How does damage change that drastically?

[Darki]

Hay thar! I've been playing for a while as a HU/FO, recently maxed HU so I went the opposite way to level FO too... And there has been something bugging me from many runs and MPAs that I've done these weeks.

I don't really intend to be a S/T-ATK powerhouse that makes super huge NUMB4RZ, but lately I've been noticing that my damage has been really low compared to what I've been seeing in pretty much anybody that I party with, specially in the techs department. When I was a HU/FO I blamed it to that fact, as the only tech weapons I used were ungrinded unaffixed Pumpkinrod and Duel Gaze, and my tech damage was laughable at most. Also, my mag is 50% melee 50% tech to deal with my hybrid nature. But when I switched to FO/HU I noticed that this issue didin't get too improved. At first, my setup was a Stella Twinkle (+5, tech II + Ragne Soul, so a bit more than 400 TATK) with a not too DPS focused skill build (went for Flame S charge and bolt PP save, plus Tech Charge Advance 1 maxed). I'm also a sub-Hunter, so I don't have anything from here to boost damage other that the low TATK bonus that Hunter might have had, unlike FO/FIs or FO/TEs around.

As I said, I'm not really too obsessed with DPS. I don't really care about not making too awesome damage, but it really amazed me that my damage was that absurdly low compared to what pretty much any other FO or TE out there would do, specially when right before subclasses I didn't feel being that weak at all. To see if this would be improved, I switched to one of my old skilltrees that was full flame side (both Tech Charge Avance skills and Flame Mastery maxed). The damage didn't really change much, so I simply went back to my previous tree that I'm more comfortable with.

So, my intention is not really to baww for my low damage, but just to make sure that I gotta accept that my damage has to be that crap with my setup and live happily with it or in the other hand keep worrying because I should be able to improve it. With the setup I mentioned I roughtly reached around 1000 TATK without buffs (around 1200 with shifta + drink), and now I know that's pretty lame... For when I gain a couple more levels and can equip some more stuff, I was planning on getting a Milky Twinkle (+8 for now, with tech 3 and Ragne Soul), and a Snow Banther set with the same setup or similar (with similar I mean in terms of TATK). That should pump the TATK at least by over 500 points (around 300 points difference between my current rod and the new one, plus 225 for the units, affixes included). Count there some extra points gotten from levelling up and I should get myself in the 1700~1800 TATK points, which is not as good as I've heard from other people... And if I feel lucky enough, put that rod to +10 and get almost another 100 points.

But now my question is: would this extra juice be really noticeable? Somehow I don't see myself improving that much, even with that increase. I don't really like other weapons and I don't wanna complicate my life too much yet as I'm not that wealthy, so I would understand that somebody does more damage because they use a lambda Garland AND is a sub-TE, I'm not asing for that. So what's your opinion on this?

[Zyrusticae]

1700-1800 T-Atk is highly respectable. I'm at roughly the same range and I'm more than happy with my damage (but then again, I'm Fo/Te).

But I'm not sure how you'd get 225 T-Atk from units...?

[Darki]

1700-1800 T-Atk is highly respectable. I'm at roughly the same range and I'm more than happy with my damage (but then again, I'm Fo/Te).

But I'm not sure how you'd get 225 T-Atk from units...?

Fang Banther set gives 45 points on all attack stats when you don't use those horrendous chopped-head-mechguns, if I'm not (and Arika's thread isn't) mistaken, and Tech III + Ragne Soul (60) x3 would make 180... so 225 if my maths are correct? <_<

Sorry, I'm an arts student. Forgive me if I messed that simple shit.

[Heat Haze]

For the current 10* units and OP's set up, I believe 225 T-Atk would be achieved by:
Ragne Soul + Tech III x3 = 180

Then the set bonus, +45 to all attack winding up with 225 T-Atk.
My T-Atk is at 1400-1500 being a Marl and using a Garland still, but I'm still satisfied with my current damage output because of the modifiers FO/TE brings.

Also..

Count there some extra points gotten from levelling up and I should get myself in the 1700~1800 TATK points, which is not as good as I've heard from other people... And if I feel lucky enough, put that rod to +10 and get almost another 100 points.
1700-1800 is very respectable and about the highest you could feasibly achieve at this point. The people you've heard from must have given you numbers with Tree, Drink, and Shifta buffs active.

[Darki]

I suppose the modifiers are the bread and butter here.

I gotta admit that I really prefer using a more versatile build than going full DPS on a single element, in fact I was even thinking about starting my ice side because I REALLY like Sabarta and Photon Flare + PF Advance even with the crap cooldown, but hey, there you got Weak Bullet too). In any case I also have my full Tech Charge Advance tree, so is not like I can't switch to that one when shit just got serious...

But would stuff like Element Weak Hit really make that much of a difference?

[Heat Haze]

I suppose the modifiers are the bread and butter here.

I gotta admit that I really prefer using a more versatile build than going full DPS on a single elemnt, in fact I was even thinking about starting my ice side because I REALLY like Sabarta and Photon Flare + PF Advance. In any case I also have my full Tech Charge Advance tree, so is not like I can't switch to that one when shit just got serious...

But would stuff like Element Weak Hit really make that much of a difference?

How does your current skill tree look?

I personally like Element Weak Hit, it's a 20% modifier at level 10; equivalent to capping a mastery but is beneficial to all attributes.

With my Fire Tree, it's a 180% modified Rafoie/Safoie on Ragne which is pretty satisfying.

[Nerineri]

Maybe because of your sub as a hunter doesn't have elemental weak hit like techter? That's probably why your damage isn't as high as other FO/TE ?

[Darki]

How does your current skill tree look?

I personally like Element Weak Hit, it's a 20% modifier at level 10; equivalent to capping a mastery but is beneficial to all attributes.

With my Fire Tree, it's a 180% modified Rafoie/Safoie on Ragne which is pretty satisfying.

My usual skilltree is Flame/Bolt Mastery 5, Flame Tech S Charge and Bolt PP Save 10, Tech Charge Advance 1 10 and PP Charge Revival 1 (and T-ATK Up 1 at 3 and Just Reversal) at FO level 40. With the remaining 15 points I was planning on going now for Photon Flare 5 with its requirements next.

My other skilltree, which is more DPS oriented is basically all fire side maxed except Burn Boost, and the remaining points I was going to put them probably in Flame Mastery 2 and T-Atk Up 1, in that order.

There's one detail that I didn't really know so I decided to just assume it didn't do it, but in case I'm mistaken that would push the numbers a bit higher... Do Shifta (and drink) increase the stats based soley on base stats amount, does it also count there mag, skills and subclass as weapon requirements do, or does it count the whole amount including weapons, units, affixes, etc?


Maybe because of your sub as a hunter doesn't have elemental weak hit like techter? That's probably why your damage isn't as high as other FO/TE ?

Well as I stated in my first post, I know that my current low damage is simply because my gear sucks. I guess that not having that skill should lower my damage compared to someone that has it, but well, that's the point on being hybrid, isn't it? xD Versatility over raw power. I'll gladly trade that skill for swords and Wired lances and all the useful defensive HU skills.

My question is: How bad exactly would my damage be, then, compared to a FO/TE? What should I expect? I don't intend to get obsessed with DPS, I just wanna know where to expect my top so I don't get obsesed with numbers that I shouldn't be able to reach. I know my cmbination is not that popular.

[Zyrusticae]

By the way, good luck getting Tech III + Soul on everything.

I still haven't managed to do it.

Actually, I don't even try, because fuck the RNG. FUCK IT TO HELL.

*ahem*



There's one detail that I didn't really know so I decided to just assume it didn't do it, but in case I'm mistaken that would push the numbers a bit higher... Do Shifta (and drink) increase the stats based soley on base stats amount, does it also count there mag, skills and subclass as weapon requirements do, or does it count the whole amount including weapons, units, affixes, etc?
It counts mag + skills + base stats (including subclass). That's it. In other words, only the things that add to your T-Atk score that's in parenthesis when you look at your weapon's T-Atk req.

[Darki]

By the way, good luck getting Tech III + Soul on everything.

I still haven't managed to do it.

Actually, I don't even try, because fuck the RNG. FUCK IT TO HELL.

*ahem*

Interesting that you mention it because I already got that on the rod, and got a similar setup (Power III + soul) on both my melee weapons. And I didn't really do anything special for it, in fact I was pretty blunt: just bought tons of weapons with Tech/power III and the souls I needed, added first the stat modifier (using a single weapon as fodder so I had more attemps in case of failure) then adding the soul as a new slot. Surely it failed a lot of times, but weapons with those affixes aren't THAT expensive, even I was able to afford them in enough quantities.

Probably units wil be a different story. Those are far more expensive... But that's what TACOs are for, lol.


It counts mag + skills + base stats. That's it. In other words, only the things that add to your T-Atk score that's in parenthesis when you look at your weapon's T-Atk req.

Ok then my calculation stands as I first though it.

[Link1275]

Interesting that you mention it because I already got that on the rod, and got a similar setup (Power III + soul) on both my melee weapons. And I didn't really do anything special for it, in fact I was pretty blunt: just bought tons of weapons with Tech/power III and the souls I needed, added first the stat modifier (using a single weapon as fodder so I had more attemps in case of failure) then adding the soul as a new slot. Surely it failed a lot of times, but weapons with those affixes aren't THAT expensive, even I was able to afford them in enough quantities.

Probably units wil be a different story. Those are far more expensive... But that's what TACOs are for, lol.



Ok then my calculation stands as I first though it.
To increase your damage as a force, take EVERYTHING that gives you ANY T-ATK boost. Sure the % multipliers seem better at higher levels, but they don't work as well if you don't have much base T-ATK to get a % off of.

[Acel]

Dont know why you are doing "low" damage if you have at least 1 point in all element mastery, 10 in Tech charge advance 1 &/or 2, above lv 10 tech disks, mag with at least 50 tech stat, 7-10 star weapon with soul and lv III tech...

Maybe you have REALLY LOW Ability stat

OR

You were looking at the WRONG guys the whole time.

The HIGHEST Force damage dealers ARE NOT FO/TE but FO/FI with Brave/Wise stance, and BraveUp/WiseUp maxed. No other Fo/?? can compete with the kind of numbers they throw out.

You want DRASTIC NUMBERS go Fo/Fi. Many people just didnt really want you to know.

[Darki]

Dont know why you are doing "low" damage if you have at least 1 point in all element mastery, 10 in Tech charge advance 1 &/or 2, above lv 10 tech disks, mag with at least 50 tech stat, 7-10 star weapon with soul and lv III tech...

Maybe you have REALLY LOW Ability stat

I didn't touch my ABL at all, so that might be a point. But considering that I wish to play as FO/HU with a certain degree of versatility, I decided simply to drop that as I had to take care of stats for two classes.


OR

You were looking at the WRONG guys the whole time.

The HIGHEST Force damage dealers ARE NOT FO/TE but FO/FI with Brave/Wise stance, and BraveUp/WiseUp maxed. No other Fo/?? can compete with the kind of numbers they throw out.

You want DRASTIC NUMBERS go Fo/Fi. Many people just didnt really want you to know.

Hmm that might be. I don't really want drastic numbers, I'm pretty happy with my FO/HU.

[Dammy]

Dont know why you are doing "low" damage if you have at least 1 point in all element mastery, 10 in Tech charge advance 1 &/or 2, above lv 10 tech disks, mag with at least 50 tech stat, 7-10 star weapon with soul and lv III tech...

Maybe you have REALLY LOW Ability stat

OR

You were looking at the WRONG guys the whole time.

The HIGHEST Force damage dealers ARE NOT FO/TE but FO/FI with Brave/Wise stance, and BraveUp/WiseUp maxed. No other Fo/?? can compete with the kind of numbers they throw out.

You want DRASTIC NUMBERS go Fo/Fi. Many people just didnt really want you to know.

this

as fully buffed fo/te i have like ~2200 t atk, but those who sub FI outdamage me easily, but i dont like this idea, just not my playstyle

[Gravagar]

I have a 50 FO / 43 HU (currently), and it's what I play the most, so let me share some of my notes.

I'm more geared on the side of techs. I have a pure T-ATK mag (with one point of DEX I can't get rid of because I screwed up >< ), which currently has 128 T-ATK. Very slow growth at that point sadly. All my weapons and units only have Ragne Soul, no Tech 3. I'm not geared for S-ATK at all currently because I'm hunting a Madam Umbrella and that is something I can worry about when I get it. DEX is not a problem for me. Investment in DEX is a lack of investment in stats that you should be worry about and, to me, is a Very Bad Thing. I have 1365 T-ATK without any buffs, just base+equips. Lambda Salvador +8 is my weapon and I don't have a unit set bonus. I am satisfied with my tech damage, but my melee damage is a little on the sad side when I go to level HU. (I could fix that with a new mag and set of units probably)

/FI still has tradeoffs. Personally, I would use /TE for MPAs with several people, because it doesn't matter whether you hit 1600 or 2200, that Spardan is still going down in two Rafoies no matter what, so whoever gets their two in with less time recharging is the REAL best damage dealer. Plus, how are you gonna keep track of what direction it's facing? Bosses have enough HP to justify that extra damage, /FI will kill in less techs in that department for sure.

Before investing SP in T-ATK Up, consider this: We're 50 now. We're not going to be 50 forever. If it's a 50:500 ratio between SP T-ATK:Base T-ATK currently, and you think it's worth it, consider how you can't easily get that SP back if you think it's not worth it for 50:750. I'm not trying to tell you "It's a bad idea, don't do it," 'cause maybe 50:750 does work for you even though it doesn't for me. Just think very carefully.

As for my Hunter tree, I abused the fact that Guard Stance doesn't touch T-ATK, so I have a very high S-DEF build. I probably have higher S-DEF than FIs and HUs, if only because 99% of the time they use Fury Stance. When I'm FO main, all my HU SP investment is in defense and Iron Will. I have a second tree for S-ATK investment. IMO, FO/HU or TE/HU with that sort of HU build has the best balance between offense and defense, but I'm also biased and think that S-DEF is the best DEF. (Varda kinda shoots me to death a lot, but I can live with that. It's one boss.)

Do you use Zondeel a lot when you're huntering? My usual style is to round everything up with Zondeel, then use Safoie to kill everything. The range is short, but the damage is incredible, and they can't run if they're trapped. If I'm leveling HU, just use Zondeel and do whatever melee to kill everything. I think Zondeel's a really good tech for a FO/HU to use a lot. I think it's good enough to justify an investment in Bolt PP Save (but not the damage booster).

[Darki]

I have a 50 FO / 43 HU (currently), and it's what I play the most, so let me share some of my notes.

Thanks for your imput and nice to see a fellow FO/HU. =)


I'm more geared on the side of techs. I have a pure T-ATK mag (with one point of DEX I can't get rid of because I screwed up >< ), which currently has 128 T-ATK. Very slow growth at that point sadly. All my weapons and units only have Ragne Soul, no Tech 3. I'm not geared for S-ATK at all currently because I'm hunting a Madam Umbrella and that is something I can worry about when I get it. DEX is not a problem for me. Investment in DEX is a lack of investment in stats that you should be worry about and, to me, is a Very Bad Thing. I have 1365 T-ATK without any buffs, just base+equips. Lambda Salvador +8 is my weapon and I don't have a unit set bonus. I am satisfied with my tech damage, but my melee damage is a little on the sad side when I go to level HU. (I could fix that with a new mag and set of units probably)

Hmmm. I suppose then my damage should go a bit higher considering that I'd get a good deal more of TATK than you, but I'd advice you to try those affixes. is not that difficult to put 2 even brute-forcing them, unless you're extremely unluky. I gotta say that Doo Doo was kind to me there, and I was able to add Vol + Power III on my Lambda Alystein and Ragne + Tech III on my Milky Twinkle without failures (it took me a bit more to put vol + Power III on the L. Hyperion, though).

About the melee damage... I don't really know, but I feel that the difference is not THAT bad. Of course I've started with a very good weapon, a L. Alystine and L. Hyperion +8 with those affixes so is not the same case as with the tech damage, but still, I feel that melee has more to do than damage. I mean, highest damage I've been doing with my techs has been around 6k when "the stars align" (WB on a weakspot and buffs) using Rafoie, while with my sword I've been doing Over Ends of at least 15k only with the last hit (count in there the other 4 hits and you've got yourself at least 20k damage). I wouldn't mind lowering one in favour of the other, to be honest.

And as Cornelia would say, I have no complaints with roflstomping things with my WL.


/FI still has tradeoffs. Personally, I would use /TE for MPAs with several people, because it doesn't matter whether you hit 1600 or 2200, that Spardan is still going down in two Rafoies no matter what, so whoever gets their two in with less time recharging is the REAL best damage dealer. Plus, how are you gonna keep track of what direction it's facing? Bosses have enough HP to justify that extra damage, /FI will kill in less techs in that department for sure.

My problem with FI is that I really dislike the weapon selection. The only weapon that I marginally like are daggers, but for me playing a class just for one weapon feels like a great waste of effort. If I had to choose, I'd also go with TE for tight moments, and that's what I plan to do when I have my first two classes capped.


Before investing SP in T-ATK Up, consider this: We're 50 now. We're not going to be 50 forever. If it's a 50:500 ratio between SP T-ATK:Base T-ATK currently, and you think it's worth it, consider how you can't easily get that SP back if you think it's not worth it for 50:750. I'm not trying to tell you "It's a bad idea, don't do it," 'cause maybe 50:750 does work for you even though it doesn't for me. Just think very carefully.

I never invested any point more than for skill requirements on stat increasing skills because I see them a waste of points. Sure if you're min-maxing they're good, but for me getting Bolt PP save for example is much more interesting than just getting 30 TATK points more.

The only exception here is in my "DPS flame" skilltree, where I kinda ran out of stuff where to put things. On the first days when we had only 30 skillpoints I "mistakenly" maxed flame mastery and put 5 points on TATK up 1, which of course now nobosy would consider it as wasted, but this was the main reason for me to get my second skilltree. Now I only have Flame Mastery 2, Burn Boost (which I won't even touch, probably) and TATK UP to put points in unless I were to put them on other elements... and for that I got my other skilltree.


As for my Hunter tree, I abused the fact that Guard Stance doesn't touch T-ATK, so I have a very high S-DEF build. I probably have higher S-DEF than FIs and HUs, if only because 99% of the time they use Fury Stance. When I'm FO main, all my HU SP investment is in defense and Iron Will. I have a second tree for S-ATK investment. IMO, FO/HU or TE/HU with that sort of HU build has the best balance between offense and defense, but I'm also biased and think that S-DEF is the best DEF. (Varda kinda shoots me to death a lot, but I can live with that. It's one boss.)

My HU build, I made it to be a bit more balanced because I had in mind using it with FO class, too, so I also maxed Guard Stance (and Guard Stance Up, that I have at 5). As HU, it depends on the situation for when I use them but now that I'm still not able to use my class-free HU weapons I'm with Guard Stance all the time up, and it really feels good. It should be really useful too, paired with Photon Flare when I get it (yes, I'm that crazy).


Do you use Zondeel a lot when you're huntering? My usual style is to round everything up with Zondeel, then use Safoie to kill everything. The range is short, but the damage is incredible, and they can't run if they're trapped. If I'm leveling HU, just use Zondeel and do whatever melee to kill everything. I think Zondeel's a really good tech for a FO/HU to use a lot. I think it's good enough to justify an investment in Bolt PP Save (but not the damage booster).

I like to use most techs and I do use Zondeel pretty often when the situation requires it. =)

[Gravagar]

Hmmm. I suppose then my damage should go a bit higher considering that I'd get a good deal more of TATK than you, but I'd advice you to try those affixes. is not that difficult to put 2 even brute-forcing them, unless you're extremely unluky. I gotta say that Doo Doo was kind to me there, and I was able to add Vol + Power III on my Lambda Alystein and Ragne + Tech III on my Milky Twinkle without failures (it took me a bit more to put vol + Power III on the L. Hyperion, though).

Hm, just tried putting it on my weapon and it actually worked first time. Pleasant surprise! I'll be doing more of that soon.
Have you considered hunting down one of those Madam Umbrellas? Check the stats if you aren't familiar... Looking at it, all I see is FO/HU or HU/FO (And HU with either sub due to high T-ATK requirement), if you're on my ship then you're welcome to add me and join my hunts for it if that interests you. My player ID and ship's in my sig.



About the melee damage... I don't really know, but I feel that the difference is not THAT bad. Of course I've started with a very good weapon, a L. Alystine and L. Hyperion +8 with those affixes so is not the same case as with the tech damage, but still, I feel that melee has more to do than damage. I mean, highest damage I've been doing with my techs has been around 6k when "the stars align" (WB on a weakspot and buffs) using Rafoie, while with my sword I've been doing Over Ends of at least 15k only with the last hit (count in there the other 4 hits and you've got yourself at least 20k damage). I wouldn't mind lowering one in favour of the other, to be honest.

And as Cornelia would say, I have no complaints with roflstomping things with my WL.

I suggest trying out Safoie. Your results might vary since you have more invested in S-ATK, but for me, I deal around 14k per cast (Lv10 disc) when the stars align. Over End is not the fastest PA in the world, so I think I can fit at least 2 Safoies in the time it takes you to land that final hit. The ranges are similar too. Plus its effect looks sort of like a fire slash in front of you, which feels kind of like the melee/caster thing I want to be doing, so that has some personal style value to me too.



My problem with FI is that I really dislike the weapon selection. The only weapon that I marginally like are daggers, but for me playing a class just for one weapon feels like a great waste of effort. If I had to choose, I'd also go with TE for tight moments, and that's what I plan to do when I have my first two classes capped.

I was once considering going FO/FI strictly for techs + those stances. I'm leveling TE because the game gave me a Magical Wand (drop from the wrong stupid oodan you accursed RNG) and darn it I will use my only 10* weapon even if it's the worst looking thing. Plus, I can't deny that /TE's PP regen would help me out more than Guard Stance for most MPA stuff. I would use /HU over /FI for bosses even though that's where they both do well, I'd rather deal more damage by spending less time dead/healing than by having bigger numbers.



The only exception here is in my "DPS flame" skilltree, where I kinda ran out of stuff where to put things. On the first days when we had only 30 skillpoints I "mistakenly" maxed flame mastery and put 5 points on TATK up 1, which of course now nobosy would consider it as wasted, but this was the main reason for me to get my second skilltree. Now I only have Flame Mastery 2, Burn Boost (which I won't even touch, probably) and TATK UP to put points in unless I were to put them on other elements... and for that I got my other skilltree.

It makes me a little upset when they mess around with skill trees and don't give us any sort of resets... I would have built my first FO and HU trees different if I had known about what things they were going to add. I can't really argue with being given more options though, so I try not to lose sleep over it.



My HU build, I made it to be a bit more balanced because I had in mind using it with FO class, too, so I also maxed Guard Stance (and Guard Stance Up, that I have at 5). As HU, it depends on the situation for when I use them but now that I'm still not able to use my class-free HU weapons I'm with Guard Stance all the time up, and it really feels good. It should be really useful too, paired with Photon Flare when I get it (yes, I'm that crazy).

Did you raise S-DEF Up? It's 50 points of S-DEF from Guard Stance Up, or 50 points of S-DEF from S-DEF Up 1... Only one of these is active during Fury Stance / helps for unit equip requirements. However, if you only have 5 spare points, ignore me and go Stance Up, it'd turn out better. My favorite thing from /HU is probably Iron Will, something you should definitely look into if you want to get Photon Flare. Flare reduces the number of hits you can take at full HP before dying... Iron Will gives you one more hit when it procs (75% at 10SP), so they balance out.

[SPOnion]

Wait, 14k Safoie? How?!!!
Can I ask about the stats/class combinations regarding this one?

[Gravagar]

Wait, 14k Safoie? How?!!!
Can I ask about the stats/class combinations regarding this one?

Just to clarify, 14k total, not (14k x 3 hits). So at least 4600 per hit.

FO/HU, 1366 T-ATK pre-buffs, I think I only really hit that hard on things like Weak Shot on Varda's core, very situational number. :V

Still, Safoie is really strong.

[SPOnion]

Oh, thanks, that makes more sense with a weak shot...

[Soultrigger]

I just glossed over the thread since I don't want to have to memorize too much stuff, but here are some things to keep in mind for DPS:

1. Most people specialize in something, in FO case this is the Fire path and the Lightning path if they have a spare Skill Tree.
2. This ties in with point 1, but passive skills on trees generally generate a much better return at high levels, particularly max level.
3. Comparing fixed versus percentage modifiers, percentage (aside from Criticals) wins by far. This is talking both presently and long-term, i.e. when the level cap raises. It's basically comparing addition to multiplication.

So basically, most people follow a min/max build that has visible results.

In terms of gear, Ragne+Tech III has approx. 16% chance of success per attempt, so if you break even with luck, that's like 6 tries on one unit. Is it necessary? Definitely not, there are much easier ways to produce high T-ATK with the same money. Until then, a 6* +10 and units all with Ragne Soul/Mutation should easily satisfy your needs.

[Zenobia]

I just glossed over the thread since I don't want to have to memorize too much stuff, but here are some things to keep in mind for DPS:

1. Most people specialize in something, in FO case this is the Fire path and the Lightning path if they have a spare Skill Tree.
2. This ties in with point 1, but passive skills on trees generally generate a much better return at high levels, particularly max level.
3. Comparing fixed versus percentage modifiers, percentage (aside from Criticals) wins by far. This is talking both presently and long-term, i.e. when the level cap raises. It's basically comparing addition to multiplication.

So basically, most people follow a min/max build that has visible results.

In terms of gear, Ragne+Tech III has approx. 16% chance of success per attempt, so if you break even with luck, that's like 6 tries on one unit. Is it necessary? Definitely not, there are much easier ways to produce high T-ATK with the same money. Until then, a 6* +10 and units all with Ragne Soul/Mutation should easily satisfy your needs.

Give this man handclap he deserves it!

[Darki]

I just glossed over the thread since I don't want to have to memorize too much stuff, but here are some things to keep in mind for DPS:

Thanks for your imput. =)


1. Most people specialize in something, in FO case this is the Fire path and the Lightning path if they have a spare Skill Tree.

Hmm... As I've mentioned there I've got two skilltrees for FO and two for HU. In both cases I've made a somewhat full DPS tree (full flame mastery in FO side, JA bonus/Fury Stance in HU side), and while I understand the increase in DPS, I gotta say that I feel much more comfortable playing with my other two skilltrees.

The FO side is divided between Flame and Bolt mastery. I acknowledge the uses of going for Flame Mastery and Tech Charge Advance skills, but Bolt PP save is a real jewel. Not all fights can be decided in short bursts (which fire specializes in), and lightning is the expert in sustained damage. For this I sacrificed 15 points, which would be leaving Flame Mastery at 5 and just taking one of the Tech Charge Advances in favor of the two lightning skills. I'm not dissatisfied at all. The difference in damage between having Bolt Mastery at 5 and only 1 Tech Charge Advance doesn't seem that great compared to having both TCA and no mastery. True, fire is more powerful, but to be honest, I wouldn't play a Force just to use efficiently 5 out of 30 techs.

In fact, I'm planning on investing points on the ice skills now, because even though I agree with you choosing percentual skills over numerical ones, Photon Flare seems very useful to me even with the short duration and the high cooldown, now that we have Photon Flare Advance too. 400 TATK points seem like very significative even in high levels.

In case of HU, the second skilltree is divided between Fury Stance and Guard Stance (both maxed), with JA bonus 1 maxed and 2 at 5, and Guard Stance Up at 5. I really like being able to switch to a defensive stance when doing hard battles because it has a very nice synergy with using techs, and paired with Photon Flare should be very useful.

I'm not saying that my choices are the best, of course. But I've tested the "full DPS" builds, I even keep the "proper" skilltrees prepared for when I need them, but I still prefer using my other two skilltrees simply because they suit my tastes very well.


2. This ties in with point 1, but passive skills on trees generally generate a much better return at high levels, particularly max level.

What sort of passive skills you mean? JA bonus opposed to Fury Stance? Ja bonus opposed to SATK Up? I didn't understand this part too well, sorry.


3. Comparing fixed versus percentage modifiers, percentage (aside from Criticals) wins by far. This is talking both presently and long-term, i.e. when the level cap raises. It's basically comparing addition to multiplication.

I agree with this, although it depends on the amount. I doubt that a fixed percentage of 300~400 points flat would get obsolete that easily.


So basically, most people follow a min/max build that has visible results.

In terms of gear, Ragne+Tech III has approx. 16% chance of success per attempt, so if you break even with luck, that's like 6 tries on one unit. Is it necessary? Definitely not, there are much easier ways to produce high T-ATK with the same money. Until then, a 6* +10 and units all with Ragne Soul/Mutation should easily satisfy your needs.

I never said it's neccesary, simply that is a pain in the ass. ^ ^U Of course I'm not going to disagree with you on this, but I've failed so many affixes at 80% and in the other hand succeeded many with less than 40% that I believe the numbers shown in the menu are far from accurate.

To put a simple example, today I added Tech III and Ragne Soul to my previously non-affixed talis (a Bloomy Colette) without any failures in the process (Tech III on the first slot opening, with only 1 fodder, then soul in the next slot opening). Then, because I was able to use my new Snow Banther units and my previous ones were obsolete but had some of these affixes, I decided to try my luck and I got the same result: one of the units with Tech III + Soul, brute-forced and succeeded on the first try.

In a certain future when I finish with my current setup and proceed to improve it (putting better affixes and trying 3+ of them per equipment), of course I will have to do it the proper way, but for two affixes that sell so cheap I don't really care. At least not now that I need to do it just for two equipments, even if they fail a couple times.