said, you're naive, and you don't know enough about this situation to comment, let alone defend the asswipes ruining our chances in the JP servers.

So stop already. There is no legitimate justification for vandalizing segas property, the fact that you think there is, just exposes you as the entitled brat you are.

I'm so sorry I didn't what you meant by "trainer"
You're right. That is malicious.
I also wasn't defending them. I defend logic. You know, to withhold judgement till you have evidence to the contrary? I'm so glad that's not how our legal system works,

Also. That's not Naive. That is called being ignorant. To not have the information is to be ignorant of a situation, not Naive. You were ignorant of this fact now you're not.

[Vintasticvin]

Go for it, SEGA... block all the foreigners, piss everyone off so we have an excuse to rally LOIC to an IRC bot and look for ACTUAL malicious shit to fuck off your target audience.
we will spam more shit, because there will be nothing to loose, lobby raids are fun!

right now, some kids doing techs in lobby, speed hacking and moving the occasional NPC in 1 lobby is hardly malicious.
regardless if you think its 'jeopardizing the English player base'

Prolly never gonna happen tho :p

Ey stupid, go post that threat on the official forums or Sakai's blot NOT on a fan forum thatconsists of hardcore ragers.

[G.A.M.E.R-X]

I'm so sorry I didn't what you meant by "trainer"
You're right. That is malicious.
I also wasn't defending them. I defend logic. You know, to withhold judgement till you have evidence to the contrary? I'm so glad that's not how our legal system works,

Also. That's not Naive. That is called being ignorant. To not have the information is to be ignorant of a situation, not Naive. You were ignorant of this fact now you're not.

Its not ignorant to put faith in people that are vandalizing the property of others, its naive.

The only information you ever needed, to know they were malicious was already in front of your face because you knew they were vandalizing segas property. Yet you gave them the benefit of the doubt despite their malicious behavior. That's being naive.

[Pogs]

At this point there's not really anything to add that shouldn't already be inherently obvious.

Eventually, we'll all be locked out and foreign IP's wont get through. Face it, cheaters didn't care to begin with (Obviously, they cheat) and people don't often change, if ever. I don't expect miracles anymore than i expect people to just "wake up" see something (Like the TOS thing) And go "Well, it was fun for a while, but it's time to think about the whole community and stop acting like a faggot" - As it happens, i think a miracle would be more likely.

People are innately selfish and reluctant to change. Cheaters are cheaters, majoritvely selfish and destructive amongst many other things. That won't change. You can argue/disagree all you like i can't say i care. I can even claim to respect those that like to play the optimist and "see the good" in people. But i think the eventual IP ban will speak louder than anything anybody could counter-argue with.

Bottom line: There are no considerate cheaters.

[Renzer]

I think bottom line is well established by now.

Eventually, we'll all be locked out and foreign IP's wont get through. Face it, cheaters didn't care to begin with (Obviously, they cheat) and people don't often change, if ever.

I don't expect miracles anymore than i expect people to just "wake up" see something (Like the TOS thing) And go "Well, it was fun for a while, but it's time to think about the whole community and stop acting like a faggot" - As it happens, i think a miracle would be more likely.
I hate giving up like this, especially for a game I really do like. PSO2 IS my most anticipated game for the entire year, I don't want SEGA to just roll over and ignore the major issues.

The actions SEGA are using now is a foreshadowing of how terrible the US/EU servers are going to be. I would rather show my dissatisfaction with how SEGA is solving this problem, then just give up and hope for the best for the US/EU servers.

[Finalzone]

Everyone can get hacked I guess, and its not like SEGA has been running around with the same codes all these years, they probably change it often in hopes to prevent or minimize things like this. I would rather blame hackers for being this persistent in trying to jump through all of the loopholes, even if new ones prop up. It really takes a certain individual to be that dedicated to ruin things....

Welcome to Internet world, if crack keeps occurring despite multiple changing codes, then the entire design of program is fundamentally flawed, period. No amount of quick fixes will resolve that main issue about easily cracked software. Only solution is to replace the entire infrastructure with a better one with security in mind. Conclusion: Gameguard method does not work.

[Aewyn]

Nope. I just shockingly have faith that people aren't idiotic assholes, even though most evidence points to that they are.http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o305/Aewyn_Murayama/lols/Cereal20Guy20Squint202.png

[RocSage]

Its not ignorant to put faith in people that are vandalizing the property of others, its naive.

The only information you ever needed, to know they were malicious was already in front of your face because you knew they were vandalizing segas property. Yet you gave them the benefit of the doubt despite their malicious behavior. That's being naive.

You're wrong GAMER-X.
As I stated there is no evidence for me to say they are malicious. If you say they've made a program that allows people to do something like that then it's malicious an I was wrong. That lack of information make me ignorant of that information. Until there was proof that they were malicious, which the previous thing they said was not, then reason dictates that you give them the benefit of the doubt. That is not naive. That is logical.

Anyways that's besides the point. You know who they are and such so go report them. Pretty simple thing to do.

[Malifaux]

Actually, I was given the impression by some folks that Sega *is* using pretty much the exact same code, hence why the hackers have been able to pull off their little stunts again so easily-because it was the same shit that happened back in regular PSO way back when over a decade ago or so.

Edit: This does not mean I endorse or support hackers doing this crap. I wish they'd leave well enough alone and let people enjoy the game, but apparently this is how some people get their kicks. :/

[Halcyote]

itt: gamers take games too seriously

news at 11

[Jakosifer]

itt: gamers take games too seriously

news at 11

:v dis game is my life otherwise I'm just your everyday sucka. i in this game i am saving waifus and punching out space bugs. Thats right. I fist everything despite fists not being a true weapon type yet. Fisting just makes me so happy.

I CANT GO AROUND FISTING EVERYTHING IRL DON'T TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME

[Aewyn]

itt: gamers take games too seriously

news at 11

wtf repeat that news was on at 7

[EvilMag]

itt: gamers take games too seriously

news at 11

Already watched it on Gurhal Channel 5

[Halcyote]

Already watched it on Gurhal Channel 5
how eurocentric of me i didn't think about other timezones because amerikkka fuck yeah

[CelestialBlade]

That's funny, I thought we were on the Fearmongering channel.

What the hell do you guys want to do about it? Just hope for the best and keep playing, we're already breaking ToS anyway. Don't worry about things you can't change.

If everyone REALLY cared about not being banned we wouldn't parade around a certain patch so much....

[Aewyn]

This thread turned into something it didn't have to be, as expected of PSOW.

I'm disappointed in our community and a bit worried about the possible outcome because I've spent four games' worth of money on this game so far. If anything I've done so far was naive it was to expect that our community wouldn't put the kibosh on the fun zone if it had a chance. It might happen, it might not. So the notion that Sega is taking security seriously from now on is a welcome thing, at least. Or so they say. I'll believe them for now, since this is their game and they don't want to lose their grasp on it. Who would?

I'm not afraid of getting the ol' boot, but the prospect does make me rather annoyed. I can't see how that's unreasonable, personally.

[DreXxiN]

The good news is this isn't going to stop the hardcore fans from playing even if this does happen. The bad news is that also means the hackers and malicious users will still be able to play.

VPN's.

[G.A.M.E.R-X]

This thread turned into something it didn't have to be, as expected of PSOW.

I'm disappointed in our community and a bit worried about the possible outcome because I've spent four games' worth of money on this game so far. If anything I've done so far was naive it was to expect that our community wouldn't put the kibosh on the fun zone if it had a chance. It might happen, it might not. So the notion that Sega is taking security seriously from now on is a welcome thing, at least. Or so they say. I'll believe them for now, since this is their game and they don't want to lose their grasp on it. Who would?

I'm not afraid of getting the ol' boot, but the prospect does make me rather annoyed. I can't see how that's unreasonable, personally.

Not to pick on you here, but you were breaking the TOS by buying AC without being a resident of japan in the first place.

It would of been smarter to wait to invest in the game until the US release, or at least wait until the US release to see how foreign players are handled on the Jp server at that point.

You took the risk, if you end up losing the money you invested you only have yourself to blame for letting your impulses control you.

I don't think anything being sold for AC is remotely attractive or necessary enough to warrant gambling that money when I could lose it due to other players potentially costing me access to my investment. Makes more sense just to wait and see.

[RocSage]

This thread turned into something it didn't have to be, as expected of PSOW.


So, this thread is not the thread you want. It's the thread you deserve?

[Blizz3112]

Its still no reason to punish willing players who are paying to have fun in their games, G.A.M.E.R.X.. In this era, a lot of Corporations are jerks who do everything they can to squeeze the little money you have out of you. Customers are currently paying the price for that...

[Aewyn]

Not to pick on you here, but you were breaking the TOS by buying AC without being a resident of japan in the first place.

It would of been smarter to wait to invest in the game until the US release, or at least wait until the US release to see how foreign players are handled on the Jp server at that point.

You took the risk, if you end up losing the money you invested you only have yourself to blame for letting your impulses control you.

I don't anything being sold for AC remotely attractive or necessary enough to warrant gambling that money when I could lose it due to other players potentially costing me access to my investment. Makes more sense just to wait and see.Oh trust me, I don't disagree. That's why I mentioned it was naive to expect it to all pan out, but that remains to be seen.


So, this thread is not the thread you want. It's the thread you deserve?Sorry, I'm out of biscuits.

[\$/NIECCI\$/]

2nd excuse is BS, cheating and using offensive names and chat are already against the TOS, never knew sega would require 2 reasons to punish players.

In the end, all players use offensive languange, not just non jp players

i agree.. its all BS...my opinion(meaning you dont have to agree or argue)is it was and still is all about the #'s!! They let non jp ppl connect for opening to get the launch #'s. Now with the na/eu version on its way, they gonna want people to go there, many english speakers would opt to stay jp side do to better managment, hence lesser #'s. i mean come on you gonna "ip ban" everyone who isnt you, because of a few kids who dont know how to act, who does that? They going to punish all of us instead of banning the people at fault? its all BS!! (i dont even think they will do anything like that,probably just trying a scare tactic or something)
i read the forums,i dont post to much but i felt like ppl giving sega and the jp ppl way to much credit. im sure there are "bad" jp players so for ppl to sit there and say,"oh our culture is so bad compared to theres",get your heads out your ass plz!!! They're human just like us..eat,shit,breathe,and bleed. im sure they got there forums where ppl are complaining about ppl in there community aswell(if you dont think so,well i got this bridge....)Only differance i see between the english and the jp community is, they sweep there dirt, and we point fingers at eachother. Good job

people should be treated on individuality not what part of the globe they're from, theres "bad" people in all cultures as well as good ones

ppl make me lol when they talk about how ship 2 block 20 is full of scum, and there tired of the spammers,why not move blocks?maybe cuz you like the drama.lol...
so many blocks with so many dif ppl to play with and ppl still bitch..got to love gaming.
people should chill and have fun, pso2 is great!

[Sizustar]

Its still no reason to punish willing players who are paying to have fun in their games, G.A.M.E.R.X.. In this era, a lot of Corporations are jerks who do everything they can to squeeze the little money you have out of you. Customers are currently paying the price for that...

But no one is being punished.

[G.A.M.E.R-X]

Its still no reason to punish willing players who are paying to have fun in their games, G.A.M.E.R.X.. In this era, a lot of Corporations are jerks who do everything they can to squeeze the little money you have out of you. Customers are currently paying the price for that...

Sega made it clear in the TOS they did not want you as a non resident of Japan, to buy AC outside of their country.

Had people followed the rules from the outset, even if we all got IP banned, no one would be losing a dime. But people decided to write their own rules and did what they felt like. If they lose invested money due to an IP ban down the road, they'll only be reaping what they sowed themselves. They should of known better.

If and when Sega decides to lock out non Jp players, it won't be a 'punishment'. They never advertised their JP servers to people outside of japan; they did not ask us to play on them and they did not do anything to make doing so easier. They only allowed our presence, as guests.


Unfortunately, hardly anyone around, specially on these forums, sees it that way and believe they are entitled to do as they please, and continue to ruin it for the rest of us. They've worn out our welcome and now Sega has basically given one last verbal warning, which will shortly be followed by actions.

So if and when an IP ban happens, don't blame Sega. Blame your fellow players in the english community who forced Segas hand in the matter with their moronic and immature conduct.

[Zyrusticae]

Well, don't blame me for having the good faith that my money is as good as anyone else's and that the action of a few blowhards wouldn't come down on the rest of us.

I sure as hell do blame those asshats for being as dick-like as they are, though. I could say so many not-so-nice things about such people...

[ShadowDragon28]

on other topics I have silently strongly disagreed with some of on this Gamer X's comments but I chose not to post as to avoid arguements. But on this topic I sort of agree with the sentiment on this topic.

If some segments of the english speaking community would show some self-contol and not act like enitled asshats, flashing their stupid hentai Symbol art, or showing off their "hacks" (pissing off JP players with their "hacks"), then there wouldn't be disallowing of "foreign credit cards", or this warning from Sakai of a possible blanket IP ban.

I will continue to mentally pray a blanket IP ban will *not* happen. Ever.

[Jakosifer]

I'm just doing my best to avoid getting annoyed at the prospect of getting banned because a minority of dipshits ruining it for the majority. As much as I would like to say "shit happens", it shouldn't, people should learn how to not fucking suck. That requires changing a culture that thrives on being as annoying, selfish, and trollish as possible.

Yep, I got annoyed even though I just said I was trying to avoid getting annoyed what has happened to me psow I have become a bitcher.

[The Walrus]

We can still get AC regardless we just have to pay more to get webmoney. Which Sega should have no problem with. I've spent about $40 and I don't feel entitled to anything. All I do is play the game like everyone that isn't chatting in the lobbies all day not actually playing. If they ban us oh well. It'll be disappointing that they chose to try and eliminate the problem that way but they have every right to. I'll laugh when the script kiddies keep doing their thing though.
All I hope or is Sega to at least not ban us until after the new weapon types and classes are rolled out cause I want my damn double sabers :I

[Renzer]

All I hope or is Sega to at least not ban us until after the new weapon types and classes are rolled out cause I want my damn double sabers :I

To de-rail the subject.... lol

I wonder how mechguns are going to work..... Assault Rifles already work like mechguns (aka 3 shot burst). I wonder if mechguns are going to be full auto like in PSU.

[ShinMaruku]

I remember when somebody laughed when I said they lose money on you payin them when you ain't in Japan. :E

[Halcyote]

considering the amount of people who are still vehemently against being on the NA servers for [insert reason here], i don't think that assessment of psow's reaction would be that far off.

i mean... look what happened when people actually misread the initial announcement.

[gigawuts]

we all knew we could get banned when we started playing

i hope nobody would actually be surprised if it happened

also i can buy ac so even the great and infallible sakai is wrong~

[sugarFO]

But... but... my JP friends helped me write him a letter...

Sakai... read my letter... onegai!! T_T lol

[Keilyn]

I say it's political bullshit.

Ever held a job and had a manager ask to see you? Then the manager says "several people who shall remain nameless reported you undertaking action x"

Then one of two things happen,

A) you either suck it up and deal with being told of by a manager who has no written evidence, nor is compelled to produce any unnamed person, but in the end you are penalized and made to believe you did something wrong.

Or

B) You tell them you have the right to face your accuser and such person is not produced or nothing in writing is produced that you will take civil action. You remind the manager that since its a formal inquiry into your actions, that your rights allow you to question anything.

I actually feel that Sakai is just making a business move in Japan to appease the Japanese audience of the game by stating that a majority of problems are from overseas gamers, which I do not believe. Japanese are not angels, specially in video games, but Sakai is never going to say that Japanese cause problems because it would be like catering to foreigners and making Sakai to look like a traitor.

I do not believe he has any real evidence outside of a few examples that do not amount to anything major. Prepare to be eternally screwed...

However, Sakai did admit to knowing that overseas gamer do exist and that their money has been taken so unlike psujp where many went in and hid their identity in the registration form, the international court can be used to run a class action lawsuit against SEGA of Japan. The accusation would be knowingly closing up a software package to foreigners, knowing they have already legitimately applied and had money taken..

Sorry but a "for use in Japan only" sticker does not have higher precedence than the international court system they signed into as part of the surrender in the second world war.

You would not be suing because you can't play pso2. You would be suing because they know you paid your money into their system and did so by legitimately filling out the form and processing your card without applying safeguards, then simply expelling you later because of being a foreigner.

By international patent laws and product laws, a user registered to a game is subject to the first end user licensing agreement and TOS, not a changed agreement to apply against foreigners. If a user is a terminated without the game going down permanently or from simply a change in the TOS which invalidates certain players, not only are the gamer entitled to have their money refunded, they can seek punitive damages for discrimination.

And once again, one doesn't need a lawyer, the hearing alone prior to the trial and presenting the information is all a judge needs to see foul play and the law is so clear ad judiciary precedence is so solid a jury isn't needed to render a verdict in the matter.

I would just take all the information that you have including copies of the old Eula/TOS and bank statements as well, compile it all and combine it with sakai's message and declaration along with the updated TOS and fight it.

[Vintasticvin]

I say it's political bullshit.

Ever held a job and had a manager ask to see you? Then the manager says "several people who shall remain nameless reported you undertaking action x"

Then one of two things happen,

A) you either suck it up and deal with being told of by a manager who has no written evidence, nor is compelled to produce any unnamed person, but in the end you are penalized and made to believe you did something wrong.

Or

B) You tell them you have the right to face your accuser and such person is not produced or nothing in writing is produced that you will take civil action. You remind the manager that since its a formal inquiry into your actions, that your rights allow you to question anything.

I actually feel that Sakai is just making a business move in Japan to appease the Japanese audience of the game by stating that a majority of problems are from overseas gamers, which I do not believe. Japanese are not angels, specially in video games, but Sakai is never going to say that Japanese cause problems because it would be like catering to foreigners and making Sakai to look like a traitor.

I do not believe he has any real evidence outside of a few examples that do not amount to anything major. Prepare to be eternally screwed...

However, Sakai did admit to knowing that overseas gamer do exist and that their money has been taken so unlike psujp where many went in and hid their identity in the registration form, the international court can be used to run a class action lawsuit against SEGA of Japan. The accusation would be knowingly closing up a software package to foreigners, knowing they have already legitimately applied and had money taken..

Sorry but a "for use in Japan only" sticker does not have higher precedence than the international court system they signed into as part of the surrender in the second world war.

You would not be suing because you can't play pso2. You would be suing because they know you paid your money into their system and did so by legitimately filling out the form and processing your card without applying safeguards, then simply expelling you later because of being a foreigner.

By international patent laws and product laws, a user registered to a game is subject to the first end user licensing agreement and TOS, not a changed agreement to apply against foreigners. If a user is a terminated without the game going down permanently or from simply a change in the TOS which invalidates certain players, not only are the gamer entitled to have their money refunded, they can seek punitive damages for discrimination.

And once again, one doesn't need a lawyer, the hearing alone prior to the trial and presenting the information is all a judge needs to see foul play and the law is so clear ad judiciary precedence is so solid a jury isn't needed to render a verdict in the matter.

I would just take all the information that you have including copies of the old Eula/TOS and bank statements as well, compile it all and combine it with sakai's message and declaration along with the updated TOS and fight it.

Thats all fine and dandy but theres a problem with that lawsuit thing of yours..... Its gonna back fire cause most people have made fraudulent addresses upon registration so good luck with telling the court house about that.

[Sierhiet]

They don't really lose money on a per-transaction basis. That's not the problem they're having.

Lets say player X in Japan and player Y in the US both bought an equivalent amount of Arks Cash, and they both used proper Visa credit cards. The kind of processing used for this kind of transaction would mean that SEGA would get a very similar amount of revenue from both purchases.

This is how it should work, in theory, with the right kind of card. But that's in theory. In reality, a number of other factors enter into the equation when you don't set this up right. In reality, the transaction is not between you and SEGA. It's between your bank or credit card company and SoJ's billing system, which is either internal and built for local transactions or a local contractor. And there are myriad safeguards in place on the institutional level when you use credit cards to make international transactions with a distant vendor set up primarily to handle domestic charges. There are several layers of fraud protection that have been set up either for your protection or because legislation demands it.

In the above scenario, lots of banks have systems which will either A. flag the charges and disallow them during the charge process if they fit a specific patterns, or B. flag the charges and cancel them after the fact at a later date. It wouldn't happen if SEGA had set up their billing properly to handle international transactions, but they haven't. Why would they? They had no reason to assume any significant number of people would import. This is a big reason why many people could not use certain cards, and it's also the reason many people saw charges for purchases coming back to them while they kept the AC. It wasn't SEGA being generous and asking you to have your money back.

Well, guess what? SEGA noticed every time your money went back to you. And in most of those cases, they ended up with a casual inquiry pointed at them from the other end asking what the deal was. These things have to be dealt with for a reputable business, and it's a pain in the ass considering they've already lost money when it happens. And it sounds like they think a bunch of us are deliberately doing it, asking for chargebacks after buying AC, assuming SEGA can't do anything. I'd say it's mostly unintentional, but they lose time and money either way, so they're within their rights to cut us off.

But that's not the problem. As has been mentioned many times, you don't have to pay directly with your card. There are vendors in Asia with services similar to paypal who you can use. You pay a little extra, and SEGA doesn't suffer a big hassle. Problem solved.

The real problem is the impending IP block. And I say impending because there are only two possibilities. Either Sakai is bluffing and will never do it (which I personally doubt), or it will happen with 100% certainty within the next few months.

For all of the talk of importing being the golden way to play, the American PSO2 import community seems to be contain the absolute worst segment of the PSO community at large. Yes, I'm only talking about 10% of us; the remaining 90% are just average gamers trying to have fun. But in this case, it's a 10% so brazenly trollish and annoying that they do enough to color a group twenty times their size.

I think we need to openly talk about this at this point. I've played dozens of MMO's over more than ten years. I've seen horrible, nonstop trolling. I've heard people spout racist spam and nonstop garbage without pause in League of Legends ranked games and WoW trade chat, and I've seen far worse than that in small MMO's. Heck, I played Diablo 1 online for a long time, and I watched people use hacks on me which either killed me instantly or crashed my game, sometimes costing me all of my items. And somehow this one segment of the PSO2 community, particularly the entitled weaboo spammers who think they're an indispensable part of PSO fandom and history, are the most annoying players I've ever seen in any online game, without exaggeration. I would say they're not malicious, but I think many of us have noticed a sharp increase in the amount of elitist venom flowing through the PSO2 forums these days, usually from the same "I'm a PSO god" kind of people. It's a poisonous attitude to have.

And to understand why this means we're almost definitely cooked, you should understand the tone Sakai is taking. This isn't a warning shot "lets be reasonable in the future" kind of warning he gave us. Japanese culture dictates that a person like him be endlessly apologetic and assume all responsibility for ills the players suffer. If you read their releases regularly, you'll see an apology every few lines for every small problem, and if he forgets to apologize for something one day, he will literally apologize for forgetting to apologize the next time. For him to come out and speak in the way he's speaking basically means we're already five steps onto the plank, and he's ready with his sword at our backs to push us over at any moment.

Preach. And thank you.

[Polly]

so food luck with telling the court house about that.

I want some food luck. :(

[supersonix9]

Bottom line is, I don't want to get banned. I don't want some asshole screwing my experience up for me. After playing for 15 days worth of game time, it's not something that I'm really going to be pleased about.

[Zalana]

I believe the sky is falling! Sounds similar to FFXI in some aspects but, no IP banning. :o

[Vintasticvin]

I want some food luck. :(

>_< I meant to have good not food! But yeah Have fun telling the court of justice about your fraud addresses.

[sugarFO]

>_< I meant to have good not food! But yeah Have fun telling the court of justice about your fraud addresses.

Not everyone put SEGA HQ though. Tenso addresses aren't necessarily fraud, they're used as a middleman for any shipping related to Japan? I don't think any MMO asks for address when wanting CC info.

[Vintasticvin]

Not everyone put SEGA HQ though. Tenso addresses aren't necessarily fraud, they're used as a middleman for any shipping related to Japan? I don't think any MMO asks for address when wanting CC info.

If you're buying something yes they will ask for address and zipcode.

[The Walrus]

We could always try to get ahold of whatever the script kiddies are using and do a mass emailing where we get someone to write a letter in Japanese explaining that we, the foreign player base, wanted to do something to help Sega fix the mess caused by the script kiddies along with the trainer or whatever the kids are using nowadays. Maybe then Sakai will actually seriously do something about the problem to actually fix it for real.

Just an idea though.

[supersonix9]

We could always try to get ahold of whatever the script kiddies are using and do a mass emailing where we get someone to write a letter in Japanese explaining that we, the foreign player base, wanted to do something to help Sega fix the mess caused by the script kiddies along with the trainer or whatever the kids are using nowadays. Maybe then Sakai will actually seriously do something about the problem to actually fix it for real.

Just an idea though.

If it means I don't get IP banned, then why not?

[Vintasticvin]

If it means I don't get IP banned, then why not?

You know you are very selfish thinking of only yourself and not the rest of the importer community. Wheres Gamer-X when you need him or her? :(

[TetsuyaHikari]

You know you are very selfish thinking of only yourself and not the rest of the importer community. Wheres Gamer-X when you need him or her? :(

I think he was kind of, you know... speaking on behalf of all of us here when saying that. If we can help SoJ understand how these problems are taking place, then that can only help us in establishing a good relationship with them so they understand not all of us are malicious.

[supersonix9]

You know you are very selfish thinking of only yourself and not the rest of the importer community. Wheres Gamer-X when you need him or her? :(

I'm joking. I'm perfectly aware of the amount of input people have put into fighting these exploiters and malicious users. I realize that there are also people who have put way more money and time into the game than I have.

I also feel like I have the right to be angry about something that affects me in a negative way when I didn't do anything to cause it.

[Dan Maku]

So the hackers ARE English players.

Stupid baka gaijin and stupid people on these forums trying to say otherwise.

[Aewyn]

If you're buying something yes they will ask for address and zipcode.From my understanding of Japanese it's asking for your address, not your residence. It is almost always acceptable to list a PO Box in that case, even if it's a bit shady.

Better than putting Sega HQ's address.

[Vintasticvin]

So the hackers ARE English players.

Stupid baka gaijin and stupid people on these forums trying to say otherwise.

Are you actually Japanese or one of the many idiotic weaboos that infest this and the anime/ Manga communities :-?

[Dan Maku]

Are you actually Japanese or one of the many idiotic weaboos that infest this and the anime/ Manga communities :-?

Neither nor. I always refer to idiotic westerns in this game, including weeaboos, as "baka gaijin".

[Vintasticvin]

Neither nor. I always refer to idiotic westerns in this game, including weeaboos, as "baka gaijin".

Its more than the westerners being idiot foreigners, what about the north and south hmm? They could be up to no good and on Jpso:2

[ShadowDragon28]

To any people using “Cheat Engine” or other “hacking” software, that may see this message, Please for everyone’s sake, Stop using “hacks” You had your fun showing off etc, enough is enough. Please don’t ruin every US/EU players’ access to servers by pushing Sakai to IP ban all non-JP players. Please, just stop.

[Vintasticvin]

To any people using “Cheat Engine” or other “hacking” software, that may see this message, Please for everyone’s sake, Stop using “hacks” You had your fun showing off etc, enough is enough. Please don’t ruin every US/EU players’ access to servers by pushing Sakai to IP ban all non-JP players. Please, just stop.

Please post this message in other english communities cause its more than just the people in this forum that may be doing it.

[TetsuyaHikari]

To any people using “Cheat Engine” or other “hacking” software, that may see this message, Please for everyone’s sake, Stop using “hacks” You had your fun showing off etc, enough is enough. Please don’t ruin every US/EU players’ access to servers by pushing Sakai to IP ban all non-JP players. Please, just stop.

As much as I appreciate the effort, you do realize this is falling on deaf ears... right? I mean, if all it took was a simple, "please stop", these guys wouldn't even exist any more. They do this because this is their idea of fun.

They're beyond reasoning with, so as much as I'd love for them to change their ways with a little persuasion, I have to be realistic here. The best thing you can do is report them if you catch them in the act. I mean really crack down on them.

You see someone inquiring about how to cheat, hack, etc.? Report them. You see someone showing off an offensive symbol art (you know which ones I'm talking about), report them. You actually witness a hack? Report them.

The only way the problem is going to go away is if we pull together and and slap the biggest band-aid we can find over it to seal the wound for as long as possible so SoJ isn't focused on it any more and won't consider banning the innocent players just for the sake of getting rid of this group of jackasses that want to try and "prove something" by pushing the envelope as far as they can.

[ShadowDragon28]

It's better than not asking at all.

[Keilyn]

Would be better to sue internationally and lose. Then we can take the case and say "if internationally one can change a TOS and cut service, then the world can do the same to the Japanese, so much for their economy"

And if you think only none Japanese use cheat engine.., just remember that Asians own the world in coding cheat devices and ruining games, specially those Chinese and Korean groups that make RMT sites just to take advantage of gamers along with the U.S dollar, the euro, the pound and the yen.

Don't believe me? Answer yourselves how many Americans in their right mind given their track record of sticking to English would play a game in Japan and try to cheat their way through it? How many would stick to it? Look at PSO. Not that many Americans compared to the other populations play pso2 in japan, unless they are die hard PSO fans and there are extremely few phantasy star fans who are willing to play in Japan, let alone cheat in Japan, this forum is solid proof.

[G.A.M.E.R-X]

Would be better to sue internationally and lose. Then we can take the case and say "if internationally one can change a TOS and cut service, then the world can do the same to the Japanese, so much for their economy"



Holy shit please drop the fucking entitled over dramatic attitude


SoJ is in no way obligated to allow english western players on the Jp servers of the game, its nice enough that they haven't flat out IP banned western players now that the eng release is confirmed.

Its their game, their servers and the JP servers aren't intended for western players and they can IP ban everyone if they so choose. Don't like it? Too bad, get over it. Or play something else.

You can't always get your way, so tough shit.

[TetsuyaHikari]

It's better than not asking at all.

Actually, no, it's not. It would be better if you didn't even give the time of the day. Hackers can be treated as an 'internet bully'. All you did by asking them to stop was let them know that they are bothering you.

Now that they know they are bothering you, they're surely going to keep doing it since you have asked them to stop. While your method may work on some, in this case, it has the opposite of the desired effect.

So once again, no... it was not better than not asking at all.

[ShadowDragon28]

reporting them will only further encourage Sakai to further consider a blanket IP ban. Just because some "hackers" may not listen to reason or politely asking them to refrain, doesn't mean all will "not listen".

It's only making a request, nothing more, I'm not showing that it "bothering me". If I wanted to show that I'm "bothered" I'd post "Goddamit you fucking hackers knock it off fuck you all you fucking pussies!" Which was not what I posted neither was it implied by my post.

Sure my request may fall on deaf ears. But being rude back to them and insulting them doesn't do anything. Reporting them to Sega stop them? Only temporarily, they just make new Sega ID accounts, use a proxy, then return to keep on "hacking".

Ignoring them does nothing as well as they come back and show off their "hacks" again.

So what is there to be done? Nothing else I can think of.

[Enforcer MKV]

Actually, no, it's not. It would be better if you didn't even give the time of the day. Hackers can be treated as an 'internet bully'. All you did by asking them to stop was let them know that they are bothering you.

Now that they know they are bothering you, they're surely going to keep doing it since you have asked them to stop. While your method may work on some, in this case, it has the opposite of the desired effect.

So once again, no... it was not better than not asking at all.

Then again, the way this topic has gone, they're pretty well alerted, I'd say.

[Valymer]

Then again, the way this topic has gone, they're pretty well alerted, I'd say.

lol :yes:

[TetsuyaHikari]

reporting them will only further encourage Sakai to further consider a blanket IP ban. Just because some "hackers" may not listen to reason or politely asking them to refrain, doesn't mean all will "not listen".

Ummm... no. Reporting them will weed out the problem. If we do nothing at all and they have to find out we did nothing to try and make the community a better place, that's when they will decide to I.P. ban us. Don't encourage them. All you have to do is quietly submit a form and let SoJ handle the rest.

Saying all this, "please stop" nonsense is really just a waste of breath. Solving this through civilized means is a lost cause, so I wouldn't even bother going that route.


It's only making a request, nothing more, I'm not showing that it "bothering me". If I wanted to show that I'm "bothered" I'd post "Goddamit you fucking hackers knock it off fuck you all you fucking pussies!" Which was not what I posted neither was it implied by my post.

I realize it's only making a request, but so is asking murderers to stop murdering people and rapists to stop raping people. I'm telling you it's pointless. These people don't listen to reason, nor do they give a rat's ass about how it will affect you.

Also, you can be bothered in many different ways. I'm bothered by the whole ordeal, but I don't have to say anything like you just described. That's a bit extreme, honestly.


Sure my request may fall on deaf ears. But being rude back to them and insulting them doesn't do anything. Reporting them to Sega stop them? Only temporarily, they just make new Sega ID accounts, use a proxy, then return to keep on "hacking".

I'm not telling you to be rude back to them. I'm telling you to report them. It's simple. Yes, they can create new accounts, use a proxy or whatever to keep returning, but if that's the reason behind why you won't report them, then how about this? While we're at it, let's ditch the idea of a jail system for criminals.

I mean, they're going to just keep coming back anyway. There's no way to stop them permanently, so we might as well just not bother and let them continue to roam free. Look at the big picture, man.


Ignoring them does nothing as well as they come back and show off their "hacks" again.

So what is there to be done? Nothing else I can think of.

As I already said before. Report them. That's all you can do, really. I'm not asking you to ignore them.

I'm asking you to stop giving them attention by pleading with them as if they're terrorists that have your game hostage. They're not going to listen to your demands, so it's not worth trying to reason with them. Just report them and move on.


Then again, the way this topic has gone, they're pretty well alerted, I'd say.

Pretty much. Another win for the hackers and other troublemakers today, it seems. You stop feeding the monster and it will eventually die or find another place to get food from.

Unfortunately, it seems some of the people here want to keep it as a pet.

[yuiri]

note

ToS change also are to adress to the RMT bot and the RMT traders

不正行為=unauthorized,illigal, cheat action.
meaning not just the US Hackers but the RMT bots and the RMT traders.

just a re-cap

they stated they are not planning to ip block non-japan players since there are alredy many accessing and playing but if they have continuous problems with these unauthorized cheat, they will.


also payment option = my american express works well anywhere on JP stores.

[SolRiver]

The industry as whole need to catch up on security measures.

It had been predicted that hacker population are on the rise like 3 years or more ago, yet still many companies choose to ignore it.

Meh, imo this is a power out of the communities' reach. This is between the blackhat hackers and the companies. It is like a war with community as refuges. When was the last time a war was stopped because some refuge begged?

We should just do what's best for the community and for ourselves instead of worrying about this war. (not like you guys are not already doing that)

(as for RMT... i'm sure we all know much about this subject...)

[ShadowDragon28]

Wow. Just wow.

Yeah, just keep on reporting them, show me how their bans have permanently stopped them from making a new Sega ID, using a proxy, and returning to the game to "hack" some more and show off those hacks again and again? Show how that has permanently stopped them? Well as far as I can see, it hasn't.

[The Walrus]

It will at least show them that there are people willing to try and put a stop to them at least temporarily.

[funkyskunk]

Here's an idea, report them, in English.

[TetsuyaHikari]

Wow. Just wow.

Yeah, just keep on reporting them, show me how their bans have permanently stopped them from making a new Sega ID, using a proxy, and returning to the game to "hack" some more and show off those hacks again and again? Show how that has permanently stopped them? Well as far as I can see, it hasn't.

Wow. Just wow.

Yeah, just keep on pleading with them, show me how your cries have permanently stopped them from making a new Sega ID, using a proxy, and returning to the game to "hack" some more and show off those hacks again and again? Show how that has permanently stopped them? Well as far as I can see, it hasn't.

It works both ways, man.

tl;dr: Reporting > pleading

[CaliburxZero]

PSO 2 will IP banning non Japanese connections if the hacking continues. Obviously it will, because the people who do have ecstasy in ruining things for everyone. Sakai said this himself. This may not be clearly stated, but its quite obvious what the "drastic option" will be. Here is a link to this news: http://bumped.org/psublog/sakai-addresses-the-tos-change-and-future-updates/

Thoughts? Comments? Does anybody have any solid proof that something like this won't happen?

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Pleading with criminals to stop committing crimes... If it were that easy we wouldn't need prisons.

[The Walrus]

There's already a thread (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199658) for this just so ya know

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Yes, and the more attention you bring to this, the more rewarding you make it for the hackers to continue doing what they're doing.

[Keilyn]

wow, amazing how most do not know how much hackers have actually helped the tech world. In fact, it seems people have been watching too many movies or feeding into too many stereotypes. Don't confuse a Script-Kiddie with a true-hacker.

Trust me, if a true hacker wanted, they would do whatever they wanted with PSO2 and leave no real trace of their actions. Creating Proxies, using cheat-bots and finding some rather small exploit in a game that should be patched up upon discovery by SEGA = Kiddie and Childish stuff. Not something that a real hacker would take credit or really give a damn about.

Something hackers do for fun is Bios hack hardware said to be "unbreakable." In fact most hackers are so bored and want a challenge that they actually build a Linux Box, with certain program and configurations to launch a Puzzle. Then their objective is to crack the system. Many hackers feel a lot of systems are too easy and not worthy a challenge that its really a *yawn* job.

Also, hackers today know that hardware hacking is where its at! From Memory Injection to breaking packet protection to even the famed Rainbow Tables. So yeah...

Also, I regret to inform most of you that a lot of the top security experts in the field that receive top dollar from corporations as independent analyst and security experts are good at catching hackers because they themselves were hackers once. It takes a better hacker to catch a good hacker....and I don't mean the amateur's who think they are the kings of brute-forcing every gate they come across.

Trust me, if PSO-2 can easilly be hacked by children, it makes me wonder how much SEGA put in their budget to protect their own proprietary work along with the userbase subscribed to it. If their solution is "Ban all foreigners" then it makes me wonder tons...

I still wonder if the game is F2P how the US/EU versions will be treated.

Also, believe it or not...

I like it when script kiddies and kids attack software created by a multibillion dollar corporation who acts like their code is invincible. Its a kind of digital scrutiny that proves just how broken software really is, and it serves to me as a public opinion and message to the company to go fix their software for the sake of the consumer.

[NoiseHERO]

My god I've never seen the community get THIS pathetic.

Even I'm starting to enjoy it now...

[Valymer]

Trust me, if PSO-2 can easilly be hacked by children, it makes me wonder how much SEGA put in their budget to protect their own proprietary work along with the userbase subscribed to it.


I doubt they spent anywhere near the amount that Blizzard did - not that it matters much:

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1112673799/blizzard-hacked-081012/

Also, no one is calling these PSO2 abusers "world-class hackers," I'd imagine most people know the difference between the two. "Hacker" has just been a commonly-used word for this kind of thing in gaming since...well, since games have been around, basically.

[ShadowDragon28]

lol what the fuck ever. Keep on reporting them and further encourage Sakai to perma-ban all non-JP players sure, whatever "floats your boat" man.

[G.A.M.E.R-X]

I like it when script kiddies and kids attack software created by a multibillion dollar corporation who acts like their code is invincible. Its a kind of digital scrutiny that proves just how broken software really is, and it serves to me as a public opinion and message to the company to go fix their software for the sake of the consumer.

1. Cool story bro, I'm sure you'd be singing the same dick sucking tune if they got your info and used it to rip you off too, right? Malicious actions are never justifiable, nor is it a proper means to an end when it comes to 'helping' a company fix their security. Its about as helpful as your neighbor kicking in your door while you're away on vacation, because he personally felt it was going to happen, maybe, at some point if you didn't get a reinforced 5 foot thick lead vault door installed. The only people that think they're helping by doing this shit, are self absorbed morons. They don't do it to help anyone, they do it for personal attention because they're needy lonely losers.

2. Nobody thinks the retards using cheat engine are hackers. The word hacker's just shorter than 'gameshark kiddie', so everyone uses it instead.

3. Stop passively praising these idiots actions, it makes you look retarded.

[TetsuyaHikari]

lol what the fuck ever. Keep on reporting them and further encourage Sakai to perma-ban all non-JP players sure, whatever "floats your boat" man.

lol k

and you go ahead and keep pleading with the terrorists. Maybe if you say, "please with a cherry on top" they will stop :lol:

[ShadowDragon28]

kids seeking attention/using a glorified Gameshark program to show off and gain attention =/= "terrorists".

Making a request to those that *might* listen is not "pleading" with them.

[Enforcer MKV]

Hasn't this gone on long enough?

Mods???

[Totori]

No, but point being. Simply telling the ones who are taking fun hacking and showing off. I seriouly doubt they'll listen to "Please stop!" That' pointless and stupid, not to mention a waste of time.

Reporting is what was asked, if you can't do that. Then don't worry about some "other" solution to help the server. What ever happens, just does.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Hasn't this gone on long enough?

Mods???

Mods really are being slack, back in the days of PSU every 5th post of mine would get modded or something...

[HiOc]

Just report them. If they get banned enough, they'll eventually lose interest.

[EvilMag]

Just report them. If they get banned enough, they'll eventually lose interest.

This, is it really that hard? If you don't report him, it shows to Sakai that we don't care about them cheating on their server.

[Arika]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WAO-kl3K6k

and someone just posted this vid hax tech the same day =_=

[Kimil Adrayne]

Mods really are being slack, back in the days of PSU every 5th post of mine would get modded or something...

I got perma banned for the term "Desu" back then.

[NoiseHERO]

All techs pso2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WAO-kl3K6k)

and someone just posted this vid hax tech the same day =_=

This was like almost a week ago. But some evil douche pulling this into light after Sakai's warning would sound accurate.

And sad.

And funny.

Fusad?

Sunny?

Saffy?

[Kimil Adrayne]

This was like almost a week ago. But some evil douche pulling this into light after Sakai's warning would sound accurate.

And sad.

And funny.

Fusad?

Sunny?

Saffy?

Some evil douche? I say SEGA are the douches for not making the game harder to crack, and not doing anything to fix these hacks. Ip banning them really does nothing, because If they want to they'll come back with a proxy.

The regional Ip ban will do nothing.

[Arika]

Actually, the tech video is all client side, and it is easy to mess it around with that. It has no affect to other players tho nor anything that is server side tho. It is all visual only.

In FF14, I use to do some file swapping (manually with out tool) to see some unreleased spell and skill before it actually released too. Even with that kind of security game where anything is server-connect to prevent abuse, they still has this as client side, so the tech swap file in PSO2 will never get fix too. (altho it is no need to fix, when it is only visual)

However, this and that is different. Since sakai already has his eyes on people who abused his game. I think this video should get remove, let's help report inappropriate flag it to go down.