Weakest/least viable class combo?

[NoGoBoard]

What do you believe is the weakest/worst/least viable class combo and why?

[MetalDude]

TE/GU probably. There's so little that each of the two classes would benefit from (FI/TE is experimental but can work in a way), you don't even get weak bullet from RA, or charge PP revival and flame S tech charge from FO.

[Jyasupa]

trap ranger

[ZIE creations]

Useless information is useless, also, I think the new classes were added to mix with the original 3, hence why they "fill gaps" (like techtar having the light/dark/wind masteries)

[Jakosifer]

rock eastwood

[yoshiblue]

rock eastwood

So cool, he became a class of his own. Does that make him the chosen one? Or the next Red Ring Rico?

[Jyasupa]

So cool, he became a class of his own. Does that make him the chosen one? Or the next Red Ring Rico?

no
he became
the next
glock easthood

[Kion]

This game is pretty much made so that if you put skill points into something, you're character will get good at it. Finding unusual combination like tank builds, or heal gunner may not have the highest dps, but you can still find ways to fill niches in parties. The only thing I can think that would gimp your character would be spreading your skill points too thin. The largest boost comes from 7+. So unless you're just all over the place with your build you shouldn't run into too much trouble.

[Courina]

not sure if i could say i really have least useful combo... since i pretty much have everything equal in level...

im only can say
most least useful sub for me prolly force... it only useful for PP regen buff while techer...
while techer is my master sub, cause any main class i use, techer always become the sub cause support ability with pp passive regen

prolly cause im a cast and not really do nuke...

[Coatl]

GU/RA.
wwwww

[Z-0]

GU/RA.
wwwww
yeah worst class

i didn't really rank them too high even after rebellion (except for boss killing, obviously), but with craft plosion / flame visit available... lol

personally gonna say gu/ra isn't best class ever though, even with launchers available to them now (that are decent ofc)

anything with te as a main is probably the worst
or maybe gu or fi if your sub sucks that you can't take advantage of sword / launcher (single target damage onry gaiiz)

[Kion]

GU/RA.
wwwww

Actually I'm pretty curious about this. I main with ranger, with weak bullet, weak hit 1&2 and standing shot 1&halfway through 2. I'm used to being able to snipe an enemy for 2k normal damage, or walk up or 1.5k damage on the shotgun skill for rifle for normal damage. Also my normal damage on rifle is around 50 damage per hit. (and a lot more with weak bullet).

So my question is, how do people get any dps on twin hand guns? I get like 30 damage per hit on them and with PA's like 120 per hit even on a weak spot. If any one needs more details i can describe them, just by feeling it takes me a lot longer to take down mobs with twin hand guns versus a rifle.

Normally it doesn't bother me, but for all of the twin hand gun client orders where you have to kill some boss, it literally takes forever as often I can't find parites to run with. I end up doing them solo most of the time. I tried chain trigger but most of the time where ever i chain trigger the part of the enemy will immediately clip into a wall (ragnus), or the enemy will just away (banther) completely ruining the chain. Or missing the timing on a dodge ruins chain trigger too.

So gunners, how are you getting any dps with these pea shooters?

[Rien]

Chain Trigger.
Chain Finish.

Dead Approach, Aerial Shooting and Satellite Aim are your best friends if you aren't getting the cookie cutter Elder Rebellion.

[Galax]

If you're surrounded, reverse tap, bullet squall, dead approach.
That is, if you want to do damage before shiftflipping out of the way.

Reverse Tap to stun mobs in the immediate vicinity, bullet squall to jump out of range of basic attacks and storm them with bullets, flip out of the way, fire off a few normal attacks, and dead approach to close in again before switching to a gun with sat aim.

My actual advice? Use ER. Cookie-cutter or not, it's overpowered as hell. Feels like it anyway.

[Kirine]

Actually I'm pretty curious about this. I main with ranger, with weak bullet, weak hit 1&2 and standing shot 1&halfway through 2. I'm used to being able to snipe an enemy for 2k normal damage, or walk up or 1.5k damage on the shotgun skill for rifle for normal damage. Also my normal damage on rifle is around 50 damage per hit. (and a lot more with weak bullet).

So my question is, how do people get any dps on twin hand guns? I get like 30 damage per hit on them and with PA's like 120 per hit even on a weak spot. If any one needs more details i can describe them, just by feeling it takes me a lot longer to take down mobs with twin hand guns versus a rifle.

Normally it doesn't bother me, but for all of the twin hand gun client orders where you have to kill some boss, it literally takes forever as often I can't find parites to run with. I end up doing them solo most of the time. I tried chain trigger but most of the time where ever i chain trigger the part of the enemy will immediately clip into a wall (ragnus), or the enemy will just away (banther) completely ruining the chain. Or missing the timing on a dodge ruins chain trigger too.

So gunners, how are you getting any dps with these pea shooters?

Chain Finish lv.10
Weak Bullet
Elder Rebellion
Rifle
Good Twin Guns



You go to rifle, load weak bullet and chain trigger at the same time. Shoot an enemy's weak point to activate both, then switch to twin guns... get 20~30 chain then use elder rebellion.

Seriously, that alone is 15k~30k damage per shot, totally up to 150k~300k total damage at the end of 1 elder rebellion.

[yunamon]

Actually I'm pretty curious about this. I main with ranger, with weak bullet, weak hit 1&2 and standing shot 1&halfway through 2. I'm used to being able to snipe an enemy for 2k normal damage, or walk up or 1.5k damage on the shotgun skill for rifle for normal damage. Also my normal damage on rifle is around 50 damage per hit. (and a lot more with weak bullet).

So my question is, how do people get any dps on twin hand guns? I get like 30 damage per hit on them and with PA's like 120 per hit even on a weak spot. If any one needs more details i can describe them, just by feeling it takes me a lot longer to take down mobs with twin hand guns versus a rifle.

Normally it doesn't bother me, but for all of the twin hand gun client orders where you have to kill some boss, it literally takes forever as often I can't find parites to run with. I end up doing them solo most of the time. I tried chain trigger but most of the time where ever i chain trigger the part of the enemy will immediately clip into a wall (ragnus), or the enemy will just away (banther) completely ruining the chain. Or missing the timing on a dodge ruins chain trigger too.

So gunners, how are you getting any dps with these pea shooters?

PA rapid fire is the way to go, as least that's what my GURA does... All my augmentations are into R-ATK and Dex. Skill wise I go for weak advance and all them + R-ATK/Dex. Minimum CT/CF invested cause I see not much use of them unless on Varder...

And GURA's weak? You should see a team of them (3 or more) in any MPAs...

My usual normal attack DPS is 100+ per bullet shot at least.

[Kion]

I was kind of getting at how to take on a boss solo, twin handguns only for CO's.

As for skill tree build on gunner. I have it on weak hit advance and stuff right now. Should I be going more for dex + r-atk for normal hit rather than weak target hit orientated?

[Kirine]

I was kind of getting at how to take on a boss solo, twin handguns only for CO's.

As for skill tree build on gunner. I have it on weak hit advance and stuff right now. Should I be going more for dex + r-atk for normal hit rather than weak target hit orientated?


With proper gear and with weak hit av 1 and 2... gunners can deal 1.5k per shot on an enemy's weak point with no chain.

That's 10k+ damage per full use.

[Rien]

I was kind of getting at how to take on a boss solo, twin handguns only for CO's.

As for skill tree build on gunner. I have it on weak hit advance and stuff right now. Should I be going more for dex + r-atk for normal hit rather than weak target hit orientated?

You mean Ranger?

At least max weakpoint advances before going for R-atk (if you really, REALLY want to)

Here's some basic tactics for fighting bosses:
[SPOILER-BOX]
Rockbear: Elder Rebellion face. If not, jump>dead approach to face>satellite aim, shiftdodge away.

Vol Dragon: Elder Rebellion Tail and Horn. If not, charged Aerial Shooting can get to the tail from the ground easily enough. Satellite Aim on Horn.

Gwanada: Dead Approach/Satellite Aim/Aerial Shooting (uncharged) tentacles, Elder Rebellion/Satellite Aim weakspot.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Yeah, Elder Rebellion does everything lol.

[Kirine]

You mean Ranger?

At least max weakpoint advances before going for R-atk (if you really, REALLY want to)

Here's some basic tactics for fighting bosses:
[SPOILER-BOX]
Rockbear: Elder Rebellion face. If not, jump>dead approach to face>satellite aim, shiftdodge away.

Vol Dragon: Elder Rebellion Tail and Horn. If not, charged Aerial Shooting can get to the tail from the ground easily enough. Satellite Aim on Horn.

Gwanada: Dead Approach/Satellite Aim/Aerial Shooting (uncharged) tentacles, Elder Rebellion/Satellite Aim weakspot.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Yeah, Elder Rebellion does everything lol.

I once had a friend who said, when Elder first came out (back when rare bosses were scarce) how Elder was trash and that infinite fire was infinitely better than elder rebellion in any given situation.

He even went as far to show on paper that IF and SA were better... except...

... he omitted the last 3 shots of elder rebellion out of his formula because it wasn't constant DPS.

[Rien]

I once had a friend who said, when Elder first came out (back when rare bosses were scarce) how Elder was trash and that infinite fire was infinitely better than elder rebellion in any given situation.

He even went as far to show on paper that IF and SA were better... except...

... he omitted the last 3 shots of elder rebellion out of his formula because it wasn't constant DPS.

Sounds like PA-ism.

I can't really click fast enough to use IF though, so I end up with Elder all the time.

[MetalDude]

I use IF if I want more headshots in TPV. ER is for when I want to easy mode auto aim or end a chain. Follow up ER with IF for easy juggling.

[Coatl]

Land weak bullet on boss's face > land chain > deadly approach in front of boss' face > elder rebellion > feel like a boss > win.

In all honesty though, GU/RA might have great DPS, but in terms of the highest amount of damage in the shortest amount of time, FI/HU or FI/GU probably wins out.

[Rien]

But chains for FI/HU + GU take too long to set up.

You know, like that miracle Over End Chain Finish. I still have no idea how to get those first/first two swings to miss.

[Z-0]

lol, you think FI/HU is bad at DPS? must be bad at using swords and double saber then.

[Rien]

lol, you think FI/HU is bad at DPS? must be bad at using swords and double saber then.

It's not bad DPS

It just doesn't output as much compared to the more ridiculous things we see

(41k satellite aim, anybody?

[Z-0]

On single targets, yes.

Overall? No.

[Coatl]

But chains for FI/HU + GU take too long to set up.

You know, like that miracle Over End Chain Finish. I still have no idea how to get those first/first two swings to miss.

At close range FI/GU can gain faster chain than GU/RA.
Takes like 2 seconds to get it to 20 with whirwind and double saber normal attacks, then you just use Deadly Archer and see the crazy numbers.
That's by yourself though. It gets crazier with more people with you.

[Meji]

no
he became
the next
Doodoo

There we go, fixed the spoiler text for you.

[NoiseHERO]

I'd so love to break people's weapons.

[Meji]

I'd so love to break people's weapons.
And souls.

[NoiseHERO]

And souls.

I can already do that one.

BUT AT DODO SPEED??

Psht!

[Alenoir]

It's not bad DPS

It just doesn't output as much compared to the more ridiculous things we see

What are you talking about. (http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18930368)

Note: This was back when Lv40 is the max level and subclass doesn't exist.

[MetalDude]

Youtube really needs to get with the times and allow 60 FPS already. I'm not used to how deliciously smooth that video was.

But yeah, I'm not sure how DA itself is not an obvious testament to FI's DPS. Even outside of that, I have a palette of Acro Effect, Tornado Dance, and Rumbling Moon that string very well into each other and is awesome for moving targets (my setup of choice for Falz Hands).

[Indignation Judgment]

I skipped pages 2-3.

GuRa has a lot of damage against a single target, but it has a harder time at massive groups than any of the other classes - Even RaGu due to Launcher.

I'm leveling Fi and Te right now, going FiTe at the end. While I'm not the damage lead, I can happily switch between support and brawler. Also, that delicius zondeel being a melee player's best friend.

On the worst combinations, it has to be something related to ranged classes. Prolly RaFo. Techer outshines Force when it comes to add magic abilities to other classes (with the exception of Fi, due to stances) since it has better S/D/resta support. Also, Elemental Weak Hit and PP Recovery are always usefull.

So, the worst combination would be subbing Force as any class - except Fighter and Techer.

[gravityvx]

GuRa has a lot of damage against a single target, but it has a harder time at massive groups than any of the other classes - Even RaGu due to Launcher.


Gunner lacking aoe is a non issue now due to the new all class launcher. Even grinded at just +4 my just attack with divine launcher pa does 2.6k-3kish. So I think gunner excels in all fields now thanks to that.

[schnee4]

If you want nightmare mode, go Hunter Ranger, and only use wired lance and traps.

[Z-0]

wait for the "gunner is most broken class ever and should be nerfed" bandwagon

wait for it

they won't realise things like fi/hu and ra/fi can kill a lot of stuff faster (group-wise ofc), especially since they can speed dash everywhere with no pp cost (unless you live in Japan or close to, so can triple dash). also fo/fi is pretty much a joke in MPAs.

conclusion: everything is broken

[UnLucky]

Stances should be striking only, Weak Bullet shouldn't stack with natural weak points, enemies should have elemental resistances, and mech guns should have to reload, returning you to the ground.

Then everyone can stop playing.

[Cry0]

conclusion: everything is broken

then sega did their job right, imho.

I don't think there is any class-combo that can't fill a certain role in a party.

[gigawuts]

Stances should be striking only, Weak Bullet shouldn't stack with natural weak points, enemies should have elemental resistances, and mech guns should have to reload, returning you to the ground.

Then everyone can stop playing.

Most of this would be so incredibly boring, though.

If anything they just need to rebalance certain PA's again with the next wave of higher level disks.

Elemental resistances is a good idea though, at least for techs. I wish there was a no-element option for weapons so they'd still have the % but would have an option of never being better or worse due to which element they are. That would've been a nicer fix than the "all rares have elements" thing.

Cryo nailed it - As long as everyone is equally OP, everything is cool.

[The Walrus]

I kinda wish they'd bring back the enemy type weakness thing. Ya know native, alt beast, mech and dark and maybe expand it. That was a fun system

[Z-0]

Yeah, I honestly have no problems with the balancing in this game. Many people tell me that SEGA should really rework the ranged classes mainly (lol), but after actually playing all classes in like all modes, I quite like how the classes work.

Except Techer.

Might be "fun" to play but they're seriously UP compared to the other classes. However, I guess it's not a huge problem as much as other games because anyone with Techer should, and will have Force to switch to with a mag so it's not like you have to recreate your character to "keep up".

[UnLucky]

Yeah, Techer is really underwhelming. They've got Wand Gear and maybe Poison Ignite for interesting/unique playing style, but other than that there's nothing special about element trees. Their best use is to sub them for the PP gain or Deband Cut. Boring.

[gigawuts]

Yeah, techer blows as a main. But as a sub they're next to fighter in usefulness.

They really could use some tweaks though. Things like a fix to casting speeds (just normalizing it to be in line with everything else, it's probably not even intended), and then a few new things, maybe based around the gear. Maybe some kind of per-element boosts, like sword gear? Bonuses to non-charged techs?

Or maybe just special stuff for wind and light, like all other 4 elements get. AOE radius for wind, chance to knock down for light, I don't know there's any number of ways to make them more useful for spellsword-like playstyles.

Fuck it all make wand gear reduce casting time on wands by up to 35%, just shorten the animation after casting. Done. Broken, maybe, but better than a fire force at pure casting? No.

Or give wand gear a built in deband cut ability to complement their intended close range style.

There's a million things they can do, which makes it funny that they're leaving it as-is.

[Soultrigger]

Yeah, I honestly have no problems with the balancing in this game. Many people tell me that SEGA should really rework the ranged classes mainly (lol), but after actually playing all classes in like all modes, I quite like how the classes work.

Except Techer.

Might be "fun" to play but they're seriously UP compared to the other classes. However, I guess it's not a huge problem as much as other games because anyone with Techer should, and will have Force to switch to with a mag so it's not like you have to recreate your character to "keep up".

Ironically, I find Ranger to be the hardest class to play. Any other class, you can pretty much go into cruise control, but with Ranger, you have to deal with Weak Bullet and PP management. A badly placed Weak Bullet can pretty much ruin an entire MPA, so you really can't afford to mess up. Using Rodeo Drive to move faster also makes it harder to have PP stocked when you need to use Weak Bullet on the fly.

I personally don't like Launchers. Compared to Forces, Divine Launcher is both slower and weaker. Rodeo Drive is good for damage if you pair it with ZRA, Brave Stance, or Fury Stance, but positioning becomes a huge hassle and you tend to miss at least one enemy.

And yea, the main issue with Techer is that, unlike the other new classes, Techer doesn't really stack with Force in terms of damage modifiers, so the only real benefit from it are PP Restore/Convert and Masteries in alternative elements. There also isn't much reason to choose Wand over Rod since Mirage Dash makes for a poor approach tool. Unless you managed to get a Tsukiyomi/Elysion/Madame Umbrella/etc and want to roll with that, Force is the ideal main for Technic users.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Element Weak Hit Advance, but Brave Stance is still far better as a damage modifier.

[MetalDude]

Critical Up skills need to be removed from every tree.

Really, my only issue with balance is overcentralizing PAs and technics. It's one thing to have situational PAs like stuns (great for fucking up big nasties), but it's another for moderately good PAs to be entirely outclassed by one that either deals a truckload of damage (DA) or is simply super useful (Sonic Arrow). I love DA for how stupidly good it is, but I have to switch it up for something less optimal from time to time so I don't bore myself to death (outside of crushing bosses/midbosses of course).

I got tired of swords because spamming SA gets old and none of its PAs really connect well outside of Rising Edge and Twister Fall. Ride Slasher is hella fun though and a stupidly good way to build gear. Problem is, you can't really nerf SA in a way that removes its high utility without killing its damage and thereby making it less desirable to use.

[Alenoir]

I personally don't like Launchers. Compared to Forces, Divine Launcher is both slower and weaker. Rodeo Drive is good for damage if you pair it with ZRA, Brave Stance, or Fury Stance, but positioning becomes a huge hassle and you tend to miss at least one enemy.
Cluster Bullet level 14. AoE, 375% damage. This is why VH launcher RAs mainly uses that. (I can hit 4k damage on target zone, and everything around it gets hit for 1k.) You also build up your PB about 2x faster than normal with that PA.

[Z-0]

Ironically, I find Ranger to be the hardest class to play. Any other class, you can pretty much go into cruise control, but with Ranger, you have to deal with Weak Bullet and PP management. A badly placed Weak Bullet can pretty much ruin an entire MPA, so you really can't afford to mess up. Using Rodeo Drive to move faster also makes it harder to have PP stocked when you need to use Weak Bullet on the fly.
That's because, going for efficiency, Ranger is the hardest class to get the most out of. Aiming and positioning has to be done well, and obviously, as you said, PP management. They also have the worst dodge in the entire game. Step is far because because you can cancel it in many ways, giving yourself more invincibility frames (jump cancel, weapon cancel, PA cancel), and mirage dodge just has a lot of frames. GU roll is the same.

Although, personally, I think a lot of people are severely underestimating launchers these days. I know quite a lot of people who seem to think mechguns are superior, but Recocta of Valiant pretty much shows how destructive Launchers can be if used properly (http://nicotter.net/watch/sm19446455).

Interestingly enough, I'm not sure if anyone has found out the amazingness of Additional Bullet. With it, it makes Gunslash an uber weapon, as Selka shows here as a RA/HU, clearing Solo VH Naberius in 10:20 using only Gunslash (with Rifle for weak bullet on the bosses) (http://nicotter.net/watch/sm19565232).

[MetalDude]

Yeah, I've quickly realized that Cluster Bullet is both faster and superior in regards to damage. It's cheaper too I think.

EDIT: I seriously don't see people using Rodeo Drive enough outside of RA users on our team. It's stupidly powerful.

I don't know what it is about Gunslashes but I've never liked using them. I dislike their normals a lot and the step attack feels very slow and aggravating to aim with. I've had a feeling that I've underestimated them, but I just don't like using them at all. Additional Bullet is really awesome though. I've picked up on it from doing Kressida Gunslash only COs.

[Alenoir]

On the worst combinations, it has to be something related to ranged classes. Prolly RaFo. Techer outshines Force when it comes to add magic abilities to other classes (with the exception of Fi, due to stances) since it has better S/D/resta support. Also, Elemental Weak Hit and PP Recovery are always usefull.

Very situational, but against Falz, if you happen to invested into the thunder tree, subbing FO is better than TE for the increased shock chance. (You do piss-poor tech damage, so it's perfect.)

[Soultrigger]

It's funny how I'm sitting on an SSPN+10 and a Vraolet Zero+10 with Addition Bullet lvl 14. Had no idea Addition Bullet gave spread damage, haha.

[Kirine]

I find GU/RA to be very balanced (even with the rocket launchers such as flame visit and craft plosion available for them).

People say they are too overpowering, but not at all. They are meant to be boss killers, and even then, FI and FO can pretty much match a gunner in terms of boss killing, so they aren't really at an advantage. Weak + Bullet combo? Not only they can't miss, but it's very easy for them to lose chain or even land a full combination. Also their defense is weak which makes HU/FI appealing and at least FO has a better dodge and can heal themselves without the need to stand still for 3-4 seconds to finish up a drink.

MPA? GU are sorely lacking in that department. Even if they use a launcher to deal 3k-5k area damage on multiple enemy's weakpoint, they are squishy as heck which makes HU and FI superior to them in terms of MPA survivability and FO/TE wipes the floor with GU in terms of mass area killing.

To sum it up:

GU/RA summary:

+GU/RA is good at boss fighting which it is suppose to do
+Decent Flip for dodging, not the rolling, the actual flip.
+Able to stay in air where they can avoid a bulk of bosses' attacks.
-Other Classes such as FI and FO can match a GU's boss killing speed. FI can actually kill a boss faster with chain finish. So while GU is good at boss killing, it is severely underplayed when equally equipped FI and FO come in and wipe the floors with boss.
-Squishy, one-two hits, they are down. Even male cast GU/RA, I have seen some pretty sad deaths.
-Cannot heal themselves easily. 1-4 seconds for a drink while standing still?
-Sucks at MPA. Even with launchers. In MPA, they do not have the defense/hp (and don't even bring up the topic on how a good MPA you shouldn't get hit. How many times I have seen GU die to boss hits, sure they get revived, but it doesn't mean they take hits easier). Hunter/FI/FO/TI at least have defense and self healing respectively.
-Really, such an easy class to play, there's no creativity for GU, just elder rebellion/normal attack/dead approach, all you ever need to "succeed" the class. Of course you can be creative, but what's the whole point if the same cookie cutter works just as well?


If GU/RA was so overpowering, then Sega would have nerfed the class, if anything, GU needs better boss killing power when FO can match a GURA's boss killing time, and FI only takes 1/2 the time for GU/RA to kill a boss, while Hunter just survives and takes it down quite well.

Sure, WB + Chain finish does impressive numbers, but that's it. It's only usable once every 2-3 minutes, if you don't manage to miss, lose your chain, or fail to finish your combo. During the wait time between, FI would have already been done with a boss and FO would be at the same damage area when you do use it. Hunters? They aren't going to die anytime soon.


To summarize: GU/RA, despite the hype, is the most balanced underpowered combination there is (sounds like a paradox).

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike GU/RA combo. If anything, I like playing Gunners. Why? To me, they have such flashy moves it makes you feel like a real gun hero. I find their movements more visually appealing than any moves or technics the other classes have.

[Rien]

Interestingly enough, I'm not sure if anyone has found out the amazingness of Additional Bullet. With it, it makes Gunslash an uber weapon, as Selka shows here as a RA/HU, clearing Solo VH Naberius in 10:20 using only Gunslash (with Rifle for weak bullet on the bosses) (http://nicotter.net/watch/sm19565232).

What gunslash is this? Lambda Twizzler?

[gravityvx]

I find GU/RA to be very balanced (even with the rocket launchers such as flame visit and craft plosion available for them).

People say they are too overpowering, but not at all. They are meant to be boss killers, and even then, FI and FO can pretty much match a gunner in terms of boss killing, so they aren't really at an advantage. Weak + Bullet combo? Not only they can't miss, but it's very easy for them to lose chain or even land a full combination. Also their defense is weak which makes HU/FI appealing and at least FO has a better dodge and can heal themselves without the need to stand still for 3-4 seconds to finish up a drink.

MPA? GU are sorely lacking in that department. Even if they use a launcher to deal 3k-5k area damage on multiple enemy's weakpoint, they are squishy as heck which makes HU and FI superior to them in terms of MPA survivability and FO/TE wipes the floor with GU in terms of mass area killing.

To sum it up:

GU/RA summary:

+GU/RA is good at boss fighting which it is suppose to do
+Decent Flip for dodging, not the rolling, the actual flip.
+Able to stay in air where they can avoid a bulk of bosses' attacks.
-Other Classes such as FI and FO can match a GU's boss killing speed. FI can actually kill a boss faster with chain finish. So while GU is good at boss killing, it is severely underplayed when equally equipped FI and FO come in and wipe the floors with boss.
-Squishy, one-two hits, they are down. Even male cast GU/RA, I have seen some pretty sad deaths.
-Cannot heal themselves easily. 1-4 seconds for a drink while standing still?
-Sucks at MPA. Even with launchers. In MPA, they do not have the defense/hp (and don't even bring up the topic on how a good MPA you shouldn't get hit. How many times I have seen GU die to boss hits, sure they get revived, but it doesn't mean they take hits easier). Hunter/FI/FO/TI at least have defense and self healing respectively.
-Really, such an easy class to play, there's no creativity for GU, just elder rebellion/normal attack/dead approach, all you ever need to "succeed" the class. Of course you can be creative, but what's the whole point if the same cookie cutter works just as well?


If GU/RA was so overpowering, then Sega would have nerfed the class, if anything, GU needs better boss killing power when FO can match a GURA's boss killing time, and FI only takes 1/2 the time for GU/RA to kill a boss, while Hunter just survives and takes it down quite well.

Sure, WB + Chain finish does impressive numbers, but that's it. It's only usable once every 2-3 minutes, if you don't manage to miss, lose your chain, or fail to finish your combo. During the wait time between, FI would have already been done with a boss and FO would be at the same damage area when you do use it. Hunters? They aren't going to die anytime soon.


To summarize: GU/RA, despite the hype, is the most balanced underpowered combination there is (sounds like a paradox).

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike GU/RA combo. If anything, I like playing Gunners. Why? To me, they have such flashy moves it makes you feel like a real gun hero. I find their movements more visually appealing than any moves or technics the other classes have.


That is quite a well thought out opinion. But I disagree with about over half of that especially the bolded. I main gunner and I can assure you that I don't suck at MPA, nor do most of the gunners I have seen. And saying even with launcher? Have you even used the new launcher on gunner? It's no different than playing a ranger in terms of completely destroying large crowds of enemy fodder. Also, I have plenty of defense, maybe you are just using some really bad units, but even still I die just as fast as my hunter & fighter. You are making far too many assumptions about MPA, or you play with alot of really bad players that just sit there and die the entire MPA. I also dunno where you're getting that hunter isn't squishy, pretty much everything in very hard destroys hunters unless they are packing some serious defense and hp.

As for not having weak bullet or chain up, ok, I then just aim at the weak spot doing over 1k-2k+ per shot throughout elder rebillions "combo", which usually adds up to a hefty number by the end of the PA. No matter how much you try to downplay gunners single target power(without chain+WB) it's just not possible. They are nowhere near underpowered and neither are the other classes, in fact I think the only classes getting the short end in terms of boss killing speed are forces & techers currently(but still very powerful).

[lunarsoul]

I dunno if its just my build/gear but my RA/GU can absorb damage alot better than my HU/FI, so I would also have to disagree with Kirine and agree with gravityvx especially about FO/TE.

[gigawuts]

So long as you can hit something at range easily, and/or can apply a team buff, a class will never be bad.

Now, hu/fi or fi/hu, I would not call bad at all, however I would call them situational. Hu/fi or fi/hu are exceedingly good at what they do, but what they do isn't particularly common or exclusive. A gu/ra can kill things at close range too, and so can a fo/te. Hu/fi on the other hand cannot easily do things at range, nor can they easily and lazily evade everything thrown at them with about 50 yards of notice for incoming attacks while dealing damage at the same time to things not on the same horizontal plane as them.

They also have to deal with irritating hitboxes, with attacks very blatantly coming from the front registering as hitting from behind (meaning no just guard), being surrounded by enemies as they do their normal scattering thing, and being subjected to multiple flinch-inducing attacks.

I can't really imagine calling any combination that allows attacks at range or offers team buffs bad, because you can help everyone around you without ever risking being hit by the highest damage attacks. But there are certainly situations where a hu/fi or fi/hu borders on being a paperweight with a healthbar.