Petition to Sega.

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

Here is a Petition I made out of a thread on here for use to be active for the NA version of the games release. Show we care. If you have anything you want to add to it feel free and I will edit it in.

http://www.change.org/petitions/sega-of-japan-and-america-want-to-have-an-proper-international-support-for-phantasy-star-online-2

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

I would think more people would want to sign this, or have stuff to add to or edit it. Sad really.

[eharima]

lol...

[Mystil]

Because we know petitions never work for games. Especially SEGA.

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

Petitions got EA to change the ending of Masseffect. They have been used to to get The Last Story and XnoeBlade to the USA markets from Japan. So dont say they dont work. Your just being lazy.

[Mystil]

SEGA isn't EA. And we just know a lot about SEGA.

[Blackheart521]

Not to burst your bubble but your goal is only 100 people... 100 people doesn't show a company that it is worthwhile to fully support a project in a different country.

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

buy the looks of it I cant even get 10 people on here to sign it using 2 clicks of a mouse. Dont you think that is sad. And no one here signed it. Why does everyone in this community expect to get so much when they dont even post on there facebook page or show interest out side of this closed community? Your giving Sega a reason not to bother.

[blace]

Past petitions have garnered nothing, thus no one bothers with it.

[Coatl]

I was going to be a good pso2 citizen and bring about change but then I realized I have to BOTH make an account AND fill out my information.
2muchworkNApso2canrot

[Maronji]

Petitions got EA to change the ending of Masseffect. They have been used to to get The Last Story and XnoeBlade to the USA markets from Japan. So dont say they dont work. Your just being lazy.

See, petitions usually only work when the company cares (Mass Effect was a major IP here in the west that EA probably didn't want to fail so close to the end of the trilogy). If the developers speak your language, that helps. What doesn't help in this particular situation is that the developers belong to Sega of Japan, and, from what I gather, Sega of America and/or Europe are just their puppets/mind slaves, and appealing to Sega of Japan in English, at that, is an exercise in futility.

Them listening to this petition in its current form is about as likely to happen as me starting a petition to get more Super Robot Wars/Taisen games localized (I realize there's a LOT more red-tape involved on that side; that's beside the point).

Also, for the record, the ending(s) to Mass Effect 3 didn't really "change", per se. They just tacked some extra dressing on and called it a day.

EDIT: I may be one of the guys going over to the international servers, sure, but if Sega [i]really cared as much as you'd like us to think, don't you think international PSU wouldn't have bombed so badly (at least for PC/PS2)?

The only reason I have any hope for the international servers is main man Sakai, but even that can only go so far.

[Boney010]

Pfft, there was a petition for an english version of PSPo2:I with, like, 10k+ signatures. Sega never did anything lol.

[Mystil]

buy the looks of it I cant even get 10 people on here to sign it using 2 clicks of a mouse. Dont you think that is sad. And no one here signed it. Why does everyone in this community expect to get so much when they dont even post on there facebook page or show interest out side of this closed community? Your giving Sega a reason not to bother.

You're bringing this issue to a community that has been jaded badly by SEGA. For Blue Burst you may have gotten a million signatures, for PSODCv1, maybe 2 million. But after PSU? Forget it. Yes it is sad, but sad only on SEGA's part. Think of it as akin to going back to an ex, hoping things will work out, only to see that the same reason it didn't work out to begin with is still there.

Don't take this to heart and get all upset over it. We all were at one point, just like you, all enthusiastic over getting SEGA to do whats right for us. At each and every point in their history they have been so bold to prove us wrong over and over and over again. Like some sadistic obsession. Maybe they get off on BSing us, who knows. And for the JP servers, we're just along for the ride. I'm sure they don't like that we are enjoying the catering they are giving their kinfolk, but they can't deny us that content either, obviously.

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

PSU PC died because it was linked to the PS2. You could not update the game with out breaking it, thats why it had so many issues. But it is not about one petition, It is about a collective voice, and persistence. failing at one petition? make another. Lost Story was a good example of people pushing hard for it.

[Maronji]

PSU PC died because it was linked to the PS2. You could not update the game with out breaking it, thats why it had so many issues.

See, I have a problem with that statement.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about. Japan got by even before they axed PS2 support entirely. What does the PC version being linked with the PS2 version have to do with the PC/PS2 international servers dying an early, completely undignified death?

What you stated was a general design fault, not a fault of the international service itself. Try again.

EDIT: Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm trying to emphasize my points with all the formatting. I hope that making specific parts of the text stand out makes it easier to point out what I'm getting at.

Of course, it's hit and miss, but what can you do?

[lostinseganet]

An organized on line petition might work because this is free to play. They can only really make money if we buy stuff. So the key is to not buy stuff until you get what you want...

[Maronji]

They can only really make money if we buy stuff. So the key is to not buy stuff until you get what you want...

I can see your point, but the problem is that the video game industry comes with a large dose of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" Syndrome.

The point is that, half of the time, no matter what stance you take, you just can't win. An example worst-case scenario follows.

[spoiler-box]Support a localized release: Product quality and service fails to increase (and/or may even be worse than expected).

Support the original (aka Japanese) release or do not buy the game at all: Company figures that the franchise is no longer profitable and doesn't commit to bringing any more titles over to the west.[/spoiler-box]

You see? That example may be a bit extreme, but it's certainly plausible.

Case in point, it's not as simple as screaming "BOYCOTT! PETITION!" like some of you might think. At times, no matter what you do, you just perpetuate the problem. Because of the delicate position PSO2 is in, I feel that this is one of those "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. If we support the international servers, we may indeed be screwed once again. However, if we don't, we may never see another Phantasy Star game in the west. There's a reason why I'm awaiting judgment on the international servers until they've actually had a chance to exist, you know.

It's funny. I used to be the type to think (but not say) "We should feel lucky that we're getting it at all!", but nowadays, hearing someone say that just angers me because it's not that simple.

[eharima]

This whole thread so lulzy.
Look at it like this.

Budget.
Sega of JAPAN will have budgeted and financed this whole game development.
They will have forecasted complete repayment time lines for the JP server alone.

Sega of INTERNATIONAL, will have to cover any localisation, marketing and international server fees, any other profit is just a bonus.

This whole product is Sega Japans baby, they have done all the work and number crunching, secured the initial financing and target projections, the whole fucking development and have planned to make profit from the JP server alone.
They probably factored in 1% profits from international servers, but regardless of whether it makes money or flops, it doesn't matter at all because the whole plan is covered from within the JP circle.
The international server is just there to keep the gaijin off the JP server, shut up fan boys and make a bonus profit if at all.

They will send the server and client to get localized, and it will be what it will be.
Sega of japan does not care, and does not need the international server to make them money.

You are stupid to think that you can change something ALREADY 8 MONTHS BEHIND
We are already walking the same road again, the journey is already in progress
The international server will be what it will be, and will shut down when server fees once again become negative.
Sega of japan do not need international profit.
They already understand their own market and playerbase, and have factored this in along time ago.

Alol petition won't change shit. SOJ hold all the keys and the purse.
Go ahead, boycott the international server, you will just sink the ship faster.

Stop being entitled babies thinking that Sega owes you or that they need your dirty gaijin money.
You are being blinded by looking through the eyes of a player not the eyes of a foreign business producer.

I will be fucikng surprised if there are any official media monthly updates more than posts on the website from Edward@Sega lol.
Won't be any YouTube live streams with the localization team, I'll be surprised if any English update videos Wwwwww.

The international server will be what it will be.
You wont change this.

[Laxedrane]

To throw more onto Mar point, even before dropping PS2 support Sega figured out a way to continue to update the game with NEW models and items while the PS2 just used old ones in there place.

And by doing that sega also made a lot of their customers on that end decide to switch to pc to enjoy the newer models. Eventually making it so they can drop ps2 support completely.

Also saying this petition won't work becuase it's Sega of Japan and the petition will be in english just has to look at that successful campaign to get those RPGs over here on the Wii for Nintendo of Japan.

However that required a MASSIVE number of signatures and was picked up and talked about by the gaming community at large here in the states.(To the point that I am willing to make a safe bet there were more then a few percent of that petition with people who never intended to buy the game but wanted them to come state side for the sake of their fellow gamers.

If you want this to work you are going to need a massive number of signatures. Your own website possibly,(It helped the previous petition) and you need to get people talking about it. Get on your facebook and spread the words with all your PSO friends and keep it going. Get people on here to get their friends who refuse to play until the game comes out in english to sign.

The website will make your cause sound more serious and not just another petition that instantly makes so much of us roll our eyes. Get information, try to be informative.(on your site) Get videos of the pax english video and reviews on there. Get Japanese version gaming vids on there. Categorize them, make people think this game worth fussing to get. Links to psu blog and here would also help. If you get some people into the cause that go to conventions have everyone chip in to make simple business cards(Or print them out) that has your website on it that they can take out when they talk about it. Remember not to annoy but to be informative.

Being an annoyance and sounding like a spoiled child that just wants there way is the reason most of these just get glazed over. Going half assed is another. If your really serious about it, show us you are serious. Don't get caught up in the nay sayers, come in here and write or video tape a compelling speech. Do not defend what doesn't need to be defended. If someone criticizes the idea of it, ignore them. If someone criticizes your methods take that to heart.

[Kion]

I don't mind if Sega is slow to bring content or games to NA, it would mostly be nice to see some transparency. Sakai really went above and beyond while promoting PSO2 for the beta. They had press releases, and kept writing in the blog explaining what problems the team was facing, how they were approaching it and asking players to wait. It was really effective and people were more than willing to cooperate because they were being informed and we being let in on what was going on behind the scenes. It would really be nice to see SoA implement some of the same tactics. How far are they along in localization, how so they plan on implementing the pay structure, what's the status of their server's what's the tentative release date? If you can't even communicate that much to your customers in this era with easy access to your fan base with social media then you just suck at life hands down.

Also I'm finished with chapter 7/8 for the story patch. In two weeks I think I can get the matter board events finished and proceed to keep translating more and more of the game content from there. In a couple of months the game may even be completely translated to english before the NA version is even released. I really don't see much need to hold out hope for an NA version at all.

[Macman]

Only thing NA version would be better than a fully translated JP version is I wouldn't have to redownload a gig of files every little update. Good thing I don't care about their lame cliche-ridden story. :p

[gigawuts]

I love all these assertions that EN players all use the english patch.

I took this as an opportunity to learn some Japanese. And then I did. It was not hard. I've wanted to learn Japanese as well as a few other langauges for years, and this made it incredibly easy to learn kana. Now I'm p icking up bits of kanji as I go, and casually perusing a site for grammar lessons when I'm not otherwise occupied. Optimal? No. Easy? Yes. Fun? Yes.

Tell me more about how I should support the EN servers despite generally disliking the previous EN support, EN playerbase, and general EN experience.

[Macman]

Katakana and Hiragana are fine. Kanji can go fuck itself, though. I don't know how anyone can read that mess on a computer screen.

[eharima]

font size = 72 is the key

[Alenoir]

Katakana and Hiragana are fine. Kanji can go fuck itself, though. I don't know how anyone can read that mess on a computer screen.

Same way how Chinese are read on a computer screen? 'v'

On a more seriously note, yeah, kanji is very problematic for anyone not born and raised to learn them.

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

Atleast it shows we still care. I mean hell it does not take much time.

[gigawuts]

But I don't care.

The JP server covers my needs.

[The Walrus]

Would you join the NA servers if they IP banned errybody?

[gigawuts]

Maybe.

Or I might look into a proxy.

Or I might find something else to do~

[Midori Oku]

Would you join the NA servers if they IP banned errybody?

No! lol

I would just wait for Elder Scrolls Online, and be done with it. It may just be me, but I don't feel like going through the SoA bullshit again.

[UnLucky]

Haha, did anyone read the actual petition? Man it sounds so whiney and unprofessional.

"Please SEGA, please. -from me"

[DoubleCannon]

I signed to support :)

[Caledonia]

Okay, I am not going to sign this petition, mostly because I don't think it's particularly well written. I'm neither jaded nor cynical enough to believe a petition wouldn't work -just not this one.

I read an article on EuroGamer from Sakai (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-26-sega-explains-phantasy-star-online-2s-bold-free-to-play-strategy), and some of the language used suggests to me that actually, despite some posts here to the contrary, SEGA may need the international release to turn a profit:


By allowing a well made game like PSO to be accessible more people, we felt that we had a chance to teach people that 'This is what online RPGs are supposed to be like'.

We are seeking to create a business model that functions while still allowing PSO2 to remain as much of an enjoyable experience as possible,

I honestly think that Sega is the only maker that is willing to go this far. Even if we fail, if we can get people to say 'They were five years ahead of their time' then I'll have no regrets. I believe that there's meaning in the challenge itself

The language there suggests to me that they are prepared for a loss. In that case what developer wouldn't try to tap the western (and forgive me, but particularly the American {there are just so many more of you}) market?. -Especially considering a fan has shown the translation is possible in their spare time. Rebalancing/server structuring will take a while, but i expect the projected profit, even on a free-to-play model, in the western market would make that up again.

Rather than this petition, the best thing to do I think is ask (or indeed, petition) Edward on the SEGA forms what he can tell us. I realise he's a master spin-doctor, but the very fact that he's in charge of the PSO2 community suggests that there is a project to tell about. He ought to at least be able to tell us if the servers will be split America/Europe or one/a number of generic "Western" servers. Or how/if the gatcha system can/will be implemented. Or how many "updates" will be avaliable in the first release.

Or heck, just confirm the project is ongoing/on schedule/not.

[Mike]

That article is from April of last year, before the game started taking money and players started spending money like there was no tomorrow on PSO2's gambling.

EDIT: And just to rip on Eurogamer a bit, PSO2's F2P system not bold. It's standard F2P crap.

[gigawuts]

Seriously. This is "what RPG's should be like"?

That's a buzzword/PR article.

[Caledonia]

That article is from April of last year, before the game started taking money and players started spending money like there was no tomorrow on PSO2's gambling.

EDIT: And just to rip on Eurogamer a bit, PSO2's F2P system not bold. It's standard F2P crap.

I realise it's an old article. But then, considering that and the population difference between Japan and America (not even factoring Europe) if there is a profit on the JP side it's not illogical to assume they would turn one on the western side (and yes, I know it's not only Japanese players on the JP server, but we're talking at least 200,000,000 more Americans than Japanese in population alone, arguing that down for age/whatever that's still an extra million people (at least) to buy AC over extended periods of time)

And even then, extrapolating Sakai's words out further (which I shouldn't do, but I am a fangirl so forgive me) if there is "meaning in the challenge" then there must be meaning in the challenge of getting the model to work internationally as well. Ergo, the same ethic that got the JP version released and all the interplay/communication between the designers, developers and players should be extended to us.

Hence why I think a petition could work, or why we should at least be asking more questions of SEGA through the official channels (which is just the forums, but it's what they've given us)

I don't really rate eurogamer too highly either, but I was looking for that particular interview and that was the first copy i found

[Totori]

Petitions got EA to change the ending of Masseffect. They have been used to to get The Last Story and XnoeBlade to the USA markets from Japan. So dont say they dont work. Your just being lazy.

Petitions didn't make that happen, it was the Fans that kept complaining about Mass Effect 3. Everyone didn't like how the ending had gone. For those two Wii games, I don't know the story behind Xenoblade, but TLS was already in planing because the director of XSEED games loved it.

I have never seen where a Petition has changed or made a big decision for a company anytime at all.

[DjDragoon]

Sure I'll sign. I'm all for players being vocal about things they're passionate about.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

"proper international support"? wtf does that even mean? You should probably learn to express your thoughts at a level beyond a 12 year old before you try writing a petition.

[blace]

I really don't understand how this petition has 20 supporters when it's so poorly worded. On top of it all, 100 signatures? If you want to make it stick, you'll need a larger number and a constructive tone before this will even make an impact on Sega as a whole.

[Noc Codez]

Who said there not 12? Lol sounds like a whiny lil brat wrote it.. Not going to sign that sorry

[Menasthos]

Haha, did anyone read the actual petition? Man it sounds so whiney and unprofessional.

"Please SEGA, please. -from me"Roflmao even me can type in better formal english :-D
Forget we sign this junk bro :-D (or even at all any similar one)

[Retehi]

*opens mouth to say something*

. . .

*doesn't*

[ReaperTheAbsol]

I'm sorry, but the petition is poorly written. Instead of complaining you should be suggesting methods or ways that the international release can be supported "properly" as you say, in detail. Petitions that look nice or more well-thought out are probably not as likely to be overlooked by your peers.

However, your goal of 100 signatures won't make your "voice" heard. Petitions that have tens of thousands of voices have more power, but even those figures can be overlooked if the product or movement was not worth a damn to begin with by the company, producer or any other party directly involved. Needless to say, you're pretty much stressing out over the inevitable.

I'll give you credit for making an effort, but unfortunately I cannot sign your petition.