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Cortte
Dec 11, 2012, 07:02 PM
I am currently GU/RA 36/44 and I hardly ever use my rifle or weak bullet for that matter. I just don't like switching and now that chain trigger has a decent cool down on it I feel no need to have my rifle. My question to you fighters is: What are the stat boosts for brave stance and brave stance boost at 10/10? I feel like this might benefit my Gunner much more.

CelestialBlade
Dec 11, 2012, 07:04 PM
First off, Brave Stance 5 and Brave Stance Up 10 is the way to go. I believe with that you'll be doing 140-150% more damage from the front and you'll keep the penalty damage at a minimum. I do FI/GU as secondary to FI/HU and I love the combination of stances and mechs a lot.

Z-0
Dec 11, 2012, 07:05 PM
Brave is 40%, while Wise is 60%.

I recommend maxing both; I highly regret pumping into S-Atk on my Fighter instead of getting the +60% from Wise.

Cortte
Dec 11, 2012, 07:06 PM
Hmmm, hmmm. I do quite like the sounds of those numbers. Thanks a lot for the quick response =]

UnLucky
Dec 11, 2012, 07:07 PM
The penalty from 5 to 10 is just 5%, but definitely a good idea to go for the upgrades first before the stance itself.

gigawuts
Dec 11, 2012, 07:14 PM
Brave is 40%, while Wise is 60%.

I recommend maxing both; I highly regret pumping into S-Atk on my Fighter instead of getting the +60% from Wise.

A bit of a correction: These stats actually multiply, making brave 44% and wise 69%. This is where the multiplication vs. addition difference becomes important, nearly 10% extra damage is enough to make some people spend 10m meseta to upgrade their gear.

Macman
Dec 11, 2012, 08:09 PM
Brave is 40%, while Wise is 60%.

I recommend maxing both; I highly regret pumping into S-Atk on my Fighter instead of getting the +60% from Wise.
Yeah but how many enemies do you regularly attack from behind? All I can think of is Caterdra'n, King Yede, Breeahda, and Wondas.

The Walrus
Dec 11, 2012, 08:10 PM
Tranmizer

Valkyrie Lovrina
Dec 11, 2012, 08:21 PM
I've been playing FI/GU ever since Sub Class's were first implemented. The Stances help Rifles and Twin Mechguns very well and I'd recommend maxing the Stance ups at least. I regret not maxing the Stance Ups(I went for S-Atk up and S-Def ups :().


Yeah but how many enemies do you regularly attack from behind? All I can think of is Caterdra'n, King Yede, Breeahda, and Wondas.they can be Brave Stanced through with Deadly Archer.

Resanoca
Dec 11, 2012, 08:35 PM
Yeah but how many enemies do you regularly attack from behind? All I can think of is Caterdra'n, King Yede, Breeahda, and Wondas.Big Varda, Banther/Banshee, Tranmizer, Ragne, Vol Dragon, Gwanada, Mikuda, Quartz.

gigawuts
Dec 11, 2012, 08:37 PM
Anything that's aggroed on anyone else.

Resanoca
Dec 11, 2012, 08:38 PM
Anything that's aggroed on anyone else.
That too.

CelestialBlade
Dec 11, 2012, 08:55 PM
I didn't think I'd ever use Wise Stance when I started Fighter. The more I play it though, the more I use it. I use it on most bosses anymore.

I have both Brave and Wise Stance at 5 and the Stance Up skills at 10, don't regret it at all. Working on Chase Advance now and it's just as worth it, especially if you have a weapon with a status effect on it.

BIG OLAF
Dec 11, 2012, 08:56 PM
Wise Stance is delicious. I have that completely maxed out. Brave Stance is pretty built, but it and its boost ability aren't 10/10 like my Wise Stance is. I find many more enemies are weak from the back than in the front, and you obviously aren't in a much danger when attacking from behind.

Syklo
Dec 11, 2012, 09:05 PM
As much as I would max out the stance ups, i still need to do that 2nd +5SP CO

Right now I'm investing in S ATK ups, so I can use the better weapons (553 atm, and im lv49), like gwana double.

UnLucky
Dec 11, 2012, 09:05 PM
Well for clarity, you should know that "from behind" doesn't necessarily mean you're hitting the enemy's back. Depends if they're facing you or not, even if whatever attack of yours goes past them to hit their rear.

MetalDude
Dec 11, 2012, 09:06 PM
I honestly have found a lot of reason to avoid changing stances at all. Never used Wise for Mizer because I just use Deadly Archer. I don't do it for Quartz because the tail is a bitch to destroy anyways. Unless I'm alone, I don't bother with Wise Stance on Ragne since I usually take each leg fallover to dish damage in; the weak point is counted as the front anyways.

I definitely use Wise Stance for Vardha as a majority of his parts are on the back side and his main unit tends to sit in the back half also. I also switch it up for Vol Dragon as it's very worthwhile to destroy the tail.

CelestialBlade
Dec 11, 2012, 09:09 PM
the weak point is counted as the front anyways.
"Front" or "back" isn't a native attribute to any one part, it's where you initiate your attack relative to what is considered the "midpoint" of the enemy (generally the head area). You can hit Ragne's weak point for full damage with either Brave or Wise Stance, but for Wise you need to be standing at the VERY back of his platform and use something like Deadly Archer.

MetalDude
Dec 11, 2012, 09:18 PM
Yeah, should have reworded that. It's far more convenient to attack him while you're standing on the front half.

Skyly HUmar
Dec 11, 2012, 09:26 PM
I maxed out both stances, and I got a good bit into chase since im a fan of the poison double saber. The stances are worth maxing, most things will die easily in brave, a few (and actually alot in wise if you can angle yourself just right) will die fast in wise, and its handy when fighting bosses since all of them have breakables in the front and back.

The reason why I wouldnt do chase>stance and this is just me, is because on normal enemies, the status isnt always going to matter, you may not always have weps with statuses that affect your targets (like poison on bug darkers, or burn/mirage on rocky), and if your wep has no status and youre relying on a force or a ranger for that, odds are whatever youre attacking (other than a subboss) isnt going to last very long. It is a great skill though, concidering how much of a boost it gives.

Theyre both great routes to go but I still prefer the stance to be maxed because the preformance is consistent, where as chase you gotta actually inflict the status on them before it kicks in.


"Front" or "back" isn't a native attribute to any one part, it's where you initiate your attack relative to what is considered the "midpoint" of the enemy (generally the head area). You can hit Ragne's weak point for full damage with either Brave or Wise Stance, but for Wise you need to be standing at the VERY back of his platform and use something like Deadly Archer.

Over end works with wise stance on ragne's weak point.

Alenoir
Dec 11, 2012, 09:30 PM
If you're going down the dagger/knuckle tree, give it a few more points and get Chase Advance if you ever plan to melee.

Soultrigger
Dec 11, 2012, 09:33 PM
I mainly use Brave Stance and the occasional Wise Stance. Against mobs, stance switching is way too slow and with MPAs, aside from Wondas, you won't have much chance to attack from behind anyways. I only really use Wise Stance against bosses to break parts, since the stances induce a damage penalty if you're attacking from the wrong side. But even then, Brave Stance is far more useful as it applies a lot more generally (especially with Sonic Arrows against spawning mobs).

I have Brave 10/Brave Up 10/Chase Adv 10, whereas my Wise 3/Wise Up 5 is only enough for DS gear. I mainly use Fighter as a miniboss slayer with Chase Advance, since I have my Gunner to destroy big bosses with Chain Trigger. For a general Fighter though, Chase Adv could be spent on Wise Up instead, but there isn't enough SP to max out both Stances/Stance Ups, and my SP distribution OCD isn't too happy with that.

cruxader
Dec 11, 2012, 09:46 PM
have anyone tried TE/FI? if wise stance and wise stance up is maxed, would using tech on boss's back(say Vol/cater tail) have a significant increase in damage? since techs like ra grant always hits

gigawuts
Dec 11, 2012, 09:48 PM
have anyone tried TE/FI? if wise stance and wise stance up is maxed, would using tech on boss's back(say Vol/cater tail) have a significant increase in damage? since techs like ra grant always hits

Sure, but the extra PP you get from fo's PP revival give you enough PP back to give you better damage over anything more than, say, 10 castings.

Tenlade
Dec 11, 2012, 10:08 PM
Sure, but the extra PP you get from fo's PP revival give you enough PP back to give you better damage over anything more than, say, 10 castings.

hp/pp converstion and pp restorate do the job too for techers.

Considering Fi/Te myself, and wondering how good chase advance would be with poison III weapons + poison ignition, along with zan spam for any bossses weak to mirage.

Zorafim
Dec 11, 2012, 11:56 PM
If you're looking for another sub for gunner, keep hunter in mind. The fury tree boosts ranged attack just as much as melee attack. It's actually my sub of choice for half my classes.

schnee4
Dec 12, 2012, 12:34 AM
Best sub for Gunner imo is Hunter
-20% JA Bonus
-200 R-ATK from Fury Stance
-20% Fury Crit; nullfies any need for DEX

Ranger's good but you're only doing more damage to weak spots.

Fighter is ok... but you'll have to worry about switching Brave and Wise
; you can't really change stances while flying or chaining.
BUT, if they ever add Brave S up 2 or something which they probably will.. Fighter will become the most OP subclass.

Really though you should just sub Ranger, since no one really ever uses weak bullet anymore.

UnLucky
Dec 12, 2012, 01:04 AM
Haha yeah, I did Fo/Ra since it was my second highest before subclasses came out and it feels like everyone dropped it because "someone else will weak bullet for me." We're all just standing around until I whip out my bouquet like "come on guys, really?"

You're going to be hitting weak points anyway, and the straight R-Atk/Dex stats with no penalty is always good (especially for requirements). Standing Snipe obviously conflicts with the aerial stuff, but standing still does carry an accuracy bonus.

As for Hunter, the JA bonus is just regular attacks, and a high Dex nullifies crit rate, not the other way around. With 20% crit you're still going to be rolling low numbers quite a bit.

gigawuts
Dec 12, 2012, 01:09 AM
Haha yeah, I did Fo/Ra since it was my second highest before subclasses came out and it feels like everyone dropped it because "someone else will weak bullet for me." We're all just standing around until I whip out my bouquet like "come on guys, really?"

You're going to be hitting weak points anyway, and the straight R-Atk/Dex stats with no penalty is always good (especially for requirements). Standing Snipe obviously conflicts with the aerial stuff, but standing still does carry an accuracy bonus.

As for Hunter, the JA bonus is just regular attacks, and a high Dex nullifies crit rate, not the other way around. With 20% crit you're still going to be rolling low numbers quite a bit.

JA Bonus applies to PA's.

UnLucky
Dec 12, 2012, 01:44 AM
Oh, I remember that being the description and people crying about it back when I played Hunter. So it's good then, despite only being 10% (each)

Kirine
Dec 12, 2012, 01:50 AM
Oh, I remember that being the description and people crying about it back when I played Hunter. So it's good then, despite only being 10% (each)

I think one of the reasons GU/RA is more prevalent than GU/HU, GU/FI, FI/GU, and HU/GU is just the combo of weak bullet + chain mastery.

Though fairly situational and really only used on large bosses(especially useful when soloing a boss), is the ability to dish 20k+ damage per shot of Elder Rebellion with the relatively low chain between 20~30 and weak bullet applied.

They are carrying a giant cannon they rarely use but they love the option of knowing it is available, which they cannot be blame because if executed correctly, that cannon does one helluva explosion.

Seravi Edalborez
Dec 12, 2012, 01:53 AM
That, and I'd assume most fresh Gunners probably have Ranger as their highest class so it makes the most logical sub. After they get a taste of Weak Bullet + mechguns... it's history.

gigawuts
Dec 12, 2012, 01:55 AM
Oh, I remember that being the description and people crying about it back when I played Hunter. So it's good then, despite only being 10% (each)

Well, the description states no bonuses for techniques, but that was before subbing was ever announced so everyone just assumed it also meant PA's. After that was disproven it was taken as evidence of some type of subclassing.

Kirine
Dec 12, 2012, 01:59 AM
That, and I'd assume most fresh Gunners probably have Ranger as their highest class so it makes the most logical sub. After they get a taste of Weak Bullet + mechguns... it's history.

It is expensive to make good gear, but for Gunners, making a good gear based purely on R-ATK has proven itself to be, if not deadly, very proficient in what it does. I will almost say having a good gear on a gunner gives a greater damage change than compared to other class's boost from good gear.

UnLucky
Dec 12, 2012, 02:01 AM
Well, the description states no bonuses for techniques, but that was before subbing was ever announced so everyone just assumed it also meant PA's. After that was disproven it was taken as evidence of some type of subclassing.

Well it's a crying shame it doesn't work for Techs (does it?) and Weak Hit Advance only works for guns, but these fighter stances work for everything. Watch it be nerfed to only boost striking damage.

gravityvx
Dec 12, 2012, 02:17 AM
Best sub for Gunner imo is Hunter
-20% JA Bonus
-200 R-ATK from Fury Stance
-20% Fury Crit; nullfies any need for DEX

Ranger's good but you're only doing more damage to weak spots.

Fighter is ok... but you'll have to worry about switching Brave and Wise
; you can't really change stances while flying or chaining.
BUT, if they ever add Brave S up 2 or something which they probably will.. Fighter will become the most OP subclass.

Really though you should just sub Ranger, since no one really ever uses weak bullet anymore.

I'll have to disagree with this. While that is a decent sub, ranger is far more in sync with what gunner does best, rock single targets with burst damage. You miss out on weak hit(which is almost essential to be in sync with chain finish), weak bullet, standing snipe, and of course you get extra R-atk with left over points if you want. Hunter would be more of a sustained damage sub, I would argue it to be one of the best for MPA if it wasn't for not having weak bullet to help out the mpa since I prefer more utility at my disposal.

Zorafim
Dec 12, 2012, 03:29 AM
From what I've seen, Hunter is better for overall sustained damage, while Ranger is better for burst. So really, Hunter's better for multiparty farming (when are you going to weak shot there?), or otherwise weak enemies. And Ranger is better at bosses (when are you NOT going to weak shot there?). I use them both, and I think either will work.

As for always hitting the weak spot of an enemy, well, I never can as a gunner. I always lock on, and weak spots are rarely a lockon target (unless they are).

gravityvx
Dec 12, 2012, 03:41 AM
Hunter's better for multiparty farming (when are you going to weak shot there?)

Assuming you're talking about weak bullet, Ragne, Wolga, Mammoths, Cyclops, Crabs, Zesh, Banthers, Rockbear, code destruction, etc, pretty much everything aside from fodder(the tiny enemies), unless you're really lazy and don't use your weak bullet on anything. Only takes a few seconds to tag a few enemies.

MetalDude
Dec 12, 2012, 03:48 AM
Most normal darkers have a lock on for their weak point. As for dealing extra damage via headshot, you have to TPV it or position yourself so that shots always hit the head.