Question about which Technics to use?

[Melodys]

I've been away from PSO2 for some time when the lvl cap was still 40 but when I had returned to play a bit casually, I see that there had been several changes to which techniques people use. Rafoie, which had been my main offense tech before, is still pretty good but looking at the power charts, Foie now does a bit more damage than it at lvl 10+. Unfortunately, I'm still stuck doing cap quests and it's a slow crawl when you have to solo most of it.

Anywho, I have read that people recommend that I use Zan and Ramegid in my skillset but I find both of them hard to use. I know you can't have the enemy be near a wall or a tree to use it and you'll need to be at mid-distance for maximum damage output but I find that rather hard to do and it seems more situational than expected. As for Ramegid, do you either jump or use a Talis and throw it into the air before launching it like Razonde? So far, I only find a use for it for slower bosses like Vardha or Mizer which is to say not very much general usage.

[Gama]

use all of them. thats what i do. they all adjust to certain situations.

[holmwood]

Use techs based on elemental weakness. :) Especially if you're going the sub-techer route.

Ramegid is more useful for status infliction through non-charged casts from my experience. I've seen it do wonderful things with a fighter subclass. I tried using it with talis, and it was not very successful... the radius is too small. For dark-weak mobs, I usually just use megid as a long range force.... homing is useful with mobs like quartz dragon that move around alot.

Zan? I personally don't get the hype. I don't think it's that great. There are only a few mobs weak to wind atm, and the boomerang effect is too random... but it's likely that I suck at using it. I prefer to lock on to enemy weakpoints to maximize my damage, and so I would use Ra Zan if the mob was weak to wind.

[Miraclearrow]

^ Zan does a lot of damage for Techer! That said, the fire technique (RaFoie) is generally one of the best techs to go with. When you level the fire skill tree it is the best damage output overall (at this point).

[Alenoir]

Zan? I personally don't get the hype. I don't think it's that great. There are only a few mobs weak to wind atm, and the boomerang effect is too random... but it's likely that I suck at using it. I prefer to lock on to enemy weakpoints to maximize my damage, and so I would use Ra Zan if the mob was weak to wind.

It depends on where you're using Zan at. Zan disappears if it hits a wall or when it boomerang back to you, so if you have a really huge opening area (boss rooms), Zan does silly amount of hits.

[MissMalice]

I really use pretty much all of them and alternate. I have at least two level 10 skills of each element that I normally use:

On-point attacks like Rafoie on one hotkey, a radial attack on another, and Resta taking up the third. Which Techs I actually use depends on the area I'm going to. This is what I usually have set up for each area:

Forest: I know that all the native mobs are weak to Fire and Wind, so I use RaFoie as my On-Point skill. I also know that Darkers spawn here often as well, so I keep Gigrants on the second hotkey.
Volcano: Natives are weak to Ice, so I keep either Barta or Rabarta on hand and Gigrants for Darkers.
Desert: Gizonde for the Natives and Gigrants for Darkers.
Tundra: Gifoie for the Natives, but the Darkers here are very different from the ones on the previous maps. The small, turtle-like Darkers have a small weakpoint on their back to target, and the giant shield Darkers are weak on their belly and back. So, I use Grants as my On-Point attack.
Sub. Tunnels: Same set-up as Desert!
Floating Continent: I like Ramegid more for FC. The natives here will actively jump around in anticipation of your attack, making it harder to use Gimegid on them [because they are smart enough to avoid them!]. The darkers here are just like the ones in Tundra, so I use Grants for them.

And that's all the areas I have unlocked at the moment~ Hope this is helpful in any way. ^_^

[Shadowth117]

Its really some what opinion based to an extent with the TPS mechanics and all, but a good mix is probably best. Shifta and Deband are kind of given so I won't list those.

Rafoie DEFINITELY still has its uses for its speed with a fire tree and general power. It'll hit almost any target without fault and with AOE. You can kind of snipe with it really. Foie is great and all, but if a target is moving a lot (HI BANTHER CLAWS) it may not hit it so easily. Gifoie is actually decent damage at 11+ and even before staggers enemies and has a better vertical hitbox than Gigrants. Safoie is interesting and has use, but of course if you're not hitting the enemy with every hit you're not doing more DPS than you would with rafoie.

Barta is basically barta in PSU, but faster and it homes. Simple spell, not much to say. Gibarta sends out a sort of cone of AOE that can be good, but will be outdone by rabarta if one can get that close. Rabarta is a very good ice AOE that's useful for stun locking enemies and clearly it freezes too. Sabarta, I can't comment on since I haven't used it.

Zonde is selectively useful, although a lightning tree will really benefit you. It will NOT go through walls which is worth knowing. Its powerful enough although without a lightning tree its not at its best. Razonde is alright, but not very effective due to its range. You can throw it into the air with a talis or jump from somewhere and use it, but it feels outdone by other techs normally. Gizonde particularly seems to make it worthless since it runs between enemies like nodes and is fairly powerful in groups. Sazonde is interesting, but doesn't feel very worthwhile in the end since it attaches to a spot on an enemy and hits multiple times. Zondeel is actually very interesting since it works as a sort of vaccum. Its useful, but does not stun/hurt enemies unless "ignited" with zonde, gizonde, or razonde. It is great for gathering groups though so far it hasn't seemed useful for TA in particular. It does work on minibosses and some bosses which is worth noting for capture codes and such. (ex. Umbra, Caterdran, Tranmizer).

Zan is an interesting tech since its very powerful even without its boomerang effect, but with it it is probably the most powerful tech at the moment when used effectively. Obviously you know to use it in open space and such, but its worth noting that certain enemies with large hitspots (ie code destruction sphere, and certain others) will nullify its penetration. Razan is a meh tech. Its main draw is that its a small vacuum. Its not particularly great to me. Sazan is interesting in that its pretty much Razan, but it instead launches enemies straight up. Not useful so far as I can tell, but amusing. Nazan is a close range tech which simply launches small enemies although this isn't very great either and neither is its damage. Gizan is the AOE tech of of the wind techs although I don't find it terribly useful given its range and its power.

Grants is like Rafoie without the AOE, it does have more power however and also tends to hit certain targets far more reliably like the Banther faces. Gigrants is a great light AOE that probably does the most damage out of gi/ra AOE's right now. It hits fairly close together which can be very nice for hit stunning enemies, though the end can leave you open if the enemy is faster. Ragrants, I haven't used so I can't comment on.

Samegid, megid, and gimegid are all good situationally. Samegid will only do its full damage mid-long range, but its the most powerful dark tech for sure and is best fired locked on for homing. Megid is a slower tech by this game's standards, but it also has homing and its homing is rather increditble. Its not particularly weak either. Gimegid isn't bad and does near samegid's damage, but only on targets that don't move a lot and only short-mid range since it doesn't go as far. It has a lag from the time you fire to the time it hits in which it'll stick to the same area which can often lead to it attacking nothing if you're not careful. Ramegid seems like it could be useful if everything hits, but everything would have to hit. Also, megids AOE aimed at the ground has a wider radius... Dark techs are probably the hardest techs to use effectively right now.

Basically, my thoughts on these coming from my experience in TA's, etc. My most used techs right now are probably rafoie, zan, gigrants, and samegid/megid in that order although I'll mix in others situationally.

Edit: Foie also has the ability to continue on if it just, if you will, grazes an enemy. "Foie grazing" is a term my teammates dubbed the technique which we often use on the mammoth pairs in the TA run.

[gigawuts]

Techs that are amazingly useful in most situations and keep on my no matter what I'm fighting:
Rafoie
Zan
Gizonde
Zondeel
Gigrants
Shifta

After that are the ones I find particularly useful myself, since I have bolt PP save 10 and fight banthers a lot these days:
Grants
Zonde
Razan

Then I swap in safoie, gifoie, gibarta, and occasionally samegid depending on what I'm fighting.

I have yet to get my hands on ragrants, I might wind up loving that.

[Shirokami]

Techs that are amazingly useful in most situations and keep on my no matter what I'm fighting:
Rafoie
Zan
Gizonde
Zondeel
Gigrants
Shifta

After that are the ones I find particularly useful myself, since I have bolt PP save 10 and fight banthers a lot these days:
Grants
Zonde
Razan

Then I swap in safoie, gifoie, gibarta, and occasionally samegid depending on what I'm fighting.

I have yet to get my hands on ragrants, I might wind up loving that.

Does Bolt PP save reduce PP consume for all the techs? O.o

[freyt]

Bolt PP Save only reduces for the zonde techs.

Also Rafoie works on everything. It's instant hit that never misses is particularly useful. If you spec all your points into Fire Mastery, Flame S Charge, and PP Revival, you can't go wrong. There are those who say Zan is better. I disagree, but they can bring up some good points.

[Shadowth117]

Also Rafoie works on everything. It's instant hit that never misses is particularly useful. If you spec all your points into Fire Mastery, Flame S Charge, and PP Revival, you can't go wrong. There are those who say Zan is better. I disagree, but they can bring up some good points.

This is going off experience with lock on mechanics, but it should remain valid. Rafoie definitely does "miss". Try hitting a banther face a ranger weak shotted when its not broken and see what I mean. Grants will hit this, but rafoie will not. A better example would be Caters where when they extend themselves, attacking the tail with lock on results in the damage hitting the exposed soft area. Grants doesn't care and hits the tail anyway. And there's also when Ragne is down. Attacking either of the front legs will result in the damage hitting his main body with Rafoie while Grants ignores this and hits them anyway.

As for Zan, its a different type of tech, rather reminiscent of the PSU shotguns in a way in that it tends to work best when launched from close proximity. Of course, it also comes back around which adds a lot to it. This of course, throws accuracy against specific areas out the window. If not so for the initial launch then for the wraparound.

But yes those skills are likely the best overall. PP revival in particular seems to make Force far, far better in the end. I would argue that the charged tech bonus skills in the fire tree are extremely useful as well for a general force tree.

[gigawuts]

Does Bolt PP save reduce PP consume for all the techs? O.o

No, just lightning techs. I mentioned I have the skill because without it Zonde is kind of useless. It doesn't hit particularly hard for its base PP cost, it's prone to missing fast moving airborne things (more so than rafoie), and it can't be cast from behind cover.

But with bolt PP save 10 and a small area it becomes one of the better things to have on your palette. It can certainly be better than zan if applied right under the right circumstances, costing just 13 PP, hitting instantly, and not spreading at long range, providing you're focusing on only a couple clustered enemies. Zan is by far the better choice in many situations, though.

Ra zan lifts enemies, good for a couple choice enemies that you might not want doing their thing (gorongos, wonda twins, wynderas, signo beats, etc.)

Then grants, as mentioned, is the tech of choice to use on banther and banshees. It's far more accurate than rafoie and will hit the head far more reliably.

[freyt]

This is going off experience with lock on mechanics, but it should remain valid. Rafoie definitely does "miss". Try hitting a banther face a ranger weak shotted when its not broken and see what I mean. Grants will hit this, but rafoie will not. A better example would be Caters where when they extend themselves, attacking the tail with lock on results in the damage hitting the exposed soft area. Grants doesn't care and hits the tail anyway. And there's also when Ragne is down. Attacking either of the front legs will result in the damage hitting his main body with Rafoie while Grants ignores this and hits them anyway.

I've never had these things happen to me, but are you sure it's not because grants hits from the outside, while Rafoie ignores what's inside or outside? You might not be hitting your intended point, but you're still hitting your target.

And for troubles with weak point targeting, you can do the manual target, and Rafoie will just instant blast anything you're pointed on. Including Rockbear's face.

[Omega-z]

I find Ra Zan and Sa Zan pretty useful actually. They Can do what both Ra Foie and Grantz can do by hiding behind cover. Ra Zan is more damaging then Ra Foie but with more hit's instead of one. There both useful in crowd control especially the Code: Protect's where AOE kill what you are protecting. I could see Na Zan being use this way also. And are easier to combo with other Tech's too.

^And also what gigawuts said " Ra zan lifts enemies, good for a couple choice enemies that you might not want doing their thing (gorongos, wonda twins, wynderas, signo beats, etc.)"

Also Ra Zan can also stop the Rock Bear's flip by sucking it in place.

[Shadowth117]

I've never had these things happen to me, but are you sure it's not because grants hits from the outside, while Rafoie ignores what's inside or outside? You might not be hitting your intended point, but you're still hitting your target.

And for troubles with weak point targeting, you can do the manual target, and Rafoie will just instant blast anything you're pointed on. Including Rockbear's face.

Believe me, I know about the manual targeting. Its very useful in its own right for example like yours. But For the cater, ragne, and banthers it definitely not hitting the correct area sometimes. If I'm locked onto the tail, the attack shouldn't be impacting on another spots. Similar things happen with spells like megid.

If you want more proof that its not hitting the right target, sub ranger and weak shot a cater's tail point, lock onto it while its stretched, and try rafoieing. Than try grantsing. Its fairly clear which one is hitting correctly and what's not this way.

As for why I choose to use lock on rather than manual, TPS targeting normally, I use a controller and I haven't optimized my controls to work with manual targeting. By default, targeting controls for TPS mode are terrible on the controller because of their positioning. So far, I haven't had quite enough of a reason to rework them though since it works well enough for what I've needed so far.


Edit: Also, yes I was confused on the Sazan/Razan thing. They look very similar and I don't use either regularly ><

[Crystal_Shard]

@Shakuri:Gi Barta got a boost? When did that happen? Just a power boost or a range boost?

---

Anyway just adding to everyone's tips...

Foie is great in the forest, especially along the many corridors you run along, mostly because of the grazing damage it does. It's just lovely to fire off one and see a long line of damage numbers appear ahead of you. Zan is great when there's lots of wide open spaces and room for the wind blades to boomerang back to you.

Megid is great on the FC imo. I use it in a similar way to Foie, in that I force the mobs to run a gauntlet of constantly fired Megid. Megid's splash damage usually takes care of the rest.

Ra Zan and Sa Zan are good partners. Ra Zan knocks mobs off their feet (Garongos and others that can be staggered) while Sa Zan keeps them in one place. Most of the Zan spells are actually pretty effective against Gwanadha.

[Z-0]

Yes, Gibarta got a huge boost. I have a maxed Fire tree and no Ice Mastery, but I do more with Gibarta than (Ra)foie in Caves. I also do a ridiculous amount of damage on Vol; more with Gibarta than Megid and I have +20% extra damage from Dark Mastery (~9,000 with Gibarta and ~7,000 with Megid on a weak bulleted horn, iirc). I don't have Gimegid though, that might be ridiculously overpowered on stationary enemies.

I kind of don't use Rafoie very much anymore, it's usually Foie instead, but all I ever play are the TA quests so whatever. The grazing is really useful in plenty of situations, and don't forget it has slightly more base power now, while also being able to hit the Banther's head (Banshee needs the mane breaking for foie or grants to hit it, while Rafoie still misses!).

[Shadowth117]

Yes, Gibarta got a huge boost. I have a maxed Fire tree and no Ice Mastery, but I do more with Gibarta than (Ra)foie in Caves. I also do a ridiculous amount of damage on Vol; more with Gibarta than Megid and I have +20% extra damage from Dark Mastery (~9,000 with Gibarta and ~7,000 with Megid on a weak bulleted horn, iirc). I don't have Gimegid though, that might be ridiculously overpowered on stationary enemies.


Gimegid lv 14 is beat out by Samegid lv 6 when all hits get in which I find pretty sad. Its still more useful at close range than Samegid because of Samegid's odd close range damage, but Samegid will generally do more damage. Megid is just good for its stupidly good homing and how all of its damage comes out at once.

[Shirokami]

And for troubles with weak point targeting, you can do the manual target, and Rafoie will just instant blast anything you're pointed on. Including Rockbear's face.

I do this and it feels so GOOD!
.-
Also, I've got to test Gibarta, it's ice type so it should deal more damage in caves than other technics.
10 more hours till DL is done, then the patching...

[Z-0]

Well Gwana won't drop me Samegid. Seen 2 and got meseta squares because they hate me. Tempted to buy it (735k right now), but it's possible that the price will drop when the rare boss increase gets implemented.

[Shadowth117]

Well Gwana won't drop me Samegid. Seen 2 and got meseta squares because they hate me. Tempted to buy it (735k right now), but it's possible that the price will drop when the rare boss increase gets implemented.

Yeah if you haven't gotten it, I would wait for that update and buy it. Definitely worth the cash.

[Shirokami]

Well Gwana won't drop me Samegid. Seen 2 and got meseta squares because they hate me. Tempted to buy it (735k right now), but it's possible that the price will drop when the rare boss increase gets implemented.

It will surely drop, save your meseta bro, times are rough lately unless your have a TA party.

[Crystal_Shard]

Yes, Gibarta got a huge boost. I have a maxed Fire tree and no Ice Mastery, but I do more with Gibarta than (Ra)foie in Caves. I also do a ridiculous amount of damage on Vol; more with Gibarta than Megid and I have +20% extra damage from Dark Mastery (~9,000 with Gibarta and ~7,000 with Megid on a weak bulleted horn, iirc). I don't have Gimegid though, that might be ridiculously overpowered on stationary enemies.

I kind of don't use Rafoie very much anymore, it's usually Foie instead, but all I ever play are the TA quests so whatever. The grazing is really useful in plenty of situations, and don't forget it has slightly more base power now, while also being able to hit the Banther's head (Banshee needs the mane breaking for foie or grants to hit it, while Rafoie still misses!).

I think Ra Foie is still unmatched when pinpoint striking darker weakpoints, especially manual TPS'ing Dagans, but Foie is definitely my favourite for nearly any situation. I just love that grazing damage.

inb4 Ra Foie returns to its former nuking glory. Anyway, looks like I should re-examine Gi Barta again.

[Shadowth117]

inb4 Ra Foie returns to its former nuking glory.

Oh man... if that ever happened, screw weak bullet.

[Crystal_Shard]

Ice Mastery x 2 + Gibarta = Gigrants with the ability to freeze, more stagger potential due to delay between hits and enemy recovery animations, and range that is infinitely more stupid. Though I'd wager not many people had any idea about Gibarta getting a boost since it wasn't really mentioned in any updates (though it happened some time ago). Still, a tech worth looking into regardless of your mastery.

Hmm, that might be a good reason to buy a spare skill tree to play with. I've been looking for an excuse to make a force with an ice specialty.

[holmwood]

Ice Mastery x 2 + Gibarta = Gigrants with the ability to freeze, more stagger potential due to delay between hits and enemy recovery animations, and range that is infinitely more stupid. Though I'd wager not many people had any idea about Gibarta getting a boost since it wasn't really mentioned in any updates (though it happened some time ago). Still, a tech worth looking into regardless of your mastery.

I concur. People were so mean to me because I wasn't using Rabarta in the caves MPA. . . ^^;

[gigawuts]

Ice Mastery x 2 + Gibarta = Gigrants with the ability to freeze, more stagger potential due to delay between hits and enemy recovery animations, and range that is infinitely more stupid. Though I'd wager not many people had any idea about Gibarta getting a boost since it wasn't really mentioned in any updates (though it happened some time ago). Still, a tech worth looking into regardless of your mastery.

I find myself using zondeel and gibarta a lot when going as a melee class with a tech class as a sub, regardless of which I choose. A properly placed gibarta will hit everything in a spawn. This is especially good in maps with small areas such as the mines, where things spawn in a focused clump or are forced into a bottleneck. The ability to freeze is definitely secondary to the flinch it inflicts, and with such a huge area of effect it's hard to go wrong with it even if you don't charge it.

[Zyrusticae]

Meh.

I only use Megid.

Don't need anything else. Nope. :innocent: