Discussion on Lowering the Cost of the Monomate

[Artificial Sky]

I've been reading around the Very Hard Mode discussion thread. There is a concern that it isn't difficult enough. Here's the link:

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201325

Recently, players have criticised the lowered profits they receive from vendors. Sakai and his team have responded very quickly, to their merit. They will decrease the cost of monomates and the other necessities in hopes of giving the player back his or her profits. Here's the link detailing the changes and line of thinking.

http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-emergency-maintenance-to-fix-the-exp-curve/

I understand this concern. It sucks when you've spent a couple hours or more grinding and find that you make an economic loss at the end. But doesn't this raise some concern over how we should be playing the game?

My point is, the player can lower the cost of necessities by refining his or her technique. It comes down to timing and awareness, with valuable meseta on the line. It's a great incentive to actively improve!

However, there are a number of effects this kind of thinking could have. One, the threshold of player generosity could lower considerably. There will be players with lapses in judgment and will die. Then it becomes a question of who will revive them? If at all? Moon Atomizers are perceived as expensive. The overall attitude of the community could transform from forgiving to critical. That can also be bad and good.

It's apparent that SEGA wants this game to be accessible, since a higher playerbase increases potential money profits. People are nicer, and more generous. The trade off is that players are lazier and more reckless with their play.

So, should the cost of player necessities drop? Or should they stay the same? What other ethical issues might arise from this action? Why?

I look forward to your insights.

[eharima]

ill put a pd in tha auction house for 5mill, let me know when you buy it with that method,
as regardless of your improved skill, you will still be maikng 80% less money.

[Kanade]

I find people die more because they don't heal, they figure they can just use their skill to dodge of whatever but then they end up dying anyways... now their mindset will be reinforced with "Monomates cost so much, I can't be using these."

[Zyrusticae]

ill put a pd in tha auction house for 5mill, let me know when you buy it with that method,
as regardless of your improved skill, you will still be maikng 80% less money.
And then no one will buy it.

That was the whole point of the change, wasn't it? :-?

[Cranberry]

I have been involved in the Phantasy Star series since Gamecube PSO. For 9 years I've been a part of the Phantasy Star online community and have been a part of numerous online games in the series. Not once in all of this time did I ever think that Monomates would be central to a contraversy about an online Phantasy Star game.

That the price of monomates is currently one of the most contraversial aspects of an online Phantasy Star game both surprises and greatly amuses me. Who would have EVER predicted that Monomates would ever be the target of a balance concern?

[-ZaNtH-]

I have been involved in the Phantasy Star series since Gamecube PSO. For 9 years I've been a part of the Phantasy Star online community and have been a part of numerous online games in the series. Not once in all of this time did I ever think that Monomates would be central to a contraversy about an online Phantasy Star game.

That the price of monomates is currently one of the most contraversial aspects of an online Phantasy Star game both surprises and greatly amuses me. Who would have EVER predicted that Monomates would ever be the target of a balance concern?


Yeah, lol, that's kinda scary.

[Tenlade]

here's to hoping they don't do the same mistake every other mmo does and forget to lower the sell price so its less then the new buy price. That always leads to hilarity when it happens (and by that I mean destroyed economies and rollbacks.)

[Drifting Fable]

Punishing players economically for buying or using too many mates is an artificial difficulty increase and isn't at all what people like myself are asking for. Monsters will still circle, wander, and stand around waiting for your MPA to one shot them and move along. All the current prices do is devalue the usage of healing items and punish those who dare to think of using them. Pipes and Resta would become the new healing items if this trend were to continue.

Just think about it. You can carry far more pipes and also just one of them would act like reviving stations. This ends up being a lot more cost effective than using a moon and the no S rank penalty means virtually nothing to an MPA farming run which is what people pretty much do in this game. Resta will only cost you a 1/3 of your regenerating pa bar for Star Atomizer like properties. The enemy AI gives you plenty of time to launch a charged resta and get back into the fight while healing your party members at the same time. So where is this sudden need to tone your skills?

Worst of all, this means effectively nothing for those who already have these timing skills. Game will still be easy and we will still be complaining about how easy and dull said game is. If the game is to be made harder, the difficulty needs to come from the fighting AI itself, not by punishing our wallets. I for one am pleased to see that Sakai seems to understand this to an extent in his recent comments.

[eharima]

And then no one will buy it.

That was the whole point of the change, wasn't it? :-?

yes.
but the op is mentioning, improve your skill and use less mates, be more efficent and get more money.

hence my post.

[Artificial Sky]

ill put a pd in tha auction house for 5mill, let me know when you buy it with that method,
as regardless of your improved skill, you will still be maikng 80% less money.

Thanks for this. That's the other aspect of decreasing the cost of necessities. The player gets meseta quicker. Nothing wrong with that, that I can see.


Punishing players economically for buying or using too many mates is an artificial difficulty increase and isn't at all what people like myself are asking for. Monsters will still circle, wander, and stand around waiting for your MPA to one shot them and move along. All the current prices do is devalue the usage of healing items and punish those who dare to think of using them. Pipes and Resta would become the new healing items if this trend were to continue.

Just think about it. You can carry far more pipes and also just one of them would act like reviving stations. This ends up being a lot more cost effective than using a moon and the no S rank penalty means virtually nothing to an MPA farming run which is what people pretty much do in this game. Resta will only cost you a 1/3 of your regenerating pa bar for Star Atomizer like properties. The enemy AI gives you plenty of time to launch a charged resta and get back into the fight while healing your party members at the same time. So where is this sudden need to tone your skills?

Worst of all, this means effectively nothing for those who already have these timing skills. Game will still be easy and we will still be complaining about how easy and dull said game is. If the game is to be made harder, the difficulty needs to come from the fighting AI itself, not by punishing our wallets. I for one am pleased to see that Sakai seems to understand this to an extent in his recent comments.

These are great points. Thanks for developing the discussion.

You've addressed MPAs and skilled players. What about Time Attacks, soloers and new players?

It's true that the refined players are unaffected, but that goes without saying. It's the nature of being a skilled player. He or she can rise above pretty much anything in a well-designed game. What about the players who didn't take the time to develop those skills?

[Temprus]

improve your skill and use less mates huh?

Sounds like Monster Hunter elitist guidance. "Hit and don't get hit" ^^;

Ah well, such is life.

[gigawuts]

Everyone is misspelling "just play force."

Very badly.

Most of those letters aren't even pronounced in "just play force."

[Z-0]

I play HU/FI and never have a problem with getting money for mates. Even now.

I even have Fury Stance up all the time. Whee.

[Drifting Fable]

These are great points. Thanks for developing the discussion.

You've addressed MPAs and skilled players. What about Time Attacks, soloers and new players?

It's true that the refined players are unaffected, but that goes without saying. It's the nature of being a skilled player. He or she can rise above pretty much anything in a well-designed game. What about the players who didn't take the time to develop those skills?

Considering you can subclass at the earliest lv 20 and those players will have nothing but normal mode to run, you have to pretty much try to die when you're fighting anything but bosses. 20 levels can be gotten in about 1-3 days. Players who really want those skills will develop them, but with how easy it is to get these 20 levels as long as you're running the COs, they'll be relying on resta before they know it and pondering on why mates existed in the first place.

Dedicated time attackers will most likely have the skill set and be somewhere near the cap. Sure you can meet the level requirements at 15 for normal but getting the S rank for the COs generally takes much higher levels than that. Same tactics can be applied and your chance of death there is pretty low.

Soloers can still pretty much use the very same tactics as I've already listed. They will generally already have the skills they need to survive if they decided to solo instead of party with the hoard.

If resta wasn't so powerful and there was a death penalty, maybe being more conservative on mates would actually work for being more profitable. But who'd want those changes to come to pass? Taking away things for the sake of balance just inspires people to look for other loop holes.

There's my two cents. ^^;

[Zeota]

Never really had a problem with this myself between money rewards from CO's and finding it on the field, even post-nerf. I'm still glad they're doing this though.