On Elemental Affinities - A speculative lore thread

[Zyrusticae]

So this is something that I don't expect Sega to ever really expand on, besides touching on it in some NPC dialogue every now and then, so I think it'll be fun to fill in the blanks myself.

I speak, of course, of elemental affinities. More specifically, elemental techniques, and even more specifically, the characters who specialize, through skill trees, specifically in one or two elements at a time.

Let's start, for illumination, with the concept of photons. Photons in our universe are... well, I'll just quote Wikipedia for this:

A photon is an elementary particle, the quantum of light and all other forms of electromagnetic radiation, and the force carrier for the electromagnetic force, even when static via virtual photons. The effects of this force are easily observable at both the microscopic and macroscopic level, because the photon has no rest mass; this allows for interactions at long distances.

In the universe of Phantasy Star Online, photons are harnessed as a sort of power source. A common analogy I use is this: they're like the Force in Star Wars, or ki in Dragon Ball (or lots of different over-the-top martial arts movies) - a kind of energy that is pervasive and envelops all things. It is through photons that our characters are able to pull off the insane feats of strength and derring-do that go well beyond anything even the most well-trained baseline human can ever hope to accomplish.

More importantly for this topic, it's this that allows the use of techniques, PSO's analogue for magic. I posit that characters who specialize in certain elements exhibit certain qualities as a result of that specialization, because the very nature of photons means that trying to bend them to create a certain effect will have to have some sort of psychological feedback. To put it another way, in bending the photons to cast a spell, your character is also manipulating the photons of their own body in some way (hence the drainage of pp).

For most casters, this is immaterial; as generalists, they only put the barest minimum of personal investment in casting their techniques. It's when they start focusing on one or two elements (as in putting all their skill points into one side of the skill tree) that they start to change.

Edit: For clarity, these are more like trends and less like hard and fast rules. The reason I picked these particular traits is because they're what I imagine bending photons to that element would feed back into the user. These don't necessarily define their personality, but these parts would certainly be magnified. Their other personality traits would simply be downplayed at the expense of the ones that are emphasized.

Let's break it down, shall we?

Fire - Fire elementalists are people who operate on a hair-trigger. They're hot-tempered individuals with an exceptionally short fuse. If you're trying to interact with one of these people, it's very likely that you're having to walk on eggshells. The very nature of fire also means that these individuals are likely sadists on some level - after all, it takes a certain kind of mindset to set things on fire and watch them burn alive. Likely to also be arrogant and full of themselves, like Clarice Crais (https://xptjdq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1m-v_K_hR4IbyIJYle3VZYlQXMdzMJJIUYBh9G2uEauJG4Tw3cjnr CMoohJYGGZiJLC21hs3OMbqFaO-jEwIVGZQqSNLhRoLwgeQvQJc3IEC6koe1i9I4LAQ/29921366.png?psid=1).

Ice - Ice elementalists, naturally being the polar opposite of fire, are also the polar opposite in temper. Highly patient individuals who are likely also emotionally distant. Breaking down their emotional walls can be a challenge in and of itself. Very likely to be deadpan snarkers. Slow-burning. Not much to say.

Wind - Wind elementalists are defined by a sort of clarity of thought. Wind is one of the most pure and most simple primal forces in nature - it's just the movement of air, as opposed to fire or ice, which require extreme temperatures to occur. As such, they're very much 'now', 'in-the-moment' types of people, leaving behind the baggage of the past or worries for the future, as they focus exclusively on what's in front of them. They are capable of multiple extremes, exhibiting both a soft and gentle side and a destructive, combative side. Likely good people to turn to for advice.

Lightning - Lightning elementalists are defined by one word: energy. They're chock-full of it. It is likely to be very tiring to simply be around one of these people as they simply cannot sit still for even a moment. They talk fast, act fast, and generally don't look ahead as much as they ought to. Highly excitable. Great people to have around if you run out of batteries. ;)

Light - Light elementalists, predictably enough, are very kind, gentle people with loads of empathy. Many of them are simply not capable of negative emotions other than sadness. Anger, hatred, and even fear don't come naturally to them. Very pleasant people to be around... especially when you need a heal! Marlu (https://xptjdq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1m8KCLWf_U_JvA4y3sDVQfqw0dtq6NuF3hBNdJARbVN4GvFfW 0yAeHARFbvSfTaLUGGYHNhN4nJ5a74ioVpA63ob55Dk023CrQY uPQc2lIxLUoCfAyQE2eHw/28975906.jpg?psid=1) is, naturally, a very good example of this.

Dark - Dark elementalists are, in a word, nasty. They are crazy, horrible, cruel, essentially evil people. They have to be. A megid is essentially the negative of light - a ball of pure hatred. The caster must pour their hatred into every cast to maximize their damage. They're even worse sadists than fire elementalists, as each megid damages their enemies with raw agony, their brains essentially shutting down their own bodies just to escape the pain, eventually resulting in death by excessive pain. They possess very little empathy, and are largely incapable of positive emotions. You can think of them as the equivalent of 'Sith' from Star Wars.

---

What do you think? Am I completely off-base? Did I miss or misinterpret anything? Lemme know what you think! :-)

[BIG OLAF]

You must have been bored and/or really high recently. I don't think Photons "mean" anything. They're just future-y sounding things that SEGA decided to use to explain technics, etc.

[CelestialBlade]

I'm liking your theories; fun read.

[Zyrusticae]

You must have been bored and/or really high recently. I don't think Photons "mean" anything. They're just future-y sounding things that SEGA decided to use to explain technics, etc.
Well, I disagree. The entire series is predicated on the battle between light (which all of our weapons are powered by, and also the only thing that can completely destroy Darkers) and darkness (hence the "Dark Force" being the big bad of every entry in the series).

Speaking of, I guess this makes all dark tech specialists either anti-heroes or anti-villains. :-)

I should mention that I was inspired to make this thread once I created a dark-specializing skill tree for Aiza and made a bunch of auto words for her that are essentially "I hate you, and I'm gonna make you suffer!"


I'm liking your theories; fun read.

AH, creativity at work. love it.
Glad you liked it!

[Bael]

AH, creativity at work. love it.

[Xaeris]

In general, I've never liked "elements as personalities" in fiction. Actually, I've never liked elements period, but that's a whole other story. My main problem with it is the boiling down of an entire personality to a few stock emotions. Humans couldn't possibly function if they were perpetually stuck in one portion of the emotional spectrum all the time. Even chronically depressed people can feel fleeting instances of joy and even the most hotheaded and reckless fool experiences moments of pensive doubt.

Another problem with it I have is the common element/emotion associations themselves. They're highly subject to and dependent on interpretation. For example, let's take your light interpretation: gentle and empathetic. Okay, that's one fair representation of light. But what about the kind of bright lights that are flashy and obnoxious as hell? Light could just as easily be the element of an attention whoring prima donna who wants all eyes on her all the time.

I like the idea of repeated and concentrated photon use changing a person, but not so much their personality.

[Omega-z]

Zyrusticae - could there be multiple of those emotion's. Say Like Raja in PSIV , He was electric for his fun loving go-hard prescriptive & self-dulgence , with the guidance of wind to go with the flow of battle. Light for an on going look toward's thing's in life like a child. And maybe a little ice at time's for being to himself. Thought's?

[Zyrusticae]

In general, I've never liked "elements as personalities" in fiction. My main problem with it is the boiling down of an entire personality to a few stock emotions. Humans couldn't possibly function if they were perpetually stuck in one portion of the emotional spectrum all the time. Even chronically depressed people can feel fleeting instances of joy and even the most hotheaded and reckless fool experiences moments of pensive doubt.
Well, yes. I should add that these (like anything else dealing with people, frankly) shouldn't be taken as hard and fast rules, but rather as trends. Keep in mind that people who decide to specialize in certain elements are also drawn to those elements in the first place because they see something that appeals to them in that element, so it makes a kind of sense that they exhibit certain qualities more often than not.


Another problem with it I have is the common element/emotion associations themselves. They're highly subject to and dependent on interpretation. For example, let's take your light interpretation: gentle and empathetic. Okay, that's one fair representation of light. But what about the kind of bright lights that are flashy and obnoxious as hell? Light could just as easily be the element of an attention whoring prima donna who wants all eyes on her all the time.
Naturally. That's why I ask for things that I miss. ;-)

However, with regards to light, I would argue that the way the element is presented in game represents a very 'pure' version of light, one that is always complete whiteness, with no variation of color. It's not very flashy, but always very effective. Takes a certain kind of mindset to really appreciate that (and I'm not one of those people, heh). Also, half of the element is dedicated to healing magic.


I like the idea of repeated and concentrated photon use changing a person, but not so much their personality.Hmmm. Physical, outward appearance changes, then? I could work with that... 8-)


Zyrusticae - could there be multiple of those emotion's. Say Like Raja in PSIV , He was electric for his fun loving go-hard prescriptive & self-dulgence , with the guidance of wind to go with the flow of battle. Light for an on going look toward's thing's in life like a child. And maybe a little ice at time's for being to himself. Thought's?Well, I should say that my ideas here are specifically for specialists, people who focus exclusively on one or two elements at a time. Most people are probably going to use a little bit of everything, like the character you're describing.

[Link1275]

So this is something that I don't expect Sega to ever really expand on, besides touching on it in some NPC dialogue every now and then, so I think it'll be fun to fill in the blanks myself.

I speak, of course, of elemental affinities. More specifically, elemental techniques, and even more specifically, the characters who specialize, through skill trees, specifically in one or two elements at a time.

Let's start, for illumination, with the concept of photons. Photons in our universe are... well, I'll just quote Wikipedia for this:


In the universe of Phantasy Star Online, photons are harnessed as a sort of power source. A common analogy I use is this: they're like the Force in Star Wars, or ki in Dragon Ball (or lots of different over-the-top martial arts movies) - a kind of energy that is pervasive and envelops all things. It is through photons that our characters are able to pull off the insane feats of strength and derring-do that go well beyond anything even the most well-trained baseline human can ever hope to accomplish.

More importantly for this topic, it's this that allows the use of techniques, PSO's analogue for magic. I posit that characters who specialize in certain elements exhibit certain qualities as a result of that specialization, because the very nature of photons means that trying to bend them to create a certain effect will have to have some sort of psychological feedback. To put it another way, in bending the photons to cast a spell, your character is also manipulating the photons of their own body in some way (hence the drainage of pp).

For most casters, this is immaterial; as generalists, they only put the barest minimum of personal investment in casting their techniques. It's when they start focusing on one or two elements (as in putting all their skill points into one side of the skill tree) that they start to change.

Let's break it down, shall we?

Fire - Fire elementalists are people who operate on a hair-trigger. They're hot-tempered individuals with an exceptionally short fuse. If you're trying to interact with one of these people, it's very likely that you're having to walk on eggshells. The very nature of fire also means that these individuals are likely sadists on some level - after all, it takes a certain kind of mindset to set things on fire and watch them burn alive. Likely to also be arrogant and full of themselves, like Clarice Crais (https://xptjdq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1m-v_K_hR4IbyIJYle3VZYlQXMdzMJJIUYBh9G2uEauJG4Tw3cjnr CMoohJYGGZiJLC21hs3OMbqFaO-jEwIVGZQqSNLhRoLwgeQvQJc3IEC6koe1i9I4LAQ/29921366.png?psid=1).

Ice - Ice elementalists, naturally being the polar opposite of fire, are also the polar opposite in temper. Highly patient individuals who are likely also emotionally distant. Breaking down their emotional walls can be a challenge in and of itself. Very likely to be deadpan snarkers. Slow-burning. Not much to say.

Wind - Wind elementalists are defined by a sort of clarity of thought. Wind is one of the most pure and most simple primal forces in nature - it's just the movement of air, as opposed to fire or ice, which require extreme temperatures to occur. As such, their temper is likely unchanged from before they began specializing. Instead, they're very much 'now', 'in-the-moment' types of people, leaving behind the baggage of the past or worries for the future, as they focus exclusively on what's in front of them. Likely good people to turn to for advice.

Lightning - Lightning elementalists are defined by one word: energy. They're chock-full of it. It is likely to be very tiring to simply be around one of these people as they simply cannot sit still for even a moment. They talk fast, act fast, and generally don't look ahead as much as they ought to. Highly excitable. Great people to have around if you run out of batteries. ;)

Light - Light elementalists, predictably enough, are very kind, gentle people with loads of empathy. Many of them are simply not capable of negative emotions other than sadness. Anger, hatred, and even fear don't come naturally to them. Very pleasant people to be around... especially when you need a heal! Marlu (https://xptjdq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1m8KCLWf_U_JvA4y3sDVQfqw0dtq6NuF3hBNdJARbVN4GvFfW 0yAeHARFbvSfTaLUGGYHNhN4nJ5a74ioVpA63ob55Dk023CrQY uPQc2lIxLUoCfAyQE2eHw/28975906.jpg?psid=1) is, naturally, a very good example of this.

Dark - Dark elementalists are, in a word, nasty. They are crazy, horrible, cruel, essentially evil people. They have to be. A megid is essentially the negative of light - a ball of pure hatred. The caster must pour their hatred into every cast to maximize their damage. They're even worse sadists than fire elementalists, as each megid damages their enemies with raw agony, their brains essentially shutting down their own bodies just to escape the pain, eventually resulting in death by excessive pain. They possess very little empathy, and are largely incapable of positive emotions. You can think of them as the equivalent of 'Sith' from Star Wars.

---

What do you think? Am I completely off-base? Did I miss or misinterpret anything? Lemme know what you think! :-)

I have to kind of disagree with you. I would have to say that the wikipedia description you quoted works for them too, only they can control them due to technology.

[Crimera]

I disagree, with your wind Element :3
IMO, wind has an effect on everything. I wouldn't say it is "pure" and that their temper is "unchanged" either.

Wind can be VERY dangerous.

What is always present during these scenarios/phenomenon?

1) Hurricane
2) Dust Devil
3) Tornado
4) Volcano ash
5) Firestorm
6) Sandstorm

Destruction.

I would say the Wind is the most dynamic element. Because for everything that it destroys, it also creates or "refreshes". Such as plant life with how it spreads seeds.

After all, there is a such thing as a light gust called a "breeze". : )



...or a fart. :C

[Gama]

i actually enoyed reading this x) fun read.

ill guess im a mix of fire temper and light temper.

kind but ill blow you into ashes if youre rude "ill heal you later tho"

[Zyrusticae]

I have to kind of disagree with you. I would have to say that the wikipedia description you quoted works for them too, only they can control them due to technology.
I thought of this, too, but the fact remains that I can cast my techniques bare-handed, which contradicts the notion that they rely on their technology to control photons.

[spoiler-box]I disagree, with your wind Element :3
IMO, wind has an effect on everything. I wouldn't say it is "pure" and that their temper is "unchanged" either.

Wind can be VERY dangerous.

What is always present during these scenarios/phenomenon?

1) Hurricane
2) Dust Devil
3) Tornado
4) Volcano ash
5) Firestorm
6) Sandstorm

Destruction.

I would say the Wind is the most dynamic element. Because for everything that it destroys, it also creates or "refreshes". Such as plant life with how it spreads seeds.

After all, there is a such thing as a light gust called a "breeze". : )



...or a fart. :C[/spoiler-box]This is a good point, but I have a more difficult time translating this into actual personality traits.

Perhaps you could say wind elementalists are people of extremes. A soft, gentle breeze can be very refreshing, in contrast to a tornado that just tears everything to pieces.

i actually enoyed reading this x) fun read.

ill guess im a mix of fire temper and light temper.

kind but ill blow you into ashes if youre rude "ill heal you later tho"
That's actually something I forgot to get into - mixing two elements, especially two contrasting elements (fire and ice, or light and dark). I'll get into that more later.

Glad you liked it. :-)

[Link1275]

I thought of this, too, but the fact remains that I can cast my techniques bare-handed, which contradicts the notion that they rely on their technology to control photons.


Actually if you have the technology to travel through space for years on end, then it would only be logical to assume that you have the technology to manipulate DNA strains. By manipulating DNA, or implementing something into a person's body, you could easily make them able to control things that are outside of their own physical bounds.

[Zyrusticae]

That's an interesting take on it, but, well, there's this:

AP 238/2/21
Uruk: Hey, that outfit... You're ARKS.
Uruk: Sorry, my name is Uruk.
Uruk: I've always wanted to be an ARKS, so I just...
Uruk: But 'wanted' as in past tense. I didn't make it. They said I didn't have any talent for controlling photons.
Uruk: ARKS has some severe parts, so there's not much I can do about that.
Uruk: But don't really be concerned with me.
If it were something you could do through simple DNA manipulation, having 'talent' wouldn't be necessary, since it'd be something you can just breed into the population at large. As it is, I'm inclined to think it's more along the lines of someone who's 'Force-sensitive' in Star Wars, someone who just happened to have the right circumstances in both genetics and in birth to nurture the right kind of affinity for controlling photons.

That, and come on, just controlling things with tech is sooo boring, isn't it? :p

Edit: And this one, too:

AP 238/2/26
Xeno: Hey, have you gotten used to fighting?
Xeno: What's your class? Oh that's right, you can pretty much manage anything.
Xeno: Being able to change your photon manipulation specialization is pretty enviable.
Xeno: From your perspective, what do I look like?
Xeno: Do I look like a hunter? Because actually my photon specialization is mostly suited towards ranger.
Xeno: Right now I'm trying my best, but being a class you're not suited towards is hard.
Xeno: It would be nice to be someone like you.
Xeno: No point in dwelling on things I have no control over. I just have to do what I can.
Xeno: Go back to being a ranger? I've been thinking about that.
Xeno: But there's something I need to protect. And I think hunter does that best.
Xeno: Sorry it seems that when ever I talk to you I end up complaining about something.
Xeno: But what's this nostalgic feeling I get around you?

Edit #2:

Speaking of "photon manipulation specialization", I'd like to touch on that for a moment.

Every class has a different method of manipulating photons. It goes kind of like this:

Fighters and hunters mostly manipulate the photons of their bodies, using it to increase their attack power or grant them crazy amounts of agility. Between the two, hunter focuses more on attack power while fighter focuses more on speed.

Rangers manipulate the photons of their bullets, hence their ability to take the same ammunition in their rifles and launchers and use them to create several wildly different effects.

Gunners are actually somewhere in-between rangers and fighters, using some of their power to do crazy things with their bodies.

Forces focus exclusively on warping photons to create different elemental effects. Their rods and talises act as 'focus instruments' to allow them to manipulate these photons with greater accuracy and clarity, hence increasing their attack power.

Techers are a bit different, using their wands to create bursts of elemental damage on hit with their melee attacks. You could say that they're focusing on manipulating the photons within their wands for this.

So as you can see, each class is a method of specializing in how you manipulate photons, resulting in some fairly unique fighting styles. In the same way, specializing in an element is a way of specializing even further in how you manipulate photons.

[Dycize]

To add on the subject, the way classes use photons allows to make sense of the way the race interact with photons.

For starters, humans are the middle of the line, good at both "personnal" and "environmental" use, though not better than any other.
Newmen excel at the environmental use of photons, hence their ability with technics, they can easily manipulate their surroundings. On the other hand, they have more trouble using it to strengthen themselves or their weapons.
Casts are probably partly fueled by photons, which explains their amazing durability and strength (also, they are robots), but they have a harder time exteriorising photons, thus why they are terrible at technics.

This talk about elemental affinities remind me of the colors in Magic : The gathering, where they also tend to have a problem with categorisation (particularly, you guessed it, black and white).

[gigawuts]

In PSO1 I had a sense that technology was augmenting the innate abilities of the squishy meatbags to the point that they could manipulate things via thought, but in PSU it definitely felt more like it was purely in the weapon, most notably because of the TP -> per-weapon PP conversion. Here it's halfway between.

I've seen a few people say casts have supposedly advanced, which I think fits. It's been a while since pso1, and psu hasn't happened (either it won't or it hasn't yet, depends on your interpretations).

Putting one and one together, plus advancements, and I'm inclined to say that it's not purely in the caster but also not purely in the technological augmentations. A force couldn't cast anything without either the proper augmentations, nor the proper disk. But, up until some recent advancements, nothing artificial could cast anything at all.

I'm curious how they'll handle casts and techs. I'm a bit disappointed we haven't been introduced to a tech using cast NPC yet, and hope we will in the coming story updates.

[Xenobia]

Well the thing is, to every single major attribute in nature, there is a counterpart. Known as Ying and Yang, male/female, good/bad, light/dark, dead/life, fire/ice, matter/antimatter. Obviously, a combination is not possible, however, accepting it means "love", not accepting it means "hate". Its something which is bound to each others, but still the highest inequality.

In PSO2 the motivation is "hate" thus creating the highest impact at the opposite counterpart. So we produce another Ying/Yang by the creation of monsters, because without them there is no purpose for players to exist at all, so its our natural counterpart.

Taken over to its effects when attributes are meeting each others.
Light and Dark, Fire and Ice: Will destroy each others in time of hate. Those stuff cant exist together without accepting theyr individual superiority.

However, many elements can act as a symbiosis:
Wind and Fire will create a combination for powerful results. Same is possible for Water and Lightning, Ice and Water and more... although it doesnt seem to exist in PSO2.

Photon is not truly able to be taken over to those rules because photons got a totaly different behave. A photon is the smallest possible neutral matter (it will be its own antimatter, kinda a symbiosis acting as a carrier of electromagnetism), so there is no antimatter. A photon does not have mass, thus it cant realisticaly act as a carrier of some kind of non neutral elementar matter, according to my logics.

So i dont think we can simply create a realistic lore when taking them into account. Although i will study how that stuff could realistically interact.

Interesting to read all those pretty mindful storys though.