Adventure?

[LordChampion]

I've just now realized what's missing from this game that PSO had... It's a sense of grand adventure. Even within the grind of PSO, that sense was there, but PSO2 feels like... a job. The ARKS organization is a cleansing crew, destroying the native population of other worlds, robbing their resources, and installing its own people, and my character then is just a tool.

Of course, this is one man's perspective and I'd love to be wrong, but I can't enjoy myself when I think of it this way and I so badly want to enjoy the game. So what do I do? How can I capture that sense of adventure?

[BIG OLAF]

Play PSO.

[Griffin]

Right^

[LordChampion]

Oh come on now, I'm trying to usher in some constructive discourse here. We get plenty of your type comments, Olaf, and it's obviously not appreciated and you've brought nothing to the table.

[gigawuts]

Damn straight, why should a sequel have any resemblance to the game that succeeded enough to warrant a sequel?

PSO2 should in no way, shape, or form be similar to PSO1, lest someone cry "nostalgia!" Don't like something about this game? Don't let anyone know to see if they agree and perhaps let the people who will make the next story know what you would find fun, just disappear and do what Big Olaf said.

But really, I agree. We're pretty much just killing everything for sport and any sense of exploration is absent until you get to ruins, at which point the environment finally provokes a smidgen of thought beyond what is asked on screen in the handful of story quests.

[BIG OLAF]

Oh come on now, I'm trying to usher in some constructive discourse here. We get plenty of your type comments, Olaf, and it's obviously not appreciated and you've brought nothing to the table.

Oh, you flatter me.

But really, PSO2 isn't the same kind of game. It's not really meant to be a "mysterious, atmospheric, immersive adventure" like PSO was. It's more akin to a fast-paced, pick-up-and-play arcade title.

[LordChampion]

I can understand that, Olaf, for sure. I'm looking for more PURPOSE in the pick-up-and-play environment, I suppose, not simply pining for what was.

[gigawuts]

I'm not sure how atmospheric & immersive is mutually exclusive to fast-paced or pick-up-and-play.

I think it's more likely that they just didn't put in the effort to create better, more appealing, and more interesting environments. They did what was passable.

[Arika]

In PSO1, most people start their first time in offline mode I think that is why you feel more of adventure. Because if you suddently start online, you might join into the room that beat forest in 5 min, cave in 10 min, and all speed rushing kill everything. How would that make you feel of any adventure-like?

If you start it back in the DC day with offline mode like me, you would get a lot of feeling of progression, you explore forest more and more via quest, and then you finally reach the end to kill dragon, very good impression!

May be this game may feel more adventure like if they force you to progress story to unlock new area. But they will only get more complain from people who wanna do thing quickly.

[valmont]

isn't adventuring is finding boxes of treasure and fighting mobs?

[terrell707]

The game will never really feel like an adventure because of the internet. As Arika said, how will anything feel like an adventure when: Sega makes videos showing almost everything that will be in the next update, you can just ask a question and someone will be able to answer it right away, if you get stuck you can just browse the interwebs until you find the answer. Kind of knocks the sense of mystery and adventure out of the game.

[Rawr]

I think for me the biggest thing I am noticing, and it may be due to splitting the areas to three planets, is that there is never really a sense of progression in terms of where the character/story is actually taking me. In PSO you were going from one area to the next, but usually in the boss arena there was a bit of a connection to the next area. It felt like there was more of a point A to point B type thing going on. PSO2 seems more scattered.

You're on one planet in a forest, go to the next planet for the caves, go to the next planet for the desert - and then go back to the first planet for what is a progression of the forest and then so on. To me I kind of miss the sense of continuity between the areas and the feeling of progression from PSO, but its not such a huge deal to me - rather just one piece of PSO that I wish would have been retained :). Otherwise I am quite enjoying the game.

[lostinseganet]

We neeed gameplay that does not involve killing. I loved the carnival in pso. Soccer was fun when you had enough people. Perhaps pso sports?

[The Walrus]

I think it would help a lot more if the individual areas changed more as you progress through them. That had a lot to do with the feeling of progression in PSO1 imo.

[[Ayumi]]

Damn straight, why should a sequel have any resemblance to the game that succeeded enough to warrant a sequel?

PSO2 should in no way, shape, or form be similar to PSO1, lest someone cry "nostalgia!" Don't like something about this game? Don't let anyone know to see if they agree and perhaps let the people who will make the next story know what you would find fun, just disappear and do what Big Olaf said.

But really, I agree. We're pretty much just killing everything for sport and any sense of exploration is absent until you get to ruins, at which point the environment finally provokes a smidgen of thought beyond what is asked on screen in the handful of story quests.

Games should never be like the prequel?

I for one like... like...
Sonic games (they usually don't change much)
Mario games
Dynasty/Samurai/Gundam games
Ganbare Goemon games
Gears of War series
and that's just to name a few.

Now, I'm not saying I hate PSO2 as, everyone that knows me know I really like the game, but I do agree with the TC though.
But since I was a kid I was always into the "mysteries" and "exploring" in stories... let it be in books, movies, and yes video games.
The whole stody of PSO2 so far makes no true sense to me as it seems more like the Arks are the enemy and the Darkers are not as it seems like WE are the ones hunting them down and as Getto said in one part of killing them before they spread, sounds like we're the ones getting in their way.

I might be wrong, but yeah...
I do want the game/story to feel a bit more of... well... a broaden story.

People saying "I don't know the story, waiting for US release to find out" in 3...2...1...

[Chik'Tikka]

;2881150']Games should never be like the prequel?

I for one like... like...
Sonic games (they usually don't change much)
Mario games
Dynasty/Samurai/Gundam games
Ganbare Goemon games
Gears of War series
and that's just to name a few.

Now, I'm not saying I hate PSO2 as, everyone that knows me know I really like the game, but I do agree with the TC though.
But since I was a kid I was always into the "mysteries" and "exploring" in stories... let it be in books, movies, and yes video games.
The whole stody of PSO2 so far makes no true sense to me as it seems more like the Arks are the enemy and the Darkers are not as it seems like WE are the ones hunting them down and as Getto said in one part of killing them before they spread, sounds like we're the ones getting in their way.

I might be wrong, but yeah...
I do want the game/story to feel a bit more of... well... a broaden story.

People saying "I don't know the story, waiting for US release to find out" in 3...2...1...

playing gears right now+^_^+ i <3 u

[BahnKnakyu]

We neeed gameplay that does not involve killing. I loved the carnival in pso. Soccer was fun when you had enough people. Perhaps pso sports?

Your wishes might be answered:

http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-ideas-for-next-year/


Sakai wants to make the lobby more interesting. He quoted some suggestions voiced by players including that he should “bring back the soccer lobby”, or allow people to “sit in chairs” and do “those photon chair races from PSOBB.” He hasn’t revealed what exactly he wants to do but maybe we can see something new to the lobby later on.

Though I think part of the issue is players really nostalgia-ing about the old days. As you grew into the game, PSO more or less became a spam x area to hunt for y item * n times sort of deal, so I'm not sure where this sense of adventure you're looking for is.

I think the reason why we're having issues with it is that every area in PSO2 is freakin OPEN. You don't feel like you're exploring inside of a mine, or inside a cave because most of the scenery is huge. That and as someone pointed out in another thread, design-wise most of the areas simply don't stand out.

The only three areas that give me a feeling that I'm actually IN there is Forest, Tundra, and Ruins. The rest feel very... bland.

[Vashyron]

But the areas have to be huge! How else will they shove Ragne and now Gamera into every single map?

Yeah it's not really helping that the areas are all massive open space, even vertically alone.

[Sizustar]

I think for me the biggest thing I am noticing, and it may be due to splitting the areas to three planets, is that there is never really a sense of progression in terms of where the character/story is actually taking me. In PSO you were going from one area to the next, but usually in the boss arena there was a bit of a connection to the next area. It felt like there was more of a point A to point B type thing going on. PSO2 seems more scattered.

You're on one planet in a forest, go to the next planet for the caves, go to the next planet for the desert - and then go back to the first planet for what is a progression of the forest and then so on. To me I kind of miss the sense of continuity between the areas and the feeling of progression from PSO, but its not such a huge deal to me - rather just one piece of PSO that I wish would have been retained :). Otherwise I am quite enjoying the game.

Didn't you do the Matterboard quest?
Or is it language barrier?

[Kinujou]

I got the sense of adventure from day one. Even without understanding japanese it felt like from the tutorial you were on a supposedly new and safe planet, made for newbies. With the darkers arrival you got a sense of danger, even through it didn't last too long as you learned that you can fight and beat them if you try hard enough (but damn it if you let them get 3+ hits on you.)

Meeting Zeno was fun, he seemed to be the type of guy who wants to help out and be depended on, even if he had his downsides. After the tutorial the first few quests focused on hunting certin monsters, first with Za Oodans being something stronger then those normal ones you faced before, then the wolves you did in on the next mission. The feeling that you can take on the stronger mobs as you moved on helped out a lot.

The 3rd forest mission, being the one where MPA's start had a feeling that connected to the tutorial/storyline, hunting darkers. It was obvious that they were bad and whatnot but the mission in itself made it feel like the fight against them was performed by everyone, even outside of direct story missions. Of course seeing them in the other missions helped a bit as well.

I remember the first time i ran it ever, I got ambushed by a huge group of them and was dying horribly until i saw the one next to me take damage, looked to the side to see a ranger gunning it down. A force ran up to me and used resta on me and joined in the damage dealing as a hunter dived in middle of the group and started wailing with a sword. I didn't know if they were npcs or players or even how they got there. at the point i didn't even know it was a MPA and they could do that even when they wasn't part of my party. It was a great feeling to be helped out by random strangers, and i ended up tagging along killing what I could.

The last, before forest free, Nab Rappy brought upon my first failure in a mission. It was the first time i did code arrest and at that point the first time i found out I could fail a code. with that defeat i was determined to succeed in it once again. After a few tries i got used the code and havent failed since. I was proud of myself the first time I succeeded. And this is just the first four missions. After that every new mission, CO, challenge, TA, I have faced brought me new challenges, new memories, new friends, and all of that. It have brought to me what PSO have brought to me and I am quite happy with the result of this game. Anyway i think ill stop with my rambling now. -runs away with a completely red face-

tl;dr : the grand scale of adventure is out there, its just waiting for you to enjoy it, even in online mode. Relax and enjoy yourself here in this game and I'm sure you'll find yourself with memories as great as mine.

[Coatl]

Not sure about you guys, but playing ruins made me feel like I was truly playing PSO2. You know, the game that carries the name of PSO1.

[Chik'Tikka]

I'd love access to the city+^_^+ just wander around the boardwalks, smeelz flowers, sit at a cafe and eat Perori Mates+^_^+ maybe have some sort of mall with attractions and mini-games to kill the monotony of slaying mobs+^_^+

[GCoffee]

Arika pretty much nailed it. One thing I would want to add is the quests lack of a story in PSO2, something I consider one of the greatest factors that made PSO (and even PSZ) feel so immersive; it adds a lot of depth to the setting since everything you do seems meaningful.

Another thing is the mobs that almost die before spawning. I wonder if some people are even able to vaguely picture certain enemies in their head, seeing how they kill them almost instantly. This might be a long shot, but I think the enemies in PSO carried much more personality for the threat each single one represented.
Back then people used to talk about the enemies and their specific traits, but now in PSO2 all I can see are discussions about the areas themselves.

[Flame]

I'm surprised how closely the OP is mirroring my opinion of the game so far. It absolutely never feels like an adventure, it always feels like a slog. I think part of the problem is that the game is designed around 15 min play increments. The result is a shallow albeit more accessible game. Where are those lovingly crafted hour-long dungeons?

However, I do agree with you Coatl. Ruins is the first level that feels like its worthy of the original's name. Its a shame it took 7 levels to get to that feeling though.

[Shirokami]

I've just now realized what's missing from this game that PSO had... It's a sense of grand adventure. Even within the grind of PSO, that sense was there, but PSO2 feels like... a job. The ARKS organization is a cleansing crew, destroying the native population of other worlds, robbing their resources, and installing its own people, and my character then is just a tool.

Of course, this is one man's perspective and I'd love to be wrong, but I can't enjoy myself when I think of it this way and I so badly want to enjoy the game. So what do I do? How can I capture that sense of adventure?

But that's exactly what you did and what you do as a human O_O

[Ogni-XR21]

I want some kind of world tour which people can join while you are running it. Something that kind of resembles the Forest to Falz runs in PSO1.

[otaku998]

It was always some kind of adventure for me back when i still locked my room and fight with NPC like a loner. A lot of good memories like first time Vol suddenly appeared during the Catern quest and took me some 30 min to kill it and etc. Then i started to jump into society and flying through MPA then...i don't know lol, the game is still fun but everything is like a supermarket with every stores on sales 90% and every players are some housewives.

[Mike]

I want some kind of world tour which people can join while you are running it. Something that kind of resembles the Forest to Falz runs in PSO1.
You can already do that. Just put it in the title for your party and pick the next area from inside the camp ship.

[Sp-24]

I've never felt any sense of adventure in PSO. I did like the story and the atmosphere very much, sure, but it was all because of the loose ends and unanswered questions that, looking back at it now, are most likely the result of a rushed and undeveloped plot being tacked onto one of the first console action-RPGs with online capability ever for the sake of having one.

PSO2 can't have those pillars from the first episode, which were the only sign of progression that I saw there, because it's a terrible idea. In fact, we already have Matter Board if we want a chore, and it even gives progression as a reward. And while they probably could separate (or combine) story and grinding more elegantly, I can't say that it's much worse than what PSO did.

[DoubleCannon]

isn't adventuring is finding boxes of treasure and fighting mobs?

I tried this in the forest behind me, found a wolf, but never found any treasure boxes to give me any weapons. The wolf beat me. real life sucks lol

[Hanabira.Kage]

You can already do that. Just put it in the title for your party and pick the next area from inside the camp ship.


The multi-party area thing? Or are you referring to something else entirely?

Sorry, new to this game here. ._.

[Agitated_AT]

In PSO1, most people start their first time in offline mode I think that is why you feel more of adventure. Because if you suddently start online, you might join into the room that beat forest in 5 min, cave in 10 min, and all speed rushing kill everything. How would that make you feel of any adventure-like?

If you start it back in the DC day with offline mode like me, you would get a lot of feeling of progression, you explore forest more and more via quest, and then you finally reach the end to kill dragon, very good impression!

May be this game may feel more adventure like if they force you to progress story to unlock new area. But they will only get more complain from people who wanna do thing quickly.

In pso1 you could join in the middle of the run and it would still take around a half an hour to an hour to finish

In pso2, you can finish an area in 5 minutes wether solo or joining people. That's just the nature of pso2's "freedom" aproach.

The difference really is that pso1 was indeed a dungeon crawler, while pso2 just gives you "playgrounds" where you can just run around with no real sense of progression, so you are going to look for goals to give it a little more meaning, making you feel like a worker instead of just digging through the worlds as someone mentioned.

Tbh, I think this mechanic is really flawed in its core, but.... the fact that it is part of the core experience makes complaining useless now, so either you live with it or just play something else. I'm starting to lean more and more to the latter. The lack of adventure and progression in pso2 is just so jarring. I would never play a game like this if it weren't for fond memories of the franchise

[Yunfa]

Adventure?! I have an "adventure" every time I go to doodoo.

[BIG OLAF]

Adventure?! I have an "adventure" every time I go to doodoo.

That could be taken in more than one way.

[Saffran]

The only thing that kills the adventure feel to me is Franka. "Ooooh human language speaking dragonkins, neat, I must have 5 of their delicious legs and a couple of their crocs to make excellent cuisine". EXCUSE ME?

[Rawr]

Didn't you do the Matterboard quest?
Or is it language barrier?

I have been doing the matter board but my point still stands >_>.

Even though story wise it will connect (though I have no clue what the actual story is) the point I was making that was in PSO2 each individual area linked up to the next at the very end. Just like how at the end of the forest area you'd go underneath the dome into a cave like area, fight the boss in said cave-like area - and then do the caves mission. After fight De Rol Le in the caves area you're on a mines-esque raft thingy and then when you beat him you end up near an area that looks like the mines. That sort of thing helped to make the levels feel like they were connected to one another in a sensible way.

PSO2 to me feels disjointed in the level order in that it doesn't work like that. One minute I am in the forest on one planet and then dropped into caves on another and then a desert on another...and then back into an icy forest. But there is nothing actually really linking all three of those areas up so they feel totally separate and not really all that connected. If that makes sense.

Like I said, not a huge issue but that was the point I was initially trying to make as it was just a small detail that I kinda miss. I love a lot of aspects of PSO2 so this is just a small little thing for me.

[gigawuts]

Ayushi: That was mostly sarcasm you were responding to. A logical extension of what Big Olaf had said. I don't actually believe the best thing to do is keep quiet and not try to improve a game with discussions or feedback.

Rawr: I liked that in PSO1 a lot too, but these are different planets that until now (or VERY long ago, in a yet-undiscovered way) have not been connected at all. Amduscia, Lillipa, and Naberius are all very far apart, with their own separate histories. Until the ruins Naberius wasn't even known to have sentient life on it at any point in time. The robots on Lillipa are our own rogue machinery (I REALLY wish they'd retcon it so they're rogue machinery from an extinct civilization, because that's a WAY cooler concept for a desert planet). We found these planets individually with scout ships or some crap and the darkers attacked us as soon as we showed up, or just before we showed up.

Which is why the natives are all finicky about our presence. They think we're just part of the darker assault.

I don't think it's necessarily a good story, but it is a story nonetheless. I do wish they'd integrate the planets a bit with the ruins, like we'd find underground ruins in subterranean caverns on lillipa, and some of them on amduscia too, so we can get something remotely mysterious going like most of us loved in PSO1. But unfortunately, the very well done transitions and interesting design on PSO1 are not really a possibility here. They can do other well done transitions and such, just not the same ones.

[Rawr]

Rawr: I liked that in PSO1 a lot too, but these are different planets that until now (or VERY long ago, in a yet-undiscovered way) have not been connected at all. Amduscia, Lillipa, and Naberius are all very far apart, with their own separate histories.
.

Oh, yeah, that part I know haha. I mentioned it earlier in the thread I think :). But it just feels incredibly disjointed the way we planet hop all the time. I hope that future content is more '"cohesive".

[eharima]

yeah I miss the point A to point B of pso/ psu (also f1-falz hahah GG)

It seems like in PSO2 you either play in point A (MPA)
Or play in point B (boss rush)

there is no medium traversing the levels, except for those new ruins 1 party quests that i only did for the sake of unlocking free feild.

just feels the core focus is GRIND, GET RARZ. which is fine, but its how you do it i suppose.

On the plus tho, it will never take those aspects away form pso1 whenever i may choose to dip a little nostalgia eh...

[Ogni-XR21]

You can already do that. Just put it in the title for your party and pick the next area from inside the camp ship.

I tried that several times but no luck this far.

...but to be honest I gave up pretty quick when trying. It's kind of discouraging when you reach dessert and not a single soul has joined your game.

Well, let's give it another try...

Going now, ship2, block 20, party name "world tour"!

Well, EQ right now but starting right after that...

[Flame]

You can already do that. Just put it in the title for your party and pick the next area from inside the camp ship.

This is BS. You shouldn't have to make your own fun like this. And even if I did as you suggested, no one would join or wantt to do it because the game isn't designed for something like this.

[Agitated_AT]

PSO2 just pisses me off because it can/could be so much better. Only people really, permanently enjoying the game are the ones who collect rares (for whatever reason) or go for the level cap(for whatever reason) and don't get bored from farming.

I don't wanna grind for the sake of grinding, I don't wanna collect rares for the sake of collecting them. I want the game to encourage me to, which it doesn't for like 80% of the time.

The core exists of so many flaws, i just cant accept the mediocreness in some of its designs. It lacks alot of commonly understanded things of what makes a game good.

PSO2's strength comes from the battle mechanics. So much potential to build an amazing game around it. I fear that it's never going to happen.

[Miwako]

I find it easy to burn out doing the same things in the game. I have gotten very used to major free roaming areas like FFXI and Aion so having to go through a map like PSO2 still gives me that closed in feeling a bit but not like the small wondering range of PSO. It does need a bit more to continue to cue interest though. The story is great but once you seen it there is no longer a purpose for it and I am sure most people don't sit there running through the same story a million times... I do miss the old adventure of PSO and everytime I hear the old music makes me want to just pop in PSO1&2 and go old school for a while... Even though when you entered an area you knew just where every single monster was going to spawn it did still have the adventure that PSO2 lacks in time frame game play per run.... Running about the same zone for an hour just doesn't fill that old nostalgic feeling.

[freyt]

I just have to say, I'm glad this game isn't tailored to individuals, but rather entire groups of people. I'm sorry one or some of you want a sense of adventure in this game. It doesn't bother me that much, so I'm happy. And if you're saying you'd rather the game change and become something I don't want it to be, then I have to say oh well, deal with it.

People may want something constructive to give them a fun experience, but screw that. I and many others have plenty of fun without that. If you can't, then really, just go play PSO. There's nothing any of us can say to any of you to satisfy you, so if you're better satisfied by another game instead of this one, then GO play that game. If you're then not satisfied and come back to this game, then obviously this game is better, and you should stop complaining about how it's not.

[gigawuts]

This is BS. You shouldn't have to make your own fun like this. And even if I did as you suggested, no one would join or wantt to do it because the game isn't designed for something like this.

I feel like there's an opportunity for a time attack just waiting to be created here.


I just have to say, I'm glad this game isn't tailored to individuals, but rather entire groups of people. I'm sorry one or some of you want a sense of adventure in this game. It doesn't bother me that much, so I'm happy. And if you're saying you'd rather the game change and become something I don't want it to be, then I have to say oh well, deal with it.

People may want something constructive to give them a fun experience, but screw that. I and many others have plenty of fun without that. If you can't, then really, just go play PSO. There's nothing any of us can say to any of you to satisfy you, so if you're better satisfied by another game instead of this one, then GO play that game. If you're then not satisfied and come back to this game, then obviously this game is better, and you should stop complaining about how it's not.

I like how PSO was able to cater to both solo and group players, and everyone has immediately forgotten the fact that it can be done because this game doesn't do it.

If it was done before, it can be done now. Stop acting like your idea of fun excludes anyone else's idea of fun.

edit: Also, just FYI, even having solo players in the game directly benefits you. Got premium? Use a shop? More players find and buy more items, which creates a more stable economy. A stable economy is less susceptible to market manipulation, results in more items for affixing etc. It can and does benefit you to have more players around, whether they enjoy group play or not. More players also means more support and attention from Sega. So yeah. You can't even fall back on the "but it's bad for me if it means less content for me" routine.

[Agitated_AT]

I just have to say, I'm glad this game isn't tailored to individuals, but rather entire groups of people. I'm sorry one or some of you want a sense of adventure in this game. It doesn't bother me that much, so I'm happy. And if you're saying you'd rather the game change and become something I don't want it to be, then I have to say oh well, deal with it.

People may want something constructive to give them a fun experience, but screw that. I and many others have plenty of fun without that. If you can't, then really, just go play PSO. There's nothing any of us can say to any of you to satisfy you, so if you're better satisfied by another game instead of this one, then GO play that game. If you're then not satisfied and come back to this game, then obviously this game is better, and you should stop complaining about how it's not.

So you are not denying it could make the experience better then, cuz what I get from you is simply that you don't care. Correct me if i'm wrong

[blace]

The lack of adventure turns me away, but this game was built for a large range of audiences as with most F2P titles. Like many, the game is designed to take advantage of that multiplayer aspect and to bring in a story that wouldn't just be centered around the player, but the community as a whole. How practical would it be to put yourself in the position that you were needed in every major operation that was critical to the stability of the game and do the same for every player that plays? Not very. Sure, PSO had that sense of exploration all due to how it limits the player size to 4, somewhat akin to a small team of people entrusted with the fate of Pioneer 1 and 2. This time around, they decided to focus on the global aspect where you can find others in the same map, ruining the immersion the first had put in place. Not everyone is an unknown hunter that is secretly an agent for the governing body this time around, now it's all about numbers.

The game's tone might be different were it developed with singleplayer in mind, but allowing it to be accessed widely by a large range of users really makes it impractical by having everyone be that chosen hero to explore parts unknown.

[gravityvx]

Nice thread, guess I'll post my thoughts.

With PSO1, this was some brand new thing, a online "mmo" on a console. While this was one of the hugest factors making the game a huge hit for it's time, I'll leave that aside and get to the point of the matter. PSO1, in my opinion was a pretty dark and sad game if you actually followed the story to it's entirety, I mean when you first started the game you wanted to know what happened to everyone on that planet. Most of the quests (story or othrwise), the NPCs, that atmosphere, the music the map designs (specific land marks no matter what the map shapes into) everything was just very well put together. Almost all of the boss battles had an "epic" feel to them, I mean, in the ruins 3 when you saw that long ass hallway you knew what was about to go down. And of course, doing all this with friends was just icing on the cake.

Now with PSO2, while the language barrier of course factors into the story, the entire game feels like it's set up as some kinda "ecchi" anime that I can't take seriously. I don't feel like there's some huge threat even though there supposedly is, because of the games atmosphere. And with that feel, I just see myself as mindlessly slaughtering wildlife and inhabitants of each planet for no apparent reason...I mean I kinda feel like the ARKs are the bad guys here lol stealing their eggs, genocide on the dragon race etc. In PSO1 the entire planet had been effected so I had a reason to put down these scrubs. But yeah, I don't feel like I'm on some kind of grand adventure, and don't even get me started on the maps, I really wish 80% of them weren't floating corridors in the middle of nowhere. Regardless, despite the flaws the gameplay improvements far outweigh it, I definitely enjoy the gameplay more than PSO1(NOT including difficulty), just the rest is just tolerable.

[GreenArcher]

I still feel a bit of adventure since there is a lot to do in this game.

The one thing that really bothers me though is how pointless it feels playing outside of 12/12 MPA. I think that is the real issue. Many players aren't feeling the adventure because of how much more efficient MPA farming is than anything else. Some suggestions I can think off of the top of my head:

Client order sets: Do order 1, then do order 2, then do order 3.....get something fancy at the end. Like with the event NPCs, but more of them
Make quest rewards meaningful, encouraging people to finish runs
Make boss EXP meaningful, encouraging people to finish runs
Time Attacks: more of them!

We need incentives to do things other than MPA. The TA client orders were a good start.

[Ezodagrom]

I've just now realized what's missing from this game that PSO had... It's a sense of grand adventure. Even within the grind of PSO, that sense was there, but PSO2 feels like... a job. The ARKS organization is a cleansing crew, destroying the native population of other worlds, robbing their resources, and installing its own people, and my character then is just a tool.

Of course, this is one man's perspective and I'd love to be wrong, but I can't enjoy myself when I think of it this way and I so badly want to enjoy the game. So what do I do? How can I capture that sense of adventure?
I may be wrong, but as far as I know the Arks are not trying to destroy the native population of planets, if I'm not mistaken they're fighting (or trying to fight) against Darkers and natives that have been infected by Darkers. Even if a native doesn't have a fungus, it may already be in early stages of infection.


I'm surprised how closely the OP is mirroring my opinion of the game so far. It absolutely never feels like an adventure, it always feels like a slog. I think part of the problem is that the game is designed around 15 min play increments. The result is a shallow albeit more accessible game. Where are those lovingly crafted hour-long dungeons?
Lovingly crafted hour-long dungeons? Alot of the PSO areas were just square room -> corridor -> square room -> corridor. Other than some exceptions, the level design in PSO was nothing special.


I don't think it's necessarily a good story, but it is a story nonetheless. I do wish they'd integrate the planets a bit with the ruins, like we'd find underground ruins in subterranean caverns on lillipa, and some of them on amduscia too, so we can get something remotely mysterious going like most of us loved in PSO1. But unfortunately, the very well done transitions and interesting design on PSO1 are not really a possibility here. They can do other well done transitions and such, just not the same ones.
So far there's only 1 thing that connects the 3 planets, each planet has a piece of the weapon that the player is searching for in a part of the story.

While there's no elements other than the weapon pieces that connect the planets with each other, there are elements that connect each of the areas in a planet.

In Naberius, the tundra can be seen in the background of both forest and ruins, and the ruins tree/tower thing can be seen in the background of the tundra.
In Amduscia, the skyland can be seen when looking up in the 2nd block of the caves.
In Lillipa, the towers serve as entrance to the mines (as seen in the Lillipa time attack).


I tried that several times but no luck this far.

...but to be honest I gave up pretty quick when trying. It's kind of discouraging when you reach dessert and not a single soul has joined your game.

Well, let's give it another try...

Going now, ship2, block 20, party name "world tour"!

Well, EQ right now but starting right after that...
I think a free field tour is something that may work better in the english servers, when they are released. With the language barrier becoming less of an issue, I think more people are willing to play in random parties.
Another thing that may make people having an easier time creating a free field tour, it's the "being able to search for parties from different blocks" feature that is coming in the future.

[Reiketsu]

Hmm... until Ruins, I didn't get much of a sense of adventure, either, but I actually didn't care for it that much, anyways ^^;
Ruins, however, makes me feel like we're approaching a critical climax and really makes me wonder what's going to happen next...? It's quite exciting!

Story-wise, I've finally started to do the Matter Board and I have to say, I really like the story and characters ^^
Sure, nothing groundbreaking I haven't seen before, but whatever... I still love xD The cutscenes are well-made and make me wish the story-mode would be turned into an anime, lol

Then again, I'm someone who easily enjoys anything...
Let 90% of the world's population say something's utter shit, there's still a high probability I'll like it, lol

[Flame]

Nice thread, guess I'll post my thoughts.


Now with PSO2, while the language barrier of course factors into the story, the entire game feels like it's set up as some kinda "ecchi" anime that I can't take seriously. I don't feel like there's some huge threat even though there supposedly is, because of the games atmosphere. And with that feel, I just see myself as mindlessly slaughtering wildlife and inhabitants of each planet for no apparent reason...I mean I kinda feel like the ARKs are the bad guys here lol stealing their eggs, genocide on the dragon race etc. In PSO1 the entire planet had been effected so I had a reason to put down these scrubs. But yeah, I don't feel like I'm on some kind of grand adventure, and don't even get me started on the maps, I really wish 80% of them weren't floating corridors in the middle of nowhere. Regardless, despite the flaws the gameplay improvements far outweigh it, I definitely enjoy the gameplay more than PSO1(NOT including difficulty), just the rest is just tolerable.

Blame this on Sakai. He's been taking the franchise in this direction ever since PSU. What started as a understated, rich story quickly became unremarkable, ordinary anime "watashi mamoru" schlock under Sakai's watch.

PS0 avoided this with a stellar localization (mad props to that team, seriously. I haven't read such natural sounding dialogue in the japanese game in a long time) and intriguing setting (western sci-fi)

[Ezodagrom]

Blame this on Sakai. He's been taking the franchise in this direction ever since PSU. What started as a understated, rich story quickly became unremarkable, ordinary anime "watashi mamoru" schlock under Sakai's watch.

PS0 avoided this with a stellar localization (mad props to that team, seriously. I haven't read such natural sounding dialogue in the japanese game in a long time) and intriguing setting (western sci-fi)
You sound like Sonic fans, who put the blame of anything bad in the series into the current producer.

Also, how much of the story have you played, or how much of it have you understood? If you only played the early parts and didn't understand much about it due to the language barrier, you really shouldn't be complaining about the story.

Another thing, the Phantasy Star series always had an animeish style, plus the target audience is Japan, where anime is really popular.

[Chik'Tikka]

^ lolz, i just did story til i could do COs with Koffie+^_^+ EN patch guys i'm sure will port EN version story mode for us when it comes+^_^+ so ima save story for then+^_^+

[Ezodagrom]

^ lolz, i just did story til i could do COs with Koffie+^_^+ EN patch guys i'm sure will port EN version story mode for us when it comes+^_^+ so ima save story for then+^_^+
They won't, a patch for the story would be over 1GB, since the text for the story is in the same files as the audio.

[gravityvx]

Another thing, the Phantasy Star series always had an animeish style, plus the target audience is Japan, where anime is really popular.

There's a difference between childish boring cliche anime & well made anime though. PSO2 falls into the first category, but again the gameplay will always be the games saving grace.

[Chik'Tikka]

They won't, a patch for the story would be over 1GB, since the text for the story is in the same files as the audio.

i thought i remembered reading in the discussion that they might offer it as a separate file (like the large patch) if it's easy enough to work with+^_^+ besides, we're all used to 1GB+ patches by now+^_^+

[Ezodagrom]

There's a difference between childish boring cliche anime & well made anime though. PSO2 falls into the first category, but again the gameplay will always be the games saving grace.
If PSO2 is like "childish boring cliche anime", I wonder what PSU and PSPo2 were...

[Zyrusticae]

I already somewhat covered this in this thread (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202280)...


This is intentional. From the very beginning it was very clear they were going for a completely different theme with PSO2 versus the original.

The intros say it all. Compare:
PSO
- Only two colony ships, one of whose inhabitants all vanish without a trace
- Desperate exodus for the sake of survival
- Mysterious forces at work, and the Hunters must work to uncover them
- Hunters are essentially 'land-locked' - all exploration occurs on foot

PSO 2
- MANY colony ships (the fleet numbers in the dozens, if not the hundreds)
- Nomadic people, exploring for the sake of knowledge and science
- Darkers are a known entity, and the weapons of the ARKS are the only ones capable of destroying them permanently
- ARKS have full mobility, using camp ships and telepipes to move about freely across every planet

There's basically no sign of the tension and mystery that was present in PSO. It's more of a superhero fantasy, basically - the ARKS possess great power and great versatility, and are really in no danger of being wiped out or destroyed... or at least, that's how it feels. Judging by the way the story is going, a real threat is going to present itself, but the way it's been presented is very, very different from PSO.

In PSO1, you delved further and further into what seemed like an endless dungeon, until you eventually entered the Ruins, a place so alien and so isolated that it felt like another world entirely. Even though I could use telepipes to beam back up to Pioneer 2 whenever I felt like, I always felt like I was isolated from the wider world when inside there. There was a palpable sense of foreboding, like the threat of being wiped out of existence was always there.

In a sense, PSO2 is a very logical progression - the threat has passed, people have moved on, technology has advanced, so on and so forth. I appreciate it more now than I did at the beginning - it makes a lot of sense, and going for PSO-style ruins would have been incongruous with the new style. Still, I do wish they put a bit more effort into making the threat of the Darkers more palpable, as it really feels like they're constantly on the defensive now, with ARKS just wiping them out piecemeal.
To put it another way... if you want the sense of mystery and foreboding that PSO had, you will probably have to look towards another game. PSO2 is all about being super-badasses and going on sorties across worlds with complete impunity. This might change with the coming updates, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Flame]

You sound like Sonic fans, who put the blame of anything bad in the series into the current producer.


Who else would you blame for such a radical change in story telling other than the director?




Also, how much of the story have you played, or how much of it have you understood? If you only played the early parts and didn't understand much about it due to the language barrier, you really shouldn't be complaining about the story.

Another thing, the Phantasy Star series always had an animeish style, plus the target audience is Japan, where anime is really popular.

I have played and understand enough to accurately judge that it has laughably bad conversational dialogue that feels like it was ripped from any shounen manga/anime ever made.

I mean, you don't have to be an expert to realize this is mediocre(I have no idea how to embed to a specific time, but go ahead and skip to 2m57s):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krPbYak46SM&t=2m57s


Plus, I've played my share of PSU and PSP2 and I think I have a pretty good idea of what we're in for.

However, it is true that the PS series has always had anime inspired visuals/story telling. I don't have a problem with things being inherently anime styled but that doesn't mean it can't still be high quality. In fact, PS0 was made to look like an anime but was still incredibly successful when it comes to telling a charming story and selling a world. With regards to PSO2, there is still a lot of story to come but what we have so far isn't very encouraging.

[Flame]

If PSO2 is like "childish boring cliche anime", I wonder what PSU and PSPo2 were...

They were equally awful.

[Squire Grooktook]

I get the adventure feeling from the gameplay. I really dig working my way up to new worlds and new boss encounters.

As for aesthetics, yeah the art style is inferior to PSO1 by a long shot. But I barely care with a character creator this deep that lets you make whatever kind of character you want. Also some of the vistas and worlds are just gorgeous. Maybe not as good as pso1 but still really good.

As for the story, don't know. Don't care.

[Ezodagrom]

Who else would you blame for such a radical change in story telling other than the director?
He's the producer, not the director.


I mean, you don't have to be an expert to realize this is mediocre(I have no idea how to embed to a specific time, but go ahead and skip to 2m57s):

[PSO2]?????????2 MB????[HD1080p] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krPbYak46SM&t=2m57s)


Plus, I've played my share of PSU and PSP2 and I think I have a pretty good idea of what we're in for.

However, it is true that the PS series has always had anime inspired visuals/story telling. I don't have a problem with things being inherently anime styled but that doesn't mean it can't still be high quality. In fact, PS0 was made to look like an anime but was still incredibly successful when it comes to telling a charming story and selling a world. With regards to PSO2, there is still a lot of story to come but what we have so far isn't very encouraging.
Wait, even though you don't know what they're talking about, you find that scene mediocre and you're okay with PS Zero? Seriously?
(I don't really know what they're talking about either, so I'll save my judgement of that scene when I see it in the localized version)
Now, I only played through PS Zero once, and I don't really remember much from its story, but from what I remember, PS Zero is a great example of a cliche "the power of friendship wins at the end" story...

[Squire Grooktook]

a great example of a cliche "the power of friendship wins at the end" story...

Yo, I haven't played Zero and I didn't watch that cut scene, but I just wanna throw out that power of friendship/love/etc doesn't make a story bad. After all, power of friendship was basically what won the day in Lord of The Rings.

I'm fine with friendship/love themes as long as it's not some ginormous deus ex machina cop out where the protagonists summon a friendship powered death ray or some bullshit at the last minute.

[Ezodagrom]

Yo, I haven't played Zero and I didn't watch that cut scene, but I just wanna throw out that power of friendship/love/etc doesn't make a story bad. After all, power of friendship was basically what won the day in Lord of The Rings.

I'm fine with friendship/love themes as long as it's not some ginormous deus ex machina cop out where the protagonists summon a friendship powered death ray or some bullshit at the last minute.
In the case of PSZero it was more a friend sacrificing himself by staying behind so the others could go on, but in the end he's okay, or something like that.
It was long ago that I played it anyway, I don't remember much from it.

[Agitated_AT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjMykENfAYI

That is all

[Squire Grooktook]

By the way Agitated_AT, I saw your post a few pages back about how the only people enjoying the game are those who are in it for the item hunting or whatever.

I'v actually been having a lot of fun and excitement with the game lately by doing self imposed challenges. It would be nice if Sega could do something to take out the "self imposed" part later, but even if they never do, I think I'll be able to stick with the game for a looooong time based on this alone.

[Narugami]

One thing I would want to add is the quests lack of a story in PSO2,

Matterboard for the story. It's in japanese though.



In the case of PSZero it was more a friend sacrificing himself by staying behind so the others could go on, but in the end he's okay, or something like that.
It was long ago that I played it anyway, I don't remember much from it.

This guy did that too: http://www.forwardcharm.co.uk/images/movies/chickenlittle_shot2.jpg

"Just leave me some ammo, a little water, some chips if you have 'em. "


He also turned out okay. It was also long ago that I watched it anyway, don't remember much from it.

[Agitated_AT]

By the way Agitated_AT, I saw your post a few pages back about how the only people enjoying the game are those who are in it for the item hunting or whatever.

I'v actually been having a lot of fun and excitement with the game lately by doing self imposed challenges. It would be nice if Sega could do something to take out the "self imposed" part later, but even if they never do, I think I'll be able to stick with the game for a looooong time based on this alone.

Believe me when I say that everyone who does enjoy that method of playing to increse the longevity, I respect and am very happy for you.

[Link1275]

HOW LONG CAN YOU LAST? The Real Super Power of Teamwork! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjMykENfAYI)

That is all

I lasted for 14 seconds. Who made that vid? I could seriously shoot people over something that annoying(literally).

[Griffin]

HOW LONG CAN YOU LAST? The Real Super Power of Teamwork! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjMykENfAYI)

That is all

0:28

That's about all the shit I can take.

[gigawuts]

Matterboard for the story. It's in japanese though.




This guy did that too: http://www.forwardcharm.co.uk/images/movies/chickenlittle_shot2.jpg

"Just leave me some ammo, a little water, some chips if you have 'em. "


He also turned out okay. It was also long ago that I watched it anyway, don't remember much from it.

i got to the moon mansion and had a hard time on the moon mansion boss as an underleveled fonewearl so i stopped playing

then i didn't start again

I really, really should, though, because I hear great things about the game as a whole. I just have issues with physically playing handheld games, leaning forward too much etc.

(I'm never going to get tired of saying moon mansion)

[Link1275]

i got to the moon mansion and had a hard time on the moon mansion boss as an underleveled fonewearl so i stopped playing

then i didn't start again

I really, really should, though, because I hear great things about the game as a whole. I just have issues with physically playing handheld games, leaning forward too much etc.

(I'm never going to get tired of saying moon mansion)
Humilias is a pain the first few times around(like 100+). Trinity is a pushover though(Falz too).

[Chik'Tikka]

HOW LONG CAN YOU LAST? The Real Super Power of Teamwork! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjMykENfAYI)

That is all

lasted thru whole thing+^_^+ was gonna quit at 1 min in, but then it started doing this trippy color thing+^_^+ the fast-forward and upside down parts were interesting too+^_^+ may watch again and try and count how many times 'the REAL SUPER POWER if TEAMWORK!!' is mentioned, but alas, netflix calls+^_^+

[goldwing]

Are you kidding? Iv adventures daily. Ranging from the team im in to my friends list. It just depends on how you look at it. Find someone to play with sitting and chating can turn into an adventure. Just imo

[Vintasticvin]

The secret of making the game feel like an adventure is believing everything you do IS an adventure :D

[Flame]

I didn't want to make a new topic for this, and any review should obviously be taken with a grain of salt but:

I was reading IGN's Ragnarok Odyssey review and a lot of the criticism for the game is EERILY similar to what we're going through right now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/31/ragnarok-odyssey-review

Some choice quotes:

"But Ragnarok Odyssey falls woefully short with just about everything it does. For an hour or two, the game is undeniably fun. Hacking and slashing (or spell-casting or letting arrows fly) against your enemies seems at home on the PlayStation Vita. But monotony quickly sets in as Ragnarok Odyssey sets you off on the same maps over and over again, fighting the same enemies over and over again, doing the same tired fetch-and-kill quests over and over again. The game is rapidly overwhelmed by a deluge of the same old thing. It becomes dull and tired mere hours after beginning."

and, more relevant to our topic discussion:

"Of course, if there was any real motive behind your quests, things would be different. We often forgive the cyclical nature of many turn-based RPGs because their stories and characters give you a reason to stay. Even certain action-oriented RPGs – Mass Effect, for instance – are excused from what some might call average gameplay because you care about your character and the greater plot. But there’s none of that here. Bad dialogue from a handful of archetypical characters do very little to engage players. It’s all about the next quest. And when the next quest takes place on the same map you already visited a dozen times with the same enemies you’ve slayed hundreds of times, you don’t have fun. You become annoyed."

Anyway, the author goes on to compliment the combat (pretty creepy right?) and talk about how fighting mobs doesn't seem worth it. Granted there are still a number of drastic differences between the games and I'm sure a direct comparison like this will likely be scoffed at. Still, it may be a good indication of how PSO2 would fare if actually reviewed.

food for thought, if nothing else.

[Squire Grooktook]

b]sets you off on the same maps over and over again, fighting the same enemies over and over again, doing the same tired fetch-and-kill quests over and over again.[/b]

Eh, never really got this feeling with PSO2. Ever actually. Then again, I don't hunt rares or anything like that, so I rarely find myself replaying maps endlessly just because. Also the maps themselves and the enemies and bosses feel pretty varied to me.

90% of the playthroughs I'v had of mines were a result of dieing due to how unexpectedly awesome the game becomes when you roll with self imposed challenges. I'd be in Ruins by now if I hadn't committed to this play style.

*edit*

*See's the name in the url your quoting from*

IGN. No. Just no. All credibility gone.

[Florgenstein]

Maybe we'll feel more of an adventure feeling once we can read the quest details?

[Miwako]

Maybe we'll feel more of an adventure feeling once we can read the quest details?

I think thats what it is for me... Not being able to understand the most expanding part of the whole game without having to go somewhere else and read it in text... I been completing the matter boards and story quests but I really do wish I understood what was being said... plus I am alone most the time when none of my friends are on so only time I have an adventure is when they are with me to play...

[Chik'Tikka]

[SPOILER-BOX]I didn't want to make a new topic for this, and any review should obviously be taken with a grain of salt but:

I was reading IGN's Ragnarok Odyssey review and a lot of the criticism for the game is EERILY similar to what we're going through right now.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/31/ragnarok-odyssey-review

Some choice quotes:

"But Ragnarok Odyssey falls woefully short with just about everything it does. For an hour or two, the game is undeniably fun. Hacking and slashing (or spell-casting or letting arrows fly) against your enemies seems at home on the PlayStation Vita. But monotony quickly sets in as Ragnarok Odyssey sets you off on the same maps over and over again, fighting the same enemies over and over again, doing the same tired fetch-and-kill quests over and over again. The game is rapidly overwhelmed by a deluge of the same old thing. It becomes dull and tired mere hours after beginning."

and, more relevant to our topic discussion:

"Of course, if there was any real motive behind your quests, things would be different. We often forgive the cyclical nature of many turn-based RPGs because their stories and characters give you a reason to stay. Even certain action-oriented RPGs – Mass Effect, for instance – are excused from what some might call average gameplay because you care about your character and the greater plot. But there’s none of that here. Bad dialogue from a handful of archetypical characters do very little to engage players. It’s all about the next quest. And when the next quest takes place on the same map you already visited a dozen times with the same enemies you’ve slayed hundreds of times, you don’t have fun. You become annoyed."

Anyway, the author goes on to compliment the combat (pretty creepy right?) and talk about how fighting mobs doesn't seem worth it. Granted there are still a number of drastic differences between the games and I'm sure a direct comparison like this will likely be scoffed at. Still, it may be a good indication of how PSO2 would fare if actually reviewed.

food for thought, if nothing else.[/SPOILER-BOX]

solution: gradual real time increase in difficulty+^_^+ why do you think people have killed countless millions of Zombies on CoD? it's repetitive, the only just added a basic story with the 1st B-OPs (more a troll story then anything), zombies are incredibly stupid, no AI, just home in on player and melee+^_^+ but people play it because after each round, they get a little harder to kill, until they are so hard to kill you run out of all resources and they overcome you+^_^+ point is, i can do the same levels without story, so as long as there's either a reward, or it's a challenge+^_^+ (wouldn't mind seeing a mob pit where mobs spawn like a PSE burst and each spawn they have a little more ATK and a little more HP, and the reward is a little more EXP until the mobs finally drop your team and you have to go back to camp-ship and be unable to return, the Sphere Arena would be good for this+^_^+)

[Crystal_Shard]

There is, in fact a logical progression of stages... but it's only for areas within the specific planet. Forest -> Tundra -> Ruins, Desert -> Mines and Caves -> Skyland. (though personally I think Skyland should have come first, followed by a subterranean Dragonkin City) This progression is particularly evident in TA, where there's a proper entrance to the mines in the desert, a jump pad leading down into the Caves from FC, and a proper throne room like door leading to Vol. However, if they had stuck us on only Naverius from the start and forced us to trudge up the mountains to reach the ruins before we ever saw Lillipa or Amduscia, I suspect the comparisons of PSO2 being the second coming of PSU would have been even more strident.

As it is, the current setting Sega seems to be going for is of a fairly vibrant fleet, with Arks freely coming and going from planet to planet, which I think is fine. The wanton wholesale slaughter of indigenous lifeforms is more an anachronism of the nature of MMOs itself. Imagine if PSO 2 only allowed everyone a quota of lifeforms to slaughter. :3 There is always a trade off to pay for more realism and it usually comes at the expense of good gameplay mechanics. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

Perhaps it would have helped matters more if the respective boss stages had a hint of the next area to come, such as fighting Rockbear at the base of the icy mountains (Fighting Fang in the forest is fine though), Vol near a massive FC bound teleporter/elevator, Gwanardha sealing of the entrance to the Mines with tentacles or fighting him in the first few corridors of it.

Fortunately, this is something that can be improved on in future through updates. More integrated TAs, revised boss rooms, added quests - all these are quite possible and it's just a matter of whether Sega does it.

In the meantime, there's still stuff to do. You just have to make the choice and effort to look for/create it.

[freyt]

Dang there was a lot of posts since mine. Was busy playing PSO2.

But yes. My opinion doesn't necessarily invalidate anyone elses. For the same reason, anyone's opinion in particular isn't more valid than another. I like PSO2 the way it is for now. You don't. Which one of us is right? Neither, really. But PSO2 is the way I like it, so if you're saying you want it to be the way you like it, then all in all, I do say that I don't care about that particular opinion of yours. That's not to say your opinion is worthless, or that I don't care about you yourself, but if you want me to hold off on my desires to subject myself to your own, then it's not going to happen.

You should be able to solo PSO2 just fine, once you get powerful enough. That's how it was in PSO1 as well. And grouping up is even more excessive as should be expected from an online game.


However, if we were to look at this objectively, then making the game as mainstream as possible is the best way to make money.

How much of the story have any of you played?
How many of you understand Japanese?

The point of these questions aren't that one answer invalidates someones experience, but that no matter the answer, you're still getting an experience half of you are paying for. So, in a way Sega has actually generalized the game so much they passed the language barrier for quite a bit of people.


Though, honestly, maybe all they have to do to appease you is replace the intro with video of areas you're familiar with, give a few lines of text about the story, and have minimal tie ins between the different areas of the game. That's essentially all PSO1 did. And then it gave you a bunch of annoying quests about various things like helping some Fomarl lose weight.

[Flame]

You should be able to solo PSO2 just fine, once you get powerful enough. That's how it was in PSO1 as well. And grouping up is even more excessive as should be expected from an online game.



Good luck fighting very hard snow banthers alone. They're designed to have their attention divided between multiple players and as such are almost impossible to fight alone. Plus, PSO1 scaled an enemy's health based on whether you were playing single player or not. PSO2 does not, leading to some awkward health sponge boss situations.




Though, honestly, maybe all they have to do to appease you is replace the intro with video of areas you're familiar with, give a few lines of text about the story, and have minimal tie ins between the different areas of the game. That's essentially all PSO1 did. And then it gave you a bunch of annoying quests about various things like helping some Fomarl lose weight.

Man, those "annoying" quests were often the heart and soul of the game. That one quest where you help Elle track down her internet boyfriend who was on Pioneer 1? Good stuff .

[Squire Grooktook]

Good luck fighting very hard snow banthers alone. They're designed to have their attention divided between multiple players and as such are almost impossible to fight alone. Plus, PSO1 scaled an enemy's health based on whether you were playing single player or not. PSO2 does not, leading to some awkward health sponge boss situations.

I did a low/medium level kill on hard banther as Hunter solo with mediocre equipment and limited healing (like, 14 mates total or something like that, not a small amount but when the fight takes 15 minutes and every attack does more then half your health...). It took forever and it was tough as hell, but you can do it. Unless the ai has seriously changed for V.Hard, the fight should be the same.

Actually, imo snow banthers are a LOT less fun in parties. They always seem to just single out the highest level player (bonus hilarity if they are force) and chase them exclusively. End result being one player constantly running away while the rest of the party trails behind desperately trying to keep up.

[Flame]

I did a low/medium level kill on hard banther as Hunter solo with mediocre equipment and limited healing (like, 14 mates total or something like that, not a small amount but when the fight takes 15 minutes and every attack does more then half your health...). It took forever and it was tough as hell, but you can do it. Unless the ai has seriously changed for V.Hard, the fight should be the same.


Low on mates, underpowered, and a boss out of your league it sounds like? Congratulations on being very skilled or very lucky, unfortunately I haven't been able to successfully solo them as of yet. I play as a RA usually and my DPS was just not high enough considering only my rifle could compete with their attack speeds coupled with the fact that there's two of them. I'm not embarrassed by this though, they're fucking hard to solo. Because once again as I've stated, they just aren't designed for it.

[Zyrusticae]

I feel the same way about Quartz Dragon. I have to jack up my defenses with units and a deband drink just to not get one-shot by the bloody thing at VH difficulty (and even then, it can still combo me to death with the bloody laser light show). It is very rare for me to be in a party where nobody gets killed by it. It's pretty much designed for a full four-man party.

I am, of course, okay with this, because it is a multiplayer co-op RPG. Expecting to be able to solo everything is about as silly as expecting co-op multiplayer from an Elder Scrolls game - they're just not made for it.

[gigawuts]

I did the story mission where you fight quartz today.

I, of course, got hit with that bug where one charge deals damage twice. So I took two hits from one attack (while using mirage escape, might I add, which left me with a few questions as well), got knocked into the air, then he did his backflip and slammed into me for the third killing blow.

Serves me right for trying to raise up my techer against something 10 levels lower.

[freyt]

This game allows you to avoid every single attack in the game.

Compared to other games, you're overpowered. Once you memorize the patterns of all the bosses, it's just a matter of how much attention your paying to them. For one, going solo takes out all the mob trash in the fight. For another, you can take NPC's.

That's not to say it's easy. But all I said is that it can be done once you're powerful enough. And this game definitely provides that power for you, and that's all that PSO1 did for you too.

[Squire Grooktook]

Compared to other games, you're overpowered. Once you memorize the patterns of all the bosses, it's just a matter of how much attention your paying to them.

This is not entirely true. While there are patterns and tells that you eventually get used to and vastly improve your performance, there is still a very strong random element in the ai of the more difficult bosses that can really test your reflexes.

The thing is, by the time you'v come to understand how the bosses work, you've ALSO considerably upgraded your character, so it the difficulty drops a lot faster. Not to mention the game encourages you to run the same boss multiple times, thus giving you a ton more practice then most action games would.

Playing the game low level with self imposed challenges, You start to really realize just how many safety nets you've been relying on. A single random slash from the Banther or random rocket/bullet combo from Big Varder takes out 90% of your life, and you have no mates left along with not even being half way through the fight. It can get intense.

[freyt]

Which is why.... all I said is that it can be done once you're powerful enough.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah I know. I just wanted to point out it's not completely pattern based. I'v had enough of that Mega Man Zero bullshit to last me a life time ha ha.

[LordChampion]

Ooh wow, this blew up! Great discussion, guys!

[freyt]

I still believe you could defeat these monsters at level 1 by yourself, as long as you could deal 1 damage.

However, could is a very strong word. I'm not asking for anyone to push the limits of possibility.

Also, Mega Man never had Resta.

[Eternal255]

solo everything. this game was pretty adventurous to me when i started out. had no clue what was what as it was such a significant change from pso1. i soloed through every mission and CO. I loved the environment of every zone, the graphics were superb and the design was amazing.

after a while you look passed all that and realize you're just playing a grindfest/farmfest game with no purpose

[Flame]

I still believe you could defeat these monsters at level 1 by yourself, as long as you could deal 1 damage.

However, could is a very strong word. I'm not asking for anyone to push the limits of possibility.

Also, Mega Man never had Resta.

Mega man or Dark souls are not valid comparisons. Those games encourage multiple play throughs for you to better understand an opponent and reward this kind of study. PSO2's boss enemies are NOT patterned. They instead have about 3 or 4 attacks at which the AI chooses at random. It is not the same as a dedicated single player game. This was specifically designed at points for more than one person. I will say again, having two snow banthers locked on you at once is just plain ridiculous. It's just unfair. Can you do it? Probably. Should you have to? Hopefully not.

Megaman could never call in dummy npcs as a distraction either.

[BahnKnakyu]

There's a difference between childish boring cliche anime & well made anime though. PSO2 falls into the first category, but again the gameplay will always be the games saving grace.

Your previous post was well thought out until you got to the language barrier part.

The reason why you feel disconnected from the game is because you don't know what the hell is going on. It's an unfair comparison to use because a majority of the PSO2 foreign playing population has no idea what's currently happening in the game.

I had the same feeling when I was playing Musou Orochi 2 for PS2 when I got the JP version early. I just felt like I was slaughtering millions of peons with no real sense except that there's this devil dude and I think he's being resurrected and OMFG HE'S BACK etc. When I got the PSP Warriors Orochi 2 release I finally understood what was going on and I felt like I had a lot more purpose in the game.

I think despite its looks, it is unfair to be making our judgements on the game unless you specifically know full Japanese. The number of people who know that are far and few in between on this board, and I think THOSE people should chime in this thread because they're the only ones who can make a fair judgement of the game as a whole.

[Miwako]

Your previous post was well thought out until you got to the language barrier part.

The reason why you feel disconnected from the game is because you don't know what the hell is going on. It's an unfair comparison to use because a majority of the PSO2 foreign playing population has no idea what's currently happening in the game.


I think despite its looks, it is unfair to be making our judgements on the game unless you specifically know full Japanese. The number of people who know that are far and few in between on this board, and I think THOSE people should chime in this thread because they're the only ones who can make a fair judgement of the game as a whole.

Totally agree. I still play the game daily but now I just run about in hopes to find something new and using that to spark my interests. I understand where some are saying about how old PSO did give that adventure because you could start in forest and run thru 4 different areas before a run was completed... here to go to another area you have to make a whole new run. I think its that sense of time spent in one mission that made it more adventurous...

[freyt]

Mega man or Dark souls are not valid comparisons. Those games encourage multiple play throughs for you to better understand an opponent and reward this kind of study. PSO2's boss enemies are NOT patterned. They instead have about 3 or 4 attacks at which the AI chooses at random. It is not the same as a dedicated single player game. This was specifically designed at points for more than one person. I will say again, having two snow banthers locked on you at once is just plain ridiculous. It's just unfair. Can you do it? Probably. Should you have to? Hopefully not.

Megaman could never call in dummy npcs as a distraction either.

I haven't seen any attacks that didn't have a call sign to them. If you pay attention, you can look at what the boss does, then set yourself up to avoid it.

That is a pattern.

[Flame]

I haven't seen any attacks that didn't have a call sign to them. If you pay attention, you can look at what the boss does, then set yourself up to avoid it.

That is a pattern.

good luck watching a banther's "call sign" when one is in front of you and one is behind you. I agree that every attack in the game CAN possibly be avoided, but that doesn't make this a challenge worth taking. As opposed to Megaman or Darksouls where it is ultimately fun to do so.

[KusaTheFonewearl]

As far as story goes... hell, we can't be the good guys all the time right?

[freyt]

good luck watching a banther's "call sign" when one is in front of you and one is behind you. I agree that every attack in the game CAN possibly be avoided, but that doesn't make this a challenge worth taking. As opposed to Megaman or Darksouls where it is ultimately fun to do so.

Which is why you have defensive gear, healing magic, NPC's, and all sorts of different handicaps.

Which is WHY I SAID it can be done ONCE YOU'RE POWERFUL ENOUGH.


You agree it's possible. I say it's possible. You say it can be done easier with the different things available to you in the game. That's what I'm saying.

You're pretending to disagree with me but you don't realize you're not actually disagreeing with any of what I'm saying.

[Flame]

Which is why you have defensive gear, healing magic, NPC's, and all sorts of different handicaps.

Which is WHY I SAID it can be done ONCE YOU'RE POWERFUL ENOUGH.


You agree it's possible. I say it's possible. You say it can be done easier with the different things available to you in the game. That's what I'm saying.

You're pretending to disagree with me but you don't realize you're not actually disagreeing with any of what I'm saying.

I'm disagreeing that this is the same kind of solo experience that was available in PSO1. I'm arguing that certain bosses in this game are hardly solo-able and that it is unreasonable to expect someone to do so.

Yes. It's possible though.

[freyt]

The only disagreement here is our definitions of "unreasonable" and "hardly". And only by a small variation of degree.

[Link1275]

As far as story goes... hell, we can't be the good guys all the time right?
PSO Ep III actually has that theme. Hmmmmmmm......

[[Ayumi]]

PSO Ep III actually has that theme. Hmmmmmmm......

Which lead to me still saying Arks/Arkz are one in the same.

[Link1275]

;2882147']Which lead to me still saying Arks/Arkz are one in the same.
I was actually thinking this might be an alternate version of Ep III's story line so that you didn't have to use the card system to enjoy t.

[GCoffee]

There never really was good or evil in PSO except Falz, since the government was at least as suspicious in their actions as let's say Black Paper.

The Arkz, too, weren't really bad people. They were knowing about the dangers the government exposed to Pioneer II by making use of the germ to create CARD technology, so they tried to put an end to said technology altogether. Sure, they used extreme measures, but who can say it wasn't justified given that "we do what we want yo"-government of Pioneer II? Everyone that played the game knows that the Hunters' higher-up was a selfish ass. Heck, he made me go collect probes for his son.

So I don't really think Arkz and Arks can be compared, like, at all.

But this reminds me what I miss so sorely in PSOII: There are no conflicts between human organizations so far, only Arks vs Darkers. Since the Darkers have no personality traits the whole conflict seems kind of onesided. Let's hope Falz freshens things up a bit by giving the threat a face.