Something similar to Time attack mode should become the main way to play.

[Agitated_AT]

Now bear with me.

I have always liked the first Forest/Tundra Time attack mode since it not only reminded me of PSO1 with the way you're forced to engage enemies so barriers dissapear in order to progress, but it's just simply more fun than anything in the game, including the mindless MPA free field areas. The puzzle elements are the icing on the cake.

However since the new Desert/Mines Time attack has come out, I am defenitly sure this should become the main way to play the game. This mission is simply FANTASTIC. It's got all the unique features that make mines, mines. The moving floors and the traps, but it also uses them better than any other mission out there. What makes it all perfect is how you're forced to engage every enemy because of the barriers making even the most enoying enemies forced to be engaged. Fighting enemies on these moving floors surrounded with traps must be the most epic experience i've had so far in the game.

I think it is rreally weird how the Time attack mode is made and treaten like some sort of secondary thing in the game while personally I think it should be the MPA areas that should be the unique and more scarse game modes, basically what Time attack is now. Frankly the multi party areas arent just the most rewarding, but also the most boring. This is really bad game design in my opinion. The rewarding and payout in this game is really unbalanced and rewarding the most boring and easy way to play is really not how it should be.

What I would personally love is if they removed the timer, added the possibility to drop in and drop out and added the random feature to what is now the time attack mode and made the reward and payout better(after they nerf it for the MPA experience), this game would become 10x better.

The survey has been up ever since a few days, and if you agree I would love if someone could suggest it to become the main way to play and make MPA seperate like how the time attack mode is now. Please consider this if you agree.

[Angelo]

I've been dying to try Time Attack mode, it looks awesome, but I can never find a team.

Your post just makes me even more curious.

[Husq]

I agree, the time attack map are fun to play. You have a course, mini bosses and a final boss fight at the end. It feels like a proper/classic level layout.
I always offer my team to do time attack, as a way to level their character, especially those who are level 15+.
I do wish you can play it solo as well, because even in my team it is always hard to find someone to join.

[gigawuts]

Yeah I wish we could run them solo, or with 1 npc. How would it work with the buttons? I don't know put them on a timer or let you control the NPC, I don't care. I just like Time Attack mode but hate depending on other people. Opt-in co-op, fine, but literally needing someone to even start...meh.

[NoiseHERO]

I didn't read this thread...

All I saw was "like PSO1" and "Should be the main way to play" then cringed. D:

Honestly, I hate Time-Attack for not being Challenge mode.

[Neith]

It shouldn't be the main way to play. Using imagination in the level design is fine, but adding a timer to everything would make the game a lot worse in my opinion. We already have to TA the regular missions, the last thing I want is for them to become Time Attack missions.

I fully support a Time Attack mode for those who want to play that way but it certainly shouldn't become the standard. I will however agree that the current Arkz/free missions are very uninspired and need something to make them more interesting. This isn't it.

[Agitated_AT]

I've been dying to try Time Attack mode, it looks awesome, but I can never find a team.

Your post just makes me even more curious.

Yeah it's great. No darkers and alot of the strongest enemies spawn rapidly


I didn't read this thread...



Bear with it because if you do actually read you may find something similar to your suggestion.


It shouldn't be the main way to play. Using imagination in the level design is fine, but adding a timer to everything would make the game a lot worse in my opinion. We already have to TA the regular missions, the last thing I want is for them to become Time Attack missions.

I fully support a Time Attack mode for those who want to play that way but it certainly shouldn't become the standard. I will however agree that the current Arkz/free missions are very uninspired and need something to make them more interesting. This isn't it.

To you as well, read my post. Please don't reply before you read my post because if you did read, I mention slight adjustments, mainly removing the timer.

[Sp-24]

All I saw was "like PSO1" and "Should be the main way to play" then cringed. D:

Pretty much this, plus designdesigndesign. Randomised areas this game has get boring very quickly, sure, but there is something else that also gets boring very quickly: pre-generated maps that don't vary at all.

EDIT: To add, Codes: Collect and Elimination already feel like a chore in Volcano (but not in Sky Land, because I want those units), and being forced to repeat them every single time you run through the exact same map of this proposed main game mode is not going to enrich the game experience, I think.

[Agitated_AT]

Pretty much this, plus designdesigndesign. Randomised areas this game has get boring very quickly, sure, but there is something else that also gets boring very quickly: pre-generated maps that don't vary at all.

EDIT: To add, Codes: Collect and Elimination already feel like a chore in Volcano (but not in Sky Land, because I want those units), and being forced to repeat them every single time you run through the exact same map of this proposed main game mode is not going to enrich the game experience, I think.

Again, if you're not going to read the OP, don't reply at all. I mentioned the addition of random generated feature to them, removal of the timer and drop in drop out possibilitty added.

I am not saying that Time attack should literally become the main way to play, but anyway thanks for your meaningless partake in the thread.

[Alenoir]

It's interesting how they throw in about 10 to 15 different switches you can hit in Mines 2, but no, this really shouldn't be the main way of playing. Especially when you're forced to kill those stupid healer robots if you accidentally tripped on a trap. (At least on Nabelius you can skip some of the mobs. Not the case for Lilipa.)

[HFlowen]

The time attack missions feel so much better to play because they're thought out around the specific path the player has to take. The person designing the level can make well thought out scenarios and enemy placement to create a challenging and memorable experience because the player is always approaching it in the same way. This can become stale after a while though in its own way.

Every other mission in the game uses those psuedo random maps and enemy spawns to create an inconsistent and boring experience that has splashes of cool bits depending on how many codes it throws at you at once.

The real key difference? One actually requires the developers to do work.

They're both good and bad for different reasons, but I'd sure as heck like to see more time attack or similar missions to balance it out.

[Sp-24]

Oh, yeah:


Now bear with me.

I have always liked the first Forest/Tundra Time attack mode since it not only reminded me of PSO1 with the way you're forced to engage enemies so barriers dissapear to progress, but it's just simply more fun than anything in the game, including the mindless MPA free field areas. The puzzle elements are the icing on the cake.

However since the new Desert/Mines Time attack has come out, I am defenitly sure this should become the main way to play the game. This mission is simply FANTASTIC. It's got all the unique features that make mines, mines. The moving floors and the traps, but it also uses them better than any other mission out there. What makes it all perfect is how you're forced to engage every enemy because of the barriers making even the most enoying enemies forced to be engaged. Fighting enemies on these moving floors surrounded with traps must be the most epic experience i've had so far in the game.

I think it is rreally weird how the Time attack mode is made and treaten like some sort of secondary thing in the game while personally I think it should be the MPA areas that should be the unique and more scarse game modes, basically what Time attack is now. Frankly the multi party areas arent just the most rewarding, but also the most boring. This is really bad game design in my opinion. The rewarding and payout in this game is really unbalanced and rewarding the most boring and easy way to play is really not how it should be.

What I would personally love is if they removed the timer, added the possibility to drop in and drop out and added the random feature to what is now the time attack mode and made the reward and payout better(after they nerf it for the MPA experience), this game would become 10x better.

The survey has been up ever since a few days, and if you agree I would love if someone could suggest it to become the main way to play and make MPA seperate like how the time attack mode is now. Please consider this if you agree.

The mysterious "random feature". How could people possibly not get that you are proposing to randomise what is essentially a hard-coded obstacle course with those two words, when every other paragraph can be summed up as "Time attack mode should become the main way to play", which, coincidentally, is also this thread's title?

Anyway, I was saying:


Randomised areas this game has get boring very quickly, sure, but there is something else that also gets boring very quickly: pre-generated maps that don't vary at all.

EDIT: To add, Codes: Collect and Elimination already feel like a chore in Volcano (but not in Sky Land, because I want those units), and being forced to repeat them every single time you run through the exact same map of this proposed main game mode is not going to enrich the game experience, I think.

[Chik'Tikka]

didn't even know people played that mode, every time i try to join a party, no parties playing, and when i try to do one myself, it just puts me back into campship saying i failed+^_^+

[Agitated_AT]

It's interesting how they throw in about 10 to 15 different switches you can hit in Mines 2, but no, this really shouldn't be the main way of playing. Especially when you're forced to kill those stupid healer robots if you accidentally tripped on a trap. (At least on Nabelius you can skip some of the mobs. Not the case for Lilipa.)

Just wow


Oh, yeah:



The mysterious "random feature". How could people possibly not get that you are proposing to randomise what is essentially a hard-coded obstacle course with those two words, when every other paragraph can be summed up as "Time attack mode should become the main way to play", which, coincidentally, is also this thread's title?

Anyway, I was saying:

Dude that's why the time attack mode that is there should stay, and this other thing i'm describing should become the main thing. You are missunderstanding (or i'm just not clear enough, I apologies if that's the case)
This whole thing i'm describing as main content should come as new and not as a replacement, and take over a new section of the missions as main content above the bland free field content(with good rewards for good incentive). I don't know if you ever realised this, but visit any free field and look for the gimmicks found in the regular missions. The moving wheel floors are not in the free mines. The forest waterfalls are not in the free field forest. The whole mechenical layout in the desert missions are absent in the free desert. The area layouts are all the same for every free field which makes them all feel samey apart from the enemies, bosses and aesthetics.


didn't even know people played that mode, every time i try to join a party, no parties playing, and when i try to do one myself, it just puts me back into campship saying i failed+^_^+

It's because there is no drop in drop out feature so you have to recruit a party at the start. Joining an ongoing Time attack party isn't possible, hence my suggestions. I only use Time attack as a reference for this new mode that plays similar to it with slight adjustments.

[Flame]

Designed levels? Traps that actually penalize you? Puzzles???? What are these strange concepts. This game is about killing everything as fast as possible while looking like a bitching anime character and don't you forget it.

[Husq]

I would love to see a new version of the challenge mode.
What is really fun about current TA is, to play it at the minimum level requirement and with block standard gear. It feels rewarding surviving the course, even if it means it took over an hour to finish. unfortunately you do level up and that means you cannot keep doing this for a long time.

However at the moment TA feels a bit broken I mean a party made up of level 20-35 cahracters against a mop of level 35 enemies is ok, but pack of level 40 character going against a bunch of defenseless level 35 mops is bananas.

BTW, if anyone wants to try the TA mode, and cannot find other players, give us a shout.

[Coatl]

Hey AT, I read your OP and I have to say I completely agree. The time attacks are just FUUUUUNNN. They are so cleverly planned out and full of neat surprises at every turn. The question is, how surprising and enticing will it be the 3rd time around? I think that was the idea with MPs. They didn't want it to be static because it, arguably, adds variety. So yeah, while the TAs are fun, I can see them getting boring after trying to do them the 5th time around.



It's interesting how they throw in about 10 to 15 different switches you can hit in Mines 2, but no, this really shouldn't be the main way of playing. Especially when you're forced to kill those stupid healer robots if you accidentally tripped on a trap. (At least on Nabelius you can skip some of the mobs. Not the case for Lilipa.)

e.e

[Agitated_AT]

Hey AT, I read your OP and I have to say I completely agree. The time attacks are just FUUUUUNNN. They are so cleverly planned out and full of neat surprises at every turn. The question is, how surprising and enticing will it be the 3rd time around? I think that was the idea with MPs. They didn't want it to be static because it, arguably, adds variety. So yeah, while the TAs are fun, I can see them getting boring after trying to do them the 5th time around.




e.e
Hey thanks for your response. So what if they managed to implement a simple random nature similar to PSO1, would that make it better?(different starting point, switches, mobs and traps placed differently etc)

Personally I reallly think someone needs to suggest this in the survey. The game really lacks any content with depth and substance. It just feels too mindless atm

Also flame, we really need to team up sometime man

[Arika]

If there are any good rare to drop exclusively from TA mission, then people would do it a lot. I m sure that the only problem that most people not do this mission is because the reward isn't near what they could gain from MPA at all.

So yes, I would agree that mission with more complex like this should be the main game, but to make that happen, they need to put worthy reward in it first. Which is why I always want them to rebalance reward from the mindless Musou （無双） MPA thing. So people will start open their eyes to do something else.

[Hrith]

This idea relates to the idea that MPAs should disappear. It seems to be a consensus.

[gigawuts]

I'm not really going to say they should remove X or Y, but adding options is rarely a bad move. PSO1-style takes on existing maps would be absolutely, positively welcome.

Even people who wouldn't play it can't reasonably argue against it, because players who will stick to that level type may have lost interest otherwise and will certainly help shift goods on the markets.

[NoiseHERO]

lar to your suggestion.

Continuing from where I left off with NOT READING.

I like Challenge mode as a SIDE part of the game.

[Agitated_AT]

ChallEnge mode would be "too" secondary. I like the concept of 12 players being able to team up together in a multiparty area, but I feel that they should become more unique and scarser. The MPA are part of the primary experience right now, and I just feel that it results in more wrong than right. Not only that, but I also feel that it's not well enough executed at the moment.

Seperate time attack and challenge mode from this idea. The primary content should be similar to what time artack mode is(similar to PSO1 if you will). Tbh it's hard for me to understand how you cant agree with this if you ever done the tim attack. The desert/mines one surpasses any PSO expeOrience I hav ever had. I feel terrible for those who are oblivious of this mode because of how hard it is to gather a team. Its understandae that your not able to join a team because of the time attack nature. I say keep t this way and have something like it but better as the primary gameplay. Have MPA more unique and seperate, balance out the rewards well so every mode has a good attraction, and you will have the best PSO eve imo. This is all just my opinion however but ai just feel the game is a mess right now.

@arika
I think it would be a good idea if they made the special wep drop random(so not specific like all other missions), the drop rate better yet still hard to get the higher star weps. Of course depending on the missions lvl similar to pso1. This would work well i think

[Silver Crow]

Even though i started a thread about mpa's being boring i actually think they can be enjoyable if a team assembles one and aims for multiple cross bursts. I mean there are 6 different elements to a burst so potentially you can cross burst 5 times that means an INSANE amount of spawns which should keep the burst going even more and an increased drop rate, meseta amount etc. Just the way we do MPA's now is boring.

Time attack should stay as it is... a team only challenge/fun mode imo. I tried it and it was fun but i didn't get much out of it so nah.

[Mystil]

MPA does not need to be scarcer.. If there is one perk to MPA, its that it allows for a greater chance to play with others..thus being able to actually play the game. You can argue that people joining as solo party isn't the same thing..but the fact is you're still roaming with others.

My thoughts on that is MPA remains the way it is, and I still stand firmly by that. There is nothing wrong with incorporating your idea on time attacks. But only on time attack missions..

Go ahead, fire away...

[Agitated_AT]

Fire away? All I can say is that your take is very simple minded. You are taking very little in consideration, especially the aspects that suffer because of it.(some things mainly because of bad execution). Think about it, every little creatvity/variety has to suffer for making way of this feature because they wouldnt work well(time attack puzzle elements, barriers, switches etc), and as a result the only thing that remains is a mindless back and forth going run of killing respawning enemies.

The way you're point comes across is like you're saying, finding a party in this game is difficult and easier because of the MPAs. Isn't this a flaw in itself? Actually people are bound to end up doing this if they want to gain the most rewards so you're gonna find them anyway. Boring silly runs with people asking themselves what the heck they are doing.

[Darki]

People should stop saying how other people should play.

[Mystil]

Fire away? All I can say is that your take is very simple minded. You are taking very little in consideration, especially the aspects that suffer because of it.(some things mainly because of bad execution). Think about it, every little creatvity/variety has to suffer for making way of this feature because they wouldnt work well(time attack puzzle elements, barriers, switches etc), and as a result the only thing that remains is a mindless back and forth going run of killing respawning enemies.
~_~..If I'm understanding this right, you don't wont a compromise. It's MPA out and your idea in.

I don't find them boring.. They can be pretty exciting too, even without seeing a burst for hours. Yeah I guess I like mindless killing. I'm simple minded in that I don't go to great lengths to figure out how to make my experience fun. I certainly don't look for anything bad about the game to gripe about and thus deteriorating my desire to play. But that doesn't mean I wont try out something different. But there is a reason I don't/can't do the TAs now. I don't share your negative views on the game. I've weighed both good and bad, and frankly to me, the good outweighs the bad.


The way you're point comes across is like you're saying, finding a party in this game is difficult

If MPA did not exist, yes, it would be..


People should stop saying how other people should play.
Yhis is what a lot you have been doing on this board. Shoving your views down peoples throat and wanting them to play the game the way YOU want to play it. If all that stuff was implemented, I would stop playing.

[Agitated_AT]

No actually, I am not. If you understand the basics of balance, then you should know it's supposed to cater to everyone instead of only 1 group.

As i've said, MPA free fields are the most rewarding right now

[Ezodagrom]

@Agitated_AT: People play in MPAs not only because they're the most rewarding, but also because they're pick and play friendly.
Now I don't agree that single party should become the main way of playing, I think that multi party, single party and time attack should all have their own rewards.

There needs to be more single party missions though, missions that feel more like complete missions for single parties, unlike the short tutorial like single party missions that are already available (1st and 2nd forest mission, and the 1st mission for each one of the other areas).

I was thinking, right now photon drops, photon crystals and photon spheres have no use, but they will have a use eventually. When they get a use, maybe time attack should award photon spheres, if there ends up being proper single party missions, those should award photon crystals, and multi party missions should award photon drops?

[Agitated_AT]

@Agitated_AT: People play in MPAs not only because they're the most rewarding, but also because they're pick and play friendly.
Now I don't agree that single party should become the main way of playing, I think that multi party, single party and time attack should all have their own rewards.

There needs to be more single party missions though, missions that feel more like complete missions for single parties, unlike the short tutorial like single party missions that are already available (1st and 2nd forest mission, and the 1st mission for each one of the other areas).

I was thinking, right now photon drops, photon crystals and photon spheres have no use, but they will have a use eventually. When they get a use, maybe time attack should award photon spheres, if there ends up being proper single party missions, those should award photon crystals, and multi party missions should award photon drops?

Ah, you make so much sense ezo. Yes I guess i've been coming off sort of undermining towards the MPA, but really I didn't mean it that way. I say keep the missions and free fields all bound together the way they are (maybe polish up the free fields to get their unique features from the missions because a mines without moving floors is really just a plain mechenical area). But just like the emergency missions and time attack missiosn have their own section, single party missions should have their place as well.

When I say making them the main attraction, I mean it in the sense of that they should be the first thing you do and then MPA should be the unlockable as a result. I don't know but it just makes more sense from a progression POV. I just hope something like this becomes part of the game so much because I feel time attack has brought me the best PSO experience so far, period. That's what I want this game to be ultimately, a better game then anything that came before it. Edit: But then again, since the single party experience is supposed to be more challenging, I guess it would be cool if they be unlocked after the content that is there. (After forest free field, you unlock single party forest content for example)

You don't know how many people I encounter who have never done the time attack mission, and then come out saying that it was the most tense experience they have had in the game. Why is something like this treaten so secondary, that's what i am against really. But as i've said, the "time attack" nature makes it so. Single party content would therefore be great.

Something very minor as well which I like is, because there are no respawning enemies, and you actually have to search a way to continue in them, you actually get the chance to hear the calm music in this game similar to PSO1

[Darki]

Yhis is what a lot you have been doing on this board. Shoving your views down peoples throat and wanting them to play the game the way YOU want to play it. If all that stuff was implemented, I would stop playing.

Well, if you're referring to me, I don't remember doing anything but discussing possible improvements that could make some of the game features a bit better, like here or in the previous thread about MPAs, I don't remember telling anybody how to play.


No actually, I am not. If you understand the basics of balance, then you should know it's supposed to cater to everyone instead of only 1 group.

The problem is that your concept of balance seems to come through the act of alienating those who do like play in MPAs. Aren't those worth catering then?


As i've said, MPA free fields are the most rewarding right now

But the thing is, yeah, MPAs are very rewarding, but my question is: is that the real problem? The way you put it is pretty much like "oh noes, people play too much MPAs because they're easy and rewarding, let's disable them".

That is not an action having in mind balance. You don't even try to find out what's the real problem behind MPAs. Why is it bad that they're the most rewarding feature of the game? Isn't this a multiplayer game, or is that second "M" in "MMO" just decorating?

I don't believe that the problem is that. I've been in plenty of MPAs lately and for me the main problem is that those rewards come with a very easy and in many cases boring playstyle. In MPAs, monsters only increase in number, you potentially have 12 people to kill monsters that one player could easily kill without help, and they don't even get a buff to balance their power against those 12 potential players. One aggravating feature in this game is also that most of our weapons have means to AoE, in a way that we would take pretty much the same time to kill one than one hundred monsters as the damage is the same regardless of the enemies numbers. This gets to the point that in many cases you don't even get to hit many enemies in MPAs because stuff dies too fast.

The problem is actually very very simple. MPAs are most rewarding because having more people on the area gets you more mobs, but they have the same resistance as they'd have against one player, so you have tons of monsters that die in seconds. Thus, you get more drops from them.

Maybe the solution would be something more smart than just disabling MPAs, like making monsters in these areas spawn with power-ups depending on the number of players in the sector, so they pose a little challenge (and in case of thougher monsters, a real threat). This would allow people to be able to tag all monsters, to fight for a bit longer against the monster hordes, and it would also reduce the rewards of MPAs slightly, as things wouldn't die that fast.

For me that's a much more interesting change. MPAs are a great concept for this game. To play a TA with only 4 players I can play mario party 8 in my Wii.

[gigawuts]

MPA's are easy, mindless, and the best way to make money at the cost of no planning and minimal coordination (follow the blob of grey dots on screen, whee!). This is all fine except for the part where they're the best way to make money.

So just make 4 player boss runs the most beneficial, and tie boss player teleporter count to the reward. Put boxes back in the boss room after you kill the boss. Separate MPA's from boss runs - give boss runs larger 4 player areas, make S Ranks more difficult to achieve (see: just kill more crap), and then tie the rank to the number and type of boxes spawned. Get an S-Rank with whipped cream and a cherry on top, get 6 red boxes. Get an A, get some blue and orange boxes.

[Chik'Tikka]

Wall of text+^_^+

absolutely making mobs harder to kill in MPAs are a better solution!! i mean think about it, MPAs are so rewarding people almost have to play them+^_^+ JPs even more so, i think this is Sega's way of trying to get out of the action multiplayer RPG and more into a style more true to the MMOJRPG style game play, also, MPAs are a great way to actually meet people and play with others, i mean isn't that the whole reason we play multiplayer games?? to enjoy games we like with other people around the world? (and show off the stuff we have?)? i think Sega is saying "stop being clicky antisocial players and have fun with new people more often"

[Omega-z]

First off Agitated_AT PSO1 didn't have a true TA that's a PSU wantabe add-on. The closes you get to a PSO1 TA is Challenge Mode but not for it's time limit since the only time thing was for the bonus weapon's if you finished within a certain time(using real time not in-game time), but this wasn't clocked for a more stress free play. Challenge Mode is more of a Survival mission with Puzzle's.

Now on to your idea. I do agree that there need's to be more Puzzle's, cool event's that add's time to thing's like defusing a bomb or run out of an area....etc, I Agree 4 party is best, But in area's in the mish that could have up to 12 man puzzle's (not Mob fighting, of 3 team's) to progress back to a 4 party area. Timer should not be in the game directly (I know you don't like that to much) except for event trial's . But should be like how PSO1 handled there real time rare weapon reward's (which should be completely different drops form the main game and have more then one reward for different times). Mob's need to be harder the farther you go and the puzzles too, they could also add equipment/skill/PA limit's in some of the Mob room's/area's. This also mean's this need's to be added at the end or close to the end of story, which means fighting Falz or who ever it is.

[Z-0]

I just believe there should be more emphasis on the TA quests (or more quests like them). Take this:


Time attack should stay as it is... a team only challenge/fun mode imo. I tried it and it was fun but i didn't get much out of it so nah.
This is the problem: People aren't getting much out of it so they just shrug it off and don't bother at all, and would rather just mindlessly spam MPAs. While this isn't a problem in itself (providing one is enjoying themselves doing it), encouraging people to ignore different modes of play is daft.

It's the reason that Challenge Mode was ignored by the majority in PSO as well; not much was gotten out of it so people just didn't do it (there were the S-Rank weapons, but once people got them, goodbye Challenge Mode)

The thing is, some people find these modes extremely fun, but people not being encouraged to do them is making it harder for people to play what they enjoy. Me and a friend love the TA quests to bits, but nobody ever wants to play them, so we're forced to just play in a duo (and we much prefer to have a full party for these kind of things).

Personally, I believe they should up the rewards on them (although they've already done this with Kuroto's COs) and add a lot more of them. This would encourage people to do them more often, and you never know, more people might find out they prefer this way of playing.

About Kuroto's Orders:

S-Ranking Naberius Normal: 30,000 meseta.
S-Ranking Naberius Hard: 50,000 meseta.
S-Ranking Lilipa Normal: 35,000 meseta.
S-Ranking Lilipa Hard: 60,000 meseta.

This is 175,000 meseta per character, per day. If you have multiple characters, the TA quests are the most steady way to make money (although you could earn more in MPAs, though you'd have to do the boring grind).