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Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 03:47 PM
Something datamined by Agrajag.


*"Fighter" uses gunslashes and presumably all the new striking weapons.
*"Gunner" uses gunslashes, rifles, and twin machineguns.
*"Techer" uses gunslashes, talises, and wands. As of right now, it can not use techs, but that seems likely to just be a special case that hasn't been enabled yet.
*As of right now, subclasses apply the skills from both your main class and your subclass, and enable PAs for the subclass' weapons. They do not enable techs or new equipment (so Ranger/Hunter can use PAs on Space Tuna or Soul Eater, but cannot equip Sword or Glaive).
*There are no stats for the new classes, they just use hunter ones at the moment. I can't verify if they have skill trees or not, but the odds seem very much against it.

Got to say I never thought about it like that but hey, makes sense and it's nice to see how nice that will be so those kind of weapons will not be useless.

Discuss.

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 03:50 PM
Cool, but... basically, techer is going to start off as... pretty much useless then?

NoiseHERO
Aug 17, 2012, 03:53 PM
Wand better be REALLY good if this is the final setup (Which I somehow doubt) there's probably a catch somewhere...

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 03:54 PM
Cool, but... basically, techer is going to start off as... pretty much useless then?

Don't see why you think this.

Not Crazed
Aug 17, 2012, 03:55 PM
What does this mean? That has confused me :o

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 03:56 PM
I might be reading it wrong, but isn't he saying that Techer can't use Techs?

If so, what would be the point of playing a force class without techs?

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 03:56 PM
So does this mean Zipzo's idea was pretty close? No subclasses? Aw.

edit:


I might be reading it wrong, but isn't he saying that Techer can't use Techs?

If so, what would be the point of playing a force class without techs?

At this point we're likely looking at incomplete fragments of what will go into the class. I'd bet some of it is outdated as well, just left in the client when it was released some time ago and not updated because it didn't need to be.

Xaeris
Aug 17, 2012, 03:56 PM
Machine guns are going to need some amazing photon arts to make up for gunner's lack of launchers.

Takatsuki
Aug 17, 2012, 03:57 PM
I'm sure the tech casting ability will be added with the actual update.

HUtecher, here I come!

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 03:58 PM
And yeah, if all subclassing does is let you use skills, well that's kind of a bummer.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 03:59 PM
What does this mean? That has confused me :o

So we will have 6 classes

Hunter
Fighter
Ranger
Gunner
Force
Techer

then you pick one class like say you pick ranger, then you pick out of one of the other classes as a subclass that is not ranger like hunter.

As you might have noticed there are weapons like space tuna or soul eater this means as ranger as your main class and hunter as your subclass this will enable you to use pa's for space tuna and soul eater as a ranger.

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 04:00 PM
It should be pointed out in case people are in the mindset that the new classes = Subclasses, they are not. They are their own classes like HU/RA/FO and the Subclasses are just another System being added later.


I might be reading it wrong, but isn't he saying that Techer can't use Techs?

If so, what would be the point of playing a force class without techs?


but that seems likely to just be a special case that hasn't been enabled yet.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:00 PM
So does this mean Zipzo's idea was pretty close? No subclasses? Aw.

edit:



At this point we're likely looking at incomplete fragments of what will go into the class. I'd bet some of it is outdated as well, just left in the client when it was released some time ago and not updated because it didn't need to be.

There is still subclass's but what you all predicted was wrong, even Zipzo's.

Shadowth117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:00 PM
Edit: Saw Vash's post. Guess I misinterpreted that. Wands are going to need to kick ass I'm thinking if I wanna give Rods up for them.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 04:00 PM
So we will have 6 classes

Hunter
Fighter
Ranger
Gunner
Force
Techer

then you pick one class like say you pick ranger, then you pick out of one of the other classes as a subclass that is not ranger like hunter.

As you might have noticed there are weapons like space tuna or soul eater this means as ranger as your main class and hunter as your subclass this will enable you to use pa's for space tuna and soul eater as a ranger.

Oh, so it's what I was saying.

Yeah, that's cool then.

Do we know if you'll have just guarding and such with those weapons?

NoiseHERO
Aug 17, 2012, 04:02 PM
I think I can kinda see what's going on... but I have a headache and I don't feel like speculating and I gotta finish this drawing.

Not Crazed
Aug 17, 2012, 04:03 PM
So, next month we get the ability to mix 2 classes? So i could be Hunter and Force? OMFG.

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 04:04 PM
Apparently not, as he just said that it doesn't give you the ability to use techs/other weapons.

It could change, but yeah.

Xaeris
Aug 17, 2012, 04:06 PM
Apparently not, as he just said that it doesn't give you the ability to use techs.

It could change, but yeah.

If you were to go Hunter/Force, you wouldn't be able to equip standard rods or talises, but you would be able to equip something like the Duel Gaze that doesn't have a class restriction. From there, having Force as a subclass would enable you to link techs to it.

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 04:07 PM
That seems realllllllly restricted, though. There's not many weapons that have no class restriction, and most of them aren't all that good.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:08 PM
That seems realllllllly restricted, though. There's not many weapons that have no class restriction, and most of them aren't all that good.

But it is still something you can use such as hunter and force you can use space tuna and still do nice damage instead of having to use a rod.

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 04:09 PM
Apparently not, as he just said that it doesn't give you the ability to use techs.

It could change, but yeah.

If this is how the system stays I would expect many more weapons like Soul Eater then you can be something like a PSO FOmar/l by playing Force or Techer and Subbing Hunter or Fighter.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if the system changes on that when they get released so Subbing Force/Techer would actually enable techs.

CJ Johnny
Aug 17, 2012, 04:10 PM
Hunter...
Sword, Axe, Double-Saber and Spears (Partisan).

Ranger...
Rifles, Shotgun, Laser and Twin Handguns.

Force...
Rod, Wand and Thals (TechMag).

Yup..
PSO2=PSU Part-2.

Of Course.
This is only a Guess...... Haa ha ha...

Lumpen Thingy
Aug 17, 2012, 04:12 PM
Hunter...
Sword, Axe, Double-Saber and Spears (Partisan).

Ranger...
Rifles, Shotgun, Laser and Twin Handguns.

Force...
Rod, Wand and Thals (TechMag).

Yup..
PSO2=PSU Part-2.

Of Course.
This is only a Guess...... Haa ha ha...
if I ever see you in PSO2 remind me to black list you for acting like a child in PSU

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:12 PM
Hunter...
Sword, Axe, Double-Saber and Spears (Partisan).

Ranger...
Rifles, Shotgun, Laser and Twin Handguns.

Force...
Rod, Wand and Thals (TechMag).

Yup..
PSO2=PSU Part-2.

Of Course.
This is only a Guess...... Haa ha ha...

What? Rangers don't get shotgun, laser, and twin handguns, and hunters don't get axes.

Zorafim
Aug 17, 2012, 04:12 PM
So... These will just be like our current classes, but with new talents and weapons. Seems like the only reason they're implementing three new classes is so you can either specialize, or hybridize, when the subclass system is implemented.

Now complaining time. Once again, I can't use twin daggers and partisans on the same class. Why is this always the case?

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 04:13 PM
If this is how the system stays I would expect many more weapons like Soul Eater then you can be something like a PSO FOmar/l by playing Force or Techer and Subbing Hunter or Fighter.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if the system changes on that when they get released so Subbing Force/Techer would actually enable techs.
I guess so, but to me the whole appeal of being something like a Hunter/Force would have been the ability to quickly cast techs after attacking with your sword/partizan/whatever.

If I understand this correctly, you'll have to switch weapons just to use the two techs that are linked to it?

I mean I guess that works, but it sure seems a little awkward and very limited.

Gardios
Aug 17, 2012, 04:14 PM
That sounds really awful if all you get are weapon access and not new skill trees. I'd rather have full fledged classes with 2 subclasses for each (like Hunter > DPS or tank subclass).

Blah, not exciting at all.

Xaeris
Aug 17, 2012, 04:14 PM
Well, that's my understanding of it, but as I read it more, I see ways I could be wrong.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:14 PM
So... These will just be like our current classes, but with new talents and weapons. Seems like the only reason they're implementing three new classes is so you can either specialize, or hybridize, when the subclass system is implemented.

Now complaining time. Once again, I can't use twin daggers and partisans on the same class. Why is this always the case?

To be honest they're only adding new classes to have new skill trees and add the weapons without people being like ahhh! we don't get to double saber gear, and having them buy a skill tree reset so they add new classes to avoid this. This is my opinion.

Takatsuki
Aug 17, 2012, 04:16 PM
I guess so, but to me the whole appeal of being something like a Hunter/Force would have been the ability to quickly cast techs after attacking with your sword/partizan/whatever.

If I understand this correctly, you'll have to switch weapons just to use the two techs that are linked to it?

I mean I guess that works, but it sure seems a little awkward and very limited.

Personally, the only reason I want to play a Hunter+Force is so I can heal and buff myself without using items.

Anyway, so they aren't subclasses (not yet anyway)? That sucks...
Though I'm definitely looking forward to playing Fighter anyway. All the new weapons look really interesting.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 04:17 PM
I don't think what Agrajag found in the files will be what we'll play. It's largely incomplete. I know we have all-class weapons and they COULD be used, but lacking the skill trees and upgrades to those weapons, and only being able to use a couple joke weapons...I'm not feeling it. It doesn't fit right to me.

I expect we'll get skill trees for the 3 subclasses, techs unlocked for Techer, and access to our subclass's skilltrees (even if only with restricted SP).

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:19 PM
I don't think what Agrajag found in the files will be what we'll play. It's largely incomplete. I know we have all-class weapons and they COULD be used, but lacking the skill trees and upgrades to those weapons, and only being able to use a couple joke weapons...I'm not feeling it. It doesn't fit right to me.

I expect we'll get skill trees for the 3 subclasses, techs unlocked for Techer, and access to our subclass's skilltrees (even if only with restricted SP).

what 3 subclass's? Any class but the class your main class is will be able to be a subclass.

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 04:19 PM
I guess so, but to me the whole appeal of being something like a Hunter/Force would have been the ability to quickly cast techs after attacking with your sword/partizan/whatever.

If I understand this correctly, you'll have to switch weapons just to use the two techs that are linked to it?

I mean I guess that works, but it sure seems a little awkward and very limited.

Again if it is how it ends up working, you could Main Force and Sub Hunter then you could throw off Techs on the Subpallet.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 04:19 PM
Something datamined by Agrajag.


*"Fighter" uses gunslashes and presumably all the new striking weapons.
*"Gunner" uses gunslashes, rifles, and twin machineguns.
*"Techer" uses gunslashes, talises, and wands. As of right now, it can not use techs, but that seems likely to just be a special case that hasn't been enabled yet.
*As of right now, subclasses apply the skills from both your main class and your subclass, and enable PAs for the subclass' weapons. They do not enable techs or new equipment (so Ranger/Hunter can use PAs on Space Tuna or Soul Eater, but cannot equip Sword or Glaive).
*There are no stats for the new classes, they just use hunter ones at the moment. I can't verify if they have skill trees or not, but the odds seem very much against it.

Got to say I never thought about it like that but hey, makes sense and it's nice to see how nice that will be so those kind of weapons will not be useless.

Discuss.

Wait, that information is pretty confusing.

I'll take the info in two parts:


*"Fighter" uses gunslashes and presumably all the new striking weapons.
*"Gunner" uses gunslashes, rifles, and twin machineguns.
*"Techer" uses gunslashes, talises, and wands. As of right now, it can not use techs, but that seems likely to just be a special case that hasn't been enabled yet.

This is pretty straightforward. The techer with no techs I guess it's just something to be added later, don't see why people would make a fuss over it.


*As of right now, subclasses apply the skills from both your main class and your subclass, and enable PAs for the subclass' weapons. They do not enable techs or new equipment (so Ranger/Hunter can use PAs on Space Tuna or Soul Eater, but cannot equip Sword or Glaive).

This, apart from the fact that we will have hybrid classes, which I approve, doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather believe that they didn't enable yet the use of those weapons and techs for the subclasses in the early data. Because what the hell would be the use of, for example, pretty much ALL Force skills as a subclass if you can't use techs?


*There are no stats for the new classes, they just use hunter ones at the moment. I can't verify if they have skill trees or not, but the odds seem very much against it.

Which classes don't have stats nor skill trees, the new three classes, or the future subclasses? This is very poorly explained.

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 04:19 PM
Personally, the only reason I want to play a Hunter+Force is so I can heal and buff myself without using items.

Anyway, so they aren't subclasses (not yet anyway)? That sucks...
Though I'm definitely looking forward to playing Fighter anyway. All the new weapons look really interesting.

Even so, if this works the way people are speculating that it does, you'd have to switch to a force weapon just to cast Resta.. and I really don't see that working if you're trying to heal quickly (and who isn't?).

The whole setup seems really awkward and sloppy, especially with how weapons are so split up between classes.

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 04:22 PM
Which classes don't have stats nor skill trees, the new three classes, or the future subclasses? This is very poorly explained.

People need to stop confusing this.

The 3 New Classes are their own classes like HU/RA/FO.

"Subclasses" is a system update that will allow you to take any of the 6 classses and mix them together.

Zorafim
Aug 17, 2012, 04:22 PM
Even so, if this works the way people are speculating that it does, you'd have to switch to a force weapon just to cast Resta.. and I really don't see that working if you're trying to heal quickly (and who isn't?).

You can cast from your item palette. It does less damage if you don't have a tech weapon, but Resta is pretty strong anyway.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:22 PM
Which classes don't have stats nor skill trees, the new three classes, or the future subclasses? This is very poorly explained.

This means that in the data that the new classes don't have stats atm and using hunter stats but WILL be changed later on they also don't have skill trees in the data at the moment but WILL have them later on also.

Xaeris
Aug 17, 2012, 04:25 PM
I don't think what Agrajag found in the files will be what we'll play. It's largely incomplete. I know we have all-class weapons and they COULD be used, but lacking the skill trees and upgrades to those weapons, and only being able to use a couple joke weapons...I'm not feeling it. It doesn't fit right to me.


I agree with this, actually. I'm pretty stoked to play Fighter/Gunner so I can use twin daggers and mechguns, but the idea of having to find some rare pair of mechguns that turn out to be a pair of maracas or something kinda dampens it for me.

NoiseHERO
Aug 17, 2012, 04:25 PM
People need to stop confusing this.

The 3 New Classes are their own classes like HU/RA/FO.

"Subclasses" is a system update that will allow you to take any of the 6 classses and mix them together.

NOpe people are going to get more confused, then make more assumptions, then have speculation arguments!

AND I'M GOING TO GET THE POPCORN!

Takatsuki
Aug 17, 2012, 04:25 PM
Even so, if this works the way people are speculating that it does, you'd have to switch to a force weapon just to cast Resta.. and I really don't see that working if you're trying to heal quickly (and who isn't?).

The whole setup seems really awkward and sloppy, especially with how weapons are so split up between classes.

I don't really see the problem. All it takes is a couple taps on the D Pad to switch my weapon. I figure I could keep Monomates on my subpallete for quick heals in tight spots where I can't sit and heal for a few seconds, and then switch to Force/Techer weapons after I clear out the mobs if I've taken some damage.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 04:25 PM
what 3 subclass's? Any class but the class your main class is will be able to be a subclass.

Er, I meant the new classes.

edit: Techs can go on the hotbar and be cast with any weapon as a force, so it'll probably work the same way for any class that can use techs.

Not Crazed
Aug 17, 2012, 04:25 PM
*MIND BLOWN FROM SO MUCH CONFUSION*

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 04:26 PM
That I get, but I don't dig the lack of weapon and tech ussage. 80% of the skills in this game are weapon-based, and I refuse to believe that they expect me to whack things with a fish to be able to use my sword as Hunter subclass.

Simply, no.

It must be an early lack of data, or help me, I'm going to kill somebody.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 04:28 PM
Well it's either not what we'll get, or they'll put in more serious looking all-class weapons.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:30 PM
I hope this gives people a better understanding there are the three new classes fighter, gunner, and techer. Any class can be a subclass not counting the class (your mainclass) is already. All a subclass does is enable your pa's for a weapon such as space tuna not anything like you get to use any sword. In pso2's data they have no skill trees for fighter, gunner, and techer at the moment but however will have skill trees, also they are using the hunter stats at the moment also but will be changed.

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 04:31 PM
I donno, it's all quite confusing, and after all it is just unfinished, datamined information.

I'll just wait to see how it works once it's released, because honestly this all just seems far too awkward, wonky and limited.

Zyrusticae
Aug 17, 2012, 04:31 PM
I agree with the others in that I hope the subclass data is just incomplete and that subclassing enables you to use weapons from your subclass, not just the PAs. It's waaay too limiting otherwise.

D-Inferno
Aug 17, 2012, 04:33 PM
HUFIcast, RAGUcast, and FOTEnewm for me. Not sure which ones will end up being the primary or subclass though. I hope that the subclass gives you a nice stat boost to make equipping units easier.

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 04:33 PM
Well it's either not what we'll get, or they'll put in more serious looking all-class weapons.

Yes. Doesn't have to be more all-class weapons either, the game has tags on each equipment to allow only certain classes to use them. So it could be like PSO and some weapons are updated to be equipped by Classes outside their normal scheme, like how FOmar could equip some Double Sabers.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 04:33 PM
I hope this gives people a better understanding there are the three new classes fighter, gunner, and techer. Any class can be a subclass not counting the class (your mainclass) is already. All a subclass does is enable your pa's for a weapon such as space tuna not anything like you get to use any sword. In pso2's data they have no skill trees for fighter, gunner, and techer at the moment but however will have skill trees, also they are using the hunter stats at the moment also but will be changed.


Yeah but in that info you posted it says that subclasses don't allow for TECHNIC USSAGE whatsoever, or that's what I understood from it. Meaning that, if you pick Force/Techer subclass, you won't be able to use techs, not even linking them to your weapon.

Me not likes.

Xaeris
Aug 17, 2012, 04:35 PM
When it says it doesn't allow for tech usage, I take that to mean you can't use them from your subpalette. Not letting you use them, period, is just straight up insane; why sub Force at all then? Of course, we're dealing with incomplete info, I think we all realize that.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:36 PM
Well I mean if they gave the subclass skill trees and all the weapons

Ranger/Hunter

Ranger uses weak bullet and than switch to hunter stuff and use that skill tree powers.

No, no that is too broken.

But think of it like this it is

Main Class/SUB CLASS

not

Main Class/Main Class

Sub means to help, and it does help use the pa's for those weapons.

Zyrusticae
Aug 17, 2012, 04:39 PM
Well I mean if they gave the subclass skill trees and all the weapons

Ranger/Hunter

Ranger uses weak bullet and than switch to hunter stuff and use that skill tree powers.

No, no that is too broken.

Haha! That's just the fault of Weak Bullet, though, not the system itself. It's probably overdue for a nerf anyways.

I'd still prefer that subclassing allow for the use of weapons and techs for whatever is the subclass. It sounds too weird to not do that.

If I can't wield knuckles, twin daggers, and partisans on the same character... what is the point?


Edit: Oh, wow, if they do allow all the skills from both classes that you put points into... I guess I have to wait and see, but I can foresee, say, Hunter/Fighters with maxed out S-Atk on both classes or something crazy like that going around. (+200 S-Atk ahoyyyy!)

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 04:42 PM
It's waaay too limiting otherwise.
Yes, it seems like it would be almost pointless to even use a subclass like this. It seems to mean that since (for example) a double-saber is a Fighter weapon, and a Sword is a Hunter weapon, you'd never be able to use them together, as subclassing doesn't unlock the weapons for that class.

So, you want to use this type of melee weapon? Well, you have to change your main class. Oh, now you want to use this other melee weapon? Change back!

That's just... no.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 04:43 PM
Well I mean if they gave the subclass skill trees and all the weapons

Ranger/Hunter

Ranger uses weak bullet and than switch to hunter stuff and use that skill tree powers.

No, no that is too broken.

So isn't it broken then to be Hunter/Ranger, pick your Bouquet rifle to thow a Weak Bullet and them whack it with Gear 3 sword?

It's pretty much the same. No, actually it's even worse, because the opposite way you can just smack it with the Space Tuna. The other way around you can go with much more powerful swords.

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 04:43 PM
Actually want to correct something as I just asked Agrajag, you can't use Techs AT ALL if you Sub Force or Techer (neither equipped to weapons like Duel Gaze or from the subpallet.)

So yes this is very likely just something unenabled at this point and this will change when the update hits, else subbing either Force or Techer would be useless.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:44 PM
So isn't it broken then to be Hunter/Ranger, pick your Bouquet rifle to thow a Weak Bullet and them whack it with Gear 3 sword?

It's pretty much the same.

But if you don't get skill trees with the class you pick as a subclass then it wouldn't work like that.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 04:46 PM
But if you don't get skill trees with the class you pick as a subclass then it wouldn't work like that.

But in the info you posted it says you DO get their skilltrees:


*As of right now, subclasses apply the skills from both your main class and your subclass, [...]

If not, then what? You don't get weapons, you don't get skills, you don't get techs, all you get is to equip PAs on joke all-can-use weapons?

That's umbelievably crap. It can't be that way. It would the the end of this game for a great portion of players, myself included.

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 04:47 PM
You do get the Skills from the Skill tree of the class you are subbing.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 04:48 PM
Actually want to correct something as I just asked Agrajag, you can't use Techs AT ALL if you Sub Force or Techer (neither equipped to weapons like Duel Gaze or from the subpallet.)

So yes this is very likely just something unenabled at this point and this will change when the update hits, else subbing either Force or Techer would be useless.

Yeah it's likely the framework for the whole system isn't even in the release client. That's to be expected with something like this right now, and something as important as the ability to use techs wouldn't necessarily be given attention right off the bat. For all we know it's a hidden skill bonus in a skill tree, like step and guard is in the hunter tree.

For a great look at what falls into release clients, intentionally or unintentionally, check out the two years of datamining leading up to TF2's recent Man Versus Machine update. Stuff like textures, models, all kinds of things in the game were left in both intentionally and unintentionally. Sometimes it was removed in a later patch, sometimes it was left alone and never touched again.

This is cool information but I still wouldn't say with certainty this is how things will work. Maybe it's left in the client because it was completely scrapped? Who knows.

I'd really like it if we got something close to this, except functional, though.

lunarsoul
Aug 17, 2012, 04:48 PM
From what I am getting from this, is that these 3 new classes are Hybrid Classes. It says it combines skills from your main class and a sub class. So Im assuming again that I can be a Forcegunner, where I can use Rods, Talis, Rifles, and Twin Machine Guns etc. And if I wanted to be a Huntertecher where I can use Swords, Lances, and Wands. I fully expect Techs to activate for this class though. Its what I was hoping for, planned for stats/mag wise, and looks like its going to happen. Aww yea.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 04:50 PM
You do get the Skills from the Skill tree of the class you are subbing.

So then you do get Weak Bullet if you go Hunter/Sub-Ranger. And Bouquet Rifle.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:50 PM
But in the info you posted it says you DO get their skilltrees:



If not, then what? You don't get weapons, you don't get skills, you don't get techs, all you get is to equip PAs on joke all-can-use weapons?

That's umbelievably crap. It can't be that way. It would the the end of this game for a great portion of players, myself included.

I thought of skills as pa's I'm not sure though you'll have to ask Vashyron about that. I'll see what I can do though to find out.

Okay just saw Vashyron's post.

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 04:51 PM
So Im assuming again that I can be a Forcegunner, where I can use Rods, Talis, Rifles, and Twin Machine Guns etc. And if I wanted to be a Huntertecher where I can use Swords, Lances, and Wands.

No, it actually says the exact opposite. It says you can't do any of that, but this is probably just incomplete whateverness.

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 04:52 PM
From what I am getting from this, is that these 3 new classes are Hybrid Classes. It says it combines skills from your main class and a sub class. So Im assuming again that I can be a Forcegunner, where I can use Rods, Talis, Rifles, and Twin Machine Guns etc. And if I wanted to be a Huntertecher where I can use Swords, Lances, and Wands. I fully expect Techs to activate for this class though. Its what I was hoping for, planned for stats/mag wise, and looks like its going to happen. Aww yea.

People need to stop confusing this.

The 3 New Classes are their own classes like HU/RA/FO.

"Subclasses" is a system update that will allow you to take any of the 6 classses and choose "1 Main Class and 1 Sub Class" from any of the 6.



So then you do get Weak Bullet if you go Hunter/Sub-Ranger. And Bouquet Rifle.

Yes.


I thought of skills as pa's I'm not sure though you'll have to ask Vashyron about that. I'll see what I can do though to find out.

You get both the ability to use PAs (not techs, but again this seems incomplete as it would render FO/TE useless as Sub) and the Skills from the Skill Tree of the class you are subbing.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:55 PM
People need to stop confusing this.

The 3 New Classes are their own classes like HU/RA/FO.

"Subclasses" is a system update that will allow you to take any of the 6 classses and choose "1 Main Class and 1 Sub Class" from any of the 6.




Yes.



You get both the ability to use PAs (not techs, but again this seems incomplete as it would render FO/TE useless as Sub) and the Skills from the Skill Tree of the class you are subbing.

Ah okay wasn't 100% sure on that also, Agrajag also said


Equipment and techs are probably simply not enabled yet (like how they removed the subclass indicators from ALL the UI elements except the class selection screen)

lunarsoul
Aug 17, 2012, 04:56 PM
People need to stop confusing this.

The 3 New Classes are their own classes like HU/RA/FO.

"Subclasses" is a system update that will allow you to take any of the 6 classses and choose "1 Main Class and 1 Sub Class" from any of the 6.

Isint that the same thing? Its not different that PSU, Fortefighter and Wartecher were considered separate classes well, but they still had a mixture of abilities from the 3 main classes. This was supposed to be PSU2 after all until they changed the name, and frankly it does feel alot more like PSU2 than it does PSO2. SHould have just called it "PSU2... with Mags!"

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 04:57 PM
If I had to make a guess, I'd say that in the end, the subclass system is going to be the following:

- To use a subclass, you can equip any other class except the current one. So you have 5 options per class. For example if you're Hunter you can choose Fighter, Ranger, Gunner, Force and Techer.

(note: Doesn't this seem to be FUCKING complex? if the order of class/subclass matters, this bassically means that we will have THIRTY different options. I hope they know what they're doing, because they surely didn't when they went for 15 classes in PSU. If the order doesn't matter then I guess that's not that bad).

- Apparently subclass allows full access to that class's skilltree, PA and/or tech ussage (it would be unlikely that this is incorrect).

- As of now, subclass doesn't allow equiping that class' weapons, so you can only make use of those new skills, PAs and techs via those weapons allowed for all classes, like Space Tuna or Soul Eater. This I assume will be changed in the future, either by allowing the use of the weapons when subclasses are released, or by adding a new series of weapons for this purpose.

EDIT: BTW, where's Zipzo now? Maybe we can start planning the "Zipzo wasn't right" post already.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 04:59 PM
As of right now you cannot equip techs. Just pa's

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 05:01 PM
This was supposed to be PSU2 after all until they changed the name,

...What?

Vashyron
Aug 17, 2012, 05:01 PM
Isint that the same thing? Its not different that PSU, Fortefighter and Wartecher were considered separate classes well, but they still had a mixture of abilities from the 3 main classes. This was supposed to be PSU2 after all until they changed the name, and frankly it does feel alot more like PSU2 than it does PSO2.

No as until the Subclass system comes out (note the new classes are coming first, subclass system later) they are simply new alternative classes to use with different equipment and skill trees.

It will be closer to PSU Advance classes when the Sub system does come out ....but not really the same.


...What?

At some point Sakai said they were thinking about either calling this PSO2 or PSU2, though that didn't mean it was planned to be or called PSU2 first.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 05:04 PM
Well, I do like the fact that it will be similar to PSU if they'll bring me hybrid classes. Specially if I can make a full offensive techer/melee hybrid. I'll probably go HunterForce if I can make use of weapon gears and offensive tech damage increases at the same time, with swords and rods.

Might need to invest int two new skilltrees to adjust both classes into something more synergic, though.

D-Inferno
Aug 17, 2012, 06:05 PM
HUmar-RA
HUmar-FO
HUmar-FI
HUmar-GU
HUmar-TE
HUmarl-RA
HUmarl-FO
HUmarl-FI
HUmarl-GU
HUmarl-TE
HUnewm-RA
HUnewm-FO
HUnewm-FI
HUnewm-GU
HUnewm-TE
HUnewearl-RA
HUnewearl-FO
HUnewearl-FI
HUnewearl-GU
HUnewearl-TE
HUcast-RA
HUcast-FO
HUcast-FI
HUcast-GU
HUcast-TE
HUcaseal-RA
HUcaseal-FO
HUcaseal-FI
HUcaseal-GU
HUcaseal-TE
RAmar-HU
RAmar-FO
RAmar-FI
RAmar-GU
RAmar-TE
RAmarl-HU
RAmarl-FO
RAmarl-FI
RAmarl-GU
RAmarl-TE
RAnewm-HU
RAnewm-FO
RAnewm-FI
RAnewm-GU
RAnewm-TE
RAnewearl-HU
RAnewearl-FO
RAnewearl-FI
RAnewearl-GU
RAnewearl-TE
RAcast-HU
RAcast-FO
RAcast-FI
RAcast-GU
RAcast-TE
RAcaseal-HU
RAcaseal-FO
RAcaseal-FI
RAcaseal-GU
RAcaseal-TE
FOmar-HU
FOmar-RA
FOmar-FI
FOmar-GU
FOmar-TE
FOmarl-HU
FOmarl-RA
FOmarl-FI
FOmarl-GU
FOmarl-TE
FOnewm-HU
FOnewm-RA
FOnewm-FI
FOnewm-GU
FOnewm-TE
FOnewearl-HU
FOnewearl-RA
FOnewearl-FI
FOnewearl-GU
FOnewearl-TE
FOcast-HU
FOcast-RA
FOcast-FI
FOcast-GU
FOcast-TE
FOcaseal-HU
FOcaseal-RA
FOcaseal-FI
FOcaseal-GU
FOcaseal-TE
FImar-HU
FImar-RA
FImar-FO
FImar-GU
FImar-TE
FImarl-HU
FImarl-RA
FImarl-FO
FImarl-GU
FImarl-TE
FInewm-HU
FInewm-RA
FInewm-FO
FInewm-GU
FInewm-TE
FInewearl-HU
FInewearl-RA
FInewearl-FO
FInewearl-GU
FInewearl-TE
FIcast-HU
FIcast-RA
FIcast-FO
FIcast-GU
FIcast-TE
FIcaseal-HU
FIcaseal-RA
FIcaseal-FO
FIcaseal-GU
FIcaseal-TE
GUmar-HU
GUmar-RA
GUmar-FO
GUmar-FI
GUmar-TE
GUmarl-HU
GUmarl-RA
GUmarl-FO
GUmarl-FI
GUmarl-TE
GUnewm-HU
GUnewm-RA
GUnewm-FO
GUnewm-FI
GUnewm-TE
GUnewearl-HU
GUnewearl-RA
GUnewearl-FO
GUnewearl-FI
GUnewearl-TE
GUcast-HU
GUcast-RA
GUcast-FO
GUcast-FI
GUcast-TE
GUcaseal-HU
GUcaseal-RA
GUcaseal-FO
GUcaseal-FI
GUcaseal-TE
TEmar-HU
TEmar-RA
TEmar-FO
TEmar-FI
TEmar-GU
TEmarl-HU
TEmarl-RA
TEmarl-FO
TEmarl-FI
TEmarl-GU
TEnewm-HU
TEnewm-RA
TEnewm-FO
TEnewm-FI
TEnewm-GU
TEnewearl-HU
TEnewearl-RA
TEnewearl-FO
TEnewearl-FI
TEnewearl-GU
TEcast-HU
TEcast-RA
TEcast-FO
TEcast-FI
TEcast-GU
TEcaseal-HU
TEcaseal-RA
TEcaseal-FO
TEcaseal-FI
TEcaseal-GU

Oh, how could I forget the following:
HUdewm-RA
HUdewm-FO
HUdewm-FI
HUdewm-GU
HUdewm-TE
HUdewearl-RA
HUdewearl-FO
HUdewearl-FI
HUdewearl-GU
HUdewearl-TE
RAdewm-HU
RAdewm-FO
RAdewm-FI
RAdewm-GU
RAdewm-TE
RAdewearl-HU
RAdewearl-FO
RAdewearl-FI
RAdewearl-GU
RAdewearl-TE
FOdewm-HU
FOdewm-RA
FOdewm-FI
FOdewm-GU
FOdewm-TE
FOdewearl-HU
FOdewearl-RA
FOdewearl-FI
FOdewearl-GU
FOdewearl-TE
FIdewm-HU
FIdewm-RA
FIdewm-FO
FIdewm-GU
FIdewm-TE
FIdewearl-HU
FIdewearl-RA
FIdewearl-FO
FIdewearl-GU
FIdewearl-TE
GUdewm-HU
GUdewm-RA
GUdewm-FO
GUdewm-FI
GUdewm-TE
GUdewearl-HU
GUdewearl-RA
GUdewearl-FO
GUdewearl-FI
GUdewearl-TE
TEdewm-HU
TEdewm-RA
TEdewm-FO
TEdewm-FI
TEdewm-GU
TEdewearl-HU
TEdewearl-RA
TEdewearl-FO
TEdewearl-FI
TEdewearl-GU

What will you choose?

Gardios
Aug 17, 2012, 06:12 PM
I'm so happy that I only need to make 6 skill trees and not 30.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 06:13 PM
[SPOILER-BOX]HUmar-RA
HUmar-FO
HUmar-FI
HUmar-GU
HUmar-TE
HUmarl-RA
HUmarl-FO
HUmarl-FI
HUmarl-GU
HUmarl-TE
HUnewm-RA
HUnewm-FO
HUnewm-FI
HUnewm-GU
HUnewm-TE
HUnewearl-RA
HUnewearl-FO
HUnewearl-FI
HUnewearl-GU
HUnewearl-TE
HUcast-RA
HUcast-FO
HUcast-FI
HUcast-GU
HUcast-TE
HUcaseal-RA
HUcaseal-FO
HUcaseal-FI
HUcaseal-GU
HUcaseal-TE
RAmar-HU
RAmar-FO
RAmar-FI
RAmar-GU
RAmar-TE
RAmarl-HU
RAmarl-FO
RAmarl-FI
RAmarl-GU
RAmarl-TE
RAnewm-HU
RAnewm-FO
RAnewm-FI
RAnewm-GU
RAnewm-TE
RAnewearl-HU
RAnewearl-FO
RAnewearl-FI
RAnewearl-GU
RAnewearl-TE
RAcast-HU
RAcast-FO
RAcast-FI
RAcast-GU
RAcast-TE
RAcaseal-HU
RAcaseal-FO
RAcaseal-FI
RAcaseal-GU
RAcaseal-TE
FOmar-HU
FOmar-RA
FOmar-FI
FOmar-GU
FOmar-TE
FOmarl-HU
FOmarl-RA
FOmarl-FI
FOmarl-GU
FOmarl-TE
FOnewm-HU
FOnewm-RA
FOnewm-FI
FOnewm-GU
FOnewm-TE
FOnewearl-HU
FOnewearl-RA
FOnewearl-FI
FOnewearl-GU
FOnewearl-TE
FOcast-HU
FOcast-RA
FOcast-FI
FOcast-GU
FOcast-TE
FOcaseal-HU
FOcaseal-RA
FOcaseal-FI
FOcaseal-GU
FOcaseal-TE
FImar-HU
FImar-RA
FImar-FO
FImar-GU
FImar-TE
FImarl-HU
FImarl-RA
FImarl-FO
FImarl-GU
FImarl-TE
FInewm-HU
FInewm-RA
FInewm-FO
FInewm-GU
FInewm-TE
FInewearl-HU
FInewearl-RA
FInewearl-FO
FInewearl-GU
FInewearl-TE
FIcast-HU
FIcast-RA
FIcast-FO
FIcast-GU
FIcast-TE
FIcaseal-HU
FIcaseal-RA
FIcaseal-FO
FIcaseal-GU
FIcaseal-TE
GUmar-HU
GUmar-RA
GUmar-FO
GUmar-FI
GUmar-TE
GUmarl-HU
GUmarl-RA
GUmarl-FO
GUmarl-FI
GUmarl-TE
GUnewm-HU
GUnewm-RA
GUnewm-FO
GUnewm-FI
GUnewm-TE
GUnewearl-HU
GUnewearl-RA
GUnewearl-FO
GUnewearl-FI
GUnewearl-TE
GUcast-HU
GUcast-RA
GUcast-FO
GUcast-FI
GUcast-TE
GUcaseal-HU
GUcaseal-RA
GUcaseal-FO
GUcaseal-FI
GUcaseal-TE
TEmar-HU
TEmar-RA
TEmar-FO
TEmar-FI
TEmar-GU
TEmarl-HU
TEmarl-RA
TEmarl-FO
TEmarl-FI
TEmarl-GU
TEnewm-HU
TEnewm-RA
TEnewm-FO
TEnewm-FI
TEnewm-GU
TEnewearl-HU
TEnewearl-RA
TEnewearl-FO
TEnewearl-FI
TEnewearl-GU
TEcast-HU
TEcast-RA
TEcast-FO
TEcast-FI
TEcast-GU
TEcaseal-HU
TEcaseal-RA
TEcaseal-FO
TEcaseal-FI
TEcaseal-GU

Oh, how could I forget the following:
HUdewm-RA
HUdewm-FO
HUdewm-FI
HUdewm-GU
HUdewm-TE
HUdewearl-RA
HUdewearl-FO
HUdewearl-FI
HUdewearl-GU
HUdewearl-TE
RAdewm-HU
RAdewm-FO
RAdewm-FI
RAdewm-GU
RAdewm-TE
RAdewearl-HU
RAdewearl-FO
RAdewearl-FI
RAdewearl-GU
RAdewearl-TE
FOdewm-HU
FOdewm-RA
FOdewm-FI
FOdewm-GU
FOdewm-TE
FOdewearl-HU
FOdewearl-RA
FOdewearl-FI
FOdewearl-GU
FOdewearl-TE
FIdewm-HU
FIdewm-RA
FIdewm-FO
FIdewm-GU
FIdewm-TE
FIdewearl-HU
FIdewearl-RA
FIdewearl-FO
FIdewearl-GU
FIdewearl-TE
GUdewm-HU
GUdewm-RA
GUdewm-FO
GUdewm-FI
GUdewm-TE
GUdewearl-HU
GUdewearl-RA
GUdewearl-FO
GUdewearl-FI
GUdewearl-TE
TEdewm-HU
TEdewm-RA
TEdewm-FO
TEdewm-FI
TEdewm-GU
TEdewearl-HU
TEdewearl-RA
TEdewearl-FO
TEdewearl-FI
TEdewearl-GU[/SPOILER-BOX]

What will you choose?

And someone will whine that each and every single one of those combinations is either OP or UP.

Gardios
Aug 17, 2012, 06:14 PM
Holy shit, don't quote everything. :lol:

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 06:15 PM
Heh, good point.

Kondibon
Aug 17, 2012, 06:24 PM
I find this acceptable. I aught to get a new mag so I can go with something like techer/ranger though.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 06:25 PM
But, if the subclass carries on the skills, weapons and PA/tech usage and stuff, I'd assume that it doesn't matter what order you use. A Hunter-Force would be the same as a Force-Hunter.

Seyle
Aug 17, 2012, 06:27 PM
This isn't surprising. I would assume they'll take the route of only giving you a limited amount of SP from your sub class to use out of its skill tree. Maybe the route of FFXI, only getting half of your current level on your main class providing the sub class is leveled that high.

Also, FFXI had a whole lot of combinations as well, but people still managed to find the best combinations after a short period of time. So no, I don't think this system will be complex whatsoever, but maybe a little daunting for those not familiar with it.

Kondibon
Aug 17, 2012, 06:28 PM
But, if the subclass carries on the skills, weapons and PA/tech usage and stuff, I'd assume that it doesn't matter what order you use. A Hunter-Force would be the same as a Force-Hunter.
Well there's stats to take into account. A hunter for instance is going to have lower T-atk than a Force. The new classes will likely have their own stats as well.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 06:28 PM
Maybe. There may be stat multipliers, like you get 50% of the subclass's stats. But then you might also have 50% of both class's stats. Maybe the subclass's weapon's attacks are hindered somehow. There's a lot of ways to go about it.

But then I don't really expect any handicapping since Sega seems to be going pretty well with how they handle class balance and ability, things are more focused on what you CAN do instead of what you CAN'T in PSO2. They may be functionally identical. I'd be interested if they came up with names you automatically gained when doing certain combinations.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 06:31 PM
Yes but what I mean is that apparently the subclass gets everything the class itself gives. It might not give the stats, but that wouldn't make sense to me, the only difference between a Hunter-Force and a Force-Hunter then would be stats? As in that previous post, that would mean WAY TO MANY STATS to balance. ._.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 06:34 PM
Eh, well, they've made it clear they're not interested in balancing on a per-combo basis. Races have small stat multipliers of +/- a few percentage points, then class stats are modified accordingly. It's not being given NEARLY the attention it was in PSO1.

So with class combinations you'd see the same thing, really. And in the end it won't make much of a difference. Even weapon combinations won't matter, since they're all just different animations for dealing some damage.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 06:36 PM
Well, I dunno, seems too problematic ._.

Seyle
Aug 17, 2012, 06:37 PM
Yes but what I mean is that apparently the subclass gets everything the class itself gives. It might not give the stats, but that wouldn't make sense to me, the only difference between a Hunter-Force and a Force-Hunter then would be stats? As in that previous post, that would mean WAY TO MANY STATS to balance. ._.

If they restrict the SP usage of your sub class to half of that of your main class it will encourage class diversity. Force/Hunter will be much different than Hunter/Force, PROVIDING it works that way.

D-Inferno
Aug 17, 2012, 06:39 PM
They don't have to balance anything. Race differences are already set by the modifiers. The subclass will probably just provide a small boost to the corresponding Attack and Defense stats.

Kondibon
Aug 17, 2012, 06:39 PM
Yes but what I mean is that apparently the subclass gets everything the class itself gives. It might not give the stats, but that wouldn't make sense to me, the only difference between a Hunter-Force and a Force-Hunter then would be stats? As in that previous post, that would mean WAY TO MANY STATS to balance. ._.

I think it's a pretty big difference, especially if weapons start becoming like units where you really have to focus on a stat to get the high end stuff. I don't see why the stats would have to be balanced any further.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 07:00 PM
Well, balance is required in order to prevent some of, in my opinion, worst aspects of PSU, which are the fact that most race/class combinations were pretty underpowered, and most of classes were outright obsolete compared to others.

I don't want the game to have, as Sun Sol addressed, 360 possibilities where maybe only 12 are actually "good" combinations.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 07:02 PM
That's a good point. I'm hoping they balance things a bit more carefully, and give special attention to combinations with bad stats like in PSO1. That really made things fall together very nicely, there wasn't one single class that you got booted for playing (or would have if you could boot). I'm not holding my breath, though.

Magus_84
Aug 17, 2012, 07:04 PM
Well, balance is required in order to prevent some of, in my opinion, worst aspects of PSU, which are the fact that most race/class combinations were pretty underpowered, and most of classes were outright obsolete compared to others.

I don't want the game to have, as Sun Sol addressed, 360 possibilities where maybe only 12 are actually "good" combinations.

Just to stave off the inevitable "PSO was so balanced, let's go back to that!" comments in response to your post...

Charge/Zerk-spamming Slicer/Mechgun Hucasts. PSU was a masterpiece of balance compared to that.

That is all.

Triple_S
Aug 17, 2012, 07:04 PM
That really made things fall together very nicely, there wasn't one single class that you got booted for playing (or would have if you could boot).

V3 HUmar, possibly RAcaseal

Magus_84
Aug 17, 2012, 07:07 PM
V3 HUmar, possibly RAcaseal

Nuking Force in online play.

Remember damage cancel?

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 07:08 PM
Just to stave off the inevitable "PSO was so balanced, let's go back to that!" comments in response to your post...

Charge/Zerk-spamming Slicer/Mechgun Hucasts. PSU was a masterpiece of balance compared to that.

That is all.

I prefer PSU system like a thousand times more than PSO's, at least as a concept (and, if PSO2 does it right as we're assuming I'll probably like it more), but we can't ignore the fact that at the end in PSU most classes were crappy balanced.

My point is, if you make X classes (or class combinations), give reasons to play all of them in a decent way (other than nostalgia/roleplaying, like me, that I endured 6 years of Wartecher only because I love the Magic Knight role).

Otherwise, why even bother putting them? To make pretty in the class chart?

Jonth
Aug 17, 2012, 07:09 PM
You know what would fix all of this confusion? Sakai's new blog entry that went up today, that details all the info about the new classes and sub-classes... Oh wait... Dang it Sakai, update already! I've been waiting all day...

lunarsoul
Aug 17, 2012, 08:06 PM
Nuking Force in online play.

Remember damage cancel?

RAs became THE class after things liek Heaven Striker and Charge Vulcans with 50+ hit became mandatory. FOs were excellent as well (on private servers) because if used right, the spells were damaging and had excellent crowd control (Gifoie) and support, max S/D/J/Z/R.

The one class that eventually got left behind was Hunters. Wasent worth all that power when RA's and FO's can quickly kill mobs before you were in slashing distance. Its kind of like that in PSO2 now. If you look around the blocks you can kind of see more Rangers and Forces running around than Hunters.

Ezodagrom
Aug 17, 2012, 08:10 PM
You know what would fix all of this confusion? Sakai's new blog entry that went up today, that details all the info about the new classes and sub-classes... Oh wait... Dang it Sakai, update already! I've been waiting all day...
There won't be a blog entry today, there's going to be 2 blog entries next week instead.
https://twitter.com/sega_pso2/status/236281445839142912

Link1275
Aug 17, 2012, 08:16 PM
FOs were excellent as well (on private servers) because if used right, the spells were damaging and had excellent crowd control (Gifoie) and support, max S/D/J/Z/R.

Actually that server just gave newmans some extra mats(FOnewm became max stat-able realistically), and changed the merges so that they were easier to get and use. They might have rearranged the stats a bit, but I don't recall them doing that. They also changed some weapons, added some, changed some drops, went overboard on the anti-hack, and disabled quest rewards. So I'd say that what that server did is a moot point.

Magus_84
Aug 17, 2012, 08:23 PM
Actually that server just gave newmans some extra mats(FOnewm became max stat-able realistically), and changed the merges so that they were easier to get and use. They might have rearranged the stats a bit, but I don't recall them doing that. They also changed some weapons, added some, changed some drops, went overboard on the anti-hack, and disabled quest rewards. So I'd say that what that server did is a moot point.

For techs, the main thing they did (last I checked) was to drastically increase the tech bonuses on characters and from equipment.

Would've been cleaner just to lower the utterly ridiculous resistances in Ultimate multi-player, but eh.

Who doesn't like having two-thirds of their offense do nothing on enemies?

Skye-Fox713
Aug 17, 2012, 09:10 PM
*"Gunner" uses gunslashes, rifles, and twin machineguns.

If that's so, I might end up not playing till the update, looking forward to that combo of weapons.

Zipzo
Aug 17, 2012, 09:22 PM
There is still subclass's but what you all predicted was wrong, even Zipzo's.

This is a pretty poor, ambiguous and vague datamine job, but I don't see how the quotation in your OP makes me wrong. Things said in this quote contradict things Sakai said, and probably refer to the REAL sub-class system being added later down the line. The 3 new classes coming soon are just going to be upgraded or alternate versions of our current classes.

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 09:28 PM
Zipzo is going to deny that he has the ability to be wrong, even after the update happens and he's wrong.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 09:32 PM
This is a pretty poor, ambiguous and vague datamine job, but I don't see how the quotation in your OP makes me wrong. Things said in this quote contradict things Sakai said, and probably refer to the REAL sub-class system being added later down the line. The 3 new classes coming soon are just going to be upgraded or alternate versions of our current classes.

Please than show me where you said "There will be subclass's later on" I believe Vashyron said that before anyone else.

So there for you were wrong. You might have been a bit on there but overall you were wrong.

Gardios
Aug 17, 2012, 09:32 PM
I can't believe you're still doing the "I'm right you're wrong" thing, guys. D:

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 09:36 PM
It's pretty much just Zipzo. Any time anyone mentions anything about him not being supremely correct, he comes in and whines to everyone about how correct he is.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 09:39 PM
Well I'm pretty sure he was saying they'd have everything the current classes do plus more, so he's already wrong on that count for the skillsheets. If the stats have any negatives there's another one. If they don't have access to all the weapons and PA's, there's one.

If they add in the subclasses the way I said he'd be wrong there. If they do it the way I hoped, like in FF XI, then that'd be nice.

But it's not like it matters. I wouldn't go making a thread about it if I was right.

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 09:40 PM
Exactly! Now lets not give him the satisfaction of turning this into another thread about why he's "right", and move on!

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 09:43 PM
Well I'm pretty sure he was saying they'd have everything the current classes do plus more, so he's already wrong on that count for the skillsheets. If the stats have any negatives there's another one. If they don't have access to all the weapons and PA's, there's one.

If they add in the subclasses the way I said he'd be wrong there. If they do it the way I hoped, like in FF XI, then that'd be nice.

But it's not like it matters. I wouldn't go making a thread about it if I was right.

Yeah Zipzo did make a part 2 of a thread that was locked for a reason. Just to say he thinks he's right.

Also as I said before what Agrajag says is most of the stuff isn't enabled yet so we'll have to wait and see.

What Scotty said that too.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 09:44 PM
Yup. So he'll probably reply again going on and on, but I'm not really interested in dragging it out.

Let's avoid another 20+ page clusterfuck of penis measuring, shall we?

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 09:47 PM
WE'VE ALREADY GIVEN HIM TOO MUCH FUEL.

Prepare for itemized deductions about why we're all wrong.

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 09:48 PM
Yup. So he'll probably reply again going on and on, but I'm not really interested in dragging it out.

Let's avoid another 20+ page clusterfuck of penis measuring, shall we?

Yeah I agree, anyways let's get back on topic about this.

I'm totally going either hunter/fighter or fighter/hunter depends on how everything rolls out.

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM
I've been waiting to use techs with my swords since PSO2 came out.

They better not crush my dreams :c

Gardios
Aug 17, 2012, 09:53 PM
I just hope wands are cool because I dislike talis weapons so much. Really curious as to how the skill tree looks like, whether it's like the FO tree with wind/light/dark or something else entirely.

gigawuts
Aug 17, 2012, 09:54 PM
I want to play like a HUnewearl, except as a cast.

Or, traps for my HUcast. Traps <3

ScottyMango
Aug 17, 2012, 09:58 PM
Man, I miss old traps.

The new ones are neat yeah, but the instant-freeze traps of PSO ep1/2 were the best.

Laxedrane
Aug 17, 2012, 10:29 PM
So basically FFXI without your sub class being half your current mains level? I can get behind that. Pretty stoked to see the final product now.

Zipzo
Aug 17, 2012, 10:59 PM
Please than show me where you said "There will be subclass's later on" I believe Vashyron said that before anyone else.

So there for you were wrong. You might have been a bit on there but overall you were wrong.
I never said there wouldn't be. In both threads I was referring to the new "classes" being added in the soon to come update.

I never said they would never actually add some type of...sub-class system maybe later down the line, in fact it was Vashyron who was the person who was wrong in this case since he was suggesting that this was it (though I won't fault him for that, the evidence led credit to his assumption). I simply said the 3 new soon featured classes were going to be...exactly what they are. Also...this thread seems to be more about saying I'm wrong, than me saying I'm right. Too bad you're wrong about me being wrong.

Zzzzzzzzz...

Zalera
Aug 17, 2012, 11:02 PM
Also...this thread seems to be more about saying I'm wrong, than me saying I'm right. Too bad you're wrong about me being wrong.

Zzzzzzzzz...

So is this thread now more about you being "not wrong", or about you being "right"?

Lostbob117
Aug 17, 2012, 11:12 PM
Would be cool if Techer is like AcroTecher from psu you know, just support.

Darki
Aug 17, 2012, 11:42 PM
lol, how did this turn into a Zipzo thread what is wrong with you people?

Probably because of the fact that he was so annoying with his entitled way of imposing his point of view that we find highly amusing to see him proven wrong.


I simply said the 3 new soon featured classes were going to be...exactly what they are.

Didja?


I simply said whatever they were, they'd be upgraded versions of our current classes. And they are. I am correct.

Where are the upgrades, according to the new information datamined? Unless you're intending to exercise one of your amazing examples of semantic gymnastics where you reinvent the meaning of the word "upgraded" into something that actually doesn't mean "upgraded".

They're not upgraded versions of the old classes. If anything, they're "parallel" versions of them. You are wrong.


Also...this thread seems to be more about saying I'm wrong, than me saying I'm right. Too bad you're wrong about me being wrong.

The problem of such visceral answers is that you risk embarrassing your prescient capabilities when you're proven wrong. Too bad that you're too prideful to admit a mistake. But that's natural, if you weren't you would have known better as to make such statements.

Zipzo
Aug 18, 2012, 12:05 AM
Probably the fact that he was so annoying with his entitled way of imposing his point of view that we find highly amusing to see him proven wrong.

Whatever you're saying here, I don't follow.


Didja?Yeah, in fact I actually conceded to ScottyMango personally over the possibility that they would be alternatives. It's funny how you guys just love to cherry pick my words, and only remember the parts where I was strong willed, but not the parts where I actually do submit to reasonable logic. Typical.


Where are the upgrades, according to the new information datamined? Unless you're intending to exercise one of your amazing examples of semantic gymnastics where you reinvent the meaning of the word "upgraded" into something that actually doesn't mean "upgraded".

They're not upgraded versions of the old classes. If anything, they're "parallel" versions of them. You are wrong.
See above.


The problem of such visceral answers is that you risk embarrassing your prescient capabilities when you're proven wrong. Too bad that you're too prideful to admit a mistake. But that's natural, if you weren't you would have known better as to make such statements.Now you're just speaking frivolously. Seriously, why does everyone try to psycho-analyze me? I'm a dude on the internet with an opinion, it's none of your responsibilities to find out why I think the way I do. Don't think about it too much.

MelancholyWitch
Aug 18, 2012, 12:09 AM
this is still all speculation imo.

Arika
Aug 18, 2012, 12:13 AM
So does this mean Zipzo's idea was pretty close? No subclasses? Aw.

edit:



At this point we're likely looking at incomplete fragments of what will go into the class. I'd bet some of it is outdated as well, just left in the client when it was released some time ago and not updated because it didn't need to be.

Sub-class as in what JP gaming usually think about is not a real-class, but meaning as in "select another class to sub it". FF11 was the first of their JP MMO that allow sub-class, and a lot of other of JP game follow this kind of word since then.

So when I hear sub-class, I always thought of it as choosing 2 classes mix together too. My friends in team just explain me that most western players think sub-class as one new class, which is why many many people confused when hear the "sub-class" announcement from Sakai.

Magus_84
Aug 18, 2012, 12:24 AM
Seriously, why does everyone try to psycho-analyze me?

Because most people are uncomfortable with just saying "oh, that guy is ridiculously unpleasant in his interactions with me and everyone else", and they want to put a reason to it.

Others are not.

Zipzo
Aug 18, 2012, 12:42 AM
Because most people are uncomfortable with just saying "oh, that guy is ridiculously unpleasant in his interactions with me and everyone else", and they want to put a reason to it.

Others are not.
That makes sense.

I'd implore you to believe that there are actually individuals, however, who don't mind the nature in which I post. They can see through the bite, and the "unpleasant-ness" to simply see an opinion, nothing more. In any case...to always shift the entire thread on it is so unnecessary.

I still think, as I said in my initial post, that this datamine job is...just too fragmented (as Gigawutts said) to make any clear implications.

Magus_84
Aug 18, 2012, 12:51 AM
That makes sense.

I'd implore you to believe that there are actually individuals, however, who don't mind the nature in which I post. They can see through the bite, and the "unpleasant-ness" to simply see an opinion, nothing more. In any case...to always shift the entire thread on it is so unnecessary.

I still think, as I said in my initial post, that this datamine job is...just too fragmented (as Gigawutts said) to make any clear implications.

I learned long ago that trying to psychoanalyze someone who doesn't realize the abrasiveness of their phrasing obscures the (sometimes) valid data they're presenting is a waste of both my time and theirs.

Other people don't agree with me, I don't think.

S'why I'm trying to get the level cap CO done instead of participating in the past pages of this thread.

With the above said...I really hope we get some way to use mechguns on a tech-caster.

Maronji
Aug 18, 2012, 12:52 AM
I still think, as I said in my initial post, that this datamine job is...just too fragmented (as Gigawutts said) to make any clear implications.

It's most likely fragmented because the data itself is, you know, incomplete. If that's the case, then no amount of datamining will do jack until we actually see the update when it actually gets released (unless you can break into SEGA's offices and snag the beta build they're testing with).

I'm sorry, but this whole charade is getting old. I don't care who's right anymore. Someone please take the hint and put the clubs away.

MailboxJunkie
Aug 18, 2012, 12:59 AM
Here's an idea; why don't we just speculate on the fun we'd have with all the different assumptions of what the new classes / subclasses will be, even if they're wrong, instead of speculating who is better at making educated guesses.

I for one would love to see my hunter's invincible dash + all the SP in my s-att and s-def up as a sort of buff to sub with, providing they take the XI subclass route.
Fighter/Hunter would be perfect for me because of how I messed my skill tree up.

Darki
Aug 18, 2012, 01:06 AM
Whatever you're saying here, I don't follow.

No need to, anyways. That wasn't directed to you.


Yeah, in fact I actually conceded to ScottyMango personally over the possibility that they would be alternatives. It's funny how you guys just love to cherry pick my words, and only remember the parts where I was strong willed, but not the parts where I actually do submit to reasonable logic. Typical.

Oh, you mean those couple posts where you "accepted" the "absolutely slim" possibility of them being alternatives, fact that you "highly doubted", and that you would "inevitably" refer to that thread when the announcement would go by and "confirm your guesses"? Or when you kept going on to what these classes were, after that, for a couple more pages?

What is funny is that the instances where you're "strong willed" are by far more numerous than the parts where you're reasonable. These last ones are what we'd have to cherry pick, for how scarce they are, so you can't blame us for not cherry picking your words that thoroughtly.

You have a really interesting way of conceding. You even had to put the word in italics to make it stand out. Behold, Zipzo conceded.


Now you're just speaking frivolously. Seriously, why does everyone try to psycho-analyze me? I'm a dude on the internet with an opinion, it's none of your responsibilities to find out why I think the way I do. Don't think about it too much.

I don't really care why do you act the way you act. If that's the idea you got from my posts, sorry if I couldn't express it correctly. I was just stating the fact that you were wrong.

ShinMaruku
Aug 18, 2012, 01:13 AM
If it's like how it seems it could either be really awesome or really shitty. I'm wary. I don;t trust this dev team enough.

Darki
Aug 18, 2012, 01:17 AM
If they're just going to do what it seems now, which is to make the subclass to be just a "class x2" that carries over the levels, skilltree, weapon/PA/tech ussage and stats, for me that would be really awesome.

It would be really awesome even if they reduced the aviable levels, skillpoints and stats to the 50%, but I don't know how would they do this. Maybe the stats, but the level and skillpoints seem unlikely, because the skilltree is something that you customize... They would have, maybe, to "imprint" your chosen class as a subclass, then create a new skilltree or something similar.

What I know is that I have now a reason to buy extra skilltrees. There would be better ways to reorganize your skills now that you're getting two active skilltrees. One stupid example would be that you wouldn't need to put on Just Reversal in both classes (as the skill can be learned in all classes).

Cyclon
Aug 18, 2012, 01:21 AM
There's no way they'll be balancing all this porperly. What I really hope is that there aren't too many combinations that are considered useless, while one or two of them completely dominate the whole game.

If sub-classes really work like this, I'm afraid it's bound to happen though.

Darki
Aug 18, 2012, 01:24 AM
There's no way they'll be balancing all this porperly. What I really hope is that there aren't too many combinations that are considered useless, while one or two of them completely dominate the whole game.

If sub-classes really work like this, I'm afraid it's bound to happen though.

That's what worries me the most, too. =/

Hopefully, racial differences are not THAT wide in this game as they were in PSU, for now. And if they make this in a way that the order between class and subclass doesn't matter, that's half the classes they gotta think about. It would be 15 total classes (12 "hybrids" + 3 "experts"), still a lot, but well, let's have faith in them. They actually though of a simpler system than PSU, even if it allows for more combinations. I feel already much more evviciency in this game than in PSU, I hope it's not just that it's too new to show its faults. This feature alone could cause the rages of many, many players all over the world. I doubt I would play for too long if they screw up this thing.

Shadowth117
Aug 18, 2012, 01:50 AM
That's what worries me the most, too. =/

Hopefully, racial differences are not THAT wide in this game as they were in PSU, for now.

If you've looked at the stat tables, they're not very noticeable. I would wager that they differ a bit less than even Portable 2.

Darki
Aug 18, 2012, 02:37 AM
What I see more troublesome are the skills. Full access to both skilltrees mean that you can get Weak Bullet AND Flame Mastery AND Flame Tech S Charge, for example. That might hurt.

Miyoko
Aug 18, 2012, 02:52 AM
I've been more curious to know what the stat difference between types of classes will be... How will a "gunner" stack up to a "ranger"? Or will it be like... Multiplicative?

Absolutely DREADING having to level another class though. They better give us a faster way to get through that awful 20-30 grind.

Darki
Aug 18, 2012, 03:07 AM
I'd say that they might allow for passive levelling using that yet-to-be-used EXP bonus at the end of each mission. Fortunately I plan on going Hunter/Force and I have both classes at high levels already. I guess once I'm done with them I might try out Fighter and Techer so I can use all the "wartecher combinations".

eharima
Aug 18, 2012, 03:09 AM
I'm dreading the new combinations of attributes we gonna have to grind on wears considering
IM FUCKING BANKRUPT THANKS TO DODO DJCBDJSBDJSHCYYYDIDBFIDBDJFFFFUUUUU.

Triple_S
Aug 18, 2012, 03:14 AM
Absolutely DREADING having to level another class though. They better give us a faster way to get through that awful 20-30 grind.

Yeah, that's kind of why I haven't been playing much aside from trying to catch emergency missions.

Darki
Aug 18, 2012, 03:19 AM
But what have you been doing all this time? Even me who is a slowass who never got his characters capped in PSU got already two capped classes (well, k, one 3 levels from cap). Unless you wanna use one of the new classes as subclass, of course, but well, it's just one.

Laxedrane
Aug 18, 2012, 07:43 AM
What I see more troublesome are the skills. Full access to both skilltrees mean that you can get Weak Bullet AND Flame Mastery AND Flame Tech S Charge, for example. That might hurt.

Remember the dat miner said you only get the skills not the weapons. So you have to main ranger to to be able to use weak bullet. Then loose out on the tech bonuses from not be able to use a force weapon.(The highest rod I've seen so far has been just shy of 600 tech. That's a lot of tech to loose.)

Then again weak bullet +.... ANYTHING is a devastating combo.

I think the tech using classes will get sub the most if you cannot use the weapon of the sub class. Because very few stats translate over well... Actually scratch that, ranger a pretty solid sub. Only bullets would be unusable. But if you put all your points into let's say... Weak hit damage up or ability and traps. You can use those no matter what you main..

Hunter tree might be useful to a ranger for just for the damage bonus to just attacks and fury stance which apparently effects ranged attacks. Forces can sub hunter for the defensive stats. Gaurd stance has no penatly had T attack so forces could use that to make themselves sturdier and maybe even allow them to sit there and just unload techs without worrying about having to use their lengthy dodge.

OOooooo my head boggling with possibilities.^^

NoiseHERO
Aug 18, 2012, 08:01 AM
People are still speculating this scattered data as final? @_@

Also once you hit 40, pretty much getting to 30 again on another class with the same character, all the annoying parts are already done for you.. and you get a bunch of quests that give you 10-40k a pop. you could probably hit 30 before subclasses or alternate classes come out, just turning in your CO's on your 2nd class once a day.

Maybe.

That's what I'm doing, been working so far.

gigawuts
Aug 18, 2012, 08:04 AM
Yup, doing the same.

Except I'm actually playing the class too. FOcast is fun by the way.

Gama
Aug 18, 2012, 08:17 AM
after reading most of this.

we have our current 3 main classes.

HU-RA-FO

and the not so original "psu anyone" 2nd classed names.

Fighter Gunner Techer



i would presume that a combo like HU+RA would not be possible. overkill anyone?

So only a main class + subclass combo would be possible like HU+Gunner

From this we get the folowing combinations.



HU-Fighter - Fortefighter
RA-Fighter - new?
FO-Fighter - Wartecher
HU-Gunner - Fighgunner
RA-Gunner - Fortegunner
FO-Gunner - Guntecher
HU-Techer - Acrotecherish?
RA-Techer - Guntecher
FO-Techer - Fortetecher



i would assume that you gain acess to the subclass weapons and skills. or they would be useless.

darkante
Aug 18, 2012, 08:51 AM
I do hope that i can use Double Saber, Wire Lance and Twin Mechgun in a hybrid.

Ezodagrom
Aug 18, 2012, 09:35 AM
i would presume that a combo like HU+RA would not be possible. overkill anyone?

So only a main class + subclass combo would be possible like HU+Gunner
Since FI-GU-TE are apparently full fledged classes as well, I think that combos between HU-RA-FO and combos between FI-GU-TE are going to be possible as well.

Gama
Aug 18, 2012, 09:51 AM
hm that brings a bigger variety of combinations i supose.

FO-RA raping the game if they get weakshot or RA+FO or RA+TE or TE+RA...................................... oh my.

HU+HU
HU+RA
HU+FO
HU+FI
HU+GU
HU+TE

RA+RA
RA+HU
RA+FO
RA+FI
RA+GU
RA+TE

FO+FO
FO+RA
FO+FO
FO+FI
FO+GU
FO+TE

FI+FI
FI+GU
FI+TE
FI+HU
FI+RA
FI+FO

GU+FI
GU+GU
GU+TE
GU+HU
GU+RA
GU+FO

TE+FI
TE+GU
TE+TE
TE+HU
TE+RA
TE+FO

so these would be the possible combinations regarding the info we have. right?

well at least we will get some cool diversity of classes.

Lostbob117
Aug 18, 2012, 09:52 AM
Since FI-GU-TE are apparently full fledged classes as well, I think that combos between HU-RA-FO and combos between FI-GU-TE are going to be possible as well.

They are though.

Zyrusticae
Aug 18, 2012, 10:01 AM
Seriously, guys, stop harping on Weak Shot and the fire tech tree. They're obviously overpowered and the two in combination just highlight how obviously overpowered they are - that is NOT a fault of the subclass system if people can combine them.

Lostbob117
Aug 18, 2012, 10:09 AM
Seriously, guys, stop harping on Weak Shot and the fire tech tree. They're obviously overpowered and the two in combination just highlight how obviously overpowered they are - that is NOT a fault of the subclass system if people can combine them.

You saying this makes me think how power hu and fighter will be.

Sephirah
Aug 18, 2012, 11:17 AM
Haha, depending on if Techers get the ability to use techs, I'm either going to be a HU-Techer, or a FO-Fighter XD.

ScottyMango
Aug 18, 2012, 11:20 AM
Techers are certainly going to get the ability to use techs.

They would be utterly, straight up useless without them.

Sephirah
Aug 18, 2012, 11:30 AM
Techers are certainly going to get the ability to use techs.

They would be utterly, straight up useless without them.

Then HU-Tech here I come! Even though it's more fun saying FO-Fighter.

Darki
Aug 18, 2012, 11:32 AM
Remember the dat miner said you only get the skills not the weapons. So you have to main ranger to to be able to use weak bullet. Then loose out on the tech bonuses from not be able to use a force weapon.(The highest rod I've seen so far has been just shy of 600 tech. That's a lot of tech to loose.)

Then again weak bullet +.... ANYTHING is a devastating combo.

I think the tech using classes will get sub the most if you cannot use the weapon of the sub class. Because very few stats translate over well... Actually scratch that, ranger a pretty solid sub. Only bullets would be unusable. But if you put all your points into let's say... Weak hit damage up or ability and traps. You can use those no matter what you main..

Hunter tree might be useful to a ranger for just for the damage bonus to just attacks and fury stance which apparently effects ranged attacks. Forces can sub hunter for the defensive stats. Gaurd stance has no penatly had T attack so forces could use that to make themselves sturdier and maybe even allow them to sit there and just unload techs without worrying about having to use their lengthy dodge.

OOooooo my head boggling with possibilities.^^

The problem is that you can use those skills with the "class-free" weapons, like the Bouquet rifle, so there's a flaw on your idea. You could always use the Bouquet rifle to Weak Bullet your enemy, being sub-Ranger, and then you'd have the full access to your tech skilltree and weapons, being Force.

For example.

The inability to use the subclass weapons is surely not going to be a feature of those subclasses. It's like the Techer class not being able to use techs. It doesn't make sense otherwise. Most of the skills of each class are tied to weapons. The problem we have here is that we're taking everything here as "data", even the "lack of data". We don't really know if what there isn't in the datamined info is intended or just that they didn't bother to put it yet. For example, as I said, if you assume that the subclass system won't allow you to use the subclass weapons, you'd assume then that the Techer class won't be able to use techs. But that doesn't make sense, a Techer class wirthout techs?

Not to mention that if they make a system as flawed as that, blood will flow, surely. I wouldn't play the game much longer with that sort of bullshit. And I know I'm not the only one.


hm that brings a bigger variety of combinations i supose.

FO-RA raping the game if they get weakshot or RA+FO or RA+TE or TE+RA...................................... oh my.

[SPOILER-BOX]HU+HU
HU+RA
HU+FO
HU+FI
HU+GU
HU+TE

RA+RA
RA+HU
RA+FO
RA+FI
RA+GU
RA+TE

FO+FO
FO+RA
FO+FO
FO+FI
FO+GU
FO+TE

FI+FI
FI+GU
FI+TE
FI+HU
FI+RA
FI+FO

GU+FI
GU+GU
GU+TE
GU+HU
GU+RA
GU+FO

TE+FI
TE+GU
TE+TE
TE+HU
TE+RA
TE+FO[/SPOILER-BOX]

so these would be the possible combinations regarding the info we have. right?

well at least we will get some cool diversity of classes.

You got some detail wrong there. The info says that you can't combine one class with itself. You can't be FO + FO, HU + HU and etc. To make an "Expert" class you can only use a class with it's alternate, like HU + FI, FO + TE, etc.

Jonth
Aug 18, 2012, 03:32 PM
There won't be a blog entry today, there's going to be 2 blog entries next week instead.
https://twitter.com/sega_pso2/status/236281445839142912

Funny. I don't remember Sakai asking me if this was okay. It's not by the way. Okay that is. It's not okay.

Laxedrane
Aug 18, 2012, 08:41 PM
The problem is that you can use those skills with the "class-free" weapons, like the Bouquet rifle, so there's a flaw on your idea. You could always use the Bouquet rifle to Weak Bullet your enemy, being sub-Ranger, and then you'd have the full access to your tech skilltree and weapons, being Force.

For example.

The inability to use the subclass weapons is surely not going to be a feature of those subclasses. It's like the Techer class not being able to use techs. It doesn't make sense otherwise. Most of the skills of each class are tied to weapons. The problem we have here is that we're taking everything here as "data", even the "lack of data". We don't really know if what there isn't in the datamined info is intended or just that they didn't bother to put it yet. For example, as I said, if you assume that the subclass system won't allow you to use the subclass weapons, you'd assume then that the Techer class won't be able to use techs. But that doesn't make sense, a Techer class wirthout techs?

Not to mention that if they make a system as flawed as that, blood will flow, surely. I wouldn't play the game much longer with that sort of bullshit. And I know I'm not the only one.


It does make sense, they've done it in plenty of other games. Using techer as an example just bad eveyrone knows it will be able to use techs... It wouldnt be a techer otherwise!

Any who, plenty of games using sub class (Including FFXI which they seem to be pulling a lot of ideas from) has class specific abilities that sucked when subbed. It was the general stat bonuses people usually cubbed the class for.(Although square made it so almost every subbable ability helped the main class one way or another. Even if it was pointless.) Also even though you inherited it's skill levels at the level for which it was subbed. It did not allow you to equip weapons or armor based on your sub.

So why can't people have builds that make sense for subbing it? I know I will be building my hunter for subbing while getting it high enough to unlock fighter.

I know this is all speculation and I love speculating.. But there's no way you can say 100% either way.

Also bouquet rifle is pretty limited in numbers. That be bringing up all the people who attended woodstock!

ShinMaruku
Aug 18, 2012, 09:58 PM
Seriously, guys, stop harping on Weak Shot and the fire tech tree. They're obviously overpowered and the two in combination just highlight how obviously overpowered they are - that is NOT a fault of the subclass system if people can combine them.
They better be over power, just so I can scream, " Heed my words evil doers if thou dost wish to face the odinson, then thou salt feel the divine power of mighty mjolnir, never shall the god of thunder RELENT!"

Darki
Aug 18, 2012, 11:47 PM
It does make sense, they've done it in plenty of other games. Using techer as an example just bad eveyrone knows it will be able to use techs... It wouldnt be a techer otherwise!

Any who, plenty of games using sub class (Including FFXI which they seem to be pulling a lot of ideas from) has class specific abilities that sucked when subbed. It was the general stat bonuses people usually cubbed the class for.(Although square made it so almost every subbable ability helped the main class one way or another. Even if it was pointless.) Also even though you inherited it's skill levels at the level for which it was subbed. It did not allow you to equip weapons or armor based on your sub.

So why can't people have builds that make sense for subbing it? I know I will be building my hunter for subbing while getting it high enough to unlock fighter.

I know this is all speculation and I love speculating.. But there's no way you can say 100% either way.

Also bouquet rifle is pretty limited in numbers. That be bringing up all the people who attended woodstock!

But it doesn't really. You talk about Square making the skilltrees double-purposed so they can serve their roles as subclasses without the use of weapons.

Take for example, Force. Do you see any goal behind its skilltree to serve as a secondary purpose other than to use techs? The only skills that I see usable as a subclass in case techs are not permitted, are PP up 1 and 2, T-DEF Up. In case of Ranger, you have only another 4 skills that are not based on weapon/trap ussage (and two are R-ATK increase, only useful if you're planning on Gunsñash snipping).

In the other hand, a great majority of the Hunter skills are very useful even if you can't use melee weapons. Pretty much everything except the Gear, Step and Guard skills (which are like 12 skills) can be used by any other class, even the S-ATK skills, as you use that stat on gunslash, rods, etc.

What I mean is that you're setting a very bad example of your intentions. Of course you don't see the problem, as you're precisely intending to sub Hunter, but the thing is that Hunter is extremely useful as a subclass compared to the other two classes, IF they don't allow the ussage of the subclass weapons. Why would anybody sub any class other than hunter? To get only 2~4 useful skills so you can equip some exotic equipements that, anyways, you would be able to use with sub-Hunter and a properly levelled mag?

I can't believe that. If they do that the imbalance between classes wouldn't be as bad as in PSU, would be much worse.

Laxedrane
Aug 19, 2012, 08:26 AM
But it doesn't really. You talk about Square making the skilltrees double-purposed so they can serve their roles as subclasses without the use of weapons.

Take for example, Force. Do you see any goal behind its skilltree to serve as a secondary purpose other than to use techs? The only skills that I see usable as a subclass in case techs are not permitted, are PP up 1 and 2, T-DEF Up. In case of Ranger, you have only another 4 skills that are not based on weapon/trap ussage (and two are R-ATK increase, only useful if you're planning on Gunsñash snipping).

In the other hand, a great majority of the Hunter skills are very useful even if you can't use melee weapons. Pretty much everything except the Gear, Step and Guard skills (which are like 12 skills) can be used by any other class, even the S-ATK skills, as you use that stat on gunslash, rods, etc.

What I mean is that you're setting a very bad example of your intentions. Of course you don't see the problem, as you're precisely intending to sub Hunter, but the thing is that Hunter is extremely useful as a subclass compared to the other two classes, IF they don't allow the ussage of the subclass weapons. Why would anybody sub any class other than hunter? To get only 2~4 useful skills so you can equip some exotic equipements that, anyways, you would be able to use with sub-Hunter and a properly levelled mag?

I can't believe that. If they do that the imbalance between classes wouldn't be as bad as in PSU, would be much worse.



Your looking at things to specifically. Traps would be usable if you sub ranger so let's just toss that one right out the window.(The ability to use traps is a skill. Setting a trap is irrelevant to the weapon to my knowledge correct me if I am wrong) The only Thing weapon specific on any of the trees are bullets and "Gears". Gears only taking up 1 skill point

Ranger has the best things to offer as a sub in it's tree. Not only does it have traps, but it also has Dex and weak spot damage bonus. The latter being a huge boon any class can take advantage of.

You can cast techs no matter what weapon your using. So yeah, force will be the least likely of anyone sub besides techer. Unless they are soloing and want resta. Since my idea behind subbing it the only real reason to do so as far as I can see.(Right now it isn't perfect becuase I didn't originally build with this idea in mind. But Basically I am capping T defense and once 50 hits freeze ignition. Sub that to fighter and use Freeze weapons and use it to do explosive damage. If I could reset my tree I would cap freeze proc rate too.) PP Reversal could be useful to hunters as well.

Personally I have builds and ideas in mind if both are true.(With and without weapons) but I really don't see how without weapons subbing any of these classes would be pointless.

Zyrusticae
Aug 19, 2012, 09:19 AM
Without weapons it'd be pointless for anyone who doesn't give a shit about minor statistical bonuses.

Many of us prefer the flavor and style of being able to mix-and-match weapons from different classes with impunity. It's really that simple. Take that away and the ONLY things left are some minor skill bonuses, with some only taking effect if you're using specifically the few weapons that are cross-class (and most of them are joke weapons, at that).

I want to be able to make a bloody weapon master, dammit, and if I can't use both fighter and hunter weapons at the same time that is a damn bloody problem!

And yes, I feel strongly about this. Good grief, do I feel strongly about this...

NoiseHERO
Aug 19, 2012, 09:26 AM
Wait you guys REALLY think they're going to make it so that hybrid classes can only use ability req weapons from other classes..? o_o

THIS IS WHY SPECULATION ARGUMENTS ARE DUMB!

gigawuts
Aug 19, 2012, 09:40 AM
Wait you guys REALLY think they're going to make it so that hybrid classes can only use ability req weapons from other classes..? o_o

THIS IS WHY SPECULATION ARGUMENTS ARE DUMB!

Yeah seriously guys.

I get that we don't have the information, but it seems some people don't fully understand that.

What we see right now might indicate a trend towards what we'll get, but it is NOT indicative of what we'll actually play.

I still wouldn't even say with certainty that we can select all classes as subclasses. Subbing HU? I just don't feel that. It doesn't really fit right. It might happen, but I'm far more likely to believe you can main a new class, but they're the only subs. The current original trilogy of classes offer the most rounded gameplay, with tanking and ganking for hunter, a full suite of ranged damage and support for ranger in both stats, weapons, and abilities, and force being a peculiar combination of burst damage and support.

If I had to speculate I'd say it's entirely likely FI/GU/TE will simply be slanted towards specializing in that class's unique combat style at the expense of its unique supportive role/ability. This is an actually decent game design idea, and one that's seen in other games. All classes can currently support, but remove that specific supportive role and hunters (fighters) will specialize in slashing instead of tanking, rangers (gunners) will specialize in medium ranged DPS shooting instead of long range AOE artillery, and forces...I don't know what to say about forces. I really don't. They don't get bonuses to support. Perhaps that's what the techer class will focus on, since there's clearly no way to specialize in healing and buffing besides going for PP Up.

The supportive roles such as tanking, long range AOE, and force-i-have-nfi aren't really supplemental. They're core, focused abilities. You don't tack them on as an afterthought. They're the entire point of the class. You can deal damage any which way you want, but you don't go Ranger if you want to tank everything and you don't go hunter if you want to buff your entire party's damage.

I admit it: This idea only fits 2/3 classes. There simply isn't enough information to really say this with certainty, but I will definitely say it fits based on hunter/fighter and ranger/gunner. The two original classes are kind of a base. I half expect in the future we'll get a tank class that can be either mained or supplemental to the original class, but I really can't see the original class being supplemental to the new ones except as a second thought stat buff.