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Kirine
Jan 22, 2013, 11:47 AM
After hunting and massacring numerous Rogbelts, a rogbelt finally dropped... an untekked twin guns!

We all know it is Yasminkov9000m but before I identify this delicious treasure, what is your opinion on element choice? Here's a few facts I know:

1) Identifying untekked items leads to a higher than normal elemental attribute (I am hoping to get 38+) on the chosen element.
2) Elemental increases damage well enough


However I am torn on what element to choose. I am swaying between Fire, Light, and Lightning... Some pros and cons:


Fire
*Rounded Elimination of Burning Ascension Elemental (R.E.B.A.E) - Good for Naberius Enemies both tundra and forest
*Good for fire weak bosses such as Banther, Banshee, Rockbear, etc.
*Good for insect type darkers, only El Dagan is affected by fire.


Lightning
*Anti Noise and Anomalous Static Elemental (A.N.A.S.E) - Good for mecha enemies and stone/aquatic type of darkers
*Most end-game MPA such as ruins and mines are weak to lightning.
*The hardest enemies in the game are lightning weak.


Light
*Anti Darker Elimination Materialistic Elemental (A.D.E.M.E) - Will eliminate all Darker enemies save for El Dagan (which is only fire weak, but one of the weaker darkers).
*Since Darkers appear everywhere, it has a major use in virtually all maps though has no use against native enemies.



With those weighing, what would you personally pick?

The Walrus
Jan 22, 2013, 11:50 AM
Light for end game, Fire for early game

Shadowth117
Jan 22, 2013, 11:55 AM
Light seems to be becoming what it was in PSU so I'd go with that usually. That or fire which is also pretty preferable.

Dnd
Jan 22, 2013, 11:55 AM
Firstly, congrats on the find, untekked aswell is pretty awesome heh.

I've been debating this myself for some time now - but for me it would be either fire or thunder, depending where you spend the most of your time in the game.

I say thunder > light, because you have fire for the first half of the darkers (and game, to be honest) and thunder hits mechs harder and the second half of the games darkers (and falz).

ALL rare darkers lose their light attribute weakness, so it diminishes its usefulness only slightly to put thunder ahead imo

gigawuts
Jan 22, 2013, 11:56 AM
The gains from the weak element are actually quite small. What matters more is the element percent, which buffs damage against everything.

Kirine
Jan 22, 2013, 12:07 PM
The gains from the weak element are actually quite small. What matters more is the element percent, which buffs damage against everything.

I am well aware of that, but when given the chance to choose an element of such a rare find, no matter how small the gain, one would like to make the most out of it...

I also have 2 weapons with:

Mizer Soul
Shoot IV
Ability III
Mutation I
Body I (though the other one is Power I)

I also have:

+30 Elemental Chance from excube shop.

I hope that I will succeed in adding all of it on. I plan to replace Body I with either Spirita Boost or Stamina Boost.

To complete it, I would like the best elemental should I succeed. What do you recommend?

Zyrusticae
Jan 22, 2013, 12:31 PM
By sheer dint of quantity, light wins by default. There is simply no other element in the game that has as many enemies weak to it (fire gets close, but still can't claim to have enemies weak against it in every level of the game).

Rien
Jan 22, 2013, 12:52 PM
Even Chrome Dragon, in the next area update, is light-weak.

DoubleCannon
Jan 22, 2013, 01:53 PM
^ Sweeeeet lol since I only tek light

Railkune
Jan 22, 2013, 02:16 PM
I've learned some good information today. So, light is essentially the way to go if you want your weapon to be an all rounder for most, if not all, of the games various locations. Needless to say Darkers are weakened to the element.

jooozek
Jan 22, 2013, 02:48 PM
Pick whatever and trade them for an excube, something better is bound to come out tomorrow.

Soultrigger
Jan 22, 2013, 03:52 PM
Light or Lightning. Fire would be good for TA, but let's be real: Gunners are one of the worst classes at TA so it'd be a moot gain.

Gunners are meant for single target burst DPS, so I would only pay attention to bosses that you fight (or will fight) regularly. There are a lot of bosses weak against Fire, but in general you would only benefit against kitties since Rockbears, De Malmoths, and Gwanas (for lightning) are still solo'able within seconds. Ragne is awkward to solo as Gunner to begin with, but is still rather easy if you're not going for time. Since kitties are most annoying for Gunners anyway due to multiple parts that are constantly moving, I wouldn't dedicate a weapon solely to them.

Light: Chrome Dragon, Falz (Hands, Elder, Hunar), Zesh, Wolgahada, Ragne, Gwana
Lightning: Falz (Hands, Elder, Hunar), Zesh, Wolgahda, Vardha, Mizer

I would suggest Light just because of Chrome Dragon, but the Lightning option is there if you like Fang Soul with Shock.

Btw, I don't quite understand your choices of affix material, for many reasons:
-untekking a weapon with 5 slots is uncommon, expanding to 5 slots is nearly impossible
-Mizer Soul doesn't boost transfer of Shoot IV, so you're gambling on Shoot IV even with two of them in the pool
-Shoot IV is +5 RATK from Shoot III, which is to say so insignificant you wouldn't notice the gain
-Ability III has a horrible transfer rate of 20% with 2 fodders

Unless you meant these were examples of past weapons you made, but Body/Power I?

Acel
Jan 23, 2013, 02:00 AM
So was it really the weapon you mentioned or just this?
http://pso2wiki.net/%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4

RedRaz0r
Jan 23, 2013, 02:03 AM
A little off topic, but how rare is that gun? I just got to Vhard and found one on my first forest run

suzaku0zero0
Jan 23, 2013, 02:10 AM
Lightning
*Anti Noise and Anomalous Static Elemental (A.N.A.S.E) - Good for mecha enemies and stone/aquatic type of darkers
*Most end-game MPA such as ruins and mines are weak to lightning.
*The hardest enemies in the game are lightning weak.




1st congrats

2nd the new darkers in Darker den are weak to light and Fire only, not lightning

therefore I choose light, cuz I hate darkers and hardest maps have more darkers then locals (darkers are locals in ruins)

jerrykun
May 12, 2013, 05:15 PM
Steps to determine what element you need
1.- Check the weapon type you got (on this case, it is a Twin Machine Gun)
2.- Check your weapon's Photon Arts (PAs), check their range, combos, and which ones your use the most (on this case, Twin Machine Guns excel in damage against single target/headshot).
3.- Weapon Potential (on this case, your gun has a mini Zero Range Advance weapon potential, making it better while at close range, and if you're in close range, you're against a single target or boss part)

Conclussion: Your best bet is Lightning.
Why? Because Lightning is the best element against the most armored monsters in the game, most of them have high HP/Armor and don't spawn in packs, so you gotta deal with them with single target spells.

Why not pick Light? Light is good against Darker INSECTS, darker insects spawn in packs of mobs and those are better dealt with a gunslash or launcher (Additional Bullet / Launcher PA). AND, in that case, I'd rather get fire, since fire could deal with insect darkers and naberius natives.

This doesn't apply if you're a B20 Gunner that just spams Elder Rebellion mindlessly, in that case get Light.

Coatl
May 12, 2013, 05:29 PM
There are very few enemies in AQ (the current end-game) that are darkers. I say go lightning to be useful in mines and desert, or fire to be useful in forest and tundra.

jooozek
May 12, 2013, 05:41 PM
i say nice necro

Zenobia
May 12, 2013, 07:26 PM
So was it really the weapon you mentioned or just this?
http://pso2wiki.net/%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4

She said Rogbelt bro and he is the only one that drops the 9k's the gun you linked drops from Aginis (Lv.31+).

BlankM
May 12, 2013, 08:55 PM
Even though this topic is a necro, I've been thinking light isn't so good as a weapon element nowadays.

While darkers are really common, they usually have such huge glaring weak spots that speccing to kill them faster isn't worth it. They simply die fast enough. Meanwhile beefy enemies in sanctum along with AQs are what really take the extra hits.

I would say the three optimal choices atm are:

Lightning
Fire
Dark

SakoHaruo
May 12, 2013, 09:41 PM
Fire and Lightning would be the smart thing to do if you just starting the game. you can create weapons of all element types later since Fire/Lightning will carry you through 90% of the game. hell, even Vol is weak to Dark. what we really need is more enemies that are weak to ice, no Dragons -_-

Alex305!
May 12, 2013, 09:46 PM
[SPOILER-BOX]Steps to determine what element you need
1.- Check the weapon type you got (on this case, it is a Twin Machine Gun)
2.- Check your weapon's Photon Arts (PAs), check their range, combos, and which ones your use the most (on this case, Twin Machine Guns excel in damage against single target/headshot).
3.- Weapon Potential (on this case, your gun has a mini Zero Range Advance weapon potential, making it better while at close range, and if you're in close range, you're against a single target or boss part)

Conclussion: Your best bet is Lightning.
Why? Because Lightning is the best element against the most armored monsters in the game, most of them have high HP/Armor and don't spawn in packs, so you gotta deal with them with single target spells.

Why not pick Light? Light is good against Darker INSECTS, darker insects spawn in packs of mobs and those are better dealt with a gunslash or launcher (Additional Bullet / Launcher PA). AND, in that case, I'd rather get fire, since fire could deal with insect darkers and naberius natives.

This doesn't apply if you're a B20 Gunner that just spams Elder Rebellion mindlessly, in that case get Light.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Nice necro. I guess this can help those wondering about elemental choices when untekked. This would be great for the guide section.

jerrykun
May 12, 2013, 09:57 PM
Nice necro. I guess this can help those wondering about elemental choices when untekked. This would be great for the guide section.

Thank you, I didn't mean to necro but I didn't see someone analyze weapon attack range/AOE and PAs, just the element of the weapon vs enemy, weapon type and potential is very important when you decide element imo.
I'll make a guide about this and other lil tidbits I've seen people have a hard time with.

Edit: Also, for people considering Dark for the new Sanctum, yes, Dark is a good element for Twin Machine Guns and other similar weapons with multiple hits, but I wouldn't take it on a super rare weapon like the Yasmin, I'd rather make a Lambda Radieagle with weapon potential +3, Dark, Poison3, and 50 Dark element (since it's cheap), dragons weak to dark are easy to poison and they have decent to high hp, helping you through Sanctum and Flying Continent Advance Quest.

Psycl0ne
May 13, 2013, 02:33 AM
I would say lightning, considering the update ahead which we will have a new beach area it only seems fair to assume enemy's will be weak to lightning.

Meji
May 13, 2013, 02:48 AM
Just Tekk it with wind. It's the ultimate element!

I mainly tekk the element depending on what the weapon looks like. Lightning for Jinrai, and Ice for Sacred Duster, etc.
I'd most likely go for Fire on the Yasminkov because I think it'd look radical, but that's just me.

UnLucky
May 13, 2013, 02:49 AM
I'd almost suggest a main ranged weapon to be lightning every time. Helps get the edge back against mechs, which don't always have easy weakpoints.

Fire/Lightning are great for all weapons against nearly all enemy types, but you can go for a Dark one specifically for dragons. Light is a decent choice if you only have one, though.

Zenobia
May 13, 2013, 03:25 AM
Fire or lightning considering you have almost all darkers weak not to 1 but 2 elements it's safe to go either fire or lightning.

Best bet is lightning though over all.

Mekhana
May 13, 2013, 06:22 AM
The only downside of light IMO is that the rare versions of darker bosses aren't weak to light.

Syklo
May 13, 2013, 06:26 AM
The best element is clearly wind, guys.
CLEARLY
'cuz zan rules.

Fire man. Suspect a new species of darkers sooner or later

starwhisper
May 13, 2013, 09:35 AM
Hello. Congratulations for your finding! I have been using thoses weapons for some month now.
Do not hesitate to max zero range advance 1&2 and to take the potential to lv.3. They will be deadly weapons, specially for bosses.

On topic:
My suggestion is to take lightning, specially if you often play advance quests. As mentioned before, most darker bosses are vulnerable to lightning, it also helps to kill machine ennemies.
If you do AQs you will see more and more enemies with corruption when your advance risk increases, the corruption spot is vulnerable to lightning and can be locked ! (But you don't really need lock with your new weapons: good positioning is the key).

It means that , even in a zone with no lightning vulnerable ennemies, the more advance risk you have, the more lightning sensitive ennemies there will be!
Enjoy.

DreXxiN
May 13, 2013, 12:06 PM
The gains from the weak element are actually quite small. What matters more is the element percent, which buffs damage against everything.

Wait, so if I'm getting this right, the % on your elemental weapon will do more damage to every type of monster despite being the correct element?

Z-0
May 13, 2013, 12:47 PM
Correct. Most of my weapons are fire or lightning (coz that's how I found them), and there's not been any problems attacking non-weak enemies. I tend to be stronger than those who use weak elements because my elements are 50.

UnLucky
May 13, 2013, 02:57 PM
If you do AQs you will see more and more enemies with corruption when your advance risk increases, the corruption spot is vulnerable to lightning and can be locked ! (But you don't really need lock with your new weapons: good positioning is the key).
Pretty sure they're weak to all elements, they just list Fire/Ice/Bolt first and run out of room.

Wait, so if I'm getting this right, the % on your elemental weapon will do more damage to every type of monster despite being the correct element?
Yeah, it's extra, elemental, damage. It will do more or less based on weakness or resistance, but not as much as going 30%->50%.

Using the correct element makes a 50% more like 60%, or an incorrect 50% element into 45%.

Link1275
May 13, 2013, 02:59 PM
Pretty sure they're weak to all elements, they just list Fire/Ice/Bolt first and run out of room.

This.

jerrykun
May 13, 2013, 11:17 PM
Elemental damage works a bit different on elemental weak spots:

- Hitting enemies on their elemental weak spot gives you 1.2 - 1.3 damage.
- Hitting enemies with head shots (aiming to the head) gives you 2.0 damage.
- Damage is doubled with all attributes and S-atk on spots like darker cores and infections.
- You get 1.0 or less damage on spots like the front of Kartargot or the side of Malmoths.
- You get 1.0 or less damage on dragon's crystal armors like Vol Dragon and Quartz Dragon, you can break those to reveal their elemental weakspot.

Practical use of attributes/attribute weakness magnification:
(This only applies to S-Atk and R-Atk)

- The most important thing about elemental attribute is to keep it as high as possible since you can deal more damage with high attribute compared to matching elemental weaknesses. If your weapon has very low elemental power, matching elemental weaknesses could help improve damage but not as high as increasing the elemental power.
- Damage increases with any attribute (even element vs same element), so damage will be greater on elemental weak spots using a weapon with element compared to a weapon without element.
- Damage is increased more using the corresponding element vs enemy elemental weakness.
- Magnification of the damage on elemental weak spots only takes the weapon's elemental power into account, instead of the whole weapon damage.
This is why elemental grinding is considered expensive and some people tend to ignore it because of the few benefits it gives, it is not a big difference in damage. However, this is not true if your target is Falz Hunar's sword (for example) since the elemental magnification it gives when hit with Light element is huge. These are the scenarios where you can hear a metallic noise when you hit, that sound lets you know that you are hitting an elemental weakspot with the appropriate element, giving you an increase of 1.2 - 1.3 damage.
- Elemental weakness magnification has been confirmed to be in the range of 1.2 - 1.3.

Conclusion: Pure Atk has a higher impact in damage output compared to attribute damage. Weapon elemental damage gives you a magnification of 1.2 - 1.3 damage (depending on weakness). At least make sure your weapon has an element, if it's low, make it match, if it's high it doesn't matter much if it matches or not. Making it match might give you a 10% increase or so, it isn't much, but every little bit counts as it multiplies with PAs, Skills, etc. Keep in mind that this 10% increase is for the element ONLY, not the whole weapon damage, that's why some people don't care about it.

For T-Atk:

- Weapon elemental damage for Cane and Talis are not included in the technique damage calculation.
- Technique's damage calculation is done only in the attribute damage calculation part, only the elemental weakspot magnification contributes to the final damage.



Using the correct element makes a 50% more like 60%, or an incorrect 50% element into 45%.

This is not true, there is no anti-attribute penalty on this game. If you hit a Dark monster with Dark attribute, it still deals the complete attribute damage, so an incorrect matched 50 elemental damage still does 50 elemental damage, not 45. However, like you said, using correct element would make your 50 hit as if it was 60. At the end it doesn't matter if you hit a fire monster with fire, you still deal the damage you paid for, but if you make it match, it is a win win situation.

Edit:
Source: pso2.swiki.jp

gigawuts
May 13, 2013, 11:49 PM
some enemies resist certain elements

gilnas for instance have light resistance

source: I did a fair amount of wand explosion crit damage testing on gilnas using six mace of adamans with the same element amount, one of each element

jerrykun
May 14, 2013, 01:37 AM
some enemies resist certain elements

gilnas for instance have light resistance

source: I did a fair amount of wand explosion crit damage testing on gilnas using six mace of adamans with the same element amount, one of each element

There is no anti-attribute penalty on this game. If you hit a Dark monster with Dark attribute, it still deals the complete attribute damage, so an incorrect matched 50 elemental damage still does 50 elemental damage, not 45. However, like you said, using correct element would make your 50 hit as if it was 60. At the end it doesn't matter if you hit a fire monster with fire, you still deal the damage you paid for, but if you make it match, it is a win win situation.

Wands work in a different way than other weapons, the weapon elemental damage they do is calculated with S-Atk and Wand Gear. Critical rate is increased with Dex and Shifta Critical (among other skills from other classes), those criticals scale with your S-Atk, not weapon elemental damage. Did you test the damage with Wand Gear?

Edit: some enemies have elemental resistances.

Bellion
May 14, 2013, 02:45 AM
The JP Wiki lists Vol Dragon having a .6 damage modifier to fire elemental attacks.
Quartz Dragon have a .5 damage modifier to everything except dark elemental attacks.
There's nothing on Dragon EX yet, but the elemental resistance IS there.
Certain mobs do have elemental resistances, but it's barely noticeable compared to the main Dragon type bosses.

It has a noticeable impact on techs but not striking/ranged attacks due to how elements are calculated into the damage formula for those two types of attacks.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%A8%E3%83%8D%E3%83%9F%E3%83%BC%E3% 83%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E5%80%8D%E7%8E%87

FireswordRus
May 14, 2013, 03:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsMQF7x2PM8

gigawuts
May 14, 2013, 08:39 AM
There is no enemy resistance, otherwise it would display on enemy information, there is no record on any JP site about enemy resistance either (they just have certain status ailment immunities, but not elemental resistance).

Wands work in a different way than other weapons, the weapon elemental damage they do is calculated with S-Atk and Wand Gear. Critical rate is increased with Dex and Shifta Critical (among other skills from other classes), those criticals scale with your S-Atk, not weapon elemental damage. Did you test the damage with Wand Gear?

I'm just going to come out and say it.

You have no idea what you're talking about and should stop.

jerrykun
May 14, 2013, 11:40 AM
The JP Wiki lists Vol Dragon having a .6 damage modifier to fire elemental attacks.
Quartz Dragon have a .5 damage modifier to everything except dark elemental attacks.
There's nothing on Dragon EX yet, but the elemental resistance IS there.
Certain mobs do have elemental resistances, but it's barely noticeable compared to the main Dragon type bosses.

It has a noticeable impact on techs but not striking/ranged attacks due to how elements are calculated into the damage formula for those two types of attacks.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%A8%E3%83%8D%E3%83%9F%E3%83%BC%E3% 83%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E5%80%8D%E7%8E%87

Like I said:
- You get 1.0 or less damage on dragon's crystal armors like Vol Dragon and Quartz Dragon (EX Dragon's Crown too)

Edit: It clearly seems you didn't read my last post because that's what I've been mumbling about all this time.

Bellion
May 14, 2013, 11:45 AM
Like I said:
- You get 1.0 or less damage on dragon's crystal armors like Vol Dragon and Quartz Dragon (EX Dragon's Crown too)

Edit: It clearly seems you didn't read my last post because that's what I've been mumbling about all this time.

Oh, I've read your post. The resistances still apply on their weakpoints and anywhere else on their body. Tell me how a Rafoie does on an infection point of a Vol Dragon.

jerrykun
May 14, 2013, 11:51 AM
I'm just going to come out and say it.

You have no idea what you're talking about and should stop.

I'm the only one posting substantial information with sources and analysis and this is the best you can come with to try to make me look bad? Your argument is invalid.

If you want to contribute and discuss, post screenshots and analysis of the tests you do, answer my question where I asked if you were using Wand Gear, and refrain from posting stuff based on mere game stories, we need facts, analysis and substantial information.

Also, this is the second post coming from you in a personal manner (I don't remember on what thread you were doing the same, but I remember it was you), I recommend you read this:

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205507

gigawuts
May 14, 2013, 11:52 AM
Sigh.

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2942580&postcount=1252

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2942622&postcount=1258

Xaeris
May 14, 2013, 11:56 AM
What Bellion is saying is true though; cast Rafoie on the infection point of a Vol or Quartz Dragon, and the damage will be unmistakably abysmal.

jerrykun
May 14, 2013, 12:16 PM
What Bellion is saying is true though; cast Rafoie on the infection point of a Vol or Quartz Dragon, and the damage will be unmistakably abysmal.

I never said it was not true... I just said he didn't read my post:

I'm gonna have to quote myself again:


- Damage is doubled with all attributes and S-atk on spots like darker cores and infections.

gigawuts
May 14, 2013, 12:25 PM
Someone shows up, cites a lack of something on a wiki as proof of its nonexistence.

Demands testing and proof when told the claim is false - despite the burden of proof lying in the initial claim, with the claimant never having actually obtained any proof or done any testing of their own whatsoever.

When told to stop saying things they don't know about, gets defensive and says to stop making posts in a personal manner.

Does not reply when everything they demanded was posted by the person they demanded it from 2 months ago, which also happens to prove their claim false.

Only on PSOW.

MetalDude
May 14, 2013, 12:49 PM
You quote yourself again yet you ignore that Bellion's point was that resistances are still accountable and especially more notable on a damage source that's already doubling your damage. The difference between Rafoie and anything else on it becomes significantly more visible on an infected Vol's core.

Also, giga's testing. There's literally nothing else to be said.

jerrykun
May 14, 2013, 05:41 PM
You quote yourself again yet you ignore that Bellion's point was that resistances are still accountable and especially more notable on a damage source that's already doubling your damage. The difference between Rafoie and anything else on it becomes significantly more visible on an infected Vol's core.

Also, giga's testing. There's literally nothing else to be said.

I'm not ignoring his point, I'm simply stating that I already posted that information (whether it was clear or not) and I'm backing it up quoting again.

About giga's tests, he didn't even mention if he was using wand gear or not. The tests include one damage sample for each element, ONE sample. How (mathematically) are you able to make an analysis with one sample. I use JP Wiki because people there backup their research with 100 samples minimum, posting their numbers and letting people discuss about it.



Someone shows up, cites a lack of something on a wiki as proof of its nonexistence.
Actually, I just properly translated what is on the wiki, it does exist.


Demands testing and proof when told the claim is false - despite the burden of proof lying in the initial claim, with the claimant never having actually obtained any proof or done any testing of their own whatsoever.

Ok, these are your tests, lets analyze them:


These numbers are wand explosions only.(explosions scale with gear, mate)
All crits, all on level 47 gilnatch (most on the same two that I let heal eachother, lol)
All wands are 30 element, +1 grind (now this is funny since it's calculated with S-Atk not T-Atk, and if you were testing techniques, why say wands are 30Element, +1 grind???)
te/fi (752 tatk)
fire 142
ice 142
lightning 188
wind 142
light 114
dark 142

te/fo (806 tatk)
fire 155
ice 155
lightning 204
wind 155
light 124
dark 155


When told to stop saying things they don't know about, gets defensive and says to stop making posts in a personal manner.

Can you read minds? I do know about this, otherwise I wouldn't be posting about it, but you seem rather sensitive to criticism, making you unable to answer to simple questions like "were you using wand gear during your tests?". Instead of simply posting your tests and discuss, you prefer to start telling people to stop and that they are wrong (it's like saying "shut up"), and when you feel criticized you just "sigh" and opt to finally post useful information in the thread.


Does not reply when everything they demanded was posted by the person they demanded it from 2 months ago, which also happens to prove their claim false.

This is what you posted after your tests in that thread:

TJAA doesn't apply either, nor does tech normal advance.

The reasoning is probably that wand explosions aren't techs.

I agree with you, but that's probably the reasoning.
You contradicted yourself since your tests are based on T-Atk and you later posted about wand explosions not being techs.


Only on PSOW.
http://youtu.be/ztVMib1T4T4

Edit: Edited quoting format for easier reading as requested.

gigawuts
May 14, 2013, 06:05 PM
Explain to me what these things are and their relations with eachother:
Crits
Wand explosion
TATK
Grind
Element

And this time please do proper quoting, that was a mess.

Bellion
May 14, 2013, 06:07 PM
I'm not ignoring his point, I'm simply stating that I already posted that information (whether it was clear or not) and I'm backing it up quoting again.

You stated before that elemental resistances did not exist. The elemental resistances apply to any area of an enemy, this is not limited to only the protective crystals of say... a Quartz Dragon. If you did know that Quartz Dragon had an elemental resistance of x2 against any element except dark, then you were very unclear and did not post anything about it at all. All I saw in your post was about their weakpoints and their armor having a 1.0 or less damage modifier to elements. You didn't mention anywhere about how resistances applied to every part you hit.

Using something like Grants on a Quartz Dragon's infection point would pretty much cancel out the bonus damage with its resistance, but there's still the elemental advantage on the infection point itself.

jerrykun
May 14, 2013, 08:41 PM
You stated before that elemental resistances did not exist. The elemental resistances apply to any area of an enemy, this is not limited to only the protective crystals of say... a Quartz Dragon. If you did know that Quartz Dragon had an elemental resistance of x2 against any element except dark, then you were very unclear and did not post anything about it at all. All I saw in your post was about their weakpoints and their armor having a 1.0 or less damage modifier to elements. You didn't mention anywhere about how resistances applied to every part you hit.

Using something like Grants on a Quartz Dragon's infection point would pretty much cancel out the bonus damage with its resistance, but there's still the elemental advantage on the infection point itself.

Yeah I wasn't very clear, I was talking about same attribute penalty. I edited my post to made it more clear.
These sites should clarify everything about enemy resistances, how they behave, how they are calculated, what enemy parts have elemental resists, and proper elemental damage calculations against elemental resistance / weakness magnification.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%A8%E3%83%8D%E3%83%9F%E3%83%BC%E3% 83%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E5%80%8D%E7%8E%87

http://wikiwiki.jp/pso2_hunter/?%C2%B0%C0%AD

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://ameblo.jp/mondlaterne/entry-11312071085.html&usg=ALkJrhjtCrNsvcNS0ectUIEwE2Kha05LwA#c1198169503 4


Explain to me what these things are and their relations with eachother:
Crits
Wand explosion
TATK
Grind
Element

And this time please do proper quoting, that was a mess.

No thanks, do your own research, I'm tired of working my a** to get mocked, insulted, and trolled. With 6.1k posts I doubt you lack that kind of knowledge about this game so I'm not gonna fall for your posts anymore. I still showed your tests were wrong, at the same time, I fixed the post where I said there wasn't enemy resistances because it wasn't very clear. By the way, I edited the quoting format in my last post, I don't want to hurt your feelings anymore.
I gotta say I was excited making a good PSO2 guide but I don't feel like continuing anymore, guess this is how the PSOW community pays. Suddenly I forgot I was in an online game forum...

peace out

gigawuts
May 14, 2013, 08:42 PM
I know exactly what they are. I don't think you do, that's the problem, and if you want to discuss something we need to be on the same page.

UnLucky
May 14, 2013, 09:06 PM
Actually, I just properly translated what is on the wiki, it does exist.Yes...... the wiki exists, and has information on it. If the wiki doesn't say if there are resistances (it does), does that mean there aren't any resistances (there are)?


Ok, these are your tests, lets analyze them:

(explosions scale with gear, mate)
(now this is funny since it's calculated with S-Atk not T-Atk, and if you were testing techniques, why say wands are 30Element, +1 grind???)
Uhm, no shit your attacks scale with gear? And double uhhh, wand explosions can only come from wand gear. So no SHIT he was using it. Wand Gear Explosions are based on T-Atk for their damage, are based on the wand's element for their type (which is purely elemental, unlike the bonus on melee weapons from their attribute), and GRINDING A WAND INCREASES BOTH S AND T-ATK


You contradicted yourself since your tests are based on T-Atk and you later posted about wand explosions not being techs.
They are T-Atk based Striking damage. This is a proven fact, go test it out yourself if you'd like.

jerrykun
May 14, 2013, 09:25 PM
Yes...... the wiki exists, and has information on it. If the wiki doesn't say if there are resistances (it does), does that mean there aren't any resistances (there are)?
http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%A8%E3%83%8D%E3%83%9F%E3%83%BC%E3% 83%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E5%80%8D%E7%8E%87
NO SHIT

Uhm, no shit your attacks scale with gear? And double uhhh, wand explosions can only come from wand gear. So no SHIT he was using it. Wand Gear Explosions are based on T-Atk for their damage, are based on the wand's element for their type (which is purely elemental, unlike the bonus on melee weapons from their attribute), and GRINDING A WAND INCREASES BOTH S AND T-ATK
WOW REALLY? NO SHIT SHERLOCK, anything else you would like to add to your deep analysis? I mean, we are all interested on what else you have to say


They are T-Atk based Striking damage. This is a proven fact, go test it out yourself if you'd like.
How about NO?

http://youtu.be/ztVMib1T4T4

Zyrusticae
May 14, 2013, 10:20 PM
So then I take it you have no issue with giga's testing and numbers, since we agree that it is all trivially obvious, and can logically conclude enemies do, in fact, have elemental resistances.
And just for the record, this is abundantly fucking obvious if you ever try to attack Dark Falz Elder with dark techniques. It's so fucking obvious that it makes me cry. Seriously, wtf do resistances have to apply to motherfucking weak points?! Pisses me right the fuck off. Fuck that noise, man.

Fuck that noise.