Why Air Attacks do more DPS. +Video & Explanation

[Silver Crow]

This is the revised version of my previous thread. I apologise for the confusion the first thread caused. This should clear it up.

To put it simply there are 3 weapons that have no delay during Air Attacks. The Sword, Launcher and Gunslash. What this means is you can combo a lot of attacks in the air before hitting the ground. The shots in the air are faster and have less delay than the ones on the ground. Many people ignore this and only do 3 shots in the air, what I'm talking about is 7+. This is very difficult, it took me some time to get the timing right but it can as much as double your damage output.

So if it's difficult why do it? Well i'm using a PS3 controller but many other players have access to keyboards with the macro function. If they can precisely input the correct delays they can consistently use the maximum amount of attacks in the air.

In terms of 'max' attacks, my findings are: [SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkFp6Gh-cfA&feature=plcp"]Launcher 7 shots[/url]Sword 8 Slashes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7geRGMxXsc)Ground Launcher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EVvbVAujqc[/SPOILER-BOX]

To see how these compare to ground versions [SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjFT5uOySx4)[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v9_DAj9VmI.[/SPOILER-BOX]

These are the standard air attacks most people use. As you can see it is atleast three times slower. [SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtOCLfDAQ8[/SPOILER-BOX]

So the bottom line... is this worthwhile? Yes, just like +10'ing your equipment and affixing souls for maximum damage output... this is just as important (if not more). The damage also exponentially increases with more atk since each shot benefits from it, thus skyrocketing your damage. I hope that cleared up the mess and confusion some people started on my previous thread.

Thanks for reading.

[Sp-24]

Many people ignore this and only do 3 shots in the air, what I'm talking about is 7+.

WRONG.

The whole reason why so many people, rangers especially, are hopping around like idiots in the first place is to be able to do more than 3 attacks with a Gunslash or Launcher. Do you actually think people are jumping before attacking because they have nothing better to do?

As had been said in the previous thread: this is nothing new. And, as also has been said in the other thread, there is a subforum specifically for threads like this (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45).

[Silver Crow]

WRONG.

The whole reason why so many people, rangers especially, are hopping around like idiots in the first place is to be able to do more than 3 attacks with a Gunslash or Launcher. Do you actually think people are jumping before attacking because they have nothing better to do?

As had been said in the previous thread: this is nothing new. And, as also has been said in the other thread, there is a subforum specifically for threads like this (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45).

No, people are jumping up and down to angle their shots. It is difficult to hit some targets whilst grounded. And i doubt anyone is doing 7 shots.

How are you saying this is nothing new? Have you seen people shooting 7 shots in one jump? I've clearly explained this. I'd like you see you perform 7 shots twice in a row for proof.

Edit: i'm done with idiots like these, i've given people the information and do what you want with it. Apparently i get no thanks for it but that's fine, off to bed g'day.

[Sp-24]

I'm a Force, so I don't use Launchers. However, I've been using a Gunblade to recover all of my PP in one jump since forever. Also, I couldn't help but notice that every single level 40 Launcher Ranger I party with rapid-fires in the mid-air. But how are you saying that people don't realise that, that I don't understand.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

How are you saying this is nothing new? Have you seen people shooting 7 shots in one jump? I've clearly explained this. I'd like you see you perform 7 shots twice in a row for proof.

Because the enemy is usually dead before you've pulled off 7 shots.

Old news is old... Do you actually stand there watching other gunners and counting the number of shots they do per jump or something?


Edit: i'm done with idiots like these, i've given people the information and do what you want with it. Apparently i get no thanks for it but that's fine, off to bed g'day.

Yeah thanks for posting something that is common sense, maybe next time you can make a video on how to charge your techs or equip your PB or something.

[TaigaUC]

Thanks for the information. I've always preferred to use air attacks, primarily because it's easier to get the positioning right since characters don't move forward while swinging in the air, but also because air attacks felt faster than ground attacks.

Honestly, I didn't notice that the normal launcher shots don't need to reload in the air. I always try to get as many shots off as I can before I hit ground, but somehow the absence of reloading didn't register in my mind. As you described, I use launcher in the air so I can shoot the ground for splash damage, as it's far more reliable than shooting on the ground.

Edit3: Whether it seems like common sense or not, some things slip by us sometimes. There'll always be people who might not already know. If a poster is sharing information with good intentions, I can at least appreciate the effort. Personally, if I already know, or if it seems obvious to me, I just don't say anything. If it's really that obvious, nobody else would reply anyway, unless they are flaming, which is unnecessary and discourages others from sharing information for fear of receiving the same response. The original poster should also avoid snapping back. That'd just throw fuel onto the fire.

[blace]

Take a look at the other thread. He went as far as blaming us for its derailment.

[Chik'Tikka]

what?? +^_^+
+^_^+
weak hit advance, standing snipe, and maxing out atk can get a ranger with a rifle the ability to do 10k+ dmg
and you can't jump with standing snipe+^_^+

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, the op should also avoid being condescending, and try not to antagonize a situation any further. It works both ways. Snapping back will only make the situation worse.

[gigawuts]

This guy likes to lash out at people for no logically connected reason, I wouldn't take it too personally. Man that time I said I didn't feel sonic arrow x3 was necessary was a doozy.

[Lostbob117]

You know this is cool and all but, it's still in the wrong forum.

[MissMalice]

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF YOUR AVERAGE RANGER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-nm7qjAUGE
THE END

Seriously though, thanks for the hard work on the videos and comparisons, I guess? I kinda thought this was common knowledge too.

[RemChu]

Hahaha, kids can be mean.

[Lumpen Thingy]

You this is cool and all but, it's still in the wrong forum.

aumary jr. for sure

[Lostbob117]

aumary jr. for sure

Totally.

[kkow]

more like the rest of you are too hostile my god. does it really bother you that much? dont reply then. or get a mod to close/move.

id like to see more of this used during pse bursts, i rarely see 5+ shots in the air. i main a ranger , and to be honest im just too lazy when i have a launcher equipped. the 3 shot launcher burst + pa is what i see the most, and i guess its fine for now since the targets are probably dead by then.

[XbikXBd]

This is the revised version of my previous thread. I apologise for the confusion the first thread caused. This should clear it up.

To put it simply there are 3 weapons that have no delay during Air Attacks. The Sword, Launcher and Gunslash. What this means is you can combo a lot of attacks in the air before hitting the ground. The shots in the air are faster and have less delay than the ones on the ground. Many people ignore this and only do 3 shots in the air, what I'm talking about is 7+. This is very difficult, it took me some time to get the timing right but it can as much as double your damage output.

So if it's difficult why do it? Well i'm using a PS3 controller but many other players have access to keyboards with the macro function. If they can precisely input the correct delays they can consistently use the maximum amount of attacks in the air.

In terms of 'max' attacks, my findings are: [SPOILER-BOX]Launcher 7 shots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkFp6Gh-cfA&feature=plcp)Sword 8 Slashes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7geRGMxXsc)Gunslash 9 shots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EVvbVAujqc)[/SPOILER-BOX]

To see how these compare to ground versions [SPOILER-BOX]Ground Launcher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjFT5uOySx4)Ground Gunslash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v9_DAj9VmI).[/SPOILER-BOX]

These are the standard air attacks most people use. As you can see it is atleast three times slower. [SPOILER-BOX]The slow standard people use (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtOCLfDAQ8)[/SPOILER-BOX]

So the bottom line... is this worthwhile? Yes, just like +10'ing your equipment and affixing souls for maximum damage output... this is just as important (if not more). The damage also exponentially increases with more atk since each shot benefits from it, thus skyrocketing your damage. I hope that cleared up the mess and confusion some people started on my previous thread.

Thanks for reading.
^^;
thank you this helps me think of making a gunner character.

[dablacksephiroth]

Thanks for the information. I've always preferred to use air attacks, primarily because it's easier to get the positioning right since characters don't move forward while swinging in the air, but also because air attacks felt faster than ground attacks.

Honestly, I didn't notice that the normal launcher shots don't need to reload in the air. I always try to get as many shots off as I can before I hit ground, but somehow the absence of reloading didn't register in my mind. As you described, I use launcher in the air so I can shoot the ground for splash damage, as it's far more reliable than shooting on the ground.

Edit3: Whether it seems like common sense or not, some things slip by us sometimes. There'll always be people who might not already know. If a poster is sharing information with good intentions, I can at least appreciate the effort. Personally, if I already know, or if it seems obvious to me, I just don't say anything. If it's really that obvious, nobody else would reply anyway, unless they are flaming, which is unnecessary and discourages others from sharing information for fear of receiving the same response. The original poster should also avoid snapping back. That'd just throw fuel onto the fire.Words out me mouth! I never saw the original thread and don't plan to, as I came in here all I'd seen was what was written in here.

What I first see is a politely written paragraph that states who his targets are for this read and offers tips and tricks.

Next I see over 7 videos posted to help instruct and show just how what his paragraphs are here referring to. (As one who often likes to craft tips and tricks videos myself, I understand the time and effort it takes to get a recording going, perfect it and wait for it to render, then upload to YouTube. Though these samples were pretty small in size, it still took out time from getting to play the game so he could thanklessly assist others.)

And finally to top it off, I learned something. (Mainly the Launchers)

Now.. when I'm in a Multi-party, I am Force. I often study everyone's patterns surrounding me so I can understand the path they've mapped out and eventually when I'm sure of how they're running the place, I finally step in and take leadership of herding the sheep. (AKA I'm pretty much always in the front.)

But I'm not blind, I also watch other players in combat. It's a habit I've developed from other MMORPG's. I've watched several Rangers, often because I'm curious or awaiting a Weak Bullet chance. I HAVE seen some Japanese rangers pretty much hovering. But it always looks like they're doing some photon art skill.. they reload in the air and stay there.. but they shoot very slow.

This 7'ish air-shots, rapidly, was new to me.

But, there's something I'm concerned with. When performing Attacks and Air Attacks (at least as Force) and you strike an enemy, the Just Attack cursor receives a small pushback delay.

What I would like to see is video comparison of Launcher Ground Attacks striking an enemy 3 times and Launcher Air Attacks striking an enemy 3 or more times.

I am pretty much just wondering if that delay when striking an enemy slows attack rate to normal speed like Rod seems to feel it's doing.

I appreciate the acknowledgement you've given, and not because you asked for it. So forgive me for laughing with the next quote below, though.



A DAY IN THE LIFE OF YOUR AVERAGE RANGER
JUMP'N'SHOOT MAN - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-nm7qjAUGE)
THE END

Seriously though, thanks for the hard work on the videos and comparisons, I guess? I kinda thought this was common knowledge too.LMAO!!! JumpANDSHOOTMANNNNN!

[LordChampion]

Yeah but dude, why?

[Angelo]

The difference for sword is pretty noticeable, I've been noticing that since alpha.

However, and I can't be certain, it seems like there's a slight Dexterity/Ability cripple for aerial attacks; my damage window doesn't seem as nice as when I'm grounded.

[Silver Crow]

This guy likes to lash out at people for no logically connected reason, I wouldn't take it too personally. Man that time I said I didn't feel sonic arrow x3 was necessary was a doozy.

Yeah, the op should also avoid being condescending, and try not to antagonize a situation any further. It works both ways. Snapping back will only make the situation worse.

Take a look at the other thread. He went as far as blaming us for its derailment.

This is a thread for discussing my ideas. Keep it like that please, if you want to discuss how much you hate me or how dumb i am or put me in a bad light then go to the other thread. In the first thread i just posted information without clarifying it so i again i apologise for the confusion it may have caused... This time i spent 2 hours preparing these videos. Took me a while to get 7 shots twice in a row, 9 shots on gunslash etc. I'm also new to making videos so i was searching how to edit with virtualdub and compress. The reason i'm telling you is I put a lot of effort in this thread to get my point across and the first reply i get is a bolded massive 'wrong'. I stayed up till 4 hours later than i usually do so i was tired and flamed the first poster. Well whatever but at the very least don't bring discussions from ANOTHER thread here.


what?? +^_^+
+^_^+
weak hit advance, standing snipe, and maxing out atk can get a ranger with a rifle the ability to do 10k+ dmg
and you can't jump with standing snipe+^_^+

I'm not talking about the rifle. Look at what i wrote 'Launcher, Sword, Gunslash'. The rifle has a delay in the air.


Because the enemy is usually dead before you've pulled off 7 shots.

Old news is old... Do you actually stand there watching other gunners and counting the number of shots they do per jump or something?

Yeah thanks for posting something that is common sense, maybe next time you can make a video on how to charge your techs or equip your PB or something.

That's like saying there is no point to affixing your weapon for +60 atk, +20 hp. Or even +10'ing a weapon since monsters die to fast. I'm not here to discuss what is needed and what isn't, i'm simply informing people how you can do more damage.


@To the rest of the replies: I am fairly certain this is not common knowledge. Yes people doing 3 shots or even 4 in the air might be a bit more common but i'm talking about the MAX. There are 7 shots you can do and 6 of them get a Just-Attack bonus.

Let's compare standard Launcher attacks people do, i'm going to put the terms simply using additional maths (not multiplicative which will surely increase the damage much more).

Standard 3-4: Shot 1: 100%, Shot2-4 300-400% + 2-3x JA Bonus
Max Air attacks: Shot 1: 100%, Shot2-7 700% + 6x JA bonus

So after a repeat the Max Air attacks will have fired 14 shots. 12 of which have a JA bonus. With standard gunning you would have fired lets say 8 shots, 6 of which have a JA bonus.

And a reminder to those who want to insult me personally i'm not going to reply and will ask a mod to remove your post. I want this thread to be clean and to actually answer people's serious questions or discuss with them why its good/bad (this is what threads are all about). There have been plenty of posts insulting me already and i'm done with people that do. This is really the last reply to those sort of comments since if this forum has ANY etiquette at all the mods would delete the posts.

[blace]

Yes this is informative, I never said it wasn't and yes I did come off as harsh, but again, when it comes down to it, this has been around for far longer than you and I have played the game. It may have changed from what people experienced in the alpha and beta testing, and it has some practicality to it. In the end, it is a matter or preference or at least like Lina mentioned, it can be a waste of time to do such maneuvers when things die within a certain number of hits.

As for the record, this is more or less a guide. You may not see it as such, but such threads pertaining to improving on the damage output as well as putting out effective styles is the same as a guide.

[Silver Crow]

Yes this is informative, I never said it wasn't and yes I did come off as harsh, but again, when it comes down to it, this has been around for far longer than you and I have played the game. It may have changed from what people experienced in the alpha and beta testing, and it has some practicality to it. In the end, it is a matter or preference or at least like Lina mentioned, it can be a waste of time to do such maneuvers when things die within a certain number of hits.

As for the record, this is more or less a guide. You may not see it as such, but such threads pertaining to improving on the damage output as well as putting out effective styles is the same as a guide.

Ok these are the replies i'm looking to answer.

You say this has been around for long then why hasn't anyone made a thread about it? People haven't even mentioned it at all. They say it's common sense too... From now on i'm going to refer it as 'max air attacks' because people seem to assume 5 shots are acceptable for what i'm talking about. No, as i've said before i'm talking about the 7+ shots. I've been here since the official release of pso2 and havent seen not one post about this let alone a thread/video. So as far as i'm aware it IS new and worthy of posting. I've gotten a few thanks which i really appreciate since i was feeling down after all the bad replies so that is to show even if you was doing 7 slashes in the air or 6 shots before just knowing you can do that extra shot is still more damage and is classed as 'new' information. Anyway i think this theads already proven that so this will be my last reply to these kind of questions (since i've already discussed it numerous times).

Thanks for the written reply this time though.

[Mystil]

aumary jr. for sure

No. That guy(amuary) is in his own league. There is no one to which he can be compared with.

[Silver Crow]

[SPOILER-BOX]Words out me mouth! I never saw the original thread and don't plan to, as I came in here all I'd seen was what was written in here.

What I first see is a politely written paragraph that states who his targets are for this read and offers tips and tricks.

Next I see over 7 videos posted to help instruct and show just how what his paragraphs are here referring to. (As one who often likes to craft tips and tricks videos myself, I understand the time and effort it takes to get a recording going, perfect it and wait for it to render, then upload to YouTube. Though these samples were pretty small in size, it still took out time from getting to play the game so he could thanklessly assist others.)

And finally to top it off, I learned something. (Mainly the Launchers)

Now.. when I'm in a Multi-party, I am Force. I often study everyone's patterns surrounding me so I can understand the path they've mapped out and eventually when I'm sure of how they're running the place, I finally step in and take leadership of herding the sheep. (AKA I'm pretty much always in the front.)

But I'm not blind, I also watch other players in combat. It's a habit I've developed from other MMORPG's. I've watched several Rangers, often because I'm curious or awaiting a Weak Bullet chance. I HAVE seen some Japanese rangers pretty much hovering. But it always looks like they're doing some photon art skill.. they reload in the air and stay there.. but they shoot very slow.

This 7'ish air-shots, rapidly, was new to me.

But, there's something I'm concerned with. When performing Attacks and Air Attacks (at least as Force) and you strike an enemy, the Just Attack cursor receives a small pushback delay.

What I would like to see is video comparison of Launcher Ground Attacks striking an enemy 3 times and Launcher Air Attacks striking an enemy 3 or more times.

I am pretty much just wondering if that delay when striking an enemy slows attack rate to normal speed like Rod seems to feel it's doing.

I appreciate the acknowledgement you've given, and not because you asked for it. So forgive me for laughing with the next quote below, though.

LMAO!!! JumpANDSHOOTMANNNNN![/SPOILER-BOX]

Thanks for this reply, breath of fresh air.

To answer your question from my experience the Launcher and Gunslash don't get the delay. I shoot on average 6+ shots when i'm using the launcher now and havent noticed any delay at all. I assume the delay is only for melee attacks?

Now to all people reading this thread:
I think overall it's worth learning to shoot max times. Even if you don't use it it will speed up your overall shooting. So if you was at 3 before you'd probably do a consistent 5-6 (more with gunslash), or if you're lucky enough to have an expensive keyboard with a macro function you can do max shots with ease. That would have served the purpose of this thread which is to help enlighten people about max attacks in air and empower their damage output even if it's only 1 extra shot at a time (which should't be underestimated dmg wise). Again, thanks for reading.

[lagnarok]

So after a repeat the Max Air attacks will have fired 14 shots. 12 of which have a JA bonus. With standard gunning you would have fired lets say 8 shots, 6 of which have a JA bonus.



I just like to be accurate sometimes.
After the first shot of ground shot, all the shots thereafter is JA.
You can still get JA bonus after the first attack of reload.
Also if you count the shots on ground on air combo, you can actually add 1 to 2 shots till you reload.
You can still cancel reload with jump.

Also, just to point out to why you don't see that many people doing this.
A lot of reason why people only do 3-4 shots beside enemies dying is
because once you get too low, it gets harder for launcher to hit efficiently.
Unless you're only doing lock on and hitting enemies which shouldnt be most of the case for launcher,
it's a lot harder to hit the sweet spot of the ground that hits 4+ enemies.
Even if you are locking onto enemy, launcher speed is low:
Enemies move, and if you miss when you're close to the ground, you do 0 damage.
This happens a lot more frequent if you're far away from the enemy,
and this is most of the case with launcher since you are mid-long range.
The first 2-3 shots in the beginning is high enough that even if you miss,
you hit the ground and still do damage.
Situationally, if I want to shoot a lot more in the air then, if it's available, there's always
places where you can climb up and do more shots from higher altitude.
Also, I'm not quite sure about this, but I feel you can shoot less in the air if you use PAs.
But that maybe just me.

[Silver Crow]

[SPOILER-BOX]I just like to be accurate sometimes.
After the first shot of ground shot, all the shots thereafter is JA.
You can still get JA bonus after the first attack of reload.
Also if you count the shots on ground on air combo, you can actually add 1 to 2 shots till you reload.
You can still cancel reload with jump.

Also, just to point out to why you don't see that many people doing this.
A lot of reason why people only do 3-4 shots beside enemies dying is
because once you get too low, it gets harder for launcher to hit efficiently.
Unless you're only doing lock on and hitting enemies which shouldnt be most of the case for launcher,
it's a lot harder to hit the sweet spot of the ground that hits 4+ enemies.
Even if you are locking onto enemy, launcher speed is low:
Enemies move, and if you miss when you're close to the ground, you do 0 damage.
This happens a lot more frequent if you're far away from the enemy,
and this is most of the case with launcher since you are mid-long range.
The first 2-3 shots in the beginning is high enough that even if you miss,
you hit the ground and still do damage.
Situationally, if I want to shoot a lot more in the air then, if it's available, there's always
places where you can climb up and do more shots from higher altitude.
Also, I'm not quite sure about this, but I feel you can shoot less in the air if you use PAs.
But that maybe just me.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Yeah you have some interesting points. You're right with half but others are situational. For example you said the accuracy starts to fall as you get closer to the ground, that's true but it depends what you're shooting, those shots close to the ground often hit for me but i do notice that they are less accurate than the higher ones.

Oh and i didnt mention ground shots, i was talking about the 4 shots in the air as opposed to 7.

To the PA thing... I'll try it out and post my results in a while. Though if my theory is correct the PA should only take spot of a shot.

Also about the 'sweet spots' i think it doesnt matter as much with the launcher since it' used primarily for aoe. If anything needs to be hit accurately you just switch to rifle/gunslash.

I think the most useful to attack to the max with is gunslash for pp on forces since you'll be able to fill up the bar in a single jump.

[lagnarok]

With sweet spot, I meant location of the ground you want to hit.
Its hard to do that from the same ground level.

[Silver Crow]

With sweet spot, I meant location of the ground you want to hit.
Its hard to do that from the same ground level.

Though sometimes on high ground the lower shots are more accurate since it doesn't seem to lock in when you jump too high (for example helicopter protection).

[ps0k1d]

Actually if done right, you can get just as many, if not more shots off mid air with a rifle as well. Dunno about effectiveness and whatnot, but just watch this video from a buddy of mine.
[SPOILER-BOX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0LgGt_W2Mo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0LgGt_W2Mo[/SPOILER-BOX]

He does get off a lot of shots mid air, and can stay floating for quite some time.

[Silver Crow]

Actually if done right, you can get just as many, if not more shots off mid air with a rifle as well. Dunno about effectiveness and whatnot, but just watch this video from a buddy of mine.
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0LgGt_W2Mo[/SPOILER-BOX]

He does get off a lot of shots mid air, and can stay floating for quite some time.

yeah most people know about this, skipping the reload by using a PA. Works on all other weapons too. nice video tho

[Hansha]

Unfortunately, this is not some groundbreaking discovery that is going to change how the game is played. I have seen players also use jump attacks with launcher ever since the closed beta stage, so it isn't new. And of course, it is a natural curiosity to test how many attacks you can do while airborne, which has been done by many of my allies and even randoms when they were bored.

So the real question is, why isn't 7 shots used more with the launcher? Someone already mentioned that enemies die too quickly. That is the main reason and it is also even more true in a MPA and even more so when PAs are taken into equation. More reasons have already been talked about by lagnarok, and they aren't "situational". Enemies WILL be in clumps the majority of time. If you are attacking from the front and there is an enemy behind, you won't hurt them. However, if you are high enough in altitude, you can fire right behind the enemy in front and hit the one behind him, or you can hit towards the side and behind the front one with greater accuracy. You can't do this when you are right above the ground, and it becomes harder when you are halfway in the air. lagnarok also was saying the chance of missing is greater in these situations, and it is also true. And of course, enemies spawn in groups of more than two, so its even more important for accuracy.
Basically, the MAJORITY of gameplay will have enemies dying too quickly for the 7 shots to matter, or doing 3-4 shots while high in the air would be more accurate and hardly take up any time.

As you probably already guessed, constant air attack is near useless for sword unless it is Rising Edge combos. Rising edge with normal attacks can be done for a ridiculous amount of times. No small or medium size enemy would survive it and the bigger enemies are too heavy for it. Even then, Rising Edge combos are inferior to Sonic Arrow spam.

And for gunslash, singular hits mean that there is no need to jump for accurate AOE blasts. The time it takes you to reload on the ground will be mitigated by the startup time for jumping and reaching the desired height. This would be the same for launcher, but again we are going for more accurate blasts while using that weapon.

[eharima]

so did you work out waht are the actual timings in milliseconds?

[FlameOfYagami]

This useless thread is still going? Thank you for telling us something that was obvious as hell OP ^^;

[Silver Crow]

[SPOILER-BOX]Unfortunately, this is not some groundbreaking discovery that is going to change how the game is played. I have seen players also use jump attacks with launcher ever since the closed beta stage, so it isn't new. And of course, it is a natural curiosity to test how many attacks you can do while airborne, which has been done by many of my allies and even randoms when they were bored.

So the real question is, why isn't 7 shots used more with the launcher? Someone already mentioned that enemies die too quickly. That is the main reason and it is also even more true in a MPA and even more so when PAs are taken into equation. More reasons have already been talked about by lagnarok, and they aren't "situational". Enemies WILL be in clumps the majority of time. If you are attacking from the front and there is an enemy behind, you won't hurt them. However, if you are high enough in altitude, you can fire right behind the enemy in front and hit the one behind him, or you can hit towards the side and behind the front one with greater accuracy. You can't do this when you are right above the ground, and it becomes harder when you are halfway in the air. lagnarok also was saying the chance of missing is greater in these situations, and it is also true. And of course, enemies spawn in groups of more than two, so its even more important for accuracy.
Basically, the MAJORITY of gameplay will have enemies dying too quickly for the 7 shots to matter, or doing 3-4 shots while high in the air would be more accurate and hardly take up any time.

As you probably already guessed, constant air attack is near useless for sword unless it is Rising Edge combos. Rising edge with normal attacks can be done for a ridiculous amount of times. No small or medium size enemy would survive it and the bigger enemies are too heavy for it. Even then, Rising Edge combos are inferior to Sonic Arrow spam.

And for gunslash, singular hits mean that there is no need to jump for accurate AOE blasts. The time it takes you to reload on the ground will be mitigated by the startup time for jumping and reaching the desired height. This would be the same for launcher, but again we are going for more accurate blasts while using that weapon.[/SPOILER-BOX]

I was disappointed with this reply since it started out convincing then just went downhill. You started by stating something i never intended (groundbreaking etc) and ofcourse for some it was natural to see how many attacks they can do in the air. I've never denied any of this yet people STILL discuss it. It's actually getting weird how people keep missing the point.

Again, to reiterate the point of this thread. I only made it to show how many shots were possible and proposing the idea that people should macro/learn it since it obviously does more damage. I never came here to discuss whether it is needed or not. Your argument is exactly like saying you don't need that extra Power III on weapons with Souls, things are dying too fast so what's the point? I can't believe i had to reply to so many posts similar to this and explain the same point over again.

I think the part about the 7 shots being useless is all nonsense. You can't come here and convince with words what has been working practically for me. I can hit the monsters at the back fine with all shots, the lower ones do become less accurate but not enough to completely miss. I feel like just posting a video of it for proof but this thread hasn't really motivated me recently for anything like that again.

As for the Gunslash there isn't much of a noticeable affect of speed because it already is a fast weapon on the ground so i guess it can be ignored but again i was just showing the possibility of it. Same scenario with the Sword, i'd never use 8 slashes in the air unless i was attempting to fill my empty PP bar all in one go and the monster was in place for enough time, again just to show the possibility.

I think i've put enough effort into this thread, all i can say is just try it for the launcher and that will clear up all those questions and doubts for better or worse.



so did you work out waht are the actual timings in milliseconds?

no but i've posted comparison videos. As you can see it took 10 seconds for 7 shots with the Launcher on the ground, where as it took 15 seconds for 14 shots in the air. So the difference is noticeably large.

[Lostbob117]

I was disappointed with this reply since it started out convincing then just went downhill. You started by stating something i never intended (groundbreaking etc) and ofcourse for some it was natural to see how many attacks they can do in the air. I've never denied any of this yet people STILL discuss it. It's actually getting weird how people keep missing the point.

Again, to reiterate the point of this thread. I only made it to show how many shots were possible and proposing the idea that people should macro/learn it since it obviously does more damage. I never came here to discuss whether it is needed or not. Your argument is exactly like saying you don't need that extra Power III on weapons with Souls, things are dying too fast so what's the point? I can't believe i had to reply to so many posts similar to this and explain the same point over again.

I think the part about the 7 shots being useless is all nonsense. You can't come here and convince with words what has been working practically for me. I can hit the monsters at the back fine with all shots, the lower ones do become less accurate but not enough to completely miss. I feel like just posting a video of it for proof but this thread hasn't really motivated me recently for anything like that again.

As for the Gunslash there isn't much of a noticeable affect of speed because it already is a fast weapon on the ground so i guess it can be ignored but again i was just showing the possibility of it. Same scenario with the Sword, i'd never use 8 slashes in the air unless i was attempting to fill my empty PP bar all in one go and the monster was in place for enough time, again just to show the possibility.

I think i've put enough effort into this thread, all i can say is just try it for the launcher and that will clear up all those questions and doubts for better or worse.




no but i've posted comparison videos. As you can see it took 10 seconds for 7 shots with the Launcher on the ground, where as it took 15 seconds for 14 shots in the air. So the difference is noticeably large.

Ever heard of Standing Snipe?

[Yunfa]

I think this will all be over once we get the update next week. OP perhaps just has too much free time on his hands.

[Hansha]

I don't know if this thread is useless or not, or if these findings are necessarily common sense.

But I can tell you flat out that you'd get a better response if you had actually posted this in the guides section. People in the guides section are probably more inclined to care about specifics in game mechanics, even obscure stuff. In contrast, a lot of the people in general (this forum) already know the basic idea of what you're saying, and they don't really care about attacks per second or breakpoint or whatever you're looking into. It's not really news to them.

Exactly. Everyone knows this stuff so it isn't some new thing.
Let's add more reasons why people care for accuracy more than the constant flow of attacks.
As you know, you can fire with a just attack on the ground for another attack added to the 6 initial air ones. People instead ignore this attack and opt for jumping once again for their air attacks due to it being more accurate, and even that is unnecessary due to an enemy being dead. Then there are the times when enemies move to unfavorable positions or when they are getting close behind you and you need to reposition. Fewer shots work better in those situations.

7 shots are only useful in a handful of situations
1) When fighting a big enemy and you are too lazy to switch to another well known setup.
2) When fighting close range enemies so you don't need accuracy and if they somehow survive a few shots in the first place.
3) When not using PAs to quickly kill enemies.
4) When you are bored

70-80% of the time enemies die efficiently from 3-5 shots and PAs. The rest of the time involves all of those multiple situations we have been talking about in this thread. Btw, most ppl do 4-5 shots because the last few shots are too close to the ground.

I also like how you believe this is as important to do as affixing and grinding your weapon. It will never be that useful. The end of your opening post and the fact you made two separate threads on the same thing really shows how good you really think this 7-shot combo is. I'm here to tell you it is not necessary for any player to use for maximizing damage.

[Skyly HUmar]

I see where yure coming from crow, and I think that its cool that youre trying to help others.

2 things i wanna mention though, 1) dammage is reduced alot for swords in the air. I can usually hit a good 530 in the air with a JA, but on the ground i can hit as high as 800-840. Imo Combos with a sword can be good if you throw some airs in with it, but its not worth doing all air just because of the huge dammage difference.

and 2nd, even though youre doing this to help others, the knowledge is pretty common, i just dont think anyones made a topic about it because of how obvious it is. Hell, me and 3 friends figured all that out about 20 minutes into the game :P

[IzzyData]

2 things i wanna mention though, 1) dammage is reduced alot for swords in the air. I can usually hit a good 530 in the air with a JA, but on the ground i can hit as high as 800-840. Imo Combos with a sword can be good if you throw some airs in with it, but its not worth doing all air just because of the huge dammage difference.


I've never noticed this.. I'll have to test.

[Mystil]

Well air attacking protects you from a fairly decent range of enemy attacks. Especially attacks from behind.

[Skyly HUmar]

Well air attacking protects you from a fairly decent range of enemy attacks. Especially attacks from behind.

Thats one reason why i still use them dispite the power cut.

[Acel]

Im pretty sure Ive seen a video on Youtube showing you how to do 9 continuous launcher shots starting from the air. I believe the 7th round is the 1st of the standard 3 from the ground but everything flowed seemlessly together.

Regarding the sword air slashes, I do that a lot but the mobs like the flying Windera do not stay still very often to make it practical. Its better to just switch to Gunblade and Serpent Air -> Raging Dance -> Thrill explosion for a quick disposal before they fly away. But I totally agree that air slashes are faster than ground slashes for sword and are more useful because of the faster recovery which is why I rarely do any ground slashes except as a quick close follow up from Sonic Arrow only to dash cancel and into a jump slash from the back...