Chain Trigger for Gunner?

[MissMalice]

Firstly, let me say how happy I am to have PSO-W back! Now let's get down to business!

I'm thoroughly enjoying Gunner. I don't really see a lot of people playing the class, and I can understand why. But honestly, I don't see the harm in testing out the highest capabilities of the fighting style~ So for those of you that have more developed Gunners (I'm only level 14), my biggest question for you is:

Is Chain Trigger worth it?

I put only two dots in it to get a feel for it before I decided on if it was worth putting more points into it. I haven't gone any further into either sides of the tree so far. Personally, I don't really know what to think of it since I don't really know how useful it is at higher levels. I've ran into a few level 25+ Gunners but they were either afk or we were in the middle of an Emergency Mission. Anywho, just looking for some advice on Chain Trigger and anything about Gunner. The more I've played the class, I feel like I might be better off going for the left side of the tree. But I'd still like to hear some other opinions. c:

[Coatl]

I do 4-6k dmg (depending on the boss) with my PA when the count hits to around 40-50. I'd say it's worth it.
But that's just me.

[Courina]

very worth, especialy if you in 12/12 MP and a boss fell down on ya... as long you can maintain lock-on and keep hit the chain trigger spot, all other ppl who also whack that place gonna increase the count. and more count = more damage...
chain trigger is new way of WB!!! *has been kicked to sky*

now only question i have...since it related so i guess not oot... chain finish? how to use it?

[Sirius-91]

Pretty much what Coatl said, though it helps if there's someone playing RA to use WB for an even faster kill.

As for chain finish, it will use your PA to end it.

[Courina]

so uh... shoot chain trigger > do some count > PA for finisher?

[MissMalice]

Thanks for the replies, guys!

Yeah, I've been wondering about that Chain Finish too. So far my understanding of Chain Trigger is that you just use regular attacks on the locked-on point. Then you use a Photon Art [I'm guessing any PA will do?] to "finish".

Also, how many points do you think would be fine with CT? I have two in so far for a 140sec cooldown. Should I shoot for a lower cooldown? Was thinking of just leaving it at 3 points then go on further into the tree. c:

[Shugo17]

Without Chain Finish
Chain trigger> do some count > extra PA damage finisher

With Chain Finish
Chain Trigger> do some cound > even more PA damage finisher

This is based on what I've been told/seen. Not 100%, but yeah...

[Sirius-91]

so uh... shoot chain trigger > do some count > PA for finisher?

Yes, that's it.

Chain trigger seems to level up like Weak Bullet. So, lv 1, 3, 6 or 10 would be prefered.

[Courina]

seems only lowered the cooldown , -10sec each lv... doesnt seems add more Chain Trigger shoot

[Sp-24]

Yes, it only affects cooldown. Still, going from 2.5 minutes to 1 minute cooldown is just sweet.

[MissMalice]

seems only lowered the cooldown , -10sec each lv... doesnt seems add more Chain Trigger shoot

Yeah, that's a good point. I'll just leave it at level 3~ Even at level two, it cools down fast enough for me. Then again, its only a 10sec difference. xD

So, taking CT into mind: The chain count only adds up from normal attacks. But with Chain Finish and you use a PA, does it automatically end the chain count or just not counts towards the count, and you can continue adding to the chain count after the PA is over?

Sorry for the numerous questions. ^^;

[Sp-24]

The chain breaks after you do a PA or stop attacking the spot for a few seconds. And after that happens, you must wait for the cooldown to end to play with chains some more.

By the way, I wonder, has anybody got numbers for the Chain Finish skill?

[Courina]

i think any count will do, you just ended it with any pa as long it not cut cause stop atk or misfire other target...

also seems you forgiven if misfire other part of the same mobs (ex: shoot ragne on brain, misfire for body) as long not too long or counted stop atk, since im misfire some body part and still can continiue count up...

[methaniel]

The chain breaks after you do a PA or stop attacking the spot for a few seconds. And after that happens, you must wait for the cooldown to end to play with chains some more.

By the way, I wonder, has anybody got numbers for the Chain Finish skill?

I don't know for Chain Finish, but beware that chain Trigger can only stack up to 100 and will stop soon after, so use your PA just before

[Sp-24]

I don't know for Chain Finish, but beware that chain Trigger can only stack up to 100 and will stop soon after, so use your PA just before

Heh, thanks for the heads up. Seeing how it should take about 30-40 seconds to get to chain 100, maxing out Chain Trigger should let you spam overpowered PAs almost endlessly.

As for Chain Finish, one Japanese player kindly listed its stats at levels 1-8:

Lv 1 101%
Lv 2 102%
Lv 3 104%
Lv 4 106%
Lv 5 109%
Lv 6 112%
Lv 7 115%
Lv 8 120%
Lv 9 ?
Lv10 ?

This is not too shabby, but I'm still unsure. Do you guys think it's worth spending 13 SP on the numbers that you will see once per minute at most?

[ClothoBuer]

My take on Chain Trigger is 'invest according to use'. In my case, I save it as a boss-kill skill, so I don't use it that often and since the cooldown is the only thing higher levels change, I only invested one point in it. Chain Finish on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. Until we get some better info on just how much a max stack of Chains increases damage, I'm leery of spending points into a skill that at most likely gives a 25% boost. I myself am more interested in Attack PP Restorate and how much of a bonus that can yield.

[Sp-24]

It looks like your PA becomes 5 times stronger at chain 100. And attack modifier of Chain Finish seems to rise exponentially, so it should be at least 1.3 at level 10. Which means it should make your fully-powered PA go from 500% power to 650% (again, at least).

Attack PP Restorate doubles your PP recovery at level 10, which probably means that one bullet of a normal attack will recover 2 PP instead of one. That's kind of useful.

And after using my brain for a second there, I've realised that Show Time may not be all that useless, either. It speeds up Gear recovery AND it draws the enemies' attention from your Rafoie- and, as of the update, Zan- and Megid-spamming friend. Awesome?

[Gen2000]

I like the damage when you finish the chain but the cooldown is making me unsure of the skill investment wise. It seems to be all or nothing to get the most out of it. Wondering if it's better to just focus on Chain Finish and the two Advance Skills (Zero/Aerial) to get the most damage

[Sp-24]

Zero Distance is just pitiful - 1.15 modifier at level 10. Can't remember Don't know Aerial Advance's numbers, but I'm sure they aren't all that impressive, either, plus the skill itself is situational (though there is a machine gun PA that launches enemies in the air). Anyway, I don't think those two skills are any good.

Still, as long as we are choosing between leveling up Chain Trigger and Chain Finish, I'd say go with Trigger.

[Coatl]

I've realized that I've never tried this because I've been too busy going shooty pew pew with the new twin mechas. Can chain trigger be activated with an assault rifle? I am pretty sure getting a counter to 100 would be so much faster with an assault rifle. Once it hits 100, you'd switch to twin mechas for the PA finish since all of twin mechas PAs seem to have more burst damage than the rifle.

[Sp-24]

You can use Chain Trigger with any weapon, and even switch between them mid-chain, provided you (and your internet connection) are fast enough! Rifle combo only seems to deal 9 hits, as opposed to machineguns' 10, but I guess being able to move in any direction you want while shooting is also a valuable ability.

Quick edit: I've tested this on Dagan, so some 40% of shots may have missed the target spot. If rifle's full combo is 15 hits, then I guess it's pretty good for chains. But, then again, machineguns have a Gear skill that also powers up PAs...

[Gen2000]

Zero Distance is just pitiful - 1.15 modifier at level 10. Can't remember Don't know Aerial Advance's numbers, but I'm sure they aren't all that impressive, either, plus the skill itself is situational (though there is a machine gun PA that launches enemies in the air). Anyway, I don't think those two skills are any good.

Still, as long as we are choosing between leveling up Chain Trigger and Chain Finish, I'd say go with Trigger.

Oh bleh, I thought Aerial Advance increase damage as long as your character was in the air. Yeah totally not worth it if only affected by when enemies are in the air.

[MissMalice]

Oh bleh, I thought Aerial Advance increase damage as long as your character was in the air. Yeah totally not worth it if only affected by when enemies are in the air.

Yeah, it would've been nice considering how much we Rangers/Gunners love jumping and shooting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-nm7qjAUGE

/shot

Anywho. Here's all I have planned out for my build so far [based off the current skill tree (http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Gunner-Tree.png)]:

R-ATK Up 1: 3
Chain Trigger: 5
DEX Up: 5
Chain Finish: 10
Zero Range Advance: 5
Twin Machine Gun: 1
HP Up 1: 5
R-Def Up 1: 5

And that puts me at 39 points. I'm not exactly sure how Showtime works. The only description I have is: "Exclusively for Twin Machine Guns, for a set amount of time, in exchange for increasing the rate your gear increases, your hate increases."

I'm guessing Showtime is an "extension" of Twin Machine Gun Gear? If anyone has any opinions or info about those two skills, that'd be great~

[Sp-24]

Showtime lets you charge your Gear faster, and makes enemies hate you more. Not all that impressive, but not useless, either. Or rather, wouldn't have been useless if it wasn't stuffed so far down the skill tree.

Also, if I may, I'd suggest putting more points into Chain Trigger, even at the expense of Chain Finish. 110 seconds is VERY long, trust me. :)

[MissMalice]

Oh, so its basically a Taunt/Aggro-Grabber that tanking classes from other games have. Well, if I've learned anything on PSO, it is that Rangers aren't meant to be tankers. So, I definitely won't be going for Showtime or Twin Machine Guns~

R-ATK Up 1: 3
Chain Trigger: 10
DEX Up: 5
Chain Finish: 10
Zero Range Advance: 5
HP Up 1: 5

I suppose it couldn't hurt to bump up Chain Trigger to 10~ The point gotta go somewhere now. xD I may even try to get Zero Range up higher. I spend more time going close range attacks anyways~ Though, do you know if Zero Range affects PAs, Just Attacks, or both? Only description I could find was: "Damage increases when shooting close range." Sounds like it could be JA enhancement, but still, its not a bad route to go with when using CT.

[Sp-24]

Oh, so its basically a Taunt/Aggro-Grabber that tanking classes from other games have. Well, if I've learned anything on PSO, it is that Rangers aren't meant to be tankers. So, I definitely won't be going for Showtime or Twin Machine Guns~

R-ATK Up 1: 3
Chain Trigger: 10
DEX Up: 5
Chain Finish: 10
Zero Range Advance: 5
HP Up 1: 5

I suppose it couldn't hurt to bump up Chain Trigger to 10~ The point gotta go somewhere now. xD I may even try to get Zero Range up higher. I spend more time going close range attacks anyways~ Though, do you know if Zero Range affects PAs, Just Attacks, or both? Only description I could find was: "Damage increases when shooting close range." Sounds like it could be JA enhancement, but still, its not a bad route to go with when using CT.

Zero Range should affect JAs - I mean, JA is just a regular attack / PA / technique with a 1.2 multiplier. No idea if it only affects normal attacks, sorry, since all 5 PAs that I currently have are close-range. However, seeing how at least 2 other skill descriptions specifically mention simple attacks, while Zero Range Advance's doesn't, I guess that Zero Range Advance affects all kinds of attacks.

Also, please don't dismiss Machinegun gear! Since both chain and gear gauge are built up by simple attacks, you'll benefit much more from having a gear skill! (besides, you said you're going for Zero Range anyway) (also, some of the Machinegun PAs are devastating, even if slow)

I think that Attack PP Restorate is also worth checking out. I'm gonna do exactly that sometime later and see if it's good or not.

As for Chain Trigger, I wonder what would be a good level for it. 5 is definitely too low if you fight high-HP targets often. However, maybe my idea of putting 10 points into it would be going overboard, too, since a lot of enemies can die before the chain hits 50. But I'm probably going all the way regardless, so I guess we'll know the answer someday. :)

And it's just a theory, but I think that Showtime is a skill designed for teamwork first, with Gear bonus being a secondary effect. It doesn't fit into Gunner's "It's all about me" philosophy very well, sure, but it still would have probably been somewhat nice if getting it wasn't such a hassle and waste of skill points.

[plasism]

Hmm? Why is your dex 1 at 5 ranks? I thought you only needed 3 ranks to unlock the next skill?

[Geistritter]

[FONT="Century Gothic"]Oh, so its basically a Taunt/Aggro-Grabber that tanking classes from other games have. Well, if I've learned anything on PSO, it is that Rangers aren't meant to be tankers.

Except that's not what it is. It charges your gear faster, just at the "expense" of having enemies come after you more often, which isn't even really a problem; you almost have to try to get hit while using mechs. It's an offensive skill with the side effect of having increased enmity gain, not a taunt. If you fear enemies in this game, you're doin' it wrong.

You're also absolutely crazy if you don't get the Gear. Passing up free damage isn't the best way to go.

I regardless agree with Sp-24 that Showtime's not exactly worth having, given how far buried it is. One may be down there anyway on the way to PP Restorate (assuming one can stomach having the atrocious R-Def Up shoved down one's throat), but it's still anywhere between three and fourteen points probably better spent elsewhere.

[MissMalice]

Hmm? Why is your dex 1 at 5 ranks? I thought you only needed 3 ranks to unlock the next skill?

Nah, you need five. o.o If not, then oh well. 2 points wasted.


[SPOILER-BOX]
Except that's not what it is. It charges your gear faster, just at the "expense" of having enemies come after you more often, which isn't even really a problem; you almost have to try to get hit while using mechs. It's an offensive skill with the side effect of having increased enmity gain, not a taunt. If you fear enemies in this game, you're doin' it wrong.

You're also absolutely crazy if you don't get the Gear. Passing up free damage isn't the best way to go.

I regardless agree with Sp-24 that Showtime's not exactly worth having, given how far buried it is. One may be down there anyway on the way to PP Restorate (assuming one can stomach having the atrocious R-Def Up shoved down one's throat), but it's still anywhere between three and fourteen points probably better spent elsewhere.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Its not that I fear enemies. Its just... the way the description was worded made it seem like it was a Taunt~ Which if I wanted to be a tank, I probably would have just played a Hunter. o.o

Welp, it seems like I won't have to worry about Showtime. ^_^ At least not for a while~ Hm...

[SPOILER-BOX]
Zero Range should affect JAs - I mean, JA is just a regular attack / PA / technique with a 1.2 multiplier. No idea if it only affects normal attacks, sorry, since all 5 PAs that I currently have are close-range. However, seeing how at least 2 other skill descriptions specifically mention simple attacks, while Zero Range Advance's doesn't, I guess that Zero Range Advance affects all kinds of attacks.

Also, please don't dismiss Machinegun gear! Since both chain and gear gauge are built up by simple attacks, you'll benefit much more from having a gear skill! (besides, you said you're going for Zero Range anyway) (also, some of the Machinegun PAs are devastating, even if slow)

I think that Attack PP Restorate is also worth checking out. I'm gonna do exactly that sometime later and see if it's good or not.

As for Chain Trigger, I wonder what would be a good level for it. 5 is definitely too low if you fight high-HP targets often. However, maybe my idea of putting 10 points into it would be going overboard, too, since a lot of enemies can die before the chain hits 50. But I'm probably going all the way regardless, so I guess we'll know the answer someday. :)

And it's just a theory, but I think that Showtime is a skill designed for teamwork first, with Gear bonus being a secondary effect. It doesn't fit into Gunner's "It's all about me" philosophy very well, sure, but it still would have probably been somewhat nice if getting it wasn't such a hassle and waste of skill points.[/SPOILER-BOX]

I like your description of Gunners being fancy-pants showoffs. xD I thought about the Attack PP skill too. Though, I'm not sure how much it would actually help regenerate per level...

I'll add the point to gear and save the rest of my points for now. But so far, this is what my build is going to look like [but most likely going to change...]:

R-ATK Up 1: 3
Chain Trigger: 10
DEX Up: 5
Chain Finish: 10
Zero Range Advance: 5
Twin Machine Gun Gear: 1

And that puts me at 34 points. I probably would have kept the HP Up 1, but I'm not exactly sure how much deeper into this side of the tree I'll be going...

[Xaeris]

The R-Def boost isn't so bad. It at least contributes to equipping rare units. Now, having to take HP Up, that's some real BS right there. 5 points for 18 HP, yeah, that's a real bargain right there.

[methaniel]

I stacked R-Def near the mex on my ranger so I could equip the best units, and consider doing the same for Gunner (though I'm waiting a bit for level 40 to see my base stats at this time). I still have 50 levels left on my Mag, but as of right now, I don't want to use it so...

I'm actually also considering putting points in Aerial Advance since two of the PA I use constantly are PAs that launches the ennemies in the air, though the boost seems a bit weak even a level 10 (putting points in R-Atk seems more advantageous in every way...)

(And yeah HP Boost is crappy, I thought it would make us a bit tanky when I saw it in the skill tree but the amount of HP gained is just so ridiculous...)

Edit: By the way looking at the JP wikis, regarding the Chain Trigger Count stopping at 100, some people are thinking that even if the numbers won't change anymore the count still increases, some people seems to be testing it actually. Each time I reached 100 I would always use a PA fearing that it would disappear before my PA reaches it...

[Courina]

well yea, im already try that before got chain finish, after 100 count the blue circle last about 1-2 sec then vanishes immidiately... im using Dead Approach immidiately when it reach 90+ now...

[JeyKama]

Don't dismiss Zero Distance being "only" 15% at rank 10... With a 100 chain combo stack, you're doing upwards 500% PA damage, and since -most- of machine gun PAs require close range... it can be a very crazy multiplier.

The whole chain mechanic makes me rage super hard though, as most bosses are inaccessible to hit for huge amounts of time, and they like to do it -just- as I pop it.

[Coatl]

How good is attack PP restore? I already have mech gun gear, but getting to PP restore means I have to also get through a lot of stuff I don't want (ew HP e.e).

Just wanted to know if it was worth it.

[kkow]

yeaa... most things require a lockon. i think ill skip chaining skill...