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Vashyron
Jan 25, 2013, 03:16 PM
http://pso2blog.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/advance-quests-initial-information (http://pso2blog.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/advance-quests-initial-information/)

Edit: http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-february-2013-tidbits/

Anduril
Jan 25, 2013, 03:24 PM
Sheeesh. 500K to play a mission? SEGA really is trying to create more meseta sinks. Other than that, sounds interesting, if the drops are good.

terrell707
Jan 25, 2013, 03:25 PM
Idk whether to be excited for the sake of something new or depressed because I'm poor.

Bellion
Jan 25, 2013, 03:25 PM
500k per person to enter an advanced quest? Well, there's our new money sink.

Z-0
Jan 25, 2013, 03:28 PM
mmmm, and my elder rifle just ate 54 quests worth. gonna have to make some money then (ps: also probably another reason to try and make shops more enticing for players to buy)

from the sounds of it, you need to play the quests a few times to get better drop anyway (to make the enemies 51+), so you will be spending a lot of meseta each week lol

MetalDude
Jan 25, 2013, 03:36 PM
I mean, if it actually pays off and the rates aren't complete trash with the risk being high, cool.

Z-0
Jan 25, 2013, 03:37 PM
^ sega

what do you /think/ will happen? you'll actually get items?

HA.

MetalDude
Jan 25, 2013, 03:37 PM
: c

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 03:39 PM
So it's meseta scratch.

Pay meseta in a highly restricted fashion, get more enemies.

Most people will only do this for the better droprates, but some of us prefer the style of map (assuming it's like the den).

I hope we get diet advanced quests :/

Z-0
Jan 25, 2013, 03:40 PM
you think sega will give you exciting and fun content free of charge and easily accessible?

man you guys are SO delusional

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 03:41 PM
I keep trying out games I used to like, but they've been loaded with F2P mechanics too.

There's nothing left. Anywhere.

Somebody get working on a time machine, please.

Z-0
Jan 25, 2013, 03:42 PM
yep

f2p is ruining gaming, but not the profits from it

so nothing will happen

Jyasupa
Jan 25, 2013, 03:50 PM
I'm so excited for these advanced quests you guys, you don't even know. It's pretty obvious that enemies at higher levels have better drop rates for items like ten stars and stuff than lower level ones. And capsules at a rate of 50k meseta, need 10 capsules really isn't that much meseta if you think about it, especially with the new TA quest. It'll only take like... two days to get XDDD This is seriously gunna be the best, most ground breaking update pso2 has had yet. Good job, SOJ!

NoiseHERO
Jan 25, 2013, 03:51 PM
Poor with a small team:

Step 1: Do all your tacos...

Step 2: Spend all your taco for that day money on 1 advanced quest.

Step 3: Get nothing but "rank up"

Step 4: repeat for like 3-5 more days and most likely have Step 3's results:

Step 5: Keep repeating till you have Decent rank for a few days.

Step 6: still get nothing because spending a week to rank up for a few quests is probably just as bad as hunting one 10* rare for a week.

Step 7: Profit = that leftover 100k from each day that'll be one more advanced quest every 5 days... That'll have whatever rank that resets every week where you still won't get shiit.



Perfect time wasting F2P game system!

Vashyron
Jan 25, 2013, 03:53 PM
I already sense the problem with the Risk up reward mechanic with random people. I mean in PSU GBR was free runs and still people felt the need to boot your ass if you didn't have the max amount.

Now here we basically have this "costly" GBR. Feels to me you'll have trouble finding accepting people outside of "close friends" if you don't get in on it right away on the weekly reset.



..Either way from the details shown so far this is not what I was hoping with advance quests.

Jyasupa
Jan 25, 2013, 03:54 PM
Poor with a small team:

Step 1: Do all your tacos...

Step 2: Spend all your taco for that day money on 1 advanced quest.

Step 3: Get nothing but "rank up"

Step 4: repeat for like 3-5 more days and most likely have Step 3's results:

Step 5: Keep repeating till you have Decent rank for a few days.

Step 6: still get nothing because spending a week to rank up for a few quests is probably just as bad as hunting one 10* rare for a week.

Step 7: Profit = that leftover 100k from each day that'll be one more advanced quest every 5 days... That'll have whatever rank that resets every week where you still won't get shiit.



Perfect time wasting F2P game system!

Ummm, sorry, I don't think you know what you're talking about. I really disagree with step three, because enemy drop rate definitely isn't a problem in this game. People need to stop complaining about the RNG system, it's definitely better than most F2P games around, if you really think about it. The bitching about the grinding system, too, is also unwarranted. If you compare it to psu, at least our weapons don't break, and the drop rates for grinders is really high.

NoiseHERO
Jan 25, 2013, 03:57 PM
Ummm, sorry, I don't think you know what you're talking about. I really disagree with step three, because enemy drop rate definitely isn't a problem in this game. People need to stop complaining about the RNG system, it's definitely better than most F2P games around, if you really think about it. The bitching about the grinding system, too, is also unwarranted. If you compare it to psu, at least our weapons don't break, and the drop rates for grinders is really high.

Why are you so pro ;o;

Z-0
Jan 25, 2013, 03:58 PM
rng is fine, only spent my 27m to upgrade my elder rifle from +8 to +10 and fail ability III 4s I think he's right

oh btw grinders are not that common unless you like to run in circles for hours lol

Xaeris
Jan 25, 2013, 04:00 PM
I'm legitimately wowed, Sega. I really thought the addition of these advanced quests would be a brilliant step in the right direction for this game that you couldn't possibly muck up. Damn, was I wrong.

Chik'Tikka
Jan 25, 2013, 04:00 PM
<--- coins "AQ" abbreviation+^_^+

Jyasupa
Jan 25, 2013, 04:03 PM
rng is fine, only spent my 27m to upgrade my elder rifle from +8 to +10 and fail ability III 4s I think he's right

oh btw grinders are not that common unless you like to run in circles for hours lol

27m is chump change. I think the costs would have been less if you bought grind protectors or got those anti fail capsule things lol. You can easily get them from fun scratch, you know. I always save up my FUN for like a week and then I always get AT LEAST six. And I dunno about you, but grinders always seem to be a guaranteed drop for me.... Maybe you just have bad luck, definitely not the RNG systems fault.

NoiseHERO
Jan 25, 2013, 04:04 PM
I really thought the addition of these advanced quests would be a brilliant step in the right direction for this game that you couldn't possibly muck up. Damn, was I wrong.

These exact words, are what I've been talking about for months.

They do it with EVERY aspect of the game.

They've been doing it since day 1.

Every idea they tease us about that sounds awesome, and the closer it gets here, the more strings there are attached it.

And worse part is, they "muck it up" on purpose.

MetalDude
Jan 25, 2013, 04:04 PM
Ummm, sorry, I don't think you know what you're talking about. I really disagree with step three, because enemy drop rate definitely isn't a problem in this game. People need to stop complaining about the RNG system, it's definitely better than most F2P games around, if you really think about it. The bitching about the grinding system, too, is also unwarranted. If you compare it to psu, at least our weapons don't break, and the drop rates for grinders is really high.

Man, where's this dummy been. We've already been over that yes, PSU's system is shit, but PSO2's is like slightly better shit. It still sucks.

Z-0
Jan 25, 2013, 04:05 PM
27m is chump change. I think the costs would have been less if you bought grind protectors or got those anti fail capsule things lol. You can easily get them from fun scratch, you know. I always save up my FUN for like a week and then I always get AT LEAST six. And I dunno about you, but grinders always seem to be a guaranteed drop for me.... Maybe you just have bad luck, definitely not the RNG systems fault.
I think you're missing the point.

I did buy them and use them.

And I know 27m is chump change, but I've only had shop for like 20 days so I haven't really had the chance to abuse it well just yet.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 04:06 PM
I'm legitimately wowed, Sega. I really thought the addition of these advanced quests would be a brilliant step in the right direction for this game that you couldn't possibly muck up. Damn, was I wrong.

On a non sarcastic note, this 100%.

I was hoping for short, caves EMQ-sized maps similar to either the den or pso1's maps. Basically, just a structured non-RNG and non-timed map with decent rewards that still spawns rare enemies.

That's all I want (next to some grinding changes). And it's apparently not happening.

This game will never have a feature that is not dependent on the RNG or paying an absurd amount of ingame money or some "small" amount of real life money (repeatedly, mind, 5 dollars or something comparable isn't cheap when you need to do it every run).

So much for Sega being bold and innovative, it's just more of the same. Unfortunately, it sells very well, so it's not about to go away. This is something that gamers as a whole will need to get tired of on their own for it to not be as profitable to do, and by then game devs will be too stuck in their ways for it ever to stop.

Ah well. This is pretty much 3d movies. Fun the first few times, irritating every other time, but that won't mean it'll stop.

Ezodagrom
Jan 25, 2013, 04:08 PM
Some Advance Quests require 10 Capsules per party member -It’s not clear if this means all Advance Quests or not.. The line in question translates to “Quests requiring 10 capsules per 1 person are known to exist.”, which doesn’t say for definite either way.Now to hope that there's quests that may require less...

Jyasupa
Jan 25, 2013, 04:10 PM
Man, where's this dummy been. We've already been over that yes, PSU's system is shit, but PSO2's is like slightly better shit. It still sucks.

Uhh, no... PSU system was the only shit, and PSO2 system definitely isn't. Sega gives us so many opportunities to get +10, and I've mentioned them in my previous post. Grind protectors and everything else are so easy to come by, so if you aren't getting your 10 star items and stuff to +10, you just have bad luck.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 04:11 PM
Please marry me Jyasupa.

NoiseHERO
Jan 25, 2013, 04:11 PM
there's only gonna be 3 now...

assuming forest might cost the least

Maybe if enough people are like "wait what the fuck?" they'll cave and nerf the prices.

Otherwise I'd rather save my TACO money.

Also giga hands off, that's my OTW D<

Xaeris
Jan 25, 2013, 04:12 PM
I'm not even really mad, per se. I'm just...disappointed. Sega's already made some questionable decisions regarding PSO2's mechanics and gameplay, but seeing their responses put me at ease and gave me confidence that they at least understood our grievances. They nerfed the hell out of the exp curve when it became clear that 99.9% of us weren't having that ****, they made it impossible for a rare to drop without element %, etc.

But this...this just makes me wonder if they understand anything.

Vashyron
Jan 25, 2013, 04:13 PM
Now to hope that there's quests that may require less...

Pfft this obviously means to expect to find some quests costing 100 in the future! :wacko:

MetalDude
Jan 25, 2013, 04:13 PM
Uhh, no... PSU system was the only shit, and PSO2 system definitely isn't. Sega gives us so many opportunities to get +10, and I've mentioned them in my previous post. Grind protectors and everything else are so easy to come by, so if you aren't getting your 10 star items and stuff to +10, you just have bad luck.

Play PSP2 sometime. The grinding system is infinitely (pun intended) better and made way more sense. Grinding is such a stupid gamble in this game and there's been multiple threads discussing really poor turnouts with grinding. Quit bullshitting.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 04:14 PM
Pfft this obviously means to expect to find some quests costing 100 in the future! :wacko:

If people don't throw a shitstorm right fucking now you can expect exactly that :wacko:

If nobody complains, they'll assume they can gouge even more.

Cyron Tanryoku
Jan 25, 2013, 04:17 PM
this screams stupid

Jyasupa
Jan 25, 2013, 04:17 PM
Play PSP2 sometime. The grinding system is infinitely (pun intended) better and made way more sense. Grinding is such a stupid gamble in this game and there's been multiple threads discussing really poor turnouts with grinding. Quit bullshitting.

I did play PSP2 AND PSP2i, and PSO2 is definitely better. I spend less time and meseta grinding my weapons here, and even finding weapons on PSO2 is easier... The drop rate and RNG system in PSO2 is definitely a step up or two from PSP2, and if you don't like it you can just stop playing. And like I said before, if you think of grinding as a gamble, you just have bad luck.

NoiseHERO
Jan 25, 2013, 04:17 PM
If people don't throw a shitstorm right fucking now you can expect exactly that :wacko:

If nobody complains, they'll assume they can gouge even more.

This.

Or they'll ignore it anyway like that time the entire world was like "what? no! make 10*s tradeable!"

Enforcer MKV
Jan 25, 2013, 04:23 PM
Well, we'll see what happens. I hope they do "something." Even if it's just make it possible for these to drop from other places.

...Oh, there's an idea, why not make them rewards for EMs, in addition to the ways they already have listed? I think that'd be a bit more fair.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 04:23 PM
I'm not even really mad, per se. I'm just...disappointed. Sega's already made some questionable decisions regarding PSO2's mechanics and gameplay, but seeing their responses put me at ease and gave me confidence that they at least understood our grievances. They nerfed the hell out of the exp curve when it became clear that 99.9% of us weren't having that ****, they made it impossible for a rare to drop without element %, etc.

But this...this just makes me wonder if they understand anything.

Well, that's the thing. Let's say players expect a feature of X cost (time, real money, game money, whatever).

They'll add one with X and a half.

When players whine enough, they'll reduce it to X and say "See? We listen!"

Meanwhile, an even harsher feature with X * 2 is in the works.

Then half the players will say "Stop whining! They just fixed the last feature!' (These will be people who are ONLY NOW getting to the first feature, who are a difficulty behind all the content updates, and were never actually exposed to the BS they're commenting on [quite a few of those types are on this forum]). The other half of the players will either call it BS and throw a shitfit, or call it BS and not throw a shitfit.

Then there's the small minority that's genuinely not bothered. That's Meji. He's cool.

Z-0
Jan 25, 2013, 04:24 PM
Just make them random rewards for actually clearing quests (any of them, TAs, EQs, Free Fields, Arks), to promote completing them instead of just MPA'ing.

Each planet gives its respective data, so if you play on Naberius you'll get the Forest AQ items, etc etc.

Enforcer MKV
Jan 25, 2013, 04:25 PM
Just make them random rewards for actually clearing quests (any of them, TAs, EQs, Free Fields, Arks), to promote completing them instead of just MPA'ing.

Each planet gives its respective data, so if you play on Naberius you'll get the Forest AQ items, etc etc.

Yeah, I actually thought of that a few seconds after I posted. That's a good idea, as well.

Shadowth117
Jan 25, 2013, 04:27 PM
Lol... this seems interesting.

inb4 AC Advance capsule quests.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 04:28 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they stop giving out grinders and start giving out capsules like candy instead.

I also expect CO's to hand them out on a daily basis, but maybe not.

Ezodagrom
Jan 25, 2013, 04:29 PM
Well, we'll see what happens. I hope they do "something." Even if it's just make it possible for these to drop from other places.

...Oh, there's an idea, why not make them rewards for EMs, in addition to the ways they already have listed? I think that'd be a bit more fair.
Or make them as rewards for S ranking VH quests, like how we got PA fragments in PSU? ^^;

NoiseHERO
Jan 25, 2013, 04:29 PM
Well, that's the thing. Let's say players expect a feature of X cost (time, real money, game money, whatever).

They'll add one with X and a half.

When players whine enough, they'll reduce it to X and say "See? We listen!"

Meanwhile, an even harsher feature with X * 2 is in the works.

Then half the players will say "Stop whining! They just fixed the last feature!' (These will be people who are ONLY NOW getting to the first feature, who are a difficulty behind all the content updates, and were never actually exposed to the BS they're commenting on [quite a few of those types are on this forum]). The other half of the players will either call it BS and throw a shitfit, or call it BS and not throw a shitfit.

Then there's the small minority that's genuinely not bothered. That's Meji. He's cool.

I used to be like meji once...

not giving a shiit about a company's bad moves...

BUT NOT WITH PSO2.

Also everyone on this forum should think like giga.

Heat Haze
Jan 25, 2013, 04:29 PM
I'm just surprised they didn't make Advanced Capsules an AC Gacha item at this point.

Eh, not too amazed or disappointed at this either way. Will have to see how it plays out in practice before I praise or complain about it.

Jakosifer
Jan 25, 2013, 04:38 PM
We should all procreate

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 04:42 PM
This is why everyone should just play Infinity instead.

Or Battletoads.

OR DDR.
They should play http://www.abload.de/img/ai2kog.gif

Enforcer MKV
Jan 25, 2013, 04:43 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they stop giving out grinders and start giving out capsules like candy instead.

I also expect CO's to hand them out on a daily basis, but maybe not.

....I hope they do that, honestly. I think I'd have more fun doing the Advanced Quests, even if my weapons aren't ground... >_>

jooozek
Jan 25, 2013, 04:43 PM
500k for one try? Is someone pants on head retarded over there?

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 04:44 PM
Oh Sega you never disappoint me in your fucking up. Thank god this game is f2p if they fuck up too much just walk away.

Xaeris
Jan 25, 2013, 04:47 PM
I figure someone over there finally brought up the fact that there's far more meseta being introduced into the economy than is being removed. So, they came up with some money sinks. Mission a-****ing-ccomplished, guys.

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 04:49 PM
They tried to make the game too similar to MMOs with none of the systems can come with the MMOs. The inflation was fated.

Cyclon
Jan 25, 2013, 04:52 PM
People, seriously... isn't this a windmill you are all fighting with such passion?

Anyway, yup, sounds bad all right. Now to see if these missions will actually be worth the trouble.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 04:53 PM
I figure someone over there finally brought up the fact that there's far more meseta being introduced into the economy than is being removed. So, they came up with some money sinks. Mission a-****ing-ccomplished, guys.

If there was a free version of this there wouldn't even be an issue. Like, at all, I'd welcome this 100%. Completely and totally.

There DOES need to be sinks, and the rich players need to be enticed into draining their cash. This rank thing sounds like a great way to do it.

But this is sounding like the exact kind of content most legacy players came here looking for.

Holding this sort of content hostage is not the way to get things done.

If they would release a free version of this without the rank system...I'd be quite happy.

Xaeris
Jan 25, 2013, 04:54 PM
People, seriously... isn't this a windmill you are all fighting with such passion?


[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/XS5LK.gif[/spoiler-box]

Shadowth117
Jan 25, 2013, 04:54 PM
1. Sega announces new feature
2. Public outcry about it being game breaking
3. Feature comes out and people play anyway

AzureBlaze
Jan 25, 2013, 04:59 PM
Seems pricey to me.

What if you die on one?
Is it like the TA where your only option is "retire" & lose all your investment?
Is it a gimmick to sell scape dolls because it seems like no one ever buys them?

Risk Rank Up 7 Days:
With how costly these things are, the strategy here would HAVE to consist of hoarding up loads of these capsules to be able to spam the mission/s as much as possible in the 7 day risk up period. Because with the way stuff tends to roll around here...you're super unlikely to get anything good at least until a few times in. If you have to take time away to earn more money or spam areas for capsules...you'll miss days in your 7 day period so you would have to just be prepared well in advance for the risk up. So it would take coordination with friends/teams on who is doing their 7 days & when.

Risky runs:
You COULDNT run this with strangers. You better have either a team, or trusted friends. Or else as soon as you pay to get in (because it splits the cost among the people) Trollololol leader boots you. You know they wont turn off boot-ability for just this quest type.

Ways to turn this around a bit:
Like mentioned make the capsules prizes for NOT just MPA spam
Make them prizes in FUN & pay scratch to get people to think FUN is...fun...and to get them to spend
Make the capsules sell-able in player shops so people who don't like this type of quest can help people who do
Make capsules prizes for...anything everyone's ignoring
Dispense a capsule a month/week/whatever to anyone who has premium to make it look more premium

Just make 'em gettable in a way that doesn't force everyone to worship those chinese meseta hax farmers (they're so plentiful, you know their system is working really well & they're raking in the cash for meseta) or Klotho or somehow turning the game into a chore "In order to have fun/whatever you MUST X, Y, Z & AB every single day...."

Its still too early to judge it, there doesn't seem to be enough details yet. I'm really curious though because it could go either way.

Xaelouse
Jan 25, 2013, 05:00 PM
1. Sega announces new feature
2. Public outcry about it being game breaking
3. Feature comes out and people play anyway

yup. All you guys can wish for is whether the advance quests are worth it or not. If not...

MetalDude
Jan 25, 2013, 05:01 PM
If not, back to clone hunting and saving money/grinders for when they eventually go through with that grinder requirement change.

Zyrusticae
Jan 25, 2013, 05:02 PM
Sheesh, you guys sure like to jump to conclusions.

We don't know how many capsules drop in an actual run per advance quest, nor do you know how much better the drop rate is in the quests themselves (for all you know it may be guaranteed to get at least one 10* per run).

Personally, I think it's ingenious. This is a surefire way to dramatically reduce the meseta supply and keep prices low, while giving players some nifty extra content at the same time. I'm gonna wait an' see how it goes first.

NoiseHERO
Jan 25, 2013, 05:04 PM
1. This game is terrible.
2. We play it anyway because it's free

Fixed.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 05:06 PM
Sheesh, you guys sure like to jump to conclusions.

We don't know how many capsules drop in an actual run per advance quest, nor do you know how much better the drop rate is in the quests themselves (for all you know it may be guaranteed to get at least one 10* per run).

Personally, I think it's ingenious. This is a surefire way to dramatically reduce the meseta supply and keep prices low, while giving players some nifty extra content at the same time. I'm gonna wait an' see how it goes first.

And this is why they can still do this stuff.

Because half the fans don't have access to half the game, yet defend it anyway. Saying "Relax, for all you know you'll get a 10* every run."

Jesus.

Zyrusticae
Jan 25, 2013, 05:07 PM
Yeah, whatever. I'm more concerned about them going through on survey feedback and actually making the rest of the game more entertaining.

I don't need them to add a new game mode, just fix the existing ones.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 05:14 PM
Yeah, whatever. I'm more concerned about them going through on survey feedback and actually making the rest of the game more entertaining.

I don't need them to add a new game mode, just fix the existing ones.

Relax, I'm sure everything will be totally fine and every run will get 11*'s in ultimate. 10*'s will even be tradable!

Because 15*'s will exist and they won't be tradable and they'll need 11 grinders and they'll have 500% bonuses from +10ing and the latents will be 6% instead of 3%.

Opy
Jan 25, 2013, 05:18 PM
I understood it to mean that there could be a quest worth 10 tokens. In other words, maybe there are quests that cost 5 tokens, or 15 tokens.

Coatl
Jan 25, 2013, 05:19 PM
Sheesh, you guys sure like to jump to conclusions.

We don't know how many capsules drop in an actual run per advance quest, nor do you know how much better the drop rate is in the quests themselves (for all you know it may be guaranteed to get at least one 10* per run).

Personally, I think it's ingenious. This is a surefire way to dramatically reduce the meseta supply and keep prices low, while giving players some nifty extra content at the same time. I'm gonna wait an' see how it goes first.

This.

It sounds terrible at first but to be honest 500k meseta is not that much meseta. I'm more concerned if I'll get my 500k meseta's worth in doing an advanced quest run. That's the biggest issue in PSO2. Money isn't hard to come by but you sure won't be happy spending it on doodoo.

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 05:20 PM
And this is why they can still do this stuff.

Because half the fans don't have access to half the game, yet defend it anyway. Saying "Relax, for all you know you'll get a 10* every run."

Jesus.
So your saying the PSO2 fans are terrible consumers?
I'm sure it will blow up in their faces though. But really with the people playing this game I am certain things getting bad was bound to happen.

GuardianGirth
Jan 25, 2013, 05:27 PM
Jyasupa, shut up.

Either you're a troll or you're just delusional. Comparing this game to PSU's grinding system as a way to prove a point is like spraying perfume on a pile of dog shit. No matter how pretty it may smell for a few seconds, you're still gonna realize its dog shit.

PSU's grinding was laughable. The great distinction in this game and PSO1&2 is that while some rares were stupidly hard to find, the vast majority of them weren't as stupid as they are now. Especially not 10 stars. And i'm going to stroke my e penis and just say flat out that you don't have more experience in PSO games than me so don't come at me with that garbage.

Again, this is the price we all pay for a game that can be free if you so choose.

Coatl
Jan 25, 2013, 05:28 PM
The concerns the Japanese players have had are pretty aligned with the ones we've had, this is including the EXP requirement nerfs. If this is really as terrible as it sounds, they'll make it less terrible.

The only reason we are all freaking out right now is because we assume the drop rates are not going to be worth the 500k put into it. Let's see how it unfolds and THEN start panicking.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 05:28 PM
So your saying the PSO2 fans are terrible consumers?
I'm sure it will blow up in their faces though. But really with the people playing this game I am certain things getting bad was bound to happen.

Yes and no.

Sega fans being terrible is only tangentially related to this.

This is how F2P games generally function. A portion of the playerbase defends content they haven't even accessed yet, etc. what I already just said.

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 05:31 PM
I seen a few that work quite the opposite. DFO and Tera come to mind. Hell Dragon Nest also works fine. I just think if Sega really wanted to make money off F2P they need to use the whales more effectively. They have the art team to make enough special looking things to sell they could make millions. League also is a good pointer in how to make that work as well.

redroses
Jan 25, 2013, 05:34 PM
T^T I am so bad at making money, got to save it for my outfits/accessories. Looking awesome has its price, asdfghjkl.

Hm, if these quests end up giving a guaranteed 10* every run, I guess they would be worth it, and maybe 5 capsules a run, and a rare enemy every run. Actually, the rich players should just invite everybody, all the problems fixed!

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 05:36 PM
I seen a few that work quite the opposite. DFO and Tera come to mind. Hell Dragon Nest also works fine. I just think if Sega really wanted to make money off F2P they need to use the whales more effectively. They have the art team to make enough special looking things to sell they could make millions. League also is a good pointer in how to make that work as well.

Oh yeah for sure, I actually like TF2's model in a lot of ways too.

There's a number of F2P games that don't charge you for new skilltrees, or to reset, or all that. I wish they'd do that here, but they're opting to gain revenue off every single little tiny thing you could possibly ever want to do in this game.

My hope is they wise up in the west. If they do, I'll switch. If they don't, I might get a new hobby. Or keep playing. I dunno. I need something to do~

Coatl
Jan 25, 2013, 05:37 PM
Seeing as how rich players nowadays just seems to be the players that TA on a daily basis I don't think I'll have the funds to support all my poverty striken non-TAing non-shop owning friends.

Socks to them. >:B

jooozek
Jan 25, 2013, 05:51 PM
I'd need to hit myself really hard in the head to even consider considering considering giving this shit drip-feed of higher level enemies a whirl. Guaranteed 10*? Higher drop rates? Man, I wish I could be as delusional.

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 05:53 PM
Oh yeah for sure, I actually like TF2's model in a lot of ways too.

There's a number of F2P games that don't charge you for new skilltrees, or to reset, or all that. I wish they'd do that here, but they're opting to gain revenue off every single little tiny thing you could possibly ever want to do in this game.

My hope is they wise up in the west. If they do, I'll switch. If they don't, I might get a new hobby. Or keep playing. I dunno. I need something to do~

No doubt.
How I have it it's this and Tera for me so when they game looks like it's going south I won't feel too bad to dump it. Seeing how Sega is taking time with the US version gives some pause maybe they will actually westernize it. If done right the US version would be better and the irony would be awesome.

Jyasupa
Jan 25, 2013, 06:25 PM
Sheesh, you guys sure like to jump to conclusions.

We don't know how many capsules drop in an actual run per advance quest, nor do you know how much better the drop rate is in the quests themselves (for all you know it may be guaranteed to get at least one 10* per run).

Personally, I think it's ingenious. This is a surefire way to dramatically reduce the meseta supply and keep prices low, while giving players some nifty extra content at the same time. I'm gonna wait an' see how it goes first.

Yes, finally! Someone with a brain in this thread! This idea is definitely ingenious, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I don't know why all these posters are saying SEGA is gunna mess this up. It's like they think SOJ doesn't listen to the needs of players. If this doesn't directly answer to the needs of the player, they'll just make it better later on.

The Walrus
Jan 25, 2013, 06:41 PM
God this is so stupid. And of course Zyru loves it as expected

NoiseHERO
Jan 25, 2013, 06:43 PM
Oh mei gaad oh my god oh my giyad... Yutan I'm crying... LOOOOOL

Shadowth117
Jan 25, 2013, 06:51 PM
No doubt.
How I have it it's this and Tera for me so when they game looks like it's going south I won't feel too bad to dump it. Seeing how Sega is taking time with the US version gives some pause maybe they will actually westernize it. If done right the US version would be better and the irony would be awesome.

Dude this made me laugh so hard. If you haven't considered a career in comedy you should... you were being sarcastic right?

Anyways, I find it amazing that so many of you are complaining about something that could be potentially very cool when it doesn't even exist in the current version of the game yet. Nobody here has any idea whatsoever how it will turn out so to call it the apocalypse of PSO2 or the most spectacular thing ever seems kind of dumb at this point. Not to mention its not something anyone is forcing you to do in the first place even if you do hate it utterly. As of the current moment, its not even a system that somewhat relates directly (see: DIRECTLY) to real world money.

NoiseHERO
Jan 25, 2013, 06:55 PM
No doubt.
How I have it it's this and Tera for me so when they game looks like it's going south I won't feel too bad to dump it. Seeing how Sega is taking time with the US version gives some pause maybe they will actually westernize it. If done right the US version would be better and the irony would be awesome.

I basically said this in one of those "love/hate the enlgish version!" Threads.

Basically you guys should be hoping the us/eu version is BETTER. As an example PSU didn't have arkz cash.

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 06:56 PM
Now your cynicism is quite amusing.
Rather than spazing out why not just step way if they game is no longer palatable?

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 07:00 PM
Honestly, my biggest hope is they use PSO2 EN as a testing bed for changes they're considering.

That would be absolutely ideal.

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 07:03 PM
I basically said this in one of those "love/hate the enlgish version!" Threads.

Basically you guys should be hoping the us/eu version is BETTER. As an example PSU didn't have arkz cash.
Nah I said it would be amusing if it was so I could laugh at you lot.

Really since all my enjoyment is not hanging on this game if it goes south in either region I won't give a shit. http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/forum/images/smilies/Kappa.png

Jyasupa
Jan 25, 2013, 07:07 PM
ITT: people who have no faith in SEGA. Now people are complaining about the western version... I'm positive SOA will release PSO2 so that it'll have the same content as the JP version at release. Their silence is clearly them keeping the EN version in wraps and surprising us all with an imminent release. We just have to wait and see.

Anduril
Jan 25, 2013, 07:17 PM
Both sides of the argument remind me of a story my grandma used to tell me whenever I started complaining about something; the long and the short of it was there was a farmer with two kids; the farmer decided to buy a donkey, and when they heard about it one of the kids started saying how he was going to make a saddle and ride the donkey around; the other child started yelling at the sibling saying that they were stupid because they were going to hurt the donkey like that and break its back. The farmer got sick and tired of hearing them arguing and smacked both kids and said (roughly) "Stop arguing you idiots! We don't even have the damned donkey yet!"

Railkune
Jan 25, 2013, 07:34 PM
Both sides of the argument remind me of a story my grandma used to tell me whenever I started complaining about something; the long and the short of it was there was a farmer with two kids; the farmer decided to buy a donkey, and when they heard about it one of the kids started saying how he was going to make a saddle and ride the donkey around; the other child started yelling at the sibling saying that they were stupid because they were going to hurt the donkey like that and break its back. The farmer got sick and tired of hearing them arguing and smacked both kids and said (roughly) "Stop arguing you idiots! We don't even have the damned donkey yet!"

I love that the story not only touches my feels, it so perfectly relates to this situation.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 07:37 PM
I love how it advocates for child abuse and dismisses healthy discourse.

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 07:43 PM
Who in their right mind would have 100% faith in Sega anyway? :P

The Walrus
Jan 25, 2013, 07:44 PM
Oh lol

Anduril
Jan 25, 2013, 07:53 PM
I love how it advocates for child abuse and dismisses healthy discourse.
The difference between healthy discourse and what these threads end up becoming is that, like most internet based conversations, you end up having people at the two extremes arguing for the sake of being right and dismissing the other side as idiots for not thinking like them.
My own personal opinion on things like this is to hold out judgement(either for or against them) until we know more about the quests. Pointless speculation just causes bigger rifts in the community and can never really bring about any change since legitimate complaints and worries get buried beneath the flaming.

ShinMaruku
Jan 25, 2013, 07:56 PM
I'd hold judgement if Sega was competent at this junction I'd be wary and start my discussion from that point.

DoubleCannon
Jan 25, 2013, 07:57 PM
wow.. i have 3.5mil most ive had was 6mil and ppl saying 27mil is chump change. get out of my house! lol.. anyways 50k wont stay, theres gonna be rage just like when we got level 50 and you needed like almost 200mil total exp lol. that changed fast right?

Ezodagrom
Jan 25, 2013, 08:01 PM
My own personal opinion on things like this is to hold out judgement(either for or against them) until we know more about the quests.
I completely agree with this, we should wait until we get to know more about these quests. When they arrive, if they turn out to be unfairly annoying (like rare equipment still being too rare, capsules being too uncommon), then I say go all out with complaining. ^^;

Kirine
Jan 25, 2013, 08:11 PM
I do not understand...

... You say you are getting angry at a playerbase that defends content they cannot access...

... Yet you are complaining about a content that isn't even released...

It may not cost 500,000 per mission to do this. Think logically: what point is it to have a capsule that sells for 50,000 each when all the mission costs 500,000? Why not just make it 500,000 to begin with?

Most likely the 10 capsule cost is at the end when you are fully ranked up and ranking there costs less capsules.

I personally will wait for it to be released. If at that time the content is terrible, then I am sure with enough complaints, it will be changed. Sega has done that many times.

You complaining about an unreleased content makes you no different than the ones you dislike. However you are free to vent your worried frustration on how bad the content "becomes" but you should keep the personal insults out of your argument and be objective in your approach. The same should be applied to the other side.


As for drop rates: any item that drops in normal and hard drops like candy in VH... So I have reason to believe that it will apply to the end levels though not necessarily to 10 stars. If rare enemies spawn more frequently, then sure!

Enforcer MKV
Jan 25, 2013, 08:23 PM
We don't even have the damned donkey yet!"

I applaud you sir. This.

Though I don't really think the drops and such will be worth the price of admission..

hey, not worth arguing with anyone over it. :lol:

Shiyo
Jan 25, 2013, 08:24 PM
They want to take money out of the economy, right? They think there's too much money floating around, right? At least I assume from this insane 500k/entry price...

Then why the hell did they just add 3 more tacos, that's another ~200k a day if the amount of money in the game is a problem? Especially since the majority of everyone's money >>COMES FROM TACOS<<...meaning they can easily control the money entering the game by reducing taco rewards, but instead they add another 3 quests? Just mind blowing.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 09:03 PM
The difference between healthy discourse and what these threads end up becoming is that, like most internet based conversations, you end up having people at the two extremes arguing for the sake of being right and dismissing the other side as idiots for not thinking like them.
My own personal opinion on things like this is to hold out judgement(either for or against them) until we know more about the quests. Pointless speculation just causes bigger rifts in the community and can never really bring about any change since legitimate complaints and worries get buried beneath the flaming.
Then ignore the people who argue to appear right instead of argue to find out what's correct.

A few people being assholes/idiots/both should not and does not preclude anyone else from discussing something (Especially not when it's something like this).


I do not understand...

... You say you are getting angry at a playerbase that defends content they cannot access...

... Yet you are complaining about a content that isn't even released...

It may not cost 500,000 per mission to do this. Think logically: what point is it to have a capsule that sells for 50,000 each when all the mission costs 500,000? Why not just make it 500,000 to begin with?

Most likely the 10 capsule cost is at the end when you are fully ranked up and ranking there costs less capsules.

I personally will wait for it to be released. If at that time the content is terrible, then I am sure with enough complaints, it will be changed. Sega has done that many times.

You complaining about an unreleased content makes you no different than the ones you dislike. However you are free to vent your worried frustration on how bad the content "becomes" but you should keep the personal insults out of your argument and be objective in your approach. The same should be applied to the other side.


As for drop rates: any item that drops in normal and hard drops like candy in VH... So I have reason to believe that it will apply to the end levels though not necessarily to 10 stars. If rare enemies spawn more frequently, then sure!

I wouldn't think I'd have to explain that there's a difference between a person who hasn't experienced content defending said content from people who have experienced it with little more reasoning than "IT'S FINE" versus people disliking the concept of content you have to pay e-money to access at release, which invariably means real money costs and raised e-money costs, but apparently I do.

Criminy.

Kirine
Jan 25, 2013, 09:16 PM
Then ignore the people who argue to appear right instead of argue to find out what's correct.

A few people being assholes/idiots/both should not and does not preclude anyone else from discussing something (Especially not when it's something like this).



I wouldn't think I'd have to explain that there's a difference between a person who hasn't experienced content defending said content from people who have experienced it with little more reasoning than "IT'S FINE" versus people disliking the concept of content you have to pay e-money to access at release, which invariably means real money costs and raised e-money costs, but apparently I do.

Criminy.


That's the point I do not understand. You're not paying actual money to access the content, but rather virtual money.

If the money in your game is not used for better equipments or fashion, what is it used for? It's not like you need to eat or sleep in the game to maintain.

Yes, I know it takes time to make money, but the application to it is quite limited, and there's no one forcing you to play it.

However, I will leave all final judgment when it is released and I have hands on what it does.

Magus_84
Jan 25, 2013, 09:17 PM
If they drastically slash the meseta costs for grinding...this'd still be ugly, but slightly less so.

Here's hoping they have a way to get capsules by doing things other than spamming daily TACOs to buy them with meseta.

The Walrus
Jan 25, 2013, 09:20 PM
Well it does say you can get capsules in the advance quests themselves

Ezodagrom
Jan 25, 2013, 09:21 PM
If they drastically slash the meseta costs for grinding...this'd still be ugly, but slightly less so.

Here's hoping they have a way to get capsules by doing things other than spamming daily TACOs to buy them with meseta.
They would have to slash the costs for affixing too. ^^;

Capsules will be possible to obtain in the advance quests themselves, no idea how many of them can be obtained though, depending on how many of them can be obtained, maybe the costs of advanced quests may not be so steep (it's SEGA though, I wouldn't be surprised with only getting 1 capsule per run).

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 09:22 PM
That's the point I do not understand. You're not paying actual money to access the content, but rather virtual money.

If the money in your game is not used for better equipments or fashion, what is it used for? It's not like you need to eat or sleep in the game to maintain.

Yes, I know it takes time to make money, but the application to it is quite limited, and there's no one forcing you to play it.

However, I will leave all final judgment when it is released and I have hands on what it does.

Virtual money and real money are directly interchangeable via unofficial and official RMT methods.

That is, player shops, and AC scratch.

I know of a number of players that do scratch specifically to sell the items because they wouldn't have meseta otherwise.

The time = money thing is another thing, yes. But that isn't the only issue. They've been allowing the value of meseta to continuously fall, and now an entire branch of content players have been clamoring for is going to have an emoney price tag. They will listen to player requests and...ready? Let you skip the emoney bit at the expense of some amount of AC. I would bet real money on this. If you aren't expecting it yet, then you haven't seen it happen enough yet, either in this game or other games.

I'm sure it might be tons of fun when it's released. If it's like the darker's den, it'll be great. I just wouldn't want the timer on it (Which I figure will stay, but that's not too important to me). Yet, instead of fixing the economy's core issues - affixing and grinding being utterly broken as both a mechanic AND a money sink - they're going to put a price tag on the content they KNOW players want.

It's a slimy move.

Syklo
Jan 25, 2013, 09:23 PM
It may not cost 500,000 per mission to do this. Think logically: what point is it to have a capsule that sells for 50,000 each when all the mission costs 500,000? Why not just make it 500,000 to begin with?


Read again: capsules can be sourced from the AQs themselves (and maybe others). Hence you can just purchase the remainder.

And no one here has thought about potential AQ-related client orders, repeatable, daily, or not, that may reward with such capsules.

Ezodagrom
Jan 25, 2013, 09:28 PM
Bumped article was updated, there's going to be an update to the pyroxene shop:



Pyroxene (Magic Stones) Shop Update


New magic stones “Fire Pyroxene Agni” and “Wind Pyroxene Vayu”
Trivia: Agni is the Hindu deity for Fire and Vayu is the Hindu deity for Air/Wind
There are also new weapons in this shop that require other “weapons” as materials to be traded in.
Pyroxene Shop will have a weapon called Lava Seeker*, a different colored version of Messer Agate.
“Messer Agate” and “Fire Pyroxene Agni” can be used as exchange materials.
The process seems to be, trade a weapon you don’t want to get a different version of that weapon.
Trade Iku-tachi to get Kaku-tachi.
(Certain Weapon) + (Element Pyroxene) = Another Weapon.

Syklo
Jan 25, 2013, 09:32 PM
Bumped article was updated, there's going to be an update to the pyroxene shop:


[/LIST]
Yellow-blue cruel flougas, here i come!
EDIT: wait, doesn't this mean i'll lose my abilities and stuff?

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 09:33 PM
Excellent. If they're doing most of the reskins as actual upgraded/alternate forms of a weapon, and not requiring you to hunt them instead...maybe they are listening.

Makes me wonder what they're takething away in exchange for this.

Good news either way!

Magus_84
Jan 25, 2013, 09:37 PM
Well it does say you can get capsules in the advance quests themselves

Yeah, but at that point you still need to have enough meseta to get into the loop in the first place.

I really like PSU's PA Fragment system. Finish a high-level mission, get a fragment.

Maybe something like that, though making the capsules tradeable turns it into a money farm. And making them non-tradeable kinda screws people over that like to help their friends (but they could just run missions with their friends).

Say your first three S-ranks on different VH Arks Quests per day each give a capsule, with subsequent S-Rank completions on any VH mission that day giving a 50% chance at a capsule.

It'd give even the flat broke a chance at building up a stockpile, and reward people for playing the game as opposed to playing the market.

Make Hard and Normal give Capsule fragments, and suddenly you've got a reason to play lowbies/alt classes.

Make fragments tradeable, but not completed capsules. Gives an income source for lowbies that they can get just by playing the game. Without having to get insanely lucky.

Syklo
Jan 25, 2013, 09:39 PM
Yeah, but at that point you still need to have enough meseta to get into the loop in the first place.

I really like PSU's PA Fragment system. Finish a high-level mission, get a fragment.

Maybe something like that, though making the capsules tradeable turns it into a money farm. And making them non-tradeable kinda screws people over that like to help their friends (but they could just run missions with their friends).

Say your first three S-ranks on different VH Arks Quests per day each give a capsule, with subsequent S-Rank completions on any VH mission that day giving a 50% chance at a capsule.

It'd give even the flat broke a chance at building up a stockpile, and reward people for playing the game as opposed to playing the market.

Make Hard and Normal give Capsule fragments, and suddenly you've got a reason to play lowbies/alt classes.

Make fragments tradeable, but not completed capsules. Gives an income source for lowbies that they can get just by playing the game. Without having to get insanely lucky.
IMO: genius

Ezodagrom
Jan 25, 2013, 09:40 PM
Excellent. If they're doing most of the reskins as actual upgraded/alternate forms of a weapon, and not requiring you to hunt them instead...maybe they are listening.

Makes me wonder what they're takething away in exchange for this.

Good news either way!
Watch the new pyroxenes only dropping in the advance quests. :\

Kirine
Jan 25, 2013, 09:55 PM
Virtual money and real money are directly interchangeable via unofficial and official RMT methods.

That is, player shops, and AC scratch.

I know of a number of players that do scratch specifically to sell the items because they wouldn't have meseta otherwise.

The time = money thing is another thing, yes. But that isn't the only issue. They've been allowing the value of meseta to continuously fall, and now an entire branch of content players have been clamoring for is going to have an emoney price tag. They will listen to player requests and...ready? Let you skip the emoney bit at the expense of some amount of AC. I would bet real money on this. If you aren't expecting it yet, then you haven't seen it happen enough yet, either in this game or other games.

I'm sure it might be tons of fun when it's released. If it's like the darker's den, it'll be great. I just wouldn't want the timer on it (Which I figure will stay, but that's not too important to me). Yet, instead of fixing the economy's core issues - affixing and grinding being utterly broken as both a mechanic AND a money sink - they're going to put a price tag on the content they KNOW players want.

It's a slimy move.


Oh, I understand do agree that putting a high tag on a game content is pretty weird, but it's really hard to balance it.

For a money sink to work, it has to be alluring.

Also, buying AC and selling AC items doesn't generate more income, it just shuffles it around. It isn't getting rid of meseta when you sell that pretty accessory for 10 million.

There's been a few suggestion on how to reduce meseta... namely meseta scratch that can increase the amount of accessories you can wear or use meseta to buy FUN or grinder protect -1 through a scratch system.

However, the same ideas presented were subsequently shotdown by other players because players felt that selling slots or other items would devalue the item and unfair for those to risk it on RNG.

It's a rather risky thing and even I do not know how to make money sinks without upsetting a part of the community.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 10:02 PM
Make grinders drop less often

Raise grind fee and require fewer grinders.

Inflation fixed.

edit: (this was a bit short and off topic so I should add to it)

The goal of the AC scratch -> make money thing isn't to reduce the currency in circulation. At all. It's to sell AC. Sega doesn't care about the economy, if anything it wants it to be in bad shape so more people buy AC items to make meseta.

But, maybe they're realizing this is simply not going to be sustainable. I'd be interested to know how many JP players have already moved on. It's the nature of games like these to be essentially fad-of-the-month games. Every time a new F2P game comes out, a horde of players moves in, gets tired of the game, and moves on to another F2P game. Just like that. It's become a strange paradox, because they don't want to play the current game, but they instead move on to another one with the same BS mechanics. I figure they're out to play loads of content that's new to them - which is understandable.

This is an issue ALL F2P games suffer from - some less than others. The successful ones are already established, though. There's no uprooting them any more than you can uproot WoW. So the solution is to treat this less like a traditional F2P game, which will fail in due time like all of its competition, and more like something new. That's what I'd call "bold."

Laxedrane
Jan 25, 2013, 10:05 PM
Sometimes when I read your post gigawuts, I wonder if you lost your ability to smile.

Maybe that's why your a cast?

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 10:09 PM
Sometimes when I read your post gigawuts, I wonder if you lost your ability to smile.

Maybe that's why your a cast?

Beep boop.

Laxedrane
Jan 25, 2013, 10:12 PM
Beep boop.

Is it sad I read that with the sound my cell phone makes when it's dieing in my head>.>

Xaeris
Jan 25, 2013, 10:33 PM
I think it's a bit much to say they want the economy to be in bad shape. They want incentives for people to buy AC, no doubt, but I think the people responsible for the game understand that the people who play for free provide an invaluable foundation. After all, if small percentage of people subsidizing the game for everyone else have no one to fill their multi parties, no one to buy their items in the shop, and no one to just all around play with, then they themselves will stop playing. So, I don't think they're deliberately trying to put so much strain on players to force them into a pay or leave situation.

I think it's just that they're bad at economics. Attribute not to malice what you can to ineptitude and all that.

gigawuts
Jan 25, 2013, 10:45 PM
Well, yeah. It's less that it was intentional from the get go, and more that it was set up this way between multiple things and they had little reason to prevent it from happening. They had to have known it would result in inflation, nobody is that inept.

Well, then again, you should never speak in terms of absolutes...

Still, they have to have realized some time since VH TA CO's what's been going on, and just didn't try to stop it. They also have to have realized it's resulting in the raising values of items, and that players would be boosting their wallets with AC scratch. Even they can make that kind of leap of business logic.

Laxedrane
Jan 25, 2013, 10:48 PM
I think it's a bit much to say they want the economy to be in bad shape. They want incentives for people to buy AC, no doubt, but I think the people responsible for the game understand that the people who play for free provide an invaluable foundation. After all, if small percentage of people subsidizing the game for everyone else have no one to fill their multi parties, no one to buy their items in the shop, and no one to just all around play with, then they themselves will stop playing. So, I don't think they're deliberately trying to put so much strain on players to force them into a pay or leave situation.

I think it's just that they're bad at economics. Attribute not to malice what you can to ineptitude and all that.

I always thought they hated inflation becuase Pso1 economy collapsed due to it(Meseta was essentially worthless outside of meds and really low grade rares.) and PSU economy hit the ceiling with certain rares being worth more then max meseta in players eyes to the point they had to introduce gold bars.

GreenArcher
Jan 26, 2013, 03:16 AM
Holy shit I couldn't bear to read anymore after the first 99 posts, but this, this so hard


Sheesh, you guys sure like to jump to conclusions.

We don't know how many capsules drop in an actual run per advance quest, nor do you know how much better the drop rate is in the quests themselves

Personally, I think it's ingenious. This is a surefire way to dramatically reduce the meseta supply and keep prices low

Everyone seems to ignore the info that says capsules drop in the quest. And I was just saying to a friend the other day, inflation is happening at such a huge rate. People can now generate 750,000 meseta per day per character.....so much money is injected to the economy with the TA client orders.

Xaeris
Jan 26, 2013, 03:45 AM
I don't know what game you've been playing that when you hear, "you'll be at the mercy of the RNG," you feel reassured.

Alenoir
Jan 26, 2013, 04:14 AM
I don't know what game you've been playing that when you hear, "you'll be at the mercy of the RNG," you feel reassured.

Just about every other free MMORPGs out there.

I will probably never understand all the whining about the RNG, coming from games that had it worst.

Xaeris
Jan 26, 2013, 04:34 AM
You deserve better from your entertainment than, "it could be worse."

Rob2003ert
Jan 26, 2013, 04:48 AM
Looks like Advanced Quest will give some nice stuff, assuming these new stones drop there.[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/JbRnJuA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AXIgn7B.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Price of tradable rares is shooting up. Thank God I have most of the ones I'm interested in already.

Syklo
Jan 26, 2013, 04:59 AM
Looks like Advanced Quest will give some nice stuff, assuming these new stones drop there.[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/JbRnJuA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AXIgn7B.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
Price of tradable rares is shooting up. Thank God I have most of the ones I'm interested in already.
Holy crap.
Not only is it a different color scheme, but it's 10* and much much stronger!?

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYUM

Meji
Jan 26, 2013, 05:33 AM
I have a feeling I'm one of the few that doesn't mind these quests costing Meseta.

Why? It makes them a lot more special and uncommon. This also makes players want to do their absolute best when playing these quests. Gather up your favorite team of friends, and just plow through the new stages together.
It will feel more special doing these quests, if you can't do them frequently due to the high cost.

Rob2003ert
Jan 26, 2013, 05:49 AM
If it winds up costing 500k every run I think it's a little extreme, if only because of the fact it resets after(every?) 7 days. I'm reserving judgment until we get concrete info though, it's probably not gonna be as bad as people are making out.

Dnd
Jan 26, 2013, 05:58 AM
The new weapons have some insane attack stats on them..

The rod is 919.6 t-atk at +10 (which is 26(27?) more then the elder rod+10)

The mechs are 868.3 r-atk at +10, which is 48.3 over the most powerful mechs in game at the moment.

I Just wonder how many runs you need for just one of these, and I wonder if they will release a wired lance in this shop that's usable by all classes and is somewhat powerful :p.

I'm also hoping these will just be a darker den style quests, just without the semi rng getting into it. For those moaning about the costs, nothing is known for sure (unless im missing something) - doing every taco every day for a week yields 5.46 million meseta, which is 11 runs assuming it will be 500k each...

MetalDude
Jan 26, 2013, 06:16 AM
Can anyone identify any of those weapons? Ikutachi was mentioned of course and we know of Messer Agate. The mech is definitely Ishurai. I can't identify the rod at all and they all share the same pattern of a 574/584 requirement. If I had to guess, that's probably a Salvador and if a talis is in this, it's a Hard Quartz.

Heat Haze
Jan 26, 2013, 06:19 AM
Can anyone identify any of those weapons? Ikutachi was mentioned of course and we know of Messer Agate. The mech is definitely Ishurai. I can't identify the rod at all and they all share the same pattern of a 574/584 requirement. If I had to guess, that's probably a Salvador and if a talis is in this, it's a Hard Quartz.

The Rod is Seitenweise. It's currently around 5 million right now.

MetalDude
Jan 26, 2013, 06:33 AM
These are all a part of a series and I'm quickly finding out which weapons are part of them.

So far I've got:
Ikutachi
Rust Device (?)
Messer Agate
Divulcan (confirmed by the cover for the update)
Ishurai (running for 500k+ and they're not terribly hard to find)
Seitenweise
Metalisolidom (looks confirmed based on how pricey it is now)

Z-0
Jan 26, 2013, 06:34 AM
Look in the datamined icons. Look for ANYTHING with a reskin.

Bam, prices have gone up for it.

Heat Haze
Jan 26, 2013, 06:51 AM
The datamined icons have a lot to do with it, yeah. So far based on the poor quality picture there are a few things I'm taking note of, not that it shows much admittedly.

1. 374 Requirement on the originals
2. 3 items per area perhaps, such as how the first 3 weapons are from forest, then the Messer Agate after from caves. Matching attribute with respect to the area as well.
3. 1 weapon per weapon category (based on what is shown so far).
4. Whoever provided the original photo needs a new scanner and/or camera

Maybe I'm reading too much into this. It's Sega after all.

Crystal_Shard
Jan 26, 2013, 07:05 AM
Most likely, the weapons that can be exchanged are all those we've seen to have an olive green version in the datamined info. While I don't really like the colour scheme, my pressing questions are - will these weapons all be all class and will they have such crazy requirements as to break all of our skill trees if we try to use more than one? Hopefully, this will make more good weapons available to hybrid class setups.

Z-0
Jan 26, 2013, 07:17 AM
I highly doubt they'll be allclass because they are BETTER than the current 10*s we have, lol. However, if they are, they'll only be good for setups such as GU/RA or FI/HU, to interchange the hierarchy's weapons.

PS: 10* is never becoming tradeable.

Seraphus
Jan 26, 2013, 07:38 AM
I highly doubt they'll be allclass because they are BETTER than the current 10*s we have, lol. However, if they are, they'll only be good for setups such as GU/RA or FI/HU, to interchange the hierarchy's weapons.

PS: 10* is never becoming tradeable.

Oh but they are already tradeable! For excubes...

I don't believe they will ever be tradeable/sellable, but I find it funny they still let you search for 10* rarity in the player shops.

Kirine
Jan 26, 2013, 08:03 AM
If this is true... then we all know what this means...

While if it it s true that these will be stronger than our current 10 star weapons, we're all missing the big point.

This may, although costly, be the best weapons in the game purely on the fact that (though we do not know how it will work) we can 50% element them!

No need to spend ages finding 4 yasminkov9000 just for 50% element.


So I guess the price spike was predicted.

Z-0
Jan 26, 2013, 08:11 AM
i need to 50% my rod for optimal striking power \o/

The Walrus
Jan 26, 2013, 08:31 AM
That's nothing. I need 50 element on my Talis if I ever hope to do decent damage with it. Seriously those normals are beastly

Coatl
Jan 26, 2013, 08:43 AM
What versions of the weapons will we have to turn in for the superior ones though I wonder. To get the advanced quest trigedor is the trigedor acceptable as a material or only the lambda trigedor? And for the advanced quest Fossil Trix will the Fossil Trix be neccessary or will the Fossil Victor do too?

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 08:48 AM
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.minus.com/iRw81FWvDJMLc.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.minus.com/iYjnCly3TsswU.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Well that was fast. Good thing I still have most of those 374 requirement weapons

Ezodagrom
Jan 26, 2013, 09:04 AM
1. 374 Requirement on the originals
Based on this, the weapons there are most likely:
Sword - Ikutachi
Partisan - Rust Device
Twin Dagger - Messer Agate
Knuckles - Gravel Core
Assault Rifle - Divulcan
Twin Machineguns - Ishurai
Rod - Seitenweise
Talis - Metalisolidom
Wand - Schmidtore


[spoiler-box]http://i.minus.com/iRw81FWvDJMLc.png[/spoiler-box]
[spoiler-box]http://i.minus.com/iYjnCly3TsswU.png[/spoiler-box]

Well that was fast. Good thing I still have most of those 374 requirement weapons
Is that in Ship 02? Messer Agate was like 300k back when this was announced. o-o;


What versions of the weapons will we have to turn in for the superior ones though I wonder. To get the advanced quest trigedor is the trigedor acceptable as a material or only the lambda trigedor? And for the advanced quest Fossil Trix will the Fossil Trix be neccessary or will the Fossil Victor do too?
Seems that this is only for 9* weapons with 374 requirement.

EDIT: Looks like some japanese players also don't like the steep prices for advance quests?

2ch comments - "RMT victory".
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46920975&postcount=2184

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 09:51 AM
Is that in Ship 02? Messer Agate was like 300k back when this was announced. o-o;




Nope, that's ship 10. Also can anyone tell what the base damage on that kakutachi is? 426...or 526 :-o

Z-0
Jan 26, 2013, 09:53 AM
526, so it has 486 base S-Atk, which is 923 S-Atk at +10 which is more than Elder Pain.

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 09:57 AM
526, so it has 486 base S-Atk, which is 923 S-Atk at +10 which is more than Elder Pain.

Dear god...I can't wait for this update

Heat Haze
Jan 26, 2013, 10:18 AM
Really want the Seitenweise only because it looks much better than Elder Rod in my opinion. Problem is that I'd rather not drop 5 mil on the thing, spend more meseta doing Advanced Quests to get the trade items, and spend even more meseta grinding/affixing for a weapon (moreso assuming it retains the weapon potential of the original) that has only 26 more T-Atk at +10.

Hoping weapons aren't the only things Advanced Quests have to offer, some fancy looking units would be nice too.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 10:21 AM
Yeah...these pyroxenes are going to be crazy hard to get, account bound, and probably require multiple dozens of advanced quests :wacko:

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 10:28 AM
I'd rather things cost a lot of money to obtain rather than rely on shitty rng (assuming you get some stones every run). At least it's something to work towards.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 10:28 AM
Surely you don't think it's going to be just one or the other.

Even expensive content is going to rely heavily on RNG.

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 10:30 AM
Surely you don't think it's going to be just one or the other.

Even expensive content is going to rely heavily on RNG.

If advance quests are anything like the falz elder eq I don't think it's crazy to assume that you will at least get 2 of these stones per run

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 10:34 AM
Maybe. Yet, of everyone who spams and spams and spams falz elder, is it the 300 iritistas they wanted, or the items withheld by the RNG?

There will never be a feature that does not hold back the goods with RNG. The only guaranteed items will be shit, which you'll need to grind up with RNG and affix with RNG.

edit: As has just been pointed out to me

[spoiler-box]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up36697.jpg[/spoiler-box]
If it's like elder falz then have fun collectiong 90 agnis 2-6 at a time :wacko: (usually 2)

Zerex
Jan 26, 2013, 10:38 AM
ITT: People who think 20m is pocket change, and 10* weapons are actually easy to get, and that the RNG isn't actually bad.

2 pro 4 me.

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 10:40 AM
Maybe. Yet, of everyone who spams and spams and spams falz elder, is it the 300 iritistas they wanted, or the items withheld by the RNG?

There will never be a feature that does not hold back the goods with RNG. The only guaranteed items will be shit, which you'll need to grind up with RNG and affix with RNG.

edit: As has just been pointed out to me

[spoiler-box]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up36697.jpg[/spoiler-box]
If it's like elder falz then have fun collectiong 90 agnis 2-6 at a time :wacko: (usually 2)

I guess 90 is a bit much. Still though, it's something to work towards. Even if it was 1 stone per advance quest, there is a bit of satisfaction in the fact that you are getting closer to whatever it is you want from that shop. It's shitty, but a lot less shitty than farming for months and getting nothing.


ITT: People who think 20m is pocket change, and 10* weapons are actually easy to get, and that the RNG isn't actually bad.

2 pro 4 me.

If you saw my previous screenshot i'm actually extremely broke. I'd have to rely on doing time attack to get enough to play an advance quest...it's still a lot better than farming for something that probably wont drop.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 10:42 AM
"A bit much"

There has yet to be one single feature that released and was as easy as fans hoped. Full stop.

This is going to be hilarious when it launches.

Z-0
Jan 26, 2013, 10:42 AM
But this time, you'll farm for months and still get nothing and lose a lot of meseta in the process.

Then in 2 months you'll have what you want, and there'll be something better.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 10:44 AM
^The real highlight.

Elder pain is currently the BEST sword in the game, and its latent is...HP steal.

Never in PS has an HP stealing weapon ever been the strongest weapon in its class. It's only ever been passable.

There is a whole wave of weapons coming and it is going to make elder pain look like shit. Everything we have now? Shit. Everything we can have now? Shit. This is obvious, sure, but the real question is how much effort you're going to need to exert to upgrade.

Now you'll have to farm, grind, affix, AND EXCHANGE weapons.

:]

Ezodagrom
Jan 26, 2013, 10:51 AM
Maybe. Yet, of everyone who spams and spams and spams falz elder, is it the 300 iritistas they wanted, or the items withheld by the RNG?

There will never be a feature that does not hold back the goods with RNG. The only guaranteed items will be shit, which you'll need to grind up with RNG and affix with RNG.

edit: As has just been pointed out to me

[spoiler-box]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up36697.jpg[/spoiler-box]
If it's like elder falz then have fun collectiong 90 agnis 2-6 at a time :wacko: (usually 2)
The new pyroxene weapons are dependent in the RNG, since they don't only require pyroxenes, they also require the original weapon (in some cases the original is not easy to find, for example, last time I checked Ikutachi costed around 2 million meseta or so in the player shops).
But...requiring 90 pyroxenes? I guess it depends on how many can be obtained at a time, but if it's anything like the Elder pyroxenes, that's just too much.

Z-0
Jan 26, 2013, 10:53 AM
I dunno, I think 90 is pretty intentional considering all these weapons are better than the current 10*s. Plus they do want a money sink, and lots and lots of people keep saying "Oh I was just want to buy my 10*s", so there you go, even if it does have a RIDICULOUS price.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 10:54 AM
On second thought, I'd first dismissed obtaining the weapon at all as being easy enough that the RNG component doesn't matter, but you've reminded me how some are already unattainable in VH.

A ha ha ha ha ha, who the hell is going to farm hard to get an ikutachi with these rates? Oh man.

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 10:55 AM
But this time, you'll farm for months and still get nothing and lose a lot of meseta in the process.

Then in 2 months you'll have what you want, and there'll be something better.

"you'll farm for months and still get nothing"

Honestly I doubt it. They are introducing this because people were complaining about not finding what they were looking for. And with the addition of weapons to the stone shop, even if you still can not find what you're looking for from a level 56 rare boss, you have something else to work towards, that isn't entirely based on rng.

"Then in 2 months you'll have what you want, and there'll be something better"

Okay? I don't see the problem with that. Do you want to be handed the best in the game, the moment it is released? If they made everything extremely easy to find the moment they added it to the game, people would find it, get bored and quit.

Honestly it seems like you guys are blowing this way out of proportion. Advance quests seem like a GOOD thing to me. And I honestly can not wait.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 10:56 AM
I dunno, I think 90 is pretty intentional considering all these weapons are better than the current 10*s. Plus they do want a money sink, and lots and lots of people keep saying "Oh I was just want to buy my 10*s", so there you go, even if it does have a RIDICULOUS price.

They are trying everything conceivable to keep from making 10*'s tradable. This is one of the last things I can imagine, but I'm sure they have people hard at work making up ways to half-resolve players' complaints in a terrifyingly accurate depiction of a malicious wish-granting genie.

World peace? A world without people sounds pretty peaceful to me. Congrats on your genocide of the entire human race.


Okay? I don't see the problem with that. Do you want to be handed the best in the game, the moment it is released? If they made everything extremely easy to find the moment they added it to the game, people would find it, get bored and quit.
Ah, this gem. Looks like nobody's taking you seriously anymore. People have been saying this turd of a line since PS came out. No, finding a good item will NOT force everyone to quit. Turns out most people like playing the game to just play the game and hang out with friends.

Also, amusing words coming from Mr. 7 Demonic Forks. Did you quit yet?

Bellion
Jan 26, 2013, 11:00 AM
You can still get Ikutachis from Rockbear and Rogbelts on VH, just saying. I do hope the lvl 55+ enemies will drop 11☆ weapons with drop rates that aren't too ridiculous.

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 11:02 AM
They are trying everything conceivable to keep from making 10*'s tradable. This is one of the last things I can imagine, but I'm sure they have people hard at work making up ways to half-resolve players' complaints in a terrifyingly accurate depiction of a malicious wish-granting genie.

World peace? A world without people sounds pretty peaceful to me. Congrats on your genocide of the entire human race.


Ah, this gem. Looks like nobody's taking you seriously anymore. People have been saying this turd of a line since PS came out. No, finding a good item will NOT force everyone to quit. Turns out most people like playing the game to just play the game and hang out with friends.

Also, amusing words coming from Mr. 7 Demonic Forks. Did you quit yet?

If I was actually a force main looking for a demonic fork in tunnels, I probably would be playing a lot less than I currently do.

"Turns out most people like playing the game to just play the game and hang out with friends."

Then what is it with you and half of this forum constantly complaining about lack of content? Surenly you don't need to have the best weapon in the game to enjoy phantasy star with your friends.

If you can't handle not being spoonfed everything in the game, maybe you should play something else.

Z-0
Jan 26, 2013, 11:02 AM
It's probably just me, but I always enjoyed the PS games more after getting the "best stuff".

I just find it more enjoyable to stretch and challenge myself with everything available, rather than doing so with gimped stuff, knowing I can get better just by getting something else.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 11:05 AM
If I was actually a force main looking for a demonic fork in tunnels, I probably would be playing a lot less than I currently do.

"Turns out most people like playing the game to just play the game and hang out with friends."

Then what is it with you and half of this forum constantly complaining about lack of content? Surenly you don't need to have the best weapon in the game to enjoy phantasy star with your friends.

If you can't handle not being spoonfed everything in the game, maybe you should play something else.

Right. Where's the emergency thread evacuation button? We have another one of those guys that says nothing but "IT WOULD BE 2 EZ IF U CUD GET GUD WAPONS WITHIN 2 MONTHS"

Because that's never been sperged by half the rabid sega fans, or shot down, or been rendered entirely false by PSO Eps 1 & 2 which massively boosted rare droprates because PSO v1 was as bad as PSO2 is right now. Sorry, you were saying how nobody would play if they could get good weapons? Tell me how PSO GC and PSO BB floundered after 2 months.

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 11:10 AM
Right. Where's the emergency thread evacuation button? We have another one of those guys that says nothing but "IT WOULD BE 2 EZ IF U CUD GET GUD WAPONS WITHIN 2 MONTHS"

Because that's never been sperged by half the rabid sega fans, or shot down, or been rendered entirely false by PSO Eps 1 & 2 which massively boosted rare droprates because PSO v1 was as bad as PSO2 is right now. Sorry, you were saying how nobody would play if they could get good weapons? Tell me how PSO GC and PSO BB floundered after 2 months.

Answer me this please. With no actual end game content at the moment, what do you spend most of your time doing in pso2? Do you spend almost all your play time farming multi party areas with friends? Or do you spend most of that time farming for rares? And let's say sega gives you that super duper rare for free. What do you do next? I never played PSO gc or bb, but i'm assuming you didn't spend your entire playtime farming multi party areas.

Ezodagrom
Jan 26, 2013, 11:10 AM
Right. Where's the emergency thread evacuation button? We have another one of those guys that says nothing but "IT WOULD BE 2 EZ IF U CUD GET GUD WAPONS WITHIN 2 MONTHS"

Because that's never been sperged by half the rabid sega fans, or shot down, or been rendered entirely false by PSO Eps 1 & 2 which massively boosted rare droprates because PSO v1 was as bad as PSO2 is right now. Sorry, you were saying how nobody would play if they could get good weapons? Tell me how PSO GC and PSO BB floundered after 2 months.
Even in PSO GC and BB there were weapons that were very rare, but, in PSO2, yeah, alot of weapons are just too rare.
I think some weapons should still be very rare, but the majority should be alot more common than now.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 11:10 AM
Answer me this please. With no actual end game content at the moment, what do you spend most of your time doing in pso2? Do you spend almost all your play time farming multi party areas with friends? Or do you spend most of that time farming for rares?

Told you Z. Ignored everything I just said.

(Now he's going to assert that once I find rares I'll quit, despite knowing absolutely nothing about me, what I do, or why I do it)

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 11:12 AM
Told you Z. Ignored everything I just said.

(Now he's going to assert that once I find rares I'll quit, despite knowing absolutely nothing about me, what I do, or why I do it)

Still waiting for an answer. Are you going to sit in multi party areas 24/7 after you find that super rare? Maybe you'll partake in time attacks all day long. I'm curious. Maybe you'll start complaining about not having those awesome 10* rares in your inventory the moment you log in after a new patch.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 11:18 AM
Still waiting for an answer. Are you going to sit in multi party areas 24/7 after you find that super rare? Maybe you'll partake in time attacks all day long. I'm curious. Maybe you'll start complaining about not having those awesome 10* rares in your inventory the moment you log in after a new patch.

I am not going to answer any personal questions you direct at me because:
1. Trying to demand personal details to use in an argument is dumb.
2. Assembling strawmen is very dumb.
3. You're defending a fundamentally flawed system with flawed logic that's been used all the way back to 2000, and rendered invalid by Sega themselves with past installments of PS games (Which is conveniently and entirely ignored or dismissed by people defending current games, without fail)
4. You're really bad at this.
5. It amuses me watching you duck logic and reason in the name of repeating unimportant and unrelated questions like I'm Hillary Clinton.

Shiyo
Jan 26, 2013, 11:22 AM
Hope advanced quests are fun, kind of annoying they keep creating artificial barriers to accessing new content.

CelestialBlade
Jan 26, 2013, 11:24 AM
I just want new areas. That aren't hiding behind a dumbass RNG-based unlock method. I really don't care about running the same areas with barely-stronger monsters and the same lack of decent drops.

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 11:26 AM
I am not going to answer any personal questions you direct at me because:
1. Trying to demand personal details to use in an argument is dumb.
2. Assembling strawmen is very dumb.
3. You're defending a fundamentally flawed system with flawed logic that's been used all the way back to 2000, and rendered invalid by Sega themselves with past installments of PS games (Which is conveniently and entirely ignored or dismissed by people defending current games, without fail)
4. You're really bad at this.
5. It amuses me watching you duck logic and reason in the name of repeating unimportant and unrelated questions like I'm Hillary Clinton.

This is actually sad. I was actually expecting some kind of intelligent answer. You keep crying about those rares not being handed to you. Eventually when you quit, someone else will take your place. Someone that actually enjoys the game for what it is currently.

It's clear to me that you cant grasp the fact that if they handed everyone every single thing they wanted currently, there would be nothing else to do. Then you bring up previous phantasy star games, that actually had end game content. You are very, very funny.

Anyway like I said before, I can't wait for advance quests.

Ezodagrom
Jan 26, 2013, 11:27 AM
I just want new areas. That aren't hiding behind a dumbass RNG-based unlock method. I really don't care about running the same areas with barely-stronger monsters and the same lack of decent drops.
Apparently the next new area is only coming in April... x-x;
There will be a new boss in March, but it'll be story exclusive first, probably...

BIG OLAF
Jan 26, 2013, 11:27 AM
It's clear to me that you cant grasp the fact that if they handed everyone every single thing they wanted currently, there would be nothing else to do. Then you bring up previous phantasy star games, that actually had end game content. You are very, very funny.

I missed the part where anyone said they wanted things "handed" to them.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 11:28 AM
This is actually sad. I was actually expecting some kind of intelligent answer. You keep crying about those rares not being handed to you. Eventually when you quit, someone else will take your place. Someone that actually enjoys the game for what it is currently.

It's clear to me that you cant grasp the fact that if they handed everyone every single thing they wanted currently, there would be nothing else to do. Then you bring up previous phantasy star games, that actually had end game content. You are very, very funny.

The death throes of a nonsensical argument: Say everything you can to appear to be right, regardless of how much of it is actually based on fact.

Shit son you could get a great job at Fox News.

You should have called me sad, btw. Not funny. That evokes more pitiful imagery.

CelestialBlade
Jan 26, 2013, 11:29 AM
Apparently the next new area is only coming in April... x-x;
There will be a new boss in March, but it'll be story exclusive first, probably...
Yeah, sucks >_< And who knows, it might be the same sorta dumbass deal as Darker's Den.

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 11:30 AM
The death throes of a nonsensical argument: Say everything you can to appear to be right, regardless of how much of it is actually based on fact.

Shit son you could get a great job at Fox News.

Hah, the only nonsensical argument is the one you spout at every opportunity in every thread regarding updates from sega. I'll make this simple for you to understand. You are never going to get anything in this game easily. Not until they add more end game content. And even then, don't expect to have anything given to you for free. It will come with a price, much like with advance quests.

Ezodagrom
Jan 26, 2013, 11:31 AM
Yeah, sucks >_< And who knows, it might be the same sorta dumbass deal as Darker's Den.
I really doubt it and really hope that it isn't locked behind an RNG.
It's very likely that the new area will be the 3rd area to Amduscia, with Chrome Dragon as boss.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 11:36 AM
Hah, the only nonsensical argument is the one you spout at every opportunity in every thread regarding updates from sega. I'll make this simple for you to understand. You are never going to get anything in this game easily. Not until they add more end game content. And even then, don't expect to have anything given to you for free. It will come with a price, much like with advance quests.

Now I'm not even following what you're saying. I'll never get things easily? When did I ever say things should be easy? Answer: Never. Stop putting words in my mouth, stop strawmanning, and stop being terrible.

Here's the problem with people like you: You don't fucking read. You get 2, 3 sentences into a post and scroll down to the quick reply box. I have never said things should be easy. I've said they should be consistent. What works in 10 grinds for player 1 should not require 301 grinds for player 2. Ever. That is fucking disastrous game design.

Then people like you come up and defend things like horrible RNG-based mechanics, without realizing that's even what you're defending because you don't ever read, because you feel the need to argue with someone who you haven't even taken the time to fully understand.

This is seriously like explaining that micro evolution and macro evolution are the same goddamn thing. It is the simplest of concepts, yet you need to get down to basics and explain the freakin' ABC's before you can cover the definition of words.

consume
Jan 26, 2013, 11:43 AM
Now I'm not even following what you're saying. I'll never get things easily? When did I ever say things should be easy? Answer: Never. Stop putting words in my mouth, stop strawmanning, and stop being terrible.

Here's the problem with people like you: You don't fucking read. You get 2, 3 sentences into a post and scroll down to the quick reply box. I have never said things should be easy. I've said they should be consistent. What works in 10 grinds for player 1 should not require 301 grinds for player 2. Ever. That is fucking disastrous game design.

Then people like you come up and defend things like horrible RNG-based mechanics, without realizing that's even what you're defending because you don't ever read, because you feel the need to argue with someone who you haven't even taken the time to fully understand.

This is seriously like explaining that micro evolution and macro evolution are the same goddamn thing. It is the simplest of concepts, yet you need to get down to basics and explain the freakin' ABC's before you can cover the definition of words.

Did you already forget what you were complaining about a few pages ago?

"There has yet to be one single feature that released and was as easy as fans hoped. Full stop.

This is going to be hilarious when it launches."

Sega is implementing a new way to find rares, that is hardly rng. And yet you still fucking complain. Boo hoo, it's going to cost a lot. Boo hoo, you won't get that many stones per run. Boo hoo, I won't be able to get the weapon I want instantly.

And I have NEVER defended the terrible rng. The entire argument spouted from the fact that you are overly critical of EVERYTHING coming from sega. The first thing I fucking said was that this new system for advance quests was BETTER than the current way to get rares. Maybe you're the one that needs to go back and fucking read. If you can't enjoy the game for what it is and you have to fucking cry about EVERYTHING, don't play. It's that fucking simple.

ShinMaruku
Jan 26, 2013, 11:55 AM
Oh look it's Rush Limbaugh.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 11:59 AM
Did you already forget what you were complaining about a few pages ago?

"There has yet to be one single feature that released and was as easy as fans hoped. Full stop.

This is going to be hilarious when it launches."

Sega is implementing a new way to find rares, that is hardly rng. And yet you still fucking complain. Boo hoo, it's going to cost a lot. Boo hoo, you won't get that many stones per run. Boo hoo, I won't be able to get the weapon I want instantly.

And I have NEVER defended the terrible rng. The entire argument spouted from the fact that you are overly critical of EVERYTHING coming from sega. The first thing I fucking said was that this new system for advance quests was BETTER than the current way to get rares. Maybe you're the one that needs to go back and fucking read. If you can't enjoy the game for what it is and you have to fucking cry about EVERYTHING, don't play. It's that fucking simple.

Finally, you decided to grace the thread with something I can work with instead running around spraying blood from your decapitated chicken neck. At least now you're coming out and making it abundantly clear you're only arguing because of a complete disconnect of terminology and understanding of what I am or have ever said at all.

First and most obvious: What you call "complaining" I call "an actual observation." It is not complaining when it is fucking true. Going around saying some people need to use wheelchairs is not complaining, it is an observation of fact. Saying Sega has yet to launch a feature that's as easy as players think it will be (Emphasis: "as" easy, or for another example of this phrasing "that beer isn't as cold as I thought it would be" is not saying the beer is warm. It could be 40 degrees fahrenheit. It just means I expected it to be colder. And before you try to say I'm doing logical acrobatics - lots of people speak this way, you just didn't take the time to think this might be how I meant it. You misunderstanding this is passable.)

First, you don't know how easy/hard it will be to get these pyroxenes, so don't go arguing it will be guaranteed or won't be guaranteed. Second, there's still an RNG-based bottleneck in getting the base weapons easily in the first place, as demonstrated by the increasing prices but not increasing supply (If getting ikutachis was reliable, surely ship 2 would have more than 3 on the market, no?). Third, this is all going to result in another grinder hike. Suddenly a whole swathe of 10*'s will need grinding, and Sega is going to be directly creating this increase in demand. The RNG-gated content is still most definitely here, and you'll need to unlock latents to make the weapons special just like now.

And then a fourth point for free: No. That way you work in the "Boo hoo, I won't be able to get the weapon I want instantly." No. Don't do that. If you want to be taken even remotely seriously, don't do that. It's terrible. That is strawmanning. Assembling an argument, pretending it's what someone is saying, and then trying to dismantle this created argument is what children do. You're not a child, are you? (Do you like how I strawmanned you strawmanning me?)

As for what you are/aren't defending, I don't distinguish between what a person said 10 minutes ago and what they said 5 minutes ago. For all I know you thought you had an epiphany. If you start calling a person wrong when they're saying the RNG and over-the-top RNG mechanics are bullshit, you're saying it's not bullshit. So have fun with that.

Zyrusticae
Jan 26, 2013, 12:02 PM
Goddamn, you guys are obnoxious.

Not that that's anything new from PSO-W, oh no...

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 12:04 PM
Goddamn, you guys are obnoxious.

Not that that's anything new from PSO-W, oh no...

Look who's talking.

Still waiting for you to take your hiatus from PSOW

edit: I said something a bit too mean so I'll just leave it like this now.

Arika
Jan 26, 2013, 12:04 PM
So far, every content has been very easy accessible and casual friendly. (easy as in you can directly access it, you wait for it to announce, or you need some luck)

This is the first content that look like to be something for only hardcore players to do. Casual players won't have enough meseta for this. (especially it reset every 7 days) But since 90% of this game missions are casual friendly anyway, it is not a bad idea to finally have some exclusive hardcore content. Casual players can wait until they release new difficult to farm lv 56+ monsters there for free.

Zyrusticae
Jan 26, 2013, 12:09 PM
Look who's talking.

Still waiting for you to take your hiatus from PSOW
I already took one.

I should probably just add you to my ignore list already, seeing as how every single one of your posts is obnoxiously lathed with sarcastic stupidity and moronic interludes of sheer bone-headed holier-than-thou arrogance.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 12:09 PM
Only when directed towards you, babe.

ShinMaruku
Jan 26, 2013, 12:10 PM
It's RNG accessible more often than not.
But yes very accessible but if you want the rares it's all luck no special mission will change that.

Zyrusticae
Jan 26, 2013, 12:10 PM
Only when directed towards you, babe.
No, not really. You do it all the time.

But I guess you don't really have enough self-cognition to recognize that.

ShinMaruku
Jan 26, 2013, 12:13 PM
http://stylealchemy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/kingofpopcorn1.gif

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 12:13 PM
No, not really. You do it all the time.

But I guess you don't really have enough self-cognition to recognize that.

My bad, I guess I'm still tripping up over the idea of a two day hiatus from a website solving your problems with said website.

But no, really, sorry if you think I have that kind of tone or attitude all the time. I only mean to direct it towards people who say unreasonably dumb things.

NoiseHERO
Jan 26, 2013, 12:14 PM
Zyru argument baiting again?

Valkyrie Lovrina
Jan 26, 2013, 12:17 PM
ho boy, that was quite a mess.


also, seeing the prices skyrocket on the required weapons was slightly amusing. if only I could read the future I would have bought all of them while they were still cheap. :(

ShinMaruku
Jan 26, 2013, 12:17 PM
Ergo the popcorn.

Zyrusticae
Jan 26, 2013, 12:18 PM
My bad, I guess I'm still tripping up over the idea of a two day hiatus from a website solving your problems with said website.

But no, really, sorry if you think I have that kind of tone or attitude all the time. I only mean to direct it towards people who say unreasonably dumb things.

Zyru argument baiting again?
No, no, and no again.

I took a hiatus to get the anger out of my system. I don't say unreasonably dumb things unless you have an unreasonably warped view of things; everything I say has been arguing for reasoned discourse and realistic expectations, as opposed to the stupidly sky-high expectations that so many people on this forum seem absolutely enamored with.

More than that, I have NEVER come on here specifically to get a rise out of people. If I ever say something out of anger, it was genuinely out of anger and not just so I can get a rise out of people (unlike you or people like RemiusTA). You can say a lot of things about me, but you can never say I have been dishonest.

The Walrus
Jan 26, 2013, 12:24 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/33896802.jpg

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 12:26 PM
No, no, and no again.

I took a hiatus to get the anger out of my system. I don't say unreasonably dumb things unless you have an unreasonably warped view of things; everything I say has been arguing for reasoned discourse and realistic expectations, as opposed to the stupidly sky-high expectations that so many people on this forum seem absolutely enamored with.

More than that, I have NEVER come on here specifically to get a rise out of people. If I ever say something out of anger, it was genuinely out of anger and not just so I can get a rise out of people (unlike you or people like RemiusTA). You can say a lot of things about me, but you can never say I have been dishonest.

This post has been unexpectedly enlightening, and I'm not going to say anything else.

Zyrusticae
Jan 26, 2013, 12:26 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/33896802.jpg
https://58fi4a.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pecjDAAiAQ0GTsw4VY0pkHYkydiQKZy3YKjAdEs9kZMaFiNA kEqT4Um_iHStAqUMgRFRO5tjMR-Q/dogslap.gif?psid=1

Ezodagrom
Jan 26, 2013, 12:28 PM
ho boy, that was quite a mess.


also, seeing the prices skyrocket on the required weapons was slightly amusing. if only I could read the future I would have bought all of them while they were still cheap. :(
Just checked the prices...wow...
Messer Agate went from around 300k yesterday to 950k at the time of this post, Ikutachi went from 2 million to 7.35 million... @_@

The Walrus
Jan 26, 2013, 12:28 PM
https://58fi4a.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pecjDAAiAQ0GTsw4VY0pkHYkydiQKZy3YKjAdEs9kZMaFiNA kEqT4Um_iHStAqUMgRFRO5tjMR-Q/dogslap.gif?psid=1

http://i42.tinypic.com/1692888.png

NoiseHERO
Jan 26, 2013, 12:30 PM
Why mock pointless arguments when you're actually just instigating them... with MEMES? when you can just draw your own in paint!

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GenerationMichaeru/OHHH_zps7008ffda.png

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 12:31 PM
rock why are you drawing tommy from rugrats

NoiseHERO
Jan 26, 2013, 12:32 PM
rock why are you drawing tommy from rugrats

Cause he's the leader.

The Walrus
Jan 26, 2013, 12:36 PM
Why mock pointless arguments when you're actually just instigating them... with MEMES? when you can just draw your own in paint!

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GenerationMichaeru/OHHH_zps7008ffda.png

WELL YA SEE


i dunno i'm just bored

Jakosifer
Jan 26, 2013, 12:45 PM
Man, IMMA MAKE BREAD ON ALL THOSE FUGLY ASS WEAPONS I HAVE IN STORAGE

BRIGHT SIDE LOOKIN AT IT CHEAAAAAAAA

Back in the dope game.

EvilMag
Jan 26, 2013, 01:24 PM
I think this sums up the thread.
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q585/EvilMag123/PSOW.png

NoiseHERO
Jan 26, 2013, 01:51 PM
I think this sums up the thread.
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q585/EvilMag123/PSOW.png

I didn't know ghetis was tsundere.

Zyrusticae
Jan 26, 2013, 02:08 PM
This post has been unexpectedly enlightening, and I'm not going to say anything else.
Great! I'm glad we're getting places (for once).



It's clear to me that you cant grasp the fact that if they handed everyone every single thing they wanted currently, there would be nothing else to do
I just felt like commenting on this.

No, even if the drop rates were actually sane, you'd STILL be able to get them affixed, grinded to +10, possibly get the potentials unlocked, AND get them to 50% element bonuses. Doing all of that takes a shedload of time and money. With the current drop rates, it's basically impossible with any 10* rare that doesn't come from the iritista store. I honestly can't see a real justification for the drop rates being as low as they are.

MetalDude
Jan 26, 2013, 02:19 PM
So I'm hoping Ishurai keeps getting jacked up in price because it's one of the few of these that are really easy to find, meaning tons of easy money.

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 02:20 PM
My stack of gravel cores.

Me gusta.

RadiantLegend
Jan 26, 2013, 04:18 PM
I can't really complain, I play the game for free.

Sierhiet
Jan 26, 2013, 07:01 PM
So, I read the little tit for tat over PSU's system and as someone who has generally had grand success with it, I'm curious as to what everyone else's specific gripe was with it. And if anyone has a preference at this point between installments.

Syklo
Jan 26, 2013, 07:25 PM
Back in my day, messer agates were 10k...

Now,.....lemme go check

TehblackUchiha
Jan 26, 2013, 07:37 PM
snagged me a rust device, gravel core, and cruel coffin before they were considered. I already owned an ishurai and bought some other extras just in case they add alot more. Those other reskins have proxenes just u wait... imma be rich... lol

Ezodagrom
Jan 26, 2013, 09:45 PM
What we know based on the picture of the new pyroxene weapons.

- 4 weapons listed, 3 with wind element, 1 with fire element.

- The original versions of those weapons have 374 of their attack stat as requirement.

- Twin Dagger requires 600 S-ATK, has Mutation I and Power III affixes.

- If all the weapons have the same affixes (with Power III being replaced with Shoot or Technique depending on the weapon), the weapons are stronger than the current 10*, even without the affixes.

- Twin Dagger requires the original weapon and 90 fire pyroxenes to be obtained.And now for some speculation:

- There are 9 weapons that have 374 of their attack stat as requirements, most likely all of those are the ones that will have upgraded versions in the shop.

- Every 3 of those 9 weapons have similarities between them.


- Ikutachi, Ishurai and Seitenweise look like they're made of wood, plus their upgraded versions all have wind element, so I find it very likely that these will require the wind pyroxene.

- Messer Agate, Divulcan and Schmidtore look like they're made of similar materials, plus the upgraded version of Messer Agate is shown to have fire element and requires the fire pyroxene. It's very likely that the other 2 also have fire element and require the fire pyroxene.

- Rust Device, Gravel Core and Metalisolidom look like they're made of robot parts. Seeing how the previous 2 groups work, it's likely that these will require a 3rd type of pyroxene, and that all 3 will have the same element.- Since it's likely that there are 3 types of pyroxenes and that there are 3 advance quest areas, it's likely that each type of pyroxene is obtained in a specific advance quest area.

- Looking at the pyroxene elements and their respective weapons, most likely the wind pyroxene will be obtainable in the forest, the fire pyroxene in the caves, and the 3rd pyroxene in the desert. This is all speculation, of course.

- Since the original version of the new weapons all have the same requirement, there's the possibility that the strike weapons may all require 600 S-ATK, the shoot weapons 600 R-ATK and the technic weapons 600 T-ATK. No idea if it is really like this though.

Macman
Jan 26, 2013, 10:42 PM
You're all silly.

I'm too busy saving my meseta for those badass Desert CAST parts to be paying to go through a quest and leaving empty-handed. Those are gonna be the most expensive male CAST set yet.

TehblackUchiha
Jan 26, 2013, 10:51 PM
awesome observation, i didn't even think about it like that before and now ricardo's post makes sense to me now. But i wonder about the darker weapon reskins like the gwana weapons, and the red (clone) weapons, also the other unknown reskins like axeon, etc. They might make a city or darkers den advanced quest to get darker stones?

gigawuts
Jan 26, 2013, 10:52 PM
All the enemy part weapons are colored the same as the rare counterpart of that enemy.

I can't wait for rare versions of weapons that only have a chance of dropping from rare enemies.

So the gwana daggers and gwana lance I've gotten from gwana neros would be...probably 50% better if I found them in a month.

:|

BIG OLAF
Jan 26, 2013, 10:55 PM
awesome observation, i didn't even think about it like that before and now ricardo's post makes sense to me now. But i wonder about the darker weapon reskins like the gwana weapons, and the red (clone) weapons, also the other unknown reskins like axeon, etc. They might make a city or darkers den advanced quest to get darker stones?

People sittin' here talking 'bout reskins like it's totally fine. Back in PSU's day, everyone flipped shit over reskins.

Ah, I remember what they said when PSO2 was first revealed to be PC-only:

"Oh boy, since it's going to be PC-exclusive, now they have near unlimited resources to make new things and we'll finally be done with all that reskin garbage!"

Nope.

Ezodagrom
Jan 26, 2013, 11:01 PM
People sittin' here talking 'bout reskins like it's totally fine. Back in PSU's day, everyone flipped shit over reskins.

Ah, I remember what they said when PSO2 was first revealed to be PC-only:

"Oh boy, since it's going to be PC-exclusive, now they have near unlimited resources to make new things and we'll finally be done with all that reskin garbage!"

Nope.
In PSU the problem was reskins of bosses, especially for a major boss (De Rol Le -> Dark Fish, Dulk Fakis 2 -> Dark Falz), the problem wasn't weapons having reskins or not (well, in PSU 1*~6* weapons were pretty much the same just with different colours, same thing for 7*~9*).

When it comes to bosses, the only lazy reskin in PSO2 so far is just a mini-boss, Caterdran -> Caterdransa.
Others are perfectly fine, even Rockbear -> Wolgahda are fine since they at least have different behaviour.

Zyrusticae
Jan 26, 2013, 11:32 PM
People sittin' here talking 'bout reskins like it's totally fine. Back in PSU's day, everyone flipped shit over reskins.

Ah, I remember what they said when PSO2 was first revealed to be PC-only:

"Oh boy, since it's going to be PC-exclusive, now they have near unlimited resources to make new things and we'll finally be done with all that reskin garbage!"

Nope.
Of course, if they didn't do that, you'd likely have people complaining about all the cool weapon skins that are attached to shitty stats...

Of course, they could solve this with a system that lets you reskin weapons, but at that point why even bother with having individual stats for weapons in the first place?

Cyclon
Jan 27, 2013, 08:23 AM
So, I read the little tit for tat over PSU's system and as someone who has generally had grand success with it, I'm curious as to what everyone else's specific gripe was with it. And if anyone has a preference at this point between installments.
Once upon a time My friend wanted a weapon called the crea doubles. This was more or less his only objective in PSU. To make it, we needed 20 of a material called the goldania(or was it ten? Whatever). So I helped him and we farmed for days. Eventually, we had only one goldania left to find, but it just wouldn't drop. He ended up buying it. His partner machinery wasn't the highest level possible, which would have granted him a... 94... or 92 success chance? He thought 89% was enough.

The synthesis gave him a goldania.

Afterwards, my efforts to keep him interested with the game were brutally butchered by his computer suddenyl deciding to bsod every time a rappy popped(we never knew for sure), effectively making him stop the game forever. I followed. True story.

...what was your question again?

Laxedrane
Jan 27, 2013, 12:25 PM
Once upon a time My friend wanted a weapon called the crea doubles. This was more or less his only objective in PSU. To make it, we needed 20 of a material called the goldania(or was it ten? Whatever). So I helped him and we farmed for days. Eventually, we had only one goldania left to find, but it just wouldn't drop. He ended up buying it. His partner machinery wasn't the highest level possible, which would have granted him a... 94... or 92 success chance? He thought 89% was enough.

The synthesis gave him a goldania.

Afterwards, my efforts to keep him interested with the game were brutally butchered by his computer suddenyl deciding to bsod every time a rappy popped(we never knew for sure), effectively making him stop the game forever. I followed. True story.

...what was your question again?

Not to be a dick(but totally am) unless you were playing pre-expansion there were several quest in AoTL that had One box that had a very had chance(I venture an 805 chance) in every quest to drop a very specific rare metal or gem. Goldonia was scarred planet A. I spammed the shit out of that quest just to get my foot in the door when restarting my character on the 360 severs a year after ps2/pc collapse in america.

It sucks but again I am going to play the good old *FFXI HAD IT WORSE* card lol.

Anyways @Bigolaf speaking as strictly someone who didn't play on the JP servers. The biggest gripe about reskins on the 360 server, imo, wasn't that they were reskins. But they represented weapons with unique models we weren't getting as reskins. Personally I was ecstatic when one of the reskin rods was the very low level generic rod that I loved it's model and that rod was the 3rd or 4th strongest released on the server now. It sucks it came at the cost of a unique weapon but I am pretty stoked to be able to pull out my hammer again soon.:D

Cyclon
Jan 27, 2013, 05:24 PM
Not to be a dick(but totally am)
Not at all. I'm not bitter about this. It's just a funny little story.
I was also perfectly aware that we may have been doing something wrong. I'm not blaming the game really.