FOcast and FOcaseals

[Kimil Adrayne]

So how are you misfits doing? I'm singling these class combos out because:

1) They never existed in PSO or PS0
2) They are arguably the worst stat/class combos ingame.

Now, I'm not trying to start a war here, I play a FOcaseal, but I haven't got to level 40 with her yet. I'm curious how these combos panned out for people in terms of output and equipment access. While the important stats (atk and def, for equiping weaps and armour) are fairly balanced between all three races for Rangers and Hunters, the discrepancy is a bit wider in for Forces.

Newms have 12.5% higher M-Atk and 5.3% M-def then Casts. Newearls have 14.8% higher M-Atk and 10.5% M-def then Caseals. For an example, a level 40 FOcast has the same M-Atk as a level 30 FOnewm. That's quite the gap. These gaps should continue into the higher levels.

Now, at level 40, are people playing FOcast/FOcaseal having a hard time keeping up with rod stat equip requirements? Is it hard to keep up the damage output? Discuss!

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

FOcast player reporting in. BROcast uses Rods/Gunslashes almost exclusively, seeing how Cast Forces are stronger with those weapons (well, stronger when it comes to smacking enemies with a Rod. The brief stun from Rod swings is a nice touch.)

When it comes to Rod equips, BROcast can equip standard issue 3* Rods just fine (although it takes him longer than other Forces to reach that point.) I dunno about rares, though.

I'm still waiting for minmaxers to kick me, but it seems BROcast has too high of a Swagger Index (I know, just go with it) to be kicked.

[Magus_84]

So how are you misfits doing? I'm singling these class combos out because:

1) They never existed in PSO or PS0
2) They are arguably the worst stat/class combos ingame.


They did exist in PSU, though. And a lot of the more attack-focused ATs were Casts, since buffs didn't scale off TP (PSU's equivalent to PSO's MST or PSO 2's T-Atk).

I imagine if we get hybrids and get some better buffs, Cast Forces/Force-hybrids will be a lot more popular than they are now, with a lot more viable choices in build beyond just "chase-the-newearl in tech damage".

[Enforcer MKV]

They did exist in PSU, though. And a lot of the more attack-focused ATs were Casts, since buffs didn't scale off TP (PSU's equivalent to PSO's MST or PSO 2's T-Atk).

I imagine if we get hybrids and get some better buffs, Cast Forces/Force-hybrids will be a lot more popular than they are now, with a lot more viable choices in build beyond just "chase-the-newearl in tech damage".

One word: Guntecher.

[Garnet_Moon]

Must... resist urge... to make... a... Whats the FOcast joke... must... show.... restraint... must... be strong...

I've seen alot of CASTs with those ugly heads that are like twice the size of their body... and they were forces. They need THAT much more circuitry to use magic? lolcastsupremacy

[gigawuts]

Must... resist urge... to make... a... Whats the FOcast joke... must... show.... restraint... must... be strong...

I've seen alot of CASTs with those ugly heads that are like twice the size of their body... and they were forces. They need THAT much more circuitry to use magic? lolcastsupremacy

No, we just keep an actual loli in there and force it to cast our magic for us.

[Kimil Adrayne]

One word: Guntecher.

Having played Wartecher for all of PSU, I can say... screw Hybrid classes. At least the way they were implemented in PSU. Instead of choosing a class that was awesome at one thing or the other thing, Hybrids gave people the option to be crappy at both in PSU.

I have my hopes up for PSO2 though, if the Gunslashes are any indication of what to come (using both S-Atk and R-Atk together to determine damage), then it might not be as bad this time around.

[Jakosifer]

Is that Chiyoko from PSU? Huh, recognizing more old folks from the not-so-old days.

Anyway, the difference this time is negligible at the moment. At least when it comes to getting things done. CAST's do a serviceable job with Technics as it is right now.

[Enforcer MKV]

Having played Wartecher for all of PSU, I can say... screw Hybrid classes. At least the way they were implemented in PSU. Instead of choosing a class that was awesome at one thing or the other thing, Hybrids gave people the option to be crappy at both in PSU.

I have my hopes up for PSO2 though, if the Gunslashes are any indication of what to come (using both S-Atk and R-Atk together to determine damage), then it might not be as bad this time around.

*shrugs* that's fine, you have your opinion, I have mine.

[Chacron]

Level 40 FOcaseal here, I know many other Forces most of which are Newman and yeah, our damage isn't quite as high as theirs is. In all honesty I'm hoping for there to be hybrid or subclasses that allow me to be Ranger and Force.

Also it really, really sucks having so low def that you can't wear any good armor espcially the armor designed for Forces.

[Dr.No]

Cast Forces are 100% awesome, since they have a bit more HP and S-Def. :D Techs in general are pretty powerful regardless of the race using them.

As far as equipment tho, I can't equip any of the 9 star rods, but it's okay. I'd probably have to buy another skill tree to try to meet the req for them (I.E. Max out both of the T-Atk skills) along with maxing out the Charged Techs skills (eventually) in order to keep up with other FOs. Till then tho, *cast force tears at not being able to equip more rods*

[Hrith]

Lv40 FOcaseal here with barely 30 T-ATK on my Mag (Mag is Lv90), and I still kill shit (700~1000 damage with Rafoie in the Floating Islands).

FO is as boring as it is easy to play, even with the worst race/class combination.

[Garnet_Moon]

Cast Forces are 100% awesome, since they have a bit more HP and S-Def. :D Techs in general are pretty powerful regardless of the race using them.

As far as equipment tho, I can't equip any of the 9 star rods, but it's okay. I'd probably have to buy another skill tree to try to meet the req for them (I.E. Max out both of the T-Atk skills) along with maxing out the Charged Techs skills (eventually) in order to keep up with other FOs. Till then tho, *cast force tears at not being able to equip more rods*

The Microphone stand isn't that bad if it's at +10 if you want something that looks different to cast with.

[Kimil Adrayne]

Is that Chiyoko from PSU? Huh, recognizing more old folks from the not-so-old days.

Anyway, the difference this time is negligible at the moment. At least when it comes to getting things done. CAST's do a serviceable job with Technics as it is right now.

Yeah, that's me. Got too tired of that name, so I switched it up a lil.

[GoldenFalcon]

The extra striking defense of a FOcast is negligible, and the extra HP doesn't matter if you have an equipment setup with 4 Ragne Souls
It's not really worth it for doing 2 extra damage with Gunslash (and Rod swipes). Easy to argue that the 7 extra points in ability/dex won't save it

Bottom line: play what you want, dumping millions of meseta into failure games can make any race perform beyond the game's curve

[Magus_84]

One word: Guntecher.

I want "gun-using Acrotecher", personally.

But I did start out PSU as a GT and it was one of only two classes I used on that character (other being AT) after I got both GT/AT unlocked.

I really, really, really hope that the "tech-using new class" is one of the two that gets mechguns, and that it has skill tree stuff to make buffs better.

[raiden55]

the armor/weapon issue is true for some others combos also : i play RAnewearl, and i can't use most of the rares items...

[Chacron]

the armor/weapon issue is true for some others combos also : i play RAnewearl, and i can't use most of the rares items...

I know that feel bro. I know that feel. All this greyed out rare armor I have in my storage and I can't even sell them due to not having a myshop. Would be nice if I could just spec into getting more T-Def...but that's in the Ice tree....arguably the worst of the Force trees.

[Geistritter]

Just about everyone but Rangers is screwed in this regard; race and class combinations of almost every other kind come up short with nearly all the high-end units in the game. Awful game design at its most egregious.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Awful game design at its most egregious.

Are you really implying that something like this is worse than, say, stat differences in PSU? Because in this game, Newman Hunters can at least enter a party without getting kicked.

I've seen much worse game issues than this.

[eharima]

what I learned in this thread.

100% awesome BROcasts have marginally better HP and S-DEF.

Prolly gonna be to much gap at lv 100+ to be worthy of DMG output sacrifice if you havent started a FO already.



I've seen much worse game issues than this.
Yes, like not being able to internet punch DODO.

[GoldenFalcon]

what I learned in this thread.

100% awesome BROcasts have marginally better HP and S-DEF.

Male humans get the same S-Def, and 1% less HP, while having 5% more T-Atk and T-Def

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The main advantage of a FOcast: being a robot that can cast spells.

[Chacron]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The main advantage of a FOcast: being a robot that can cast spells.

Magical Robot's with Space Magic. Its a wonderful thing.

[Hrith]

the armor/weapon issue is true for some others combos also : i play RAnewearl, and i can't use most of the rares items...There are excellent weapons with low ATK requirements in all weapon types (or DEX requirements).

[Kimil Adrayne]

Seriously, I think this issue needs to be put to rest, as in over and done. This is not even arguable.

Why does everyone on this forum open with a comment like this? No one reads every post of every topic on here. We don't always know whats been discussed and what arguments have been made in the past. Chill out guys.

I know that MAG levels and talent tree spending can close the gap between Newms and Casts. But, if a Cast spends 50 MAG levels in M-ATK to reach the NEWM, the Newm has the advantage of having 50 levels to spend outsite of atk (ability, def) that the Cast does not. Goes without saying, I know.

The spread between highest and lowest in Force is just greater than in Hunter or Ranger, a lot greater. Was just looking for the experiences so far of the FOCasts/FOcaseals

[GoldenFalcon]

Long bit of wisdom streaming out of my banjo

FOnewearls have more freedom compared to FOcast/caseals. The FOcast can't have any fun with his mag if he wants to compare, while the loli can do whatever she wants and still perform as good or better than the cast, such as having a mag with 50+ ability for the Apse, meaning she wouldn't really need ability on her units either, and be even better

So, in the words of optimal play
FOcast: 1 possible setup
FOnewearl: many

[TaigaUC]

I've seen much worse game issues than this.

Well, regardless of comparison... worse doesn't make it acceptable. Think about the purpose of why some genders/races have better or worse stats, in terms of game design. It encourages people to play specific races/genders as specific classes, but at the same time it severely discourages diversity.

As it is right now, there is no reason to be a Cast/Caseal if you want to be an effective Force. The current benefits to mixing races/gender/class are negligible or pointless in comparison to the benefits of playing specific ones. This is clearly bad game design. In order to fix this, they need to introduce balanced variations of advantages and disadvantages between the races and genders, so that they can all achieve playstyles of equal effectiveness.

[Enforcer MKV]

I could have sworn I saw a stat sheet for all the different combinations....if anyone has it, post please?

[Zorafim]

I've been leveling all the classes, and I forget that android force is supposed to be the worst. really, I do my best damage with my force. If anything, I had to equip my uber awesomesauce 5* +10 weapons a few levels later. Once I got those though, and respec'd fire, I was machine gunning 500 damage rafoies and carding for 100, while feeling like I had as much defense as my hunter. I don't feel jealous of Newmans at all.

[Kimil Adrayne]

Riddle me this PSOW, what do you think of my FOcaseal plan:

Endrea
Class: FOCaseal
Talent Tree: Ice Spec, Max Freeze and Photon Flare
Mag: 100 ABL, 100 M-DEF
Role: Healer/Freezer

This is arguably the worst race/class combo, with the worse spec and an overly rounded MAG. I wouldn't be using this character with DPS in mind, I would be a heavyduty healer, with the capacity to use photon flare safely.

[GoldenFalcon]

Riddle me this PSOW, what do you think of my FOcaseal plan:

Endrea
Class: FOCaseal
Talent Tree: Ice Spec, Max Freeze and Photon Flare
Mag: 100 ABL, 100 M-DEF
Role: Healer/Freezer

This is arguably the worst race/class combo, with the worse spec and an overly rounded MAG. I wouldn't be using this character with DPS in mind, I would be a heavyduty healer, with the capacity to use photon flare safely.

You would only need 60 Magic Defense on mag or something. 80 if you want to use the crescent units at level 40, though

[MegaZoneXE]

In PSO vol opt 2 could cast resta, Sinows could cast gifoie..just saying

[Zorafim]

Yup, that's the worst possible thing you can fit into a party space next to an NPC. Freeze is a nearly worthless status, since it breaks faster than it's applied. Even fully spec'd into ice, I froze dragon once per boss fight (assuming a long boss fight).
Ice also has no useful abilties in it. I never got Photon Flare, but I've never heard anything good about it, and I know I can barely tell the difference with berserk stance on hunter. Losing 40% of your HP for a few more damage points per cast hardly seems useful, compared to all the other stuff you can get in the other trees. You could get Tdef up, to free up your mag for other things. And if you freeze something, and manage to keep it frozen, the only useful thing you can do to it is use that shatter attack.
Pure support isn't nearly as useful as it is in other games. People need to be in a support spell all four ticks to get the full use out of it, and buffs run out far too quickly to be useful. Healing is really difficult, since people run around too quickly to heal them. And they'll most likely heal themselves before you can get to them. It's also something anyone could do, regardless of spec.
As far as Mdef is concerned... You only need enough to equip the best armor. Getting high enough to use good armor is a pretty major concern, from what I've seen. Getting some on your mag may be a good idea, along with enough tatk to equip the better weapons as well.

I think you're best off as fire, regardless of your party status. It might change once buffs are more useful, but for now, killing things faster is the best thing you can do.

[GoldenFalcon]

Launchers with Freeze V would be passable as support, since it would take 5 hits to break the ice I believe

[gigawuts]

I have exactly one gripe with FOcast/FOcaseal (Which I intend on leveling by actually playing in the immediate future, just finished getting ranger to 30 with client orders)

T-Def. Yes, T-Def. I understand crippling a FOcast/FOcaseal's offense. That's totally cool. PSO1 had a system, though, where each race/gender variant had an actual use. HUnewearls had both S&D AND J&Z, and on E1&2 had level 20 techs - higher than the HUmar. HUcasts were not the top hunter because of this - they had no way to heal themselves beyond a finite number of mates. HUnewearls even regenerated TP when standing still, making their healing literally infinite. Now what sets HUnewearls apart from HUcasts? Bikinis. That's it. What PSO1 had was a good system, even "bad" stat-wise combinations were good because they were individually balanced with techs and such. RAmarl was a ranger version of HUnewearl, with level 20 techs and S&D + J&Z. Again, not strictly outperformed by RAmar or RAcast. RAcaseal was even there for those of us who just love evp (and robot maid outfits)

So I say reduce the T-Def penalty or even make it into an above-average bonus for casts & caseals (That is, if we can't address race/gender/class combinations on an individual basis). Let FOcasts & FOcaseals be the tanky forces. Maybe even let them equip top end force armor without raising T-Def at all. Why? The real question is "Why not?" There's no real reason something should be strictly worse than something else in this game.

Then again, that won't make HUnewearls any better here. So maybe hold off on this change until subclasses or hybrid classes are added, or maybe races are given their very limited techs and traps so HUcasts stop being the absolute best hunters out there and FOcasts stop being the absolute worst forces out there, and similarly for other bad/great combinations.

[Omega-z]

gigawuts - Actually they can already do this since every Newman type's goes Glass Cannon And think Def is crap anyway's (*which is not true). But Banjotron make's a good point tho about it being 14.5 from start then 5.5 at the end is interesting. That Cast's having better in every other stat better then Fonewnarl except T-atk since almost no newman will go Def ( and if they do they drop in T-atk and have a Cast be even closer). That too Newmarl is not as free as you think, just with it's T-atk attack. The "ONLY" big difference is speed on time.

[Coatl]

My main character was a FOcaseal, but in the end I created a new FOnewearl and turned my FOCaseal into a RAcaseal.

[unicorn]

My FOcaseal is flawless. I plan on keeping my FOnewm for attack and making my FOcaseal a support hybrid.

[gigawuts]

Playing as a FOcast and oh my god this is fun as shit, people love me as I shifta them constantly. Don't hate.

[Coatl]

Playing as a FOcast and oh my god this is fun as shit, people love me as I shifta them constantly. Don't hate.

My shiftas bring all the HUmars to the yard. >:c

[D-Inferno]

What makes FOcast and FOcaseal terrible is not only their awful T-ATK, but their awful T-DEF too. The bad T-DEF prevents them from equipping high tier units, which undermines their supposed "bulk". Their HP isn't that much higher than the Humans, meaning. FOmarl outclass them as well as FOmar completely thanks to better T-ATK and being tied with FOnewearl for highest T-DEF.

[Omega-z]

lol you guy's Focast is not bad it just start's a little lower in the Tech side. Racial stat's are moot at best and even a FoCast could beat a Fonewarl at the end since there Racial boost will be at 2.5% at Lv.200 with the current rate that mean's what you have (gear, weapon, ..etc) could pass that 2.5%. and a Focast at Lv.40 suck's for having what 51 T-atk less? ..... lolol that's 25-30 damage give me a break. and the 28 less T- Def lolol what ever it's not like Newman's will ever go def if they do they need to be dedicated to it other wise they will still fall sort to a Cast until late game if they do.

[Opy]

my cast is at lvl 30 force currently. I've had no problems playing solo in any area, so i have not thought too much about the stat differences. In fact it seems that as a force the character is a more efficient killer than my hunter was at lvl 30 in most normal mob situations.