Bosses

[terrell707]

So one day, being bored and just thinking about random stuff, I started thinking about the bosses of PSO, PSU (include PSP2 and PSP2i), and PSO2, and I noticed something. I think SEGA loves dragons for some reason. PSO has 3 dragons (though I guess the Ep4 dragon gets a pass because its not very dragon like in its attacks) and PSU has a total of about 8 Dragons, and so far PSO2 has 2 dragons with another dragon being confirmed so thats 3.

Another thing I was thinking about was harder difficulty bosses. Something that PSO did was some bosses would gain an extra attack during each difficulty level and some even gained another form. The dragon became Ice in Ultimate, Dark Falz turned into his holy form on Hard and higher, the Cyber Dragon split into 3 instead of 2 i believe on Hard or Very Hard, Gal Gryphon gained an electric attack on hard (the attack where electricity bolts from his fangs across the length of the map), and the attack would then scatter on Very Hard, Olga Flow gained the ability to transfer his soul into another player on Hard and above. Bosses gaining something extra seemed to be lost in PSU and is still lost on PSO2.

A Final thing I was thinking about was gimmicks during a boss. PSO didn't really have any but PSU had a few. The moveable boat to dodge De Rol Le/Dark Falz's attacks, the ability to jump into the air and fight Dark Falz Dios from the sky, the way that the Crab/Machine boss from Infinity can manipulate the battle field. These were pretty fun and helped to make the bosses unique.

So I guess the point of this thread is, what do you think of the bosses now compared to the bosses of old? Do you think Dragon bosses are cool or do you want something a bit more? Are gimmicks during a boss a good thing?

Personally I like the bosses now, I think they are pretty fun (minus the fact they die easily) but I do wish they had something a bit more. The fact that bosses have breakable parts is really cool but that is all the seems to be different. What do you think?

[Syklo]

Some bosses on higher difficulties actually DO get different attack patterns and new attacks entirely, namely quartz dragon's light rain (Correct me if i'm wrong though, I've never observed light rain or 4-hit combo on hard mode).
And a fairly noticeable difference is there between the bane twins (fang/snow) on normal and on VH.
Other than such minor changes, it isn't drastic...
There are other gimicks with bosses and status effects, but nearly no environmental gimmicks...

Didn't play older PS games so I can't compare there. Meaning it's just fine for me as I have no prior expectations :P

[Seravi Edalborez]

There are some bosses with arena gimmicks, and I can think of one rare version of a boss with an entirely new attack.

Dark Ragne: When fought in his boss arena (city EQ), has an "attack" where he can crawl up the walls and either jump down or just walk down.

Quartz Dragon: In his arena, has an attack where he flies "offscreen" and darts back in.

Fang duo: In arena, can climb the trees and pounce down at you.

Tranzexia: Has a "gun" mode in addition to the regular "mech" and "car/tank" mode. Not much experience with this.

[Reiketsu]

This reminds me, the banthers have an attack where they jump on you and chew on your face or something, but in all the time I've played this game, I only saw it once myself and once in a video @_@

[BIG OLAF]

This reminds me, the banthers have an attack where they jump on you and chew on your face or something, but in all the time I've played this game, I only saw it once myself and once in a video @_@

Yes, also Falz Hunar does something like that, too. He once grabbed me, threw me up into the air and then roundhouse-kicked me back down into the ground. Was awesome. :D

[terrell707]

Eh. I think I'm using gimmick wrong. I'll just give some examples. Like in PSP2i, for those who never fought the final boss, in this fight you can press a command that makes your character jump into the sky and then a platform catches you allowing you to fight the boss from a higher perspective. From here, you can target the boss's head, torso, tail, and dodge some of his lower attacks. However being up there also causes him to use a few more powerful attacks such as a laser, and pulling you in and then slashing you. He can also knock you back down if you don't dodge his stomps in time.

So I'm thinking things like this. Maybe a boss where activating a switch creates an electrical barrier and if the boss runs into it, it exposes his weak point. Or a Floating Continent boss that is so big you have to use tornados to get to the upper parts of the boss. Or a desert boss that can knock you into quicksand and if you sink down far enough, you get dropped into a lower room where you have to fight your way out to rejoin your comrades at the main fight. Or maybe a Darker boss that can create a code: Rescue to split your team up so that you have to rescue each other, or fight for yourself to get back to the main battle. Things like that is what I'm thinking.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Some bosses on higher difficulties actually DO get different attack patterns and new attacks entirely, namely quartz dragon's light rain (Correct me if i'm wrong though, I've never observed light rain or 4-hit combo on hard mode).
And a fairly noticeable difference is there between the bane twins (fang/snow) on normal and on VH.
Other than such minor changes, it isn't drastic...
There are other gimicks with bosses and status effects, but nearly no environmental gimmicks...

Didn't play older PS games so I can't compare there. Meaning it's just fine for me as I have no prior expectations :P


uh...Light rain is absolutely in hard mode and if you mean the nose swipes x4 he only does that in rage mode, but he also does that on hard.

[Syklo]

uh...Light rain is absolutely in hard mode and if you mean the nose swipes x4 he only does that in rage mode, but he also does that on hard.
hmmmm odd. Can't recall for certain on the nose swipes but in the 40+ times i fought QD on hard, not once have i seen her use light rain.
The light missiles, were there of course but not light rain.

[Reiketsu]

Yes, also Falz Hunar does something like that, too. He once grabbed me, threw me up into the air and then roundhouse-kicked me back down into the ground. Was awesome. :D

lol, I wanna see that...
One of the Falz Hands grabbed me once and threw me really, reeeeaaaally high into the air. I actually landed in front of the boss teleport and had to go through it again to get back to the battlefield...
Kinda doubt that was an actual attack, but it should be!!

Anyways, I wish they would add a boss like the one in PSO1 that appeared on the huge monitors and wandered across them... I really liked that one ^^
And I also really like all your ideas, terrell... O_O

[Seravi Edalborez]

I've also seen light rain on hard.

[Syklo]

I've also seen light rain on hard.
Man I must've been absurdly insanely holymuthafreaking (un)lucky not to see it on hard mode and only see it since the first time I fought QD on VH...

[SociableTyrannosaur]

hmmmm odd. Can't recall for certain on the nose swipes but in the 40+ times i fought QD on hard, not once have i seen her use light rain.
The light missiles, were there of course but not light rain.

I've seen the light rain more often on hard than on v hard. I've seen nothing new from QD on v hard.

The only thing I did see on vhard that was different on ANY boss was the snow fangs do seem to do an unpredictable of number of pounces on V hard while I haven't noticed on hard, but that's about it.

[Daiyousei]

I've seen light rain as well, before VH even came out, and it was one of the first things my friends warned me about Quartz.

[Soultrigger]

Even if they are, I don't think the bosses are tweaked enough/at all to even make them noticeably harder than their "easier" counterparts. To the player, it literally appears as if SEGA just tweaked a few numbers and called it a day. The irony is that subclass was released simultaneously with Very Hard. In many instances (dare I say, all?), bosses were relatively easier than their Hard mode counterparts without a subclass.

Other than lazy milking, my main gripe is that bosses have too much vulnerability. Ragne shouldn't be kissing the floor 90% of the fight, and you shouldn't be able to kill Zeshi in a single Chain Trigger. When was the last time you felt accomplished for beating a boss [as a party]? Things are designed such that you can clear it on your first try which, long-term speaking, becomes very dull quickly.

[Rien]

Tranzexia: Has a "gun" mode in addition to the regular "mech" and "car/tank" mode. Not much experience with this.

It's his cannon mode which either

a) Fires a railgun at you (it hits fast and hard D: )
or b) Jumps and fires a railgun at you (this was the first attack I came up against and was totally unprepared for. I literally jumped out of my chair)

[Cyclon]

I've seen the light rain more often on hard than on v hard. I've seen nothing new from QD on v hard.

The only thing I did see on vhard that was different on ANY boss was the snow fangs do seem to do an unpredictable of number of pounces on V hard while I haven't noticed on hard, but that's about it.
Okay, I could be wrong there, but I've been fighting Quartz dragon in hard mode again lately, and this attack seems to have disappeared. Same for the multipounce.

I can confirm it had it in hard mode before though. So either I'm just unlucky, or they made it very hard only at some point.

On topic, well I'd say Varder is a gimmick boss by itself. Also the interactions with bosses are far superior in this game, with destroyable parts, stuns, elemental weaknesses, jumping on their back, and such.
But yeah, otherwise, very little evolution through difficulty modes, and no real gimmick apart from Varder. Also, Dark falz(es) and maybe Varder excluded, they lack the epicness of most PSO bosses.
Overall though, I still like the boss battles of this game a lot more. Most are just so fun to fight.

Also I'm fine with dragons, as long as they're legitimate bosses individually, and not simply reskins of each other.

[Dnd]

Reading some posts here, I couldn't believe that sega would stealth nerf the QD's light rain to not fire off in hard-mode. but I just spent 40 mins on 2 dragons, without breaking anything bar the front horn (As I did in hard ages ago, and the light rain was used often) but.. nothing, not even the 4 hit combo with the horn when he/she is enraged.

The first it used that on me, I was completely unprepared for it and was sat thinking 'Holy crap, it can use grants o_O' as all I heard and saw were light based graphics hitting my char overhead ^^.

While I would be against the bosses apparent stealth nerfs, I suppose it gives the illusion to newer players that stuff gets harder the higher the difficulty level. Another lazy coding move by sega, but thats expected ha!

I've found all the main bosses (Screw rockbear/gwanadha as level bosses, lol) to be a really enjoyable fight. I love the idea of having parts of a boss you can break off to weaken it, or to get a weak spot open as for the most part, it brings (All be it, a small amount) some strategy to a boss fight instead of just sitting and clobbering it for 2 mins to get loot. As long as they continue to expand the methods of killing new bosses, I'll be happy

[Syklo]

I guess that explains my claims prior.

[Ezodagrom]

hmmmm odd. Can't recall for certain on the nose swipes but in the 40+ times i fought QD on hard, not once have i seen her use light rain.
The light missiles, were there of course but not light rain.
He definitely used to do the light rain in hard mode, a little after 37:15 he does both the 4 hit combo and the light rain:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWTHEIgvkxQ

The video was recorded back in September or so, maybe he was nerfed in hard mode?

[Tooks]

I'm still pretty new to the game (or rather I've been playing since open beta but never played past the desert levels) so i've only really seen a handful of bosses (and 2 more thanks to the recent event that set you against the giant hand things and the large robot tank). I don't dislike the boss fights here but I do find them, other than the first time you fight them, rather easy so far. Pretty much all the bosses i've fought so far are easily predictable and its easy to tell if they're about to unleash something thats going to one-shot my force and give me ample time to dodge it.

I suppose it'd be nice it the boss took into account what its fighting and adapted its skill set for that, rather than predictable attack patterns.

[Angelo]

I've said it before... but...

Sega should just Shamelessly rip off Capcom and give us giant De Rol Le in the form of the MH Sand Dragon fight.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCr9uCHwA7Y

Just replace the sand with a sewer and the boat with a space raft thing.

[ReaperTheAbsol]

I've said it before... but...

Sega should just Shamelessly rip off Capcom and give us giant De Rol Le in the form of the MH Sand Dragon fight.

Monster Hunter Tri Online - Jhen Mohran Sand Dragon 2/3 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCr9uCHwA7Y)

Just replace the sand with a sewer and the boat with a space raft thing.

You beat me to it. I was thinking along the same lines.

[DoubleCannon]

Wait what 3rd dragon confirmed!? Where!? any name given to it?

[Jakosifer]

Chrome Dragon.
Apparentely he's p jumpy.

[Rien]

He definitely used to do the light rain in hard mode, a little after 37:15 he does both the 4 hit combo and the light rain:

After checking (after a lot of fights), Quartz:


Will not use Light Rain/4-hit on Normal
Has extremely small chance of using Light Rain/4-hit on Hard (post-VH)
Will use Light Rain/4-hit with the same chance as pre-VH Hardmode Quartz.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

so in other words as higher difficulties come out, the monsters stay the same difficulty on the night setting and get further nerfed on the lower?


WTF

[Rien]

It only happened to Quartz

It's not like Varder's going to forget to fire his lasers, right?

[Jakosifer]

It only happened to Quartz

It's not like Varder's going to forget to fire his lasers, right?

It happened to the Banthers as well.

This actually started with the implementation of Normal Mode for all areas.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Actually (not that I've fought a lot of Normal/Hard Vardha), Vardha has an attack where he sweeps his blue core laser across the whole deck. I don't recall seeing this on non-VH.

Sometimes I've also seen Vol Dragon dig underground and transition right from stage 1 (normal) to stage 3 (full lava armor, with all the benefits that brings). Can't speak as to difficulty on this claim though. I fight too much lowbie Vol.

Also I'm kind of curious, what does inflicting poison status on Quartz actually do besides make him realize that's not raspberry jam on his wings? (Edit: Ah, so like a corrosive effect.)

[Jakosifer]

It greatly decreases the defensive properties of the infected part. Hence the "weakness" sound when you connect with an afflicted part. Can't remember, but I think that when you inflict the poison it has a stagger animation that can interrupt whatever it was doing. Or maybe that was just breaking a part, haven't fought QD in a while.

And yeah, I'm sure there are other major bosses affected by lower difficulty AI changes. its just Quartz and Banthers that really stand out.

[Daiyousei]

Actually (not that I've fought a lot of Normal/Hard Vardha), Vardha has an attack where he sweeps his blue core laser across the whole deck. I don't recall seeing this on non-VH.


I'm not sure about his blue core laser sweep, but it's very rare at least to me.

I've only seen it on VH because that's all I do now, I never saw him do that at all during pre-VH hard, and no one mentioned about it at all even after VH.

[gigawuts]

All of these moves existed pre-VH. The only move I have NOT seen before VH was made available is zexia's cannon mode, and obviously the ruins bosses.

[Syklo]

It greatly decreases the defensive properties of the infected part. Hence the "weakness" sound when you connect with an afflicted part. Can't remember, but I think that when you inflict the poison it has a stagger animation that can interrupt whatever it was doing. Or maybe that was just breaking a part, haven't fought QD in a while.

And yeah, I'm sure there are other major bosses affected by lower difficulty AI changes. its just Quartz and Banthers that really stand out.
Speaking of "weak bullet" SFX, how come that plays whenever hitting ragne's "Shield-like" head, yet it does less damage?

[MetalDude]

It's just the hit SFX it makes, not necessarily a weakness.

I think the only boss that really sees a difference from difficulty is Fang/Snow Banther; it's very obvious how much more aggressive it is. I feel like this may be the same case for Wolgahda but I've fought it very few times outside of VH.