Why I believe the 3 new classes are simply upgraded versions (PART 2)

[Zipzo]

In September, 3 new classes and 5 new weapon categories are going to be implemented into the game. The new classes are in similar line with the 3 existing classes consisting of close range combat, long distance combat, and tech and you’ll be able to use the new weapon categories with these classes. In order to access these new classes, you must be level 30 in either Hunter, Ranger, or Force, and clear a specific client order. When you change to the new classes you’ll start at level 1.

You can't seriously tell me you wouldn't feel as vindicated as I do if you were me based on this (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198385).

[Sp-24]

/topic (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2808523&postcount=2)

[Zipzo]

/topic (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2808523&postcount=2)
Your post makes no relevant point.

The content is almost to a "T" what I predicted it as, except for starting over at level 1. I didn't foresee but that's a minor detail that I never attempted to draw out (major in terms of effort required). The use of the word "class" and "subclass" in this circumstance is irrelevant.

[Slidikins]

I thought there were going to be subclasses from the moment Hunter's tree specified that skill only works with PAs and not Technics. That only told me that there will be an opportunity for Hunters to use techs through a subclass.

I think at this point it's an accepted fact that the new classes are either completely new that you start from Lv1 (like PSU) or extensions of your current tree (e.g. most korean MMOs).

[Zipzo]

I thought there were going to be subclasses from the moment Hunter's tree specified that skill only works with PAs and not Technics. That only told me that there will be an opportunity for Hunters to use techs through a subclass.

I think at this point it's an accepted fact that the new classes are either completely new that you start from Lv1 (like PSU) or extensions of your current tree (e.g. most korean MMOs).There's no if/and/or about it. The developer addressed it himself.

[Vashyron]

Or you know, they are classes specialising in the new weapon types and they want to force you trough the old classes before you can have a go at them, THEN in the future you get Sub Class choices.

[Crimson Exile]

They either start from lvl 1 or are subclasses makes no difference to me. You either play it or you don't.

[DemonMike]

Sakai confirmed, check out the Bumped blog for all the information from his new post.

Zipzo called it correctly, props! I'm surprised they're not sub classes though.

[ScottyMango]

swish

So they actually confirmed it's not subclasses?

Then wth was "_UB_LASS" and the subclass menu from the alpha?

Edit: I can't really find anything on Bumped saying it's not subclasses. Only the requirements to use the classes and how they vaguely work. Link?

[eharima]

how can we sell more exp boosters and skill tree resets?

huehuehue

[Zyrusticae]

This... really isn't worth arguing about.

Really.

Of all the trivial shit...

[Vashyron]

Sakai confirmed, check out the Bumped blog for all the information from his new post.

Zipzo called it correctly, props! I'm surprised they're not sub classes though.

Nothing mentioned about them being advanced classes, just new classes.

Then put two and two together that in the future you will have be able to mix two class choices to make the "Sub Classes."

[Zipzo]

They either start from lvl 1 or are subclasses makes no difference to me. You either play it or you don't.
I quoted the exact note from Sakai in the OP. You start from level 1 as an upgraded version of a Hunter/Force/Ranger. This has nothing to do with wanting to play or not?


Or you know, they are classes specialising in the new weapon types and they want to force you trough the old classes before you can have a go at them, THEN in the future you get Sub Class choices.Haha, yeah, you can always sleeve your ideas as a pipe dream if you want, but maybe you'll take my predictions with more than a grain of salt in the future.


Nothing mentioned about them being advanced classes, just new classes.

Then put two and two together that in the future you will have be able to mix these classes to make Sub Classes.

It doesn't matter what they're called. It's what the classes were going to be. You must get the basic class to level 30, in order to start at level 1 with the new "upgraded" version of the basic class. You can call it a sub class, an advanced class, a super class or a mega class for all I care, I was still on point.

[DoubleCannon]

This is good news to me, but only if your current class carry's over the skill tree it has invested making it worth going back to level 1 and grind up just to use the new weapons, either way im screwed because double sabers are my weapon of choice since PSO1!

I also wonder how it will effect requirements for maps if you do carry over the skill tree considering you would be OP if you were forced to do forest dark extermination until level 5 again lol. Only time will tell on how this will plan out

[Vashyron]

It's funny because no where does it mention these are Advanced Classes.

[ScottyMango]

Haha, yeah, you can always sleeve your ideas as a pipe dream if you want, but maybe you'll take my predictions with more than a grain of salt in the future.

black kettles, etc. The blog post doesn't say anything about whether or not it's subclasses. It only says the requirements to use it... and of course it's going to start at level 1.

If there aren't subclasses, then why was there a subclass menu in the Alpha, and why did sakai hint the phrase "_UB_LASS"?

What else could it possibly be?

[Slidikins]

Whatever the classes are, I hope they don't make the base classes obsolete like they did in PSU. You shouldn't have to start fresh if you want a "super" Hunter, it should just add more to your tree.

[Zipzo]

It's funny because no where does it mention these are Advanced Classes.
The blog post doesn't say anything about whether or not it's subclasses.

Okay, I'm going to stop repeating myself after this post because I'm getting tired of rephrasing the same thing over and over since the beginning of the thread...it doesn't matter what they are called, it was never an argument about what they would be called, because that's irrelevant. It was about what kind of classes they would be.

Please, for your children, comprehend this and don't respond with a similar post that you have been so far because all it does is exercise your missing of the point. I never even used the word "advanced class" in my OP of the first thread. You're drawing that out of a hat.

[Ana-Chan]

Sakai confirmed, check out the Bumped blog for all the information from his new post.

Zipzo called it correctly, props! I'm surprised they're not sub classes though.

This makes me wonder, why do people in general believe that it can't be both.
3 new classes for the new weapon/tech types, and sub classes.
Without seperate class/SP levels, they would have to redo the current class skill trees and put even more pressure on your SP. Forces currently need to most to max their skill tree (something like 193 SP to get everything to max on it).
So to me at least, the classes for the new weapons/techs so that SP is not as much of an issue, and sub classes to mix and match. Since on another blog post, he did hint heavily at sub classes too.
Ah well, C82 starts today, and I think SEGA has a booth there, so maybe more news will come from that.


It's funny because no where does it mention these are Advanced Classes.

To be honest, I don't think they are advanced now. They are just classes with different specialisations IMO. But well, time will tell.

[Slidikins]

It doesn't matter what they are called, it was never an argument about what they would be called, because that's irrelevant. It was about what kind of classes they would be.

It matters because everyone in this thread is using them to refer to two different systems:

Subclass: Keep your current tree and add branches below for the new weapons/etc. For example, the decisions you made as a Hunter stick but you're free to grab Double Saber Gear with your new points.

Advanced Class: Completely new tree independent of the base class. May not even overlap with the old skills, but has access to new goodies.

[DoubleCannon]

Now, let's talk about the future plans of this time. In large-scale update in September, three new classes, new weapons category five species will be implemented. This class will be a new class with the same rank for a class of said current, new weapon category will be available only in this class. For the new class, class 3 is that the proximity, distance, method of attack, the particular order to clear the client received in the later class level 30 Hunter, Ranger, of each force, so that changes can be made ​​to the new class will be. It will be played from level 1 to change the class, you can begin to play with play with your new Hunter, Ranger, or the Force.

Well regardless I am convinced you are a more specialized hunter, ranger or force not a combination.. this kind of does not convince me at all you can be say hunter + force combo

[Vashyron]

Okay, I'm going to stop repeating myself after this post because I'm getting tired of rephrasing the same thing over and over since the beginning of the thread...it doesn't matter what they are called, it was never an argument about what they would be called, because that's irrelevant. It was about what kind of classes they would be.

Please, for your children, comprehend this and don't respond with a similar post that you have been so far because all it does is exercise your missing of the point. I never even used the word "advanced class" in my OP of the first thread. You're drawing that out of a hat.

Funny again because I was using the term Advanced Classes because you are calling these classes Upgraded versions.

[Zipzo]

It matters because everyone in this thread is using them to refer to two different systems:

Subclass: Keep your current tree and add branches below for the new weapons/etc. For example, the decisions you made as a Hunter stick but you're free to grab Double Saber Gear with your new points.

Advanced Class: Completely new tree independent of the base class. May not even overlap with the old skills, but has access to new goodies.Firstly, as I said, I never in my original thread said anything about what type of new "class" it would be. I simply said whatever they were, they'd be upgraded versions of our current classes. And they are. I am correct. Moving on.

Nextly, you're not exactly using the Webster definition for the terms. "Subclass" and "Advanced class" can refer to a slew of different MMORPG class-based mechanics, not just the ones you decided to roll with in this post.


Funny again because I was using the term Advanced Classes because you are calling these classes Upgraded versions.Holy heck, am I the only one in this thread that doesn't see how this guy can't understand what's going on?

[ScottyMango]

Okay, I'm going to stop repeating myself after this post because I'm getting tired of rephrasing the same thing over and over since the beginning of the thread...it doesn't matter what they are called, it was never an argument about what they would be called, because that's irrelevant. It was about what kind of classes they would be.

So.. you're saying they ARE called sub-classes, but they don't actually work like subclasses, because that's not what you want them to be?

Why would they call a higher-tier class a sub-class? Why would they hint at "sub-classes" and then give something that totally isn't a sub-class?

"I am correct." So much blind confidence based on a blog-post which is basically re-worded information of things we've already speculated on a thousand times. It just looks like you saw a blog post that didn't actually confirm sub-classes (or deny them) and got a little excited.

[RocSage]

If there are subclasses and there are 3 new classes and the sub classes need to be leveled up, why wouldn't the classes and sub-classes be the same thing? As in any class can take the position of main and any can take the position of sub, like FFXI.

[The Walrus]

^

Exactly what I was thinking

[Vashyron]

So sure of yourself that they are upgraded classes. :>


If there are subclasses and there are 3 new classes and the sub classes need to be leveled up, why wouldn't the classes and sub-classes be the same thing? As in any class can take the position of main and any can take the position of sub, like FFXI.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say.

[Deadleewar]

What I think everyone needs to do is look at the past Phantasy Star games and see if they had sub classes or extra classes besides Hunter, Ranger, and Force. Obviously PSO 1 n 2 didn't, I think PSU did, but I never played it so I don't really know. PSO2 is basically a combination of PSO ideas and PSU ideas, so they will most likely look back to their roots when creating new content. I honestly think Hunters should be able to wield double sabers and twin daggers, but who knows...

[Zipzo]

So.. you're saying they ARE called sub-classes, but they don't actually work like subclasses, because that's not what you want them to be?

Why would they call a higher-tier class a sub-class? Why would they hint at "sub-classes" and then give something that totally isn't a sub-class?I have no problem calling it a subclass. You can call it whatever you want. Why are you focusing on what they are called when that's not the basis for which I was correct in my OT?

Dangit, I'm repeating myself like I said I wouldn't.

The point is that these new classes are (potentially, after you level it) a more superior version of your basic class.

[Slidikins]

Nextly, you're not exactly using the Webster definition for the terms. "Subclass" and "Advanced class" can refer to a slew of different MMORPG class-based mechanics, not just the ones you decided to roll with in this post.

No, I'm rolling in the definitions that I'm gathering from the responses in this thread. There's a huge comprehension gap between most of the posters here, and the thread is moving quite fast, but here's what I understand:

FACT: There are new classes that will utilize the new weapons.
FACT: You have to get a class (let's call it a base class) to Lv30 and complete a Client Order to unlock said class(es).
FACT: The new class start at "Lv1."

SPECULATION: Is the new class a "sub class" that adds a tree to the "base class?" Meaning, do you keep your 30-45 SP in Hunter (depending on level) and get more SP from your subclass to spend on the new tree? ...

Example: Ragnarok Online allowed your 1st class to change to 2nd class at Job Level 40, but you were more than welcome to grind to JLv50 for the extra 10 points. Max level here is 40, yet you can change at 30. Will there be a reason to max out Hunter/Ranger/Force?

OR is it an "advance class" that has nothing to do with the "base class" but has some incentive that makes it worth switching over (e.g. better stats, better skills).

Example: PSU used the base classes as requirements only. They had no effect on your specialized classes beyond that. But playing a specialized class didn't require going all the way back to Lv1, only your class level reset. I personally don't think many people will be happy with having to start back in Normal Forest.

The facts aren't being argued right now. In fact, little is being argued. People are simply noting that while Sakai has revealed a bit of juicy information, a lot of the details are still blurry and that it might be too early to say "I called it."

[NoiseHERO]

I thought this thread was why YOU believe the 3 new classes are whatever?

Not why you think everyone should believe the same thing...

Or why they should waste their time getting you to believe otherwise...

Oh right I'm on an online forum for videogaemsh.

[Vashyron]

The point is that these new classes are (potentially, after you level it) a more superior version of your basic class.

Or again the level requirement is a simple lock out from them. The Requirement says nothing concrete.

This being your argument we will have have to wait and see.

[ScottyMango]

I have no problem calling it a subclass. You can call it whatever you want. Why are you focusing on what they are called when that's not the basis for which I was correct in my OT?

Dangit, I'm repeating myself like I said I wouldn't.

The point is that these new classes are (potentially, after you level it) a more superior version of your basic class.

I'm not focusing on what they're called, you are. I'm referring to the concept of a sub-class as it is most well known - a 'mini'-class in addition to your main class.

Have you really gotten so desperate that you're trying to turn twist titles around and say they don't mean what they actually do mean?

"I killed him" said the blood soaked man with the knife.

"Well, that doesn't necessarily mean to end someone's life! It could mean making them laugh really hard... or something!" said Zipzo.

It's almost like you're a really bad lawyer.

[RocSage]

I have no problem calling it a subclass. You can call it whatever you want. Why are you focusing on what they are called when that's not the basis for which I was correct in my OT?

Dangit, I'm repeating myself like I said I wouldn't.

The point is that these new classes are (potentially, after you level it) a more superior version of your basic class.

I would bet the new classes are more specialized.
Hunter -> Fighter
Forcer -> Tekker
Ranger -> I forget what it's called

Fighter implies an attacker
Tekker to some degree implies a black mage type
New Ranger Weapon looks to favor mobile fire power

If they take the common path then you can also predict a tanker, healer, less mobile ranger.

This gives a huge range of play.

[Zipzo]

Oh my god. Can somebody please assist me in explaining this for these people? I'd like to get around it without getting an infraction.

I don't care if they are called a sub-class or an advanced class, or a super-awesome-class.

Throw what you know of the definitions of those words out the window for just one second. Done it? Okay. Now...in the original thread, all I was implying was that whatever the new classes were (as in, it doesn't matter what you would define or label them as, because that's not even the argument), that they would be upgraded versions (don't extrapolate that term to mean advanced classes, because I'm only using it as a term to denote that they are superior forms of the basic classes we have available when leveled) of the 3 basic classes we have available today.

ScottyMango, you're incorrect. There is much information to be had in that small paragraph that we had yet to know until now, can't imagine why you're claiming we already knew that.

Again, this is about what the classes were going to be, IE a better hunter/ranger/force, not about what they are called.

Please...

[The Walrus]

We already figured the new classes were going to be similar to the old ones, just able to be used together with the old classes as a sub class to form a mixed class or a more specialized class.

[Zipzo]

I'm not focusing on what they're called, you are. I'm referring to the concept of a sub-class as it is most well known - a 'mini'-class in addition to your main class.

Have you really gotten so desperate that you're trying to turn twist titles around and say they don't mean what they actually do mean?

"I killed him" said the blood soaked man with the knife.

"Well, that doesn't necessarily mean to end someone's life! It could mean making them laugh really hard... or something!" said Zipzo.

It's almost like you're a really bad lawyer.No, I'm not focusing on what they're called. Whatsoever. I didn't in the original thread, and I didn't starting this one up either.

It is you and Vashyron who seem to think that the differentiation between the term "sub-class" and "advanced class" is a hitch for your argument in any way when it has absolutely nothing to do with how my original thread was on point as to what the new "classes" were.

[ScottyMango]

Throw what you know of the definitions of those words out the window for just one second.
Why should we throw out the currently accepted definition of "sub-class"? Because Sakai already got too close to confirming that, and you don't want to accept that much?

This is what you're doing

Sakai: It's subclasses!
You: THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S SUBCLASSES. It's just a name! Sometimes I call my freezer a microwave!

...Why? It makes no sense.

[Vashyron]

...Lol, ignoring all the schematic crap;

You say you believe the classes are "upgraded" versions in the end, give argument please?

[ScottyMango]

His argument is basically that they are classes that you unlock, and are similar to the other classes...

So I guess that confirms second tier classes then!

[Zipzo]

Why should we throw out the currently accepted definition of "sub-class"? Because Sakai already got too close to confirming that, and you don't want to accept that much?

This is what you're doing

Sakai: It's subclasses!
You: THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S SUBCLASSES. It's just a name! Sometimes I call my freezer a microwave!

...Why? It makes no sense.I honestly can't believe you typed this. All it does is facilitate my reasons to believe that you have absolutely no idea what is going on in this thread, nor can you bring yourself to comprehend the actual point.

The reason I asked you to throw out the definition is because it's irrelevant what they are. I never said they weren't sub classes, nor did I ever say they were advanced classes.

You're essentially running the most haphazard strawman argument I've ever seen thrown at me in a thread.

[RocSage]

Oh my god. Can somebody please assist me in explaining this for these people? I'd like to get around it without getting an infraction.

I don't care if they are called a sub-class or an advanced class, or a super-awesome-class.

Throw what you know of the definitions of those words out the window for just one second. Done it? Okay. Now...in the original thread, all I was implying was that whatever the new classes were (as in, it doesn't matter what you would define or label them as, because that's not even the argument), that they would be upgraded versions (don't extrapolate that term to mean advanced classes, because I'm only using it as a term to denote that they are superior forms of the basic classes we have available when leveled) of the 3 basic classes we have available today.

ScottyMango, you're incorrect. There is much information to be had in that small paragraph that we had yet to know until now, can't imagine why you're claiming we already knew that.

Again, this is about what the classes were going to be, IE a better hunter/ranger/force, not about what they are called.

Please...

Again. I think they are variation on the idea.
The starting classes, for example hunter, have a balance of attack/defense
Fighter might go full attack.
??? somewhere down the road might go full defense

This would then be able to later be used to do
Fighter + Tanker = Advanced Hunter
Fighter + Tekker = Dark Knight
Tanker + Healer = Paladin
Hunter + Fighter = balanced, but leans towards attacking
Fighter + Hunter = Attacker, but has emergency defense stuff
etc

The PSO classes are more akin these mixed classes than they are to the pure classes we have now.

[FenixStryk]

Before this thread hits 50 posts, I'll say this:
Don't get into a semantics argument with this guy. Even if you succeed, you will gain nothing through convincing him that his speculation is no better than anyone else's speculation. He'll deem every point you make as irrelevant, and then repeat himself until you leave.

Don't waste your time on something this trivial. Let it go, leave it be and let him eat an infraction for this waste of a thread.

[Zipzo]

Before this thread hits 50 posts, I'll say this:
Don't get into a semantics argument with this guy. Even if you succeed, you will gain nothing through convincing him that his speculation is no better than anyone else's speculation. He'll deem every point you make as irrelevant, and then repeat himself until you leave.

Don't waste your time on something this trivial. Let it go, leave it be and let him eat an infraction for this waste of a thread.Your post is really just an excuse to not have anything insightful to add.

It's not hard to go in to someones thread you don't like and regurgitate stuff like this post over and over so you can feel superior in some way.

The point of the thread is...I called it, and everyone whinged like there was no possible way, that the new classes would allow us 9 new combinations (or whatever), and other strange ideas. I was right...the new "classes" (<----ALERT) are simply and literally, a better hunter/ranger/force.

[Ana-Chan]

Well, I'm still thinking (hoping?) that we'll get both.

[ScottyMango]

I honestly can't believe you typed this. All it does is facilitate my reasons to believe that you have absolutely no idea what is going on in this thread, nor can you bring yourself to comprehend the actual point.

The reason I asked you to throw out the definition is because it's irrelevant what they are. I never said they weren't sub classes, nor did I ever say they were advanced classes.

You're essentially running the most haphazard strawman argument I've ever seen thrown at me in a thread.

> it's irrelevant what they are
> 50 topics about what they are and how everyone else is wrong.

wat.

Fenix is right, I donno why I bother with this one x:

Boredom, I guess.

[Slidikins]

Again, this is about what the classes were going to be, IE a better hunter/ranger/force, not about what they are called.

That's a much more boring discussion. Let's see... the simple ones...
Better Hunter (Fortefighter / HUcast)
Better Ranger (Forteranger)
Better Force (Fortecher / FOnewm)
Hunter/Ranger hybrid (Fighgunner / HUcaseal ish?)
Hunter/Force hybrid (Acrotecher or Wartecher / FOmar or HUnewearl, depending on balance)
Ranger/Force hybrid (Guntecher / RAmarl)
Support-based Force (FOmarl)

Missing a lot, but it's a quickly exhausted list of options...

[Kimil Adrayne]

Your post is really just an excuse to not have anything insightful to add.

It's not hard to go in to someones thread you don't like and regurgitate stuff like this post over and over so you can feel superior in some way.

The point of the thread is...I called it, and everyone whinged like there was no possible way, that the new classes would allow us 9 new combinations (or whatever), and other strange ideas. I was right...the new "classes" (<----ALERT) are simply and literally, a better hunter/ranger/force.

Your post is confirming everything he said.

I bit you adieu,

The summer is strong in this guy.

[FenixStryk]

Your post is really just an excuse to not have anything insightful to add.What insight is there to add? You provided nothing to discuss from the very first post. Do you want a pat on the back? Fine. Great. Congrats. Gold star.

We know what the first wave of sub-classes are. We didn't need a thread about it centered around you. This thread is troll-bait.

[gigawuts]

I'm going to watch as fighter is better offense with worse defense and zipzo says it's what he meant by upgrade

[Sp-24]

I'm not focusing on what they're called, you are. I'm referring to the concept of a sub-class as it is most well known - a 'mini'-class in addition to your main class.

Have you really gotten so desperate that you're trying to turn twist titles around and say they don't mean what they actually do mean?

"I killed him" said the blood soaked man with the knife.

"Well, that doesn't necessarily mean to end someone's life! It could mean making them laugh really hard... or something!" said Zipzo.

It's almost like you're a really bad lawyer.

That example is sort of incorrect. Only due to not enough context being given, though, the point is still there.

This is a typically observed behavior among male teenagers, as one of the attempts to establish themselves among peers. Not sure what to suggest here but, since this is a subfrum for discussion of PSO2, I'm not even going to.

[Zipzo]

> it's irrelevant what they are
> 50 topics about what they are and how everyone else is wrong.

wat.

Fenix is right, I donno why I bother with this one x:

Boredom, I guess.You mean 2. 1 only referring to the first in light of a recent announcement that confirms my educated guess.

I was right about what they were. Take your conversation about what they're called somewhere else, because I don't care for it, and it's not relevant. It's a name. A name. I'm talking about how the classes were going to work mechanically, as in what type of classes they would be.


That example is sort of incorrect. Only due to not enough context being given, though, the point is still there.

This is a typically observed behavior among male teenagers, as one of the attempts to establish themselves among peers. Not sure what to suggest here but, since this is a subfrum for discussion of PSO2, I'm not even going to.

Nice assumptions.

[Vashyron]

Still hasn't given an argument to why he believes they are upgraded versions, but rather argue schematics, lovely.

[RocSage]

"better" class doesn't mean advanced and advanced doesn't mean "better"
A better class would be a class that takes everything in the previous class and makes them better
An Advanced class is a class that may take one aspect of a class and makes it better while maybe making another aspect worst.

[ScottyMango]

that the new classes would allow us 9 new combinations (or whatever), and other strange ideas.


Wait... wait... before my brain melts out my ears... you are aware that this is what pretty much everybody has been arguing to you, right?

You just agreed with all the people you told were wrong countless times. I.. can't comprehend.. I don't even know.

I think you might be a bit of a loonie, chief.

All this obsession with how "right" you are is kinda bizarre. I mean, everyone wants to be right, but you've taken it to a whole new level of anal that I've never seen before.

[NoiseHERO]

Still hasn't given an argument to why he believes they are upgraded versions, but rather argue schematics, lovely.

But you're automatically wrong because don't know what's going in this thread!

[Kimil Adrayne]

You mean 2. 1 only referring to the first in light of a recent announcement that confirms my educated guess.

I was right about what they were. Take your conversation about what they're called somewhere else, because I don't care for it, and it's not relevant. It's a name. A name. I'm talking about how the classes were going to work mechanically, as in what type of classes they would be.



Nice assumptions.

Is this what is like to live in America? Dealing with guys like him regularly? I don't even mean in person, I mean the talking heads on the news channels and politicians too.

Just curious. I would go nuts.

Now, time for the great Canadian outdoors.

[NoiseHERO]

Is this what is like to live in America? Dealing with guys like him regularly? I don't even mean in person, I mean the talking heads on the news channels and politicians too.

Just curious. I would go nuts.

Now, time for the great Canadian outdoors.

I wanna move to Canada.

Need a room mate?

[Angelo]

Again. I think they are variation on the idea.
The starting classes, for example hunter, have a balance of attack/defense
Fighter might go full attack.
??? somewhere down the road might go full defense

This would then be able to later be used to do
Fighter + Tanker = Advanced Hunter
Fighter + Tekker = Dark Knight
Tanker + Healer = Paladin
Hunter + Fighter = balanced, but leans towards attacking
Fighter + Hunter = Attacker, but has emergency defense stuff
etc

The PSO classes are more akin these mixed classes than they are to the pure classes we have now.

That would be pretty amazing... but I wouldn't count on it.

[gigawuts]

Is this what is like to live in America? Dealing with guys like him regularly? I don't even mean in person, I mean the talking heads on the news channels and politicians too.

Just curious. I would go nuts.

Now, time for the great Canadian outdoors.

He's just a vocal minority. He's Fox News, or Limbaugh.

[Zipzo]

"better" class doesn't mean advanced and advanced doesn't mean "better"
A better class would be a class that takes everything in the previous class and makes them better
An Advanced class is a class that may take one aspect of a class and makes it better while maybe making another aspect worst.
Getting closer...I have faith in you RocSage. Yes! If the word "better" suits you, then go with that. Although I can't see why the word "upgraded" can't cover that without being extrapolated in to a thousand different meanings...if that works for you, use it.


Wait... wait... before my brain melts out my ears... you are aware that this is what pretty much everybody has been arguing to you, right?

You just agreed with all the people you told were wrong countless times. I.. can't comprehend.. I don't even know.

I think you might be a bit of a loonie, chief.

...how did I agree with it. I was refuting it. I was pretty strong in my thoughts that there would simply be 3 new classes. And that seems to be the case. Hence...me being on point with my prediction. I don't know why your brain is melting out of your ears, because I'm not understanding what you don't seem to be getting out of this, and frankly I'm getting tired of your derailing the point on to meaningless conjecture...


Is this what is like to live in America? Dealing with guys like him regularly? I don't even mean in person, I mean the talking heads on the news channels and politicians too.

Just curious. I would go nuts.

Now, time for the great Canadian outdoors.I don't live in America. Though I can't imagine how you feel so validated in separating yourself from them being in their hat.

[RocSage]

Is this what is like to live in America? Dealing with guys like him regularly? I don't even mean in person, I mean the talking heads on the news channels and politicians too.

Just curious. I would go nuts.

Now, time for the great Canadian outdoors.

The majority of Americans that I've met are fairly dumb.
I've had plenty of face palm moments with others nationalities too, though the majority of the people I communicate from other countries tend to be of the more informed variety.

[Halcyote]

even a broken clock is right twice a day

[RocSage]

Getting closer...I have faith in you RocSage. Yes! If the word "better" suits you, then go with that. Although I can't see why the word "upgraded" can't cover that without being extrapolated in to a thousand different meanings...if that works for you, use it.


Better is relative.
Upgraded is as well.

When you tell me something is better or upgraded then I have to ask, in what way?

[Vashyron]

Still hasn't given an argument to why he believes they are upgraded versions, but rather argue schematics, lovely.

:wacko:

[Zipzo]

Better is relative.
Upgraded is as well.

When you tell me something is better or upgraded then I have to ask, in what way?

and @Vash...


The new classes are in similar line with the 3 existing classes consisting of close range combat, long distance combat, and tech and you’ll be able to use the new weapon categories with these classes.

It's simple.

I don't know about you, but opening up the ability to use more weapons to me, is an improvement on the current status. This would mean that the new "classes"...are an improved version of the current ones...as they are given the opportunity to use a bigger variety of weapons.

I don't know, seems clear, cut and dry to me.

[ScottyMango]

...how did I agree with it. I was refuting it.

That one was actually my bad, I misread a few words in the sentence and suddenly thought you were going with the possibility of 'combinations'.

But you're not, okay, you're not insane, just wrong (well, as wrong as someone can be when something is only half-confirmed).

[redroses]

Zipzo, nowhere has it been confirmed that these are advanced classes.
Needing a level req to unlock these classes means nothing. Of course they would add some kind of req to unlock any kind of new classes, be it sub or advanced (I mean, they have req for everything in this game).
And the classes having to start from lv 1 is also no indication of them being advanced classes, or did you think sub classes would start at your current level cap?

It could very well be, that you have to level up one of these new classes, and after a certain level you can attach that class to your main class and get the bonuses from it (being able to use their weapons and skill tress etc.). So in a way, you could make an advanced fighter if you go hunter sub class fighter.

Also, it might say your are able to use the new weapons, but doesn't say, you are able to use the new weapons aswell as the old ones.

[Vashyron]

Vash. It's simple.

I don't know about you, but opening up the ability to use more weapons to me, is an improvement on the current status. This would mean that the new "classes"...are an improved version of the current ones...as they are given the opportunity to use a bigger variety of weapons.

I don't know, seems clear, cut and dry to me.

Except he doesn't say use more weapons, he says use the new weapons.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Vash. It's simple.

I don't know about you, but opening up the ability to use more weapons to me, is an improvement on the current status. This would mean that the new "classes"...are an improved version of the current ones...as they are given the opportunity to use a bigger variety of weapons.

I don't know, seems clear, cut and dry to me.

Alternatively, the new classes could also use only 3 or 4 weapons like the original classes. Maybe the Hunter clone class will use Daggers, Knuckles, Double Sabers, and Gunslashes.

[NoiseHERO]

Everyone's wrong: Zipzo is right and nobody cares.

They were right:"Zipzo is wrong and they rub it in his face a "lol" about it.

This is just bickering in the waiting room.

[Vashyron]

Or even all the classes can use all the weapon types their opposite can use, but only one side gets the skill tree specialisations.

(So like something like Fighter could still use Swords, but Sword gear would be unavailable to them.)

This is all speculation, there is no absolute answer at this point.

[Zipzo]

Alternatively, the new classes could also use only 3 or 4 weapons like the original classes. Maybe the Hunter clone class will use Daggers, Knuckles, Double Sabers, and Gunslashes.I believe the lvl30 requirement for switching to these new classes is a lead on them essentially just being ultimately superior. A lvl30 requirement suggests that they want you to experience 30 levels as a "basic" hunter before being a "better" hunter.


Zipzo, nowhere has it been confirmed that these are advanced classes.

Redroses, please don't derail the thread.

[ScottyMango]

Except he doesn't say use more weapons, he says use the new weapons.

That's exactly what I got from that too. The way it's been worded makes it seem like a 'fighter' grants you access to 'fighter' weapons, but not necessarily Hunter weapons.

[Gardios]

Is... is it so hard to just wait for the announcement of the update? The whole "told you so!" attitude is just silly.

[ScottyMango]

It is. Frankly, if he was sitting here speculating what he thinks it is without all the "HAHA I'M RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT" bs, then this would be a pretty decent topic.

[Vashyron]

I believe the lvl30 requirement for switching to these new classes is a lead on them essentially just being ultimately superior. A lvl30 requirement suggests that they want you to experience 30 levels as a "basic" hunter before being a "better" hunter.

Or they simply want to shoehorn you trough content like usual.

[Zipzo]

That's exactly what I got from that too. The way it's been worded makes it seem like a 'fighter' grants you access to 'fighter' weapons, but not necessarily Hunter weapons.

I interpret it as such...

Ranger (basic weapons) > lvl 30 > Switch to Burning Ranger lvl 1 (access to basic + new weapons)


Or they simply want to shoehorn you trough content like usual.I think it's ultimately more likely that there is a purpose to why they do things, than just because they are randomly making up stuff. This is 2012 online gaming.

[Polly]

Is... is it so hard to just wait for the announcement of the update? The whole "told you so!" attitude is just silly.

People need something in their lives, I guess?

[redroses]

I believe the lvl30 requirement for switching to these new classes is a lead on them essentially just being ultimately superior. A lvl30 requirement suggests that they want you to experience 30 levels as a "basic" hunter before being a "better" hunter.



Redroses, please don't derail the thread.

Excuse, I do not understand how I am derailing the thread with my comment?
If you want, then I'll just rephrase: Nowhere has it been confirmed that these are upgraded versions of our current classes.

[DoubleCannon]

How has this thread not been locked yet lol, this thread is a battle of I am right your wrong. Seesh lets just wait for more concrete information.

INB4LOCK

[Zipzo]

Excuse, I do not understand how I am derailing the thread with my comment?
If you want, then I'll just rephrase: Nowhere has it been confirmed that these are upgraded versions of our current classes.I disagreed that the subclass system Sakai hinted at would mean a superlative number of new classes, such as Wartecher/Guntecher/Fighgunner/Fortetecher/Fortefighter etc etc... I was correct.

I see the argument though, you all think that these new classes won't be an "upgraded" version of the class, but an "alternative" version...which is a fair argument as I guess distinctly based on wording, he doesn't clarify.

I think the chances of that are absolutely slim, I am not over analyzing the lack of clarification, but I'll refer back to this thread inevitably when that announcement goes by and it confirms my guesses as well.

[Vashyron]

I interpret it as such...

Ranger (basic weapons) > lvl 30 > Switch to Burning Ranger lvl 1 (access to basic + new weapons)

I think it's ultimately more likely that there is a purpose to why they do things, than just because they are randomly making up stuff. This is 2012 online gaming.

You interpet as such? Nice, now how about we wait until it happens or will this thread still escalate into over 50 pages with the same speculations?

They also do want to shoe you trough content, look at the new maps not having normal difficulties.

There is no absolute answer at this point.


I think the chances of that are slim, but I'll refer back to this thread inevitably when that announcement goes by and it confirms my guesses as well.

Make sure to also remember this thread if you are wrong.

[ScottyMango]

I interpret it as such...

Ranger (basic weapons) > lvl 30
> Burning Ranger (newer weapons + basic weapons)

That also makes a lot of sense, but the way I speculate it is a combination of what we both believe.

Ranger may very well carry on to "burning ranger", which grants access to the next tier, or different set of abilities, with their combination being the 'higher tier' ranger.

However I also believe it's possible that you may be able to keep your Ranger as it is, and branch into Fighter or Techer, granting you their respective powers.

It was done in other phantasy star games, so it's not utterly insane to assume.

However this has already been discussed... and the bumped post doesn't confirm or deny either way, it only adds more fuel to the speculation fire. So, I don't see how you are so sure that you are correct. It isn't confirmed. The bumped post may have led you to believe a certain way, but it certainly isn't confirmed, and I certainly don't see the same smoking-gun evidence in it that you do.

[Zipzo]

That also makes a lot of sense, but the way I speculate it is a combination of what we both believe.

Ranger may very well carry on to "burning ranger", which grants access to the next tier, or different set of abilities, with their combination being the 'higher tier' ranger.

However I also believe it's possible that you may be able to keep your Ranger as it is, and branch into Fighter or Techer, granting you their respective powers.

It was done in other phantasy star games, so it's not utterly insane to assume.

However this has already been discussed... and the bumped post doesn't confirm or deny either way, it only adds more fuel to the speculation fire. So, I don't see how you are so sure that you are correct. It isn't confirmed. The bumped post may have led you to believe a certain way, but it certainly isn't confirmed, and I certainly don't see the same smoking-gun evidence in it that you do.

Okay...if the new classes turn out to simply be alternative versions of the current classes...I will submit. I highly doubt it though.

What they confirmed is that we are getting distinct classes, not some jumbled up sub class system where you can pick any option you like and create a handful of different combinations, which is where I was right.


When you change to the new classes you’ll start at level 1.This is a very clear (in my opinion quite distinguishable from the opposite concept) implication here that he is referring to your main level. Not a sub-class level that levels concurrently with your main level.

[Laxedrane]

He's just a vocal minority. He's Fox News, or Limbaugh.

If he was fox news, he try to scare us shitless with something completely irrelevant to the point. Then say he was right and blur the lines between those two points.

Foxified Zipzo post:

Ip bans are going to happen becuase hackers won't knock it off. It's like they are attacking us. They hate us! They want to ruin our jp/en cohesiveness. They are attacking our community! Our uncreated future characters are at risk becuase of these hackers! Our 40/40/40 characters aren't even safe after weeks of contribution to the game! The hackers obviously don't want us to enjoy our upcoming advance classes with their continuation of our current tree goodness.

That is why the "new" Classes are simply upgraded versions.

This is Zipzo reporting. Fox news.

[ScottyMango]

Okay...if the new classes turn out to simply be alternative versions of the current classes...I will submit. I highly doubt it though.

What they confirmed is that we are getting distinct classes, not some jumbled up sub class system where you can pick any option you like and create a handful of different combinations, which is where I was right.

This is a very clear (in my opinion quite distinguishable from the opposite concept) implication here that he is referring to your main level. Not a sub-class level that levels concurrently with your main level.

It's not clear at all. It's a single sentence that says the new class, however it works, will start at level 1, which makes perfect sense from any view.

I never expected a subclass or combination class to start at your first class's level... I don't see why it would.

And they didn't confirm anything, really. All they did was describe the new classes, regardless of how they work. They never said they were stronger, they never said they were able to be combined with others, they never said anything about any of that. Just "there are new classes, and they are similar."

Basically, what we already knew.

[Zipzo]

It's not clear at all. It's a single sentence that says the new class, however it works, will start at level 1, which makes perfect sense from any view.

I never expected a subclass or combination class to start at your first classes level... I don't see why it would.

And they didn't confirm anything, really. All they did was describe the new classes, regardless of how they work. They never said they were stronger, they never said they were able to be combined with others, they never said anything about any of that. Just "there are new classes, and they are similar."

Basically, what we already knew.
If you'll peruse the original thread which I linked in the OP...you will find that the whole basis for which I got slammed was for not believing it to be what you just said you don't believe it will be. That's what this thread is about. I will admit there is a single, undetermined factor and that's whether these classes will be "upgraded" versions or "alternative" versions, but...I think that's a pretty stretchy straw to wiff at.

Read this carefully...and as someone who has studied the english language for years...


When you change to the new classes you’ll start at level 1.

Notice how the word "change" is used. If you're picking up a sub class...why would you "change" to it? A sub-class as you define it would simply mean tacking on the abilities of a second class, correct?

Also notice the phrase "you'll start at level 1". This to me, speaks pretty clearly that once you change to the new classes (one of three), you will be level 1.

[The Walrus]

Give it a rest Zipzo. We're not gonna know anything for sure till around the 3rd.

[NoiseHERO]

Your first mistake was thinking anyone actually cared about the pointless speculation battle in the original thread anymore than this current one.

[Zipzo]

Your first mistake was thinking anyone actually cared about the pointless speculation battle in the original thread anymore than this current one.
17 Pages in the first thread and breaching 10 in this one lead me to think otherwise, Mr. Eastwood. It's not like I had to triple post consistently to keep either thread going. They both have moved incredibly fast.

My opinion is that people have very passionate ideas on the matter because they have certain things they want that are clouding their vision from seeing what it most likely will be based on both logical interpretation of game mechanics and history as we know it. It's foolish to deny that this is a hot topic, either way.

[ScottyMango]

If you'll peruse the original thread which I linked in the OP...you will find that the whole basis for which I got slammed was for not believing it to be what you just said you don't believe it will be. That's what this thread is about. I will admit there is a single, undetermined factor and that's whether these classes will be "upgraded" versions or "alternative" versions, but...I think that's a pretty stretchy straw to wiff at.

Read this carefully...and as someone who has studied the english language for years...



Notice how the word "change" is used. If you're picking up a sub class...why would you "change" to it? A sub-class as you define it would simply mean tacking on the abilities of a second class, correct?

Also notice the phrase "you'll start at level 1". This to me, speaks pretty clearly that once you change to the new classes (one of three), you will be level 1.

I can see how that sentence might lead you to think what you do, but that is not a confirmation of any kind. It's just a single sentence that doesn't go into any detail, and could easily be interpreted multiple ways.

But let me have you consider this: There was a separate skill tree menu for "sub-class" in the alpha, and while this was just an alpha, it certainly can lead you to believe that it will be something implemented in the future. It being separate makes me think that they will be used in conjunction with eachother, rather than switched off from.

On top of that, Sakai specifically hinted at "sub-classes" with his ridiculously obvious word game.

Now combine that with the fact that we're getting 3 new classes that are very similar to the 3 we already have. To me, all of that together screams out classic sub-classing, with the ability to stack the similar classes to create a second-tier, or advanced class.

Sure, you could argue that what Sakai means by sub-classes is actually just how Fighter branches from Hunter, but I think it's a bit of a stretch going with what sub-class means 90% of the time, especially as it is already a mechanic used in previous Phantasy Stars.

Regardless, nobody is right or wrong until the update comes out and we see for ourselves. That's my biggest peeve here. You can speculate what you want, and I will debate it with you, but when it turns into "NO, I'M RIGHT." then it's just dumb.

[Polly]

Your first mistake was thinking anyone actually cared about the pointless speculation battle in the original thread anymore than this current one.

He just wants his gold star/cookie/pony for spinning in circles and saying...a great big bunch of nothing. IS THAT SO HARD TO ASK FROM YOU PEOPLE?

[Kimil Adrayne]

I wanna move to Canada.

Need a room mate?

Sorry mang, done with roommates. Last place I live in saw 17 roommates come and go in 2 years.

Over my time there, that house housed me, 5 guys from high school, two girls from my hometown (one got pregnant in the house), an awesome polish immigrant, three friends from university, a muffin baker chick who brought home a dozen muffins a day, a deadbeat pothead delivery guy who stole my broken Nintendo wii, a cowboy horse doctor, a drunk Irish immigrant, a 40 year old guy from Columbia, and a 5' Asian body builder. Oh, and 4 girlfriends who basically lived with us but didn't pay rent. About 10 friends knew our lock combo and would pop by to crash all the time.


... Fuck I miss that place in retrospect.

[Arika]

There is going to be sub-class and there are going to be new class too.
new class is probably advance version of the current class, and the sub-class is probably just HU RA FO but set as sub instead.

That is what I think. basically you choose 2 classes.

[Zipzo]

I can see how that sentence might lead you to think what you do, but that is not a confirmation of any kind. It's just a single sentence that doesn't go into any detail, and could easily be interpreted multiple ways.

But let me have you consider this: There was a separate skill tree menu for "sub-class" in the alpha, and while this was just an alpha, it certainly can lead you to believe that it will be something implemented in the future. It being separate makes me think that they will be used in conjunction with eachother, rather than switched off from.

On top of that, Sakai specifically hinted at "sub-classes" with his ridiculously obvious word game.

Now combine that with the fact that we're getting 3 new classes that are very similar to the 3 we already have. To me, all of that together screams out classic sub-classing, with the ability to stack the similar classes to create a second-tier, or advanced class.

Sure, you could argue that what Sakai means by sub-classes is actually just how Fighter branches from Hunter, but I think it's a bit of a stretch going with what sub-class means 90% of the time, especially as it is already a mechanic used in previous Phantasy Stars.

Regardless, nobody is right or wrong until the update comes out and we see for ourselves. That's my biggest peeve here. You can speculate what you want, and I will debate it with you, but when it turns into "NO, I'M RIGHT." then it's just dumb.

If there's something I can say to the whole thing, it's that your typical definition of "sub-class" could likely be getting stretched or bent. I wouldn't approach the word in such a narrow-minded fashion at this point.

Going off of historical proceedings, I think it's actually more likely they would keep the class system more "simple", than to have a huge breadth of combinations available. I think the ultimate smorgasbord of options in PSU was something that didn't click with the majority of the "PSO > PSU" crowd, and given that this is PSO2, it's likely that crowd is the demographic for which they are aiming to please in this regard.

Yes, you could say some of the original PSO classes were considered hybrid (HUnewearls, RAmarls), but those were preset differences based on chosen race of the 3 options you had for each of the three classes. Balance and "fairness" is a big issue this day and age, and people don't settle for imbalances based on things like chosen race. Where as in PSO, you were forced to be a female newman if you wanted to be a hunter with decent TECH skills. Not everybody wanted that, and to me, PSO2 is just simply running an evolved concept that allows for more freedom in your character customization, where class is really only the majorly defining aspect of your game play (hence the allowance of switching whenever you want).

[Kimil Adrayne]

I can't believe people are reading his walls of gets and actually replying at this point. Let this thread die.

[Zipzo]

I can't believe people are reading his walls of gets and actually replying at this point. Let this thread die.Implying and demonstrating that you are...?

[Zyrusticae]

This... really isn't worth arguing about.

Really.

Of all the trivial shit...
Quoting myself because this entire thread confirmed my first impression to be absolutely true.

Seriously, what the hell? What a waste of time, man. :-?

[Jonth]

I read through this entire ordeal... It is so very sad that it didn't turn into a legitimate conversation until page 9. Anyway, to throw my opinion in, I believe closer to the lines of, "alternative classes". However, at this point, I could possibly see "upgraded classes", I'll give you that potentiality.

Also, maybe sub-classes (the definition of which where you have two classes simultaneously) won't be implemented until later, but I do believe Sakai meant the "narrowly defined" version of the term with his word game. I mean, he didn't really say when he was going to implement sub-classes.

Not trying to derail this thread or anything, but on a side note, how about those team rooms? Sounds ridiculously awesome.

[Dinosaur]

Notice how the word "change" is used. If you're picking up a sub class...why would you "change" to it? A sub-class as you define it would simply mean tacking on the abilities of a second class, correct?

That's true but I couldn't imagine Hunter being without Step Attack and Just Guard(or RA without Weak Bullet, FO without Charge PP Revival).

Perhaps stronger alternatives are provided in the new trees? Or your advance class retains a skill tree from your base class? The former is still hard to imagine. The latter seems more likely, but at this rate, who knows...

[Renzer]

I think they are just advance classes too, and even though starting at level 1 is going to be a drag, I'll probably end up switching to the advance ranger class anyway. I just hope SEGA adds low level versions of their new weapons they are implementing to make the new class change worth while.

[TheAstarion]

It's likely that both subclass and flavoured classes will be available concurrently. Someone would be able to make their own pure advanced class by mixing the two with the same root, or futz around creating hybrids.

A Wartecher in PSU could be emulated with any combination of Fighter or Hunter, and Force or Techer. So, Huntecher, Hunterforce, Fightecher, Fighterforce, Forcefighter, Forcehunter, Techfighter and Techunter are all combos that hit the prerequisites... but will all play differently.

For pures you just have Rangegunner and Gunranger, for instance. That's more clear-cut, do you want to stick with your weak bullet specialisation and have gunner weapons merely available, or do you want to specialise in your new gunner weapons and keep the ranger weapons as backup?

I can see hybrids using the unlockable classes as being slightly more powerful in the long run. And there's room in the data for even more classes; specialists for speedy attacks, item usage, or status effect abuse would be great subs, even if they were strictly sub-only. The system is already an interesting framework, I'm excited to see what they can do with it.

[Enforcer MKV]

I really have no idea at this point. Between having the fill in the blank, and the wording of Sakai's blog post (assuming that was translated correctly), it could go either way. :/

Still: better to sit back and wait it out.

[Xaton]

hmms how about this prestige class just like dnd. yeesh or freaking multi class sounds more liek the dnd style you level up base class fighter then prestige into weaponmaster or what ever.

[Angelo]

To be honest, from his description it doesn't sound like sub classes.

The fact the he cock-teased us with "_ブ_ラス" is kind of a dick move on his part.

The be more specific the hint is closer to being _ _ B _ _ R/L A S S

'the fuck else could it mean? Tube Grass? Noob Harass? Boob Glass? Love Plus?

[Kondibon]

I still believe there's going to be a subclass system at some point. But as I've said before, these don't have to be them.

[Kylie]

Well-played.

I feel like shit for planning my Mag to be a hybrid. :(

Oh no, Kylie, keep on keeping on because, chile, sub-classes are coming!

Yeah, no. :disapprove:

I think they *might* come anyway, but I don't care at this point.

[Vashyron]

....

:wacko:

It seems like people are too tangled up in thinking Subclasses will be specificity subclasses, not that a subclass is a "normal" class you sub with.

[Jonth]

....

:wacko:

It seems like people are too tangled up in thinking Subclasses will be specificity subclasses, not that a subclass is a "normal" class you sub with.

Yeah, at this point I am hoping this. Would add so many more options than just allowing Fighter, Techer, and Gunner as Subclasses. Personally, I'd prefer to Main Techer and sub Hunter, that is, if Techer turns out to be what I think it might.

[Kondibon]

....

:wacko:

It seems like people are too tangled up in thinking Subclasses will be specificity subclasses, not that a subclass is a "normal" class you sub with.I'm not against this. I was just pointing out that whether or not they're subclasses, there's a lot of info pointing to it, so even if zipzo is right and these aren't and never will be "subclasses" there's still too much info pointing in that direction.

[Lostbob117]

Or you know when you get two class such as if you get a hunter and a fighter or a hunter and a techer to Lv you might be able to connect the two.

[Asdfv]

Here is a more direct translation of the blog post segment that might be clearer:
In the Large-Scale Update of September, 3 new classes and 5 new weapon categories will be implemented. These classes are new classes that can be said to be on the same level as the current classes and the new weapon categories will only be usable by the new classes.

The new classes will be a close-ranged class, a long-ranged class, and a tech class and changing into the new classes becomes possible by clearing particular client orders that are received by respectively reaching hunter, ranger, and force class levels of 30 or higher.

As it becomes a play from level 1 by changing class, it'll be possible to play together with all the hunters, rangers, and forces who will freshly begin play.

[Zipzo]

....

:wacko:

It seems like people are too tangled up in thinking Subclasses will be specificity subclasses, not that a subclass is a "normal" class you sub with.

You're one to talk. Battering me around with pointless banter on what names you would classify the new classes (it's sub class, not advanced class! Blah blah) for a good 50% of the thread so far when it was absolutely a meaningless point differentiation to make.

Also the translated post above is pretty cut and dry, again. Not seeing any form of "class that runs concurrent with your own". I didn't use the word "sub-class" this time so that way you couldnt find a way to twist my words again.

[Vashyron]

You're one to talk. Battering me around with pointless banter on what names you would classify the new classes (it's sub class, not advanced class! Blah blah) for a good 50% of the thread so far when it was absolutely a meaningless point differentiation to make.

Also the translated post above is pretty cut and dry, again. Not seeing any form of "class that runs concurrent with your own". I didn't use the word "sub-class" this time so that way you couldnt find a way to twist my words again.

And here comes the funny stuff again, who was arguing schematics of the naming of sub/advanced/whatever with me and everyone other poster who mentioned them when I was trying to argue the point that they aren't upgraded classes?

The post above does not mention "class that runs concurrent with your own" yes, but then if you would refer to my point you just quoted.

[Zipzo]

And here comes the funny stuff again, who was arguing schematics of the naming of sub/advanced/whatever with me and everyone other poster who mentioned them when I was trying to argue the point that they aren't upgraded classes?

The post above does not mention "class that runs concurrent with your own" yes, but then if you would refer to my point you just quoted.
They are upgraded classes. They can use more weapons, and it requires effort as the according base class to unlock them.

[Vashyron]

They are upgraded classes. They can use more weapons, and it requires effort as the according base class to unlock them.

All we know is they can use the new weapons, not more weapons.

If you want to call them upgraded classes on the sole reason that they have a level requirement, but may in fact not be able to to equip the old weapon types or have their skills, go ahead.

[GoldenFalcon]

Well, if only the 3 new classes can use the 5 new weapons, and he wants each weapon type to be used by 2 classes, sounds like we basically have hybrids anyway. Except, if Fighter gets mechguns, and Techer gets doublesaber (for example) they won't find much use since Fighters will use melee weapons and Techer will use powerful spells instead, due to no real reason to use weapons from other classes

[Valkyrie Lovrina]

Bah, the very thought of Sub Class's not being released in the next update after getting my hopes up with the _UB_Lass makes me a sad Sky Bison. :disapprove:

guess I'll raise Ranger and Force to lv30 to prepare for the new class's. *crosses arms* hmph

[Takatsuki]

Personally, I REALLY hope that it ends up being Subclasses.
I have a Duel Gaze Talis, which is equippable through ABL/DEX instead of TATK, so if I could get my Hunter to be able to subclass in Force, I could use that to heal and buff myself since I can already equip it.

[Sideswipe]

It seems incredible to me that there's such a big argument about this, with NO DEFINITIVE INFORMATION regarding what type of class they are going to be.

These kind of ego-boosting topics are exactly why i almost never post here. Wait for the damned update to come out, see what they are, THEN talk about being right or wrong, if you really have that much need for attention.

[Enforcer MKV]

Bah, the very thought of Sub Class's not being released in the next update after getting my hopes up with the _UB_Lass makes me a sad Sky Bison. :disapprove:

guess I'll raise Ranger and Force to lv30 to prepare for the new class's. *crosses arms* hmph

I'm still suspicious of this whole thing after the _ub _lass hint. That's just....too much of a tell in my mind. I wouldn't lose heart until we have a full description of what these classes are, or until they release and we see for ourselves. Either way, we're getting 5 new weapon types! There's still plenty to be happy about. :D

[GoldenFalcon]

It seems incredible to me that there's such a big argument about this, with NO DEFINITIVE INFORMATION regarding what type of class they are going to be.

These kind of ego-boosting topics are exactly why i almost never post here. Wait for the damned update to come out, see what they are, THEN talk about being right or wrong, if you really have that much need for attention.

Yes, there are plenty of ways that it could be subclasses or not
Arguing over who is correct is just absurd, since opinions cannot be correct

[Valymer]

To me, none of this really makes any sense. I mean, they want us to level another class starting from the beginning...for what? Just to use these new weapons? There better be a lot more to it than that, I mean this "new" class had better be significantly stronger than the existing classes for it to even be worth it. Still a lot of speculation but it really feels like, as someone else mentioned, that they are just trying to drag out the existing content as much as possible, forcing us to re-grind all those beginning stages which honestly are getting pretty boring to me at this point.

I wonder if the release of these new classes will coincide with the level cap/difficulty increase, or if it will precede them.

[Vashyron]

I wouldn't be surprised if it would come with Normal difficulties of Tundra / Mines / Floating continent.

[Mikura]

In the Large-Scale Update of September, 3 new classes and 5 new weapon categories will be implemented. These classes are new classes that can be said to be on the same level as the current classes and the new weapon categories will only be usable by the new classes.

The new classes will be a close-ranged class, a long-ranged class, and a tech class and changing into the new classes becomes possible by clearing particular client orders that are received by respectively reaching hunter, ranger, and force class levels of 30 or higher.

As it becomes a play from level 1 by changing class, it'll be possible to play together with all the hunters, rangers, and forces who will freshly begin play. Seems clear to me by that wording that they're just alternatives to what we already have, not advanced or superior in any way.

My guess is what we're getting now is new classes. Then in the future, they'll implement a feature where you can sub the old classes with the new ones. Or vice-versa perhaps. Who knows.

Lastly, I want to go on record to say that regardless of what the final outcome is once we get absolute proof when they're released, I quite honestly don't care who the hell turns out to be right or wrong with their "predictions."

I understand forums exist so people can debate and speculate. Which is fine. But I absolutely hate it when threads dissolve into a pissing contest over who's right and who's wrong.

[Valymer]

Seems clear to me by that wording that they're just alternatives to what we already have, not advanced or superior in any way.

My guess is what we're getting now is new classes. Then in the future, they'll implement a feature where you can sub the old classes with the new ones. Or vice-versa perhaps. Who knows.

Lastly, I want to go on record to say that regardless of what the final outcome is once we get absolute proof when they're released, I quite honestly don't care who the hell turns out to be right or wrong with their "predictions."

I understand forums exist so people can debate and speculate. Which is fine. But I absolutely hate it when threads dissolve into a pissing contest over who's right and who's wrong.

Well if that's the case then I don't know if I'll even bother with them. Although, it's not like there is anything else to do other than feed my mags and endlessly farm maps in zombie mode. As much as I never thought I'd say it, this game could use tradeskills or something just to give us something else to do.

[GoldenFalcon]

May I speculate on subclasses more?

From what I noticed, subclasses would simply be in a subheader in the class change menu. Which is fine and dandy
But, in the skill tree menu, there is no distinction of subheaders to differentiate between subclass and main class. This points to 2 possibilities:

1) Each class would need to be unlocked for subclass use, via a client order at level 40 or something, and added to the subclass subheader in the class change menu, and it would simply add the maxed skill tree etc. to your main class's benefits

2) Subclasses won't have skill trees, and purely offer tiny statistical gains and weapon variety to the main class, and set archetype-related benefits at set levels. Meaning subclasses won't actually be Hunter, or Fighter. In this way, I would also hope that they do something like a Cast "subclass", which offers Cast-like benefits while leveling up (like trap vision at Cast level 10, regenerating HP at level 15, etc.) but would not let you be as hybrid (such as "Hunter" subclass on a Ranger/Gunner). Goes without saying that this would use the "0 EXP" at the end of every mission to level up, since it isn't able to be a main class.

And.. that's that. I'm just really anxious to see what they'll do.

[Takatsuki]

To me, none of this really makes any sense. I mean, they want us to level another class starting from the beginning...for what? Just to use these new weapons? There better be a lot more to it than that, I mean this "new" class had better be significantly stronger than the existing classes for it to even be worth it. Still a lot of speculation but it really feels like, as someone else mentioned, that they are just trying to drag out the existing content as much as possible, forcing us to re-grind all those beginning stages which honestly are getting pretty boring to me at this point.

I wonder if the release of these new classes will coincide with the level cap/difficulty increase, or if it will precede them.

IF it is Subclasses, I think they will probably level up side by side with your existing class. Like, if I have a Level 40 Hunter main class and a Level 1 Force subclass, I will be at Level 40 Hunter strength but I will get bonus stats and abilities from the Force skill tree as I fight with Force as my subclass.

[Mikura]

Well if that's the case then I don't know if I'll even bother with them. Although, it's not like there is anything else to do other than feed my mags and endlessly farm maps in zombie mode. As much as I never thought I'd say it, this game could use tradeskills or something just to give us something else to do.


It is a bit lacking in other areas. Even the older PSO games had Challenge and Battle Mode to mix things up a bit. Not to mention Towards the Future and other missions. I'm still expecting them to add features like that in the future though to be honest.

Also, the only reason I'm leaning towards the classes as simply being alternatives is because it'd be kinda crappy to say "Hey, you guys spent all those hours lvling these classes and now they're absolutely worthless and on top of that, you get to start all over from level-fucking-one! Enjoy yourselves!" I just don't see them doing that.

Either as being alternatives or as a sub for the new classes, I would think they would serve a purpose other than a simple prerequisite to unlocking the new classes.

[Valymer]

Also, the only reason I'm leaning towards the classes as simply being alternatives is because it'd be kinda crappy to say "Hey, you guys spent all those hours lvling these classes and now they're absolutely worthless and on top of that, you get to start all over from level-fucking-one! Enjoy yourselves!" I just don't see them doing that.

Lol that's exactly what it felt like to me, haha, you put it perfectly. But really I'm just speculating and wondering like everyone else (just really curious). I will definitely give them the benefit of the doubt, and wait until they are released to judge them...since we still really don't know how they will be implemented.

And yeah, I'm really hoping they add some other stuff for us to do. The only thing I haven't messed around with is Time Attack or whatever, but we could really use some other progression paths anyway (or even just other fun stuff to do).

[Mikura]

Lol that's exactly what it felt like to me, haha, you put it perfectly. But really I'm just speculating and wondering like everyone else (just really curious). I will definitely give them the benefit of the doubt, and wait until they are released to judge them...since we still really don't know how they will be implemented.

And yeah, I'm really hoping they add some other stuff for us to do. The only thing I haven't messed around with is Time Attack or whatever, but we could really use some other progression paths anyway (or even just other fun stuff to do).

The game's still relatively young with plenty of room to grow, so I'm sure we'll see some more diversions in the future. It's not like PSU where they were bound to the disc and couldn't really add anything that wasn't already on the game to start with. Then again, that could be blind optimism talking too. We'll see. ^^

As for the new classes, I agree. I can only speculate and assume like everyone else, but I'm not going to curse or bless them until they're actually released and playable.

[Valymer]

I was looking around Bumped just now and Ricardo had made this comment recently:


The new classes are like alternative classes from the original 3. They get access to the new weapon categories and you’ll have to start at level 1.

As for subclasses in a future update. The hint was dropped around the month of October. That just leaves us to speculate that you level up these new classes and eventually you can append them as a subclass. He wants us to level multiple classes in time for the October update.


Food for thought anyway, I know others in this thread and elsewhere have basically said this same thing. Ahhhhh I'm so curious :-x

[Omega-z]

^ This. I was thinking the same thing the new 3 alternative classes that are just added in to the Class List ( After unlocking them ) as new build's to grind to 30+. with there own Skill Tree's and to try out the new weapon's in those classes, Separate from the other classes ( like using old weapon's/skill's ). Then later on There might be the opportunity of Mixing said classes, Which could have there own Tree's and weapon's.

Something like this:

Hunter: Sword, Patizen, Wirelance, Gunslash - Hunter SkTr / 45 SP
Fighter: Knuckles, Twin Dagger, Double Saber, Gunslash? - Fighter SkTr / 40-45? SP - Unlock-able
Ranger: Rifle, Launcher, Gunslash - Ranger SkTr / 45 SP
Gunner: Twin Mechguns, Double Saber, Gunslash? - Gunner SkTr / 40-45? SP - Unlock-able
Force: Rod, Talis, Gunslash - Force SkTr / 45 SP
Techer: Wands, Twin Dagger, Gunslash? - Techer SkTr / 40-45? SP - Unlock-able

Any other classes will be the same unlocking at 30+ Lv to obtain or a mixture of one or more classes to gain another alternative class to do more Grinding......I hope you like forest.:):rappy:

[MailboxJunkie]

So basically what I'm getting from this is it's just like the FFXI system where you level to 30, unlock Dark Knight or whatever new class you have access to, then switch to that to be able to use new weapons and skills, and when subclasses are released, I'm guessing it'll be semi-similar to the subclass in XI as well.
And to be honest, it really would be ridiculous to have them be advanced classes instead of alternate, I doubt we'll be able to use the original hunter weapons on the new melee class, it's just a slap in the face, not to mention it doesn't make sense business-wise.
I mean c'mon, why would they make the original classes obsolete, with the level cap being raised and all that, skill tree resets and additional skill trees wouldn't sell as well as they would if all 6 classes had their own independent trees.
Idk, I guess I just don't see a point in making advanced classes when they could just add the new weapons to the original classes, and throw in a few new skill trees.
It just makes more sense that these will be alternatives that we get different choices with, and eventually will be able to sub any combination, to me at least.