Guys I'm stoked.

[rholdenl]

So, I've been playing the JP version for about 5 days or so now. I'm loving it. It feels like a direct upgrade from the original PSO. I am soooooo ready for this to be officially translated. When it is, I plan on dropping some cash and buying some ARKs cash. I normally don't do this for games, but seeing as how this is completely free, I won't mind.

I've been trying to not get too far in the jp version as I won't be able to transfer my character, but that's very difficult when I just don't want to stop playing. lol

I'm ready for some official announcements. How about everyone else?

[blace]

At this point, PSO2 for me has already lost its touch. Probably because I mostly solo, but even then it kinda loses its feel over time.

[Kasuma Izzigawa]

I'm sure everyone else is ready for announcements for the NA/EU version, but whether we're gonna get them or not. I'll still be playing the JP servers either way as well as the international servers.

[Blackheart521]

I'm still looking forward to the Western version of PSO2 but I'm cautious of it... if it shows any signs of having a lack of content or support I won't hesitate to drop it and just play the JP version exclusively, especially considering that we have English Patches for the game and story now... It would be very nice though if it was well supported, still semi-optimistic about the whole thing. ^^;

[UnLucky]

man I spend more time here than in game

and I've got like 600+ hours logged

[Jim]

At this point, PSO2 for me has already lost its touch. Probably because I mostly solo, but even then it kinda loses its feel over time.

For me, community is the meat and potatoes of Phantasy Star(1 and 2). I don't think that taking 3 friends into an EQ, meeting up with 8 other people from your block, and triggering an 8-minute Cross Burst that gives you 75% of a level will ever get old. At least the amount of content is decent. PSO1 shipped with 4 areas to explore and we already have 7 besides EQs like the urban areas.

Naturally, different people enjoy the games for different reasons, so I'm not saying you can't be dissatisfied. :beer:

[eharima]

It feels like a direct upgrade from the original PSO.

No...

[Lamak]

As someone who's coming from PSU, I have to say that PSO 2 is leaps ahead of PSU and is a pretty enjoyable experience. The ARKS Ship being the only lobby is pretty strange though, but then again I'm only 30 hours in and level 23 so I'm pretty sure there's a lot of content I don't even know about.

[Seravi Edalborez]

man I spend more time here than in game

and I've got like 600+ hours logged

At this point myself. A month ago I would still at least log on for Falz and TACOs.
Now... eh...

Edit: Though the time spent in that first 600+ hours I did really enjoy, if only for the novelty of combat and just general MMO addiction. But when you stop for a while it's sometimes hard to start again.

[Yunfa]

1700+ hours and going strong, & no i dont ever afk in the lobbies

[CelestialBlade]

Comparing it to PSO is pretty silly given the giant age gap, but on its own it's a pretty good game. The major issues I have with it all involve Sega's ineptitude and idiocy, so I really don't have a lot to complain about regarding the actual game.

[Kion]

I'm sure everyone else is ready for announcements for the NA/EU version, but whether we're gonna get them or not. I'll still be playing the JP servers either way as well as the international servers.

At this rate the game will be completely fan translated before the NA version even comes out.

[Lumpen Thingy]

No...
yes....

[MetalDude]

Direct? No, because then we'd actually have weapon variety and good quests.

The combat is a major step up though as is the usage of codes.

[Zipzo]

My issue is that I'm actually relocating to Japan...to live...even though I'm a native english speaker. My Japanese is not very good (yet), but I'm going to be in intensive language study for a year and a halfish. Obviously until then I'd prefer to be on NA/EU but if they IP ban Japan I'm forced to stay on JP anyways lol.

[Jim]

Direct? No, because then we'd actually have weapon variety and good quests.

I like the game, but still... THIS^

[SociableTyrannosaur]

man I spend more time here than in game

and I've got like 600+ hours logged

Yeah, this. 1000+ hours and I'm pretty burnt out on the game.

[Rien]

To the OP:

Good that you like it. Enjoy it while you can because some 40(?) more levels into the game and you'll take back what you said.

[Icyflamez96]

To the OP:

Good that you like it. Enjoy it while you can because some 40(?) more levels into the game and you'll take back what you said.

What? :/

[blace]

What? :/

We're just rerunning the same areas, same missions, same everything with little variety. You'll understand when you play.

[Agitated_AT]

We're just rerunning the same areas, same missions, same everything with little variety. You'll understand when you play.

But this isnt concrete enough. Tell me if you disagree but i think the issue with the game is that when you first go through normal it all still feels new so the progression part keeps it interesting. Until you set to hard and you're confronted with the fact that the experience is basically a mode with larger numbers and almost unnoticable boost in attacks from the enemies.

The problem is really the fact when all the surprise wears off, the lack of any engaging content makes replaying a boring experience. This is just a general statement. Soms e quests or TA missions are an exception

On a side note blace. You should really not play this game solo. Just like in pso1, its really boring that way. Im not saying u should never, but in a team this game is a billion times more fun. If not only because the game encourages it by adding more mobs and e codes.

[blace]

On a side note blace. You should really not play this game solo. Just like in pso1, its really boring that way. Im not saying u should never, but in a team this game is a billion times more fun. If not only because the game encourages it by adding more mobs and e codes.
I was able to find PSO more engaging even when I soloed it, there was more variety to it that may be predictable but made it interesting. Like hunting certain weapons for example, it was more fun hunting for rare mobs than hoping to encounter a large number of the mobs hoping it drops what you want.

As for teams, all they really did was congest my chat box. Never really talked to anyone in game much.

[Syklo]

I did say that I would move over to the EN servers should they come....

but depending on how I go in my final year of secondary schooling, I might stick to the JP server a bit longer to refine my japanese.

Still not bored of this game.

[Soultrigger]

The problem is really the fact when all the surprise wears off, the lack of any engaging content makes replaying a boring experience. This is just a general statement. Soms e quests or TA missions are an exception

I told someone else the same thing, but this game is really all flash and no substance. SEGA tries to cater to casual players by setting the entry barrier really low, but what you end up with is a really shallow game that is completely superficial in terms of content. It's no surprise that any new content generates interest for about a few days then quickly declines from there.

Honestly, if they just had ONE map that was extremely hard and needed top of the line gear, proper skill trees, legitimate party structure, and reasonable execution, then already their game longevity increases tenfold. You have a reason to search for good rares and up your game because you have a goal to look forward to accomplishing. One could argue that is what AQ is supposed to be like, but knowing SEGA, I completely expect it to be set spawns with slightly more HP, slightly more ATK, and different loot tables. And from there, the whole cycle repeats with a short burst of interest followed by exponential decline.

Okay, maybe a "too hard" quest would be controversial by JP player standards. So then how about Team-based interrupt rankings where Team-restricted MPAs run a premade quest under some arbitrary time limit and compete for the most points (notice this isn't even PvP?). Even if your game is turds easy, you introduce an aspect of competition that is (hopefully) fair, transparent (not like TA record times where only like 1% of the player base actually cares), and something that motivates people to improve.

Okay, so maybe competition and team drama isn't your cup of tea. So then, at this point, what are you playing for? Well judging from most people here who seem to be obsessed with PSO1 legacy rares, you're most likely in it for the RNG rare weapon hunt. Fair enough, but that's really hard to justify when 80% of the weapons are recolors, weapon potentials are all copies of skill trees, 10*s typically only drop to people who DON'T hunt for them, you'll probably find a 10* you weren't looking for first BUT you can't trade it, weapons are mainly only distinguishable by ATK, AND (the real kicker) practically every weapon becomes obsolete in a month or 2 anyways.

There are so many other issues with this game though, it's baffling:
-Extremely cookie cutter builds -> no unique playstyles
-Lack of incentive to customize PA combo chains -> same PAs are overused again and again
-Mobs are too easy to kill -> ranged classes are overpowered
-Rare weapons are unevenly distributed among maps -> no one plays the game anymore aside from TACOs (which is a chore when not competitve) and EQs
-Team Rankings are pointless -> no sense of reputation or rivalry
-Too RNG-reliant content like Parallel Areas and Darker's Den -> underutilized because very few people care about them
-Best units in the game are, aside from Black Wings, all "boss hides" -> looks hideous and everyone just hides them, meaning appearance is not tied to armor at all

[Rien]

Honestly, if they just had ONE map that was extremely hard and needed top of the line gear, proper skill trees, legitimate party structure, and reasonable execution, then already their game longevity increases tenfold. You have a reason to search for good rares and up your game because you have a goal to look forward to accomplishing. One could argue that is what AQ is supposed to be like...

There is one close enough, though I'm not sure about the legitimate party structure part.

Darker Den.

...Unfortunately it's only accessible through RNG systems so even the overqualified don't ever see it.

[Soultrigger]

There is one close enough, though I'm not sure about the legitimate party structure part.

Darker Den.

Accomplishments are relative. If the majority of the playerbase is capable of running Darker's Den to completion, then that isn't a feat worth mentioning. Even if RNG was a hassle, I would be motivated to do it if very few people lived to tell the tale. But if everyone can do it, why bother? So I can get a guaranteed rare spawn of a few monsters that probably won't drop anything? So I can get cloned when the clone will just get deleted after some time period?

The only justification it has is to play "new and exciting" content, which quite frankly is pretty sad since it comes with the admission that the rest of the game is dead.

[Agitated_AT]

I told someone else the same thing, but this game is really all flash and no substance. SEGA tries to cater to casual players by setting the entry barrier really low, but what you end up with is a really shallow game that is completely superficial in terms of content. It's no surprise that any new content generates interest for about a few days then quickly declines from there.

Honestly, if they just had ONE map that was extremely hard and needed top of the line gear, proper skill trees, legitimate party structure, and reasonable execution, then already their game longevity increases tenfold. You have a reason to search for good rares and up your game because you have a goal to look forward to accomplishing. One could argue that is what AQ is supposed to be like, but knowing SEGA, I completely expect it to be set spawns with slightly more HP, slightly more ATK, and different loot tables. And from there, the whole cycle repeats with a short burst of interest followed by exponential decline.

Okay, maybe a "too hard" quest would be controversial by JP player standards. So then how about Team-based interrupt rankings where Team-restricted MPAs run a premade quest under some arbitrary time limit and compete for the most points (notice this isn't even PvP?). Even if your game is turds easy, you introduce an aspect of competition that is (hopefully) fair, transparent (not like TA record times where only like 1% of the player base actually cares), and something that motivates people to improve.

Okay, so maybe competition and team drama isn't your cup of tea. So then, at this point, what are you playing for? Well judging from most people here who seem to be obsessed with PSO1 legacy rares, you're most likely in it for the RNG rare weapon hunt. Fair enough, but that's really hard to justify when 80% of the weapons are recolors, weapon potentials are all copies of skill trees, 10*s typically only drop to people who DON'T hunt for them, you'll probably find a 10* you weren't looking for first BUT you can't trade it, weapons are mainly only distinguishable by ATK, AND (the real kicker) practically every weapon becomes obsolete in a month or 2 anyways.

There are so many other issues with this game though, it's baffling:
-Extremely cookie cutter builds -> no unique playstyles
-Lack of incentive to customize PA combo chains -> same PAs are overused again and again
-Mobs are too easy to kill -> ranged classes are overpowered
-Rare weapons are unevenly distributed among maps -> no one plays the game anymore aside from TACOs (which is a chore when not competitve) and EQs
-Team Rankings are pointless -> no sense of reputation or rivalry
-Too RNG-reliant content like Parallel Areas and Darker's Den -> underutilized because very few people care about them
-Best units in the game are, aside from Black Wings, all "boss hides" -> looks hideous and everyone just hides them, meaning appearance is not tied to armor at all
Got nothing to add to this. Great post. It seems we think very alike and I would hope more would but I wonder how many people would actually apreciate such changes. I'm not sure because I see very few people mentioning it.

Most complaints I see around here are about how RNG ruins peoples experience in collecting rares and grind them to +10. While I understand the complaint, the thing i'll never understand is how that part is ruining the game "right now". Because really it doesn't. Obviously it would have if it was required to achieve said goals (making hard content accesable). But now it just seems like self created goals which outcome is to only make the game even more boring. But yeah soloing bosses can be quite harsh so I guess that seems like a good reason.

I feel like a lot of people are finding the game boring but don't really know why that's the case. Like they can't really put their finger on it and then just ramble about issues that are the outcome of the main issues in the core.

One thing I disagree with though is the competition part. I don't care and won't ever care about competition. I also don't wanna be forced into a competition. So far i've been underpowering myself on purpose to keep the gameplay interesting, when I play.

[Kion]

My main problem is that the game gives you nothing to look forward to. PSU at least gave you the sense that there were always new areas and new lobbies. PSO had the large columns you had to activate to get into the ruins. Both had a lot of clues environmentally about what was going to happen in the universe and anticipate it. Pso2 has a lot of dialog exposition. As I'm translating it I'm finding it interesting to say the least, but it's still doesn't seem like effective story telling.

[EvilMag]

You seem to forget that this is Sega and they never made true difficulty. Only fake difficulty.

I'd rather have the game be painfully easy than bullshit hard.

[Agitated_AT]

You seem to forget that this is Sega and they never made true difficulty. Only fake difficulty.

I'd rather have the game be painfully easy than bullshit hard.

You mean like every SEGA game is like that?

Anyway no, there doesn't have to be a choice between either fake difficulty or painfully easy because a previous installment had some of it. That's like saying, we have to keep an aspect bad because it was bad before. Why not have an improved fair challenge instead

[Rien]

Accomplishments are relative. If the majority of the playerbase is capable of running Darker's Den to completion, then that isn't a feat worth mentioning. Even if RNG was a hassle, I would be motivated to do it if very few people lived to tell the tale. But if everyone can do it, why bother? So I can get a guaranteed rare spawn of a few monsters that probably won't drop anything? So I can get cloned when the clone will just get deleted after some time period?

The only justification it has is to play "new and exciting" content, which quite frankly is pretty sad since it comes with the admission that the rest of the game is dead.

While the majority of the (appropriately-leveled) playerbase is able to complete it, those who have had the luck to access it don't. Maybe surprise is a difficulty in itself?

[MetalDude]

If the supposed Ultimate mode in the future doesn't take a PSO1 approach to it and also add new attacks to most enemies on top of it, I really don't think this game will grow much more.

[UnLucky]

If Ultimate doesn't have new enemy types in every each map, I'm done. I want new natives, new planet specific darkers, and no reskins. And a new area with no reused mobs.

But that's as likely as the NA release being up to date with the JP version.

[Flame]

Got nothing to add to this. Great post. It seems we think very alike and I would hope more would but I wonder how many people would actually apreciate such changes. I'm not sure because I see very few people mentioning it.

Most complaints I see around here are about how RNG ruins peoples experience in collecting rares and grind them to +10. While I understand the complaint, the thing i'll never understand is how that part is ruining the game "right now". Because really it doesn't. Obviously it would have if it was required to achieve said goals (making hard content accesable). But now it just seems like self created goals which outcome is to only make the game even more boring. But yeah soloing bosses can be quite harsh so I guess that seems like a good reason.

I feel like a lot of people are finding the game boring but don't really know why that's the case. Like they can't really put their finger on it and then just ramble about issues that are the outcome of the main issues in the core.

One thing I disagree with though is the competition part. I don't care and won't ever care about competition. I also don't wanna be forced into a competition. So far i've been underpowering myself on purpose to keep the gameplay interesting, when I play.


I see you often cite difficulty and challenge as the main reason the game sucks but I have to disagree. A game being hard isn't what makes it fun. A number of very excellent games are of what I'd classify as "medium" difficulty. This game's problem is a combination of poor design decisions, terrible progression, and a F2P business model. The general balance of effort vs reward in this game is extremely skewed. Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Quartz Dragon and the Snow Banthas are plenty difficult, thank you very much.

[Shadowth117]

If Ultimate doesn't have new enemy types in every each map, I'm done. I want new natives, new planet specific darkers, and no reskins. And a new area with no reused mobs.

But that's as likely as the NA release being up to date with the JP version.

Well, based on the schedule we WILL have a new area with that update. Although you have give them some leeway; PSO ultimate enemies were reskins, even if some had new attacks. That's something you ought to expect either way.

[MetalDude]

Having new models over the same enemies at least gave some level of separation between Ult and everything else, even if that kind of thing wears off. The sheer moving speed and amount of HP, despite being a rather simple change, did a lot to make Ult mode enemies a lot more threatening (and Ob Lilies, fucking Ob Lilies).

[Shadowth117]

Having new models over the same enemies at least gave some level of separation between Ult and everything else, even if that kind of thing wears off. The sheer moving speed and amount of HP, despite being a rather simple change, did a lot to make Ult mode enemies a lot more threatening (and Ob Lilies, fucking Ob Lilies).

Yep. And its likely we'll see *something* interesting in this way with the difficulty update since Ultimate was essentially S rank in PSU and both games got new enemy model variants as well as behaviors for some enemies at that point.

[Blundy]

with the pace of the game picking up in the sequal (more actioney/faster/ect) the maps don't feel as big and i think the exploration as a result suffers.

in pso when you went into the ruins you knew you were going to be in there awhile and it was going to be an adventure.

we've also got less corridors/doors in general which i think contributes to the feel.

even so, i enjoy this game.

[Soultrigger]

I see you often cite difficulty and challenge as the main reason the game sucks but I have to disagree. A game being hard isn't what makes it fun. A number of very excellent games are of what I'd classify as "medium" difficulty. This game's problem is a combination of poor design decisions, terrible progression, and a F2P business model. The general balance of effort vs reward in this game is extremely skewed. Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Quartz Dragon and the Snow Banthas are plenty difficult, thank you very much.

Yes...and no. Yes in that a game can be fun without being hard (e.g Pokemon), but no in that the difficulty IS pretty much the core issue.

PSO2's core appeal is hunting for rares to show off to other people. But really, how is this showing off done? AFK'ing in the lobby? Shaving 15 seconds off EQ Vardha or Elder Falz? Killing MPA mobs an eighth of a second faster?

If PSO2 had some other kind of legitimate appeal (inb4waifusimulator), then of course the difficulty wouldn't be an issue. But since this isn't the case, what else would you point your finger at for the game being lackluster? A lot of the things you stated are very general, but fixing them won't change the game in the long run. If anything, they'd just make a game already extremely accessible even more accessible. They amplify the problems, but they themselves are not the problem. For example: sense of progression? Progressing towards what? There is no progress because there is no goal, except one you artificially made yourself.

Quartz and Banther have been out for over half a year. Their VH modification was taking their H mode, calling it VH and tweaking a few numbers, made H and N modes easier, then called it a day. I don't recall a single time I failed a quest because my party was insufficiently geared. And I shouldn't be able to, considering the option to return to campship and return with 5 Moon Atomizers always exists.

And then there's the fact that RaFi and GuRa can absolutely destroy them in less than a minute. Difficult to the inexperienced, but what about the experienced?

[Icyflamez96]

We're just rerunning the same areas, same missions, same everything with little variety. You'll understand when you play.

Well it has to have more variety than the PSU demo which kept me occupied for a year and a half right?....

How is this game compared to the PSU demo? I've been asking everywhere. Here, on other sites etc... And no one has been answering my question :/

I mean, I usually add it in a post with multiple questions and they just skip that part...

Maybe I should just make a topic on it...

[Flame]

Yes...and no. Yes in that a game can be fun without being hard (e.g Pokemon), but no in that the difficulty IS pretty much the core issue.

PSO2's core appeal is hunting for rares to show off to other people. But really, how is this showing off done? AFK'ing in the lobby? Shaving 15 seconds off EQ Vardha or Elder Falz? Killing MPA mobs an eighth of a second faster?

If PSO2 had some other kind of legitimate appeal (inb4waifusimulator), then of course the difficulty wouldn't be an issue. But since this isn't the case, what else would you point your finger at for the game being lackluster? A lot of the things you stated are very general, but fixing them won't change the game in the long run. If anything, they'd just make a game already extremely accessible even more accessible. They amplify the problems, but they themselves are not the problem. For example: sense of progression? Progressing towards what? There is no progress because there is no goal, except one you artificially made yourself.

Quartz and Banther have been out for over half a year. Their VH modification was taking their H mode, calling it VH and tweaking a few numbers, made H and N modes easier, then called it a day. I don't recall a single time I failed a quest because my party was insufficiently geared. And I shouldn't be able to, considering the option to return to campship and return with 5 Moon Atomizers always exists.

And then there's the fact that RaFi and GuRa can absolutely destroy them in less than a minute. Difficult to the inexperienced, but what about the experienced?

You really think having enemies be more frustrating is the answer?

These games don't need more "hardcore appeal", they just need to be fun to play! The original PSO1 wasn't necessarily very challenging yet is positively revered by most of the gaming population. I absolutely reject the idea that this game's accessibility is what's making it lackluster. Nintendo games are amazing and are RARELY difficult. The problem here is that the game itself is boring, unrewarding, and pointless. In PSO1 you were ultimately beating a game. There was a beginning, middle, and end to the experience. PSO2's final boss is accessible. . . AT FLIPPING RANDOM. I can't imagine a less satisfying way to present content than what's being done right now. Everything this game does presents content in an extremely unsatisfying manner. Buying the weapons you need from player shops is the biggest boner kill yet. I remember how exciting it used to be to find a better weapon on the ground and to be only one or two levels away from using it. No such feeling exists in PSO2. Before I stopped playing I remember finding a 6 star mechgun that I was almost 6 or 7 levels away from using at lv 40 which meant I wouldn't even be able to touch said weapon for about 150 hours. AND IT ONLY ADDED ABOUT 50 PTS OF ATP! Mixed with the fact that PSO2 doesn't even have levels or dungeons (randomly generated rooms are an abomination) and you've got yourself a poorly crafted experience that no amount of difficulty would save. It would just make the unbearable even worse.

so uh, yeah. The game is broken, not the difficulty.

[Jim]

Well it has to have more variety than the PSU demo which kept me occupied for a year and a half right?....

How is this game compared to the PSU demo? I've been asking everywhere. Here, on other sites etc... And no one has been answering my question :/

I mean, I usually add it in a post with multiple questions and they just skip that part...

Maybe I should just make a topic on it...

I played the XBL PSU demo. If that's what you're used to, PSO2 will melt your face with it's awesome. Try it, duder. And PM me if you need help with anything PSO2-related.

[Soultrigger]

You really think having enemies be more frustrating is the answer?

These games don't need more "hardcore appeal", they just need to be fun to play! The original PSO1 wasn't necessarily very challenging yet is positively revered by most of the gaming population. I absolutely reject the idea that this game's accessibility is what's making it lackluster. Nintendo games are amazing and are RARELY difficult. The problem here is that the game itself is boring, unrewarding, and pointless. In PSO1 you were ultimately beating a game. There was a beginning, middle, and end to the experience. PSO2's final boss is accessible. . . AT FLIPPING RANDOM. I can't imagine a less satisfying way to present content than what's being done right now. Everything this game does presents content in an extremely unsatisfying manner. Buying the weapons you need from player shops is the biggest boner kill yet. I remember how exciting it used to be to find a better weapon on the ground and to be only one or two levels away from using it. No such feeling exists in PSO2. Before I stopped playing I remember finding a 6 star mechgun that I was almost 6 or 7 levels away from using at lv 40 which meant I wouldn't even be able to touch said weapon for about 150 hours. AND IT ONLY ADDED ABOUT 50 PTS OF ATP! Mixed with the fact that PSO2 doesn't even have levels or dungeons (randomly generated rooms are an abomination) and you've got yourself a poorly crafted experience that no amount of difficulty would save. It would just make the unbearable even worse.

so uh, yeah. The game is broken, not the difficulty.

While I do agree with a lot of your post, I feel like you didn't actually refute my point at all, instead using irrelevant yet valid arguments to sidetrack the issue of difficulty and then accepting the status quo on the basis you found other problems.

The fallacy in this is that the problems you stated, if "fixed", won't change anything. Do you want every weapon to be leagues better than each other? Do you want the level cap to be less grindy? Do you want Falz to be openly accessible at any given time?

Make weapon attack difference apparent in strength -> worsen the problem of only using BiS.
Level cap easier to reach -> you'll just quit faster, not like there's an end game
Falz repeatable -> it'd be the same as having another boss

And I don't understand why it's such a bad thing to appeal to hardcores (Just an fyi, this game doesn't cater at all to hardcores). Which playerbase makes a [good] game last long, the casuals or hardcore? Take SSBM and SSBB, both Nintendo games, and their longevity. While neither of them were made with the competitive audience in mind, Melee's quirky physics exploits allowed for a much more fluid style of play, allowing it to become highly competitive. Even to this day, I can find people still interested in Melee because of how gratifying it can be to play on a high level. But Brawl? The game lost interest in about a year and anyone still playing is either a very small percentage of the hardcore or people who refuse to learn Melee.

Pokemon has its appeal of cute animals, a linear quest, and even a competitive side. Metroid has its appeal in atmosphere, exploration, and even speedrun/item-minimalist challenge. Fire Emblem has a multitude of characters/classes and a linear story/quest. Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, the list goes on. But the key difference is that none of these are MMOs. They're linear games meant to be experienced the same way for everybody. PSO2 and PSO1 are not that, they're meant to be played over and over again, that's just the nature of MMO games in general. Point being is, while you CAN have a game that isn't hard indeed be fun, I implore you to suggest what PSO2 SHOULD be doing without needing to spend a large budget doing a complete overhaul that would somehow make it infinitely more appealing than it is now.

[Yunfa]

^ Meanwhile you still log in for a healthy 40+ hours a week lol

[Soultrigger]

Ad hominem much?

[Zyrusticae]

Man, you guys are a bigger buzz-kill than Buzz Killington.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f68VXKMZT1Q

[Flame]

While I do agree with a lot of your post, I feel like you didn't actually refute my point at all, instead using irrelevant yet valid arguments to sidetrack the issue of difficulty and then accepting the status quo on the basis you found other problems.

The fallacy in this is that the problems you stated, if "fixed", won't change anything. Do you want every weapon to be leagues better than each other? Do you want the level cap to be less grindy? Do you want Falz to be openly accessible at any given time?

Make weapon attack difference apparent in strength -> worsen the problem of only using BiS.
Level cap easier to reach -> you'll just quit faster, not like there's an end game
Falz repeatable -> it'd be the same as having another boss

And I don't understand why it's such a bad thing to appeal to hardcores (Just an fyi, this game doesn't cater at all to hardcores). Which playerbase makes a [good] game last long, the casuals or hardcore? Take SSBM and SSBB, both Nintendo games, and their longevity. While neither of them were made with the competitive audience in mind, Melee's quirky physics exploits allowed for a much more fluid style of play, allowing it to become highly competitive. Even to this day, I can find people still interested in Melee because of how gratifying it can be to play on a high level. But Brawl? The game lost interest in about a year and anyone still playing is either a very small percentage of the hardcore or people who refuse to learn Melee.

Pokemon has its appeal of cute animals, a linear quest, and even a competitive side. Metroid has its appeal in atmosphere, exploration, and even speedrun/item-minimalist challenge. Fire Emblem has a multitude of characters/classes and a linear story/quest. Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, the list goes on. But the key difference is that none of these are MMOs. They're linear games meant to be experienced the same way for everybody. PSO2 and PSO1 are not that, they're meant to be played over and over again, that's just the nature of MMO games in general. Point being is, while you CAN have a game that isn't hard indeed be fun, I implore you to suggest what PSO2 SHOULD be doing without needing to spend a large budget doing a complete overhaul that would somehow make it infinitely more appealing than it is now.

I did refute your argument. I said making the game more difficult would only make it worse.

I don't have a suggestion as to how they could fix what they have currently because they've completely abandoned trying to make a fun video game in favor of one that can potentially live forever. PSO1 couldn't actually be called a true MMORPG. Instead, it was more of a multiplayer action rpg that happened to be online. Much like the diablo franchise. It was a game first, an online addiction second. PSO2 is designed to be an online addiction but is a terrible game on its own.

What the game NEEDS are

- fully designed dungeons with a sense of atmosphere/adventure.
- self improvement benchmarks that are plentiful and rewarding.
- level progression that isn't designed to inhibit you and make the process as slow as possible (when I beat a level, I damn well deserve to move to the next one without clearing some ridiculous collectathon client order)

I really don't see any of these things happening without a complete change of staff and a completely new game. These guys have been goofing up the franchise in a major way since PSU. Something about PSO made you eager to replay the game over and over. The developers need to make their game fun enough to keep players coming back in the same fashion. Games like Dark Souls are their own kind of fun, but not every game needs that level of sadism in it.

PS. What is BiS?

[BIG OLAF]

Looks like someone is...

...

...stoking the Flame.

[UnLucky]

Dark Falz is a step in the right direction.

I want more fights like De Rol Le and Vol Opt.

And trash that's more engaging and not the same enemies I've been fighting since day one.

[Flame]

Looks like someone is...

...

...stoking the Flame.

http://www.indiepundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/citizen-kane-clapping-gif.gif

[Soultrigger]

I did refute your argument. I said making the game more difficult would only make it worse.

I disagree with you here, but since this is mostly subjective, I'm going to save my breath trying to convince you otherwise. That, and derailing the topic even further is probably not a good idea.


I don't have a suggestion as to how they could fix ... PSO2 is designed to be an online addiction but is a terrible game on its own.

Agreed. Too late for a drastic change like that though, I only bring up issues I feel could be solved rather easily if they actually cared rather than dwell on things they should've done on the drawing board (like making this game buy to play instead).



- fully designed dungeons with a sense of atmosphere/adventure.
- self improvement benchmarks that are plentiful and rewarding.
- level progression that isn't designed to inhibit you and make the process as slow as possible (when I beat a level, I damn well deserve to move to the next one without clearing some ridiculous collectathon client order)


This is an educated guess, but my understanding is that you either gave up on the game prior to endgame or quit soon after reaching it.

I think level progressing in this game is really bad myself, but since 80%+ of the playerbase is at endgame, the core issues are there as they relate to the majority. The issues you bring up deal more with attracting new players, which is important, but if there's a problem with endgame, then there's a fundamental problem with the game that makes playing it (and by extension, leveling up) hard to justify.

[Flame]

This is an educated guess, but my understanding is that you either gave up on the game prior to endgame or quit soon after reaching it.

I think level progressing in this game is really bad myself, but since 80%+ of the playerbase is at endgame, the core issues are there as they relate to the majority. The issues you bring up deal more with attracting new players, which is important, but if there's a problem with endgame, then there's a fundamental problem with the game that makes playing it (and by extension, leveling up) hard to justify.

Fair enough. Yeah, I stopped played right when the falz boss fight was introduced. I did it once or twice, turned the game off, cried myself to sleep and haven't touched it since.

Anyway, here's to you OP. Have a blast!

[jerrykun]

Fair enough. Yeah, I stopped played right when the falz boss fight was introduced. I did it once or twice, turned the game off, cried myself to sleep and haven't touched it since.

Anyway, here's to you OP. Have a blast!

Guess we are the total opposite, the moment I heard I could fight Dark Falz I got really excited, I was level 9. This is the best boss fight I've ever had (phase 1, the hands) those attacks were so nasty that I was dying too much (I enjoy when I die in games, it makes them difficult, challenging, and fun!), also the song! OMG the theme song! hearing it was a remix of Pry, for 'IDOLA' I was getting goosebumps every time I heard it, I was so excited that I downloaded it right after the event finished.

This game is awesome, I stopped playing any other game just to focus on PSO2, it's been a while since I don't find a game like this.

I don't care if others say they're bored or don't find the game attractive anymore, this is what happens when you start worrying too much about game mechanics and numbers, well, guess what, fk that!
You can JUMP, you can friggin JUMP! in a PSO game! Of course this is a good game upgrade, unlike FIFA and COD games that keep releasing the same sht over and over, this game is a REAL upgrade of the old ones, really enjoying it, if you can't see the fun on it you're just a bored person IMO.

[Chik'Tikka]

Guess we are the total opposite, the moment I heard I could fight Dark Falz I got really excited, I was level 9. This is the best boss fight I've ever had (phase 1, the hands) those attacks were so nasty that I was dying too much (I enjoy when I die in games, it makes them difficult, challenging, and fun!), also the song! OMG the theme song! hearing it was a remix of Pry, for 'IDOLA' I was getting goosebumps every time I heard it, I was so excited that I downloaded it right after the event finished.

This game is awesome, I stopped playing any other game just to focus on PSO2, it's been a while since I don't find a game like this.

I don't care if others say they're bored or don't find the game attractive anymore, this is what happens when you start worrying too much about game mechanics and numbers, well, guess what, fk that!
You can JUMP, you can friggin JUMP! in a PSO game! Of course this is a good game upgrade, unlike FIFA and COD games that keep releasing the same sht over and over, this game is a REAL upgrade of the old ones, really enjoying it, if you can't see the fun on it you're just a bored person IMO.

THSI^ ^ ^ +^_^+ jump and dodge alone make this ten times better then before+^_^+ only gripe i has (and it's a temporary one) is the lack of a beach lobby, or hot springs+^_^+

[MetalDude]

It will definitely take you a while to get tired of it. I mean, the game pulled around 800 hours out of me before I finally started playing it a lot less per week. However, the plans for content up until summer is not especially promising...

[jerrykun]

It will definitely take you a while to get tired of it. I mean, the game pulled around 800 hours out of me before I finally started playing it a lot less per week. However, the plans for content up until summer is not especially promising...

Yep, I think I started playing at the right time, I've still got a lot of content to play ahead.

These kind of games aren't meant to be played religiously, at least I don't see pro players advertisement or tournaments of any kind, I think that SEGA should work on something like this and relate it somehow to the rank system just to keep full geared players (you know, the kind that thinks end game is PvP) busy between content releases.

If I was SEGA, I would be worried about keeping busy the players that already finished everything, it would keep their players loyal and willingly to pay for fun stuff. In this kind of Free to Play scheme, the only time I think players consider paying for something is when they're already hooked to the game somehow, be it for looks or anything else it means you're enjoying the game and you don't mind dropping a few bucks on it.

[MetalDude]

Well, take PSO1 where leveling becomes mostly irrelevant past 120 (earlier if you have super good gear you passed onto this character). The fundamental reason as to why you would keep playing is because a good chunk of weaponry added a viable tool to your kit; the damage on weapons like Frozen Shooter and Spread Needle is rather poor; Heaven Striker and Baranz Launcher/Charge Arms are both far superior for raw damage dealing in the same weapon class. It's what they added onto how you handled enemies that changes everything. RA and FO had probably the biggest variety in utility gear to look for, FO gear usually dealing with elemental or support boosts (especially the changes to them on a certain server). RA was as extensive or as compact as you wanted it to be. You could stick to just Froozer, Needle, and mechguns or you could go with Froozer, Snow Queen, Needle, Charge Arms, S-Rank Needle, NUG or Cannon Rouge, Heaven Striker, Guld Milla/MM/Dual Bird, and still more. Even weapons within the same class could have subtle differences that entirely separate it (Spread Needle is classified as a Rifle, but has Mechgun range and launches Shot projectiles). Specials and same-type weapon differences really helped define and promote high weapon variety, something that the former is hugely taken advantage of and proven by with the S-Rank weapons.

There are some core issues as to why PSO2 can't currently and probably never will fulfill this, the first part being trading. Trading was a massive part of PSO1; meseta was nearly useless (minus mag feeding and Charge spam) and Photon Drops served a fairly useful but not always 100% desired purpose (primarily late game 12* weaponry) so trading was a big part of that. Player Shops kind of immediately fucked this up. Meseta is now valuable, yes, but the value in hunting things dropped substantially. So then they locked 10*'s, but then what happens if you're running in a party (which generates more enemies per spawn thus being in your benefit to do) and someone finds what you're looking for and they don't benefit? Well fuck you. There's no sort of remedy for this. They got lucky when they didn't need it and you both feel like trash. Nobody ends up happy from this outcome.

The second part is that latent abilities are half-hearted, poorly implemented effort to add value onto certain weapons in the way that specials on weapons did in PSO1. The least creative ones are passives based entirely off of skills. The Just Attack ones are probably the most useful in making 9* weapons a good, sometimes better substitute than a 10* (depending on ease of achieving 50 element). But most have either no latent ability or it looks like they dart-boarded the ability (Elder Rod having Halfline Slayer but still only with S and R atk, really?). Psycho Wand is probably the most useful out there being that it's the most powerful weapon in the game right now and the ability reduces PP usage by a %. That's it. No other weapon ability is game-changing in any way outside of Vroela's rare finding one which changes nothing about actually using the weapon for combat. It really doesn't help that Sakai mentioned adding abilities that raised damage using certain PAs. Hoo-rah.

These major issues don't really show until you hit the progression wall in this game. Much of the game plays fine and progresses decently up until you've picked up a 10* or two in VH and are wondering what to do next. In fact, part of why I stopped playing is that I couldn't sell a pair of Lambda Radeigles that I spent a pretty penny boosting them only to find out that they're worthless because people are now holding out for the Ishurai pyroxene weapon. Hunting is mostly pointless (outside of the weapons being exchanged and you can simply go earn money for the harder finds) at the moment as we're about to get far superior weaponry soon. The only productive thing I can think to do is clone hunting for Photon Spheres and I'm not even concerned about having any more money than the needed amount for Advanced Quests.

I know I sound overly negative, but I know you'll have a good time with this game for a good while. And again, this really won't occur to you until a good deal later.

[Agitated_AT]

I see you often cite difficulty and challenge as the main reason the game sucks but I have to disagree. A game being hard isn't what makes it fun. A number of very excellent games are of what I'd classify as "medium" difficulty. This game's problem is a combination of poor design decisions, terrible progression, and a F2P business model. The general balance of effort vs reward in this game is extremely skewed. Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Quartz Dragon and the Snow Banthas are plenty difficult, thank you very much.

Yeah i mentioned bosses as being fine in the previous post. I would agree with you about a lot of ofher things, like the game's presentation not being all that great. But overall i think the game isn't that bad. The random generated free field format is a strange one but also part of the core, hence unchangable. I try to stay realistic and tbh there are ways to make this format enjoyable, which is what i think especially if the game were to be consistently engaging. Like as in if the game continiously challenged you to become more powerful, using team work, tactics and the whole move arsenal. The bosses are right now the only part which fulfills that. And since the change of lvl requirements to pso1's method, this has been very noticable.

For example with my lvl 4 character i could go straight to tundra and not feel threatened on the free fields, but the bosses on the other hand? See if dealing with mobs wasnt just for lulz and loot. Engaging them would have more risk depending on the content/field. What would be even more greater is if mobs were similarly agressive to diablo and pso1. I would agree the ai in pso1 was simple, dumb. But man was it harsh. It didnt matter because you would expect "monsters" to act a similar way to that, instead of the dancing they like to do sometimes in pso2

Also lastly the AI being so passive, flinching and not instantly reacting to each attack makes this game a snoozefest to ranged classes. Ranged classes against mobs never have a real problem because they can move while they shoot. It makes sense that because of this a hunter's defence is much better than the other classes. But if the ai jumped at the ranged classes, that are shooting them in the back too, it would become a much more interesting experience.

Basically if this gets adressed, as soultrigger said, the game will become tenfold more enjoyable. And then we can worry about other things like how content is being added in the most rediculous fashion. "I'm looking a you parallel worlds and darkers den"

The advanced quests are a neat addition i think. I'll have to wait and see

[Z-0]

The past PS games weren't really hard at all, it's just that what you could do in them is what made them fun.

I don't see difficulty as a problem as I roflstomped everything in the past games, but I still had a truckload of fun. What I find fun in these games is improving yourself beyond getting "stronger gear", and thinking of innovative and unique ways to get around things. PSO1 was obviously the best at this, with many players carrying an arsenal of 10 or more weapons with each thing fulfilling different roles for different spawns in the many quests of the game.

Challenge Mode was the same. Not hard with a team of players, but there was always things to do and things to try to improve your time or get around things with minimal risk.

My problem with this game is that there's a lack of content to make you think a little. It doesn't have to be difficult content, but there's only a few things in the game that need thought if you want to improve yourself and feel like you're getting better at the game (TA Quests, Darker's Den, some bosses, and (hopefully), Advanced Quests). The core part of the game feels incredibly repetitive, it all feels the same and there is next to no variety. It might sound weird, but non-randomised content feels way more varied if you ask me.

[Kilich]

I just hope that whenever they make new enemies, they don't make them annoying, like darker fish that are, basically, moving projectiles, or Wolgahda that leaps around all the time.

[Agitated_AT]

The past PS games weren't really hard at all, it's just that what you could do in them is what made them fun.

I don't see difficulty as a problem as I roflstomped everything in the past games, but I still had a truckload of fun. What I find fun in these games is improving yourself beyond getting "stronger gear", and thinking of innovative and unique ways to get around things. PSO1 was obviously the best at this, with many players carrying an arsenal of 10 or more weapons with each thing fulfilling different roles for different spawns in the many quests of the game.

Challenge Mode was the same. Not hard with a team of players, but there was always things to do and things to try to improve your time or get around things with minimal risk.

My problem with this game is that there's a lack of content to make you think a little. It doesn't have to be difficult content, but there's only a few things in the game that need thought if you want to improve yourself and feel like you're getting better at the game (TA Quests, Darker's Den, some bosses, and (hopefully), Advanced Quests). The core part of the game feels incredibly repetitive, it all feels the same and there is next to no variety. It might sound weird, but non-randomised content feels way more varied if you ask me.

Yeah. Really when I use the word difficult i simpl mean challenging or engaging, as you said simply to keep you thinking and alert. Not making it too tough. I do think around the end of hard it should start to feel that way. The charm of games with a level system is that nothing stays too hard when you reach a certain level