Why are rare weapons so weak?

[Flame]

This is a genuine curiosity of mine. Why is my 7 star Ray Dupex +10 much weaker than my 3 star vita slash +10? What is the thought behind making an item that is so hard to find, weaker than a common drop?

[CelestialBlade]

Don't judge that based on 7* stuff, there's a lot of 7* weaponry designed to be equipped by lower-leveled players. Any other rare is going to outperform a 3* and some (especially 9-10*s) are going to equal or outperform 4-6*s.

[dablacksephiroth]

The great SEGAC mystery..

[jooozek]

They aren't weak, see Gramas for example and basically all the VH rares. When you compare the VH rares to the 6* weapons there isn't really too much to compare, 6* are pretty much mag fodder now. Take the best 6* sword for example, it has 492 S-ATK at +10, now take the new 7* reskin axe from vol, at +10 it gets to 684 S-ATK.

[Flame]

Don't judge that based on 7* stuff, there's a lot of 7* weaponry designed to be equipped by lower-leveled players. Any other rare is going to outperform a 3* and some (especially 9-10*s) are going to equal or outperform 4-6*s.

Yes but 3 star weaponry is also meant to be used by lower leveled players. The 7 stars are essentially useless (not to mention expensive to grind). Shouldn't the star value directly represent an item's usefulness? That's essentially how it was in PSO and it made perfect sense. Nowadays rares don't even have inherent abilities.


They aren't weak, see Gramas for example and basically all the VH rares. When you compare the VH rares to the 6* weapons there isn't really too much to compare, 6* are pretty much mag fodder now. Take the best 6* sword for example, it has 492 S-ATK at +10, now take the new 7* reskin axe from vol, at +10 it gets to 684 S-ATK.

The blizaxe? Yeah it's ridiculously strong. Stronger than Most 8 stars. Which also DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE. Shouldn't the blizaxe be a 9/10 star with those kinds of numbers?

[gigawuts]

It seems that every level bracket has a series of items meant to be found and possibly used, in common, uncommon, and then all rare categories.

It's not very intuitive, to say the least.

[Shirokami]

Rare weapons have a higher damage modifier even if the shown damage is lower.

[Shou]

Arbitrary stars on an item are arbitrary.

[gigawuts]

Arbitrary stars on an item are arbitrary.

They're not arbitrary. They denote how expensive it will be to grind them.

Actually, I think that's all stars mean anymore. 9* = this weapon will be expensive to grind, 7* = this weapon will be slightly less so, etc.

[Gama]

they are rare being rare dosent make them efficient or powerfull.

[Miraclearrow]

Also, more rare items does not make them more expensive to grind per say.... My clock cost ONLY 250 mst per level.... I got it to level 10 last night and only spent like 1-2k...

[Zorafim]

Yes but 3 star weaponry is also meant to be used by lower leveled players.

Nah, it doesn't. 3*s are harder to equip than 5*s, and most 7*s.

Here's the way it works. 1-3*s are common weapons. These keep you at a basic equipment level floor, so you never get too weak in an area. Then there are 4-6*s, which are generally much stronger than a 1-3* of the same area, but much harder to find. Then there are 7-10*s, which I DON'T FUCKING KNOW WHAT THEY DO!!!
Much easier than looking at 7*+ rarity, is to look at their equip requirements. Generally, they outperform equipment that you can get with similar requirements. High equip requirements means the weapon will end up really strong.
That being said, I've only found two weapons that are better than my 5*s. The rest, I NPC.

[gigawuts]

Also, more rare items does not make them more expensive to grind per say.... My clock cost ONLY 250 mst per level.... I got it to level 10 last night and only spent like 1-2k...

Grinding cost is tied to the affixes and rarity AFAIK. Affixing cost is tied to grind and rarity as well.

Also, 250 meseta per grind? And 1-2k, are you by any chance including the cost of grinders?

[gravityvx]

To put it simply as an example:

Tier 1 Normal Scaling at +10 50%

Tier 1 Rare Scaling at +10 100% (Will always, always beat out the normal weapon)


Now, say you put were to have a higher tier normal weapon vs a lower tier rare, example:

Vita Calibur 6* - damage at +10 = 492

Ardillo 9* - damage at +10 = 542

Now here you are looking at a normal weapon that is higher tier than that of the rare, but because it's rare it's scaling at +10 is still beating it out.

As for the % I posted this is strictly an example, I'm not exactly sure how large the gap is but it's pretty damn huge when comparing weapons of the same tier.

[freyt]

Yeah it also denotes that the stat gain from grinding is also higher.

That also seems to be a percentage based on the previous grind stat. Well, there's some crazy rules or whatever.

Point is, some of the weaker high grade weapons are stronger by the time they get to +10.

[Vintasticvin]

Why are rare weapons so weak you ask Op? Its cause you touch yourself at nights thats why.

[Miraclearrow]

Grinding cost is tied to the affixes and rarity AFAIK. Affixing cost is tied to grind and rarity as well.

Also, 250 meseta per grind? And 1-2k, are you by any chance including the cost of grinders?



^
I failed a bunch of times as expected. Gotta love Dudu LOL.

[gigawuts]

1-2k is 1-2 thousand, so that's 4-8 tries before including grinders, which cost more than 2k each.

[Miraclearrow]

That got me a few levels. I didn't explain myself, it was already partially grinded. I feel as though we're missing the point here :S It only cost me a few K to get my rare rod to +10 after this most recent patch =P

And yes, 1-2 thousand not 100k or 200k

[gigawuts]

That was, what, a twilight rune? Hate to break it to you, but those are 8* and consume 2 grinders per grind attempt. Those are worth about 6k right now.

So yeah, add 12k for each attempt. Not even success, attempt.

[Miraclearrow]

If we're comparing, the lower star items are still going to require 1 grinder.


250 mst it was costing me to grind as far as base price so 12250 then per grind extra :P. You're right i was not factoring that in. I feel as though I've seen lower ranking weapons that were more than that to grind but that might have been pre patch?

Either way, grinders are not that hard to find so i guess that aspect is more on the basis of perspective. I feel as though its not THAT hard to get a rare weapon to level 10, which was the point i was trying to make. Valid point though.

[Ezodagrom]

Nah, it doesn't. 3*s are harder to equip than 5*s, and most 7*s.

Here's the way it works. 1-3*s are common weapons. These keep you at a basic equipment level floor, so you never get too weak in an area. Then there are 4-6*s, which are generally much stronger than a 1-3* of the same area, but much harder to find. Then there are 7-10*s, which I DON'T FUCKING KNOW WHAT THEY DO!!!
Much easier than looking at 7*+ rarity, is to look at their equip requirements. Generally, they outperform equipment that you can get with similar requirements. High equip requirements means the weapon will end up really strong.
That being said, I've only found two weapons that are better than my 5*s. The rest, I NPC.
I must also note that weapons with higher rarity have higher modifiers for grinding.

The modifiers for +10 grind weapons:
1~3* weapons - 150%
4~6* weapons - 160%
7~9* weapons - 175%
10* weapons - 190%

[gigawuts]

If we're comparing, the lower star items are still going to require 1 grinder.


250 mst it was costing me to grind as far as base price so 12250 then per grind extra :P. You're right i was not factoring that in. I feel as though I've seen lower ranking weapons that were more than that to grind but that might have been pre patch?

Either way, grinders are not that hard to find so i guess that aspect is more on the basis of perspective. I feel as though its not THAT hard to get a rare weapon to level 10, which was the point i was trying to make. Valid point though.

You're talking to someone who spent in excess of 1.5m liquid meseta failing to grind 4-5 different weapons to +10, not including cost of grinders. Only since the patch have I finally managed to reach +10 on a rare weapon.

And I'm probably not even a bad case.

[Miraclearrow]

Well maybe you need some of my horse shoes LOL. I must be very lucky because I have not had a hard time at all. I feel as though since patch they made the success rate of grinding far better.

[gigawuts]

I think they have too really, I reached +10 on this WAY easier, but that could just be the way the RNG rolled.

[Acel]

You're talking to someone who spent in excess of 1.5m liquid meseta failing to grind 4-5 different weapons to +10, not including cost of grinders. Only since the patch have I finally managed to reach +10 on a rare weapon.

And I'm probably not even a bad case.

1.5 mil... LOL... how about that amount each time I try to do something to a new rare weapon?
Not even a bad case indeed. :P

What I do these days is basically just log in for 5-6 hrs of farming and then 30mins of doudou...
Every. Single. Day.

I think he is the sole reason why the Darkars want to destroy humanity...

[Miraclearrow]

If that's the case I'm confident its easier to grind now.

[gigawuts]

1.5 mil... LOL... how about that amount each time I try to do something to a new rare weapon?
Not even a bad case indeed. :P

What I do these days is basically just log in for 5-6 hrs of farming and then 30mins of doudou...
Every. Single. Day.

I think he is the sole reason why the Darkars want to destroy humanity...

That's where I just give up. I don't know, maybe it was more than that. I remember whining in greater detail in the RNG complaint thread, then dismissing it from my mind. It could've been 2.5m?

If you're doing 5 hours of hardcore MPAing and grinding every day then 2.5m still wouldn't be much. But, then, you've hit +10 haven't you?

Why even grind every new weapon to +10 though? That's hardly cost effective. Surely you have to know that you'll just replace it soon enough, and could use that money for something else.

[Acel]

Why even grind every new weapon to +10 though? That's hardly cost effective. Surely you have to know that you'll just replace it soon enough, and could use that money for something else.

Vanity.
Hey look, its my +10 "Monkey Rod" and special title that comes with it! :D

[Acel]

Staying on topic...

Ive still yet to get my hands on an Iku Touch (IKUTACHI) ... that thing is worse than an 8 star even for being that rare... gawd. Whoever came up with it was definitely drunk. Made from the branch of a special photon tree... right.... I smell Tenchi Muyo somewhere... (and the only reason I want it so bad althought its crap)

[Griffin]

Everything runs on vanity in this game, I thought? Is it really necessary to be over 9000?

[Miraclearrow]

I feel a meme coming.

[Griffin]

I feel a meme coming.

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