Atm Pos Return (regarding AC purchases)

[TetsuyaHikari]

So, I just got two new statements on my bank account today regarding the purchases I made for AC back at the beginning of August. This was before I had to resort to using Webmoney to get AC. It reads, 'Atm Pos Return E-PAYMENT SERVICE TOKYO JP'. Does anybody have an idea as to what "Atm Pos Return" means?

I've never seen before. All I know is, the money I spent on the AC has been credited back to my account ($25.52 to be exact). What I'm basically wanting to know is at this point, is it safe for me to spend that money or are they going to come reclaim it again in the future?

I've been a little confused ever since I first purchased AC, but at least with Webmoney, it has been a less painful process and the money is taken out as soon as I make the purchase.

[Yunfa]

The same has happened to me as well.

[Inazuma]

Does anybody have an idea as to what "Atm Pos Return" means?
Since we are talking about banks, they probably mean:

ATM = Automated Teller Machine
POS = Point of Sale

That doesn't make much sense since these charges weren't done at an ATM or at point of sale. Does the internet count as point of sale? I guess it's just a way to say the money was returned.

As for why the money was returned, I'm not sure. It makes me very worried though.

[IzzyData]

It seems like you got your money back and they are unlikely to come looking for it in the future due to the huge number of transactions they deal with. I don't think anything will happen to the money or your account unless you do it repeatedly. They will probably catch on and suspend your account.

[gigawuts]

Even if we get banned over this, I've got my money back so I'm not going to be crying too loudly.

[Garnet_Moon]

Your money was returned... but did you get the AC? If you did, expect a visit from the Yakuza for stealing from SoJ.

[BIG OLAF]

This also happened to me. In addition, it seems that foreign credit cards cannot even purchase the 500 AC bundles, as they could prior to when I noticed this.

[CelestialBlade]

No refund here, bought 3000AC at the end of July. Weird.

[Wayu]

Beginning of foreign IP ban? :o

That aside, when did you guys get your AC and how did you get it? Was there a common card used among the refunded?

-Wayu

[TetsuyaHikari]

I still have the AC on my account from when I purchased it, but since this was an isolated incident, I don't think they will take action. It's one thing to do this unknowingly, but it's another thing entirely to exploit this for personal gain. I've already switched to Webmoney, so as long as they have on file that I made an effort to switch my payment plan, it should be okay.

The card I used was Mastercard, by the way.

[KEV1N]

Purchased AC on July 6.
Money taken on August 6.
Money is now back in my account along with overseas transaction charges and listed as a 'correction'.

[sugarFO]

No refund here, bought 3000AC at the end of July. Weird.

Same, I see no refund.

[NoiseHERO]

So if they IP ban us they can say "at least you got your money back" LOL...

That's KIND of cool... minus the whole IP banning part. (Not to say that in a way where we actually ARE getting IP-banned but who knows.)

Have to check my account. >_>;

[Sizustar]

The issue seems to be more with Isao or issueing bank, as this also occured with none-US(Taiwan) Credit Card user who got their fund returned.

But this is probabely what Sega was talking about, in which they were not able to receive the fund, so they are not allowing foreign Credit Card.

[Crysteon]

Well....*inserts dense comment here* that's what they get for being xenophobic with baka gaijins! *end of dense comment*

Somehow, I find all this stuff like their way to say: "Look, I dont want to deal with your weird transactions, so here's your money and I will ban you later, k? +^_^+"

[BIG OLAF]

I'm going to wait until the next JP billing cycle to see if everything gets taken out again before I move a muscle.

[Garnet_Moon]

I can't even find my one and only AC purchase from like 2 months ago. This is odd. Hmm...

[ScottyMango]

I got mine back, as well.

Which is cool, because now I actually have money in my bank account, but it worries me a bit.

[Neirene]

Just checked my bank and indeed they refunded me 15 euro the 25th of this month at the name of E-PAYMENT SERVICE

[ps0k1d]

I got my money back as well just yesterday, only spent about 20 bucks on AC. I was able to use it all up though as soon as i got it. Strange why they are refunding everyone though.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

NEK MINNIT, Banned

[gigawuts]

NEK MINNIT, Banned

I meant it when I said that would be the exact post I make. I'll have to search, but I'll do it!

[Zyrusticae]

Yeeaeaah... Not sure what's going on here. I got the same thing.


I guess it's a good thing I switched to webmoney, eh?

[NoiseHERO]

So this is all because foreign transactions are THAT big of a pain huh?

I could imagine since it took them a month just to "get" the money.

It could be because of that there'd be some confusion with the customer (the money not subtracting from their balance, god knows what chaos that'd bring) AND SEGA, AND it being a pain in the ass to do the transaction in general all mixed into one big...

"Fuck this."

Result.

And we all just get our money back.

Maybe it's not EVERYONE because people have different cards that are less of a bitch to deal with.

(Or we're all getting IPMAN'D)

[Sizustar]

So this is all because foreign transactions are THAT big of a pain huh?

I could imagine since it took them a month just to "get" the money.

It could be because of that there'd be some confusion with the customer (the money not subtracting from their balance, god knows what chaos that'd bring) AND SEGA, AND it being a pain in the ass to do the transaction in general all mixed into one big...

"Fuck this."

Result.

And we all just get our money back.

Maybe it's not EVERYONE because people have different cards that are less of a bitch to deal with.

(Or we're all getting IPMAN'D)

It's not Sega that's doing the transaction, it's ISAO.
And from what I understand, it is a big problem, mainly due to the tax and credit card law in Japan.
Which is paypal isn't being used in Japan, and also why many online service only accept JCB card in Japan.

[Inazuma]

I just checked the bank statements for the two credit cards I've used to buy AC.

My American Express had no refunds.

However, my Visa card has a refund for $132. I had made one 10k yen purchase with that card and it was fully refunded.

It's great getting my $132 back but hopefully they don't ban me over it. Since the American Express had no refunds, I guess that's a good credit card for us to use in the future.

[EvilMag]

Oh boy, I'll be looking forward to everyone be afraid that we're gonna get IP banned cause of this.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

I'm just waiting for someone to pop out of the woodwork and threaten to sue Sega with a class action lawsuit... How dare they refund your money!

[FlameOfYagami]

I wish I would have spammed AC :(

I got my 16 dollars back aswell ^^;

[Anon_Fire]

NEK MINNIT, Banned

You're not funny. :(

[Angelo]

I haven't got any money refunded to my account.

It's kind of strange it even worked the first time since I bank through USAA (military and law-enforcement bank) and they are really strict when it comes to the slightest suspicious activity.

Mastercard, btw.

[Anon_Fire]

I got refunded.

[Shugo17]

The money didn't get refunded, it just takes so long to process that the bank thinks the transaction failed. In about a month or two it'll get taken out again. This happened to me the last time I got AC.

[Angelo]

I also want to point out that internet lingo has corrupted my mind to the point where I read the thread title as "At the moment piece of shit Return"

[FOnewearl-Lina]

The money didn't get refunded, it just takes so long to process that the bank thinks the transaction failed. In about a month or two it'll get taken out again. This happened to me the last time I got AC.

That would be nice, but this time it's previous transactions being refunded, not simply an authorisation request.

[steverowland]

The money didn't get refunded, it just takes so long to process that the bank thinks the transaction failed. In about a month or two it'll get taken out again. This happened to me the last time I got AC.


This is the money that already returned after 14 days and then got taken away month later we are talking about. Now it is back once again.
It is the very first transaction I made on July 3rd just when they activated AC purchases. At the same time they returned all additional transactions I made during later content patches.

Also worth noting that in July I have been purchasing stuff from another Japanese site (getchu) and they seem to be using same company to handle international CC transactions, however everything went fine with them and they didn't return anything.

Also one last thing, it seems that the payment provider took the money (as they were billed from my bank account) but didn't succeed to deliver them to Sega, the transactions I now received appear to be new payment orders issued by the payment provider, because Sega didn't take it. That would explain the block for foreign CC payments because they are incompetent to take it.

So for me Sega is to blame for this, not Japanese card system, as I can see my mastercard working fine when purchasing from other JP stores like getchu.

[ps0k1d]

Yeah I called my bank and they confirmed the refund. Well it is nice to have my money back at least. Must be even better for the people who spent hundreds in AC.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

getchu

Getchu ships porn internationally? Damn, wish I had known this sooner! :(

Also, the same system worked in the days of PSU, so I just guess it's the huge volume of transactions they don't want as the number of foreign players increased exponentially.

[steverowland]

Getchu ships porn internationally? Damn, wish I had known this sooner! :(

some of them they have for DL (its very slow xD) so you can buy like doujin eroge and such there for normal prices and not in those overpriced english shops

[TetsuyaHikari]

The money didn't get refunded, it just takes so long to process that the bank thinks the transaction failed. In about a month or two it'll get taken out again. This happened to me the last time I got AC.

Yeah, this already happened before, but the money was taken out anyway later on. The transaction I made for this was a different one. This time it was just refunded, period. I don't see them removing it again.

Also, the last time my money was refunded, it showed up at something different on my bank statement, not as 'ATM Pos Return'. Good thing I'm going the Webmoney route though. Sure, they may not ban me for this, but they could certainly take legal action if I were to use this "loophole" to extract more AC from them for free.

[gigawuts]

Yep, it's webmoney for me from here on out. That is, if I don't get banned. I'm not buying ANYTHING until probably the day of the next content update, maybe the day after.

Time to start emptying my premium bank area!

[FlameOfYagami]

D@t b@N h@m@h c0m1ng up!!!

[DemonMike]

Burning question here:

How many of you guys used Sega HQ as an address?

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Burning question here:

How many of you guys used Sega HQ as an address?

Or TENSO... I imagine a good number of people use this because it was so widely publicised.

[DemonMike]

Or TENSO... I imagine a good number of people use this because it was so widely publicised.

I forgot some people were using those.

I'm just trying to find the pattern really. It may be possible that ISAO is refunding all credit card transactions from blatantly false addresses.

I'm yet to receive a refund, but I used an address that I'm actually due to stay at for a while, even though I'm not there yet heh.

[KyAniki]

Just throwing it out there that I used my real address in Japan with my American credit card and still got the refund so I think it's all foreign cards.

[DGRotek]

What there banning people outside japan...? O_O

[TetsuyaHikari]

Burning question here:

How many of you guys used Sega HQ as an address?

I just used the one they provided in the sample when I signed up, lol. That's the information I used for everything. If that was SoJ HQ, then I guess that's what I used.


What there banning people outside japan...? O_O

No. They are banning foreign cards from being used to make transactions for AC since there seems to be some kind of problem with ISAO accepting the money.

[NoiseHERO]

Got all my money back....

I still don't think it's as simple as IP banning refunding or something.

But even if it was, by now most of us should be anticipating the IP ban anyway.

I still find it weird and general that they just... gave all that money back.

[DemonMike]

Just throwing it out there that I used my real address in Japan with my American credit card and still got the refund so I think it's all foreign cards.

The mystery deepens!

I'll be keeping an eye on my bank in that case then. I'm due in Japan next week, I wonder what'll happen if they refund me yet I'm playing via a valid Japanese domestic IP address? =3

[FOnewearl-Lina]

The mystery deepens!

I'll be keeping an eye on my bank in that case then. I'm due in Japan next week, I wonder what'll happen if they refund me yet I'm playing via a valid Japanese domestic IP address? =3

No mystery, Sakai said in a blog post that they were blocking all foreign (non-AMEX apparently) credit cards, so I'm pretty sure a refund will be coming your way.

[DemonMike]

No mystery, Sakai said in a blog post that they were blocking all foreign (non-AMEX apparently) credit cards, so I'm pretty sure a refund will be coming your way.

Completely didn't realise I had a reply..

There's not really a mystery per-se, but it's very indicative of a ban heading our way. Especially considering they've essentially given people free in-game content if they refund AFTER the AC has been spent.

I'm personally still waiting on this refund, but it's incredibly strange how they are refunding AC purchases that were made before the ToS change. I'm also intrigued because from next week onwards I will technically be abiding by the ToS because I'll be playing within Japan.

I guess all we can do is wait!

[Sizustar]

Completely didn't realise I had a reply..

There's not really a mystery per-se, but it's very indicative of a ban heading our way. Especially considering they've essentially given people free in-game content if they refund AFTER the AC has been spent.

I'm personally still waiting on this refund, but it's incredibly strange how they are refunding AC purchases that were made before the ToS change. I'm also intrigued because from next week onwards I will technically be abiding by the ToS because I'll be playing within Japan.

I guess all we can do is wait!

It's not strange that it takes a month+ for sega to do some sort of action as payment will also take up to a month to process.
So taking a month to implment the no foreign credit card idn't that odd.

[Arika]

No mystery, Sakai said in a blog post that they were blocking all foreign (non-AMEX apparently) credit cards, so I'm pretty sure a refund will be coming your way.

Yes, kidda simply as that. So anybody who bought it using non-WM or non-Amex method then all will get refund. Some people haven't got refund yet, because they didn't pay it early like other, that is all.

I don't think they mind those some AC you already got previously to the warning. It is only little amount looking from the big picture in their company.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

I'm personally still waiting on this refund, but it's incredibly strange how they are refunding AC purchases that were made before the ToS change.

Yeah, they should have had their asses covered from the very beginning and not changed it in the first place (from alpha that is)...

[The Walrus]

Got refunded couple days ago. Thought I was the only one till I saw this.

I'm not alone anymore :D

[Sidney]

Anyone had August purchases refunded? Or do you think those will come at a later date? (Or perhaps we won't be charged for those at all? August transactions still haven't appeared on my card.)

[TetsuyaHikari]

it's very indicative of a ban heading our way. Especially considering they've essentially given people free in-game content if they refund AFTER the AC has been spent.

I disagree. I think it was just their way of saying:

"You got a free ride and now it's over"

So if we want to buy any more AC in the future, we will have to use Webmoney to insure that they actually get their money this time.

[AnnabellaRenee87]

As of this morning I got my two AC purchases back, guess I'll have to use web money now.

[SPOnion]

I did not get it back. I get it posted to my card after around 1 month.

[Mystil]

Completely didn't realise I had a reply..

There's not really a mystery per-se, but it's very indicative of a ban heading our way. Especially considering they've essentially given people free in-game content if they refund AFTER the AC has been spent.


Not really. Sakai said it himself that they wont accept foreign cards. It doesn't imply they are setting up for a region ban. I personally think we're ok as far as staying on the JP servers are concerned.

[Feggge]

Yeah just tried my Visa. Wouldn't work! Is buying with Web Money difficult? As I understand it there is both the japanese Web Money and an unrelated American Company under the same name no?

[DemonMike]

It's not difficult, it just takes a massive mark up.

Looking forward to being able to buy WM next week with no mark up myself =3

[Chik'Tikka]

It's not difficult, it just takes a massive mark up.

Looking forward to being able to buy WM next week with no mark up myself =3

???? explain "no markup" please+^_^+

[FOnewearl-Lina]

???? explain "no markup" please+^_^+

Probably bought a bunch of webmoney cards from Amiami.

[Enforcer MKV]

???? explain "no markup" please+^_^+

He mentioned that he'll be playing from Japan next week. So he'll be able to buy AC normally.

[DemonMike]

Welp, sorry to bump the thread but looks like I got refunded today! A nice £81 came flooding into my bank and I'm sitting here in my new apartment in humid-as-fuck Sapporo thinking "Well, what now?".

But yeah, Enforcer MKV was right and as said, I do live in Japan. I would offer it, but I don't think that'll be very well received here plus I don't want to go setting a precedent by opening the flood gates of scammers that'll inevitably follow.

[TaigaUC]

I bought 500 AC a month or so ago and it never got deducted from my account.

[kkow]

funny thing is, the charge of 3000AC went through, but after their announcement of banning foreign transactions, my 5x500 AC was refunded. going to call my bank to see if it is simply a case of duplicate transactions being blocked.

has anyone been able to purchase AC since? or is soj simply refusing money....

[Sizustar]

funny thing is, the charge of 3000AC went through, but after their announcement of banning foreign transactions, my 5x500 AC was refunded. going to call my bank to see if it is simply a case of duplicate transactions being blocked.

has anyone been able to purchase AC since? or is soj simply refusing money....

For Foreigner, Webmoney, or having a JCB card seems to be the best option currently

[Inazuma]

For Foreigner, Webmoney, or having a JCB card seems to be the best option currently

I doubt many foreigners have Japanese credit cards. American Express would be their best bet.

[gigawuts]

Well I'll be trying an amex prepaid card myself tonight. Worst case scenario I just threw out five bucks. I may even keep it, I rather like the idea of a proxy card.

[Sizustar]

I doubt many foreigners have Japanese credit cards. American Express would be their best bet.

US resident of 9 state can apply for a JCB Card
http://www.jcbusa.com/card_how2apply.html

[Inazuma]

US resident of 9 state can apply for a JCB Card
http://www.jcbusa.com/card_how2apply.html

Oh cool. I never knew about this. Have you successfully used one of these to buy AC before?

[HFlowen]

I ended up getting my AC purchase money back. Kinda bummed about that though, I was quite happy to support the developers for this game. Might use the refunded money to get the box edition or something.

[serenade]

I ended up getting my AC purchase money back. Kinda bummed about that though, I was quite happy to support the developers for this game. Might use the refunded money to get the box edition or something.

i felt bad myself, so i ended up buying the same amount of ac with my new amex card so sega gets it back.