Changes to PSO2 economy

[Kion]

Detailed in Sakai's blog post: Oct. 3 2012
http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11370519420.html

For the sake of how long this took to translate i hope it hasn't been posted before.

Several changes are being made to the play style of PSO2 in the coming update. Three major problems have been brought to our attention.

1. Random fields
Players have found that sticking to random field gets the most gain from farming endlessly. The ruins the chances of meeting new players.

2. Getting rare items
Rare items can be attained from player shops much easier than actually farming for the item. This ruins the experience of actually attaining the item. As such most players end up farming for meseta in order to buy items from player shops in order to get the items they want.

3. Selling items to NPC's
Higher ranking items can be sold to NPC's for more than they should be valued. This leads to an environment where the value of money decreases and people have to farm more and more for items from player shops.

A such the current economic state of the game is as follows:
--------------------------------------------------------------
a. Any item can be gotten from the player shops
b. Rather than hunting for the item, buying it is much easier
c. In order to buy a good weapon, lots of money is needed
d. Random areas are farmed and items are sold to NPC's
e. The item can then be obtained
f. -and then further sold for additional money
And the result is continued inflation

We recognize that this does not have a good influence on those who play the game and have decided to make the following changes.

1. Quest rooms will now have a time limit
X: Each quest will have a time limit to complete that quest. Going over the limit will end in a ''quest failure'.
Response: As this just allow the players to re-select the same mission this has not been adopted.

X:After a certain number of enemies have been defeated no more will appear.
Response: This will affect any players entering after the limit has been reached and has not been adopted.

O:If a room has been active for a long time enemies will stop appearing.
Response: As this has little effect on other parties, this idea will be put into effect.

2.My Shop Issues
X: Reduce the drop rate
Response: Reducing the drop rate simply punishes players

O: Reduce the NPC buying price.
Response: This will be put into effect.

3. Game Economic
X: Make all items and disks non-tradable
Response: Just no.

X: Set a limit on how much items can be sold for.
Response: the market decides that

O: Make all 10☆ Weapons, units and disks above level 11 non-tradable.
Response: As this has the least impact on the current economy this will be put into effect.

●For rares 10☆ and above and Level 11 disks:
For the new items that will be come available in the next update be be player bound and be un-able to trade or sell in player shops.

This is only for the new items described. This will not affect 9☆ items and level 10 disks.

For players worried about surplus weapons, Sega will think of ways to utilize them besides selling them to NPC's.

●Changed to NPC shops.
For new players, the price of 1☆ gear will be increased.
Cost modifiers for elements on 7☆ items and above will be changes from 10~35% to 20~45%.
Special weapons will get elements from 25%~50%.
Bosses and rare enemies will now drop more meseta.

●Changes to Quest Fields
A field will now have a maximum of 4 hours. After 3.5 hours no new parties will be able to join the field.

●Players Breaking the Rules
Reiterating, Players who manipulate the client and cheat will have their accounts banned.

[blace]

I expected something like this to happen sooner or later. Goodbye to random MPA's for hunting items for Client Orders.

What are the 'X' and 'O' sections? I'm assuming those were fan suggestions that were rejected(X) and accepted or changed(O).

[Meji]

I think PSU blog already beat you too it (they posted it yesterday), but still kudos to you for the translation!

[Nerineri]

I think people knew about this already since I saw some discussion about it already. I read the whole article off bumped though.

I'm a little tick about sega regarding rare though. Well, I had to buy my rare because I hunt the Gilnach for 3 weeks, and Garland wouldn't drop for me. And around that 3 weeks, I accrued enough meseta to buy myself a Garland. So why should I waste more time hunting for it when I have enough meseta from the period of hunting it to buy it?

They could have make the rare that you want drop a little easier /sulk.

[Kion]

I think PSU blog already beat you too it (they posted it yesterday), but still kudos to you for the translation!

...:cry:

I didn't see anything on the main page so i decided to go for it. For me this seems incredibly stupid on Sega's part and it's mostly because of extremely poor drop rates. Nothing ever drops and then only way to get items is to save up from farming. As it's pretty much faster and guaranteed way to actually get what you want. And Sega's solution is to prevent players from selling items, effectively destroying the entire point of playing the game in an online community!!?? Fuck this.

[Xaeris]

"For players worried about surplus weapons, will will still be able to sell them to NPC's."

Oh, thank goodness.

[Gama]

the only thing i dont agree with is lvl 11 techs and 10 star weapons, the rest will help improving the game experience.

[blace]

the only thing i dont agree with is lvl 11 techs and 10 star weapons, the rest will help improving the game experience.
Forcing sellers to price their items lower by forcing buyers to gain less meseta from selling junk to NPC's?

I used to think the drop rates in PSO were unforgiving and somewhat better in PSP2/i, but this really does take it a whole step lower. I can see this not being much of a deterrent, and still see skyhigh pricing made even more impossible.

[Shirokami]

So it wasn't just my impresson.
One/Two weeks ago when I began playing, basic Ragna souls shitty Units were around 4k.
I think their price is now around 9k? Prices doubled?

[Alucard V]

Or (and this is just a thought here) stop being so GREEDY.

Edit: On 2nd thought the only reason people buy stuff from player shops is that they cant find it in the field.

[Retehi]

Or (and this is just a thought here) stop being so GREEDY.

Asking that of any virtual economy is like trying to squeeze water from a rock.

[Alucard V]

Or (and this is just a thought here) stop being so GREEDY.

Edit: On 2nd thought the only reason people buy stuff from player shops is that they cant find it in the field.


Asking that of any virtual economy is like trying to squeeze water from a rock.

If Sega made the grinding process a little easier maybe people wouldn't rely on the player shop so much. Stopping the problem where it starts.

[Takatsuki]

You know why the economy sucks? The Recycle shop.
If they got rid of it and just made everything on the recycle shop into AC/FUN items, the economy would drastically improve.

[NoiseHERO]

"You can now trade AC items to the recycle sho-

/clothing goes from 1050 meseta to 100k over night before the actual update.

[Z-0]

Simply put, the economy sucks because it pretty much favours the lucky on a terrible RNG system.

Most people have bad luck finding rares.
Most people have bad luck grinding rares.

The solution? Buy the item from the player shop by just farming the meseta to buy it, as that's infinitely faster unless you're really lucky. I recently bought a +10 Gramasciento with Spirita Boost, Technique III and Ragne Soul for 6,300,000 million, which is way more than the meseta I've earned trying to just hunt it, so I'd say it's quite worth it.

If things actually dropped and grinding was made realistic, people would be less reliant on the player shop and this "inflation" wouldn't occur due to less demand.

[Alucard V]

An't that the truth.

[Angelo]

The whole 'people lose the thrill of finding the rares themselves' goes straight out the window when you can't trade rares.

In the original PSO, I don't think anyone got all the rares they wanted, they usually ended up getting something that someone else wanted and traded.

This all sounds like 'having your cake and eating it too' nonsense to make the game stretch with monotony.

[Alucard V]

Simply put, the economy sucks because it pretty much favours the lucky on a terrible RNG system.

Most people have bad luck finding rares.
Most people have bad luck grinding rares.

The solution? Buy the item from the player shop by just farming the meseta to buy it, as that's infinitely faster unless you're really lucky. I recently bought a +10 Gramasciento with Spirita Boost, Technique III and Ragne Soul for 6,300,000 million, which is way more than the meseta I've earned trying to just hunt it, so I'd say it's quite worth it.

If things actually dropped and grinding was made realistic, people would be less reliant on the player shop and this "inflation" wouldn't occur due to less demand.


The whole 'people lose the thrill of finding the rares themselves' goes straight out the window when you can't trade rares.

In the original PSO, I don't think anyone got all the rares they wanted, they usually ended up getting something that someone else wanted and traded.

This all sounds like 'having your cake and eating it too' nonsense to make the game stretch with monotony.

Two good points made already. The Scratch Card system hasn't helped things much either. Even if you pay for the ARK Cash there nothing to say your going to get the item you want. Which leads to people looking for it on player shops.

[Kion]

My main two problems with this game is that 1. rares are bound on equip. Basically prices would probably be a lot cheaper if people could sell their old gear back into the economy, I mean if you manage to pick up a rare, you're at least going to try it out. So you can either test it out, or sell it for money to other players who are looking for it. As people who are looking for it obviously aren't putting their items back on the market, that means the only weapons on the market in the first place are from people looking to profit from their luck.

And 2. The drop rates are down right shitty. I can't even remember how many runs I spent trying to find a strause rifle. Some where between 30-40 runs and that took me way beyond the threshold of the game being remotely fun anymore. It just made me mad at life (and sega) going though the same grey/brown level by myself over and over and over again. Rares being rare gives a sense of satisfaction to the game, but PSO2 is really beyond madness when a 7☆ rifle, that's not even the strongest around is freaking rarer than blue diamonds. I ended up running the level so many times that I had one million accumulated from all of the random shit i sold the NPC (and a couple of random rares), that I was able to buy one from the shop.

So the new changes go further to ruin the horrible system that's already in place. Get rid of the locking weapons to accounts so they can be sold back into the economy keeping prices in check. And make drops reasonable so that people can play the game they want to play and not be forced to buy it from player shops. Getting rid of the ability to buy/sell and trade rares completely destroys the point of playing the game in an online community. And for Sega it also negates reasons for people to buy premium sets to be able to sell items in their shop. This is a really stupid decision for a company that's already two hairs short of being apes.

[Omega-z]

^this and this,

Sega needs to add straight prices on the AC item's and not a Scratch/Lottery. Some item's be worth more then other's ...ie. a wedding dress $15 a rappy suit $3....in the future newer thing's being even $30. Ether way people will pay for it but won't have problems with Measta Inflation.

But they could cap the prices on item's based on there appearance rate's that way item's worth is base on there rarity. So putting a Cap limit of 1mil (an example) at first only dropping based on rarity and having Sega increasing that cap every time we have a lv increase (now it would be like 3mil), Instead of not being able to trade or sell them.

So like Grinder's and the like won't be like 100K for one or having worry about AC item's being insane amount of $. Everything else would be on rarity rate's, having us focus more on upgrading to Doodoo the Evil Voodoo Witch Doctor ( renamed to Dudu in a newer patch I guess it's because he's a peice of crap ). Thought's

[Alucard V]

And 2. The drop rates are down right shitty. I can't even remember how many runs I spent trying to find a strause rifle. Some where between 30-40 runs and that took me way beyond the threshold of the game being remotely fun anymore. It just made me mad at life (and sega) going though the same grey/brown level by myself over and over and over again. Rares being rare gives a sense of satisfaction to the game, but PSO2 is really beyond madness when a 7☆ rifle, that's not even the strongest around is freaking rarer than blue diamonds. I ended up running the level so many times that I had one million accumulated from all of the random shit i sold the NPC (and a couple of random rares), that I was able to buy one from the shop.

So the new changes go further to ruin the horrible system that's already in place. Get rid of the locking weapons to accounts so they can be sold back into the economy keeping prices in check. And make drops reasonable so that people can play the game they want to play and not be forced to buy it from player shops. Getting rid of the ability to buy/sell and trade rares completely destroys the point of playing the game in an online community. And for Sega it also negates reasons for people to buy premium sets to be able to sell items in their shop. This is a really stupid decision for a company that's already two hairs short of being apes.

That I agree with and the only way around that is with "Drop Rate Boost" items from the ARK Cash/Recycle Shop. To which would have them hope that people would buy ARK Cash. That's the business model anyway.

[Chik'Tikka]

Or (and this is just a thought here) stop being so GREEDY.

Edit: On 2nd thought the only reason people buy stuff from player shops is that they cant find it in the field.

lol, i was called greedy for putting a 10+ Duel Gaze for 3.5 using my shop ticket, but i can't and won't lower it (since i has no shop now) and Miko set which i want is still way high (4 mill?), looks like ima spend my weekend farming as much as i can+^_^+

[Alucard V]

lol, i was called greedy for putting a 10+ Duel Gaze for 3.5 using my shop ticket, but i can't and won't lower it (since i has no shop now) and Miko set which i want is still way high (4 mill?), looks like ima spend my weekend farming as much as i can+^_^+

But do a Miko's Robes or a Rappy Suit need to cost 4 million meseta?

[Alenoir]

For players worried about surplus weapons, will will still be able to sell them to NPC's.
No, that line said they're looking into other ways for player to "use" their extra high level rare weapon other than selling them to NPCs.

[Kion]

No, that line said they're looking into other ways for player to "use" their extra high level rare weapon other than not selling them to NPCs.

Thanks. Fixed.

[Tenlade]

But do a Miko's Robes or a Rappy Suit need to cost 4 million meseta?

Yes, because sega wants your money by making the AC scratch seem like a better deal.

Except for the part where they make it a better deal instead of a shitty lottery. I would gladly buy a 1000 ac color change ticket or my favorit outfit sega, why do you not want my money?

[Alucard V]

Yes, because sega wants your money by making the AC scratch seem like a better deal.

Except for the part where they make it a better deal instead of a shitty lottery. I would gladly buy a 1000 ac color change ticket or my favorit outfit sega, why do you not want my money?

But having it sit in a player shop for 4 Million meseta isn't helping Sega either. But people will pay that or more for Scratch Content.

Now if Sega had a AC costume shop for that instead, it might be safe to say that half the problem would be gone.

[Chik'Tikka]

But do a Miko's Robes or a Rappy Suit need to cost 4 million meseta?

you selling one for cheaper??? *logs on and looks* no, your not, but if you wanna sell for cheaper let me know!! i really miss when new clothes from scratch were only 500K-1 mill, and while i only had 3 days of shop, i priced not in accordance with how much i could make, but rather by how much the things i want are+^_^+

[lunarsoul]

With all of these weird changes (starting from the now 30 min Emergency Quests) and of people have been put off with PSO2 getting more and more limited and have been quitting. I can see that these new changes will continue to make people more frustrated in that they dont have more freedom and will quit. SEGA is shooting themselves in the foot. But I guess thats expected, SEGA will always find a way to have an interesting idea burn in to the ground, because of their stupidity and sometimes discrimination. I have had some buddies quit because of the now 30 min EQs. And now I have more buddies planning to quit because they simply cant sell their items or do as they please when this new update comes.

[Brus]

Unsellable for a trillion meseta is one thing, but untradeable is really stupid. I play a ra/gu and my brother plays a fo/te, many times we find rares that the other one can use and we give them to each other. I still get excited when I find FO rares because I know at least one of us can use them.

I'm not looking forward to finding a 10 star talis that I can sell for 2000 meseta to the shop counter.

That is stupid.

[Stormwalker]

If they won't let us sell them, it would at least be nice if there was some sort of way that you could trade your 10* rare for someone else's 10* rare, straight-up. It'd be a good way to get some use out of the weapons you can't use yourself.

[Tomeeboy]

Just wanted to post and say thanks for the translations Kion! I used some of the information that both you and Mike posted for our front page story (http://www.pso-world.com/news/02461-pso2-jp-additional-changes-economy-october-10th-detailed-official-blog) covering these changes and gave you guys credit. Thanks again ;)

[Mystil]

With all of these weird changes (starting from the now 30 min Emergency Quests) and of people have been put off with PSO2 getting more and more limited and have been quitting. I can see that these new changes will continue to make people more frustrated in that they dont have more freedom and will quit. SEGA is shooting themselves in the foot. But I guess thats expected, SEGA will always find a way to have an interesting idea burn in to the ground, because of their stupidity and sometimes discrimination. I have had some buddies quit because of the now 30 min EQs. And now I have more buddies planning to quit because they simply cant sell their items or do as they please when this new update comes.

The reduction to EQs hit me the most as well, and I sure miss City missions. Seems like we're being spammed with Vardha and Cave EQs.

I'm not gonna quit since I told someone I wouldn't and they told me not to leave them. But geez.. these changes is really limiting on the fun factor. 3hrs in a field goes by so fast.. And if these "timers" they gonna put in is anything like ragne city, as soon as the timer is up, you're kicked out.

But yeah, I expect the population to drop considerably.

And whats with today and people being control freaks??? You can't FORCE people to MEET new players, good grief..

A free game though...this time around they aren't going to get hurt in the pocket, no matter how much they bork the game.

[eharima]

A free game though...this time around they aren't going to get hurt in the pocket, no matter how much they bork the game.

That's not how investment to loyalty business model works....
I very much doubt they are out of debt from the fue months they have taken money....

[Omega-z]

One thing they might do. Since all drop's are player only they could make it that only the drop's of the class you are will drop only instead of something you can't use.

[AzureBlaze]

Omega-z:
THIS
"Since all drop's are player only they could make it that only the drop's of the class you are will drop"

I am another of these "never gets a use-able rare" people who hate the ban on trading and selling. If I get something, it's going to be some FO item that I can't ever use. I know why they make stuff that's not your class drop...it's to encourage you to keep playing & change classes to use it. But for people who try a class, don't like it, and then their only real good things are FOR that class they'll never be...AND they can't get rid of the items...it's endless frusteration.

Picking up cool stuff for friends was a lot of the fun for me.

Are they doing this in response to the ACTUAL econnomy or the bogus "Chinese Hackers" created meseta-for-sale economy?

That other post on here makes me have doubts. (Hackers on ship 10 - is what its called) Are they going to punish the entire game because these bots or hax people or whatever with the gibberish names are just spamming all the meseta out & causing inflation?

There are tons of gibberish name clones running around. I've bumped into several. I'd blame them for the "Grind economy" and "Terrible shop prices" before I'd blame the humble npc buying weps off of law abiding folks who don't buy meseta nor farm it for dollar sales.

Hopefully the REAL fix (patching that "make everything spawn" at once) is found.

[BIG OLAF]

There are tons of gibberish name clones running around. I've bumped into several.

So have I. I've seen 12/12 multiparty areas full of them. Names like "ddffdfff" and shit like that. Is that what they are; Chinese RMT/meseta-grinding accounts?

[blace]

So have I. I've seen 12/12 multiparty areas full of them. Names like "ddffdfff" and shit like that. Is that what they are; Chinese RMT/meseta-grinding accounts?

They are. They plague other online games with mule accounts for the sole purpose of trading it for real money.

[Dextro]

Ever wonder why you see random monomates on the shop for 3,000,000? That's someone RMTing. Probably worth noting if it's an English player you see doing it...

[Cranberry]

That could be the case, but it's not always the case. I've had cases on PSU where someone was giving me some Meseta to help me get started, or I had loaned someone some Meseta and they were going to pay it back later, where I was having trouble actually meeting up with the person. To get around this, I simply put a monomate in the shop for a high amount.

You don't want to just automatically assume the player is Real Money Trading just because they are selling a common item for a high price. Sometimes its just a convenient way of exchanging meseta without having to meet up with the person in real time.


Ever wonder why you see random monomates on the shop for 3,000,000? That's someone RMTing. Probably worth noting if it's an English player you see doing it...

[Misaki Ki]

Don't start blindly going after people for monomates in their shops. Even I've used it on occasion as a way to trade meseta without having premium.

I've also done what Cranberry said in PSU. It was a very good way for people to repay you, or for you to repay them. (Of course the taxes in PSO2 make both less desirable.)

[Mystil]

That's not how investment to loyalty business model works....
I very much doubt they are out of debt from the fue months they have taken money....

They don't care about the money.

[eharima]

They don't care about the money.

Source?
The producer might not, but the developer sure does...
And if push comes to shove, the woman shuts up when the men are talking business.

[Macras]

you know, i've been looking at the issue of "getting rare items from shops more than the field" and i cant help but feel its an issue with the drop rate more so than the fact people can just buy them....

[Kion]

you know, i've been looking at the issue of "getting rare items from shops more than the field" and i cant help but feel its an issue with the drop rate more so than the fact people can just buy them....

I wrote a comment on Sakai's blog saying something to that effect. Basically that locking weapons on accounts after equipping takes them out of the economy and drives up the price. And that drop rates are so poor that, people get millions of meseta left over from farming for items that dont drop, which pretty much validates the prices.

Unfortunately skimming though the comments, it looks like most people just replied, "thanks sega, now i can enjoy finding items myself now". We'll just how to see how sega implements this. I can't help but feeling it's really going to gimp the game unless they make changes to drop rates and which rares drop for waht classes. Even that is still removing an entire aspect of trading and cooperation from the game.

After looking at a bunch of reviews for guild wars 2, it makes me wish that this game was managed by anyone but sega. They know how to make some good gameplay, but past experiences from pso, psu and now pso2,it seems like sega is just completely incompetent in that regard.

[Sp-24]

These changes are bad news for people who like buying AC Scratch stuff for meseta and for those who like to grind things.

[Chik'Tikka]

I wrote a comment on Sakai's blog saying something to that effect. Basically that locking weapons on accounts after equipping takes them out of the economy and drives up the price. And that drop rates are so poor that, people get millions of meseta left over from farming for items that dont drop, which pretty much validates the prices.

Unfortunately skimming though the comments, it looks like most people just replied, "thanks sega, now i can enjoy finding items myself now". We'll just how to see how sega implements this. I can't help but feeling it's really going to gimp the game unless they make changes to drop rates and which rares drop for waht classes. Even that is still removing an entire aspect of trading and cooperation from the game.

After looking at a bunch of reviews for guild wars 2, it makes me wish that this game was managed by anyone but sega. They know how to make some good gameplay, but past experiences from pso, psu and now pso2,it seems like sega is just completely incompetent in that regard.

That's that shikata ga nai　「仕方がない」 mentality right there, no one wants to "rock the boat” or stand up to "authority", they'll just nod their heads and when they realize they've been duped, they'll just silently trickle away without saying anything＋＾＿＾＋ ima go play gears now, where if i don't want my lancer, i can trade it with another person for a retro+^_^+

[Mystil]

Source?
The producer might not, but the developer sure does...
And if push comes to shove, the woman shuts up when the men are talking business.
Does this even need to be debated between us? There's no need for a source. It's clearly obvious. You don't even need to look at PSO2 to believe this. Not even their online department. Oh geez, SONIC WHO?

Yeah ok.

It doesn't matter how many quit.
It doesn't matter how many JP players complain(they get special treatment to a certain point haha)
It doesn't matter how INCONVENIENT the game is.

They will not deviate from their ways what so ever and "do what's right". You can use PSU as a corner stone for this. Version 1 was the herald of what was to come later.

[Sp-24]

Yeah, since when do companies care about money, Sega especially? I mean, the proof is right there: PSO2 is FREE to play!

[Enforcer MKV]

Yeah, since when do companies care about money, Sega especially? I mean, the proof is right there: PSO2 is FREE to play!

If this is sarcasm, forgive me. Lack of tone on the internet, and all that.

The idea behind free to play is that, instead of charging for admission, you charge for a bunch of novelties and luxuries.

They charge for rooms, they charge for the ability to trade, and they charge for the roulette that determines if you can get clothing (the Gacha.) The philosophy behind F2P is you make players 'want' to spend money to gain access to nice things, like living quarters and costumes, in this case. How is usually turns out is thus: a small percentage of players, usually ranging between 5~10% spend a vast amount of money on the game. The remaining percentile either spends a small amount of money (a gacha spin here, an inventory expansion or character slot there) or no money at all. Ideally, they give you enough core features that you 'want' to give them money so the game flourishes and continues. In it's worst form, it's constricting P2W; where you're unable to stand up to the paying players. F2P itself isn't a bad model; it's mostly poor execution that gives it a bad name.

Also, F2P often gives them a larger player base, which, in a lot of cases, allows them to show off and say "Oh, look how many people like our game, X number of people have made accounts." even if the numbers are usually 'total' instead of 'average concurrent' players.

[Bael]

If this is sarcasm, forgive me. Lack of tone on the internet, and all that.

The idea behind free to play is that, instead of charging for admission, you charge for a bunch of novelties and luxuries.

They charge for rooms, they charge for the ability to trade, and they charge for the roulette that determines if you can get clothing (the Gacha.) The philosophy behind F2P is you make players 'want' to spend money to gain access to nice things, like living quarters and costumes, in this case. How is usually turns out is thus: a small percentage of players, usually ranging between 5~10% spend a vast amount of money on the game. The remaining percentile either spends a small amount of money (a gacha spin here, an inventory expansion or character slot there) or no money at all. Ideally, they give you enough core features that you 'want' to give them money so the game flourishes and continues. In it's worst form, it's constricting P2W; where you're unable to stand up to the paying players. F2P itself isn't a bad model; it's mostly poor execution that gives it a bad name.

Also, F2P often gives them a larger player base, which, in a lot of cases, allows them to show off and say "Oh, look how many people like our game, X number of people have made accounts." even if the numbers are usually 'total' instead of 'average concurrent' players.

+1...I'm with the epically badass cast.

[eharima]

Does this even need to be debated between us? There's no need for a source. It's clearly obvious. You don't even need to look at PSO2 to believe this. Not even their online department. Oh geez, SONIC WHO?

Yeah ok.

It doesn't matter how many quit.
It doesn't matter how many JP players complain(they get special treatment to a certain point haha)
It doesn't matter how INCONVENIENT the game is.

They will not deviate from their ways what so ever and "do what's right". You can use PSU as a corner stone for this. Version 1 was the herald of what was to come later.

So, because Sega have a slightly obscure product vision, and marketing strategy,
By your logic, they don't care about money?
Do you think the board of directors are sitting round making symbol arts and shit?

Everything else is just your opinion.
And sticking to an original concept, but making on the fly changes (albeit minor) to meet consumer demand (as proven by survey) proves that they listen and want to deliver loyalty based business model content, therefore, implying they care, indirectly, about money.

And comparing (I assume you mean) pso ver1 and psu console games with non modifiable (by sega, you know what im implying here) client content and structure to a new, young in development, dynamic and controllable game is hardly a good comparison.

Trust me, the AC purchase logs and spenditures will be monitored very closely and reported frequently inline with scheduled forecasts and key performance indicators.

Heck, they even have a whole website dedicated to the business.
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/stock/stockprice.html

Have you never experienced a professional environment?
ask your uncle at seg.... no, seriously tho,

What do you suggest? How 'should they' run their business? Please elaborate on 'whats right'
Follow the call of duty model? Seems to be popular...

do you have much experience in the jorpg market? Periused Hangame?
DID YOU EVEN PLAYED MR.CEO???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1S7dtezl5Y

[Macman]

What the hell is eharima trying to convey here?

[Bael]

It's business speak and bad tying.

SOmesays sega don't care about money....he's says they do and the 'cash register' say they are making serious bank.

Oh, and he learned all this from a video game.

[Renvalt]

He's essentially saying that:


-Mystil doesn't know firsthand what goes on in the SEGA of America offices whilst they are managing the game. This is true - if anyone of us knew exactly what was going on, we wouldn't be here (or even be allowed to talk about it due to NDA crap) now would we?
-That Mystil thinks that two games which used a pay to play model will dictate the success (or lack thereof) of a game which uses a completely opposite payment model.

From a standpoint of having played F2P games for a good amount of time, the two models work very differently - if you start with F2P off the bat, chances are you're gonna attract a lot of people initially because there's no risk to just jumping right in and playing.

Also, this game has (from my point of view) one of the best formats for an F2P game - it is not outrageously Pay 2 Win. Sure, the MyShop helps, but not only is there a way for one to get it for free (albeit only for three days - but it's not a one-time deal), but it's not exactly necessary. From my experience, gear /= skill. Sure, it helps, and of course there will be demand for rare items for those who can't farm hours on end, but not all players are people who are too lazy to farm or simply don't have the time.

IOW, there's no way to know if this game will fail only because the biggest hurdle facing us right now is the NA MMO communities' lack of desire to learn Japanese to play this game as it is right now.

Once the game hits Stateside, we can judge accordingly. But if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion, I'd advise against flaunting your stuff from the JP version. It won't help the NA version any.

I mean, this stuff we have now is great, but sometimes ignorance is bliss, y'know? If they don't know it exists, then you can easily make hype simply from that void of knowledge.

And in this way, those who hated the JP version may be encouraged to research it to know more about it - thus getting rid of the NA ignorance that our MMO community is well known for.

[Gama]

Pso2 is an investment.

they want to make monney from it, simple.

if it wasnt profitabble by now, sega would either make big changes and try again, or shut it down.

[gigawuts]

No, I doubt they'd shut it down if it wasn't profitable yet. A F2P game is a long term investment, you want people coming back and coming back. You want them telling their friends. If you expect only a certain percentage to be paying customers, and only for so long, you want people telling their friends who tell their friends who tell their friends. Advertising is of course a big help, but the main bulk of players will be brought in by other players.

This is their powerhouse. A lot of work went into this. Money, time, effort, and man hours that would have been spent on another game. They need this to work. They'll keep this up a long time, I expect longer than PSU or all versions of PSO1 combined.


But, then, I think they're making money hand over fist on this game, so this is all moot. I'm more curious what the new changes will do to their profits. I have a feeling they're getting greedy. Nerfing player shops by making 10*'s untradable? Mhmm. They wouldn't do that if they weren't already doing well. That's one less reason to give them money.

[Sp-24]

It's not one less reason to give them money. Since 10* equipment and lv.11+ disks are going to be better than things that are allowed to be traded, less people will be interested in spending meseta on those items. That meseta will instead go towards AC Scratch and Recycle Shop stuff, making those items harder to get through player shops. People who still want to get them will have to take buying AC into a stronger consideration than before. So, it's one less reason to give them money for some people (most likely those who didn't in the first place), and one more reason to do it for others. That's how free to play system (as well as any other business model) works - you balance the amount of people that you will interest in your product with the amount of people you'll piss off in order to maximise profits.

But you are 100% right about them getting greedy.

[Meji]

Well said Renvalt, totally agree.

[adblog]

Untradeable is really stupid. Sega is really stupid. We play the game with many friends. We need to exchange item with each other.

Fuck Sega.

[gigawuts]

Sega is not stupid. They may seem like it, often, but they're not. They have a lot of voices telling them a lot of different things, and they have to figure out which ones are speaking for either the majority or at least a semi-informed point of view.

They, like most game companies, fail miserably multiple times.

Sega's taken player input about PSO2 to heart numerous times already, and have implemented many player-requested changes. For Sega, this is pretty much unheard of. They've always been one of those closed-system companies, who only do their own stuff, and never listen to other players. Turns out, players might actually be on to something when they give suggestions, and now they're listening.

When there is an uproar, if there is an uproar that is (I mean who knows, maybe 10*'s drop as frequently as 5*'s), Sega will be forced to listen. Their job is basically to entice us into paying - all of us. They want us happy enough to want to buy clothes and shit.

In the F2P world an unhappy customer is a not-playing customer, and a not-playing customer is almost certainly a not-paying customer.

There is an ENTIRELY different mentality in P2P systems, where even unhappy customers won't stop paying because they don't want to just sacrifice their progress. The company has more breathing room with mistakes they can make. It takes a major disaster to lose droves of players in P2P systems because of this "it can't be helped" mentality. In F2P games that's just gone, and players stop playing at the drop of a hat to pick up some other, newer F2P game.

[NoiseHERO]

Sega is not stupid. They may seem like it, often, but they're not. They have a lot of voices telling them a lot of different things, and they have to figure out which ones are speaking for either the majority or at least a semi-informed point of view.

They, like most game companies, fail miserably multiple times.

Sega's taken player input about PSO2 to heart numerous times already, and have implemented many player-requested changes. For Sega, this is pretty much unheard of. They've always been one of those closed-system companies, who only do their own stuff, and never listen to other players. Turns out, players might actually be on to something when they give suggestions, and now they're listening.

When there is an uproar, if there is an uproar that is (I mean who knows, maybe 10*'s drop as frequently as 5*'s), Sega will be forced to listen. Their job is basically to entice us into paying - all of us. They want us happy enough to want to buy clothes and shit.

In the F2P world an unhappy customer is a not-playing customer, and a not-playing customer is almost certainly a not-paying customer.

I'm definitely not looking forward to these changes, even though I'm prepared for things to get worse. But I do agree so far they've been trying to listen to the players at least they have multiple times so far in GENERAL.

I think at most they want to see how things play out, before they cave in and change their minds. Or they'll force us to stick with it "for the greater good" of new players. e_e (like nerfing clessidia orders)

[Mystil]

It's a bit late for them to start wising up. Say, a decade too late.

We will see just how enticed people are in playing after tonight.

[Limbo_lag]

Due to the restriction in trading 10*'s, I suspect that grind-related goods (such as -1 risks) will go up in value. Might want to stock up.

[Blueblur]

This crap really makes me happy that I stopped playing. These changes are terrible.

[Lostbob117]

I don't know is it just me or are Zanbas highering in price a lot? :l

[yunamon]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

http://twitpic.com/b2rj98

[Rien]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/full/669771836.png?key=1041842&Expires=1349859678&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=jTOMhrQ3VoeINmlvUzhQjOvVVZDwQ7y99y33Xr4d gtUxD2DP3BwtunLtXBheNIZK0k2CuoU8ezBN5A-bnaRjGZxRjqcW6v5A735JDOu5n7n7NFvKcGX9u67XqP8oy2XBx 29Gsh09s2YDA7OikGdT2Mre2iVYyQykoOsryRGItaw_

...your link isn't working.



Sega's taken player input about PSO2 to heart numerous times already, and have implemented many player-requested changes. For Sega, this is pretty much unheard of. They've always been one of those closed-system companies, who only do their own stuff, and never listen to other players. Turns out, players might actually be on to something when they give suggestions, and now they're listening.

When there is an uproar, if there is an uproar that is (I mean who knows, maybe 10*'s drop as frequently as 5*'s), Sega will be forced to listen. Their job is basically to entice us into paying - all of us. They want us happy enough to want to buy clothes and shit.

In the F2P world an unhappy customer is a not-playing customer, and a not-playing customer is almost certainly a not-paying customer.

And in F2Ps they don't listen to the non-playing/paying customers

So by that mentality everyone who plays is happy

Therefore they don't have to change anything

...See the problem?

[yunamon]

...your link isn't working.

Fixed

[Rien]

...it's now more efficient to fill your inventory with boss drops in an MPA then stop and farm codes/green box meseta drops instead I guess.

[gigawuts]

HA HA HA OH WOW

You might think this is a spam post, and honestly you'd be right if I didn't expound on it.

[Xaeris]

*sees new vendor prices*
*laughs*

Oh Sega. You so funny. Oh you, Sega.

[Enforcer MKV]

So....how 'does' the market look? Any changes?

If they do, it probably won't be fore a few days, but I just thought I'd ask.

[Reiketsu]

The rich stay rich, the poor gets even poorer. That will be the only "change" in the economy.

Now it's just like in real life, lol

[Enforcer MKV]

Now it's just like in real life, lol

'MURICA!

[BIG OLAF]

Now it's just like in real life, lol

I was gonna say that, myself.

Also, I find it hilarious that you can barely break even now when selling junk/buying healing items.

[EvilMag]

I was gonna say that, myself.

Also, I find it hilarious that you can barely break even now when selling junk/buying healing items.

Dude I had a full bank full of junk sold it all. Only made around 25k...

[Crystal_Shard]

I was gonna say that, myself.

Also, I find it hilarious that you can barely break even now when selling junk/buying healing items.

Oddly this might be something with a practical solution. When grindng for cash, just remember to sub in Force / Techer for cheap healing.

[Alenoir]

Also, I find it hilarious that you can barely break even now when selling junk/buying healing items.

Or feed your mag one of those devices that makes it produces a mate item once in a while. I'm swimming in monomates 'cause of that.

[Engeline]

I hope these changes affect the prices for those accessories, 2 million meseta is a bit much for those..

[kkow]

had no idea they would nerf npc junk sales by like 80%........ thanks sega, i can't even break even with healing/revive items anymore. also miko clothes still 4 mil.

[EvilMag]

Whats funny, you can still make a lot of meseta off doing the daily TA COs.

[Polly]

Whats funny, you can still make a lot of meseta off doing the daily TA COs.

Sounds kinda like this game's White Beast when it's put that way.

[EvilMag]

Sounds kinda like this game's White Beast when it's put that way.

Only difference is that you can only do the COs once a day.

[Z-0]

Just a shame they stopped allowing Rafoie to attack enemies in the Lilipa pods to make it TAKE LONGER. -_________-

I bet you they've also edited it so you can't skip over the last attack in Continent with mechguns either, although I haven't tried after the update, but I'll test later.

[Halvaard]

Boss rewards seem to have improved a little in Normal at least.
I was running Free Forrest looking for Gorrongos for my Subcalss License, and in 3 runs I ran into 2 Dark Ragnes, 2 Fang Banshees and 1 Fang Banther, most of which dropped abit more Meseta than what I normally see(in larger amounts too)

Ragne is still pretty dumb though, he got stuck on a tree during my second encounter, so I shot him with rockets until he died. XD

[BIG OLAF]

I don't see how they planned to "fix" the economy by slowly driving everyone broke. I keep losing money every run, since the weapons that used to be 1.2k are now worth maybe 300 meseta. I don't know where SEGA is going with this idea, but it's not going to work. I highly doubt prices for anything, especially clothing/accessories, will drop more than a very minimal amount.

[Dammy]

have you seen Garland prices?

[Alenoir]

Red miko, at the moment, on ship 2, is 3.6mil. If you have money stocked now's your chance. :c

[Cry0]

I lolled when I ended up with less money at the end of the day then at the start. All I bought were healing items. I did feed a mag a bit too.

Seriously? I think the whole point was to make non-AC players bankrupt, and to make it so you no longer can aqcuire rare unless through finding them yourselves. Which on one hand is nice, but the other... you have no money for improving or grinding your weapons so A lot of players will be left int he cold.

I was thinking very seriously about going premium after the update. Now i'm just laughing in sega's face. No money for you, sega.

fix:
1) Not allowing subclasses to use all weapons
2) srsly? at least let us break friggin' even on a normal run. lulzeconomy.
3) No new sword/partisan pa's? Eff U.


I played Vindictus (Mabinogi heroes) for a while a while back. And what seriously bothered me was the accessability of new gear, weapons, ... you really needed to grind constantly, and getting ahead always seemed to go oh-so-slow. PSO2 really did not have that feeling up until now. It felt very rewarding in almost every way.
Not anymore though. I really hope I don't lose the nerve to play this game now, because ti is really good at the core. But ah well. SEGAC.

[Zyrusticae]

How can you not break even on a normal run?

Are you...

Are you a mate-eater?

Because you shouldn't be a mate-eater.

Mate-eating is bad, m'kay!

[Rien]

How can you not break even on a normal run?

Are you...

Are you a mate-eater?

Because you shouldn't be a mate-eater.

Mate-eating is bad, m'kay!

I'm pretty sure I drink mates instead of eating them...

[Crystal_Shard]

How can you not break even on a normal run?

Are you...

Are you a mate-eater?

Because you shouldn't be a mate-eater.

Mate-eating is bad, m'kay!

This would have been most appropriate had they changed the mate usage animation back to the old injection one. XD

[Kion]

How can you not break even on a normal run?

Are you...

Are you a mate-eater?

Because you shouldn't be a mate-eater.

Mate-eating is bad, m'kay!

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/objection.jpg

Really not sure what you're even trying to get at there...

[Metaru]

If there were Hobo Arks members id be one, I'm broke as shit on this game.

[ShadowDragon28]

I spend quite a bit of meseta just buying mates and attempting ability affixes (once in awhile) or to grind a weapon sometimes, and that leaves me with 30-60k.

They've made it 100x harder to earn meseta now, and this to me discourages using the Tekkers/affixers. I think there doing this to push more people into buying AC for Arks Scratch, and to buy Premium...
But these changes punishes semi-casual and players that spend 90% of their game time solo; like me ,and it's way too harsh on us "low wage"/low funds Players. Way too harsh IMO

If they want to decrease item inflation in Player Shops. Put in a flat, blanket cap of "cannot exceed 500,000 meseta" for all items/weapons/units. Cap the amount a Player can put anything up for. 500k MAX cap for player shop. It's that frackin' simple. CAP IT.

Plus, Allow trade of 10 star to 13 star weapons, but disallow the player shop of selling of 14 and 15 star rares ONLY.

Making 10 and 11 stars items and up non-tradable is STUPID IMO. Because players that find 10 and 11 star "rares" that they have NO use for are stuck with them with the way it is now.

[GreenArcher]

If they want to decrease item inflation in Player Shops. Put in a flat, blanket cap of "cannot exceed 500,000 meseta" for all items/weapons/units. Cap the amount a Player can put anything up for. 500k MAX cap for player shop. It's that frackin' simple. CAP IT.


No. No, no, no, and no.

Then the game will turn into PSO, where money has no value, and instead some item will become the basis of value/item for item trades will be done instead, further limiting a F2P player.

[Alenoir]

Meseta was actually heading toward the "no value" direction before they put this in. =\

[Renvalt]

Someone said that the recent blockage of most foreign credit/debit cards was cause to believe this meseta nerf was a means to drive us out through self-banning - meaning we quit en-masse because we can't use AC to keep up with the prices.

Sounds like the Japanese themselves want us to go, and they're raising prices on all of us to try and force us out through attrition.


.... At least, that's what the conspiracy theorist in me thinks. Don't know what their intentions are, but is anyone prepared to ride this shit out if that's the case?

[Dextro]

> Play a male character
> Play a class combo with resta.
If you can't make money you can sure as hell save it >_>

[Tenlade]

> Play a male character
> Play a class combo with resta.
If you can't make money you can sure as hell save it >_>
i feel sorry for female players, they get just flat out screwed on clothing prices, and most will never save up for anything beyond the outright pitiful starting outfit selection.

and god help you if you are leveling a mag, now you will just be completely unable to afford feeding it.

[Rien]

i feel sorry for female players, they get just flat out screwed on clothing prices, and most will never save up for anything beyond the outright pitiful starting outfit selection.

and god help you if you are leveling a mag, now you will just be completely unable to afford feeding it.

Caseals get it slightly better.

Slightly.

[[Ayumi]]

All I know is when the halloween outfit come out, if I can't get one in all black due to low meseta (and maybe the accessories), I'm going to be super mad as hell.
I think I made 150k today... well no I nded the day with 150k and that's only because I'm a Force... killed so many bosses so many drops and only 150k... ugh!

[zamoth]

I don't know anything about economy, but I guess the prices will go down in the next weeks. It's like the bath problem. If you reduce the meseta income with everything else constant, the total amount of meseta on the ship will go down. But it will take some time...

... I hope ^^

[Chik'Tikka]

^ it won't go down, it'll always be rising, it just won't rise as fast and thus shop prices won't rise as fast, i don't expect any prices to go down, just level out, next top female outfit will be 4 mill-ish too instead of 6 mill+^_^+

[jooozek]

I can't imagine how people will be able to get meseta to affix their stuff with even the most basic combo (some soul + some ATK ability), I've tried affixing yesterday a 6* sword and it cost me 15k for each attempt.

[Arios]

Someone said that the recent blockage of most foreign credit/debit cards was cause to believe this meseta nerf was a means to drive us out through self-banning - meaning we quit en-masse because we can't use AC to keep up with the prices.

Sounds like the Japanese themselves want us to go, and they're raising prices on all of us to try and force us out through attrition.


.... At least, that's what the conspiracy theorist in me thinks. Don't know what their intentions are, but is anyone prepared to ride this shit out if that's the case?

100% of the Japanese players buy AC? I don't think so. Do you really think they would alter the game like that just to remove foreigners? They would just IP ban and end of history if they wanted something like that.

RMT is the reason they nerfed the NPC shops. There's no way in hell that a player that earns his meseta selling junk to the NPC is capable of inflating the market, a RMTer though, can.

[Keii]

^ it won't go down, it'll always be rising, it just won't rise as fast and thus shop prices won't rise as fast, i don't expect any prices to go down, just level out, next top female outfit will be 4 mill-ish too instead of 6 mill+^_^+
The prices for 4-6 star weapons in player shops are already a few times lower than they were before the patch.

[Ezodagrom]

After a change like this to the vendor prices, it takes time for things to stabilize in the player shops, it's not something that would change in a day.
No idea if player shop prices will realy lower in the future, but only thing we can do is wait and see.

[Alenoir]

After a change like this to the vendor prices, it takes time for things to stabilize in the player shops, it's not something that would change in a day.
No idea if player shop prices will realy lower in the future, but only thing we can do is wait and see.

Some stuffs dropped rather quickly. I had to reprice all the leftover 4*/5*s in my shop because they are being sold for a few k lower than what their going price was two days or so ago.

The only thing that actually sold that was priced above the old going price was the Fan Blair. >_>

[Z-0]

4*/5* prices most likely dropped due to the additions of 6* in Very Hard.

Plus 4/5* seem really common now.

[Zyrusticae]

i feel sorry for female players, they get just flat out screwed on clothing prices, and most will never save up for anything beyond the outright pitiful starting outfit selection.

and god help you if you are leveling a mag, now you will just be completely unable to afford feeding it.
The more irritating thing - for me, at least - is that if they just sold clothing articles separately, the supply would actually match the demand. Instead, 50% of the clothing is male and 50% of the clothing is female when 75% of the population plays female characters...

It's fucked up, mang!

[Coatl]

I think it's safe to say that farming MPs for meseta is now only 20% as efficient than it was before, due to the decrease in meseta your vendored drops go for now.

The only efficient ways to make meseta now seems to be:
1. Have premium and farm rares to sell in playershop.
2. Buy a lot of gold scratch and sell all your female costumes for 50mil.
3. Complete the Time Attack client orders.

I know the majority of players are limited to the last option, but perhaps this is what PSO2 is advancing towards: rewarding people who succeed in challenging scenarios.

[Kion]

As far as vendor prices go, after playing I found i really don't mind. We'll see what changes lower mate prices bring, but yeerday but yesterday i found that I was playing more carefully to try and conserve items, rather than playing lazily and stocking up full items each stage. Also it seems like they increased drop rates. I found two 9* star units, and a 7* wand and the 8* double saber in two hours last night. Could have been a lucky break, but items dropping more often with higher elements on them is definitely more rewarding. So surprisingly sega might have struck a decent balance on this update. i dont know how not being able to trade 10* gear is going to play out though.

[gamerxps]

i like stalking these forums about pso2. and been stalking for awhile now decided to make an account just for the sole purpose in a reply towards this update.

i swear i hope the NA will not turn out like this.

Why did they suddenly decide to change the mesa selling NPC. the game been out for how long? aint it abit to late for that now everyone has to re-adjust and some probably wont even do it. due to the fact that the sellers know that the buyer has the money before the patch.

so if the seller keeps the price, and seller B goes hmm how come Seller A doesnt drop so seller B will keep his price as it is also. People are assuming that player will lower the item price because of the less gain in Mesa. That just make items have a unrealistic amount of value. (Ex. Kimono before the patch was 105k-200k, After Patch 2mil)

Tbh the mesa change would only make sense if everyone was able to freely Trade or put items up for sell. so then it would actually be a stable way of making a little cash. but the fact that we cant freely trade or sell items. Forces alot of player to either Buy premium or farm 24hrs just to gain a total of 10-20k mesa which isnt even enough to cover pots being used,upgrading items. APPRAISING ITEMS (15K to Tekker).

If player are complaining about, "well it defeats the purpose of attaining rare on your own". why dont they just make the rare drops .01 or .02% like other games have it. FFS look at the gunslash 7* there probably is like 100 pages of them. The fact that sega make the rare drops easily attainable is the reason why people prefer to just buy it then have the worse luck ever and farm weeks for it. i can easily farm 10-15 rares in less then 4hrs that how easy it is before patch. but the fact i cant sell it, i just sell it to npc atleast it give me more then enough to support my char in mission.

The mesa change is a total Fail, 1 run i make about 1.5k-2k Max mesa now. that like what 1 revive or 2 trimate LOL. definitely gonna have this thread on an archive for NA. so maybe the NA service wont make the same mistake.

oh id like to say the most funniest crap, if anyone has ever been on the actual JP thread, people that complain that mesa should be lowered got what they wanted but now they arent happy about how TOO low it is..like really -.-

[Rien]

If player are complaining about, "well it defeats the purpose of attaining rare on your own". why dont they just make the rare drops .01 or .02% like other games have it.

If you've ever bothered to hunt any popular 8/9* weapon (Adirou, Garland, Aristein, Jade Racion etc) you'd know the drop rates are really that low.