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Mike
Oct 3, 2012, 01:36 AM
The page for the new update and video on it is up.
http://pso2.jp/players/update/20121010/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e482NaxVeaI

IzzyData
Oct 3, 2012, 01:38 AM
I see... subclassing.

Heat Haze
Oct 3, 2012, 01:39 AM
Link and video is appreciated.

Lets take a look here..

Mike
Oct 3, 2012, 01:41 AM
I see... subclassing.

Level 50, subclassing, very hard, rare bosses, Mr. Umbra, etc.

Macman
Oct 3, 2012, 01:42 AM
New PAs, too.

Xaeris
Oct 3, 2012, 01:44 AM
Those new photon arts. Let's see, we've got Indiana Jones, Omnislash...

Hentai_Kittie
Oct 3, 2012, 01:46 AM
wait.... is that for this update? or for next week? o.O

Seraphus
Oct 3, 2012, 01:46 AM
wait.... is that for this update? or for next week? o.O

Next week, the page is listed for 10/10/2012.

Rien
Oct 3, 2012, 01:46 AM
Over Ender for swords.

Ragrants.

All my want.

Macman
Oct 3, 2012, 01:49 AM
Dat level 50 cap. It'll feel good not to see EXP FULL on my ranger for a while again.

BIG OLAF
Oct 3, 2012, 01:50 AM
The rare variants of the enemies looks really cool. Hopefully they're stronger/faster than the normal variants.

Also, Mr. Umbra looks like he's straight out of a Studio Ghibli flick.

Oh, and new PAs. God yes.

Xaeris
Oct 3, 2012, 01:53 AM
I wonder what kind of BS Koffie is going to subject us to for subclassing capability...

IndigoNovember
Oct 3, 2012, 01:54 AM
Did Mr. Umbra do 840~ damage to a FOcaseal? Oh dear.

Edit:

I wonder what kind of BS Koffie is going to subject us to for subclassing capability...

On that note:
http://i2.pixiv.net/img20/img/arimakinen/30487353.jpg
source (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=30487353)

Translates to something like:

5 Snow Banther/Big Vahda/Quartz Dragon drops for Very Hard
255 native creature drops from each planet for Level Cap Increase
1 Ikutachi, 1 Aadiroo, and 1 Tarunaada for Sub Classes


(´・ω・`)

Mike
Oct 3, 2012, 02:01 AM
Did Mr. Umbra do 840~ damage to a FOcaseal? Oh dear.
The deal with Mr. Umbra is that you have to get on his good side. The video doesn't really explain how it works but if you mess up and make him angry, done by attacking him in the video, it looks like he'll turn in to that tornado and one hit you.

IndigoNovember
Oct 3, 2012, 02:02 AM
The deal with Mr. Umbra is that you have to get on his good side. The video doesn't really explain how it works but if you mess up and make him angry, done by attacking him in the video, it looks like he'll turn in to that tornado and one hit you.

Ah, interesting...

Xaeris
Oct 3, 2012, 02:03 AM
So, attacking him will fail the code?

...That's gonna have a worse fail rate than pre-nerf Avoid.

Sanada Yukimura
Oct 3, 2012, 02:03 AM
Oh my. this new update looks really good should be alot of fun. i hope too see alot of you guys.
By the way when is this maintenance over? anyone know?

IzzyData
Oct 3, 2012, 02:04 AM
1 Ikutachi, 1 Aadiroo, and 1 Tarunaada for Sub Classes



This better be a fucking joke.

Xaeris
Oct 3, 2012, 02:05 AM
I love that guy's strips.

HIT0SHI
Oct 3, 2012, 02:08 AM
With that Temjin Sufin' with the sword, i might just be a HU/FO or FI/HU!

Sanada Yukimura
Oct 3, 2012, 02:10 AM
Now that i think about it. If Mr. Umbra is an emergency code... There will always be that kid who thinks hes trolling and decides to piss him off so he can goon everyone. I know one thing ill be sitting far away if thats the case.

Drifting Fable
Oct 3, 2012, 02:12 AM
Imagine the possibilities.

Surfing Space Tuna :D

XionAsuka
Oct 3, 2012, 02:16 AM
This better be a fucking joke.

The picture itself looks like a joke/play on how aggravating it was for us to get the level cap/new classes. I don't think that's really the req. =p

But if it is, i'll be that guy in the pic for sure. I can do everything else, but eff rare swords.

Mike
Oct 3, 2012, 02:20 AM
So, attacking him will fail the code?

...That's gonna have a worse fail rate than pre-nerf Avoid.
I would have said everyone's first attempt at rescuing the Lilliputians from a Gilnas but whatever.

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=31719

So getting hit is the way to do it I guess?

Skye-Fox713
Oct 3, 2012, 02:28 AM
loving the new TMG and rifle pa's

IndigoNovember
Oct 3, 2012, 02:52 AM
This better be a fucking joke.

Of course it's a joke. Even if it wasn't, wait a few days/weeks and SEGA will nerf Kofii's Client Orders anyways ┐('~`;)┌ .

LinkKD
Oct 3, 2012, 02:53 AM
I wonder what weapon has that PA that the character goes indiana jones swinging from one ide to another

I could imagine it being wired lances, gunslash or daggers...im hoping not daggers though, didn't like how it looks tbh =w=

and damn that omnislash looks sexy D: ...but it's on...gunslash |: ...why couldn't it be on daggers?? ;_: ...oh well, I might try using gunslash just for that.

the video in this topic skips a part though, right? o.o it skips the new sword PAs for instance, at the end.

Rien
Oct 3, 2012, 03:42 AM
I wonder what weapon has that PA that the character goes indiana jones swinging from one ide to another

I could imagine it being wired lances, gunslash or daggers...im hoping not daggers though, didn't like how it looks tbh =w=

and damn that omnislash looks sexy D: ...but it's on...gunslash |: ...why couldn't it be on daggers?? ;_: ...oh well, I might try using gunslash just for that.

the video in this topic skips a part though, right? o.o it skips the new sword PAs for instance, at the end.

You mean the vertical swing like a tarzan?

Wired lances according to the icons for the PAs.

ShadowDragon28
Oct 3, 2012, 04:41 AM
The October "Big Updates" are being called "Call of Mortality" Pretty awesome name IMO.

valmont
Oct 3, 2012, 04:56 AM
and still no decent AoE PAs for TMGs..
*sigh*

CelestialBlade
Oct 3, 2012, 06:23 AM
New PAs look pretty nice, hoping we'll have some actual useful Mechgun PAs aside from Satellite Aim and Bullet Squall. Also liked seeing the return of Rifle Charge Shot II from PSPo2i.

That vid made me consider FI/GU all over again, though I question if having the ability to chain occasionally would outweigh the constant HU stat boosts and JA bonuses. Probably not but chaining would be more fun than constant damage buffs. We'll see.

Umbra's gonna mess some people up hardcore, I can already tell :lol:

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 06:55 AM
I don't know, I love dead approach, and the kicking one rocks too.

Agitated_AT
Oct 3, 2012, 07:02 AM
So what does evryone think abou the subclasses?

Personally I think it's a terrible idea and I don't know if i should use it. Why is a game's balance on such low priority is what i wonder. Not even blizzard has an easy time balancing individual classes, let alone sub classes. Well ok its not a bad idea, but it should be implemented with care imo.

I dunno but things like this bother me to such a degree that I quit playing

goldwing
Oct 3, 2012, 07:20 AM
Blade dances woot. Tho they dont look all that awesome. Im hyped for the rarez we will get from vh and to top it off bosses. Wootness.

Enforcer MKV
Oct 3, 2012, 07:35 AM
Well, I'm happy with a lot of this stuff. I'll have to test sub classes out when I get the chance.

That WL PA which has you swinging around is cool. I better see you using that, Cornelia. XD

And....that second Twin Mechgun PA....they actually have a non-lame Shooting PA for mechs now! Yaaaaaaaaay~ I might use them now. /o/

V.hard....I'd like to see more enemy variance besides rare bosses...and more than just a palette swap. I'm just saying - that might help with the feeling of staleness a little. Rare bosses do give us something to look forward to, though. Hopefully they're more powerful, as Olaf suggested. But the normal enemies...*shrugs* I dunno, maybe new looks for Ultimate? Please Sega?

Ezodagrom
Oct 3, 2012, 07:40 AM
Rare bosses do give us something to look forward to, though. Hopefully they're more powerful, as Olaf suggested.

Within this difficulty you’ll also see different colored “rare bosses.” These are much stronger than normal bosses. You can even acquire items that drop exclusively from them.
http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2jp-subclasses-arrive-october-10th-2012/

Enforcer MKV
Oct 3, 2012, 07:43 AM
http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2jp-subclasses-arrive-october-10th-2012/

Ah, excellent, I was just about to go to bumped and check. Thank you for that, my good man.

EDIT:....Woah, a Pile! There's a Pile Wired Lance!.....

....I should run before Cornelia tries to poke me with that. O__o *Exit: Damn quick.*

Arika
Oct 3, 2012, 07:55 AM
This is the most rapid updated MMO I ever seen. I wonder if they will be able to make schedule this tight for next year too.

SPOnion
Oct 3, 2012, 08:02 AM
Well, Warcry with AoE seems better on a Hu/Te or Te/Hu I suppose, they will have ridiculous s defense with guard stance and all the buffs and heals...

Omega-z
Oct 3, 2012, 08:40 AM
Mr. Umbra's gift could be that God Rod since it's in the data-mining pic's on one of the wiki's sites. And maybe an All-Type weapon?

Mike
Oct 3, 2012, 08:42 AM
I'm not sure if this deserves it's own topic or not but there are some other changes coming to PSO2 with this update. From the official blog (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11370519420.html):
Rooms that have existed for over four hours will no longer spawn enemies nor will rooms nearing four hours (at 3 hours & 30 minutes) be accepting new parties.
Vendor prices for weapons and units will be falling to "combat inflation."
Vendor prices for single star weapons and items will be raised.
10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way.
Level 11 disks will not be tradeable in any way.
7 Star or greater weapons will now drop with elements in the 20~45 range while tekked items will 25~50 range.
Boss will drop more meseta when they drop meseta (this doesn't mean they'll drop more meseta but the value of the meseta they drop will increase).
Eventually, the amount of meseta needed to grind weapons will be decreased

EvilMag
Oct 3, 2012, 08:51 AM
I'm not sure if this deserves it's own topic or not but there are some other changes coming to PSO2 with this update. From the official blog (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11370519420.html):
Rooms that have existed for over four hours will no longer spawn enemies nor will rooms nearing four hours (at 3 hours & 30 minutes) be accepting new parties.
Vendor prices for weapons and units will be falling to "combat inflation."
Vendor prices for single star weapons and items will be raised.
10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way.
Level 11 disks will not be tradeable in any way.
7 Star or greater weapons will now drop with elements in the 20~45 range while tekked items will 25~50 range.
Boss will drop more meseta when they drop meseta (this doesn't mean they'll drop more meseta but the value of the meseta they drop will increase).
So you can't trade 10 star or higher weapons? That's fucking dumb.

Also lowering the amount of meseta you get for NPCing crappy weapons and units is also stupid.

Z-0
Oct 3, 2012, 09:01 AM
So all this meseta I've been farming to be able to buy 10 star weaponry is all useless? (Well, not all of it, but kind of in a sense; gonna have A LOT left over) PSP2 V2 trading system, joy.

Any particular reason long-existing rooms will stop spawning enemies? I heard it causes lag or something, but I have no idea.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Oct 3, 2012, 09:04 AM
Also lowering the amount of meseta you get for NPCing crappy weapons and units is also stupid.I dunno. The idea of equips/weapons being subject to in-universe inflation sounds like it could lead to a decrease or increase in sell value.

Fatal-Killer
Oct 3, 2012, 09:10 AM
So all this meseta I've been farming to be able to buy 10 star weaponry is all useless? (Well, not all of it, but kind of in a sense; gonna have A LOT left over) PSP2 V2 trading system, joy.

Any particular reason long-existing rooms will stop spawning enemies? I heard it causes lag or something, but I have no idea.


Usually when a map has gone on for long enough, people will start getting memory errors. (Mostly happens in caves)

darkante
Oct 3, 2012, 09:21 AM
Man, hearing about vendor prices dropping makes me hope it´s not too severe.
I really like that you can get at least some money outta useless items being a freeplayer.

dablacksephiroth
Oct 3, 2012, 09:28 AM
Zis is vunderful newz!

Zis means I zon't haf su 'mine'lessly fawm moneyz su git mai nest cawstyoom! YAY!

3 more weeks of freedom!

CelestialBlade
Oct 3, 2012, 09:32 AM
So, what, Sega destroying the player market by making all AC items usable in the Recycle Shop wasn't enough? Now they're going to make it even harder to get AC items in shops by reducing our ability to earn Meseta? Bunch of money-grubbing assbags....I wouldn't have a problem buying into your cash system if it wasn't rigged and stupid as hell, Sega.

There's no other reason they'd do that but to continue to coerce people into buying AC. Pisses me the fuck off.

BIG OLAF
Oct 3, 2012, 09:34 AM
I'm not sure if this deserves it's own topic or not but there are some other changes coming to PSO2 with this update. From the official blog (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11370519420.html):
Rooms that have existed for over four hours will no longer spawn enemies nor will rooms nearing four hours (at 3 hours & 30 minutes) be accepting new parties.
Vendor prices for weapons and units will be falling to "combat inflation."
Vendor prices for single star weapons and items will be raised.
10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way.
Level 11 disks will not be tradeable in any way.
7 Star or greater weapons will now drop with elements in the 20~45 range while tekked items will 25~50 range.
Boss will drop more meseta when they drop meseta (this doesn't mean they'll drop more meseta but the value of the meseta they drop will increase).
Eventually, the amount of meseta needed to grind weapons will be decreased

Talk about a kick in the dick to the only decent way to make money/farm EXP (besides having a shop, I know). Some of the things on the list are good news, though.

jooozek
Oct 3, 2012, 09:37 AM
So are they going to start selling rare item droprate boosters directly or add them to ac scratch? :wacko::grin::wacko::grin::wacko:

DoubleCannon
Oct 3, 2012, 09:38 AM
Well going by this update, for those that may have gone and farmed alot of meseta to say buy a 10* .. you can always just invest that money into grinders as we all know just how brutal doo-doo is going to be making you grind a 10* to +10...

Yes i just went there lol.

Resanoca
Oct 3, 2012, 09:41 AM
"10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way." ...so we can't sell them?

Crysteon
Oct 3, 2012, 09:43 AM
Rooms that have existed for over four hours will no longer spawn enemies nor will rooms nearing four hours (at 3 hours & 30 minutes) be accepting new parties.
Vendor prices for weapons and units will be falling to "combat inflation."
Vendor prices for single star weapons and items will be raised.
10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way.
Level 11 disks will not be tradeable in any way.
7 Star or greater weapons will now drop with elements in the 20~45 range while tekked items will 25~50 range.
Boss will drop more meseta when they drop meseta (this doesn't mean they'll drop more meseta but the value of the meseta they drop will increase).
Eventually, the amount of meseta needed to grind weapons will be decreased

1.- I think that's their way to say: we dont know how to implement an efficient garbage collector algorithm to clean maps in order to prevent mass loads.

2 and 3 .- I dont see a problem with that.

4.- Way to go, Sega! What's going to be the point of market now? Will it be reduced to just buy/sell crappy weaponry and FUN/AC scratch junk?

5.- That's pretty much stupid.

6.- That's a really bad way to release the load of Synthetizers, really....but it's not something that worries me at all.

7.- I can see this as some sort of countermeasure against MPA spamming.

8.- Instead of decreasing the meseta, increase the success rates ffs!

Z-0
Oct 3, 2012, 09:43 AM
Well going by this update, for those that may have gone and farmed alot of meseta to say buy a 10* .. you can always just invest that money into grinders as we all know just how brutal doo-doo is going to be making you grind a 10* to +10...

Yes i just went there lol.
What if you, er, have no shop?
What if grinders actually go down due to the combat against inflation?

It's all a gamble really, and I 'd rather not risk it.

Zorafim
Oct 3, 2012, 09:57 AM
Eh... I hope they know what they're doing with that whole inflation thing (which, by track record, they probably don't). Anyone who hasn't saved up money from before the update will have a very difficult time affording anything for a while, while anyone who has and waits a while will own the market.

Besides that though, this seems like a good day for anyone who doesn't have a shop. People can't get rich quick by finding an incredible item and selling it. This will make said item more impressive to see, since you know they didn't just buy it. And since it's not tradable, they can make it relatively common without fear of it being all over the place. Same with high level PA disks.

I do like that old rooms will be cleared out occasionally. It'll create more rooms, allowing more people to get into full rooms. It probably won't make a huge difference, but it might be nice.
And the added boss meseta drops is nice, too. It was really annoying to kill a boss and see 9 meseta. Hopefully, the rewards will be more in line to the amount of effort put into killing it.

...

Did I just see Chelsea get mad? I never thought I'd see the day!

dablacksephiroth
Oct 3, 2012, 10:08 AM
Guess I spoke too soon.

I assume we'll drop from 140k/hr to 60k/hr.

<_<;; In some hilarious notes, looks like I might be getting a few more views in them there lame ass tutorials we did, starting next week! Ahaha!

/hide!

EvilMag
Oct 3, 2012, 10:13 AM
So, what, Sega destroying the player market by making all AC items usable in the Recycle Shop wasn't enough? Now they're going to make it even harder to get AC items in shops by reducing our ability to earn Meseta? Bunch of money-grubbing assbags....I wouldn't have a problem buying into your cash system if it wasn't rigged and stupid as hell, Sega.

There's no other reason they'd do that but to continue to coerce people into buying AC. Pisses me the fuck off.

Couldn't have said it better than myself.

Agitated_AT
Oct 3, 2012, 10:16 AM
I'm not sure if this deserves it's own topic or not but there are some other changes coming to PSO2 with this update. From the official blog (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11370519420.html):
Rooms that have existed for over four hours will no longer spawn enemies nor will rooms nearing four hours (at 3 hours & 30 minutes) be accepting new parties.
Vendor prices for weapons and units will be falling to "combat inflation."
Vendor prices for single star weapons and items will be raised.
10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way.
Level 11 disks will not be tradeable in any way.
7 Star or greater weapons will now drop with elements in the 20~45 range while tekked items will 25~50 range.
Boss will drop more meseta when they drop meseta (this doesn't mean they'll drop more meseta but the value of the meseta they drop will increase).
Eventually, the amount of meseta needed to grind weapons will be decreased
Enemies on Normal and Hard more aggressive accordingly to the levels One can dream right

Zyrusticae
Oct 3, 2012, 10:22 AM
Reducing the money supply means those AC items will also eventually drop in price, you know (or just stop increasing in price altogether), since the money supply will be dwindling.

I don't see the point of complaining about it, ESPECIALLY when the inflation has been so horrible that prices for "themed" outfits has jumped from 1m meseta to 4m so quickly (though granted, it may be a fluke in that the red miko outfit commands four times greater demand than every other outfit before it... but that's a stretch).

Players that are already rich are obviously going to benefit from this... but they're already rich, so, y'know, no point complaining about that.

What I find more interesting is the disks being untradeable past level 10. Going to have to do some major hunting for those, I guess. I really want to see how level 11 techs look, it's going to be crazy considering how screen-filling level 1-10 techs already are...

Mike
Oct 3, 2012, 10:29 AM
Any particular reason long-existing rooms will stop spawning enemies? I heard it causes lag or something, but I have no idea.
The reasons given are that staying in a single area forever defeats the purpose of having random fields, reduces the chance of having a one-in-a-lifetime kind of meeting with other players, and creates a gap between players with lots of time to play and little time to play. It also contributes to the cycle of inflation.


"10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way." ...so we can't sell them?
Nope. You can't sell or trade them to other players.


What if you, er, have no shop?
Sega wants you to buy a shop from them. Of course, the bone people with one by not allowing 10 stars to be tradeable.


So are they going to start selling rare item droprate boosters directly or add them to ac scratch? :wacko::grin::wacko::grin::wacko:
Aren't they already in the AC scratch?

EDIT:
Any inflation in AC items is completly Sega's fault. Allowing AC items to be sellable in player shops is a huge problem.

Heat Haze
Oct 3, 2012, 10:37 AM
10* items won't be tradeable? That's lame.

Also not liking the changes to the vendor items; but I can hope it lowers prices on the market as a result.

Griffin
Oct 3, 2012, 10:40 AM
Well shet. I really hope shoppers don't keep their AC costume prices too high now. Not too big a deal for me since I already grabbed the most expensive thing I wanted. I don't buy rare weapons and armor. It is so much more fun and rewarding finding them yourself. I should be able to grab some headphones either way since I am close anyway.

Edit: Didn't Sega mention rares wouldn't be tradeable at some point before launch? I think we should have expected that, even though some rares can be traded. So I look at it as grace and mercy.

Zyrusticae
Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 AM
EDIT:
Any inflation in AC items is completly Sega's fault. Allowing AC items to be sellable in player shops is a huge problem.
Well, there's a multitude of factors here. Drop rates in the scratches, number of people buying stuff and putting them on market, the size of the money supply, demand for the items people are putting up...

I'm not sure why just allowing them to be sold is a huge problem, particularly since it is the only way to get new clothing atm (unless you're saying they should be sold in NPC shops like in PSU? I wouldn't be opposed to that!).

I just wonder if the prices will eventually go so bad (due to demand, inflation, or just plain ol' lack of supply) that SEGA is forced to take drastic action... preferably action that involves selling items individually instead of in a freakin' random draw. Groan, mumble, mutter, mutter...

Eternal255
Oct 3, 2012, 10:44 AM
So what does evryone think abou the subclasses?

Personally I think it's a terrible idea and I don't know if i should use it. Why is a game's balance on such low priority is what i wonder. Not even blizzard has an easy time balancing individual classes, let alone sub classes. Well ok its not a bad idea, but it should be implemented with care imo.

I dunno but things like this bother me to such a degree that I quit playing

What balance? It's PSO... not some PVPing mmorpg. who cares about balance. PSO1 never even took as long to kill mobs as it does in here already. And forces were absolutely useless too.

I think the sub classes are absolutely awesome, finally gonna be able to play fighter with techer. I didnt like the pre-chosen class/subclass concept of PSU, this on the other hand is awesome.



and damn that omnislash looks sexy D: ...but it's on...gunslash |: ...why couldn't it be on daggers?? ;_: ...oh well, I might try using gunslash just for that.


I'm actually glad its on gunslash and not daggers, i already have a good setup with daggers i dont wanna have to change the PA's around, and also it would let me do something with the 20 Jareid's i have in my bank



10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way.


You're shittin me? Damn it, guess that means I'll never find one knowing my luck. Least not one I need.

Either way, I'm both looking forward, and not, to this patch. I love all the new features, but I already spend enough time playing this game xD

CelestialBlade
Oct 3, 2012, 10:54 AM
I just wonder if the prices will eventually go so bad (due to demand, inflation, or just plain ol' lack of supply) that SEGA is forced to take drastic action... preferably action that involves selling items individually instead of in a freakin' random draw. Groan, mumble, mutter, mutter...
I've got a seat here open at the Gacha Rage table, come join me. I'd be okay if clothing was friggin $30 per piece, just let me buy what I want. I refuse to contribute any further into the current highway-robbery, it just keeps getting worse. Love this game otherwise, but seriously, this gacha stuff needs to fall off a cliff and explode.

Eternal255
Oct 3, 2012, 11:05 AM
I think all these new changes are gonna make me hold of on buying premium for now. I wanna see how the market stabilizes in the coming weeks before spending some cash. Though i dont think it will be too bad.

And also, I agree with Zorafim, I think the untradable 10*+ items is a great idea. Makes it so that when you see one of these weapons you can think "damn, that lucky bastard"

and really, how often do u buy a new rare weapon from the market anyway? i donno about you but i spend more money buying 1-5* items with abilities trying to get my flouga to have 2+ abilities that are actually useful -.-

I should probably spend this week farming as much meseta as i can and put leveling techer on hold for now.

Agitated_AT
Oct 3, 2012, 11:15 AM
What balance? It's PSO... not some PVPing mmorpg. who cares about balance. PSO1 never even took as long to kill mobs as it does in here already. And forces were absolutely useless too.

I think the sub classes are absolutely awesome, finally gonna be able to play fighter with techer. I didnt like the pre-chosen class/subclass concept of PSU, this on the other hand is awesome.



It’s not about PVP. It’s about equal attractiveness of classes and class combinations. Now the game wasn’t very balanced with 1 class to begin with so I hoped they would put their priority on that, but it seems balance isn’t their first priority.

Balance is a key element to any game. When the game is not balanced then it is simply broken. Balance doesn’t just mean balance among the players, but it also means balance between you and the enemies. If the enemies are a cakewalk than that obviously means the game is unbalanced in the sense of the players being too overpowered in comparison to the enemies. Now tell me with a straight face that a gunner/ranger isn’t going to be an overpowered class.

Anyway i’ll defenitly admit that being powerful doesn’t equal having fun. Another class may be alot more fun to play with so people’s choice would go to those picks as well, but it would have been better if all classes were equally attractive when it comes to power.

Triple_S
Oct 3, 2012, 11:37 AM
And also, I agree with Zorafim, I think the untradable 10*+ items is a great idea. Makes it so that when you see one of these weapons you can think "damn, that lucky bastard"

and really, how often do u buy a new rare weapon from the market anyway?

Very often.

I'm that guy who never found a common DB Saber in PSO.

DoubleCannon
Oct 3, 2012, 11:39 AM
And also, I agree with Zorafim, I think the untradable 10*+ items is a great idea. Makes it so that when you see one of these weapons you can think "damn, that lucky bastard"


I agree. To be honest I am happy to be forced to have to hunt for what I want instead of the whole pay to own the best gear. PSO was all about that farming your butt off to get the top notch gear, however SJS for me was just redonk lol.

I dont know about you guys but I am going to have great satisfaction when I manage to find my OWN Demolition comet! Why? Because that is my bragging rights, and I would not have to worry about the, oh you just probably bought that and claim it as yours, how do "WE" know you did not just buy it? Yes I do love the concept of working on hunting rares and not just buying them.

I will just blow my money on ability add's from buying 1-5* rares with abilities I want and blow my money grinding. There is still great reason to be rich right now as it can cost a lot just to make the perfect gear. So this is okay with me.

My shops can still make a great profit up to 9* rares remember, and 8-9* rares still got nice value to them.

Arika
Oct 3, 2012, 11:51 AM
So, what, Sega destroying the player market by making all AC items usable in the Recycle Shop wasn't enough? Now they're going to make it even harder to get AC items in shops by reducing our ability to earn Meseta? Bunch of money-grubbing assbags....I wouldn't have a problem buying into your cash system if it wasn't rigged and stupid as hell, Sega.

There's no other reason they'd do that but to continue to coerce people into buying AC. Pisses me the fuck off.

Not really, AC clothes is one of the thing that always have price to go with meseta value.

Says, in the past most expensive AC dress would be 500k max.
Next update, people become richer, most expensive yukata is 1.5 mil
Next update, people become richer, most expensive swimwear is 2 mil
Next update, people become richer, most expensive office wear is 3 mil
Last update, people become richer again, most expensive miku wear is 4 mil.


Basically, if people are rich generally, then AC items will become expensive, and if people are poor generally, then AC item will become cheaper. And if you have those old clothes, there value will always increase just like gold.

Alenoir
Oct 3, 2012, 11:53 AM
One of the reasons(?) Sakai gave for doing the 10*+ items not being tradeable was that people have complained about not feeling accomplished when they find a rare. Zorafim and the others pretty much just proved that point.

Arika
Oct 3, 2012, 11:57 AM
Anyway, I can see that MPA goal will become mainly for exp now. For the real rare hunting, people gonna either boss rush, or do any quest that has the higher % of that mob spawn. (free map usually have low pop rate to some monsters)

NoiseHERO
Oct 3, 2012, 11:58 AM
I dunno...

At first I was against the idea of rares being untradable. But it would be nice to actually WANT to hunt something you want for yourself.

But at the same time... With this game's drop rates...

I'm not sure if I should look forward to wanting a 10* weapon.

Anyway...

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGG AT THIS GUNSLASH!!!

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GenerationMichaeru/Untitled-1_zpsaba771d2.png

BIG OLAF
Oct 3, 2012, 12:02 PM
But at the same time... With this game's drop rates...

That's what I was thinking, too. With super-high-end rares being untradable and unsellable, some people are never going to get their hands on one, what with PSO2's 1/35843394290389 chance of getting a red drop.


HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGG AT THIS GUNSLASH!!!

From what I can see on the Google Doc spreadsheets, there's a double saber version of it, too.

Arika
Oct 3, 2012, 12:02 PM
Well..... If you got 10* weapon for a class that you can't use... that gonna be a huge shinny trash on your storage then?

I guess this force people to try all class. since you can't really concentrate in hunting just 1-class rare anymore. Normally you can choose how to spend your money.. Not this time tho.

Astarin
Oct 3, 2012, 12:08 PM
I'm not sure if this deserves it's own topic or not but there are some other changes coming to PSO2 with this update. From the official blog (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11370519420.html):

Vendor prices for weapons and units will be falling to "combat inflation."
Vendor prices for single star weapons and items will be raised.


There seems to be a lot of uproar over this... maybe I'm misunderstanding, but does this mean the prices for selling weapons and units is dropping, or does it mean that weapons and units are becoming cheaper to buy at the shops? It seems a little ambiguously worded, possibly due to translation. Can anyone clarify?

To me, it says that things are getting cheaper to buy at the shops, which is a good thing, but I could be misunderstanding. Also, if the prices for single star weapons is increasing, then maybe it will balance out the other price decrease...? (this is all speculation from someone who's following the JP game, but hasn't played yet, for the record)

Crysteon
Oct 3, 2012, 12:14 PM
Well..... If you got 10* weapon for a class that you can't use... that gonna be a huge shinny trash on your storage then?


That's my biggest concern regarding me being totally against untradeable 10*+ rares. Knowing how this game loves to troll me with its horrid drop rates, I stopped having my hopes high on having top gears, which would totally affect my performance and efficiency to horrendous levels. I'm not eager to spend 100 hours hunting a single item when it's easier to purchase it from someone who had better luck and timing to get it than me. Imagine me finding a Psycho Wand when I dont ever intend to touch Force seriously....I'd rather sell or trade it to a friend who plays that type; applying that account bounding pretty much leaves me with a useless item that will either end up wasting a spot in my storage or being NPCd.

What's the point of that self-accomplisment bullcrap here anyway? The game itself dares you to hunt new items constantly, so self-accomplisment by finding "something" is pretty much irrelevant and a snobbish attitude.

Eternal255
Oct 3, 2012, 12:23 PM
I agree. To be honest I am happy to be forced to have to hunt for what I want instead of the whole pay to own the best gear. PSO was all about that farming your butt off to get the top notch gear, however SJS for me was just redonk lol.

Thats exactly what i thought too. In PSO1 you farmed the same quest a million times until you find a red box... only to find out its a photon drop. Took me six years to get my first and only RR on PSOBB (yeah seriously). Of course in PSO1 you also had the leveling grind to cover two, so it was too birds with one stone (grinding while farming), which is what i hope they eventually do with this game (make it so you have to grind the last 20 levels out, but being level 80 vs 100 is only a difference in some stats, for example).

I liked that I could just buy my weapon (Cruel flouga TD) but it also took away from the farming element. I thought, "Why spend 100 hours farming for clouga, when i could spend 5 hours to get the meseta required to buy it?"

and sure enough i did. but now im at the point where i have my weapon and armor, so all i got to do now is maximize my class levels and then farm more meseta to affix abilities, etc. but with this factor, maybe itll make it so more people MPA more areas, hunting for specific drops instead of everyone just being in FC farming meseta.

That 4 hour limit wouldnt take away much either becuz, well i donno about you, but i never spend near that amount of time consecutively farming one area, always do something else then go back later

Mega Ultra Chicken
Oct 3, 2012, 12:28 PM
PSO was all about that farming your butt off to get the top notch gear, however SJS for me was just redonk lol.

When you put it like that... the whole 10*+ item=Soulbound deal actually sounds kinda awesome. Just like old times, isn't it? ...Except now it has FOcasts, skill trees, and a tinge of PSU.

Eternal255
Oct 3, 2012, 12:33 PM
That's my biggest concern regarding me.....which would totally affect my performance and efficiency to horrendous levels.

Keep in mind though, they are gonna be adding 6* weapons as well. Which as we can compare, the 5* items of the current patch are comparable to the 9* items. So your performance likely wont be hindered, merely which weapon you prefer to use (and really, your 6* item will probably be stronger than your 10* becuz, well have fun getting a 10* to +10)

And you can still buy a 9* item, which likely wont be more than ~50 X-atk weaker than the 10 star items. Not to mention affixing abilities will be cheaper on 9* over 10*, etc etc

Alenoir
Oct 3, 2012, 12:35 PM
Well..... If you got 10* weapon for a class that you can't use... that gonna be a huge shinny trash on your storage then?

The blog entry mentioned something along the lines of "we're looking into ways for you to waste your extra rares that you can't trade."


この変更により、ユーザー間取引禁止アイテムの余剰増加が懸念されますので、「NPCショップへの売却」以 外の活用方法も検討してまいります。

Arika
Oct 3, 2012, 12:38 PM
That's my biggest concern regarding me being totally against untradeable 10*+ rares. Knowing how this game loves to troll me with its horrid drop rates, I stopped having my hopes high on having top gears, which would totally affect my performance and efficiency to horrendous levels. I'm not eager to spend 100 hours hunting a single item when it's easier to purchase it from someone who had better luck and timing to get it than me. Imagine me finding a Psycho Wand when I dont ever intend to touch Force seriously....I'd rather sell or trade it to a friend who plays that type; applying that account bounding pretty much leaves me with a useless item that will either end up wasting a spot in my storage or being NPCd.

What's the point of that self-accomplisment bullcrap here anyway? The game itself dares you to hunt new items constantly, so self-accomplisment by finding "something" is pretty much irrelevant and a snobbish attitude.

Completely agree!
there are a few JP in the blog that Mike link complain about this too, I hope that they gonna change this if enough of the JP complaining on this system. There is nothing really fix yet in this game anyway. Things will change according to survey. When there is next survey coming, I hope everybody write that you really dislike how 10* is trade-able.

For the mime, I think SEGA see how Monster Hunter is so successful, and are trying to follow that game system. In that game all of your equipment are from your own hunting only too.

The problem is.. in Monster Hunter, if you keep spaming the same boss over and over with the correct method, you will collect enough parts to make gears eventually, because the drop rate isn't so rare... (the rarest gem from dragon are usually around 1/100 according to MH wiki.) Unlike this game where rare could be 1/10000 ...




And you can still buy a 9* item, which likely wont be more than ~50 X-atk weaker than the 10 star items. Not to mention affixing abilities will be cheaper on 9* over 10*, etc etc

Well, they says all 10* + are untradeable, it is not just 10*.
The different between 5* to 9* may be similar to 6* to 10* so it is bearable to use it. However, when there are 11*, 12*, 13* come. it is going to be like PSPo2 and PSPo2I (same producer anyway). In the end, every gear you use are what you find. 1-9* is going to become totally unusable in the long run! Just like how every lv 200 PSPo2/PSPo2I users are all full body with 12*+ rare.

Crysteon
Oct 3, 2012, 12:40 PM
Keep in mind though, they are gonna be adding 6* weapons as well. Which as we can compare, the 5* items of the current patch are comparable to the 9* items. So your performance likely wont be hindered, merely which weapon you prefer to use (and really, your 6* item will probably be stronger than your 10* becuz, well have fun getting a 10* to +10)

And you can still buy a 9* item, which likely wont be more than ~50 X-atk weaker than the 10 star items. Not to mention affixing abilities will be cheaper on 9* over 10*, etc etc

Honestly, I highly doubt 6*s are going to beat any of the top 9*s at this point. Of course, some 9*s will drop in price for a fair amount if 10*s prove to be stronger, but seeing how elemental % works in this game, there is not much point on maximizing a 9* just to barely match an item that is better naturally as a 10* itself....unless you are conformist.

Cry0
Oct 3, 2012, 12:41 PM
question (don't know if it's yet hypothetical).

If we main HU and sub FI: and in the hunter tree we invest nothign in step advance, but in fighter we fully load it, do we get the fully loaded step advance, or not?

I'm really curious for this.

Eternal255
Oct 3, 2012, 12:46 PM
Well..... If you got 10* weapon for a class that you can't use... that gonna be a huge shinny trash on your storage then?


Maybe 10* items will be all class? :D

Doubtful but would be nice. Or at least multi class on some (ie melee weapons on hunter/fighter, guns on ranger/gunner)

Crimson Exile
Oct 3, 2012, 12:49 PM
Lol I almost bought AC just to get a shop. But it seems pointless now seeing as I can't sell 10* and up weapons/units

Eternal255
Oct 3, 2012, 12:55 PM
Honestly, I highly doubt 6*s are going to beat any of the top 9*s at this point. Of course, some 9*s will drop in price for a fair amount if 10*s prove to be stronger, but seeing how elemental % works in this game, there is not much point on maximizing a 9* just to barely match an item that is better naturally as a 10* itself....unless you are conformist.

There are 5* items that are 30-50 X-atk away from a maximized 9* item right now [alva cane vs cornellia, for example, cost 10k vs 4mil, and alva t-edge vs cruel flouga, all are 50 atk away from their 9*). I dont see why 6*'s wouldnt be the same or beat em the way this game is set up. Keep in mind, you gotta account for grinding likelyhood as well. I have no +10 7*+ items (though my flouga is +9, i just dont wanna risk that last one xD) but i could probably get a 6*+10 to be as strong as my flouga is now, if not really really close.

And by the time 11* 12* items come out, im sure theyll change things around a bit. maybe make 10*'s tradable as they introduce 11* and so on. Who knows, maybe on ultimate mode itll be much easier to find a 10*.


Lol I almost bought AC just to get a shop. But it seems pointless now seeing as I can't sell 10* and up weapons/units

I thought the same thing. I still will, though. Not like I would ever find a 10* item i would sell anyway. I'm just waiting to see how the market settles after the price adjustments for inflation.

CelestialBlade
Oct 3, 2012, 01:01 PM
There are 5* items that are 30-50 X-atk away from a maximized 9* item right now [alva cane vs cornellia, for example, cost 10k vs 4mil, and alva t-edge vs cruel flouga, all are 50 atk away from their 9*). I dont see why 6*'s wouldnt be the same or beat em the way this game is set up. Keep in mind, you gotta account for grinding likelyhood as well. I have no +10 7*+ items (though my flouga is +9, i just dont wanna risk that last one xD) but i could probably get a 6*+10 to be as strong as my flouga is now, if not really really close.
My thoughts exactly. I'll take my 5* Double Saber with 23 Light, Vol Soul, and Power II over dropping several mil on an equivalent Quartz Caliber any day, when you consider the maximum QC breaks away is no more than 50 S-ATK, which is definitely not worth a couple mil. Like I've been doing I'll hunt rares because they look cool, but my main weapons are going to be customized 6*s. Doo Doo takes a whole lot less of your money with 4-5* weapons too.

Z-0
Oct 3, 2012, 01:04 PM
That "50 attack" is a much larger difference considering that rare weaponry have ability modifiers. :\ I used to have a +10 5-Star Alva Folones, and I noticed a much larger increase in damage due to higher consistency on the variables with a +8 Sadiel Rod.

Galax
Oct 3, 2012, 01:09 PM
I'm going to say I'll deal with weapons that fit in with my style of combat...and my outfit. And I don't go anywhere without my Yasminkovs. I probably won't upgrade from those for a long, long time, simply because I like the way they look. I am perfectly content to use a 3000R and 2000H on my Gunner pallet with various PAs to each slot I put one in. With more PAs coming in, this just means I have more variety...with the same guns.

As to 10*s and up not being trade or sellable, well...that only matters if you absolutely MUST have the BEST gear IN THE GAME to have fun. Basically, if you find it fun to walk into a room, swing a sword, and watch all the mobs die every time you connect, you're going to be the ones hunting those weapons down.

If that doesn't appeal to you, then you'll have to settle for lower-rarity items.
Unless SEGA wises up and makes them like other rares - once equipped, no trade. It's not like we'll be able to buy them for 1,050, y'know?

DoubleCannon
Oct 3, 2012, 01:12 PM
The blog entry mentioned something along the lines of "we're looking into ways for you to waste your extra rares that you can't trade."

It is funny how I never even thought of the whole find a 10* that you do not ever plan to use which for me will happen as I just love double sabers. Now as it currently stands it would just become a paper weight. Sega please come up with something to counter this obvious flaw.

EvilMag
Oct 3, 2012, 01:13 PM
It is funny how I never even thought of the whole find a 10* that you do not ever plan to use which for me will happen as I just love double sabers. Now as it currently stands it would just become a paper weight. Sega please come up with something to counter this obvious flaw.

They're not to come up with a good way. They'll just come up with a half-ass way to counter this.

Arika
Oct 3, 2012, 01:23 PM
They're not to come up with a good way. They'll just come up with a half-ass way to counter this.

Hope it is not some PSOBB mime : "Okay, we let you donate unused 10* weapon for team point!!"


5* vs 9*, 6* vs 10*And I agree, 5* still far from 9* when compare for max setting. and I m pretty sure that 6* will be in much larger gap compare to 10*, because 10* is going into new realm of untradeable. Untradeable is trademark for top gear in usual MMO.
5* is just a good value item that worth the cost only to use it until I can get my hand on 9* 50%. It will be the same that 6* is just a temporary until I can get 10*


Anyway, I ll deal with it for now... I ll wait for next survey chance.

hbmizzle10
Oct 3, 2012, 01:24 PM
[QUOTE=BIG OLAF;2865160]That's what I was thinking, too. With super-high-end rares being untradable and unsellable, some people are never going to get their hands on one, what with PSO2's 1/35843394290389 chance of getting a red drop.



ur kidding about the drop rate thing.......right? it's not that low?

Enforcer MKV
Oct 3, 2012, 01:28 PM
I'm not sure if this deserves it's own topic or not but there are some other changes coming to PSO2 with this update. From the official blog (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11370519420.html):
Rooms that have existed for over four hours will no longer spawn enemies nor will rooms nearing four hours (at 3 hours & 30 minutes) be accepting new parties.
Vendor prices for weapons and units will be falling to "combat inflation."
Vendor prices for single star weapons and items will be raised.
10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way.
Level 11 disks will not be tradeable in any way.
7 Star or greater weapons will now drop with elements in the 20~45 range while tekked items will 25~50 range.
Boss will drop more meseta when they drop meseta (this doesn't mean they'll drop more meseta but the value of the meseta they drop will increase).
Eventually, the amount of meseta needed to grind weapons will be decreased

...*Facedesk*

JP community, please please PLEASE complain about this.

Arika
Oct 3, 2012, 01:32 PM
...*Facedesk*

JP community, please please PLEASE complain about this.

50:50 chance. consider how Monster Hunter is so popular there..

Inazuma
Oct 3, 2012, 01:45 PM
[1]Rooms that have existed for over four hours will no longer spawn enemies nor will rooms nearing four hours (at 3 hours & 30 minutes) be accepting new parties.
[2]Vendor prices for weapons and units will be falling to "combat inflation."
[3]Vendor prices for single star weapons and items will be raised.
[4]10 star and greater items will not be tradeable in any way.
[5]Level 11 disks will not be tradeable in any way.
[6]7 Star or greater weapons will now drop with elements in the 20~45 range while tekked items will 25~50 range.
[7]Boss will drop more meseta when they drop meseta (this doesn't mean they'll drop more meseta but the value of the meseta they drop will increase).
[8]Eventually, the amount of meseta needed to grind weapons will be decreased

These are some pretty significant changes. Let's go through them one by one.

1. This must be to discourage MPAs, and I welcome that change. I'd much prefer playing through a quest normally and killing the boss in a single party. It's boring and there is no challenge to run around the same map for hours with 12 players. Also, it's a lot of extra effort to keep 12 players together all the time.

2. I'm OK with this. Since this is the main way to get meseta, if players have less meseta, the price of items in player shops will decrease. Overall, not much will change. Instead of earning 100k an hour and buying an item for 1m, you will earn 50k and hour and buy an item for 500k.

3. Good.

4. Fucking excellent. The game will no longer be "pay to win"! Meseta will only be used for buying AC scratch items, since you can't buy equipment anymore.

5. Once again, no more "pay to win". This is a very positive change to the game overall. It kinda sucks not being able to buy/sell/trade items anymore but at least it's fair to all players. The strongest players will be the ones who are better at the game and who play the game more, as it should be. Sorry, rich players. You won't be stronger than me anymore.

6. No comment. I play as force so this doesn't affect me.

7. I hope it's enough meseta to make bosses worth killing. I also think that the boss at the end of the quest should have a much higher rare drop rate than bosses found randomly in the field, to help favor single parties over multiparty.

8. One of the few remaining uses for meseta and it will be decreased? Thanks to this and the changes preventing items from being traded means that AC scratch items will cost a lot more. There isn't much else to spend meseta on, so that means you will have a lot more meseta to spend on AC scratch items. It will all even out in the end.

tl;dr
PSO2 will no longer be pay to win. Fucking awesome. I'm really surprised Sega would do this. The game will be much better and more fair, but Sega will make less money overall. Thank you, Sega. You decided to sacrifice revenue to improve the quality of the game. That's very admirable and rare in today's gaming industry.

hbmizzle10
Oct 3, 2012, 01:48 PM
i am glad that 10 star items are not trade-able. it means people won't take the easy way out of finding items. if you want it you work for it. it's that simple. im actually glad that they are putting a stop to this. it completely defeats the purpose of calling an item rare if it is common on the game space, especially if that someone didnt work hard to achieve the item in the first place. its like someone cheating off of your test(let's say in high school) you work so hard to study for that test, then someone who didnt do any studying what so ever takes the liberty to cheat off you to get an easy a.

gravityvx
Oct 3, 2012, 02:02 PM
Sounds like a really nice patch, will make finding a 10* a lot more satisfying than a guy with a ton of money going out and buying a fully grinded decked out version and actually make people hunt for them as it was intended for a pso game, although being able to trade the 10* for other weapons with other players wouldn't be a bad idea either. Hopefully they switch up the leveling curve just a bit also, not holding my breath but here's hoping.

DoubleCannon
Oct 3, 2012, 02:03 PM
I am surprised there is still no use for photon drops , crystals , spheres.. when will these have a use!? or do they already?

Arios
Oct 3, 2012, 02:35 PM
I am surprised there is still no use for photon drops , crystals , spheres.. when will these have a use!? or do they already?

As of now, nope.

Xaeris
Oct 3, 2012, 02:38 PM
Well, I guess I'd better farm my ass off with the week of non nerfed vendor prices we have left.

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 02:49 PM
10*'s being untradeable won't really matter unless they're unique, with something different. Things like knockback instead of stun, or health steal on JA, etc. If it's just extra damage and a different look this won't be so bad.

But if it turns out they make droprates on 10*'s even worse than many 9*'s, make them functionally distinct from your starting 1* weapon, make them untradable, and nerf MPA's...there will be rage.

darkante
Oct 3, 2012, 02:52 PM
Dark Flow with shockwaves, oh yeah!

FerrPSO
Oct 3, 2012, 02:58 PM
1. This must be to discourage MPAs, and I welcome that change. I'd much prefer playing through a quest normally and killing the boss in a single party. It's boring and there is no challenge to run around the same map for hours with 12 players. Also, it's a lot of extra effort to keep 12 players together all the time.

Meh, I usually have more fun in a full 12 MPA party where CODES are popping like crazy (and triggering PSEs) that going straight to the boss again and again.

Anyways four hours is enough time I think, and people can just make a new room.

sugarFO
Oct 3, 2012, 03:00 PM
PARASOL!!!!!!!

Griffin
Oct 3, 2012, 03:01 PM
Maybe 10* items will be all class? :D

Doubtful but would be nice. Or at least multi class on some (ie melee weapons on hunter/fighter, guns on ranger/gunner)

I am thinking this to combat the "I don't use this class" issue.

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 03:11 PM
Meh, I usually have more fun in a full 12 MPA party where CODES are popping like crazy (and triggering PSEs) that going straight to the boss again and again.

Anyways four hours is enough time I think, and people can just make a new room.

Well, that's the thing with current MPA's. You might join with 5 minutes left and not even know. Will there be a timer on the MPA? You'll obviously find out when enemies stop spawning, but come on now. That's kind of...dumb.

This sounds like a very lazy fix to the memory issue. The whole MPA system is lazily designed. Why does my computer show a telepipe created by another team that I can actually use before it disappears a split second later. I mean, what?

Instead of addressing the actual issue, they're trying to make it so it can't happen. Games like this are as equal parts created by the designers as well as the players. It's give and take - the designers put in what they think the players want, and the players do what they actually want, intended or not. They would be fools to not capitalize fully on players wanting to just spam MPA's, and yes that may well mean a redesign of the system. It's not technically infeasible to make MPA's last more than 4 hours, hell maybe even make them persist full stop. They are working with the idea of MPAing to a small degree, the caves emission is itself a 20+ minute MPA. The 4 hour cap, though? I'm just not sure I follow this change.

As far as subclass balance, this game is not like other MMO's. When there's no PVP, balancing classes is considerably easier. You can pretty much just throw shit in and see what sticks. If something doesn't stick, boost it. In this case they'll probably just release a weapon for a subclass that isn't very good, or they might not do anything at all considering who it is we're talking about. If a combo is OP...well so what? Oh no they killed quartz dragon 45 seconds faster than you oh no.

dablacksephiroth
Oct 3, 2012, 03:29 PM
Well, here's hopin' Very Hard mode drops no less than 4* Weapons and Units.

And here's hopin' 10*'s drop in the fashion that 1-3*'s work. Playing Force? You will see a majority of wands/rods on your way to vendor from full inventory. Playing Hunter? You will see a majority of swords/partisans on your way to vendor from full inventory.

I'm in Skyland every day, before and after Time Attacking, 7 and more hours (because we have to skip 1 day of the week to do Time Attacks due to 24 hour reset time that pushes our time to play back and back with each passing day), where's my 9* Rod? Oh, the Hunters are picking 'em up? Ok! Oh, look! A Red Rod! FINALLY! It's here! Nope, it's an 8* Dinian for the 27th time.

Lostbob117
Oct 3, 2012, 03:34 PM
Those pa's are awesome.

jooozek
Oct 3, 2012, 04:56 PM
That rod is cheap as hell now, saw cheapest for 1.2M. After 7 hours of grinding you should have at least half of meseta to cover this.

Mystil
Oct 3, 2012, 05:01 PM
I'm not sure if this deserves it's own topic or not but there are some other changes coming to PSO2 with this update. From the official blog (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11370519420.html):

Vendor prices for weapons and units will be falling to "combat inflation."



I guess I better start looking for a new game to play. Or go back to Skyrim, or something..

IzzyData
Oct 3, 2012, 05:13 PM
What difference does it make if everyone plays under the same conditions?

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 05:35 PM
Well, for one, the rich are literally about to get richer.

Inazuma
Oct 3, 2012, 05:59 PM
Well, for one, the rich are literally about to get richer.

Before the update, the strongest players were the ones who had the most money in real life. After the update, the strongest players will be the ones who play the game the most.

Are you sure you want to complain about this? I think it's fucking excellent. Greatest change to ever happen to the game. My biggest complaint about PSO2 was always the fact that it was "pay to win". Now with that fixed, I can fully support the game and not feel dirty for playing it.

The timing of this couldn't be better for me. I'm about to retire in a few weeks. I won't have as much disposable income as I normally do, but I will have a lot more time to play the game. I will be able to hunt for all of the strongest equipment and tech discs all day long. I will use my meseta to buy AC scratch items because I no longer buy them with real money. Everything works out nicely.

For those of you who are busy making big bucks in the real world, sorry that you will soon become weaker. However, this is for the best. This is how video games were 7+ years ago. This is how the first PSO game was, and it was fair.

You wanna become a great Baseball player? You have to practice your ass off. You can't just throw thousands of dollars at a baseball and instantly surpass those who practice all day long. Same thing for PSO2. You can spend real money to get in-game meseta all you want. It will only take you so far. If you want to become truly great, you have to actually play the game.

*is mother fucking happy as fuck about the game being about player skill and amount of time played, rather than real money*

jooozek
Oct 3, 2012, 06:04 PM
If being picked by the RNG is a indication of being excellent then I don't know anything anymore :dead:

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 06:06 PM
No, AC scratchers will continue to make the biggest bucks, just by nature of supply and demand. Sega needs it to work that way. Given you can sell AC scratch items, AC scratch is a legitimized form of RMT. They know this 100%, and are relying on it as a source of revenue. And why wouldn't they? People will pay to avoid inconveniences, such as having to play a game to access its content.

edit: And since I think you misunderstood me, if they reduce inflation by reducing the flow into the game, that actually means the total amount of meseta will fall. They aren't exactly reducing the sinks straight away, they even say grinding costs will fall later. Now, most of the cost in grinding is in the grinders themselves, so that isn't the sink. That just keeps the meseta flowing to...the players who have premium. Oh. With incoming reduced, and outgoing not reduced, total meseta will fall. Deflating the value of the currency will make each existing meseta more valuable.

The richest players will know this, and if they're not idiots (which I assume several aren't), that means they'll hold onto their dosh. And it will go up in value. Hence, the rich literally get richer. The players with billions of meseta have to do absolutely nothing to have their relative wealth rise. By that I don't mean they can sit around and wait, I mean they have to sit around and wait.

Slidikins
Oct 3, 2012, 06:08 PM
No, AC scratchers will continue to make the biggest bucks, just by nature of supply and demand.I agree. I really don't see how changing the vendor prices is going to change the overall economy generated by selling AC scratch items. I know you're essentially saying "Top players can't buy the best items with meseta, hah!" but they'll still have the most meseta, so they'll easily get the best affixes, grinds, etc. once they get their hands on that item by playing the game, which they actually also do.

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 06:12 PM
That's another point to make as well - spending thousands of real dollars and spending thousands of hours in a game are not mutually exclusive, they actually tend to trend pretty closely.

Inazuma
Oct 3, 2012, 06:14 PM
If being picked by the RNG is a indication of being excellent then I don't know anything anymore :dead:

It's still fair. Everyone is playing the same game with the same RNG. Generally speaking, someone who plays 10 hours a day will be stronger than someone who plays 5 hours a day. Also, someone who plays the game more efficiently will be stronger than someone who doesn't care for efficiency.

It's certainly a hell of a lot better than real money being the most important factor.

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 06:19 PM
While talking about averages sounds all well and good, the unfortunate reality is that in systems like this they simply do not apply. To talk about averages with scratch item profitability you need to assume that 1. everyone is doing scratch, 2. the RNG doesn't blow ass, 3. you can't exponentially make money by investing and turning a fairly quick profit given the nature of this game's average market peruser.

I would not be even the slightest bit surprised if numerous markets have been manipulated at some point in the past. Anyone ever notice a soul item soar in price overnight? That's not because one single person kept failing affixes, I'll tell you that much for a fact.

edit: Oh, you meant average for finding 10* rares? Oh god I really hope the droprates aren't even half of what the ardillou is. You know I still haven't even found a fucking soul eater? I MPA almost exclusively and mines and I still haven't even found a signo braver, I bought the one I have.

gravityvx
Oct 3, 2012, 06:44 PM
While talking about averages sounds all well and good, the unfortunate reality is that in systems like this they simply do not apply. To talk about averages with scratch item profitability you need to assume that 1. everyone is doing scratch, 2. the RNG doesn't blow ass, 3. you can't exponentially make money by investing and turning a fairly quick profit given the nature of this game's average market peruser.

I would not be even the slightest bit surprised if numerous markets have been manipulated at some point in the past. Anyone ever notice a soul item soar in price overnight? That's not because one single person kept failing affixes, I'll tell you that much for a fact.

edit: Oh, you meant average for finding 10* rares? Oh god I really hope the droprates aren't even half of what the ardillou is. You know I still haven't even found a fucking soul eater? I MPA almost exclusively and mines and I still haven't even found a signo braver, I bought the one I have.

Sounds like RNG just really hates you, I'll agree on the fact that that sword is damn near impossible to get to drop but that is probably the only weapon I actually farmed for and never got the drop. Every other 9* item along with anything below that has a much larger chance to drop than that thing from experience. If the 10* are that rare, I'm actually fine with that for a change...IF they are insanely strong at +10 and have unique abilities like in PSO. If not, well we have a problem.

Griffin
Oct 3, 2012, 06:47 PM
RNG likes me. It just never did in the other PS onliners.

dablacksephiroth
Oct 3, 2012, 06:50 PM
That rod is cheap as hell now, saw cheapest for 1.2M. After 7 hours of grinding you should have at least half of meseta to cover this.
Then comes the affixes. Then comes the grinding. I totally got this in the bag!

jooozek
Oct 3, 2012, 06:58 PM
Then comes the affixes. Then comes the grinding. I totally got this in the bag!

Not like it'd drop grinded and affixed, though.

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 07:01 PM
Sounds like RNG just really hates you, I'll agree on the fact that that sword is damn near impossible to get to drop but that is probably the only weapon I actually farmed for and never got the drop. Every other 9* item along with anything below that has a much larger chance to drop than that thing from experience. If the 10* are that rare, I'm actually fine with that for a change...IF they are insanely strong at +10 and have unique abilities like in PSO. If not, well we have a problem.

But that's just it. It's not that the RNG hates me, and it's not that I'm a statistical anomaly, it's actually a statistical likelihood that someone won't have found it by now. The only thing in doubt is whether it would be me who hasn't found it yet, or someone else. While random is random, random does tend towards the average given enough tries.

And that's what the market is for - to pick up the slack of the RNG. Given the number of players, and the probably low droprates, we can expect multiple players to grind, grind, grind, and never find that one item they want. Some will find it straight away, others will never find it before ragequitting after several months of being overdue.

All you can do is hope you're not in that minority. Each next try is still going to be pretty unlikely, after all.

dablacksephiroth
Oct 3, 2012, 07:10 PM
Not like it'd drop grinded and affixed, though.

:< I was hoping you'd encourage me with like.. "Oh that's easy! It'll only take you 800k to do both!" *sniffle* Well.. back to wallowing and struggling again to get up to 6mil. lmao T-T;; ....!$$^ this game, mannnnnn!!!!

IndigoNovember
Oct 3, 2012, 07:21 PM
Just waiting for outfits from AC Scratch to be 10 star or greater...

Brus
Oct 3, 2012, 07:41 PM
I don't understand why it makes more sense to not be able to sell 10 star/lvl 11 disks as opposed to making AC items unsellable. It seems the easiest way to make money is to buy AC scratchers and sell the item for a gajillion dollars and then buy rares.

If AC items were exclusive to buyer this would not be a problem.

I think buying rare items from player shops with meseta is a great alternative to to relying on RNG. There are many times someone can spend hundreds of hours hunting for an item and if in that time they happen to make enough meseta to buy it from a player shop tham I think that is fair.

I'm thinking the economy is screwed because of the ability to resell AC items for such high meseta. This new change makes no sense...

gravityvx
Oct 3, 2012, 08:03 PM
I don't understand why it makes more sense to not be able to sell 10 star/lvl 11 disks as opposed to making AC items unsellable. It seems the easiest way to make money is to buy AC scratchers and sell the item for a gajillion dollars and then buy rares.

If AC items were exclusive to buyer this would not be a problem.

I think buying rare items from player shops with meseta is a great alternative to to relying on RNG. There are many times someone can spend hundreds of hours hunting for an item and if in that time they happen to make enough meseta to buy it from a player shop tham I think that is fair.

I'm thinking the economy is screwed because of the ability to resell AC items for such high meseta. This new change makes no sense...

Screwing over their non paying player base by giving them no customization options would be the worse move they could make especially since a high selling point for the game is customizing your character, and i don't think there are any f2p games that have done the whole item mall cant be traded as it's not a very good strategy in making extra revenue for people who are selling the stuff to make income in game, seeing as those players are more likely to buy in bulk. Player buys ton of gamble scratch, sells high profit items, non paying players have an opporotunity to get said real money outfits without paying a real life dollar, everyone's happy besides the ones that don't want to put any effort in getting said item they want at sellers prices. Inflation will always happen in these types of games so it's really not anything new and surprising.

As for 10* being untradable, I still see no issue here this isn't some new concept where really rare gear isn't buyable and takes time to get. Just like every other game in the genre, they are always based on RNG. And even though I'm only going by experience the RNG is really not that bad as long as you're in good MPA getting somewhat frequent PSE bursts, but if it's a boss on the other hand as usual you just hope for the best after it's dead, no different than any other game except you're not competing with others for your loot.

Yden
Oct 3, 2012, 09:00 PM
The main thing I hope for with the untradeable 10 stars is that they have a type of recycling option so you can trade a couple of the ones you don't want/can't use for the ones you want.

Mike
Oct 3, 2012, 09:05 PM
I'm thinking the economy is screwed because of the ability to resell AC items for such high meseta.
Exactly. What we're seeing is Sega sidestepping the giant elephant in the room because the elephant is made of gold and craps money.

D3MON
Oct 3, 2012, 09:08 PM
The main thing I hope for with the untradeable 10 stars is that they have a type of recycling option so you can trade a couple of the ones you don't want/can't use for the ones you want.

this should be implemented only if the trade in count is very high 5-10 Items for the item you want. This should be hard to get to keep the game fair.

Alenoir
Oct 3, 2012, 09:41 PM
I'm thinking the economy is screwed because of the ability to resell AC items for such high meseta. This new change makes no sense...

More like, there are currently more money entering the system than there are money being spent.

Macman
Oct 3, 2012, 10:00 PM
Hahaha, Sega's gonna make it even harder for you to get anything of worth!

This makes no sense, there's hardly any inflation. In fact I've seen things DECREASE in price over time. (Duel Gaze used to be millions)

I mean come on, how many people do you know have and use a Cruel Coffin or a Quartz Calibur?

Zyrusticae
Oct 3, 2012, 10:06 PM
^ Most of the inflation shows up in the AC items because the supply is relatively limited and the demand is astronomical. Rare drops inevitably drop in value because there is a theoretically unlimited supply of them over a large enough period of time. They start off being incredibly valuable at first as people who really want them buy up every single one that gets put up on market (regardless of the value), and then drops off afterwards as more people get what they want.


Exactly. What we're seeing is Sega sidestepping the giant elephant in the room because the elephant is made of gold and craps money.
Okay, no.

I don't like the AC scratch system much at all, but this is completely unrelated to the problem of the ever-growing money supply. All the AC items do is shift the supply of money to the sellers of said AC items, nothing more. They don't generate any meseta, they don't take any out of the game, they just move it around.

They could probably also combat a lot of the inflation by adding a larger market tax, which would also make it much harder to gain a profit from buying up cheap items and putting them back up for higher prices.

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 10:33 PM
^ Most of the inflation shows up in the AC items because the supply is relatively limited and the demand is astronomical. Rare drops inevitably drop in value because there is a theoretically unlimited supply of them over a large enough period of time. They start off being incredibly valuable at first as people who really want them buy up every single one that gets put up on market (regardless of the value), and then drops off afterwards as more people get what they want.


Okay, no.

I don't like the AC scratch system much at all, but this is completely unrelated to the problem of the ever-growing money supply. All the AC items do is shift the supply of money to the sellers of said AC items, nothing more. They don't generate any meseta, they don't take any out of the game, they just move it around.

They could probably also combat a lot of the inflation by adding a larger market tax, which would also make it much harder to gain a profit from buying up cheap items and putting them back up for higher prices.

Nail on the head, the entire post. Right down to my preferred solution: Increase the sinks, don't decrease the faucets.

Macman
Oct 3, 2012, 10:36 PM
I don't like the AC scratch system much at all, but this is completely unrelated to the problem of the ever-growing money supply. All the AC items do is shift the supply of money to the sellers of said AC items, nothing more. They don't generate any meseta, they don't take any out of the game, they just move it around.
Technically they DO take money out of the system. 5% of the price is not given to the seller. It's nowhere near enough to have a significant effect, though.

Honestly I don't see the problem with meseta levels right now. It's not like there's tons of people already nearing their meseta caps like there was in PSU. (and that was mostly due to dupe exploits)

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 10:40 PM
I agree, I feel it's at a comfortable level right now given how easy it is for an individual to lose all their cash to RNG mechanics, but later on I can imagine it being an issue. The solution is not to penalize, but to give them incentives to spend it.

They evidently cannot implement an incentive that does not cost real money, however.

Mike
Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM
Sega wants to protect their cash-cow. If they were really interested in fixing any inflation in AC items, they would find a way to reduce the demand for them or make them cheaper to come by. Reducing demand would be counter productive and reducing the real money price would hurt profits and these changes show that Sega is not interested in doing either.

Macman
Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM
Well as it stands, it will probably cost 4 grinders and over 15,000 meseta per attempt at grinding 10*+ items. The sinks can easily be balanced on DooDoo alone.

I'm not sure what they're thinking with these proposals.

Laxedrane
Oct 3, 2012, 10:50 PM
Hahaha, Sega's gonna make it even harder for you to get anything of worth!

This makes no sense, there's hardly any inflation. In fact I've seen things DECREASE in price over time. (Duel Gaze used to be millions)

I mean come on, how many people do you know have and use a Cruel Coffin or a Quartz Calibur?

Before I start this post let's look at the definition of inflation as sega used it.

"a continuing rise in the general price level usually attributed to an increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available goods and services "

Why is this an issue? Right now it isn't really however sega is very afraid of inflation with good reason. Let's look at that reason.(At least the reason I think sega is afraid of rapid inflation.)

If you look Phantasy star since it became an MMO It's economical system mirrors the real world quite remarkably.

The Original pso up until blue burst(I can't speak for blue burst becuase I really didn't stick around) economy did not run like the world's nor many other Fantasy world's out there. It's Economy ran like a card game.

The meseta cap was so low comparatively speaking to the amount of money you could make by the time you got into ultimate. Players easily not only capped their on hand money. But capped the money they kept in the bank.

Which in turn made meseta effectively worthless to everything but paying for appraisal, buying meds, and possibly getting low grade rares. Even medium quality stuff more then likely required you to trade other stuff.

With no standardized value on anything just simply how much you want it and how much you let on you wanted it to the person you traded to. I am sure there was some shrewd operator out there who managed to convince someone to make a trade akin to trading a seal J-sword for a DB saber. This is why sites such as these also had trade forums.

This was all due to inflation.

By the time sega was willing to roll out a new Phantasy Star MMO the onset of the concepts of Bazaars and Auction houses were already proven methods in the industry. So instead of trying to develop a place where people could easily do their 3 chickens for a cow trading. It went to the Goods->Money->Desired Goods system.

Sega put their own spin on it but inflation reared it's ugly head again. Despite having a higher cap there were still an unacceptable number of players hitting capped money in the game. Players used bulletin boards to bring back the 3 chickens for your cow trading style back into play however sega eventually intervened.

They did this by Artificially raising the cap on meseta without changing the code. Simply by adding Gold bars which could be bought and sold for I believe 10 mil each.

They later took it one step further by taking massive amount of money out of the economy by requiring these Gold bars in High quality Goods trades. The biggest cash grab being very late in it's life where you could build your own weapon. Which required an overwhelming amount of gold bars especially for what was considered by them the most desirable option.

So inflation, more specifically the volume of meseta being produced is a serious concern of sega. I think it's a bit early to for them to be panicking considering how high they made the meseta cap in this game. But however nipping this one in the butt early might be a good idea in the long run.

This also might be why they won't be nerfing DooDoo right away. To pull more Meseta out of circulation.

Edit: anyways that's the way I see it.

dablacksephiroth
Oct 3, 2012, 10:55 PM
^ I used my meseta for Charge weapons. >_>!!

gigawuts
Oct 3, 2012, 11:01 PM
PSOBB was largely a barter system. The only currency was de facto: Photon Drops. The value of items shifted constantly with varying supply, demand, and traders coming and going.

There was no real inflation because PD's were in high demand for weapon percents. Rather, there was inflation, but not in PD's - people got weapons, and then put them back into trade when they replaced them. By and large, players traded weapons for weapons a lot of the time. PD's were a rough go-between, but for the most part very few weapons traded evenly with PD's and there was no unit of trade that acted as a filler to even a trade - if that L&K was worth less than a PD and you for some reason didn't want a weapon for it, you just had to hope somebody really fucking wanted that L&K.

This issue wasn't inflation, but a complete lack of foresight, indeed it may have even been intended. It was utterly ridiculous how easy it was to make money, and they did it. Perhaps it was to do with how easy it was to dupe items to sell, they knew full well players could hack or dupe using in-game exploits to get borderline infinite cash with minimal effort. I'm fairly certain they wanted an effective black market for rares. Granted, that's susceptible to duping as well, however it is quite a bit easier to tell that your 15% dark L&K might be a dupe when you notice somebody trading 29 other 15% dark L&K's in their game.

The thing is, the people with the most meseta right now aren't going to spend it on doodoo. They're sitting on so much that grinding is a non-issue and they already they've probably already +10'd all the rares they want to grind. This is a stupid, stupid, stupid change. This is akin to making ardillous rarer, because people are quitting without finding an ardillou. Obviously if they're rarer, they'll hunt more! What this does is it hurts anyone that doesn't already have 20m or so. The ones that do have 20m or so will only profit from this, as their buying power soars, depending how fast these changes occur and how patient they are.

Macman
Oct 3, 2012, 11:33 PM
Finally got around to reading the rest of this thread.
All you people defending 10* items becoming untradable are going to be singing a different tune when you never EVER get that one item you want to perfectly stylize your character.

You think Ardillos are hard to find? Wait til you try looking for Chain Sawds and you're finding everything else for other classes that drops in the area EXCEPT the Chain Sawd after 200 hours MPA spamming (but being forced to reset every 4 hours because Sega can't code for bananas).

Arika
Oct 3, 2012, 11:38 PM
Sega wants to protect their cash-cow. If they were really interested in fixing any inflation in AC items, they would find a way to reduce the demand for them or make them cheaper to come by. Reducing demand would be counter productive and reducing the real money price would hurt profits and these changes show that Sega is not interested in doing either.

Not really, I feel the opposite. A lot of my friends were going to pay for My Shop in the up coming patch at first to sell rare from VH mode, but now all of them cancel the plan. Then a lot of friends who are premium also consider premium function of trading/selling is going to be useless soon, and they will stop that either. Most people has main goal in MMO as getting gear. if being premium doesn't make you find rare quicker, then nobody will like to pay for it.

AC clothes is up or down directly related to meseta inflation. If anybody looking in the market, then they will know that the price is high or low depend on meseta floating. And it is fair, because AC price = real world price which is more constant. (Sega update new area and make meseta become inflation, however the real money is still stable. So it is obviously that you need more meseta to trade those real money item)


However, by this patch, I doubt anybody will care meseta anymore, because the main goal to spend meseta to get good weapon is no longer valid. With this, I think less AC users will want to sell their stuff, because they don't need meseta anymore. A lot of people were making AC clothes cheaper, because they are casual players who need quick meseta and sell everything from scratch. Now, they will only get their own clothes and ignore the market. I think SEGA is making economy become worse, rather than fixing it. Everything that is still usable in market such as grinder etc, will also become more expensive in market now, because people has nothing else to spend money on.

NoiseHERO
Oct 4, 2012, 12:21 AM
So am I the only one that knew this game was just going to get more and more "korean" and difficult for "free" players the second they made this game free to play and had us spamming typical MMO quests under the name of client orders?

All I'm gonna say is... It'll only slowly get worse from here. Our tiny hopes is that most of the player base in general is not liking these changes at all. SEGA then caving in at the last minute and changing it. But I've already played a bunch of games with bullshit management, so I'm prepared to put up with it, so long as I still find the game fun.


...


Well I'm not completely prepared to hunt for anything 10* unless they're planning on easing up the droprates. I couldn't even find an ikutachi I probably gave up after like 60-80 runs, hell I barely get 7-8* if anything, our "JUNK RARES" I RARELY get.

I'm sure you PSO vets loved spammin a mission for 200 runs till you got your impossible drop, But Rock Eastwood isn't a masochist. So yeah a 10* having an even worse drop rate = I'll probably never have a 10* >_____________>

Rien
Oct 4, 2012, 12:21 AM
Wait, I have to grind for a 10* item to drop?

I've never even received a 9* in all the hours I played!

Now I won't even have the option to buy it off a MyShop...

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 12:32 AM
So am I the only one that knew this game was just going to get more and more "korean" and difficult for "free" players the second they made this game free to play and had us spamming typical MMO quests under the name of client orders?

All I'm gonna say is... It'll only slowly get worse from here. Our tiny hopes is that most of the player base in general is not liking these changes at all. SEGA then caving in at the last minute and changing it. But I've already played a bunch of games with bullshit management, so I'm prepared to put up with it, so long as I still find the game fun.


...


Well I'm not completely prepared to hunt for anything 10* unless they're planning on easing up the droprates. I couldn't even find an ikutachi I probably gave up after like 60-80 runs, hell I barely get 7-8* if anything, our "JUNK RARES" I RARELY get.

I'm sure you PSO vets loved spammin a mission for 200 runs till you got your impossible drop, But Rock Eastwood isn't a masochist. So yeah a 10* having an even worse drop rate = I'll probably never have a 10* >_____________>

Online multiplayer games in that era weren't the same as they were even five years later with PSOBB. They were a game like any other - you played it when you felt like it and didn't when you didn't. Now games have become something else entirely, people frequently play single games almost exclusively instead of multiple games. PSO1 also had far more variety in both its level design, as well as its level appearances. You needed to do things to get places. Here you spam, spam, spam, and hope you happen to find what you're looking for. 200 hours in an MPA is exactly the same as 200 hours doing runs - the only difference is you like the way this is set up. In the end you're still spamming a very monotonous thing for 200 hours.

I understand you dislike PSO's design, but it was a product of its era, sold to a different type of player, fairly advanced stuff for a console back then, and in the end one of the most influential games of its time. Hence the whole sequels existing thing. You're basically saying "Ew, pong? I'd never have played that, that's SO BORING!" Well, you might not have, but you can thank everyone who enjoyed it for games being as common and popular as they are today.

So, no. What PSO vets loved was a variety of things, sure some even liked doing 200 runs. But boiling that game down to being solely about doing monotonous runs is disingenuous and a discredit to the this site's original creation, especially when PSU and PSO2 have taken the same stuff and put in even less content at release.

edit: one of these days I'm going to have to preview my posts and make sure I'm not saying "both" and then listing like five things.

Crystal_Shard
Oct 4, 2012, 12:34 AM
Is it just me, or are the PSOW servers being hammered because of this update announcement? I never seen so many bad request gateway timeouts before...

@Arika: Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I don't see anything here that would encourage a mass AC buying spree.

If they really wanted to combat inflation, they should have scrapped the Scratch system and flooded the market by setting up a proper AC shop. This is just unsubtly trying to squeeze money from people who aren't likely to start paying anyway. Lowering the prices we can sell loot to NPCs for is either going to push more people to put up vendor trash on the MyShop, which might lower the prices for basic equipment and lower star rares, but it also means that rarer items may also shoot up in price as people look for alternatives to make meseta faster now that one method has been cut out.

It's pretty obvious there's no interest in lowering inflation in the market. It's not even encouraging people to buy a Premium Pass oddly enough, since one of the major incentives - trading rares - is being cut off by making 10* and higher rares untradeable, let alone Level 11 and higher techs..

If Sega can make things any worse, it'll be making future AC Scratch items 10* and higher only. That's really going to be FUN.

On a more positive note, if it helps with the current lag situation, the other changes to MPAs and other things are okay I guess. I know efficiency is good and all that, but seriously, the idea of playing more than 4 hours in one location is making my eye twitch. :P

Rien
Oct 4, 2012, 12:39 AM
...I still can't get over the State of the Arks announcements.

It really just encourages hacking more than ever. I can't say I'm not tempted to start learning already. With the way this has turned out, we're pretty much left with no choice but to do things illegitimately to continue at a "casual pace". I don't know about any of you, but, as I've stated before, I'm yet to see a 9* weapon drop. Ever.

I don't find any of it fair. Not that it was fair to begin with due to my major problem with earning meseta.

Drifting Fable
Oct 4, 2012, 12:50 AM
Welp, these are dark days coming forward indeed.....

Alright perhaps I'm exaggerating, but all the excitement I once had for next week just suddenly evaporated upon reading this state of arks address.

NoiseHERO
Oct 4, 2012, 12:54 AM
Online multiplayer games in that era weren't the same as they were even five years later with PSOBB. They were a game like any other - you played it when you felt like it and didn't when you didn't. Now games have become something else entirely, people frequently play single games almost exclusively instead of multiple games. PSO1 also had far more variety in both its level design, as well as its level appearances. You needed to do things to get places. Here you spam, spam, spam, and hope you happen to find what you're looking for. 200 hours in an MPA is exactly the same as 200 hours doing runs - the only difference is you like the way this is set up. In the end you're still spamming a very monotonous thing for 200 hours.

I understand you dislike PSO's design, but it was both a product of its era, sold to a different type of player, fairly advanced stuff for a console back then, and in the end one of the most influential games of its time. Hence the whole sequels existing thing. You're basically saying "Ew, pong? I'd never have played that, that's SO BORING!" Well, you might not have, but you can thank everyone who enjoyed it for games being as common and popular as they are today.

So, no. What PSO vets loved was a variety of things, sure some even liked doing 200 runs. But boiling that game down to being solely about doing monotonous runs is disingenuous and a discredit to the this site's original creation, especially when PSU and PSO2 have taken the same stuff and put in even less content at release.

The only thing I was comparing to PSO was the drop rates in general for certain rares to the point where you'd be in one place for an extremely long period of time to begin with. So between any of the games I've never been a huge fan of running a mission more than 20 times in a row(and even THAT'S pushing it with my patience.) is what I was saying. But in this case... we'll actually be FORCED to do so, instead of earning what you want through alternative means, like trading and buying.

The ONLY thing that makes sense from it is... keeping the rares... rare. But at this point in the game that's really just... fucking a bunch of the players over and sending everyone back to already hated RNG.

[spoiler-box]Me liking MPA's over linear runs(which not only PSO did) is another irrelevant story. And even on that subject right now... I'm wishing there would be more interesting landmarks and level design... the repetitive looking vomit of their "randomly generated" feilds are starting to get old on me, just as much as PSO and PSU's linear pathways did...

But at least with PSO, everything in the field was memorable, and in PSU it felt like you had a destination. MPAs would be ideal... but instead of feeling like you're somewhere or GOING somewhere... it feels more like you're in the middle of nowhere and you just teleport out when you're finished, which means... there's nothing IN the MPAs and it was painful eventually realizing that. and then realizing that all the future areas will also be floating platforms in the middle of nowhere that are only pretty for about the first 10 runs before you realize there's nothing interesting to look at other than wheather changes. And now you got me rambling on about THAT. D<[/spoiler-box]

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 01:44 AM
The only thing I was comparing to PSO was the drop rates in general for certain rares to the point where you'd be in one place for an extremely long period of time to begin with. So between any of the games I've never been a huge fan of running a mission more than 20 times in a row(and even THAT'S pushing it with my patience.) is what I was saying. But in this case... we'll actually be FORCED to do so, instead of earning what you want through alternative means, like trading and buying.

The ONLY thing that makes sense from it is... keeping the rares... rare. But at this point in the game that's really just... fucking a bunch of the players over and sending everyone back to already hated RNG.

[spoiler-box]Me liking MPA's over linear runs(which not only PSO did) is another irrelevant story. And even on that subject right now... I'm wishing there would be more interesting landmarks and level design... the repetitive looking vomit of their "randomly generated" feilds are starting to get old on me, just as much as PSO and PSU's linear pathways did...

But at least with PSO, everything in the field was memorable, and in PSU it felt like you had a destination. MPAs would be ideal... but instead of feeling like you're somewhere or GOING somewhere... it feels more like you're in the middle of nowhere and you just teleport out when you're finished, which means... there's nothing IN the MPAs and it was painful eventually realizing that. and then realizing that all the future areas will also be floating platforms in the middle of nowhere that are only pretty for about the first 10 runs before you realize there's nothing interesting to look at other than wheather changes. And now you got me rambling on about THAT. D<[/spoiler-box]

Aah, I mistook it then.

What made the rares work nicely in PSO1 was when you had it, you'd already done almost all the work. After a few grinders, that were not random, you were done maxing it out (unless you actually wanted to sphere your new DB Saber). Now even the most common of rares can cost a million meseta to max out, and for the same amount of money you could've bought a weapon that performed better before even grinding it. In the case of the jareid and vraolet, it's just like 100k to get the best one in the game - if you have good s-atk anyway - but a depressingly similar amount to grind them.

The other thing that made PSO1's rare system work, at least after DC, was that one level's rarest rares were the next level's common rares. A dragon slayer for instance was a GREAT find in hard, but not so great in very hard. Yet, it still dropped, in case you missed it in hard and wanted it but didn't want to farm at an effective loss. Now that's not the case, and players who bum rush it to very hard don't get that. Now instead we have pretty much everything drop things at a very low rate, with most of it still being pretty mediocre.

It's just bizarre. If they're going to do it this way and then make it so you can't even buy them anymore, then they're going to lose customers who just up and say "Fuck this shit," and they're going to lose them FAST. I'm currently questioning if this is turning into something I want to spend my time on, but I probably will anyway.

gravityvx
Oct 4, 2012, 02:22 AM
I kinda feel like I'm on the wow forum when viewing this thread :x The 9* rares aren't going anywhere and are still buyable, and lets face it 9* +10 is already overboard for any MPA, everything melts in mere seconds (even bosses with the right affixes), I feel like people seem to think they are entitled to everything even the really good drops, the 10* are what I'm referring to since they obviously must be ridiculous powerful to be untradable. Bottom line is, you have access to every single weapon in the game besides the small amount of 10* items to buy, I really don't see the problem here. Although I really do think they need to at least be able to be traded with others for their 10* weapons they can't use or don't want so both parties will be satisfied in case they get a 10* they can't use.

Griffin
Oct 4, 2012, 02:27 AM
I kinda feel like I'm on the wow forum when viewing this thread :x The 9* rares aren't going anywhere and are still buyable, and lets face it 9* +10 is already overboard for any MPA, everything melts in mere seconds (even bosses with the right affixes), I feel like people seem to think they are entitled to everything even the really good drops, the 10* are what I'm referring to since they obviously must be ridiculous powerful to be untradable. Bottom line is, you have access to every single weapon in the game besides the small amount of 10* items to buy, I really don't see the problem here. Although I really do think they need to at least be able to be traded with others for their 10* weapons they can't use or don't want so both parties will be satisfied in case they get a 10* they can't use.

I think the issue is that most players are used to being able to buy whatever they want like in the online predecessors, so when there's change...

Like I mentioned before, Sega had originally said NO rares would be tradeable. It wasn't the case at launch, because we can trade/sell many rares, but now the piece is put together. I am personally delighted by the idea.

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 02:32 AM
The problem isn't getting more damage with new rares, the problem is getting unique abilities exclusively via chance in an already badly designed system. You know, the point of these games - getting things that do stuff. Nothing but some extra damage separates an ardillou from a 1* sword. They are functionally identical. Go ahead, leave that to chance, make it untradable.

Now, imagine if a PA was a very rare random drop, and not tradeable or sellable, and it was actually good. Still giddy over this idea? Because that's what many 10* rares are going to be - unique. If you still like this idea, well, go you I guess. I don't.

Also there actually will be rare PA's that can't be sold or traded, so there's that.

NoiseHERO
Oct 4, 2012, 02:35 AM
I don't think I'm entitled to own some virtual item. I just don't think I should have to spend 300 hours hunting said specific item to be actually earn it and that being a maybe.

Anyway the 10*'s either better have non-shitty drop rates, Or there better only be 5 of them or something. Then whose to say what will happen when we get 11-15 star crap....

I agree with whoever said "you'll be singing a different tune" when you realize this game will have more and more stuff you'll never see, just because you're not an regular AC user or RNG doesn't like you. At least depending on how all this really plays out.

edit: and as I said pages before, locked rares would've been fine... If drop rates didn't suck balls in general and if it was from the start.(and even in the portable games where drop rates weren't brutal, it still felt pretty stupid.) >_>

gravityvx
Oct 4, 2012, 02:46 AM
The problem isn't getting more damage with new rares, the problem is getting unique abilities exclusively via chance in an already badly designed system. You know, the point of these games - getting things that do stuff. Nothing but some extra damage separates an ardillou from a 1* sword. They are functionally identical. Go ahead, leave that to chance, make it untradable.

Now, imagine if a PA was a very rare random drop, and not tradeable or sellable, and it was actually good. Still giddy over this idea? Because that's what many 10* rares are going to be - unique. If you still like this idea, well, go you I guess. I don't.

Also there actually will be rare PA's that can't be sold or traded, so there's that.

Your argument only further points to why it sounds like a good idea that they are untradable. Currently rares do nothing but add more damage and better looks, and all are currently buyable up to 9*, and unless I highly misunderstood you, you're saying you want easily obtainable unique weapons, I'm at a loss on that one. As far as PA's go, I don't really care whether they are tradable or not, as once again doesn't make much a difference in a 12 man MPA long as you're spamming some kinda damage.

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 02:48 AM
Your argument only further points to why it sounds like a good idea that they are untradable. Currently rares do nothing but add more damage and better looks, and all are currently buyable up to 9*, and unless I highly misunderstood you, you're saying you want easily obtainable unique weapons, I'm at a loss on that one. As far as PA's go, I don't really care whether they are tradable or not, as once again doesn't make much a difference in a 12 man MPA long as you're spamming some kinda damage.

Oh, here we go.

No, I didn't say easy. Ardillous aren't easy to get, but they can be traded. Got 4 million meseta just lying around, maybe get it when you make a new account? Yeah, no?

You don't care, like I said, go you. I do. I don't do 12 man MPA's.

NoiseHERO
Oct 4, 2012, 02:58 AM
There's still people that play PS for damage over looks?

gravityvx
Oct 4, 2012, 03:04 AM
Oh, here we go.

No, I didn't say easy. Ardillous aren't easy to get, but they can be traded. Got 4 million meseta just lying around, maybe get it when you make a new account? Yeah, no?

You don't care, like I said, go you. I do. I don't do 12 man MPA's.

Here we go what? The sword isn't easy to get, but it also doesn't come with some unique ability (if the 10* even has them, only assumptions at this point), or insane scaling stats at +10, and is a 9* weapon, calm down a bit. No reason to get offended over nothing, I'm just making points. And as far as not doing 12 man MPA, again this just sounds like entitlement, so you don't do a full manned MPA so you want your drops to be easier to obtain when you already don't use the most effective method to obtain drops faster.

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 03:05 AM
Where are you actually getting any of what you're saying? When did I say anything should be easy, or that I'm entitled, or that I want playing with fewer players to be as effective as playing with lots of players?

gravityvx
Oct 4, 2012, 03:05 AM
There's still people that play PS for damage over looks?

You wouldn't see the river of tears made by doodoo if there weren't.

gravityvx
Oct 4, 2012, 03:12 AM
Where are you actually getting any of what you're saying? When did I say anything should be easy, or that I'm entitled, or that I want playing with fewer players to be as effective as playing with lots of players?

I got that from what I had quoted above, you say you want to be able buy the 10* weapons, you say the drop rates should be higher, you say you rarely get anything good in a more previous post, but then you say you don't do a full MPAs which is the best way to farm rares at this moment, which to me points to you wanting the game to cater to your playstyle instead of what the devs are aiming for. By all means correct me if I'm wrong though.

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 03:20 AM
Like I said, oh here we go.

Instead of assuming I want all of those things simultaneously, or at all, or that my lack of finding a signo braver is indicative of what else I find or want, why don't you ask what I think instead of just replying willy nilly.

Not even one of the assumptions you've made have been accurate.

gravityvx
Oct 4, 2012, 03:31 AM
Like I said, oh here we go.

Instead of assuming I want all of those things simultaneously, or at all, or that my lack of finding a signo braver is indicative of what else I find or want, why don't you ask what I think instead of just replying willy nilly.

Not even one of the assumptions you've made have been accurate.

I'm still wondering what the whole here we go thing is about but, my assumption came from the apparently exaggerated way you expressed still not finding a soul eater or a signo braver, I don't think what I said was "willy nilly" but hey. That said, thanks for the correction so what do you want? :)

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 03:46 AM
Ideally, either low chance with market access, low chance on common enemies, reasonable chance on uncommon enemies or bosses, or low chance with some sort of assurance that after surpassing the average a few times that you're given a forced drop (say, the droprate is 1/1000, and you're now up to 5000 kills but still don't have it because RNG sucks, thus rendering you entirely unable to access content despite doing more work than the vast majority of other player with the item, through no fault of your own. Doing more work for zero progress towards a goal - do remember that every next enemy is still 1/1000, having killed 5000 doesn't affect what will drop next - is not fun, and does not belong in a game).

So, players have a standard droprate to work with, but are also given some other assurance that they can obtain it through alternative methods, even if it requires more work on top of what other people have to do, and even if the RNG denies them again and again. Either the market, where people will be selling items they've found dupes of, or having to kill 5x the average number of enemies (or some other multiple, the exact number isn't important). Of course, 1/1000 is a pretty optimistic droprate, I doubt many things actually drop that frequently.

There are places where unfairness exists. One of them is called real life. Some are more familiar with unfairness than others. Many of those people will not want to run into it in a video game, which should be a source of entertainment, but is becoming an industry built around making players work a second job or pay cash to avoid working a second job so they can play the game.

In the time I didn't find a single signo braver or soul eater, which are just examples I toss out because I do actually want them and they're not even rare, I've found six or so spardaions. I don't even sell them anymore. I've found around 18 daylight scars, two in 30 seconds once. Talis legacies out the wazoo, three of those in five minutes once. The soul eater IS actually unique, it's an all class weapon. If I'd be unable to use a partisan while subbing hunter strictly because I find certain rares instead of others I'd be a might bit fucking irked.

edit: I should say though, I don't think any of this will ever actually be put in. Think of it as a christmas list. I still want that one lego castle from the 90's, never getting that either. At least, not unless I drop a few hundred bucks for an unopened box, or buy all the parts all grimy and used. All we can hope to do is whine at them until they make them sellable, perhaps with a ridiculous tax.

Angelo
Oct 4, 2012, 04:08 AM
If they up the rare drop rates to what was seen in PsPo2, then this could work.

gravityvx
Oct 4, 2012, 04:15 AM
See, I can agree with most of that well thought out post. But as far as drop rates go I'm still really unsure about the RNG in this game. I've only been playing maybe 30-1hr a day the past 2 months or so, a bit more after the new classes released but I the odd thing is, my drop rate is no different than when I played a lot, for example when the game first came out I could play for hours and only come out with 1 or 2 rares. And just in the last 3 days or so I've only played around 1hr and have gotten the 9* launcher, the 9* rifle off cater (I dunno their names), 7* double saber off something in caves, 7* mech gun off something in desert, and all of these were worth more than 200k minus the double saber so I'd assume they weren't that common. This is probably why I feel the RNG is extremely skewed from person to person but not all that bad if you run a large MPA. This hasn't ever felt like a job to me even when I was hunting andiru a few months back.

What I think they should do is just set days where the drop rate to things are raised by reasonable amount, I don't think an "I win" button after a certain amount of kills would be fun either, then I'd just feel like...hey I'll get it at some point anyway, and I'm assuming you meant this method for all rares so everyone would be getting this stuff constantly give the nature of MPA unless you planned for the kill count to reset upon logout. Also, let's not forget they are adding rare enemies, these could be the "higher chance" mobs everyone wants.

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 04:26 AM
Well, I'd prefer the certain drop on all rares yes, but realistically it should only really go on items that can't be traded. The difference with items that can be traded is that there's a steady flow of them into the game. For something that has a 1/1000 droprate, you might not find it after 5000 kills, but you can assume with relative certainty that 5 have entered the hands of other players while you were looking.

That's totally cool with me. One player might find two, lucky for him, another doesn't find any, unlucky for him - but they can exchange the items with the money the unlucky player made while looking. I won't say all chance is bad, it gives a reason to play for a lot of people. I just don't think chance should be the exclusive decider of the entire game. It's just...not fun to roll snake eyes every time you gamble. And for some people out there, well, that's what happens every time they try.

gravityvx
Oct 4, 2012, 04:39 AM
Well, I'd prefer the certain drop on all rares yes, but realistically it should only really go on items that can't be traded. The difference with items that can be traded is that there's a steady flow of them into the game. For something that has a 1/1000 droprate, you might not find it after 5000 kills, but you can assume with relative certainty that 5 have entered the hands of other players while you were looking.

That's totally cool with me. One player might find two, lucky for him, another doesn't find any, unlucky for him - but they can exchange the items with the money the unlucky player made while looking. I won't say all chance is bad, it gives a reason to play for a lot of people. I just don't think chance should be the exclusive decider of the entire game. It's just...not fun to roll snake eyes every time you gamble. And for some people out there, well, that's what happens every time they try.

If someone gets nothing every single time they try I can see a huge problem with the system, but if someone just gets something they didn't want but still got a rare I dunno what exactly to call that, lucky? unlucky? and by rare I don't mean daylights scars more like a much more uncommon drop, I would count rares like daylight as nothing, they are the varista of pso2 lol But yes I do agree if it's to the point where if someone gets nothing (or something equivalent to a daylight) every single time, there does need to be changes made. And now I'm off to bed.

Angelo
Oct 4, 2012, 05:01 AM
What I think they should do is just set days where the drop rate to things are raised by reasonable amount

They used to do this in PSU. It was like daily star luck... or something...

Rien
Oct 4, 2012, 05:44 AM
You guys ask if we play for damage over looks.

Now I ask you - Can you beat a Time Attack with S rank if all of you used only 1* weapons? Yes? Can you do it as Hunters? Yes? Then I should bow down and worship your superior prowess.

Okay, maybe if you used 3* weapons you might stand a reasonable chance, but I generally don't see it happening. And that's why we have rares: to give you that edge where you need it.

Ogni-XR21
Oct 4, 2012, 05:50 AM
But rares are not the best weapons in this game...

Rien
Oct 4, 2012, 06:13 AM
But rares are not the best weapons in this game...

Yeah they are. o.o

Okay, maybe a bouquet rifle doesn't trump all the common rifles, but an Adirou (whatever you wish to call that sword) is indeed better than all the other swords...

Mystil
Oct 4, 2012, 06:33 AM
Not all of them are the best. There are exceptions though, namely that sword.


@Inazuma - This game hasn't been a pay to win game from the start. There isn't any items to be gained by being a premium player that gives them an edge over a free player. A perfect example of a game that uses a pay to win scheme is Perfect World, and they are doing it better than any MMO out right now, and that is NOT a good thing.

Unless you mean 2 prems trading rares to each other, then as a PSO vet you should not have a problem with this as that is a basic thing for any game with trading its how we all got our stuff.

Currently, the direction SEGA is taking with the game is at best, questionable. On one hand it looks like they are LISTENING to the people who want this game insanely harder(some of you are masochists..) and on the other hand it looks like they just want to take away the "set back play and relax" feeling that I'm sure most players get out of this game, myself included. Reducing the vendor price in a F2P game is a scheme I've seen done before. It's not about reducing combat inflation - developers cannot control PLAYER ECONOMY. For PSO2, what this will do is force people to rely on shops(I don't), not everyone likes a AH based economy(I don't) cause idiot pricing - and it will entice people to look for shop tickets, or go premium(see what I'm getting at?). Now you're at the mercy of drop rates, hoping that big ticket item drops so you can sell it for millions.

Anna_Wren
Oct 4, 2012, 06:38 AM
I don't normally go for PSO2 speculations, but maybe the 10 star rare weapons will for the most part be "All-class" usable weapons in general. That might make the whole thing much less LOL worthy.

Zyrusticae
Oct 4, 2012, 08:21 AM
Reducing the vendor price in a F2P game is a scheme I've seen done before. It's not about reducing combat inflation - developers cannot control PLAYER ECONOMY. For PSO2, what this will do is force people to rely on shops(I don't), not everyone likes a AH based economy(I don't) cause idiot pricing - and it will entice people to look for shop tickets, or go premium(see what I'm getting at?). Now you're at the mercy of drop rates, hoping that big ticket item drops so you can sell it for millions.
That... doesn't even make any sense.

You are ALREADY forced to rely on shops for buying everything. And the prices in those shops ARE going to either go down, or remain stagnant. This is a good thing.

Currently, as it is, your money is guaranteed to go down in value as the money supply just continues skyrocketing. Like Arika pointed out, this is abundantly obvious in the prices for themed AC items - going from 500k, to 1m, to 2m, to 3m, to 4m month after month. This means you HAVE to play A LOT just to keep up with the prices - if you don't have a constant meseta income, it just keeps getting worse and worse and eventually you just can't afford any of these outfits. Reducing the money supply itself will keep your meseta from eventually becoming utterly worthless, which means you don't have to spend hours upon hours farming just to keep up with an explosively unstable market.

Of course, they could also fix this just by decreasing AC scratch prices or selling items separately... but this is SEGA. We all know how this works by now.

Enforcer MKV
Oct 4, 2012, 08:22 AM
Yeah they are. o.o

Okay, maybe a bouquet rifle doesn't trump all the common rifles, but an Adirou (whatever you wish to call that sword) is indeed better than all the other swords...

Well, if we go off of just base stats, then sure, but it's a heck of a lot easier to +10 an Alva Calibur and Affix it than it is to do the same to that Ardillo.

And that Alva Calibur is also easier to equip because of lower requirements and much, much, more common. With the way the RNG in this game behaves, I think this would be a fair argument, wouldn't you agree?


Massive Edit:


That... doesn't even make any sense.

You are ALREADY forced to rely on shops for buying everything. And the prices in those shops ARE going to either go down, or remain stagnant. This is a good thing.

Currently, as it is, your money is guaranteed to go down in value as the money supply just continues skyrocketing. Like Arika pointed out, this is abundantly obvious in the prices for themed AC items - going from 500k, to 1m, to 2m, to 3m, to 4m month after month. This means you HAVE to play A LOT just to keep up with the prices - if you don't have a constant meseta income, it just keeps getting worse and worse and eventually you just can't afford any of these outfits. Reducing the money supply itself will keep your meseta from eventually becoming utterly worthless, which means you don't have to spend hours upon hours farming just to keep up with an explosively unstable market.

Of course, they could also fix this just by decreasing AC scratch prices or selling items separately... but this is SEGA. We all know how this works by now.

My only concern with this is that they're only slowing down the speed at which we build money. The way things seem with me is that, while this probably will indeed lower prices....won't prices still slowly increase? It's just that each individual Meseta is worth more. *shrugs* At any rate, speculation on this won't do much, other than either infuriate the community more or.....I don't even think there is an alternative in this case, actually. >_>;

Arika
Oct 4, 2012, 08:32 AM
For PSO2, what this will do is force people to rely on shops(I don't), not everyone likes a AH based economy(I don't) cause idiot pricing - and it will entice people to look for shop tickets, or go premium(see what I'm getting at?). Now you're at the mercy of drop rates, hoping that big ticket item drops so you can sell it for millions.

Quite the opposite, so far all the players I know who are using premium atm is planing to stop being premium because they see no point to try to gain meseta anymore when all the future rare is self finding.

Slidikins
Oct 4, 2012, 09:14 AM
Quite the opposite, so far all the players I know who are using premium atm is planing to stop being premium because they see no point to try to gain meseta anymore when all the future rare is self finding.As a premium member, let me be the fish that swims against the current. I bought premium because I wanted to support the game financially and don't really like the concept of putting $3 into a slot machine. Once I had premium I started making a lot more meseta. Lots more than I got from playing casually. (I play a solid 2-3 hours a night if I can and rarely 'farm.') The amount of FUN I had skyrocketed which meant more scratches which ended up in more music discs and other goods that rake in some nice meseta. Those will still be in the shops. I would sell 4-slot items with decent affixes from completing Matter Boards. Those will still be in the shops. A decent Gwana Soul can go for 10-15k (and higher!) on Ship 09 and beats the 1k you'd get from vendoring it. Those will always be in the shops.

I had never received a My Shop ticket until after I got premium (ironically, I've gotten 4 since), so without premium I couldn't sell any of that. I'd say my income quintupled after getting premium just from being able to sell "mundane" items. I never sold rares. Just good abilities, FUN scratch items, and the occasional male costume as fodder. All of which I'll still be able to sell without issue. Maybe this is small-fry money to the rest of you, I dunno. Conversely, that money being used to buy rares. It went into grinding and affixing (and buying the abilities I did need).

I just don't see how this deters someone from buying premium. Maybe for the 'hardcore, farm all day' types that make their money selling top rares for 6 million+, never relax in their room, and want no part of Team Storage, but not the casual gamer. And from my experience, the casuals are the ones who spend the most in the cash shops.

Bottom Line (tl;dr): this probably won't affect SEGAs bottom line too much.

Eternal255
Oct 4, 2012, 10:22 AM
[QUOTE=BIG OLAF;2865160]That's what I was thinking, too. With super-high-end rares being untradable and unsellable, some people are never going to get their hands on one, what with PSO2's 1/35843394290389 chance of getting a red drop.



ur kidding about the drop rate thing.......right? it's not that low?

psodc's drop rates were close to that xD well close to like 1/1mil or something on really good items. but that game was hacked to all hell so not like it mattered.

and the drop rates are not that bad in this game. ive literally found everything i use except for cruel flouga (which i bought cuz fuck tundra) and the calivari wing arm piece (sp)

ZeGoose
Oct 4, 2012, 10:27 AM
Can anyone give their input on the hybrid classes? I know it is not out yet but draw your experience from PSU. I played as a Fighgunner way back when and felt like my damage was subpar compared to a full fledged hunter. I don't want to make the same mistake again when PSO2 releases in North America.

Rien
Oct 4, 2012, 10:29 AM
Well, if we go off of just base stats, then sure, but it's a heck of a lot easier to +10 an Alva Calibur and Affix it than it is to do the same to that Ardillo.

And that Alva Calibur is also easier to equip because of lower requirements and much, much, more common. With the way the RNG in this game behaves, I think this would be a fair argument, wouldn't you agree?

I'm not sure on affixing, but I believe someone out there had researched and found that +8 (which is really the furthest you go before your doodoo hell becomes poopoo hell) grinding a 8/9* weapon would yield a higher overall output compared to a +10 5* weapon because lol hidden ability boost (or something to the same effect as having more ability)

edit: Oh god I just re-read my post and burst out laughing xD poopoo hell, that's a new one

Tenlade
Oct 4, 2012, 10:29 AM
As a premium member, let me be the fish that swims against the current. I bought premium because I wanted to support the game financially and don't really like the concept of putting $3 into a slot machine. Once I had premium I started making a lot more meseta. Lots more than I got from playing casually. (I play a solid 2-3 hours a night if I can and rarely 'farm.') The amount of FUN I had skyrocketed which meant more scratches which ended up in more music discs and other goods that rake in some nice meseta. Those will still be in the shops. I would sell 4-slot items with decent affixes from completing Matter Boards. Those will still be in the shops. A decent Gwana Soul can go for 10-15k (and higher!) on Ship 09 and beats the 1k you'd get from vendoring it. Those will always be in the shops.

I had never received a My Shop ticket until after I got premium (ironically, I've gotten 4 since), so without premium I couldn't sell any of that. I'd say my income quintupled after getting premium just from being able to sell "mundane" items. I never sold rares. Just good abilities, FUN scratch items, and the occasional male costume as fodder. All of which I'll still be able to sell without issue. Maybe this is small-fry money to the rest of you, I dunno. Conversely, that money being used to buy rares. It went into grinding and affixing (and buying the abilities I did need).

I just don't see how this deters someone from buying premium. Maybe for the 'hardcore, farm all day' types that make their money selling top rares for 6 million+, never relax in their room, and want no part of Team Storage, but not the casual gamer. And from my experience, the casuals are the ones who spend the most in the cash shops.

Bottom Line (tl;dr): this probably won't affect SEGAs bottom line too much.

Actually its quite the opposite. the people who buy the cash shop items are people who would play enough to require 2 characters, tweak enough to require multiple skill trees, collect enough rares to warrant premium storage etc.

Part of the appeal of having meseta for these players is being able to spend it to buy things for their character, and if the rares they want aren't available then there is little incentive to make meseta. If a player has to grind for thier drop, they are more likely just to get the money needed to power it up in the 300 hours it will take them to find it, even with reduced vendor trash rates. And after that what do you need money for?if they want to sell stuff they can probably wait until they get a 3 days ticket, not like they're in a rush to get money until they find the rare they want.

Zyrusticae
Oct 4, 2012, 10:30 AM
Can anyone give their input on the hybrid classes? I know it is not out yet but draw your experience from PSU. I played as a Fighgunner way back when and felt like my damage was subpar compared to a full fledged hunter. I don't want to make the same mistake again when PSO2 releases in North America.
Some hybrid classes will be better than others, but none of them should be "gimped" (as none of the base classes themselves are "gimped" in any way).

Fighgunner should actually work fairly well in this game, especially with the way chaining works (which I believe is weapon-independent).

Rien
Oct 4, 2012, 10:32 AM
FO/GU hybrid.

I don't even--

(and yes, I do know someone planning this)

Zyrusticae
Oct 4, 2012, 10:35 AM
I just realized how incredibly stupid limiting 10* rares and lv.11+ discs is...

Because now the only things with any level of demand are going to be certain 8-9* rares, units with certain affixes, and FUN/AC items. And that's it.

So AC items are proooobably going to go up in price even more as a result of players having fewer options to purchase with their meseta.

Grumble, grumble, mutter, mutter...

(Though this depends on just how severely they curtail vendor prices...)



My only concern with this is that they're only slowing down the speed at which we build money. The way things seem with me is that, while this probably will indeed lower prices....won't prices still slowly increase? It's just that each individual Meseta is worth more. *shrugs* At any rate, speculation on this won't do much, other than either infuriate the community more or.....I don't even think there is an alternative in this case, actually. >_>;
No, see, the way it works is... money faucets (or generators, like selling to vendors) have to be balanced against money sinks (like grinding and affixing, which are the biggest ones atm) to keep the money supply constant. Currently, the faucets are pouring out an incredibly high amount of money that the sinks simply cannot absorb.

As it is, they probably still need to add a bigger market tax to increase the amount of meseta going out of the economy.

Arika
Oct 4, 2012, 10:41 AM
As a premium member, let me be the fish that swims against the current. I bought premium because I wanted to support the game financially and don't really like the concept of putting $3 into a slot machine. Once I had premium I started making a lot more meseta. Lots more than I got from playing casually. (I play a solid 2-3 hours a night if I can and rarely 'farm.') The amount of FUN I had skyrocketed which meant more scratches which ended up in more music discs and other goods that rake in some nice meseta. Those will still be in the shops. I would sell 4-slot items with decent affixes from completing Matter Boards. Those will still be in the shops. A decent Gwana Soul can go for 10-15k (and higher!) on Ship 09 and beats the 1k you'd get from vendoring it. Those will always be in the shops.

I had never received a My Shop ticket until after I got premium (ironically, I've gotten 4 since), so without premium I couldn't sell any of that. I'd say my income quintupled after getting premium just from being able to sell "mundane" items. I never sold rares. Just good abilities, FUN scratch items, and the occasional male costume as fodder. All of which I'll still be able to sell without issue. Maybe this is small-fry money to the rest of you, I dunno. Conversely, that money being used to buy rares. It went into grinding and affixing (and buying the abilities I did need).

I just don't see how this deters someone from buying premium. Maybe for the 'hardcore, farm all day' types that make their money selling top rares for 6 million+, never relax in their room, and want no part of Team Storage, but not the casual gamer. And from my experience, the casuals are the ones who spend the most in the cash shops.

Bottom Line (tl;dr): this probably won't affect SEGAs bottom line too much.


This is why many of people I know not plan to get shop/premium anymore:

For casual players:
-really, unless he/she is someone who buy AC scracth items to sell it. His shop won't really profit him much anyway. because he won't gain enough rares/items to sell. and even if he luckily get something.. it is cheap. So the shop option won't really help much to worth it. he probably get more by selling Ac scratch.

For hardcore players:
You will gain enough meseta to grind your rare during the time you spend on finding that rare anyway. So there is really no point to try to keep a lot of meseta anymore. So no longer need to have a shop. (and I think most hardcore now already have over 40 mil anyway)





As it is, they probably still need to add a bigger market tax to increase the amount of meseta going out of the economy.

Yes, increase tax could work too. and I don't mind if they available 10* weapon to sell, even thought they may set it with 100% tax price. (so it will burn the meseta off from the rich players)

Crysteon
Oct 4, 2012, 11:05 AM
This is why many of people I know not plan to get shop/premium anymore:

For casual players:
-really, unless he/she is someone who buy AC scracth items to sell it. His shop won't really profit him much anyway. because he won't gain enough rares/items to sell. and even if he luckily get something.. it is cheap. So the shop option won't really help much to worth it. he probably get more by selling Ac scratch.

For hardcore players:
You will gain enough meseta to grind your rare during the time you spend on finding that rare anyway. So there is really no point to try to keep a lot of meseta anymore. So no longer need to have a shop. (and I think most hardcore now already have over 40 mil anyway)

Yes, increase tax could work too. and I don't mind if they available 10* weapon to sell, even thought they may set it with 100% tax price. (so it will burn the meseta off from the rich players)

*Looks at his current meseta amount being much less than 40mil*
[spoiler-box]
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/193/1279052383758.jpg
[/spoiler-box]

Actually, applying a proportional tax rate to the items according to their rarity is a better idea than nerfing the whole vendor prices of items. The current tax rate for any item at this moment is around 5%, so let's say you want to sell a 9* and that may mean your tax rate would go up to 45% (of course, that's sort of drastic at this moment but it may work like that). That may prove to be a good incentive to reduce the meseta flux in game.

Arika
Oct 4, 2012, 11:07 AM
*Looks at his current meseta amount being much less than 40mil*

Actually, applying a proportional tax rate to the items according to their rarity is a better idea than nerfing the whole vendor prices of items. The current tax rate for any item at this moment is around 5%, so let's say you want to sell a 9* and that may mean your tax rate would go up to 45% (of course, that's sort of drastic at this moment but it may work like that). That may prove to be a good incentive to reduce the meseta flux in game.

I am all for it, no matter 50% tax or 100% tax, if there is an option to sell/trade the 10* lol.

And well, in your case, you only have lower than 40 mil, because you just spent a lot already :P

Alenoir
Oct 4, 2012, 11:08 AM
I just don't see how this deters someone from buying premium. Maybe for the 'hardcore, farm all day' types that make their money selling top rares for 6 million+, never relax in their room, and want no part of Team Storage, but not the casual gamer. And from my experience, the casuals are the ones who spend the most in the cash shops.
It probably doesn't deter most people. At least, not for the few premium users in the team I belongs to. We buy premium because we get access to extra storage (this is important, we tend to keep normal weapons with good attributes) and our rooms. Having access to selling things on the shop is just and added bonus.

Well, that and the ability to sell off 4* and 5* stuffs you don't need I guess. >_>a

Crysteon
Oct 4, 2012, 11:09 AM
And well, in your case, you only have lower than 40 mil, because you just spent a lot already :P

That's sad and true, lol. I've spent so much in trivial stuff. ;_;

Eternal255
Oct 4, 2012, 11:20 AM
Idk if you guys know or not, but there IS a tax rate on items up for sale in player shops.

My friend put an item in shop for 90k for me, it was up for 92500 or so when i went to purchase it.

Im all for the MPA nerf. I love MPAing but what i really miss from PSO1 was the fact that you could only clear any given room once, clear the entire area, go to the next, repeat once or twice, then fight the boss. This will make it slightly similar (only over 4 hours). I would love for them to make the areas larger though.

And i dont see why you guys have any issues with the way sega wants to run this game (involving the AC items and such). if you guys wanna go and make a game as great (looking & gameplay) as this for absolutely no profit, go right ahead. But if you really really want a particular item, then save up the meseta and buy it (they're not gonna be making any untradable AC items, im willing to bet on that), or you know, do like i do and not gaf about having every 'costume'

Crysteon
Oct 4, 2012, 11:24 AM
Idk if you guys know or not, but there IS a tax rate on items up for sale in player shops.

My friend put an item in shop for 90k for me, it was up for 92500 or so when i went to purchase it.

Im all for the MPA nerf. I love MPAing but what i really miss from PSO1 was the fact that you could only clear any given room once, clear the entire area, go to the next, repeat once or twice, then fight the boss. This will make it slightly similar (only over 4 hours). I would love for them to make the areas larger though.

And i dont see why you guys have any issues with the way sega wants to run this game (involving the AC items and such). if you guys wanna go and make a game as great (looking & gameplay) as this for absolutely no profit, go right ahead. But if you really really want a particular item, then save up the meseta and buy it (they're not gonna be making any untradable AC items, im willing to bet on that), or you know, do like i do and not gaf about having every 'costume'

Yes, but the current rate is fixed to 5% for all kind of items. What I'm talking about is regarding implementing a variable or proportional tax rate dependant of the item rarity.

Macman
Oct 4, 2012, 11:33 AM
I like the idea behind adjusting MyShop tax rates.

Even raising it 5% per item grade (10% for 4-6*, 15% 7-9* etc etc) would do a lot to balance the money sink issue without completely gouging people.
It's also an accelerating effect because the higher rarity stuff is naturally going to be priced higher, meaning a bigger chunk of the money goes towards tax due to both the raw price of the item and the higher tax bracket due to it's rarity, meaning more money leaving the economy.

It's not rocket science, Sega. Implement this instead.

I mean, let's assume 12* items are going to be priced at least 10 million starting. The rate on 10-12* items is 20%. That means the price to the buyer would be 12 million. That's 2,000,000 meseta just taken out of the economy instantly, and both players still get what they want. In the end it just means the buyer will have to do a little extra money gathering to be able to afford it, but it SHOULD help balance the "sinks and faucets" issue.

Alenoir
Oct 4, 2012, 11:39 AM
No, SEGA just need to put in a better gold sink where people WANT to throw their meseta into, not more sales tax.

Our team thought buying TP with an abnormal amount of meseta (1k for 1TP or something) may be an interesting idea, but who knows if SEGA will take that suggestion?

Macman
Oct 4, 2012, 11:45 AM
No, SEGA just need to put in a better gold sink where people WANT to throw their meseta into, not more sales tax.
But the MyShop is the biggest mover of Meseta right now. People are buying really expensive +10 weapons instead of taking their +0 weapons to DooDoo to gamble on. It's really the only feasible way to have any actual effect without totally gimping the market by disallowing sales of 10*+ items.

Zyrusticae
Oct 4, 2012, 11:46 AM
Well, an alternative gold sink that people want to use would certainly be helpful, but the market tax has the added benefit of killing two birds with one stone - namely, the practice of buying up items for cheap and putting them back up for huge mark-ups. I wouldn't be surprised if this practice is at least partly responsible for some of the obscene prices we've been seeing lately...

Eternal255
Oct 4, 2012, 11:46 AM
TP for meseta would be a bad idea.

Macman
Oct 4, 2012, 11:49 AM
the market tax has the added benefit of killing two birds with one stone - namely, the practice of buying up items for cheap and putting them back up for huge mark-ups.
I get the feeling that would still persist, as the buyer is the one who pays the market tax, not the seller.

Slidikins
Oct 4, 2012, 11:51 AM
Actually its quite the opposite. the people who buy the cash shop items are people who would play enough to require 2 characters, tweak enough to require multiple skill trees, collect enough rares to warrant premium storage etc.Very good point. (In fact, all of the responses to my comment were worth the read :D) I may buy an additional skill tree once the subclasses come out but I didn't consider those who already have multiple builds for each class. The one item I have bought were 4 Mag tickets. That equates to 1200 AC, or 6 AC scratches. Putting it in that way, I wonder who spends more money: the person who buys "useful" things from the AC Shop or the person who needed a Kanagi Maihime (or more) the moment the servers went up...

Back to the current topic, the 5% tax definitely doesn't do much, and I'm not sure if it should really be the burden of the purchaser and not the seller. Variable tax might work but let's be realistic: if you could sell 12*s (let's just jump to the future) how much would you price them at? I remember my Psycho Wand board going for insane levels of meseta in PSU.
If it continues to stay in its current form, there’s concern that the average price for items in Player Shops will steadily rise. The economy would become harsh for new and returning players.This was the primary concern of the devs in the decision. If players could sell their 10-12* items, they'll be priced so high that it'll only increase the disparity between players. And if the burden of tax is on the buyer, the seller has no incentive not to gouge...

Eternal255
Oct 4, 2012, 11:54 AM
The tax needs to be on both purchaser AND seller. Ie, seller puts 100k item up for sale. Buyer buys it for 105k (5% tax), and the seller only gains 95k (5% tax), total loss of 10%

Zyrusticae
Oct 4, 2012, 11:56 AM
I get the feeling that would still persist, as the buyer is the one who pays the market tax, not the seller.
Well, if the buyers don't bite, there's no reason to put them up for such high prices in the first place.

But yes, it's probably better that they make the sellers eat the tax rather than the other way around. Or they could split it 50/50...

Macman
Oct 4, 2012, 11:59 AM
They could make the seller pay the tax up front when listing the item (and have a PORTION of the tax returned to them if they decide to cancel the listing).

As it stands right now with nothing coming out of the seller's pocket on listing, there's no risk at all for gouging the hell out of your item's prices. Putting the burden on them would make them think twice about what prices they want to set, making the market a little more competitive.

Eternal255
Oct 4, 2012, 12:06 PM
They could make the seller pay the tax up front when listing the item (and have a PORTION of the tax returned to them if they decide to cancel the listing).

As it stands right now with nothing coming out of the seller's pocket on listing, there's no risk at all for gouging the hell out of your item's prices. Putting the burden on them would make them think twice about what prices they want to set, making the market a little more competitive.

why DONT they do this? i know lots of other games did (WoW for example, charged you X gold to put Y item up on the AH for Z time)

it worked there especially since the fee would be based on the rarity of the item (was about 10g for 24 hours for an item that you would sell for say 100g-200g)

Enforcer MKV
Oct 4, 2012, 12:07 PM
I'm not sure on affixing, but I believe someone out there had researched and found that +8 (which is really the furthest you go before your doodoo hell becomes poopoo hell) grinding a 8/9* weapon would yield a higher overall output compared to a +10 5* weapon because lol hidden ability boost (or something to the same effect as having more ability)

edit: Oh god I just re-read my post and burst out laughing xD poopoo hell, that's a new one

A +7 Ardillo has '1' more S-ATA than a +10 Alva Calibur, +8 is somewhere around 29 more S-ATA on the Ardillo. I'm discounting the Ability boost because there's no concrete data that I've seen, so you may be right on that one.

I'm glad Doodoo seems so forgiving on your grinds, because I have trouble getting 9* past +5. :s

Eternal255
Oct 4, 2012, 12:12 PM
i successfully grinded my cruel floga from +8 to +9 on first attempt :D

I dont dare go passed that lol

Saffran
Oct 4, 2012, 12:29 PM
Another good way of limiting the insane amount of money available would be to ban the bots. I counted 38 of them on the block I was just a couple of days ago.
Splitting the fees, getting higher fees is good too, I agree.

I would, strictly speaking for myself maybe, appreciate a higher doodoo fee option in exchange for higher rates. Like maybe 8x the grind price for a guaranteed +8 grind attempt? But only as an option. You can either take your chances and go the very expensive way, or go the safe and quite expensive way.
Dunno, just throwing an idea here.

Enforcer MKV
Oct 4, 2012, 12:32 PM
Like maybe 8x the grind price for a guaranteed +8 grind attempt? But only as an option. You can either take your chances and go the very expensive way, or go the safe and quite expensive way.
Dunno, just throwing an idea here.

I like that, actually. Though I suspect many won't, for whatever reason. Do hope I'm wrong, though.

CelestialBlade
Oct 4, 2012, 12:48 PM
A +7 Ardillo has '1' more S-ATA than a +10 Alva Calibur, +8 is somewhere around 29 more S-ATA on the Ardillo. I'm discounting the Ability boost because there's no concrete data that I've seen, so you may be right on that one.

I'm glad Doodoo seems so forgiving on your grinds, because I have trouble getting 9* past +5. :s
Yeah, and there's no way the "hidden Ability" is worth the horrific price gap between 5*s and 9*s anyway. Maybe if you're gifted and have 50 million Meseta spilling out of your ass, but not for 90% of the playerbase like me that have earned a total of maybe 10 million over the course of the game.

Sure, an equivalent 10* is going to beat a 6*. But not by an amount that's going to make it worth 15 million more, base, before surely-impossible grinds. I'm definitely going to hunt 10*s (Absolute Blade *drool*) but I will guarantee you I'm going to get a hell of a lot more use out of a customized and grinded 6* for about 10% of the financial worth.

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 04:05 PM
The price of ardillou is an example of diminishing returns. You CAN get more damage, but it will cost you considerable amounts of money.

I'm okay with ardillou price and rarity.

Making defense cheaper than offense is a nice way to set things up in this game.

dablacksephiroth
Oct 4, 2012, 04:43 PM
Word spreads too goddamn fast. I am finished pursuing this item. It's only going to go up as I continue to farm, as well as items with abilities. Souls are also about to go up, now that everyone realizes they have to make their own Soul + Ability(s).

[spoiler-box]http://imageshack.us/a/img801/559/pso22012100416385971.png[/spoiler-box]

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 04:45 PM
Souls are about to go up, but not because of the 10* change. How else do you make up for atk differences? People are going to be doing soul+stat on loooots of allclass items, very soon.

Enforcer MKV
Oct 4, 2012, 04:49 PM
Word spreads too goddamn fast. I am finished pursuing this item. It's only going to go up as I continue to farm, as well as items with abilities. Souls are also about to go up, now that everyone realizes they have to make their own Soul + Ability(s).

[spoiler-box]http://imageshack.us/a/img801/559/pso22012100416385971.png[/spoiler-box]

*sigh* and so things slowly begin spiraling farther downwards....

COMPLAIN, JP COMMUNITY, COMPLAIN!

dablacksephiroth
Oct 4, 2012, 04:51 PM
I wish I could stock up before the rises, but as a freeloading player, I only have 50 player slots and 200 Inventory slots. I'm already at 75 (My version of empty) as is when I bother to go out to farm. It will make farming even more tedious with LESS and less space to work with.

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 05:27 PM
I haven't bothered to sell soul items for the last month, so I'm sitting on like 20+ quartz souls in units alone. Only now am I cashing in anything because I want to grab a couple cosmetics. Most of the stuff I expect to skyrocket, well, that I'm holding on to.

Reyva
Oct 4, 2012, 05:27 PM
Seems like Sega used a little bit too much of R.Kelly's doo doo butter on this patch. In fact, they used the whole tub on it for this next patch.

Next thing you know, they'll reverse this doo doo patch later on like Koffee's quests.

Think I'm looking forward to FFXIV 2.0 more than this game now (And that game was a barrel of laughs at start). In other words, Sega pulling a "Square-Enix" lately with things. Just how I feel bout things.

eharima
Oct 4, 2012, 05:32 PM
Not to mention, Grinders have rocketed to 7k today from 5k yesterday.
Anyone who thinks any of this 'combat inflation' will balance economy is foolinthemselves.png

The only thing it will affect is shit rares and cheap stuff will be cheaper, and the more expensive rare will stay the same value OR RISE.
It will mainly only affect 1-4k item that vend for that price, so base value will be set by the new vend price.

Its all nice them limiting games to 4hr and such, but we wouldnt hunt more efficent maps if there WAS JUST MORE FUKEN SPAWNS~~~
seriously, too much runnan, not enough killan.

Boss drop meseta and meseta drop general is a joke, seriously pointles to even pick it up.
im looking at you 2+1meseta.

grind price is reduced? this is stuipd unles, they balance each *rare category appropritaly to not penalise the new and tax the rich accordingly. doubt that sega,
the only sink that balances this out is grinder price, but it just moves money.

dont get me started on fucking 10* and lv11 disks lol
Unless your going to implement 100% rare drop boosters for AC like exp boosters, not AC scratch
then you might get my money, sega, im still boycotting your scratch roulette.

speaking of roulette, you wanna slow inflation and take money out?
PUT A FCKING CASINO IN. you're slow.

and lol at that guy that thought AC scratch is pay to win and RNG =/= skill/ equality lolwut?

anyway, feel free to use your overtly poilte japan in this suggestion box ^^

https://ssl.pso2.jp/players/support/inquiry/?mode=opinion

valmont
Oct 4, 2012, 05:54 PM
just add meseta scratch @50k meseta/scratch..
put some cool/cute costumes in it.. XD

blace
Oct 4, 2012, 06:17 PM
just add meseta scratch @50k meseta/scratch..
put some cool/cute costumes in it.. XD

And watch as your meseta drains away just for a costume you can't use.

gigawuts
Oct 4, 2012, 06:25 PM
just add meseta scratch @50k meseta/scratch..
put some cool/cute costumes in it.. XD

The funny thing is, this would be perfect.

valmont
Oct 4, 2012, 06:57 PM
And watch as your meseta drains away just for a costume you can't use.

thats the point.
and dont forget to put lots of grinder and synthetizer to sink more mesetas, and make people furious..

Omega-z
Oct 4, 2012, 06:57 PM
Just a random thought would Team storage be hammered like the trading and selling? since it works a little different then the other two. And would promote more team play and sharing of goods. Thoughts?

blace
Oct 4, 2012, 07:22 PM
thats the point.
and dont forget to put lots of grinder and synthetizer to sink more mesetas, and make people furious..
I played a game that did something like this, but with weapons. If you want something that is overpowered spend in game currency on it, if you want looks spend real money on it. The only difference is that the items that were gained were mostly timed seldom permanent, the same with clothing.

Exiled_Gundam
Oct 4, 2012, 09:04 PM
Yeah they are. o.o

Okay, maybe a bouquet rifle doesn't trump all the common rifles, but an Adirou (whatever you wish to call that sword) is indeed better than all the other swords...

Hmm but second strongest sword (Dinia Edge) only lack 26 damage (+10) from +10 Ardillo, and you can find one at less than a million meseta

Arika
Oct 4, 2012, 11:55 PM
Just a random thought would Team storage be hammered like the trading and selling? since it works a little different then the other two. And would promote more team play and sharing of goods. Thoughts?

Since it says "no matter any method" so I think that won't work too. it probably same thing as team-co items that IP-bound when you pick it.

NoiseHERO
Oct 5, 2012, 12:17 AM
I'm kinda just now realizing the whole "rares now drop 20-45 or 25-50%" thing

That actually would drop the price of pretty much ALL of the rares in the market sitting up there for subpar elemental %'s. Or it SHOULD... unless the people that put them up died/lost premium. >_>;;

Arika
Oct 5, 2012, 12:20 AM
Little sad that JP aren't the country who like to boycott.

Else we probably see something like " Make 10* trade-able or all of us stop premium together" :p

Saffran
Oct 5, 2012, 06:58 AM
I spent some time reading the 154 (at the time) comments on the blog entry, it does seem to me that a few people complain and try to bring sound arguments to it.
Ultimately, everything could change again a couple of updates down the road, so I'm not too worried.

I really hope they do take measures against the bots, though.

Cardinalgate
Oct 5, 2012, 08:30 PM
Square Enix did something like this for FFXI to combat RMT and it worked without really hurting the Economy, CaveJP did something like that for Shin Megami tensei IMAGINE cuz ppl was Grinding on Plasma's for 1 hour and gaining 5m makka in the end it killed the game and the game dont pull as much money as it use too bad move

Rien
Oct 5, 2012, 09:27 PM
I spent some time reading the 154 (at the time) comments on the blog entry, it does seem to me that a few people complain and try to bring sound arguments to it.
Ultimately, everything could change again a couple of updates down the road, so I'm not too worried.

I really hope they do take measures against the bots, though.

There's over 200 now.

<.<

Chik'Tikka
Oct 5, 2012, 09:38 PM
Little sad that JP aren't the country who like to boycott.

Else we probably see something like " Make 10* trade-able or all of us stop premium together" :p

仕方がない+^_^+

Griffin
Oct 5, 2012, 09:48 PM
仕方がない+^_^+

"Kawaii desu"?

Chik'Tikka
Oct 5, 2012, 10:08 PM
"Kawaii desu"?

仕方 shikata が ga ない nai, "It cannot be helped" reflects a fatalism and passivity on the part of many Japanese people who had been educated to accept the inevitable and neither argue with authority nor fight against arbitrary and bureaucratic rules.

They may show Sega they don't like the changes, but many may not go any further to fight against them other then maybe not playing, it's now up to Sega to pay attention to their customers and fix any issues that result from their decisions in this update+^_^+

Griffin
Oct 5, 2012, 10:31 PM
Eh, I like Kawaii desu better. :U

Rien
Oct 6, 2012, 03:47 AM
Eh, I like Kawaii desu better. :U


Nothing about this update is cute.

Nothing.

Arika
Oct 6, 2012, 12:22 PM
Just going to add this little input.

A lot of JP has request in Sakai official blog that they demand 10* item + to be able to trade with the equal rarity weapon. (Eg. you can only trade 10* item to 10* item between player)

They are saying that premium option to trade is just useless if you can't trade rare weapon. Rare weapon trading is the main focus on trading system, so disable it will only make it become useless and also discourage players to pay for premium. Some explain that allowing to trade between equal rarity only wouldn't ruin the inflation problem, and will be a helpful solution when you get something u can't use.

BIG OLAF
Oct 6, 2012, 01:06 PM
Nothing about this update is cute.

Nothing.

Yeah, we've got to wait for the next scratch update for that (two weeks from this Wednesday, I think).

iTz PooKiie xx
Oct 6, 2012, 02:34 PM
Yeah, we've got to wait for the next scratch update for that (two weeks from this Wednesday, I think).

Indeed good sir:)

Stormwalker
Oct 6, 2012, 02:42 PM
Just going to add this little input.

A lot of JP has request in Sakai official blog that they demand 10* item + to be able to trade with the equal rarity weapon. (Eg. you can only trade 10* item to 10* item between player)

They are saying that premium option to trade is just useless if you can't trade rare weapon. Rare weapon trading is the main focus on trading system, so disable it will only make it become useless and also discourage players to pay for premium. Some explain that allowing to trade between equal rarity only wouldn't ruin the inflation problem, and will be a helpful solution when you get something u can't use.

I had brought up this very idea in team chat (and I think even on this forum, somewhere). Suffice to say I agree. Trading 10* for 10* would at least save us from having useless 10*'s and help us to use the 10*'s we *want* rather than being at the mercy of the ones we find. And since you would need a 10* to get a 10*, it preserves the uniqueness of the truly rare weapons.

gigawuts
Oct 6, 2012, 04:09 PM
Just going to add this little input.

A lot of JP has request in Sakai official blog that they demand 10* item + to be able to trade with the equal rarity weapon. (Eg. you can only trade 10* item to 10* item between player)

They are saying that premium option to trade is just useless if you can't trade rare weapon. Rare weapon trading is the main focus on trading system, so disable it will only make it become useless and also discourage players to pay for premium. Some explain that allowing to trade between equal rarity only wouldn't ruin the inflation problem, and will be a helpful solution when you get something u can't use.

I was thinking about this, but then you run into the issue of needing a unit of currency to pick up the slack of value. I mean, looking back to the PSO days, where meseta was unusable for rares (for different reasons), without photon drops you'd be looking at trading a high value rare for nothing but another high value rare. Nobody would trade a high value rare down to multiple lower value rares. You couldn't ever hope to get something like a Sigh of a God for a handful of sanges and demo comets, for instance, unless the player was either daft or in dire need of some sanges and demo comets.

So now what's needed is a unit of currency separate from meseta, ideally with droprates independent of PSE boosts and number of players, that only drop X times per hour or somesuch. Something like PD's, which were hardcoded how often they dropped based on difficulty.

Now you're looking at PSO1's economy and actually I like it, let's do it.

NoiseHERO
Oct 6, 2012, 04:32 PM
I remember when they said photon drops would have a use "soon" back before michella NPC came out...

I'd imagine we'd get more...

...

...joke weapons?

Rien
Oct 6, 2012, 08:53 PM
inb4 you forge 10* weapons with photon drops.

...Okay, it won't happen even for over 9000 drops, but it'd still be a good joke! :C

Macman
Oct 6, 2012, 10:55 PM
The whole "trade 10* for 10*" deal is sound and all but you forget one thing. Both parties still would need premium to do this, bringing this game even closer to pure P2W.

Arika
Oct 6, 2012, 11:34 PM
The whole "trade 10* for 10*" deal is sound and all but you forget one thing. Both parties still would need premium to do this, bringing this game even closer to pure P2W.

and JP does not mind that at all, especially old PSO1, PSU players, they never have it free month.
as the previous post they mention that the idea of 10* vs 10* trade is to keep the value of trading system and make it not worthless( when they already pay 1300 extra for it.) The trading would become worthless if you can't trade rare. that is the key.

Enforcer MKV
Oct 6, 2012, 11:38 PM
The whole "trade 10* for 10*" deal is sound and all but you forget one thing. Both parties still would need premium to do this, bringing this game even closer to pure P2W.

Let's try and avoid that poor outcome...That'll just kill the game in the states, and add another game to the list of 'examples of why F2P is bad.'

....Definitely need to avoid that.

Just let us sell and buy the blasted equipment. If we lower the amount of Meseta flowing into the game, then hopefully - hopefully that'd help. Put scaling tax on the items, introduce more money sinks into the game, raise the drop rate.... Hell, even put a cap on the price you can set on weapons (also scaling).

Literally the only problem I have is that weapons 10*+ aren't going to be tradable/sellable. I'm even okay with the disks not being tradable.

Heck, introduce Scape dolls into the game as items you purchase with (a lot of) meseta and not AC. I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet that Sega would lose 'less' profit if they did this and let 10*+ be tradable. Reason being it seems like a lot of people are going to be dropping premium since the shop loses a lot of purpose once these 10* items roll out.

Zyrusticae
Oct 6, 2012, 11:53 PM
I'm even okay with the disks not being tradable.
And the only reason you're okay with that is because you don't play Force... :roll:

NoiseHERO
Oct 7, 2012, 12:00 AM
if techs/PAs don't change at level 11 no one will care...