Making the game easier for new players to get into.

[Takatsuki]

I was having a discussion with some of my teammates a few days ago, and someone brought up the fact that it's really hard for new players to get into the game, mainly due to the reduced sale prices for vendor trash equipment making it harder for new players to get meseta, especially before they can begin doing Time Attack Client Orders (if they can do them at all - they may not have a team or enough active friends to form TACO parties).

So I thought about that, and decided that it wasn't only that - the game has a number of factors that make it difficult for new players to get going. I thought, if I had started the game now instead of during the Beta, would I find it a chore to get ahead? I think that I probably would.

So I wanted to hear what you guys think could be potential solutions to this problem - to help new players get into the game without feeling like they can't catch up, or feeling that their options are too limited. Or, maybe you don't feel that there is a problem at all, and if so, tell me why you think that.

Some of my ideas:
- Change the requirement for new classes from 30 to 15, the same level as Subclasses.
- Start the player with a few items that they'll need in the future, like perhaps 10 Grinders and 1,000 FUN to maybe get some more items like Grinders, EXP Plus Tickets and Meseta Plus Tickets.
- Make Joseph/Barbara's quests give skill discs for every quest (like Training VIII does). Which skill, and which level would differ depending on the quest.
- Add a few more early-game non-repeatable quests. Have Ohza/Lisa/Marlu ask you to take them through Free Forest first, instead of starting with Free Caves. Stuff like that.
- If the player was referred by another player, they start with 3 x EXP Plus 30% Ticket and Meseta Plus 30% Tickets and some extra Lv 1 PA/Tech discs (depending on class).
- As stated above, increase the value of vendor trash.
- Add some more early-game non-repeatable quests that grant a decent amount of meseta.

[Miraclearrow]

Great ideas! I think they're all great ideas :D

[Ce'Nedra]

Not to rain down on your parade but the game is already piss easy to begin with. Specially now certain CO's got nerfed like the Biomat quest to break a level cap got reduced to 20/20/20 while in the beginning it was 90/90/90.

This game doesn't need to be made easier then it already is IMO

[Takatsuki]

Not to rain down on your parade but the game is already piss easy to begin with. Specially now certain CO's got nerfed like the Biomat quest to break a level cap got reduced to 20/20/20 while in the beginning it was 90/90/90.

This game doesn't need to be made easier then it already is IMO

That needed to be reduced anyway. It was a totally ridiculous quest. Though I think that something like 50/50/50 would have been good enough.

But this isn't about people at the lv 30 cap. This is about people who are less than level 20, who can't afford good weapons, can't afford anything to change their appearance unless they buy AC and have very few options, especially since most players are at the level cap and therefore they have fewer people to party with.

[gigawuts]

Just fix Hans' and Lavelle's CO's to scale based on difficulty. Kill 3 rockbears in normal -> 1200 exp. Kill 3 rockbears in hard -> more. This would apply to higher difficulty CO's too, letting them be completed in normal. That's a partial problem solved right there.

[The Walrus]

If they need money why don't they just TA?

It gets you enough money each day even doing only normal and hard to afford new costumes and PA's within a couple days.

I do agree with reducing the level to get the "Advanced" classes though.

EDIT: Derp didn't read the first couple sentences. Solo TA's are coming in December at some point. They probably won't be hard to solo at all too :/

[moeri]

Not to rain down on your parade but the game is already piss easy to begin with. Specially now certain CO's got nerfed like the Biomat quest to break a level cap got reduced to 20/20/20 while in the beginning it was 90/90/90.

This game doesn't need to be made easier then it already is IMO

The COs were always easy...

My personal problem that I have had trouble with is leveling and making money

I am on ch9 and during when I play (normal US play times) no one is on... seriously all the free roams are completely empty, and I have went into city... and solod it with no one else ever joining... back near in open beta there was a decent size population of english speakers... lvl 40 was easy to get then

I have stayed up a few times during JP peak hours... and yeah if your are on during those times omg this game is easy (a weeks worth of exp within a few hours)

Generally my goal for a week is 1 level every 3 days, if I'm not playing during JP peak hours

but yeah... I think only people outside of the JP time zone (not on ch2 or 10) will have my problem... so really the game shouldn't be made easier...

"maybe" help people who are for some reason playing completely solo... because that is slow

[RedRaz0r]

There are weapons in the player shops that are completely fine for a level 20 that only costs 1050 meseta. If they can't afford that, then they need to learn how to dodge and block to quit wasting their meseta on mates. It's really easy to get in the game, you just have to play it.

[The Walrus]

moeri, do you bring NPC's with you during runs?

Having a full party boosts the exp you get by like 20%

[gigawuts]

Easy in RPG's is subjective. Or, it's not really, it's redefined as what takes the most bullshit repetition.

By that measure, PSO2 is only easy if you enjoy MPAing. If you don't then god help you.

[eharima]

admittedly, prices got nerfed and EQ no longer last 1 hour... but if i was gonna start new,
then yeah id just blast a fue hundred in AC scratch and sell for MONIEZ.
buy basic wears i need, any old shit will do, 1* with atk3 + soul works everytime in dodo, sub slot units , exp boosters and rare drop from AC and go go grind. 1mnth premium for selling and double fun point grinders.

Probably shit to find good MPA to start because alot of noob dont know whats up, but tbf you have access to alot more levels now than the first 3 areas when we started wwwww.

its shit that you cant do CO 24hr now but oh well.

if you mean playing without buying AC... yeah im out of ideas.

idk man, ive always tried to keep upto date, it feels like there is alwaysa huge gap where the majority are at 'end game' (high level, very hard, getting wears, mpa alldayerryday) and then a fue drifters inbetween start and there.
i'd imagine its shit to get good games like 12p ぐろぐろ on very hard, when your starting out.

I know they published 1 millions account lol..., but it would be nice to see a daily statistic graph showing how many people are online during 24hrs, or even what quest is most popular, because it just dosent feel that 'busy'.

I hope oneday they will merge servers and have international ship gates like pso;bb had, where servers are still hosted in JP NA UK W/E but you have the choice to hop on which ship you like.
I play at all hours jp main uk prime ect ect and you either cant get on block 9/10 VH, ruins/ mines blocks or the rest of the blocks are dead, i know they gonna implement that quest finder, but still, server ship select would be nice.
I just wonder about the number of players we pulling in...

anyway i rambled abit off topic, but it would be better for new players if we had international shipgates for timezone bros mpa finding...

but... keep up with the elitists okays!

[moeri]

moeri, do you bring NPC's with you during runs?

Having a full party boosts the exp you get by like 20%

What really? x.x

Wow wished I knew that...

I had used npcs before but due to them not being all that useful, if I forgot them (fairly often), I would just go without them

[Miraclearrow]

I don't think it's 20 percent... And NPC's are less exp than a real player. At least, as far as I'm aware, maybe I'm wrong?

[Tcrusader51]

If anything, I do support the advance classes going from 30 to 15. Going Hunter/Tech (or worst for others like fighter/tech), it can be a real pain to have to go through so many other classes for extended levels just to get the mix you want. However, that could be me just being impatient.

Overall, I think the game is pretty much easy enough.

[blace]

My play times always coincide with JP peak hours, so a full MPA isn't hard for me. I've also soloed a large portion of the game especially when the level cap increases was 90/90/90. It was slow going, but I never felt I had much trouble aside from the 25-30 gap.

Money on the other hand, isn't all that hard to earn. I get it if you want some of the really cool weapons early on, but they need to learn some restraint before splurging on equipment only to throw it away 3 levels later.

Coming from a guy that soloed with three different characters on separate accounts, it's really gotten easier than what it was back in August.

[moeri]

My play times always coincide with JP peak hours, so a full MPA isn't hard for me. I've also soloed a large portion of the game especially when the level cap increases was 90/90/90. It was slow going, but I never felt I had much trouble aside from the 25-30 gap.

Money on the other hand, isn't all that hard to earn. I get it if you want some of the really cool weapons early on, but they need to learn some restraint before splurging on equipment only to throw it away 3 levels later.

Coming from a guy that soloed with three different characters on separate accounts, it's really gotten easier than what it was back in August.

If you really have solod three characters... I will just say I am aww struck

your ability to maintain your sanity, while going through three characters is impressive... where you got the amount of time to perform such a feat is also impressive

Did you really solo all three characters? Or did you participate in MPAs and consider that soloing? The First and last part of your post have got me a bit confused here, as I would jump on any MPA if it was available. Seriously seems like I get nothing accomplished no matter how many hours I put into this game anymore. Which is usually ~ 5 hours on every weekdays and 8-10 on the wekends.


Personally I prefered August for the sheer greater quantity of players... and easy of multi parties

[blace]

I participate in MPA's, otherwise everything else I've done is on my own time such as having to hunt three Vol Dragons for the next class, gathering parts for CO's etc. I also consider NPC's to be near useless, but that's just me.

How I kept my sanity, well I don't always play PSO2 or not do anything.

[BahnKnakyu]

I think there was a poster or two that was missing this part of the OP's point:


So I thought about that, and decided that it wasn't only that - the game has a number of factors that make it difficult for new players to get going. I thought, if I had started the game now instead of during the Beta, would I find it a chore to get ahead? I think that I probably would.

It definitely would be a chore to get meseta - however I heard there are still a few okay cash cows if you're willing to spend a small amount of real life monies to purchase the shop ability - selling grinders during JP and Western peak game times I heard is still an okay source of income.

Thanks to FUN scratch, the average new player can even open up their shop for free provided they are patient and have a little bit of luck. I played since the start of the first Beta, but I didn't sell any trash equipment or spammed MPAs/emishes for vendor equipment, so I'm actually in the same boat as these other players as I have generally very little money.

The thing I noticed however is that you actually do get okay amounts of money if you just keep playing since e-trials pop up randomly here and there, and if an emergency mission starts, those are a very good source of e-trials.

I don't even play that much a day - maybe 1 - 3 hours a day at max, sometimes I don't even play, if that tells you anything. I'm not able to get high end equipment, but the game does let you get away with "getting by" with average gear.

[Syklo]

I was having a discussion with some of my teammates a few days ago, and someone brought up the fact that it's really hard for new players to get into the game, mainly due to the reduced sale prices for vendor trash equipment making it harder for new players to get meseta, especially before they can begin doing Time Attack Client Orders (if they can do them at all - they may not have a team or enough active friends to form TACO parties).

Really?

I'm not sure when new players started to find "starting out" difficult, but I sure didn't, and I started late september.
But let me ask you this: What is it exactly that makes the beginning "hard"?
Is it:

the fact that you start out with really bad equipment?
lack of friends (if you weren't referred)?
lack of variety at the beginning? (i.e. no access to all the "cool skills")
lacking knowledge of the game?

Unless it isn't one of these listed, isn't that how the beginning should be like? If the game offers too much at the start then it won't last long. Not to mention, difficulty adds both to enjoyment and to frustration.
For example, when I was first introduced to the Touhou Danmaku series, I was frustrated by the near-impossibility of it (when I first played), plus I didn't understand how boss battles worked, but did that make me stop playing the game? No, in fact quite the opposite: I wanted to KEEP playing it, because despite how hard it was, the gameplay made it really enjoyable, and a harder game means longer game-time for me.

I reckon the best way to "get into the game" is dedication, followed by something to go for: a goal. All it takes is a quick search on the internet to find all the cool stuff you might get if you spend a few extra hours playing the game.

TL;DR - The difficulty of the beginning, no matter how easy or hard, is not what matters; it's whether the player actually WANTS to play the game for what it is.

[Coatl]

Really?

I'm not sure when new players started to find "starting out" difficult, but I sure didn't, and I started late september.
But let me ask you this: What is it exactly that makes the beginning "hard"?
Is it:

the fact that you start out with really bad equipment?
lack of friends (if you weren't referred)?
lack of variety at the beginning? (i.e. no access to all the "cool skills")
lacking knowledge of the game?

Unless it isn't one of these listed, isn't that how the beginning should be like? If the game offers too much at the start then it won't last long. Not to mention, difficulty adds both to enjoyment and to frustration.
For example, when I was first introduced to the Touhou Danmaku series, I was frustrated by the near-impossibility of it (when I first played), plus I didn't understand how boss battles worked, but did that make me stop playing the game? No, in fact quite the opposite: I wanted to KEEP playing it, because despite how hard it was, the gameplay made it really enjoyable, and a harder game means longer game-time for me.

I reckon the best way to "get into the game" is dedication, followed by something to go for: a goal. All it takes is a quick search on the internet to find all the cool stuff you might get if you spend a few extra hours playing the game.

TL;DR - The difficulty of the beginning, no matter how easy or hard, is not what matters; it's whether the player actually WANTS to play the game for what it is.

This.
Seriously, new players can't get into pso2 because they don't have 200k to buy a new costume from the get-go?
To think this is a problem is asinine.

New players shouldn't have access to good gear at lv1.
I honestly think you shouldn't even be able to use playershop until lv10 . What's the fun in buying a rare for 1k instead of finding your first rare in pso2?

[blace]

The only problem I see at the beginning is not being able to afford mates for the first 3 levels.

[Rien]

- Change the requirement for new classes from 30 to 15, the same level as Subclasses.
- Start the player with a few items that they'll need in the future, like perhaps 10 Grinders and 1,000 FUN to maybe get some more items like Grinders, EXP Plus Tickets and Meseta Plus Tickets.
- Make Joseph/Barbara's quests give skill discs for every quest (like Training VIII does). Which skill, and which level would differ depending on the quest.
- Add a few more early-game non-repeatable quests. Have Ohza/Lisa/Marlu ask you to take them through Free Forest first, instead of starting with Free Caves. Stuff like that.
- If the player was referred by another player, they start with 3 x EXP Plus 30% Ticket and Meseta Plus 30% Tickets and some extra Lv 1 PA/Tech discs (depending on class).
- As stated above, increase the value of vendor trash.
- Add some more early-game non-repeatable quests that grant a decent amount of meseta.

1. Subclass requirement is level 20. The Fi/Gu/Te have quite considerable power, so I think you really should earn it by going through the 20?25? to 30 level gap.
2. 10 Grinders do nothing. Does EXP and Meseta plus tickets stack with client order hand-ins, though?
3. Joseph/Barbara's quests only give discs for the shop-buyable PAs (which, for most weapons, are pretty bad compared to other PAs available for that weapon. Not counting techs)
4. More non-repeatable client orders by the three sound good, but I'd really prefer if they make the current tundra/mines/skyland client orders have normal versions (it feels awkward when a new player unlocks them via normal difficulty quests only to find out it says hard for nearly all the order requirements)
5. Friend referring shouldn't be that overpowered...
6. Value of vendor trash fell to change the MyShop economy to begin with. If we raised that, the value of everything else (yes, even the high end items) will rise...
7. Delivery Orders should be this. Unfortunately they don't quite offer enough for what they give sometimes...


And for an idea of my own it would really be nice if they buffed Hunters because, as-is, you have to be extremely prepared and have done all your build planning and number crunching just to be a DECENT HUNTER. Because any other class can build randomly by maxing out a few early skills and still throw a couple thousand damage with their signature abilities (RaFoie spam, Weak Bullet + Rifle PA [usually Sneak Shooter, but a newbie with Diffuse Shell can do this too] etc)

[Coatl]

And for an idea of my own it would really be nice if they buffed Hunters because, as-is, you have to be extremely prepared and have done all your build planning and number crunching just to be a DECENT HUNTER. Because any other class can build randomly by maxing out a few early skills and still throw a couple thousand damage with their signature abilities (RaFoie spam, Weak Bullet + Rifle PA [usually Sneak Shooter, but a newbie with Diffuse Shell can do this too] etc)

Uhm.
Force is useless until lv15.

[Syklo]

4. More non-repeatable client orders by the three sound good, but I'd really prefer if they make the current tundra/mines/skyland client orders have normal versions (it feels awkward when a new player unlocks them via normal difficulty quests only to find out it says hard for nearly all the order requirements)
7. Delivery Orders should be this. Unfortunately they don't quite offer enough for what they give sometimes...


And for an idea of my own it would really be nice if they buffed Hunters because, as-is, you have to be extremely prepared and have done all your build planning and number crunching just to be a DECENT HUNTER.

Totally agree with the tundra&beyond maps having CO's for "normal" mode. not sure what you mean by #7..

I do somewhat agree with that Hunter statement, but I believe hunters need to be fairly skilled to begin with; not the easiest class to play (then again that statement there is biased on personal preference, oh well).

But if hunters were buffed by adding some kind of haste skill in the tree (self or party buff, either will do), that would be really nice in my opinion: Hunters are fairly slow as-is.