Other subclasses?

[Dan Maku]

So far, the only subclass mentioned was Force for Hunter, with Hunters able to use techs. What other benefits could be gained from other subclasses, like -say- a Ranger with a Hunter subclass? Or Fighter with a Gunner subclass?

[Blackheart521]

Well with subbing a Gunner/Ranger you could possibly (depending on how they implement it) get Weak bullet onto a hunter increasing their utility as one example. ^^;

[Mystil]

Oh my god, if I had weak bullet on my hunter. . .

[jooozek]

Oh my god, if I had weak bullet on my hunter. . .

It wouldn't do you personally (massive emphasis on personally) too much good because if you switch your weapon from rifle to something else you lose all the "weak bullets" in the clip, so effectively you'd get one bullet only.

[Aewyn]

Who knows if you'll even have enough points to get that far in the Ranger tree as a subclass, anyway?

[Mystil]

It wouldn't do you personally (massive emphasis on personally) too much good because if you switch your weapon from rifle to something else you lose all the "weak bullets" in the clip, so effectively you'd get one bullet only.

I can almost time your responses accurately.

[TheAstarion]

Depends how it's implemented.

From the data-mined info, adding a subclass wouldn't allow you to use the sub-class's weapons, but would allow you to use PAs of the sub-class's weapons if you could equip unique ones (partisan PAs on a Souleater, etc), and also the hotbar skills you'd unlocked in that class (weak bullet if you were Gunner or had a Bouquet rifle).

Of course, the mined data also said subbing a caster class didn't enable techs, which has been disproven in the "hunter/force will be HUnewearl" announcement.

The synergy will be difficult to predict until we know for sure what can and can't be done with a subclass. It looks like gunner/ranger will be even more OP if it can use both weak bullet and the PSP2-style chains. Fighter/gunner will be the fast attack melee powerhouse like Fighgunner was before Acrofighter and Fighmaster were introduced in PSU. Ranger/Hunter for heavy weapons like Protranser, with options for traps and perhaps a taunt synergy to lure enemies into your bombs. Hunter/techer will have its guard stance, which doesn't affect T-atk, and its buffed buffs, and turn into a Paladin kind of type.

Probably. Hopefully.

The only thing you can do is learn all the ins and outs of all the classes, and assemble your build accordingly. Hope for the best, and plan for the worst.

[MelancholyWitch]

Looks like my speculation was right! Thank goodness they implemented this... it will feel like old PSO being a support RAnger or HUnter will actually be useful especially for the harder modes to come, RAnewearls ftw!

[Silver Crow]

as a new player to the pso genre... WHAT? force hunter? techs on hunters? someone enlighten me.. is this true... how does it work. what the fuck o.o

also if it was true i don't see how it's useful.. apart from the heal... i'd rather use partisan for aoe and sword for single target or something. i don't know.. feels messy

[Jonth]

as a new player to the pso genre... WHAT? force hunter? techs on hunters? someone enlighten me.. is this true... how does it work. what the fuck o.o

also if it was true i don't see how it's useful.. apart from the heal... i'd rather use partisan for aoe and sword for single target or something. i don't know.. feels messy

It all depends on your play-style. If you prefer to stick with partisan, you could sub in force and not only get a regenerating heal, you would get shifta and deband (support abilities that increase attack and defense respectively).

I, however, will probably go with something like Techer/Hunter. That way, I can melee and tech with my wand, and have guard stance that significantly increases my S-Def but doesn't hurt my most important offensive stat, T-ATK (Guard stance only lowers S-ATK and R-ATK).

It depends though. If Techers can already hold their own on the front lines (meaning they don't die it two hits from the bigger boss monsters), I might just sub in Force for the extra offensive capabilities from the Force tree.

[gigawuts]

as a new player to the pso genre... WHAT? force hunter? techs on hunters? someone enlighten me.. is this true... how does it work. what the fuck o.o

Ha ha ha, er, okay. This is getting closer to PSO's class structure now, which a lot of us welcome. It's also in the style of PSU's classes. Where to start here...

In PSO1 all casts could use traps, while all humans and newmans could use techs. Newmans tended to be better with techs (this was expanded on in later versions of the game).

When you go into classes as well, the race/class combination was effectively a subclass option. A HUcast wasn't just a male cast with slightly stronger atp and hp, it was the hunter that laid traps (HUcaseals also did this after the GC version). A HUnewearl wasn't just a female newman with slightly worse atp and hp, it was the combat support hunter that regenerated TP (Only newmans did this). Humans lay in between as they do now, not having amazing techs but also not having the worst hp and atp.

There was no RAnewearl or FOcast. The RAmarl was added in the gamecube version, and acted as pretty much a gun-oriented HUnewearl.

This added a layer of complexity and numerous options, plus let you customize your playstyle as you saw fit. It was a subtler way of adding subclasses in a semi-realistic way (as real as scifi fantasy gets anyway). A female newman wouldn't be relegated exclusively to being force, and wouldn't just forget how to use techs when going hunter. The race/class combos were chosen for mainly balance reasons, giving choices of some unique takes, but kept it to a minimum. HUnewm didn't exist, for instance, and FOcast/RAnewearl would be so bad at their roles (ZERO MST for casts, and the worst ATA for newmans) that they weren't even available. That's why some of us are so giddy at the idea of playing these combos, we were denied them and now we finally have them in our grasp.

edit: To expand on why having less-than-the-best techs on a hunter is good, there's a few reasons. First, and most important, there were no PA's. Take your ordinary swing on your weapons - and leave it at that. Second, and still important, tech damage was calculated very differently from regular damage. There was no s-atk, r-atk, or t-atk; similarly, there was no s-def, r-def, or t-def. There was DFP, then elemental resistances. If an enemy was only taking 1 damage from your Handgun +1, you could get Foie and hit for some percentage reduced of what you'd normally hit. If your Foie did 100 damage, and the enemy had 25% fire resistance, all Foie hits did 75 damage. Due to the nature of the damage formula, shifta and deband plus jellen and zalure, (what is now weak bullet and jellen shot) were all available on a HUnewearl or RAmarl, whereas normally only forces had all four. These combined took enemies down considerably.

[The Walrus]

Personally I'm just excited to have Resta on other classes :3

[Aewyn]

I seem to recall the RAmarl being in PSO DC v2.

[MelancholyWitch]

as a new player to the pso genre... WHAT? force hunter? techs on hunters? someone enlighten me.. is this true... how does it work. what the fuck o.o

also if it was true i don't see how it's useful.. apart from the heal... i'd rather use partisan for aoe and sword for single target or something. i don't know.. feels messy

Basically it's from old PSO in a way, since classes were more based on what gender/race you were not just being a hunter, the combination of your gender and race played a huge role when selecting your class, this gave room for many Hybrid builds, now with this added such gender/race combinations will be useful for example a Newman female despite having the lowest base R atk will actually be useful if combined with a FOrce since you will have the greatest T atk of all the other RAngers.

[Flame]

I seem to recall the RAmarl being in PSO DC v2.

nerp. Ep 1 & 2 saw the introduction of the Hucaseal, Ramarl, and Fomar

[Crimson Exile]

Hmmmm Hunter/fighter for me :-D if it's possible of course

[Skyly HUmar]

as a new player to the pso genre... WHAT? force hunter? techs on hunters? someone enlighten me.. is this true... how does it work. what the fuck o.o

also if it was true i don't see how it's useful.. apart from the heal... i'd rather use partisan for aoe and sword for single target or something. i don't know.. feels messy

If youre new to the series, i can tell you this much: In PSO1, hunters and rangers could use techs, and they could use some of each other's weapons. Debuffing attack and defence was a spell, not an ability, so the female hunters and rangers (males could not do both) could debuff the enemies and buff themselves. Attack techs were not too good on them but having resta, anti, s/d and or z/j was an awesome combo.

[Skyly HUmar]

Hmmmm Hunter/fighter for me :-D if it's possible of course

You read my mind :P. If i can use the subclass' gears ill use whichever one has more S-attack as the main class. If i cant ill use hunter as main, im too used to sword gear :P.


Sry, double post

[Gama]

ill go techer->fighter or fighter techer.

dunno wich one will be better.

[kkow]

so what you are all saying is force subclass>the rest? hope they implement this well and not be like that gearless gunslash.

[gigawuts]

They're kind of making it sound like you won't get skillsheets of your subclass. And that might be what they do to make you pick your main class...

If that's what they do, yeah, I think force is going to be the best subclass. Hunter weapons without gears, just guard, or step attack? Why would you ever sub hunter? Ranger without weak bullet? Why, for launcher spam? Just main ranger.

They'd HAVE to give skillsheets with subclasses, but that would have to cost the player something else. Unless we've been playing half classes all along, and hunter is REALLY supposed to be hunter+fighter combined.

[Skyly HUmar]

Giga... after reading that i got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach X:.

If there are no sub skill sheets ill main hunter/techer and Fighter/techer. Hunter has been very fun this far, and Fighter sounds like its gonna be awesome.

EDIT: Forget the force... dat megid :L

[RogueA]

Probably just going to go Hunter/Force (or Techer, not sure what the difference will be) and Ranger/Force(Techer) on my subs. Resta, Shifta, and Deband are sorely missed at the moment.

[Hrith]

The deciding factor will be whether we can use the skill tree of the sub classes.

[LordChampion]

The deciding factor will be whether we can use the skill tree of the sub classes.

Thinking about that, what would be the point of subbing if you can't use the skill tree? Just to be a Hunter with a Rod? Seems like not nearly enough incentive to sub, especially considering that, outside of weapon availability, Forces are the only class with a unique trait, Techniques. Makes sense that you'll also have the skill tree of your sub class, perhaps even some of the weapons, for it to be worth anything at all.

I've noticed that there is an EXP bonus when receiving your mission rank that has been zero thus far, so I wonder if this bonus will be thrown into your subclass once they're implemented, which will then cause you level in that class to go up and make more tree skills available.

IT GOES DEEP, MAN, NOBODY KNOWS!

[Omega-z]

well the combo's are:

Hunter/Fighter
Hunter/Ranger
Hunter/Force
Hunter/Gunner
Hunter/Techer

Ranger/Hunter
Ranger/Gunner
Ranger/Force
Ranger/Fighter
Ranger/Techer

Force/Hunter
Force/Ranger
Force/Techer
Force/Fighter
Force/Gunner

Fighter/Hunter
Fighter/Ranger
Fighter/Force
Fighter/Gunner
Fighter/Techer

Gunner/Hunter
Gunner/Ranger
Gunner/Force
Gunner/Fighter
Gunner/Techer

Techer/Hunter
Techer/Ranger
Techer/Force
Techer/Fighter
Techer/Gunner

30 Class combo's

and each Subclass with there own Skill Tree of a total of 6 new Skill Tree's

[Darki]

^That depends on how they work. If subclasses are made to give skills, weapon and PA/tech ussage and stats, then there wouldn't be a difference between the order (as in, a HU/FO would be the same as a FO/HU). In that case they would make only 15 combinations.

I believe that makes sense and reduces the trouble on balancing too many combinations.

[Silver Crow]

so is this all a rumor or actually confirmed

[Mystil]

I'll wait til some more info, or just when they come out to make my decision. Too early to say what I should do.. (though honestly, I'm not really interested in them)

[Coatl]

^That depends on how they work. If subclasses are made to give skills, weapon and PA/tech ussage and stats, then there wouldn't be a difference between the order (as in, a HU/FO would be the same as a FO/HU). In that case they would make only 15 combinations.

I believe that makes sense and reduces the trouble on balancing too many combinations.

I hope you're right, because I honestly think 30 combinations is too much.
It seems to me like sub classing will be the only way to advance also. So possibly a pure ranger would be outclassed by a ranger/gunner sub class.

[LordChampion]

^That depends on how they work. If subclasses are made to give skills, weapon and PA/tech ussage and stats, then there wouldn't be a difference between the order (as in, a HU/FO would be the same as a FO/HU). In that case they would make only 15 combinations.

I believe that makes sense and reduces the trouble on balancing too many combinations.

See, I dunno about that. FO/HU might be FO stats with access to HU weapons and skill tree, while HU/FO would be HU stats + FO weapons/tree making it a different combo altogether. One is better at melee with access to magicksz while the other is magical with access to giant swords.

THE NUMBERS WILL DECIDE!!

[gigawuts]

It's not really too much. You just take the two things you like and combine them in the order you prefer. What you're REALLY looking at is your favorite class, and then your next favorite option. If you don't like guns that's all the gun mains out and probably all the gun subs out. If you want swords you're really looking at just two main options, and then it's down to whether you want more swords or which type of tech bonuses you want (as a hunter or fighter you probably want techer, as the light tree is sure to buff resta somehow).

That said, there's a whole slew of ways they can do this. Pick one from each row:
Main Class's Stats: Full/Half & Half/None
Sub Class's Stats: Full/Half & Half/None
Main Class's Skilltree: Full/Partial/None
Sub Class's Skilltree: Full/Partial/None
Those four lines and their three options are what will determine subclass balance. I've bolded the options I find the most feasible for an actually balanced system. I doubt we'll get the full stats from both, I doubt they'll remove skilltrees from subclasses, and I doubt we'll see stripped down main skilltrees.

I think the most balanced system will be 100% or 75% main's stats, 0% or 25% sub's stats, and access to both full skilltrees.

The resulting combinations are interesting if both mainclasses AND subclasses have the same atk up skills. That's where alternate skilltrees REALLY play in. S-ATK Up is only so good on hunter itself, but if 0% stats are gained from subs...you might be able to gain extra S-ATK from a fighter sub's tree.

edit: The atk up skills can also be used to fill in the holes of a class's skills, if no stats are gained off the subclass. You want to go hunter/force, but hunter's base t-atk is bad? Get some T-ATK Up 1 in there!

[Darki]

But that's what I see unnecesary. Then the only difference between a HU/FO and a FO/HU, for example, would be the stat distribution... Is it really worth doubling the number of possible combinations just for that? Specially when we have skills and mag that can affect our stats greatly already.

Maybe it's just that I'm too wary of SEGA screwing it as they did with PSU class system, where at the end most of them were completely outclassed by 3~4 others. The least, the easiest to balance.

[LordChampion]

Balance what, though? A character's ability to tear-ass around space? Everyone's lookin like they've got that packed in tight.

[sexyslut]

You can't put SP in your subclass skilltree or else we will have HU's and FO's that can cast weak bullet.

[gigawuts]

Weak bullet is the new jellen. You just have to aim now and it's on a cooldown.

As far as what needs balancing, you don't want players with two classes having double the stats of players with one class. That's just ridiculous, even in a PVE game.

[Arika]

It could be like FF11 where you only have half of your SP for sub-classes only.
says, at lv 40 HU, you have 20 point for may be your ranger sub. so you may only have 1-2 bullet and longer cool down. (if they allow you to use rifle)

and it is possible that when sub-class system is implement. you may be able to use one or more weapon category from the class too.

Hu sub may allow you to use wire-lance.
Fighter sub may allow you to use double saber
RA sub probably allow you to use cannon.
gunner sub probably allow you to use mechgun.
Fo sub probably allow you to use rod.
techer sub probably allow you to use wand.

(Sword and talis already have weapon that usable to all classes)

[gigawuts]

That's an interesting thought - all the subclass's skills in its skilltree have their SP (or bonuses) halved.

I could see that working perfectly.

You can't really restrict SP itself though, because then you'd need a new tree just for when you use the class as a subclass...

[Aewyn]

Balance what, though? A character's ability to tear-ass around space? Everyone's lookin like they've got that packed in tight.Roooooofl.

[Takatsuki]

Here's how I think it'll go down:

1. Subclass Level = +x-ATK (so a Level 40 HU = +40 S-ATK on your main class and a Level 5 RA = +5 R-ATK on your main class)
2. Automatic Skills on your subclass will work (like JA Bonus, Weak Hit Advance and T-ATK Up for example)
3. Usable Skills on your subclass will NOT work (like Fury Stance, Weak Bullet and Photon Flare)
4. Bonuses from Subclass Automatic Skills are halved (rounded down, so for example Level 10 Weak Hit Advance = +12% instead of +25% and Level 10 S-ATK Up = +25 instead of +50)
5. All weapons, PAs and Techs from your subclass can be used.

[Darki]

Balance what, though? A character's ability to tear-ass around space? Everyone's lookin like they've got that packed in tight.

Certainly you didn't play PSU, or you played as the typical overpowered class and didn't care about the rest.

[Skyly HUmar]

Certainly you didn't play PSU, or you played as the typical overpowered class and didn't care about the rest.

I see where you are coming from. But I dont see a reason why you wouldn't just keep the main's stats and get weps/skills/PAs from your sub. Granted some player may want some sub stat changes, so Im just gonna say lets wait for info till we draw conclusions.

[Darki]

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea, of course more means of customization are the better way. I would love to play the most possible balanced hybrid between Hunter and Force on my newearl, so if that was the case I'd go Hunter as main and Force as sub to get a bit better melee bonuses to balance my tech proficiency.

It's just that I'm still a bit wary of how could this end if they mess it even slighty, and in PSU we have a good example of "what-not-to-do".

Honestly, even if I just stated my preferences, I'd rather have 15 combinations, where main and sub were equal, and let the player "fix" the gap. In this game we have the mag and many skills to modify our own stats to a certain degree anyways.

[gigawuts]

It's down to what you prefer, tankier or more defensive.

Those stats on the extra fifteen examples are already covered in the mag's stats, if a person was so inclined to fill the gap in such a way.

I really don't see what the big deal is. The option overload in PSU was having way too many main choices. Here you don't have that, you have 6 mains to choose from and then 5 subs, since you can't pick your main. That's broken down into 3 real choices, with two different takes. Like up close, physical stuff? Fighter or hunter is great for you. Want tanky, or light and fast? For your secondary abilities do you want more physical stuff, a couple guns, or do you want to support the team (and yourself) with techs?

Really, I'm not seeing how this is bad or even half the mess PSU was. With all of these being individually balanced, having 5% more or 5% less this or that is actually a good thing. Some players will want fighter weaponry with more s-def. Some players will want hunter weaponry with more s-atk. No artificial, seemingly nonsensical limitations on being unable to use this sword but being able to use that worse performing sword. The weapon ranking system in PSU was just beyond dumb.

[Gama]

i wonder. if i go techer-fighter

i'll only have to level techer right? or ill need to level fighter aswell?

will the subclass itself have a level?

[lostinseganet]

It all depends on your play-style. If you prefer to stick with partisan, you could sub in force and not only get a regenerating heal, you would get shifta and deband (support abilities that increase attack and defense respectively).

I, however, will probably go with something like Techer/Hunter. That way, I can melee and tech with my wand, and have guard stance that significantly increases my S-Def but doesn't hurt my most important offensive stat, T-ATK (Guard stance only lowers S-ATK and R-ATK).

It depends though. If Techers can already hold their own on the front lines (meaning they don't die it two hits from the bigger boss monsters), I might just sub in Force for the extra offensive capabilities from the Force tree.they need to be able to counter attack hits. Then they would be killed if they screw up maybe 4 times?