So... why is Force's damage so mediocre?

[Shirokami]

Title.
Really, I'm dealing 4k + with my Ranger since level 9 and my Hunter used to deal 2k+ easily with one PA
But... I barely got to 1k damage at level 20 with a charged just time Rafoie to Dagans weakspot...

[Shou]

In terms of damage in Multiparties:
Ranger>>>Force>Hunter

Just be glad you are not a hunter.

[dioje]

Okay, first of all I call bullshit on the 4k+ at level 9 with a RA. Unless you have Shoot IV/Ran'sa soul units and a pure R-ATK mag at 150 then you're not getting close to 4k without weakbullet and if you ARE getting 4k damage with weakbullet at level 9 that is nothing to be amazed by because my FO was getting 10k at level 15 with weakbullet applied. FO imo is the best class in the game at level 40-50, I get retarded damage and I'm not even min-maxing, I have shit units at that.

Comparing FO to RA is also pretty asinine since they play totally different. With RA, you're getting loads of damage in the span of a second due to multiple hits with your weapon, with FO you focus on charging and releasing a huge load of damage at once which can be easily beaten by a GU who's guns hits 30 times in 5 seconds and gets 700 dmg per shot. I don't really know what you're expecting from FO but the damage the class outputs is far from mediocre if you're doing it right. My team mate has 50/48 FO/TE and does 14k on Vol casually so I refuse to agree with you and I'm a HU main myself.


In terms of damage against bosses:
Ranger>>>Force>Hunter

Just be glad you are not a hunter.

FTFY

Really, Zondeel is retarded in MPs.

[Zyrusticae]

Yeah, no, I don't know how you're doing 4k+ damage with a level 9 ranger without weak bullet, and if it is with weak bullet it's definitely nothing amazing, at that.

I saw someone today just casually throwing out 3.5k+ damage Zondes in a mines multiparty. Everything was dying pretty much instantly. No other class can clear crowds like that. Rangers with launchers can try, but their raw DPS simply isn't as high as a strong Force/Techer, especially since their pp management isn't even close. A Force/Techer with charge PP revival and PP restorate can cast basically non-stop.

Rangers might be king on bosses, but that's about it. Forces are better everywhere else, and even then, if a ranger is in the party to apply weak bullet, Forces with ramegid will kill that boss faster than anyone else.

Hunters and fighters are, sadly, a bit in need of help.

[Chik'Tikka]

^ don't come crying if SEGAC nerfs FO and buffs RA/HU +^_^+

[dioje]

HU/FO all day erry day. A class that knows true suffering

[Shirokami]

No, really, at level 27 my Force's damage wasn't going over 700s max for a just time charged Zan. I can't see or understand how you guys are dealing such high damage.

[lagnarok]

I have about 1550 R-attack RA without buffs at lv 46 RA and I'm doing 4k with sneak shot with JA on enemy head shot. I guess OP somehow has 1550 R-attack at lv 9. With at least damage multiplier of 125% * 125% (Weak hit advance 1 and 2) and 10% + 10% (from Hu JA bonus).

[Lamoon26]

Lets not forget about play strategy as well,.. since this game works like a hack and slash choosing what mob to go for and when all comes into play. As a FO when enemies spawn I try to make sure I'm in the back so I can deal out the most amount of damage to far away mobs. Then, (being the white mage I am) I constantly check out my parties HP bars to see who needs resta. Using your buffs religiously helps drive up the damage as well.

[Zyrusticae]

No, really, at level 27 my Force's damage wasn't going over 700s max for a just time charged Zan. I can't see or understand how you guys are dealing such high damage.
That's Zan. It hits three times. 700x3 = 2100 damage, which is not mediocre by any stretch of the imagination.

I still don't know how your ranger is hitting for 4k at level 9, but your hunter's AoE isn't anywhere near that high AND the PP costs and recovery are both slower than a Force's...

[dioje]

That's Zan. It hits three times. 700x3 = 2100 damage, which is not mediocre by any stretch of the imagination.

I still don't know how your ranger is hitting for 4k at level 9, but your hunter's AoE isn't anywhere near that high AND the PP costs and recovery are both slower than a Force's...

I thought Zan hit 6 times? Either I was severely high or my Zans flew back around like a frisbee? Or is that when the initial release MISSES? lol so confused

[Zyrusticae]

I thought Zan hit 6 times? Either I was severely high or my Zans flew back around like a frisbee? Or is that when the initial release MISSES? lol so confused
That only happens in very open areas. If your zan runs into any terrain it'll just vanish.

If you ARE in a very open area, Zan can actually hit 9 times - once coming out, once when it comes back, and AGAIN when it comes back a second time. This is why it's one of the best techs for killing bosses (right next to Ramegid).

[BIG OLAF]

I play HU/FI, and I really don't see any problems with the damage I do. Not like anything in the game is spectacularly hard to kill anyway, no matter what class you are.

[dioje]

That only happens in very open areas. If your zan runs into any terrain it'll just vanish.

If you ARE in a very open area, Zan can actually hit 9 times - once coming out, once when it comes back, and AGAIN when it comes back a second time. This is why it's one of the best techs for killing bosses (right next to Ramegid).

Ah, I see now. No wonder during FC MPAs my screen is filled with Zans and RaMegids as soon as a burst starts lol.

But yeah, point is. FO is far from mediocre, the end.


Not like anything in the game is spectacularly hard to kill anyway, no matter what class you are.

True. But Set Sadinian mobs are hard to not DIE against when you're solo'ing as HU. :(
Those stupid damn bastards jumping from half the screen and cracking me with their miniature swords

[Shirokami]

That's Zan. It hits three times. 700x3 = 2100 damage, which is not mediocre by any stretch of the imagination.

I still don't know how your ranger is hitting for 4k at level 9, but your hunter's AoE isn't anywhere near that high AND the PP costs and recovery are both slower than a Force's...

No no, it was 700 with all the hits.

[TehblackUchiha]

Hunters and fighters are, sadly, a bit in need of help.

whoa dere, i'm actually confident in my raep abilities with fighter. My Lambda Failnaught +10 does about 1k each hit with deadly archer which i think is about 6 hits each so that is 6k each time i do deadly archer WITHOUT being subbed with hunter. If you charge it it does twice the amount of hits (i think. It at least goes alot faster) so 12k per charged deadly archer. The Double saber gear also helps with dps and twin daggers are just godly against bosses. Hunters and fighters may not be as good as forces and rangers but we are not that under powered.

Btw i wanted to try subbing techer with fighter, with fighter having chase advance and techer having pp restorate, shifta advance and poison ignition maxed. Anyone think thats a good idea because i use a poison weapon most of the time and my standalone fighter is fine, besides i wanna cast techs :-P.

[Shirokami]

Would anyone show me some of your FO builds? I must be doing something wrong...

[Sebastian & PSO]

It's a bit frustrating that you all have to be annoying and even do that much damage. I'm a Lv:30 hunter, fight with claws, don't even know what their called. I deal like 200dmg each hit, couldn't care less. At least I'm not wiping out enemies before anyone else gets a chance to even hit one.

And you'd have to be a pretty big freak to have a Hunter as your main and then say you have a FO at level 40-50 do you sleep..ever? Work? Friends? Live?

[MissMalice]

It's a bit frustrating that you all have to be annoying and even do that much damage. I'm a Lv:30 hunter, fight with claws, don't even know what their called. I deal like 200dmg each hit, couldn't care less. At least I'm not wiping out enemies before anyone else gets a chance to even hit one.

And you'd have to be a pretty big freak to have a Hunter as your main and then say you have a FO at level 40-50 do you sleep..ever? Work? Friends? Live?

Well, you can't exactly blame players for Forces being powerful. I've only played two Phantasy Star games, but Forces have always been like that. Most mage/spellcaster classes in other games are like that; glass cannons that deal quick, crowd-control, overpowering attacks, but they burn through photons/mana/whatever quickly. That's just how it is. :c

I really can't say I'm a very high level character. I've been playing since the main release and my HIGHEST level is only 34. Granted, I've leveled a second character and all the other classes to an average of 30. Its really not that hard to level multiple classes. And this is coming from a girl who works during the week, an equally gaming-addicted husband to take care of when he gets home from work, and has to keep the house clean for when friends come over for weekly game/movie night. From level 1-15 is like... a couple hours if you luck out with Emergency Missions. 20-25 is the hardest it gets, really. Just a couple hours a day and burst playing on the weekends/days off gets the job done! ^_^

To have multiple character both above 45+ is an extreme stretch since the cap only recently got raised, but EXP tickets are reasonably obtainable. You can get 3 +100% EXP tickets for 500 AC. People can get their teammates together, plan out an MPA, and boom! Power-leveling. Even if you don't buy AC, you can get EXP boosts. I randomly had two +50% ones sitting in my inventory. I dunno if I got them from FUN or what, but they got the job done. c:

Anywho... From my experience, Forces aren't under powered or lacking in damage. They are made to do powerful AOEs for crowd-control. Obviously for little mobs scattered around, other classes won't really have the time to attack unless they have other means of doing ranged attacks. I've played Hunter and Fighter, trust me, I know how frustrating it can be to have a Ranger or Force come along and pick off the mobs, leaving you pretty much useless. But every class has its purpose.

tl;dr - I'd rather deal with having an occasional boring mission with a Force in my party than SEGA nerfing them so their only good role in ANY party is a heal slave.

Also--just to put this out there--I'm only a level 29 Force. I'm not in ANY SENSE a super powerful Force. My damage varies a lot. The only time I really paid attention to my damage was earlier today during a Desert Emergency Mission when we came across a Gwanada. I was using Rafoie on its face, doing 650 damage and burn damage of 1500 each tick. And that's really only what I've noticed so far [I'm not sure if that's GOOD or not. Just reporting what I know]. I usually clear quickly enough that I don't bother to look and see how much damage I'm doing. o.o However, I can post screenshots of my build tomorrow morning if it'll help any.

[Tyruka]

Well's isn't magic classes suppose to have the highest attack over all? Sure they have the highest DPS but every class has some drawbacks like low hp low defense, etc, a Hunter is like a hybrid in between, balanced in ways, A Ranger/Gunner has lacking in defense i think, but has decent damage, this is what i think in my opinion. ^^ -hides behind a rock-

[Coatl]

FO is the burst damage class.
I feel FO also has better AOE than RA.


Well's isn't magic classes suppose to have the highest attack over all? Sure they have the highest DPS but every class has some drawbacks like low hp low defense, etc, a Hunter is like a hybrid in between, balanced in ways, A Ranger/Gunner has lacking in defense i think, but has decent damage, this is what i think in my opinion. ^^ -hides behind a rock-

To me, Ranger is more of a support class than FO is, just because it has weakbullet.

[rubykid15]

FI needs damage help? Have we seen buffed FI/HU?

Deadly Archer rapes everything in this game.

[dioje]

FI needs damage help? Have we seen buffed FI/HU?

Deadly Archer rapes everything in this game.

Deadly Archer is pretty good but I HATE FI weapons, so boring which is why I dropped it for FO. Other than twin daggers I could care less about it. I'm hoping Over End is retarded and does like 20k+ with the proper buffs and no weak bullet

[DoubleCannon]

Being a fighter I love it.. but dam I am so useless in mpa, half the time everything dies before I ever manage to get up to it!

Like code attacks! I need to hit something to activate the darn code. i have a hard time doing that when they die right before I hit them. monsters need MOAR HP IN MPA! ALOT MOAR! lol

[syberx]

OP doesn't realize the power of Zan

*sarcasm on* I'm still wondering when the random patch will happen, u know where there are forces only MP as they feel they are carrying every single player that isn't force in the entire server...*sarcasm off*

[TecherRamen]

Forces are good for hitting multiple targets at once More so than yhe other classes. Try using barta or multi hitting with foie to get enemies in a strait linethose numbers will add up quickly. Also why are your mags stats? You kinda need to specialize your mag in one attack stat. Even 30 Tatk which may not seem like a lot can actually make. Difference

[Shirokami]

Forces are good for hitting multiple targets at once More so than yhe other classes. Try using barta or multi hitting with foie to get enemies in a strait linethose numbers will add up quickly. Also why are your mags stats? You kinda need to specialize your mag in one attack stat. Even 30 Tatk which may not seem like a lot can actually make. Difference

Right now, you all made me want to remake my Force, so I'm starting it from 0
Anyways, I had all the force set units with Ragne soul + Technique 1 and the 320 T-TATK requirement rod +10 with technique II and mag was T-ATK/DEX, this time I'll make it full T-ATK I guess...

[Coatl]

Right now, you all made me want to remake my Force, so I'm starting it from 0
Anyways, I had all the force set units with Ragne soul + Technique 1 and the 320 T-TATK requirement rod +10 with technique II and mag was T-ATK/DEX, this time I'll make it full T-ATK I guess...

No t-def? Newearls need 44 T-def from mag or skill tree to wear the best gear at lv40.
Rare units are especially important to FOs, they love those PP boosts.

[Shirokami]

No t-def? Newearls need 44 T-def from mag or skill tree to wear the best gear at lv40.
Rare units are especially important to FOs, they love those PP boosts.

44 T-DEF from mag/skill tree with or without subclass?

[gigawuts]

Wait for the techer boosts before making permanent changes to your trees or mags. A T-Def boost might be in store.

[Shirokami]

Wait for the techer boosts before making permanent changes to your trees or mags. A T-Def boost might be in store.

Roger~
Thanks.

[Z-0]

No t-def? Newearls need 44 T-def from mag or skill tree to wear the best gear at lv40.
Rare units are especially important to FOs, they love those PP boosts.
The best gear requires DEX, not T-Def (the wing units). They give the best PP in the game. Second best are the gold wing units, and they are also matched by the R-Def units which anyone can wear without R-Def in their mag. The units which require a buttload of defense are only any good if you're looking for defense.

I personally do a T-ATK/DEX hybrid mag (120/30). Never needed T-DEF.

[gigawuts]

the 374 def units all give 3 PP each + 10 set bonus, gold wings give 4 each + 10 set bonus

[Z-0]

And black wings give 5 each + 10 set bonus (along with 50 HP and 40 DEX). I want them but I don't have the meseta to affix them at the moment. ;_;

[TecherRamen]

Like wise, my mag is 85 Tatk /65 Dex. If I could do it over again Id go something like 120/30 or even 100/50. Ive got stable damage tho!

[Hansha]

Is this topic talking about the MPA (and certain bosses weak to Samegid and Zan) gods being weak? Please complain to Sega so they buff my underpowered FO kthxbai.

[Jakosifer]

Yall Melee fighters need to double dash or knockledash more. Running like a normal person guarantees you ain't hittin shit in an MPA.

As for your damage, always Just Attack and Charge your techs. Tech Charge advance also god mode skills.

[Shirokami]

Is this topic talking about the MPA (and certain bosses weak to Samegid and Zan) gods being weak? Please complain to Sega so they buff my underpowered FO kthxbai.

Can anyone translate what he said? Thx

[Neith]

Ranger is pretty poor damage, you only ever do reasonable damage when you have Weak Bullet applied. Force is far from mediocre; Zan might look like it doesn't do much but it can hit potentially upto 6 times each cast.

Certainly not mediocre, you just need to have a well set up Skill Tree and know which techs are worth using. I tend to rely on Rafoie and Gifoie for Fire, Barta for Ice, Gizonde for Lightning, Zan for Wind, Grants and Gigrants for Light and Megid / Ramegid / Samegid for Dark.

If Force was buffed any more it'd be horrendously overpowered. I will say though that it takes a decent amount of levels to get to the stage where you do high damage (maybe around 25-30?). I'm 43 now and my Force's damage is pretty obscene.

[[Ayumi]]

Can anyone translate what he said? Thx

He want the person to keep whining so they buff up and make Forces super over powered.

[gigawuts]

Kind of like what happened with elder rebellion and infinity fire.

[The Walrus]

Are those PA's really op or something?
(Hasn't gotten Gunner yet)

[Shirokami]

Are those PA's really op or something?
(Hasn't gotten Gunner yet)

There are some videos of Gunners dealing around 144k with those.

[The Walrus]

:|

I just...wow

[gigawuts]

Imagine if there was a video where every boss was downed in less than 30 seconds in VH by a single player, as a gunner/ranger, some even going down before the lady finishes telling you to watch out for the boss that just spawned.

Now imagine that when posted, people ask you to take the video down to avoid an inevitable shitstorm.

[The Walrus]

Welp. Just looked up a video of it. It's not getting nerfed is it.

[gigawuts]

Probably not.

[Z-0]

Probably not because it's all GU really has going for it. Roaming MPA and TA; they're mediocre compared to other classes (PS: I'm not saying they're bad, but it's pretty much a given that FO roams MPAs the best, for example, while FI/HU is pretty insane in the TA quests).

[Shirokami]

:|

I just...wow

That's the reason why I made a thread saying Force damage is mediocre.

[gigawuts]

Burst AOE damage: Force
Burst targeted damage: Ranger
Sustained damage: Hunter

Advanced classes are, well, alternate takes on the same intended role. Gunner is more defensive, techer is more defensive, and fighter is more directed damage (also less defensive).

The only thing that may need work is hunter, but I think it's fine for my playstyle.

As for why Force and Ranger are said to be OP or UP, here's a hint: If a gamemode is based around killing lots of things every 20 seconds because that's how long it takes for them to spawn again, the class specializing in AOE burst damage might be the best at this.
If a gamemode is based around killing one thing with a devastating amount of damage in a short amount of time, the class specializing in single-target damage might be the best at this.

The only one that really needs any love is hunter, and only as a way to get to the target fast enough. Which it has with daggers if you have FI in the mix, and now ride slasher too.

[MissMalice]

Here are my stats so far:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/ryokai_spacepirate/screenshots/pso20121104_132525_003.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/ryokai_spacepirate/screenshots/pso20121104_132534_004.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/ryokai_spacepirate/screenshots/pso20121104_132550_005.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

I bought an additional skill tree to help with being able to equip better weapons. My "best" weapon is a +8 Stella Twinkle [the little pink heart magical girl rod]. There are Forces more powerful than I am, but I'm still clearing very quickly and I don't really have any problems keeping up in MPAs. Takes only 5min to regain Photon Blast for the Ketos Proi photon regen as well [which is really nice for Forces since we chug photons so quickly].

If you're still having trouble with Force, it could just be you. I mean, my husband really only plays magic classes in other games and he didn't like Force. It just might not be for you, which happens~

Make your you're leveling your Techs. All of mine are 10 now. Of course, grind your weapon to as high as you can, tweak around with the attributes to get more damage, if you have the ability to do so. That's not what I did, but if you feel that you're lacking in some way, then min-maxing may be an option for you to boost your damage.

[rubykid15]

Hunter damage is ok if you have the proper gear set up and are fully buffed.

However, its main issue is that there are several classes that have a burst damage attack of some sort, which often make hunters garbage in mpas since everything dies before you get to hit it.

The only true benefit to a hunter imo, is sword PAs (mainly Rising Edge & Nova Strike maybe that Electric Holding skill) for which help largely in the breaking boss parts department.

Unfortunately you constantly have to be hitting weak points to feel useful.

[GoldenFalcon]

Hunter damage is ok if you have the proper gear set up and are fully buffed.

However, its main issue is that there are several classes that have a burst damage attack of some sort, which often make hunters garbage in mpas since everything dies before you get to hit it.

The only true benefit to a hunter imo, is sword PAs (mainly Rising Edge & Nova Strike maybe that Electric Holding skill) for which help largely in the breaking boss parts department.

Unfortunately you constantly have to be hitting weak points to feel useful.

Or Slide End
And Doublesaber Legacy with Deadly Archer for bosses

But when Lambda Patilumeria is out, can be main Fighter :B

[rubykid15]

Or Slide End
And Doublesaber Legacy with Deadly Archer for bosses

But when Lambda Patilumeria is out, can be main Fighter :B

Doublesaber Legacy is a MUST for HU/FI with bosses. However you have to make sure you buff it decently. Personally I'm attempting to get Vol Soul and Power 3 on mine. I managed the power 3 but Vol Soul is trolling.

[Shirokami]

[spoiler-box]http://i48.tinypic.com/255ucg6.jpg[/spoiler-box]

My stats right now, damage doesn't go over 300s

[Raymee]

Remember guys read his first post

Title.
Really, I'm dealing 4k + with my Ranger since level 9 and my Hunter used to deal 2k+ easily with one PA
But... I barely got to 1k damage at level 20 with a charged just time Rafoie to Dagans weakspot...

At lvl 20 he used rafoie to barely hit 1k


And then the post above mine : lv 11 lol

inb4 edit main post to change level 20 to 11

[Shirokami]

Remember guys read his first post


At lvl 20 he used rafoie to barely hit 1k


And then the post above mine : lv 11 lol

inb4 edit main post to change level 20 to 11

You should read carefully, I stated I began another force, this time female newman for more T-ATK.

[Dinosaur]

Make sure you're leveling your Techs.

This is an important factor that I never see taken into account for.

[Shirokami]

This is an important factor that I never see taken into account for.

I just asked a level 43 force what her average damage was.
It was 500s.
A hunter easily overpowers that with basic attacks -.-

[Rika-chan]

I just asked a level 43 force what her average damage was.
It was 500s.
A hunter easily overpowers that with basic attacks -.-

There's no way that can be right Q_Q

[Shirokami]

There's no way that can be right Q_Q

I asked Lyco, I hope she's not mad I mentioned her e.e but yeah, my damage was around that with around 900s T-ATK and that's why I deleted my first force.

[Z-0]

Probably Gifoie, Gibarta, Rabarta, Zan, Gizan, Razan, Sazan, Ramegid on not-weak enemies. Sounds really weak.

I now realise this guy is a huge troll, thanks for pointing that out Raymee. I read some other posts and it's pretty obvious (DEX gives larger damage output than pure attack!).

[Shirokami]

Probably Gifoie, Gibarta, Rabarta, Zan, Gizan, Razan, Sazan, Ramegid on not-weak enemies. Sounds really weak.

I now realise this guy is a huge troll, thanks for pointing that out Raymee. I read some other posts and it's pretty obvious (DEX gives larger damage output than pure attack!).

You should read that twice boy instead of changing it to your own convenience to make me look like a "Troll"

[mykristian]

I'm not sure how a level 43 force can average around 500 damage. But force is not weak at all. I can pump out 3-6k on enemies not even mentioning bosses with weak bullet I can rafoie ragne's weak spot for 15k. Paired up with PP conversion and charge PP revival bosses go down quick.

No buffs or medical drinks.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/9XSQY.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
With Shifta Drink Ex
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/dvrcc.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
With Shifta drink Ex and Shifta level 12
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/cvXm3.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
My current weapon
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/pOkcG.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
And currently the unit set Im using all with Ragne soul and Tech III
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/OZQz6.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
And the force/techer trees I use.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/lKwQ1.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/Pg1GA.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/SmdMV.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
And a creeper face for ama.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/nPghi.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Shirokami]

I'm not sure how a level 43 force can average around 500 damage. But force is not weak at all. I can pump out 3-6k on enemies not even mentioning bosses with weak bullet I can rafoie ragne's weak spot for 15k. Paired up with PP conversion and charge PP revival bosses go down quick.

No buffs or medical drinks.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/9XSQY.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
With Shifta Drink Ex
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/dvrcc.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
With Shifta drink Ex and Shifta level 12
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/cvXm3.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
My current weapon
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/pOkcG.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
And currently the unit set Im using all with Ragne soul and Tech III
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/OZQz6.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
And the force/techer trees I use.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/lKwQ1.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/Pg1GA.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/SmdMV.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
And a creeper face for ama.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/nPghi.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Thanks a lot for everything :D I asked for a build like at the second or third page and you're the first one who gave me one <3 thx thx
It seems Force needs to have awesome equips like yours to be comparable with other classes damage output in single target, but I bet the crowd control is great with all those thingies.
Let's see what buffs are given to Techer on the following updates.
Once again, thanks :3

[Seraphus]

Thanks a lot for everything :D I asked for a build like at the second or third page and you're the first one who gave me one <3 thx thx
It seems Force needs to have awesome equips like yours to be comparable with other classes damage output in single target, but I bet the crowd control is great with all those thingies.
Let's see what buffs are given to Techer on the following updates.
Once again, thanks :3

People gave you builds, at least MissMalice did. You don't need those awesome equips to be comparable for single targets. If you count multi-part bosses as single targets, Zan also wrecks them.

What you need to do is compare same level, similarly equipped characters and not numbers you just "remembered". Of course, if your HU or RA is well equipped and your FO isn't, obviously it would look like FO is "mediocre"

[Amaranthus]

And a creeper face for ama.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/nPghi.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Loool.

And the dragons do not jump charge Noelle, they pee and run inb4megid! XD

[Shirokami]

People gave you builds, at least MissMalice did. You don't need those awesome equips to be comparable for single targets. If you count multi-part bosses as single targets, Zan also wrecks them.

What you need to do is compare same level, similarly equipped characters and not numbers you just "remembered". Of course, if your HU or RA is well equipped and your FO isn't, obviously it would look like FO is "mediocre"

... Techs can hit several parts of bosses? o.o
That explains the Gimegid spam at Varder...
And hey, my FO is well equipped D:

[Amaranthus]

Um... Just my thought on this. I'm a RA by heart and we all know they rely on weak spots for damage. So I recently leveled FO and I could say the "average" damage on Dagans with Rafoie is 500-ish, yes, but that isn't on a weak spot.. Despite the rafoie skill going BOOM, you have to lock or nail on a weak spot for it to deal decent damage. Just like how the other classes nail theirs.

[freyt]

Is that uncharged or something? And what level?

As a 25/36 Te/Fo in Hard Mode Dagan Extermination, on Dagan's I was doing 900+ with JA's, 700~ without. On weak points, 1900+ with JA's and 1600+ without. That's with charging my techs.

[Amaranthus]

Is that uncharged or something? And what level?

As a 25/36 Te/Fo in Hard Mode Dagan Extermination, on Dagan's I was doing 900+ with JA's, 700~ without. On weak points, 1900+ with JA's and 1600+ without. That's with charging my techs.

Wait.. XD Forget I said Dagans.. It's just that when I think of 500 rafoie damage (with respect to Shiro's post) dagans and their not-so-convenient weak spot (for rafoie) first comes to mind. ^^;

[Nerineri]

Did you use both charge tech and just charge tech for your tech?

[Crystal_Shard]

@Shirokami: Seems to me like you aren't making full use of all the possible modifiers you could take advantage of that aren't affix/weapon related.


Like Nerineri above me suggested, did you get Charge Advance 1 and 2? Have you maxed both?
Did you dilute your SP across the Skill Tree, or kept it firmly within a single branch?
Are your techs the maximum level you can handle?
Are you always hitting weak points and using the correct elemental weakness?
Are you using the best Shifta Drinks that are available?
Do you always have Shifta on?
Is your Mag optimised for a Force character?
Are you using Techer/Techter as your subclass?


Even if you're subbing one of the other classes, there are tricks you can use to boost your damage, such a WB from Ranger, Chaining from Gunner, or Brave/Wise Stance from Fighter. Hunter gives more defensive stats imo, but that will add to your survivability instead.

If all the modifiers are lined up nicely, I can do about 2000-2200 damage using Foie or Ra Foie as a level 44 newman female Force/Fighter - on average I will get about 1700-1900 against weak points and 700-900 elsewhere.

As for equipment, my affixes are tuned towards HP and defense rather than offense. No Soul + Tech III stuff for me - Doodoo isn't kind enough and I'm not willing to save up the meseta to afford one of the fully grinded rares. I do use souls whenever I can because every single HP + 20 goes a long way towards not being cannon fodder to VH bosses (especially Quartz) I'm using the Salvadore series of Rods (currently the Lambda variant, which adds about 100 more T-Atk over the Original), by no means a top end series, and there's a lot of reasonably priced rods out there now, most of them rares from the last gen.

[Lumpen Thingy]

last time I checked forces are awesome mob killers and rangers are great boss killers but to each there own

[Skyly HUmar]

What you need to do is compare same level, similarly equipped characters and not numbers you just "remembered". Of course, if your HU or RA is well equipped and your FO isn't, obviously it would look like FO is "mediocre"

Damnit sera you beat me to it.

[Shirokami]

Like Nerineri above me suggested, did you get Charge Advance 1 and 2? Have you maxed both?
Did you dilute your SP across the Skill Tree, or kept it firmly within a single branch?
Are your techs the maximum level you can handle?
Are you always hitting weak points and using the correct elemental weakness?
Are you using the best Shifta Drinks that are available?
Do you always have Shifta on?
Is your Mag optimised for a Force character?
Are you using Techer/Techter as your subclass?



Now dealing 260 x 3 with Zan on Forest enemies, almost the damage of a 3 hit combo of a hunter, not bad~

[gigawuts]

You should have been dealing roughly that before anyway, race/gender combo base stats don't matter that much except for very early levels. Mags, gear, and skill trees even out the differences to usually less than 50.

Make sure you go directly for PP revival. It's the entire point of force. It's like weak bullet on ranger, except always in effect.

[Miraclearrow]

^Boom

[Shirokami]

You should have been dealing roughly that before anyway, race/gender combo base stats don't matter that much except for very early levels. Mags, gear, and skill trees even out the differences to usually less than 50.

Make sure you go directly for PP revival. It's the entire point of force. It's like weak bullet on ranger, except always in effect.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?bdIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIbIn00000 0ib00000ib00000ib0000GOH22XIx00007b00000f

I'm thinking about building this, what do you think?

[gigawuts]

90 more T-atk is a hell of a lot less effective than another 30% multiplier to your damage.

Other forces will give you tips on what to do with the excess SP, but I can say with fair certainty that if you want to use purely fire techs then you should drop t-atk ups to as low as they can go, lose burn boost, and pool into the flame masteries. What do you do with the last 5 SP? Make a paperweight, I don't know.

[Miraclearrow]

Ya, flame mastery as of now seems to by far be the best way to go.

[Zorafim]

Sorry... but why is there a thread about Force having low damage? As a caseal who's leveling every class, nothing touches force's overall damage output. Mind, this is only because fire is so overpowered at the moment, so I can agree that a non-skill tree'd force may not have great damage. But once you get those modifiers up and a +10 weapon, there's no stopping you.


http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?bdIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIbIn00000 0ib00000ib00000ib0000GOH22XIx00007b00000f

I'm thinking about building this, what do you think?

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?bdIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIbIn00000 0ib00000ib00000ib0000AoIk2XcK00007b00000f

The modifiers make a much bigger difference than static points. Tatk up is only good for equipping new items, which is what the mag is for anyway. Also, if you're subbing techer, get at least this:

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?bdIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIbIn00000 0ib00000ib00000ib0000AoIk2XcK000064O7dI2cF4Q50007

Flame's only downside is its PP starvation, which techer helps with.

[Shirokami]

Sorry... but why is there a thread about Force having low damage? As a caseal who's leveling every class, nothing touches force's overall damage output. Mind, this is only because fire is so overpowered at the moment, so I can agree that a non-skill tree'd force may not have great damage. But once you get those modifiers up and a +10 weapon, there's no stopping you.



http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?bdIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIbIn00000 0ib00000ib00000ib0000AoIk2XcK00007b00000f

The modifiers make a much bigger difference than static points. Tatk up is only good for equipping new items, which is what the mag is for anyway. Also, if you're subbing techer, get at least this:

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?bdIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIYIkIbIn00000 0ib00000ib00000ib0000AoIk2XcK000064O7dI2cF4Q50007

Flame's only downside is its PP starvation, which techer helps with.

Thanks, that build looks a lot better, btw, why no Shifta Advance on Techer? Is it bad?

[Zorafim]

It's bad.

I can't remember the exact numbers, but something like, a 60 point boost improvement? When we've got more than a thousand? Basically, buffs aren't worth using because of how often they need to be refreshed, how little they boost, and how long each refresh takes. The time saved by killing enemies faster isn't worth the time used to buff everyone

[gigawuts]

It's bad.

I can't remember the exact numbers, but something like, a 60 point boost improvement? When we've got more than a thousand? Basically, buffs aren't worth using because of how often they need to be refreshed, how little they boost, and how long each refresh takes. The time saved by killing enemies faster isn't worth the time used to buff everyone

1% per level to the boost you get from shifta. So if you get 200 points with shifta active, you now get 220.

For 10 SP.

As opposed to 50 for an up skill, or more ideally 20% damage for a mastery.

[Miraclearrow]

^ Ya, the real question should be...Why doesnt shift and deband last longer at level 10...

[Zorafim]

Does it last longer at 11? I know in previous PSOs, shifta was garbage until about mid way, when it became practical. Then at the cap, it became necessary because of how great it is. Because of how low the skill cap is now (15?), it makes sense that it wouldn't be all that useful... But still, I think this is the worst shifta I've ever seen!

[gigawuts]

No, it's still pretty much the same at 12. It's pretty annoying to recast. I just found shifta 14 yesterday, so I can give that a test today.

Shifta advance should really be +200% duration at 10, and territory boost should be a permanent boost to range instead of an active skill.

[Z-0]

Same duration at 14, as well, for both Shifta and Deband. I was thinking that the Advances should also give a duration boost; will have to see what SEGA does with those skills this week (if anything).

[Miraclearrow]

Oh wow, thats news to me that you can get shifta 15 lol. That said, you're right though...the other issue is you're all slow when you're casting and the range is small unless you wasted skill on that shifta and deband aoe moves (which you're really stupid if you did) and thats a problem too!

So they should boost it, because it's not worth it IMO. At least boost it for techers to make a battle caster style possible. Because that was a big point of techer that is really not worth it at this point in the game. AMIRIGHT!?

[Zorafim]

I'd love a paladin style on techers. Melee most the time, use your PP on healing and support.

[gigawuts]

Wand gear could easily be integrated into this, buffing techs similarly to the way sword gear buffs PA's. Some get extra damage, some get extra range, some get extra duration.

[Miraclearrow]

Ya, i think the possibilities are definitely there. They just need to capitalize on it :D. Glad I'm not the only one who feels the same.


PS.
Force's do a lot of damage/AOE, this is kind of a pointless thread :(

[Shirokami]

Well, I'd like to level up and test Force and mainly, enjoy it, but the HDD where I had PSO2 Installed died (It was 7 years old veteran) And now I'll have to re-DL everything.

Getting a bit more on topic, what's the actual duration of shifta/deband? 30 secs?
SEGA should increase it's duration :/ Do JPs complain about it?

[gigawuts]

I hear it's 60 seconds but never bother actually looking at the clock. Whatever it is exactly, it's not very long. Most of that time is spent walking around, or better spent just casting a damage tech instead of buffing at all because that's all you'd have needed to kill something off - 1 more damage tech.

It's good in most codes and PSE bursts, when you know you'll be in an area for at least about a minute or two. Basically, if you expect to cast more than 4 techs in 60 seconds, shifta is a good thing to cast beforehand.

[Shirokami]

I hear it's 60 seconds but never bother actually looking at the clock. Whatever it is exactly, it's not very long. Most of that time is spent walking around, or better spent just casting a damage tech instead of buffing at all because that's all you'd have needed to kill something off - 1 more damage tech.

It's good in most codes and PSE bursts, when you know you'll be in an area for at least about a minute or two. Basically, if you expect to cast more than 4 techs in 60 seconds, shifta is a good thing to cast beforehand.

I see... anyways, we have to see what happens after Techer "fixes"

offtopic:[spoiler-box] http://i48.tinypic.com/2lliseo.jpg [/spoiler-box]
Kill me, please.

[Z-0]

Shifta is 15 seconds per "burst", and can stack up to 60 seconds maximum, charged or uncharged.

[Ogni-XR21]

Each pulse of Shifta or Deband gives 15 seconds of buff. So in order to have it for 1 minute you must get all 4 pulses. You have to wait for the 4 pulses to be done before casting the next buff otherwise you might cancel your previous buff.

As much as I love PSO2 I really miss playing "real" support. I hope this changes in the future and support gets a more love but I kind of doubt it.

Btw. talking about underpowered Forces, OP must have never played PSO/Force/Ultimate.

[Miraclearrow]

Just megid every single unit in an area to death ^ was so fun. Ya, real support is missing and I hope they add something to make it worth it. Because that would be awesome. Like some kind of MAJOR techer bonus for casting it plus increased duration. And making something down the shift deband lines that made a support/attacker class :D