So, why the hate on the RNG system?

[Kimil Adrayne]

I mean, it's not like RNG wasn't used in PSO or PSU.

In PSO:
How long did it take to spawn a rare monster and get its rare drop?
How many people got a legit Psycho Wand?
How about the rare weapon titles on ??? WEAPON's ?

In PSU:
Rare drops, like the predecessor
The terrible grind fail = break system

What is it about the PSO2 RNG set up that's so much worse than the last two installments?

[BIG OLAF]

What is it about the PSO2 RNG set up that's so much worse than the last two installments?

The fact that it exists.

[Aremt]

I have no idea.

I'm not a complainer like everyone else. :C

[Zyrusticae]

The problem is that the percentage chance of failure is much higher than it ever was in previous installments.

You'll get things like 100x grind fail streaks (seriously, THIS IS A THING THAT HAPPENS) because of how utterly terrible the RNG system in PSO2 is. If the system were properly programmed to recognize and avoid streaks, this wouldn't be so much of an issue.

[gigawuts]

The fact that so much depends on one single roll.

Rare monsters were 1/256, or 1/512 in ultimate, and you could have over a thousand chances in a day if you played enough. Here? One roll determines success or failure. Failure very likely means winding up worse than you started, and it's costly to even get to the point where you can attempt it in the first place.

The affix and grind system absolutely do not compare to random drops or rare monsters.

[Slidikins]

I'm not one of the complainers but I think the main complaint is that the game says something has a 80% chance of success but in practice it really has about 15% chance.

[CelestialBlade]

I think what bothers me is how simply it could be fixed with another line or two of code, to avoid good or bad streaks instead of getting as close to "truly random" as code can.

[TetsuyaHikari]

Between failing 75%+ affix transfers, succeeding on 20%, and not getting the rare drop from an enemy after killing them for weeks, I'd say the hate behind RNG is justified.

[gigawuts]

Oh yeah, and getting a losing streak and not finding a rare for an unusually long amount of time doesn't remove from your current equipment.

The grind system in PSU was awful and anyone that actually liked it had no idea what a good system should look like (for example I don't know maybe one that doesn't punish you for something completely out of your power).

[valmont]

yeah, i think it should be easier to grind or putting affixes to weapon..
so i could focusing on my low lv classes sooner..

[jooozek]

Goddamn affixing system, nothing else really, rares are uber shitty in this game so far so I couldn't care less about them.

[Slidikins]

yeah, i think it should be easier to grind or putting affixes to weapon..
so i could focusing on my low lv classes sooner..

I'm still on the fence of what I preferred more between:
Early PSO: You had to find the rare you wanted with good photons (e.g. Hit %)
Early PSO2: You have to just find the rare, then you can risk adding the goodies you want onto it at the cost of a lot of money...

[Macman]

Early PSO2: You have to just find the rare, then you can risk adding the goodies you want onto it at the cost of a lot of money...
Unless you found it without an element. :-?

[Heat Haze]

Well, you tell me. Anything wrong with these screenshots pertaining to RNG?

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i46.tinypic.com/mlijb.png
http://i50.tinypic.com/20iifrp.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

I'd say the hate is justified.

[Cry0]

I think the normal grinding system is ok, the element grinding is broken though. You should not need the same weapon for that. For abilities I somewhat understand it but you shouldn't lose so much and having to need the same amount is also weird and inconvenient.

That said, I must say that the grinding has been generous to me. I've also been finding a decent amount of rares, just... never anything useful.
A good tip is to not grind past 7 on 7*+ weapons. It's just not worth the headache.

[Lyric]

Finding rares was a heavy grind on the original Phantasy Star Online. I don't think many people have a problem with that. I mean, they're 'rare' for a reason.

Most of the anger comes from the RNG when it's involved with upgrading weaponry and armor. When something has an "75%" chance of success, I expect it to have reasonable odds. Hell, even 50%. But Doo Doo just takes my money and gives nothing in return.

Seems like it could possibly keep the economy in check, somehow? But it's so harsh.

[Tanarin]

I think the big problem is people are treating this like a Subscription based game, when in fact it is a microtransaction F2P game. If you go go most other games, you find the chances of success to be similar if not worse than they are in PSO2. As long as people can remember this is F2P and that it is gonna do everything in it's power to make you SPEND CASH, then I think the hate would go down.

[Enforcer MKV]

I think the main problem is that the percentages that they give you often times feel like a straight out lie, given the actual success rates people are having - or aren't, as the case seems to be.

I'll speak for the grinding system, though; Doodoo doesn't make me want to straight out quit the game, but I swear I'm spending too much cash trying to get my Ridultiv to +10. Those -2s sting. A lot.

[iTz PooKiie xx]

i hate the affix system and　ドゥドゥ i wish he was replaced by a loli or something. ;3
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=29441354

[Coatl]

I think the main problem is that the percentages that they give you often times feel like a straight out lie, given the actual success rates people are having - or aren't, as the case seems to be.

I'll speak for the grinding system, though; Doodoo doesn't make me want to straight out quit the game, but I swear I'm spending too much cash trying to get my Ridultiv to +10. Those -2s sting. A lot.

What I do is, I close my eyes and just click the grind button for a good five minutes. If it's not +10 by then, fuck it.

I only recommend this if you have enough meseta/grinders to burn in five minutes though.
As for the RNG, I think the only real issue people have comes from their experience with affixes.
The grind system isn't all that bad honestly.

[Silver Crow]

grind system is fine i guess i just hate that bloody mess of an affix system. i've failed more 70%'s than 50% or under. it just feels too damn weird. pure coincidence? maybe but from what i've heard from people its starting to look like a trend...

[TaigaUC]

What is it about the PSO2 RNG set up that's so much worse than the last two installments?

It's not about whether it was in previous games or whether it's worse. Random number generated systems are bad game design, full stop.
- There's no control involved on the part of the player.
- No skill or challenge involved, and thus no real satisfaction.
- They constantly punish and frustrate the player for no reason.
- They are not fun unless you enjoy gambling (and losing a lot).
- All the time spent saving in-game currency goes down the drain with zero return (or you go backwards).
- It's an artificial way of extending gameplay time/content, ie. the devs are lazy.
- Some people will be vastly richer than everyone else just because they got lucky.
- Etc, etc.

If anyone made a game with the entire gameplay using this same random mechanic, nobody (sane) would play it. People only deal with it now because it's a complementary system to the main game and is required for character progression.

People accept these kinds of systems because they aren't given any alternatives, and they're always justifying it in terms of "it could be worse" or "it was always like this" instead of thinking "it could be done better" or "it doesn't have to be this way". They can't imagine how it could be done better because most games copy each other and use the same stupid systems. There are plenty of other ways these things could be done, but nobody is even trying to innovate because people just accept things as they are. This actually applies to a lot of things in life.

[sexyslut]

It's not about whether it was in previous games or whether it's worse. Random number generated systems are bad game design, full stop.
- There's no control involved on the part of the player.
- No skill or challenge involved, and thus no real satisfaction.
- They constantly punish and frustrate the player for no reason.
- They are not fun unless you enjoy gambling (and losing a lot).
- All the time spent saving in-game currency goes down the drain with zero return (or you go backwards).
- It's an artificial way of extending gameplay time/content, ie. the devs are lazy.
- Some people will be vastly richer than everyone else just because they got lucky.
- Etc, etc.

If anyone made a game with the entire gameplay using this same random mechanic, nobody (sane) would play it. People only deal with it now because it's a complementary system to the main game and is required for character progression.

People accept these kinds of systems because they aren't given any alternatives, and they're always justifying it in terms of "it could be worse" or "it was always like this" instead of thinking "it could be done better" or "it doesn't have to be this way". They can't imagine how it could be done better because most games copy each other and use the same stupid systems. There are plenty of other ways these things could be done, but nobody is even trying to innovate because people just accept things as they are. This actually applies to a lot of things in life.

Not only that but if you are one of the lucky ones everyone will h8 u cause of your luck. :/ So really there is absolutely no point to RNG

[BIG OLAF]

It's not about whether it was in previous games or whether it's worse. Random number generated systems are bad game design, full stop.
- There's no control involved on the part of the player.
- No skill or challenge involved, and thus no real satisfaction.
- They constantly punish and frustrate the player for no reason.
- They are not fun unless you enjoy gambling (and losing a lot).
- All the time spent saving in-game currency goes down the drain with zero return (or you go backwards).
- It's an artificial way of extending gameplay time/content, ie. the devs are lazy.
- Some people will be vastly richer than everyone else just because they got lucky.
- Etc, etc.

This guy here just knocked it out of the park so hard that his bat exploded into sawdust.

[Dan Maku]

>thought RNG meant Rangers
>wonders why hated
>looks up RNG
>relief

[gigawuts]

It's not about whether it was in previous games or whether it's worse. Random number generated systems are bad game design, full stop.
- There's no control involved on the part of the player.
- No skill or challenge involved, and thus no real satisfaction.
- They constantly punish and frustrate the player for no reason.
- They are not fun unless you enjoy gambling (and losing a lot).
- All the time spent saving in-game currency goes down the drain with zero return (or you go backwards).
- It's an artificial way of extending gameplay time/content, ie. the devs are lazy.
- Some people will be vastly richer than everyone else just because they got lucky.
- Etc, etc.

If anyone made a game with the entire gameplay using this same random mechanic, nobody (sane) would play it. People only deal with it now because it's a complementary system to the main game and is required for character progression.

People accept these kinds of systems because they aren't given any alternatives, and they're always justifying it in terms of "it could be worse" or "it was always like this" instead of thinking "it could be done better" or "it doesn't have to be this way". They can't imagine how it could be done better because most games copy each other and use the same stupid systems. There are plenty of other ways these things could be done, but nobody is even trying to innovate because people just accept things as they are. This actually applies to a lot of things in life.

Well put. You should save this as a txt file for the next time this thread comes up, because at least once every three weeks somebody tries to claim RNG is the only possible way to make anything happen anywhere.

[Valkyrie Lovrina]

It's not about whether it was in previous games or whether it's worse. Random number generated systems are bad game design, full stop.
- There's no control involved on the part of the player.
- No skill or challenge involved, and thus no real satisfaction.
- They constantly punish and frustrate the player for no reason.
- They are not fun unless you enjoy gambling (and losing a lot).
- All the time spent saving in-game currency goes down the drain with zero return (or you go backwards).
- It's an artificial way of extending gameplay time/content, ie. the devs are lazy.
- Some people will be vastly richer than everyone else just because they got lucky.
- Etc, etc.

If anyone made a game with the entire gameplay using this same random mechanic, nobody (sane) would play it. People only deal with it now because it's a complementary system to the main game and is required for character progression.

People accept these kinds of systems because they aren't given any alternatives, and they're always justifying it in terms of "it could be worse" or "it was always like this" instead of thinking "it could be done better" or "it doesn't have to be this way". They can't imagine how it could be done better because most games copy each other and use the same stupid systems. There are plenty of other ways these things could be done, but nobody is even trying to innovate because people just accept things as they are. This actually applies to a lot of things in life.This!!! This!!! 1000 times This!!! there is a whole lot of truth right there.

[Xaeris]

It's not about whether it was in previous games or whether it's worse. Random number generated systems are bad game design, full stop.
- There's no control involved on the part of the player.
- No skill or challenge involved, and thus no real satisfaction.
- They constantly punish and frustrate the player for no reason.
- They are not fun unless you enjoy gambling (and losing a lot).
- All the time spent saving in-game currency goes down the drain with zero return (or you go backwards).
- It's an artificial way of extending gameplay time/content, ie. the devs are lazy.
- Some people will be vastly richer than everyone else just because they got lucky.
- Etc, etc.

If anyone made a game with the entire gameplay using this same random mechanic, nobody (sane) would play it. People only deal with it now because it's a complementary system to the main game and is required for character progression.

People accept these kinds of systems because they aren't given any alternatives, and they're always justifying it in terms of "it could be worse" or "it was always like this" instead of thinking "it could be done better" or "it doesn't have to be this way". They can't imagine how it could be done better because most games copy each other and use the same stupid systems. There are plenty of other ways these things could be done, but nobody is even trying to innovate because people just accept things as they are. This actually applies to a lot of things in life.

Very well put. Now, I suggest you find a cushion or some other kind of soft object to place on your desk for when you inevitably smash your head into it after someone deliberately misinterprets what you said as "entitlement."

[FlameOfYagami]

Stop your crying already. If you get lucky then you get lucky. This board is crawlling with people complaining everday! Maybe this game just isn't for you ^^;

Try one of the other countless MMO's that are out there for pc and stop your crying already ^^

[BIG OLAF]

Stop your crying already. If you get lucky then you get lucky. This board is crawlling with people complaining everday! Maybe this game just isn't for you ^^;

Try one of the other countless MMO's that are out there for pc and stop your crying already ^^

You're not very good at this "having civilized conversation with other people" stuff, are you?

[Slidikins]

If anyone made a game with the entire gameplay using this same random mechanic, nobody (sane) would play it.Slot machines would like to have a word with you.

[Coatl]

I'd like to see some alternatives people have in mind then.
They can't simply "make it easier."

[gigawuts]

You're not very good at this "having civilized conversation with other people" stuff, are you?

You should see him in the wind thread. It seems that I'm immature because I'm asking him to use proper testing methods, but then not disproving him.

[FlameOfYagami]

You're not very good at this "having civilized conversation with other people" stuff, are you?

I am, but it's annoying when people complain so much about the game. I'm not saying the TC of this topic is complaining, but a bunch of people in here are. Plus I see threads complaining about the game on a daily basis now.

Most of them should go in the rants section of the forum and not in general discussion ^^;

When I see much crying in game and in the forum it makes me a little frustraded. It makes me say "Then jeez if you are sooo unhappy with this game go play another game!"

That's pretty fair IMO.

[Dextro]

So....what would be the alternative for determining drops and success rates if not ultimately a RNG?

[gigawuts]

I'd like to see some alternatives people have in mind then.
They can't simply "make it easier."

I post alternatives all the time.

Some examples off the top of my head:

Losing an affix does not remove that slot, but instead leaves it empty (a new feature lets you forcibly remove slots).
Losing an affix does not fully remove that slot, but merely downgrades the bonus a level (a failed level 1 affix or soul becomes an affix named "Empty" with no bonus)
Failing a grind does not reduce your weapon's performance, but you still need to overcome that reduction to actually increase the grind above that level again
All success/failure multiplies are inverted and applied to the affix cost (80% success -> 1/.8 -> 1.25 -> multiply cost to affix by 1.25). Drop rates are modified accordingly so as to not flood the market with the items that are suddenly not being wasted.


That's just what I came up with in five minutes, and all of it is a drastic improvement on the current system.

[FlameOfYagami]

You should see him in the wind thread. It seems that I'm immature because I'm asking him to use proper testing methods, but then not disproving him.

Please don't bring your drama from another thread onto this one. That's very rude and I do not wish to derail this topic with issues from another thread that has nothing to do with this one.

[Coatl]

So....what would be the alternative for determining drops and success rates if not ultimately a RNG?

I guess the simplest thing to do is just raise the prices to grind/affix.
Like maybe paying 200k to get something to +10.



I post alternatives all the time.

Some examples off the top of my head:

Losing an affix does not remove that slot, but instead leaves it empty (a new feature lets you forcibly remove slots).
Losing an affix does not fully remove that slot, but merely downgrades the bonus a level (a failed level 1 affix or soul becomes an affix named "Empty" with no bonus)
Failing a grind does not reduce your weapon's performance, but you still need to overcome that reduction to actually increase the grind above that level again
All success/failure multiplies are inverted and applied to the affix cost (80% success -> 1/.8 -> 1.25 -> multiply cost to affix by 1.25). Drop rates are modified accordingly so as to not flood the market with the items that are suddenly not being wasted.


That's just what I came up with in five minutes, and all of it is a drastic improvement on the current system.


I see a lot of mercy play.
If people are getting affixes made easier for them, I want to know what's the catch.

[gigawuts]

Ha ha ha, just 200k? Oh man sign me up!

[iTz PooKiie xx]

So....what would be the alternative for determining drops and success rates if not ultimately a RNG?

じゃんけんぽん best 2 out of 3 against ドゥドゥ

[Coatl]

200k is so very relative..
It was just a random number I pulled out.

Giga I do appreciate you posting your suggestions though. Hopefully the affix system will be a topic in the surveys we'll be expecting in the near future.

[gigawuts]

I guess the simplest thing to do is just raise the prices to grind/affix.
Like maybe paying 200k to get something to +10.





I see a lot of mercy play.
If people are getting affixes made easier for them, I want to know what's the catch.

All but the last suggestion didn't even remove the RNG, so don't really count I guess. They're just a very easy improvement to the current system to make losing streaks far less punishing.

The last suggestion does remove the RNG, though. There's no "easier," just "real price." If it has an 80% success rate, that means the average price just goes up by 25%. So just turn it into exactly that.

I laughed at the 200k because I've spent in excess of 2.5 million meseta grinding multiple 8* weapons without even one of them hitting +10.

[Skyly HUmar]

So....what would be the alternative for determining drops and success rates if not ultimately a RNG?

For one they could make grinding loike PSO1, hell, even the PSPs had a pretty good grinding system. It got expensive as all bloody hell to grind the higer things in the game, and the price went up with each grind.

BUT:

1) You never wasted your resources
2) You never ended up worse than when you started
3) You never wasted your time gathering the resources you needed to grind
4) And you never failed 2 70% chance abilities at the same time 7 times in a row.... nm, scratch that last one, that just happened to me earlier .-.

Making the rare weps rarer and at least making the grinding sistem somewhat more in our favor would be a very nice way to balance it out and lessesn the hate on it a little.

[sexyslut]

OR we could all just grind to + 8 cause we know the last two levels don't really do much anyways >.>

Theres your 200K grind system 4u

[Laxedrane]

Slot machines would like to have a word with you.

I was thinking the same thing.

FFXI had a very brief moment where they got a drop system right. Where the player could drastically increase drop rates by using special skills in a timed manner. Unfortunately at the same time they released what is known by people who play called "God mode."

Anywho, a mini-game, or just fucking doing emote Simon says with fucking doodoo is better then whats going on.

[gigawuts]

If you've never been stuck at +4-+5 for 11 grinds you are luckier than I.

[Slidikins]

I'd like to see some alternatives people have in mind then. They can't simply "make it easier."

I don't have too many issues with the current system, possibly because I'm used to this skinner-box gameplay from other games, but let's see...

Grinding:
- I don't see the problem with PSO's grind system. If you have grinders you should be able to grind it. In fact, let's go back to that. Take away the RNG completely here and make grinders harder to find. Add in Digrinders and Trigrinders and have a system like so:
- Grinding +1 to +5 requires Monogrinders & fee
- Grinding +6 to +8 requires Digrinders & fee
- Grinding +9 to +10 requires Trigrinders & fee
- (Or base the Grinder required on the rarity of the item, or some mix of type/amount/fee to balance that out)
- No fail chance, just find the grinder you need. Adding attribute photons has no fail chance, why does grinding?

Affixing:
- Keep the RNG, as this can really boost your character
- Affixes that already exist on the target item should have a much higher chance of remaining (if you choose it)
- If an ability fails its roll, automatically roll for the lower rank of the ability. If you fail to put Power III on the item, it will roll for Power II, then Power I, to give you something rather than nothing.
- Conversely, give a small chance of improving the rank of an ability if it rolls well.
- Create some sort of method to increase the rank of existing abilities without nuking the entire weapon in failure. Such as "Find two weapons of the same type with the ability you want to improve-same rank-and it will roll just that ability."

Those were ideas off the top of my head. They could be refined a lot more.

[Skyly HUmar]

If you've never been stuck at +4-+5 for 11 grinds you are luckier than I.

One time i had my gunslash (the new one on fc idk the name) at +9, it ended up at +2 after a good 200k of grinding and from that point failed 8 times in a row.

Dodo was getting his payback because i got poison 4 on that gs and it had no slots at the time. It was under a 20% chance so he had to somehow lol.

[Zekester]

Stop your crying already. If you get lucky then you get lucky. This board is crawlling with people complaining everday! Maybe this game just isn't for you ^^;

Try one of the other countless MMO's that are out there for pc and stop your crying already ^^

Go to Star Wars the Old Republic's Forum. This community is no where near as noisy with complainers as they are. God, I actually missed this forum when I played that MMO.

You couldn't start a new thread without someone bashing or criticizing you (not in a friendly manner).

But yes, to some extent, I'll agree we do have a small size of a compliant or two. Hell, even I'll complain because "I DooDoo on your weapon"

[Dextro]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the majority of people who hate the Grinding system do not have a MyShop. Without a MyShop you have no real way to break into the economy and keep up with high cost of grinding/affixing.

Yes, farming for 6hrs for a couple 100k and failing your attempts sucks. But what makes you angrier? the fact that you failed your attempt, or the fact that all that time farming meseta was basically pointless? (zero-returns)



- They are not fun unless you enjoy gambling (and losing a lot).
- All the time spent saving in-game currency goes down the drain with zero return
You can alleviate both of those problems by having a way to earn more meseta:
- You'd enjoy the gamble if you had an easy way to recover lost meseta.
- The time spent saving in-game currency with a MyShop is dramatically decreased.
- You can sell souls & remnants of items you no longer wish to affix on the auction house to make back your meseta, thus bypassing the 'zero return' phase.
- You can always attempt simple affixes to try and sell for profit (the people who make those fodder items you use for transfers on the shop are making a killing, you just don't know it yet)

What i'm getting at is that the current system seems more suited to those who purchase AC or Premium. Heck, there are even AC items to prevent the loss of progress when failing affixes.

Out of all the English players I've seen on my ship (I don't talk to the JP ones), only the ones who have Premium or a Shop are kitted out with Atk III/Soul equipment - not because their luck is better, but because their income allows it.

This system isn't exactly 'fair' since it benefits those willing to invest real money more than the free userbase. (The success rates are the same for everyone, of course, but the pain of failure is fivefold for those who have to farm for days to recover financially)

Regardless, the current system is the way it is in order to remove money from the economy, and it works. I'll only defend it to the extent of "it works" though, it's still a pretty stupid roundabout way to do it.

tl;dr: The Affix System seems biased towards premium users in that it's designed to be used as part of a buy/upgrade/sell system which free-users can't make the most of, leaving only frustration when they fail, aka. zero-returns on money investments.

[Aegea]

I'd like to see some alternatives people have in mind then.
They can't simply "make it easier."

Other MMOs and loot games have done this just fine only they call it socketing and enchanting. And they use a much less bullshit system.

For grinding, don't penalize for failing. You can keep the dice-roll, but there should be no reason for a weapon to become worse. TERA did that and even they realized it was stupid and patched it out. If you want to make grinding more expensive/harder to obtain, destroy a weapon along with grinders. Higher tier grinding requires higher tier weapons. So for those 7-9* "common" rares, they have another use now and aren't taking up space or sold to vendors (this is from TERA's enchanting system).

For affixing, I personally would have gone with the socket system where attributes are another drop like Diablo's gems and Aion's manastones, but if the current system has to be used don't nuke weapons completely. Hell, look at how many bitch at Aion's unfair socket system and I'd argue PSO2 is worse.

Players want some progress (no matter how little) and when you waste time/money/items and yet don't improve and even get worse, that's when you start losing the population.

[Monkeyx]

Regardless, the current system is the way it is in order to remove money from the economy, and it works. I'll only defend it to the extent of "it works" though, it's still a pretty stupid roundabout way to do it.

What makes you think that they put this system in there as a way to eliminate money from the economy? If they wanted to do that they would be better off creating a "Money making game" where all you do is place a set amount of money against another player in an rng contest and the winner gets 190% of what he bet. it's clearly rigged, but guess what: idiots will still do it!

On Topic:
The best way to alleviate the RNG issue with the grinding is to reset the values that they have in such a way that it takes into account the -1 and the previous grinding rates, so instead of failing and getting -1, you fail and lose nothing, but the rate of success would be higher and take into account the amount you would have payed if you did get a -1. same average cash spent overall, same average amount of grinders, but no negative failure state.

The main issue with this is that SEGA would no longer be able to sell their precious grind protects. so instead they will sell even more OP grind rate increase (20% or something ridiculous) and then it becomes Pay2Win again.

The other way to make paying fairer and let the economy ease a bit is to make trading free/cash with cap, or have a FUN AH that has a 3-7 day limit on it. this way a free player can enter their item in AH and if someone wants something immediately they have to pay the exorbitant rates of player shops, or they can wait a few days for their item. (Could also have maybe 5-10% tax on either end to take out money from economy)

EDIT: oh, and for gods sake, if you complain about pay2win/upgrade rates in an mmo: google flyff and then stop complaining LOL
also had another idea: instead of upgrading the weapon, upgrade the grinders; the higher the grinder level the more success chance, 2 level 1 grinders makes a grinder-2, 3 level 2 grinders makes a grinder-3, 4 level 3 grinders makes a grinder-4 etc. this doesnt eliminate the rng but it makes it a hell lot more managable, plus its effectively a consolidation of the grinding process:
"Oh, you spent 10 minutes grinding your item?"
"Yeah"
"I just grinded a few times with higher level grinders and was finished in a minute"

Let the rage commence
/begin rage

[gigawuts]

It removes more materials (grinders, units, weapons) from circulation than money.

And that's what I really think it's for. It's there to make My Shop as profitable as it is, acting as an artificial demand. It's not as close to RMT as AC scratch is, but it's up there.

[sexyslut]

DUDU donates his proceeds to kids with cancer in wheelchairs with one leg and facial burns if it makes you feel any better.

[NoiseHERO]

DUDU donates his proceeds to kids with cancer in wheelchairs with one leg and facial burns if it makes you feel any better.

That's probably how he lies to himself by justifying his sick and twisted villainy, but the truth is after some point he'd enjoy it even if it wasn't for a "good cause."

Or I've been watching too much Breaking Bad.

[SnipePSO]

To get back to the question the OP asked:

After ready so many posts I can understand where the hate is coming from.

My Opinion is:

Why would you be content with a less good working system if you had a working system which provides what it promises in previous released games? It's only human to strife for more and more.

However:

This game is Free to Play and a hell of fun. Many people spent already dozens of hours on it without paying a cent. So complaining over a lil' thing and getting angry on the game isn't right.

Besides, it's gonna get fixed eventually. You aren't the only people who will report that issue and SEGA will get wind of it and fix it. This games development is at the earliest stage with an open end.


So look forward to the content and the definition that'll come instead of whats wrong right now in that early stage.

[Coatl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN8DS5jkSK8&feature=player_embedded


Doo Doo's theme, for when he inevitably ends up being Dark Falz.

[Crysteon]

[PSO2] Doodoo's grinding service - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN8DS5jkSK8&feature=player_embedded)


Doo Doo's theme, for when he inevitably ends up being Dark Falz.

Dafuq did I just watch?

And suddenly....Dodo starts break dancing........ :no:

But...but,...we already know that Shion is Dark Falz!...so I guess Dodo will make a good boss if he mutates with the Darkers, using Meseta Fever against us and dealing 9999 damage per hit.

[WolfDreamer]

But...but,...we already know that Shion is Dark Falz!...so I guess Dodo will make a good boss if he mutates with the Darkers, using Meseta Fever against us and dealing 9999 damage per hit.

Dodo as a boss with Meseta Fever... that made me laugh out loud and cry in fear (lolcif?) at the same time *shivers*

[gigawuts]

Dafuq did I just watch?

And suddenly....Dodo starts break dancing........ :no:

But...but,...we already know that Shion is Dark Falz!...so I guess Dodo will make a good boss if he mutates with the Darkers, using Meseta Fever against us and dealing 9999 damage per hit.

No, Grinding Fever! The rarer your weapon, the more damage you take!