5 Star Strike weapons Vs 9 Star ones?

[FlameOfYagami]

Lets take a Alva Berdysh with 50% Fire, +10, Volsoul&Power III

VS

Raizenork+10, Volsoul&Power III (without the 50% fire)

Which one will win in the end? meaning which one will do more damage. Will the 50% fire on the Alva Berdysh give it an edge over the Raizenork against enemies weak to fire or will the higher ATP of the Raizenork make the bigger difference and dish out the higher damage (even without the elemental help)?

[HFlowen]

Raizenork by a lot. Alva Gungir would be a better comparison, but the Raizenork wins.

Going 5 star is obviously much, much cheaper.

EDIT: Oh didn't see the difference in element, probably wouldn't matter anyway.

Double edit: This is gonna turn into lots and lots of speculation.

[Ana-Chan]

Well, the +10 S-Atk for both of them are 320 and 443, so with over 100 between them, in the general case it would be the 9* rare. Even taking the most powerful of that family, the Alva Gungnir, the S-Atk of that weapon is 366, so it would still be outdamaged by the Raizenork on monsters not weak to fire.

For how the fire alignment affects monsters that are weak agianst fire it is harder to tell since I'm not sure where the in the calculation the fire boost is added. If you take the simple situation of it adding 50% of the S-Atk, then it could be a significant boost. But if it works on the calculated damage then it would not be as much. I'm sure there was another thread that was doing research on this before.

[Dinosaur]

Rare weapons get a hidden DEX boost which is HUGE when it comes to comparing rare vs non-rare damage.

For reference, I had extensively used and compared a 5-star Rod with 500 T-atk and a Duel Gaze with 400 T-atk. It felt like the Duel Gaze was dealing more damage in the long run.

[Sizustar]

Well, the +10 S-Atk for both of them are 320 and 443, so with over 100 between them, in the general case it would be the 9* rare. Even taking the most powerful of that family, the Alva Gungnir, the S-Atk of that weapon is 366, so it would still be outdamaged by the Raizenork on monsters not weak to fire.

For how the fire alignment affects monsters that are weak agianst fire it is harder to tell since I'm not sure where the in the calculation the fire boost is added. If you take the simple situation of it adding 50% of the S-Atk, then it could be a significant boost. But if it works on the calculated damage then it would not be as much. I'm sure there was another thread that was doing research on this before.

It wouldn't amount to that much difference, at most 30~50 more damage with the fire element.

[Zyrusticae]

Elements do not work on percentages like PSU. Instead, they appear to be raw points of element damage - that is to say, 50 element is like having +50 damage of that particular element (subject to randomness like everything else).

So the Raizenok would still win. By a considerable margin.

[FlameOfYagami]

Elements do not work on percentages like PSU. Instead, they appear to be raw points of element damage - that is to say, 50 element is like having +50 damage of that particular element (subject to randomness like everything else).

So the Raizenok would still win. By a considerable margin.

Wow, elements are really weak in this game then. Maybe I will invest in a 9 star spear then ^^

[NoiseHERO]

I've actually heard otherwise in terms of how strong elements are...

and actually using a 50% element weapon compared to the same weapon with a weaker element, I could definitely feel the difference.

[FlameOfYagami]

Well I did a lil bit of testing myself just now.

Sadly it does seem like the element is kinda "weak" for example. I have a 50ice Alva Berdysh with power 3 volsoul +10 and I was using it against the the fire creatures in caves, then I used the very same spear but in lightning element (which ha sno effect on ice weak enemies) and the lighting spear was doing less damage but only by like 30-40 damage.

That's rather disapointing. Also at times the random factor made it seem like the lightining spear wasn't even hittting less at all!!

This is with a 100 Strike 50 Skill mag. lvl 40 Hunter.

[NoiseHERO]

Ehn that's weird... confusingly weird... e_e

[Zyrusticae]

To clarify, elemental bonuses increase damage against all enemies, but only a small portion of the damage is actually considered "elemental".

For example, let's assume for a moment that your base attack + affixes is roughly 600 ATP, and your weapon has 400 ATP + 50 of some element. The element only affects the weapon damage, so roughly 200 of that weapon's ATP is considered "elemental", hence why you only see a tiny increase in damage (roughly 3-4% of total) against enemies weak in that element. It probably doesn't help that enemies that are "weak" against a certain element are only marginally so (such that they only take, say, 10% more damage if ALL of your damage is elemental, like with techs).

Looking at the information in another thread, I may have been wrong about the relative strength of element bonuses; it appears it multiplies the weapon damage (but ONLY the weapon damage) by 1.00 + Element(*.01), so a 50 element weapon with 300 base ATP will have the equivalent of 450 ATP in total. Mind you, this extra damage interacts with nothing else - shifta, shifta drink, shiftaride all do nothing to affect them, nor does it take into account any of the affixes on your weapon (so that +60 ATP doesn't actually affect your weapon's damage - the game is misleading in that regard).

I don't know how true this is, but it sounds quite plausible given in-game experiences.

[FlameOfYagami]

Oh wow so having an element on a weapon helps again ALL creatures with an elemental weakness? I guess that's pretty cool.

I guess that 4% you talked about makes senses. That explains why the lightning spear was actually doing damage close to the ice one.

So in really having a +10 volsoul powerIII 50fire element 9* spear is very good because even if an enemy is weak to ICE/Lightining the fire element will cover those elements too and you will only lose on 4% damage.

[FlameOfYagami]

So I went ahead about a +8 Raizenork with VolSoul and PowerIII and no element.

I went ahead and tested it against my 50ice volsoul powerIII +10 Alva Berdysh against the Sil Dinia's in Hard Mode caves exploration.

The 5 star weapon still wins when it comes to highest numbers. With speed rain I was hitting up to 320 per hit however the random factor made it go down to 285 at times.

With the 9 star spear I was hitting 290-300 constanly. So for those who were saying that the 9 star spear would beat it clean you were wrong.

That said the spear cost me 2mill that I wont be able to get back, but that said I bought it because it looks super cool however I was slightly disapointed that it didn't out damaged my 50 elemental 5 star spear.

That it it's still missing those two last grinds so if I can grind it to +10 it may just outdamage my 50% spears ^-^

Incase you are wondering "why didn't you get an elemental one" because they are ULTRA expensive for crappy element too like 14fire.

No point in paying 5 mill more for that.

[Sizustar]

So I went ahead about a +8 Raizenork with VolSoul and PowerIII and no element.

I went ahead and tested it against my 50ice volsoul powerIII +10 Alva Berdysh against the Sil Dinia's in Hard Mode caves exploration.

The 5 star weapon still wins when it comes to highest numbers. With speed rain I was hitting up to 320 per hit however the random factor made it go down to 285 at times.

With the 9 star spear I was hitting 290-300 constanly. So for those who were saying that the 9 star spear would beat it clean you were wrong.

That said the spear cost me 2mill that I wont be able to get back, but that said I bought it because it looks super cool however I was slightly disapointed that it didn't out damaged my 50 elemental 5 star spear.

That it it's still missing those two last grinds so if I can grind it to +10 it may just outdamage my 50% spears ^-^

Incase you are wondering "why didn't you get an elemental one" because they are ULTRA expensive for crappy element too like 14fire.

No point in paying 5 mill more for that.

Actually, we're not wrong, we said, +10 9 star > +10 5 Star 50 elemental.
You using a +8 isn't the same as a +10.

[Enforcer MKV]

This just makes me happy I don't invest in rares at this point, they just don't sound worth it for the going rate, to me..

And yet I'm still gonna go for a set of those 8* weapons with the nice white and gold motif....

[HFlowen]

There's another... 53(?) Satk left in those two grinds. I'm still pretty surprised the 5 star is doing so well comparatively. Even more surprised that it's a berdyish and not the gugnir.

[FlameOfYagami]

Yes Sizustar, I understand it's not a fair comparison. But let's be honest here. Those last two grinds give it about 60 more atp which is nice, but I highly doubt is gonna make a huge difference. If anything the 9* will probably just win by a lil bit.

But when I get money to buy grinder stuff i'll give it another shot ^^

That said i'm still really happy with it. It just looks so cool =P

Yea HFlowen, well to be fair the Berdyish has 380 ATP at +10 with Volsould PowerIII So it's no joke. Plus the 50elemental. So i'm not to surprised that it performs quite well still.

They are quite cheap too. you can get them in this form for about 800k.

[Sizustar]

Yes Sizustar, I understand it's not a fair comparison. But let's be honest here. Those last two grinds give it about 60 more atp which is nice, but I highly doubt is gonna make a huge difference. If anything the 9* will probably just win by a lil bit.

But when I get money to buy grinder stuff i'll give it another shot ^^

That said i'm still really happy with it. It just looks so cool =P

Yea HFlowen, well to be fair the Berdyish has 380 ATP at +10 with Volsould PowerIII So it's no joke. Plus the 50elemental. So i'm not to surprised that it performs quite well still.

They are quite cheap too. you can get them in this form for about 800k.

It's not a fair comprasion, but I feel t hat it is a good thing that there isn't that "big" difference in stat for the gears.
As PSO2 is more of a casual game, t his also allows you to choose gears based on look, instead of pure stat.

[TaigaUC]

I set a few rules for myself to avoid future frustration. One of them is, "if I can't get a 7-9 star weapon to +10, it's better to just get a 5 star weapon at +10".

5 stars are usually what, 1/4 the price of a 7-9 star? You can resell them too, and if you can't get a 7-9 star to +10 then the 5 star should be stronger. If I'm not mistaken, it's also cheaper to slap affixes on a 5 star. If you're not looking to twink out your character, or you don't care about having a fancy rare to show off, then I'd say stick with 5 star and save the money.

[CultOfPersonality]

I hate how 50% of an element is only 30 damage.. I mean really? how is that 50% damage.. doesn't even make logical sense.

I guess the days of PSU style 2000 damage increase is gone.

[Sizustar]

I hate how 50% of an element is only 30 damage.. I mean really? how is that 50% damage.. doesn't even make logical sense.

I guess the days of PSU style 2000 damage increase is gone.

That thinking never made sense, why should elemental % = % of total damage?
It's just a elemental bonus, not part of the total damage.

[GoldenFalcon]

That thinking never made sense, why should elemental % = % of total damage?
It's just a elemental bonus, not part of the total damage.

With how people are used to it, there's no arguing that it means 50% ice, for example
But, for all we know, it just might mean that half of the damage goes through ice resistance, which would mean that the vast majority of monsters have negative resistance to elements, which their "weakness" being more negative. To do 50% higher numbers, they'd need to take double ice damage, which would never be the case. But, if the ice portion is doing 25% more, then total damage is just 12.5% higher, while that monster might also take 20% more from lightning, meaning a 50% lightning weapon would do 10% more damage, and there's no real reason to be picky over elements still (such as fire on vol dragon and darkness on ragne)

why did I type all that