Dudu calculator

[lkaruga]

is there a simulator for the grinder shop? if not can someone make a calculator simulator thing that shows the probabilities and stuff for both grinders and abilities? It'd be nice to know the costs too for both meseta and grinders. that way we can plan on how much mr dudu will rob us on our future stuffs ^^;

[Zyrusticae]

Too much randomness.

Sometimes it will take 400 grinders. Sometimes it will take 40. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE.

Even if you get a reasonably accurate average, half the time you will go far above it and half the time you will go far below it. That is the nature of machine-based randomness.

[Shadowth117]

Lol.. that's easy. Just multiply your percentages. Its all statistics. IE if Doo Doo gives you something like say...
45
45
75

.45*.45*.75 = 0.151875

So you have around a 15% chance of actually getting all those abilities on there. You can also calculate the percentages of other combinations with other formulas, but you get the idea. Obviously for grinding, the method is similar. If the grinds you wanted to go through were:
60->50->45->40->35
.6*.5*.45*.4*.35 = 0.0189 overall chance. Almost 2% overall chance in one straight grind session. Ouch.

So yeah. These values are pretty easy to calculate. Just think about it.

Edit: I reread what you said actually and while you can calculate the average amount of meseta etc. you should be spending pretty easy, its hardly guaranteed. Statistically, even a 99% chance can still fail because of that 1%. There is a picture on the uploader of a 100, 100, 100, 90 transfer failing on the 90 and that is very statistically possible. Its not likely for some things to happen, but it absolutely can unless its 100% one way or another so it shouldn't be ignored by any means.

[Dnd]

Just plan on him taking every last asset you own, and coming out with a weapon that isn't max grind.

Most of the time, that will happen so your not disappointed when it does, sometimes, you get lucky and he spits out a +10 weapon

As for a stimulator for it? without knowing the % chance of a grind being successful or not, its impossible and even then if you did, the simulators result may be completely out of line with the ingame dudu, considering you cant predict RNG by its very nature, just be at its mercy and maybe increase the chances with boosters/protection items

[Seravi Edalborez]

1* to 9* items: 1 grinder
10* items: 2 grinders.
11* items: 4 grinders.
12* items: 5 grinders.

That's how many you need for each grind. Meseta cost increases with rarity. Success rate decreases with rarity. Risk increases with rarity.

More specific than that isn't very helpful because no hard %s are given ingame.

[UnLucky]

Grinding: 1/(attempted grind value) * 1/(item rarity)

Affixing: 0-50% = (stated value) * 2/(item rarity)
50-99% = (stated value) * 1/(item rarity)
100% = (stated value)

[Soultrigger]

More specific than that isn't very helpful because no hard %s are given ingame.

I actually know most of the exact success percentages, I just have no way of determining fail percentages (-0, -1, etc). I made a thread a while back asking for help on that by asking for grind logs, but it turned into a derailment about a hidden streak modifier.

[Shadowth117]

Grinding: 1/(attempted grind value) * 1/(item rarity)

Affixing: 0-50% = (stated value) * 2/(item rarity)
50-99% = (stated value) * 1/(item rarity)
100% = (stated value)

Those affixing "statistics" sound like a massive amount of speculation. Got any proof of that? Because I'd sure love to see it.

@Soultrigger AKA Odjyboy: I never saw that, but I'm sure there's a lot of people who would give you that if you asked them directly and have a LOT of experience doing it *coughJack521Zyncough*.

If you want all of MY action logs and feel like sorting through them to find the grinding info you can have them, but eh:
http://www.filedropper.com/actionlogz

[lkaruga]

there is no way the grinding system is completely 'random' cus that would mean a person would just enter and exit till the weapon they want to grind is at the percentages they want(which is not the case). most percents are based off of stars, the amount of boost seems different however but thats not the problem as cirnopedia covers that information for every single weapon that has been released so far. Unless Sega put a unique constant to calculating grind success to every single equip in the game, then the success rate should be predictable for most of the items(some may be unique but not all).

I know for a fact that the level of most special abilities determines success rate regardless of the item it is on. Soul abilities seem to be their own animal however. theres also the special affects that some abilities have on others such as souls and mutation.

[Shadowth117]

there is no way the grinding system is completely 'random' cus that would mean a person would just enter and exit till the weapon they want to grind is at the percentages they want(which is not the case). most percents are based off of stars, the amount of boost seems different however but thats not the problem as cirnopedia covers that information for every single weapon that has been released so far. Unless Sega put a unique constant to calculating grind success to every single equip in the game, then the success rate should be predictable for most of the items(some may be unique but not all).

I know for a fact that the level of most special abilities determines success rate regardless of the item it is on. Soul abilities seem to be their own animal however. theres also the special affects that some abilities have on others such as souls and mutation.

Its not completely random, but it its a random chance. Some chances are more likely to occur than others, but it IS random chance in the end. Its statistically possible for an event with a 1*10^-9001 percent chance of occurring to happen numerous times in a row. Is it likely? Not at all. But is it possible for that to happen? Technically, yes it absolutely is.

You can know the success rate all you want, but that doesn't make the chance of it happening any more or less likely. There's a reason that you can't call 99% guaranteed.

[suzaku0zero0]

3 million, my DF knuckles didnt improve but degraded then went back to +8=_=

[NoiseHERO]

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GenerationMichaeru/up34718_zps9dc612b7.gif

[Zyrusticae]

TWENTY PERCENT?!

IT GOES AS LOW AS TWENTY PERCENT?!

AHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Edit: Okay, going by that chart, with no success boosters, your chance of getting a 10* to +10 with no failures is approximately 0.0078408%.

It's a number so infinitesimally tiny I can't even comprehend it.

[Shadowth117]

TWENTY PERCENT?!

IT GOES AS LOW AS TWENTY PERCENT?!

AHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Edit: Okay, going by that chart, with no success boosters, your chance of getting a 10* to +10 with no failures is approximately 0.0078408%.

It's a number so infinitesimally tiny I can't even comprehend it.

Oh, you haven't even seen the chances for 11* and 12* weapons : >

[Dnd]

Oh, you haven't even seen the chances for 11* and 12* weapons : >

I havent, no, but i want to. Want to share them? :D.

That awkward moment you get a 25% chance to work first time twice, but a 35% chance takes 5 times :D

[Shadowth117]

I havent, no, but i want to. Want to share them? :D.

That awkward moment you get a 25% chance to work first time twice, but a 35% chance takes 5 times :D

Oh, if only I had them... honestly I'm curious about them too. But given the pattern so far it seems safe to say their chances are lower meaning we'll probably want to stab ourselves if we weren't already. ^^;

If I were to take a guess, the rate for 11/12*s would probably look like this based on the previous patterns:
100-90 | 80-70 | 55 | 45 | 45 | 30 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 10

I wonder if Sega will be evil enough to make the final grind 0% unboosted (or less ><) forcing you to use boosters to even attempt it.

[Kion]

Seems like it would be a done of fun to make a browser game where you get to stab him after failing a certain number of times.

[Antipika]

TWENTY PERCENT?!

IT GOES AS LOW AS TWENTY PERCENT?!

AHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Edit: Okay, going by that chart, with no success boosters, your chance of getting a 10* to +10 with no failures is approximately 0.0078408%.

It's a number so infinitesimally tiny I can't even comprehend it.

"With no failure" is completely irrelevant in PSO2 as you can keep retrying as much as you want and as failure only lower your grind level by 0~3.

This isn't PSU, where a single failure would automatically prevents you from reaching +10 ever on your weapon. In this case, those 0.0078408% would be relevant. Not to mention that you also had failure when doing the synthesis of the weapon itself on PSU (when you would only find the board). And grinders were way harder to come by. (Grinders S+10)

To me, the PSO2 system seems more accessible (at least for 10*). 11*/12* is another story, especially without grinder boost. I still prefer this system over the one from PSU. You fail grinding once? Your weapon will never be +10 ever. Fail grinding 3 times, and it will be +7 at best which will make it less powerful than a weapon from the previous tier...

[Zyrusticae]

It remains an incredibly, infinitesimally tiny number.

Of course, that number explains why it often takes 200+ attempts for people to +10 a 10*..

[Shiyo]

"With no failure" is completely irrelevant in PSO2 as you can keep retrying as much as you want and as failure only lower your grind level by 0~3.

This isn't PSU, where a single failure would automatically prevents you from reaching +10 ever on your weapon. In this case, those 0.0078408% would be relevant. Not to mention that you also had failure when doing the synthesis of the weapon itself on PSU (when you would only find the board). And grinders were way harder to come by. (Grinders S+10)

To me, the PSO2 system seems more accessible (at least for 10*). 11*/12* is another story, especially without grinder boost. I still prefer this system over the one from PSU. You fail grinding once? Your weapon will never be +10 ever. Fail grinding 3 times, and it will be +7 at best which will make it less powerful than a weapon from the previous tier...
You may have cancer, but at least you don't have aids!

[gigawuts]

"With no failure" is completely irrelevant in PSO2 as you can keep retrying as much as you want and as failure only lower your grind level by 0~3.

This isn't PSU, where a single failure would automatically prevents you from reaching +10 ever on your weapon. In this case, those 0.0078408% would be relevant. Not to mention that you also had failure when doing the synthesis of the weapon itself on PSU (when you would only find the board). And grinders were way harder to come by. (Grinders S+10)

To me, the PSO2 system seems more accessible (at least for 10*). 11*/12* is another story, especially without grinder boost. I still prefer this system over the one from PSU. You fail grinding once? Your weapon will never be +10 ever. Fail grinding 3 times, and it will be +7 at best which will make it less powerful than a weapon from the previous tier...

Not actually tackled dudu with a 10*, have you?

[Chik'Tikka]

still beats the old PSU system where if you failed once the item would be destroyed+^_^+

[Antipika]

Not actually tackled dudu with a 10*, have you?

Did (several 9*, one 10*) and believe me, unless you played PSU, you can't realize how better the system is on PSO2. You don't literally sh*t yourself every time you attempt a grind, even at +4.

In PSO2, it's just a matter of tossing meseta into your weapon, nothing else. You can always stops around +5~7 if your funds are low, and come back to try and finish the job later. On PSU, you had to go farm another weapon after every single failure, if you were aiming for +10. And that was way more depressing. Grinders were also way more expensive and weren't a common item anyone could find, even at level 10.

[Chik'Tikka]

Did (several 9*, one 10*) and believe me, unless you played PSU, you can't realize how better the system is on PSO2. You don't literally sh*t yourself every time you attempt a grind, even at +4.

lol, I've had some (for then) very good items just vanish at attempting +2+^_^+

PSO2's grinding system is better then PSU's grinding system+^_^+ now all i wantz is to see a gazillion Agito Repcas again+^_^+

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Did (several 9*, one 10*) and believe me, unless you played PSU, you can't realize how better the system is on PSO2. You don't literally sh*t yourself every time you attempt a grind, even at +4.

In PSO2, it's just a matter of tossing meseta into your weapon, nothing else. You can always stops around +5~7 if your funds are low, and come back to try and finish the job later. On PSU, you had to go farm another weapon after every single failure, if you were aiming for +10. And that was way more depressing. Grinders were also way more expensive and weren't a common item anyone could find, even at level 10.

sure, yeah spending so long hunting and grinding a weapon to a reasonable level that it's completely outdated is totally acceptable.

[gigawuts]

I'm not going to be arguing at all that PSU was worse or equal to PSO2, or draw an analogy as to why that logic is bad "You think YOUR sunken boat is underwater? HAVE YOU HEARD OF THE TITANIC? Just be glad you can get scuba gear to retrieve your stuff! LOL NOOB"

I'm just going to ask why that means PSO2 should be bad too.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I think it's a sign of both lack of creativity and a general "see no evil" mindset.

[MetalDude]

I believe you mean "shouldn't" unless I'm mistaken.

But yeah, systems like PSP2's exist where you only needed the money and you were given a guarantee. It made building up the meseta needed much less nauseating as you knew exactly what you were going to get whereas with PSO2 you're spending meseta to see if you might just maybe/kinda/won't waste 1 million+ meseta attempting to push from 8-10 on a 10*. It's stupid.

[Soultrigger]

Let's refrain from derailing another grinding topic about RNG please. If you guys are really passionate about that topic, make a dedicated topic for it or PM each other.


[SPOILER-BOX]http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GenerationMichaeru/up34718_zps9dc612b7.gif[/SPOILER-BOX]

Nice find but...there's a logical fallacy with this chart:
how does the guy know Safe = 75% success rate? Every time you have a Safe reading, preparing a 20% booster gives you Certain, which strongly leads me to believe Safe is in fact 80%.

The same is true about Warning: there is not a single Warning that, with a 20% booster, does not become Safe.

There's also parts in his data that assumes certain success rates. How do you know something is 80% and not 85%? You can't ever know without:
A) a 15% booster which doesn't exist
B) the fail rates
C) a massive compilation of unbiased grind logs

The fact the guy has a 30% booster (man, 20 Ex Cubes for science...I feel sorry for the guy) as part of his spreadsheet will make it easier on my end to verify a few things though.

EDIT: Actually, I already found a mistake. lol

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/seventhlimit/error_zps1fa0580e.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

EDIT2: Wow this spreadsheet has a lot of mistakes. Seems he copied off the JP wiki which was part wrong too (unless they fixed it recently). A 9* +1 -> +2 is not Certain.

Which means I can't trust it. :/

[Raymee]

"With no failure" is completely irrelevant in PSO2 as you can keep retrying as much as you want and as failure only lower your grind level by 0~3.

This isn't PSU, where a single failure would automatically prevents you from reaching +10 ever on your weapon. In this case, those 0.0078408% would be relevant. Not to mention that you also had failure when doing the synthesis of the weapon itself on PSU (when you would only find the board). And grinders were way harder to come by. (Grinders S+10)

To me, the PSO2 system seems more accessible (at least for 10*). 11*/12* is another story, especially without grinder boost. I still prefer this system over the one from PSU. You fail grinding once? Your weapon will never be +10 ever. Fail grinding 3 times, and it will be +7 at best which will make it less powerful than a weapon from the previous tier...


Except that some of us have played PSU JP and the possibilities of getting 10/10 with RL money is 100% if you have enough to spend for it all.


Though, the PSU system was garbage.

I liked the grinding system in PSO1 where everything was capped to a certain point and grinders had a greek prefix to them.
The system should have been "trade with items, not meseta." Meseta would be used for CHARGE (if ever we have weapon abilities) and stuff like monofluids, monomates, stars etc.. basically PSO1's system. (Except that Photon drops here are near-useless and only good for experience 75%s)

[sandylecuistot]

Concerning this friendly non playable character and the magnificent service he gives to us, I would have an indirect question... :)
When it comes to a time where a weapon begins to REALLY be hard to grind and all... is it somewhat "easy" to make money, or is there only one way, like doing a precise time attack quest (I saw some people talk about it).
I only played the Vita CBT so I'm not a pro yet ;) .

[MetalDude]

MyShop is the best way to make money.

[sandylecuistot]

Oh. That is not what I wanted to hear...
In a way I was thinking it would be to annoying to :

- Find something to sell that would be good enough for other people to want
- Find the right prices for each piece of equipment
- Other things I might not think about right now

And how does the people who buy my stuff makes their money ?
By selling too xD, then where does it begin, is there one rich man who buy everything ?

[MetalDude]

Selling the highest priced souls (usually Mizer Souls), hunting down the 9*s that are getting converted over in the pyroxene update (not that bad for the most part), hunting clones for Photon Spheres (75% exp boosters will be valuable for a long time and latent abilities have become somewhat more accessible) and affixing units with Soul + Stat Up III + Junk are all pretty good money makers. Another good method is getting certain 9*s with the latent ability Immediate Justice/Strike up to 1 or 3, getting it to +10 again, and getting three affixes to sell it for millions. However, I would not recommend that right now as the market for those has dramatically slowed down with the advent of the coming update.

[.Jack]

Easy way to make money is making 1 or 2 slot fodders using 1* weapons/units that only cost 300meseta to affix. You can easily double what ever amount you spend.

-Example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kl73RqhPL0Q)

[sandylecuistot]

I understand 8) ... nothing at all (almost) .
That's why I don't like to sell/buy :( .
I'm not an idiot, but marketting is probbly the worst aspect of this kind of game for me...


Easy way to make money is making 1 or 2 slot fodders using 1* weapons/units that only cost 300meseta to affix. You can easily double what ever amount you spend.
But you must sell this... in a shop or... in MY shop (and I think it's the second solution)

[MetalDude]

There is literally no other good way to make money that doesn't involve MyShop. TAs will only yield you around 600k-700k a day and that's only if you have to patience to do all of them every single day.

[sandylecuistot]

Thanks. Will have to work on that :p .

[Chik'Tikka]

Like the above people said, do TAs, starting with VH (100 per TA x 4) and the rewards drop with the easier difficulties, 65k per H TA, and 30k per n TA+^_^+ it's a lot better then it was, especially with the new grinder cost patch+^_^+ i was able to +10 a 7* and an 8* with less then 400k, effectively rebuilding my HU wep pallet for the time with 1.2 mill (HU is only lvl 20) after I accidentally sold my last pallet, which i spent 5 mill grinding and affixing (dislikes being low level, dislikes even more being low level that can't do damage)+^_^+

[sandylecuistot]

Waaow, thanks kosmo... I mean Chik'Tikka ^^ .
I love good news :D .

[Chik'Tikka]

Waaow, thanks kosmo... I mean Chik'Tikka ^^ .
I love good news :D .

+^_^+ lol, so few recognize my Mary or state they do, ty for that+^_^+

[sandylecuistot]

As a Monolithsoft big fan it's normal for me to recognize this awesome character :p .