Do you think it bothers the JP players we're here?

[Redboigoi]

Sometimes I have a hard time seeing..

[BIG OLAF]

Then you should get glasses.

[Z-0]

Then you should get glasses.
+1

But it depends. Does it bother you when foreign players are about when on a Western Server? I know it does to some people, and it's probably the same here. Some care, some don't, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[RedRaz0r]

+1

But it depends. Does it bother you when foreign players are about when on a Western Server? I know it does to some people, and it's probably the same here. Some care, some don't, and there's nothing you can do about it.

It's only bothersome on games where communication is key. I.E League of Legends NA, with all the Brazilians on it.

No it doesn't bother them on a game like PSO2, the more the merrier.

[Tachesis]

This is one of those questions that can only be answered by statistics.

Most probably don't care one way or the other. Some may welcome it, and some revile it.

The other side of this coin is that the majority of interactions like this is when someone is opinionated enough to break the language barrier. That said, it naturally follows that what we end up seeing is either people being nice, or mean, as the silent majority is even more silent. Language barrier, again.

[CelestialBlade]

You could ask them.

[blace]

It's only bothersome on games where communication is key. I.E League of Legends NA, with all the Brazilians on it.

No it doesn't bother them on a game like PSO2, the more the merrier.

It depends on their view. In the ToS we're not supposed to connect to the servers from outside Japan and they see it as us being invasive.

A view times playing on other blocks in MPAs, it goes from full to empty fairly quickly, when they notice more english speaking players taking up space.

[Z-0]

I notice MPAs go empty as soon as someone speaks English. Not necessarily when it's full of EN people, as I've took parties in MPAs and it's been fine, but sometimes I feel like they're bothered.

[Shirai]

Yes, of course it bothers them. x:

It may not bother some, but for the most part they want to us to stay out of their way.
If you can not understand them in in some parties, they have a tendency to ask about it and then kick you or something along those lines.
Explains why there's Japanese only parties, and recently I've seen Japanese players direct non-japanese players to go to B20.

I miss the times from JP PSU where it was okay to join a Japanese party without being asked if you're Japanese from the start.

[Redboigoi]

Yes, of course it bothers them. x:

It may not bother some, but for the most part they want to us to stay out of their way.
If you can not understand them in in some parties, they have a tendency to ask about it and then kick you or something along those lines.
Explains why there's Japanese only parties, and recently I've seen Japanese players direct non-japanese players to go to B20.

I miss the times from JP PSU where it was okay to join a Japanese party without being asked if you're Japanese from the start.

Yeah.. and PSO dreamcast days. I made so many long time friends from PSO DC days..Like some of them asked for my address and sent me game books and all. lol

[NoiseHERO]

If it does bother them, then they're the kind of person I want to feel bothered.

Dazzit.

Buy the mixtape.

[Punisher106]

I've had a run-in with rather wanna-get-to-know-you JP players. And to be honest, they're quite friendly, despite the fact that I was an english player. I just said, in japanese, "I'm afraid I know little japanese. I speak english, and my autowords are english. Are you okay with me turning them on?" And they're like "Yeah, sure", and they really speak in english for the rest of the time the party's together. I usually play alone, unless invited in an MPA, and I just remain quiet, and lend a hand.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

I only talked to one JP player, and all he said was that he liked the screenshots I post on the Tumbles

[Shirai]

Yeah.. and PSO dreamcast days. I made so many long time friends from PSO DC days..Like some of them asked for my address and sent me game books and all. lol

Aw, that's sweet lol

I remembered in JP PSU, they told me to get a new PC since they worried about me not getting any experience since I apparently lagged so much, lol.
I still play with Japanese players, but I wish I knew more Japanese. Since it just seems slightly awkward.

[Xaeris]

I join quite a few Japanese rooms for AQs. I always use my translated "I don't speak Japanese, is it all right if I play with you?" shortcut and I've only once been turned away. And in that instance, I'm not even 100% sure I was being turned away. Google Translate wasn't terribly clear, so I just assumed the worst.

[Krank32oz]

I have not played the Japanese version of PSO2. I'm just waiting for the US version so I cant really reminisce on any experiences I have had with the players but if the community is anything like the Dreamcast community I don't see why they would be upset. Ive played a lot of online games and the people I have met while played PSO have always been the best.

[GuardianGirth]

No one cares. If they did, we wouldn't be in the game.

[blace]

The free to play model brings in a wide spectrum of people. Because of that, there are hackers taking residence and countless bots being banned on a monthly basis. Some time ago, China was IP banned from the game due to the bots originating from Chinese IPs.

I will keep saying this as well, the ToS does forbid connecting to the server from outside Japan. It may not be as frowned upon in PSU, but there is quite a bit of dissent from the current Japanese population.

[Syklo]

Sort of depends which ship you're on too.
on 8: Not many people seemed to be bothered by non-japanese speakers entering in their parties (not that I do so myself; too scared), and if some JP player enters our party, it's generally "Greet, greet > Turn off autowords" (I have at least 1 autoword for each event so you could probably imagine) and basically be quiet for the rest of the run.

It doesn't bother me if some foreigner comes in and says "Can't speak english well, can i still come", it only bothers me if they turn out to be complete morons and idiots in combat, even if they are native-english-speakers.

[UnLucky]

I'm bothered by the English speaking community being here :nono:

Like sure, they'd rather you speak Japanese but most people don't talk at all anyway. Though most of the ones who are bothered with it still wouldn't speak up, they'd rather just keep it to themselves and/or drop party.

Anyone who really doesn't want foreigners will set a Japanese password.

And it's not like speaking English automatically means you can't live within Japan.

[Emizel]

I don't think they care. when there's an english server they might tell us to gtfo though :etongue:

[Lostbob117]

Yes, you guys chat openly. Of course that would bother some of them.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I see a mixed bag. Some of them run screaming as soon as they find out you're not Japanese. Many people I meet though make an effort to speak to me in English when they find out I'm American even though I do my best to speak to them in Japanese. At this point I promptly thank them for the effort and tell them I'll do my best to keep up with instructions. I actually get a lot of praise from my party members both for making an effort to speak Japanese and for kicking ass. Statistically I get more friend requests from Japanese players than NA/EU players who actually invite me to come play with them. Moreso now than ever before with the advent of AQs.

[raiden55]

Those who care are either worried that we are hackers, or that we won't understand each other at all.
during PSO DC, I was mostly playing on JP ships at the end, cause EU and US ships were always full of cheaters, while JP ones hadn't any, and you don't need to talk if you have enough chats symbols.
But on DC JP it was world servers, here we are on their servers, so it's not really the same thing...

[Emizel]

true. I got much more friend requests from japanese users, and team requests too.

japanese players like me much more than the english community does

then again... most of the english/b20 community uses hacks. They don't like me because I'm anti-cheats.

[Renvalt]

true. I got much more friend requests from japanese users, and team requests too.

japanese players like me much more than the english community does

then again... most of the english/b20 community uses hacks. They don't like me because I'm anti-cheats.

That's me as well. And speaking of Japanese players....

I got this extremely random friend request from a Japanese person. I accepted it only because it would've felt evil not to, and because I honestly felt like I could use any friends of the Japanese sort that I find.

My inability to speak Japanese prevents me from speaking at all, simply because I know little Japanese, and what Japanese I DO know is so amateurish I should be slaughtered for being a weeaboo gaijin (figuratively speaking).

So this... was an interesting turn of events. That said, their ARKS card is unreadable to the point where even on Lexilogos, I can't type the translation without wasting at least 5 minutes on one line (and don't even get me started on Kanji).

If you guys are interested in telling me what their card says, here's the card below (although I feel like this is an invasion of privacy, so I'll post it in a spoiler box).

[SPOILER-BOX]http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/3167/pso20130223175719001.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

The weird bits are that:

1)The friend invite came out of nowhere, least AFAIK.
2)They have an English username, which threw me off even further.
3)Their Arks card is entirely Japanese (save for the username), which again, throws me way off.

Other than being a savior and healing/rezzing people just because I can't stand empty health bars, I have no idea what would prompt a Japanese person to befriend someone as foreign as me.

[Syklo]

Wow so that's the new arks card design? awesome~~~

Anyway it says something about doing a freedom team.... and that's all I can get :S

btw how the heck do you have 664 HP at lv26?

[KuroCrow]

Wow so that's the new arks card design? awesome~~~

Anyway it says something about doing a freedom team.... and that's all I can get :S

btw how the heck do you have 664 HP at lv26?

lol good point

[Keyblade59]

I wouldn't say that in the least, they even helped me out in the beg. They welcome our presence, to an extent.

As long as American Manifest Destiny doesn't kick in.

[Renvalt]

Wow so that's the new arks card design? awesome~~~

Anyway it says something about doing a freedom team.... and that's all I can get :S

btw how the heck do you have 664 HP at lv26?

Let's see, my units are part of the Bro-type set (hidden, obviously), and I have all pieces of the set, making me qualify for the bonus HP from it (Bro-type units give 20 S-ATK, 30 S-DEF, and 30 HP if they are worn together). Then you have the fact that I have a Gunner sub which is the same level (I haven't unlocked Fighter yet, so I'm using my previously leveled Gunner sub).

My skill tree set (shown here (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03nfAfbdIkbdIkIAfbdIkbdIkbqlG6ebkbq ogDf4QIn00000ib00000ib00000ib2QIefc000jb00000ib000 00f)) using the Hunter/Gunner setup puts my default at 464 HP. With full Brodang B that's 30 more for the set bonus (in addition to Brodang B and Brideinn B giving 30 HP on their own). Brideinn has a Stamina 3 on it, whilst Brodang B has a Stamina 1 (giving 50 and 10 HP extra, respectively).

So let's do the math, shall we?

464 Base HP
60 Back/Arm cumulative HP bonus
30 Set HP Bonus
50 Arm Unit HP Bonus due to Stamina 3
10 Back Unit HP Bonus due to Stamina 1
--------
It equals 614. Hrm. You're right. OH WAIT. My Wired Lances have Stamina 2 on them, resulting in 40 more HP. But even then, that's only 654.

And finally, we have the 20% extra stats from my Subclass. 10 more HP tops it off at 664 with those Wired Lances - 624 if I use either my Sword or Spear.

[Syklo]

Let's see, my units are part of the Bro-type set (hidden, obviously), and I have all pieces of the set, making me qualify for the bonus HP from it (Bro-type units give 20 S-ATK, 30 S-DEF, and 30 HP if they are worn together). Then you have the fact that I have a Gunner sub which is the same level (I haven't unlocked Fighter yet, so I'm using my previously leveled Gunner sub).

My skill tree set (shown here (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03nfAfbdIkbdIkIAfbdIkbdIkbqlG6ebkbq ogDf4QIn00000ib00000ib00000ib2QIefc000jb00000ib000 00f)) using the Hunter/Gunner setup puts my default at 464 HP. With full Brodang B that's 30 more for the set bonus (in addition to Brodang B and Brideinn B giving 30 HP on their own). Brideinn has a Stamina 3 on it, whilst Brodang B has a Stamina 1 (giving 50 and 10 HP extra, respectively).

So let's do the math, shall we?

464 Base HP
60 Back/Arm cumulative HP bonus
30 Set HP Bonus
50 Arm Unit HP Bonus due to Stamina 3
10 Back Unit HP Bonus due to Stamina 1
--------
It equals 614. Hrm. You're right. OH WAIT. My Wired Lances have Stamina 2 on them, resulting in 40 more HP. But even then, that's only 654.

And finally, we have the 20% extra stats from my Subclass. 10 more HP tops it off at 664 with those Wired Lances - 624 if I use either my Sword or Spear.
Er, the base HP shown in skill simulator already accounts for subclass stats.
So you're adding that 20% of your subclass twice
Not to mention, saying that would mean your subclass only had 50 hp.
lolwut

[BIG OLAF]

I think another question that should be discussed is

"Why should we care if they are bothered by our presence?"

[Syklo]

I think another question that should be discussed is

"Why should we care if they are bothered by our presence?"
........uh oh.
-flameshield on-

Quite the attitude you expressed there....

[Xaeris]

Ultimately, we are guests on their server. While that doesn't give them the right to treat us like dirty gaijins, we should still be considerate of how our presence impacts them.

[Zyrusticae]

I am jealous of you folks with Japanese friends/who can play in Japanese parties without feeling horribly embarrassed.

My social anxiety is too strong for me to join even English-speaking parties half the time if I don't know anyone in there, so obviously I haven't joined a single JP party at all (though it doesn't help that my knowledge of spoken Japanese is completely useless without a corresponding knowledge of Kanji... lolfail). I mean, I should, but, y'know, the feeling of embarrassment is just too damn intense.

I hate social anxiety. So damn irrational, but it's always there and it's almost impossible to overcome...

[Syklo]

I am jealous of you folks with Japanese friends/who can play in Japanese parties without feeling horribly embarrassed.

My social anxiety is too strong for me to join even English-speaking parties half the time if I don't know anyone in there, so obviously I haven't joined a single JP party at all (though it doesn't help that my knowledge of spoken Japanese is completely useless without a corresponding knowledge of Kanji... lolfail). I mean, I should, but, y'know, the feeling of embarrassment is just too damn intense.

I hate social anxiety. So damn irrational, but it's always there and it's almost impossible to overcome...
-hi5-
In the same boat as you, yet a different ship (lol).

Not that it's a big deal having to solo most of the time; personally prefer to see my own autowords pop-up as forms of status indicators rather than join a jp party without any of that (or 3x as much)

[Bellion]

I had the same problem with joining a JP party. I made sure I knew the usual phrases that I saw in MPAs and my desire to get a Demonic Fork at the time was greater than what was holding me back. I read that they wanted 3 full parties in a good Gil map, and so I joined. I felt relieved after the MPA session and I'm glad they didn't ask me anything. >_>

[Zipzo]

I have no issue grouping with Japanese players since I speak/read/write Japanese and I've actually had a good conversation with a Japanese acquaintance on this subject...

Essentially, it's really no different than if you were to go visit the actual country (and not just Japan, any country).

If you go to another country, you're expected to be respectful of the customs and the way things work. Sure you don't have to swear by them all (assuming any of them crosses your preferences), but when you're there it's only logical that you should take the extra effort to be respectful because...it's not your native country so you can't act like you know everything, and everything you do at home is okay here.

In terms of grouping, it's only an issue is communication is blocked in a communication heavy situation. If they are trying to say something to you because you're messing up and you don't speak a lick of Japanese that will likely aggravate them (just like it would you).

These topics are always interesting to me because...you shouldn't even need to ask these questions to anyone. The Japanese are people just like you and me, so just ask yourself...would you be annoyed? If the answer is yes, then there is likely a good chunk of Japanese people who would also say yes. If the answer is no...same thing.

[Vintasticvin]

........uh oh.
-flameshield on-

Quite the attitude you expressed there....

Yeah as of late I noticed Olaf has been one of few thats been reeking of major negativity I mean you can just feel it in the words in the case of of the present subject its mainly hostility =/ then again I may just be out of my gorge as always.

But to stay on topic if I run into a JP native I usually use the following emotes "/MLA Bow" "la wave" and use a smiley cut-in or my roaring Lisa lol.

[Renvalt]

First off, kudos for being like me in that regard, Zyrus and Syklo.

Now then....


I have no issue grouping with Japanese players since I speak/read/write Japanese and I've actually had a good conversation with a Japanese acquaintance on this subject...

Essentially, it's really no different than if you were to go visit the actual country (and not just Japan, any country).

If you go to another country, you're expected to be respectful of the customs and the way things work. Sure you don't have to swear by them all (assuming any of them crosses your preferences), but when you're there it's only logical that you should take the extra effort to be respectful because...it's not your native country so you can't act like you know everything, and everything you do at home is okay here.

In terms of grouping, it's only an issue is communication is blocked in a communication heavy situation. If they are trying to say something to you because you're messing up and you don't speak a lick of Japanese that will likely aggravate them (just like it would you).

These topics are always interesting to me because...you shouldn't even need to ask these questions to anyone. The Japanese are people just like you and me, so just ask yourself...would you be annoyed? If the answer is yes, then there is likely a good chunk of Japanese people who would also say yes. If the answer is no...same thing.

I would expect that to be common sense, but this also brings up another issue, one that comes up on my end: when you don't know their language and they want to say something to you, not knowing what they're saying leads to the scary situation of you asking yourself "What should I say?".

When you have no idea whether what they were saying was an insult or a compliment, you lock up because you want to respect them, but at the same time you feel like you're in the middle of a life-or-death situation because the next thing you say could either make them smile or make them snarl.

It's why I feel terribly guilty whenever I come across a Japanese person - even more if they say something to me and I have no idea what they said (which almost always happens). I rely more on the sound of their words (spoken speech) and thus use romaji to write out my words - which is an immensely amateurish way of doing it (although to be fair, I do use Hiragana to make it seem more "authentic" if I'm even doing that right).

However, since I know how incorrect words at incorrect times often gets you shafted like mad, I freeze in silence whenever a Japanese person says something to me, and become perplexed as hell when they send me a friend request (because honestly, I have no idea what they see in me - and without being able to communicate with them, I'll never know).

[Emizel]

Yeah as of late I noticed Olaf has been one of few thats been reeking of major negativity I mean you can just feel it in the words in the case of of the present subject its mainly hostility =/ then again I may just be out of my gorge as always.

But to stay on topic if I run into a JP native I usually use the following emotes "/MLA Bow" "la wave" and use a smiley cut-in or my roaring Lisa lol.

x

put yourself in their shoes: on NA/EU servers, we usually don't tolerate non-English players spamming chat in other languages. the JP players on PSO2 are being pretty tolerant really

[Cyron Tanryoku]

I can't stand some of you either

[SPOILER-BOX]<3[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Renvalt]

that user (Olaf) is very obnoxious and immature. it's not surprising he has no respect for the JP users.

put yourself in their shoes: on NA/EU servers, we usually don't tolerate non-English players spamming chat in other languages. the JP players on PSO2 are being pretty tolerant really

I agree. I'm surprised we aren't being banned execution style.

Then again, this is usually why I avoid a lot of American MMOs altogether - they sell their souls for power, and usually respect/kindness is packed in with what they're giving away.

And of course, I can't go 50 steps without Conspire's arrogance filling my head (he's known for it in Elsword NA, I doubt it's an isolated occurance since he carried it over here too).

But yeah, I think those that want to play with the Japanese should get together for some Japanese language study groups or something - it would allow the Japanese to see us in a better light and realize not all of us foreigners are MoonStone-Broomop-based Hacker gits.

[Zyrusticae]

Heh, not surprised I'm not alone out there. Everybody feels social anxiety on some level, just to different degrees...


I have no issue grouping with Japanese players since I speak/read/write Japanese and I've actually had a good conversation with a Japanese acquaintance on this subject...

[snip]

This post speaks truth.

Out of curiosity, how much effort did it take to learn the language? Particularly the written part, which is what trips me up most of the time (and this being an online video game with no voice chat, obviously it's the most important part).

[blace]

For the record, I don't join any parties, I just leave my parties open for anyone to join.

I'll use an example from yesterday, I started an MPA on the hard block in desert, as the other MPA was locked. For the most part, I was just hunting items for a CO, wasn't expecting anyone to join my party or take the MPA seriously as it was a bad location full of dead ends. What I wasn't expecting was to have a Japanese player join my party and have people follow me around the map. Lacking in Japanese, I naturally locked up and wasn't sure what to do. They didn't seem to mind that I was being silent, but it did feel tense. Sometime during the MPA, an english speaking party came and pretty much demanded that one of the parties to take off their bots so their friend can join. About 5 minutes later, the Japanese players left, including the one guy in my party. Leaving me to wander the desert alone again.

My experience with Japanese players is that they don't mind us, but any rude remarks and they leave. The same english speaking players were hopping from one MPA to another, since they killed off a few others with a demanding tone and chatting in english openly.

I don't harbor any negative feelings towards both groups, but the Japanese players I have played don't tolerate rude behavior, although willing to let someone like myself around.

[Vintasticvin]

that user (Olaf) is very obnoxious and immature. it's not surprising he has no respect for the JP users.

put yourself in their shoes: on NA/EU servers, we usually don't tolerate non-English players spamming chat in other languages. the JP players on PSO2 are being pretty tolerant really

When I play on a server of my native region and I see players talking in a foreign I just look baffled wondering what they could be conversing about and if they approach me I do my best to be as humble and respectful as I possibly can.

Yes I too feel that some non JP players have no respect or disregard to the nation that is being kind enough to let us slide and play on their servers and to make matters worse I used to look up to some of these players til I discovered they are not worth admiring.

And yes I will admit to always slip up and speak in public chat when I am suppose to be speaking to others in private chat channel X_X

[Keyblade59]

I feel like were talking about a nature documentary and how the lions see us but won't eat us right away. It's annoying a majority of us is stereotyped as obnoxious and rude hackers but there is always going to be a sour apple who needs to be squished into sour apple sauce and fed to sour old ladies because they are mean.

I wonder if the Japanese laughing at this thread lol.

[Vintasticvin]

I feel like were talking about a nature documentary and how the lions see us but won't eat us right away. It's annoying a majority of us is stereotyped as obnoxious and rude hackers but there is always going to be a sour apple who needs to be squished into sour apple sauce and fed to sour old ladies because they are mean.

I wonder if the Japanese laughing at this thread lol.

I would not be surprised and I'm starting to giggle a bit at it myself.

[Jungo Torii]

It really just depends on the player.

Honestly, we shouldn't be so worried about this subject. It's just smart to be respectful, of course, but I don't think we should worry ourselves too much with what JP players think.

...generalizations are always fun, eh guys?...

[Vintasticvin]

It really just depends on the player.

Honestly, we shouldn't be so worried about this subject. It's just smart to be respectful


^--THIS!

[Hosaka]

It really just depends on the player.

Honestly, we shouldn't be so worried about this subject. It's just smart to be respectful, of course, but I don't think we should worry ourselves too much with what JP players think.

...generalizations are always fun, eh guys?...

>being rational
>PSOW
Jungo, you're doing it wrong.

[Reiketsu]

I know I should play with Japanese players more often, because what's the point in learning the language if I don't even try to use it?
But I'm just too shy and scared to embarrass myself, lol
I'm not that fluent yet and always need a while to reply (not only in Japanese, though...), because I always end up thinking 'wait, is that the correct grammatical form?' or 'is that the right word? the right kanji?' and bleh...

However, I didn't have any bad experiences with Japanese players so far.
In most cases, I just tell them in Japanese that I'm German and am still studying the language and apologize that it might take a while to reply and stuff, but so far... the response was basically always the same.
They're surprised at first and tell me stuff like how admirable it is that I'm trying to learn their language and that my Japanese isn't actually that bad, or even offer to help me if I have questions. Or they start asking me questions... about Germany, lol
I guess that should give me more confidence, but... well...
I'm just not good at talking with people in general, no matter what language... only if I know them really well and even then I'm not the most talkative person out there... u_u"

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I actually have a shortcut that says "sorry, my japanese isn't very good", though obviously it's written in hiragana. The usual response is: Are you chinese? to which I reply "I'm American, I hope that's ok." Most of them welcome me openly and try to ask me questions or give instructions in english. I give them simple answers in english or keep up the japanese depending on how fluent they seem, and thank them for being patient with me. I usually get one or two friend requests once everyone parts ways.

To be fair, and not to brag, but when I play, I rarely drag my feet and am usually doing my best to speed things up, keep PSEs going and since I typically play Gu/Ra these days, I use WB on bosses targeting whatever the rest of the team is targeting rather than doing my own thing. In the case of multiple bosses, I kill one off myself very quickly to keep pressure off the group. I also don't die very often and have many times been the one to save the group from a party wipe if things get hairy. I think people who integrate with the group and demonstrate value will tend to find themselves more openly welcomed than the people who join groups and do what they like regardless of how it impacts the flow of the run.

[Skyly HUmar]

Yes, of course it bothers them. x:

It may not bother some, but for the most part they want to us to stay out of their way.
If you can not understand them in in some parties, they have a tendency to ask about it and then kick you or something along those lines.
Explains why there's Japanese only parties, and recently I've seen Japanese players direct non-japanese players to go to B20.

I miss the times from JP PSU where it was okay to join a Japanese party without being asked if you're Japanese from the start.

Stay out of THEIR way? lol i know im not the one who fails an avoid 3 seconds into it. and untill recently i thought visbolt was japanese proof X.x.

Anywhoo, on topic: Some dont, i have 5 jp friends that are on pretty often, and i join them every now and then for falz.

Ive been in parteis where japanese leave as soon as I say hello, ive been kicked as soon as I say hello, theyve made fun of me thinking i cant read "baka gaijin".

Some dont give a shit, some are pricks about it, thats all there is to it. I like playng with them when i can though, idk why but i love the fact that i can play with someone so far away in real time.

[Rien]

I know enough kanji (being Chinese and often looking up japanese kanji dictionaries) to walk around and not get my head shot off.

In the very least, if you have a "マルチお邪魔します" and a "よろしくです" symbol art/shortcut you should not get fried for being in an MPA.

[ReaperTheAbsol]

I remember my first time that I was like, "Oh shit. A random Japanese joined my party and all my AW's are in English. How embarassing." Then I found out that she was from Malaysia and spoke English quite well. She invited me into her team and I've been a manager ever since, haha.

I know that there are some Japanese that are intrigued by gaijin. I met a girl on B20 that told me she liked playing with foreigners in order to practice her English, and I thought that was pretty admirable. Another girl I met suggested that I learn Japanese so I can play with Japanese effectively and flirt with her in her native tongue, LMAO. She was quite amusing to talk with, 'specially since she was quite the fujoshi.

However, I have met one specific English speaking player that takes this game much, much too seriously. I was playing on B40 with a Ruins MPA and this player immediately bad mouths the Japanese for doing codes "incorrectly" and stuff like that. Some of the Japanese players ignored it, and a few talked a bit about the specific player before the MPA died. I felt embarassed by that player's disrespect, and it was disgusting to see that kind of elitist attitude on a server the player isn't a native of.

Talk about making yourself feel right at home, 'eh?

[gigawuts]

Honestly, while I've had a couple bad experiences with a couple specific JP players seeming to dislike foreigners in general, my average experience is absolutely great. Most have no more of an issue with a foreigner than a local player, and so long as you do your given role with any level of decency they're a-ok with you. That seems to be how they treat eachother as well.

As long as you play well, what's the problem?

[untrustful]

Honestly, while I've had a couple bad experiences with a couple specific JP players seeming to dislike foreigners in general, my average experience is absolutely great. Most have no more of an issue with a foreigner than a local player, and so long as you do your given role with any level of decency they're a-ok with you. That seems to be how they treat eachother as well.

As long as you play well, what's the problem?

HERE HERE!

Damned intolerant players trying to sully the reputations of the east and the west! HOW DARE THEY I SAY! REVOLUTION!

[Du1337]

If we dont act like idiots like in de latest EQ... Destroy instead of capture... Then I dont think they have problems with us. I think the ammount of active players on this server will determine how many effort Sega will put in this and that will gave good results for them too. Thats why the NA server is prolly gonna suck...


Posted from Pso-world.com App for Android

[Renvalt]

If we dont act like idiots like in de latest EQ... Destroy instead of capture... Then I dont think they have problems with us. I think the ammount of active players on this server will determine how many effort Sega will put in this and that will gave good results for them too. Thats why the NA server is prolly gonna suck...


Ya know, I just go about the field using Star and Moon Atomizers without being asked whenever I see an empty bar of health. I seriously dislike seeing empty bars of health. And I do try to make it a point to say "otsukare" whenever I finish a code with anyone (despite not knowing that they have a shorter version and I get caught up with adding "sama" at the end of that particular word - ahh, the pain of growing up your whole life knowing only English).


I remember my first time that I was like, "Oh shit. A random Japanese joined my party and all my AW's are in English. How embarassing." Then I found out that she was from Malaysia and spoke English quite well. She invited me into her team and I've been a manager ever since, haha.

I know that there are some Japanese that are intrigued by gaijin. I met a girl on B20 that told me she liked playing with foreigners in order to practice her English, and I thought that was pretty admirable. Another girl I met suggested that I learn Japanese so I can play with Japanese effectively and flirt with her in her native tongue, LMAO. She was quite amusing to talk with, 'specially since she was quite the fujoshi.

However, I have met one specific English speaking player that takes this game much, much too seriously. I was playing on B40 with a Ruins MPA and this player immediately bad mouths the Japanese for doing codes "incorrectly" and stuff like that. Some of the Japanese players ignored it, and a few talked a bit about the specific player before the MPA died. I felt embarassed by that player's disrespect, and it was disgusting to see that kind of elitist attitude on a server the player isn't a native of.

Talk about making yourself feel right at home, 'eh?

Ya know how envious of you I feel? I'll be honest, I wish the Japanese actually gave that much of a shit that some of them would actually be kind with me. However, like the Americans, they seem to feel I should get lost (and they do this by ignoring me).

I feel like it's somehow due to the language barrier, so I feel I SERIOUSLY want to topple down that wall so I'm able to see what's on the other side of it.

[cruxader]

Being a Malaysian myself, i must say not all of us are good at English, but what i can tell you is majority of gamer speaks rather well in English regardless of where they're from... I practically learnt English and grammar through whole life of gaming... I learnt nothing of English in High-school :P

To avoid being off-topic, I shall add that my experience with Japanese players have been fine so far... A simple 'よろしく' whenever I enter a Japanese party as a polite greeting.

[Anatha]

I've more issue with the english speaking community because of a few select members of it who can't seem to keep their negative attitudes to themselves/their therapists.

Nothing ruins a fun game like a nagging gnat in your ear doing nothing but spewing nonstop negativity.

Sad thing is they'll never realize that their behavior is a problem, such is the hubris that comes with self-righteousness.


If only the biggest problem were "cheaters", because that minority comprises less than 1% of the people I've encountered.

[TaigaUC]

Like with everything else, some JP people don't mind, some do mind, and others find us interesting. That is all. Just hope you don't meet the annoying ones and that other international players aren't trying to make all the Japanese hate us (happens often).

[Zyrusticae]

I've more issue with the english speaking community because of a few select members of it who can't seem to keep their negative attitudes to themselves/their therapists.

Nothing ruins a fun game like a nagging gnat in your ear doing nothing but spewing nonstop negativity.

Sad thing is they'll never realize that their behavior is a problem, such is the hubris that comes with self-righteousness.

OMG YES.

YOU SPEAK MY MIND EXACTLY.

It's fine to keep it to the forums, but bringing it in-game, too? Seriously? Talk about a douchey thing to do...

[Shirai]

It's fine to keep it to the forums, but bringing it in-game, too? Seriously? Talk about a douchey thing to do...

Agreed.

A good amount of people do this, sadly.

[Kion]

Seems like a pretty hard generalization to make because it's really case-by-case. There's definitely a small group of out-spoken japanese players who insist that people living outsite of Japan is against the ToS and that foreign players should shut up and wait for an english release. But most of the Japanese players seem a lot more tolerant and know the game hasn't even been announced outside of Japan, and that if foreign players can read, interact in Japanese to some degree then it's not really that much of a problem. I'm also really impressed with the number of Japanese players who go out of their way to play on block 20, or invite foreign players to their team.

From personal experience I can't say too much, because I don't actually play the game that often. Most of the time I join a party say "よろしく”, "お疲れ”, or ”PTありがとう” and that's the extent of the communication. Advance parties are kind of hard though, one party got mad at (me?) or another member about breaking the boss drop crystal after finishing the level. I don't think it was me but then again it was 2am and I was barely conscious. The other two members got really angry and said, "were you even listening!!!??". When I asked to what, they replied, "we said to let the leader break those." And I checked the logs and they NEVER said that! The other thing I find curious is on advance quests you've often see "全埋める" written in the description. I really have no idea what it means, which is pretty embarrassing, cause when they ask me about my preferences about advance missions, I just reply that I'm okay with anything.

[Anatha]

Can only think of a couple of things, that they want a full party... which while possibly applicable seems too obvious to be the case, or that they plan to kill every single thing, which also seems obvious but perhaps not as much to those new to AQs.

[Reiketsu]

From personal experience I can't say too much, because I don't actually play the game that often. Most of the time I join a party say "よろしく”, "お疲れ”, or ”PTありがとう” and that's the extent of the communication.

Yeah, I think it's enough to just greet when you enter a Japanese party or MPA and thank them before leaving.
I haven't joined that many Japanese parties, yet. Only during emergencies I sometimes tend to do this when I don't find anyone else to play with (not gonna do Hunar solo, lol).
If you say よろしくお願いします! when joinig and お疲れ様でした!/ＰＴありがとうございます!/またね! when leaving, everything should be fine.
There often isn't much talking among Japanese players, either, from what I've seen. At least during missions.


The other thing I find curious is on advance quests you've often see "全埋める" written in the description. I really have no idea what it means, which is pretty embarrassing, cause when they ask me about my preferences about advance missions, I just reply that I'm okay with anything.

They want you to bury everything, lol
Well, it literally means that, so I guess they just want to kill every single enemy?

[Rien]

They want you to bury everything, lol
Well, it literally means that, so I guess they just want to kill every single enemy?

I asked, and yes they want you to focus on taking out absolutely everything. Or, to put in their words: "The only things alive should be us four"

[holmwood]

I was reading this thred on logsoku.
http://www.logsoku.com/r/ogame3/1342536634/


There is this user that insists they stop buying from foreign player's myshop, and refuse to party with them.

Not everyone shares the user's hatred for foreigners however. There are some wonderful people who defended the foreign players by saying the TS simply was frustrated by the inability to communicate with foreignets.


It all comes down to lack of communication. Alot of users requested that foreign players learn to speak japanese.

A user posted that their pet peeve is when foreigners burst into their party and go straight to the boss when they are in the middle of an MPA run. They would have to kick the player out or be kicked themselves when the foreign user kills the boss and teleports them all to campship. You can see why even basic communication is important in this case.

[BIG OLAF]

A user posted that their pet peeve is when foreigners burst into their party and go straight to the boss when they are in the middle of an MPA run.

I'm pretty sure that would piss anyone off, though.

[GrandYith]

I guess it depends D: I must say, brazilians are a plague in MMOs (everytime I think I found a new MMO free of stupid kiddos, there they are O.O) and many of them don't care if the game is international. I guess many people don't like when a brazilian starts speaking portuguese all the way out in international servers, like there were no other people, so maybe some japaneses feel the same way. I mean, taking us brazilians as an exemple, I heard many saying in international servers things like "I won't speak english and I won't learn. These brazilians that speak english in MMOs are stupid. People from other country should understand me, or fuck them" and a couple of other compliments like this -_- A guy in the private server that-should-not-be-named of PSO:BB even offered rare items in portuguese, not even knowing if there were any brazilians or portugueses on my party. I tried to tell him that the guys with me weren't brazilian and that they didn't understand portuguese, and he simply said "Their loss, then" and went out. So I bet many western players think the same way as many brazilian folks, then many japaneses feel as many western people. But of course, I guess many of them don't really care.

Anyways, I'll sure be changing to the NA servers when they come out, 1st cos there are too many people I don't like on the JP (people that made fun of me just cos I'm waiting for NA servers e_e), and 2nd bc for what I've been reading, most JP players won't change to NA servers, so they'll have less people and it'll be better for me with my 1MB connection xDD

btw, that's a good point to talk about. Thx for the thread ^^

[holmwood]

I guess it depends D: I must say, brazilians are a plague in MMOs (everytime I think I found a new MMO free of stupid kiddos, there they are O.O) and many of them don't care if the game is international. I guess many people don't like when a brazilian starts speaking portuguese all the way out in international servers, like there were no other people, so maybe some japaneses feel the same way. I mean, taking us brazilians as an exemple, I heard many saying in international servers things like "I won't speak english and I won't learn. These brazilians that speak english in MMOs are stupid. People from other country should understand me, or fuck them" and a couple of other compliments like this -_- A guy in the private server that-should-not-be-named of PSO:BB even offered rare items in portuguese, not even knowing if there were any brazilians or portugueses on my party. I tried to tell him that the guys with me weren't brazilian and that they didn't understand portuguese, and he simply said "Their loss, then" and went out. So I bet many western players think the same way as many brazilian folks, then many japaneses feel as many western people. But of course, I guess many of them don't really care.

Anyways, I'll sure be changing to the NA servers when they come out, 1st cos there are too many people I don't like on the JP (people that made fun of me just cos I'm waiting for NA servers e_e), and 2nd bc for what I've been reading, most JP players won't change to NA servers, so they'll have less people and it'll be better for me with my 1MB connection xDD

btw, that's a good point to talk about. Thx for the thread ^^
Be equipped to deal with Brazillians over there as well.

I haven't found many brazilians in this game, but the few Ive been acquainted with were nice enough to stay on block 20 instead of going to other blocks because they knew they can't speak japanese. And they were very polite.


The NA community's views towards brazilian players is rooted to the same issues as the JP community's frustration towards foreign players.... lack of communication.

[ArcaneTechs]

A user posted that their pet peeve is when foreigners burst into their party and go straight to the boss when they are in the middle of an MPA run.

Ironically, I had a US and JP person join my party yesterday during my FC MPA and both rushed to the boss. They both asked if I was gonna kill the boss (mind you the MPA for my room was already 40 minutes, what does that tell you?) so I told them no I'm field grinding. US person left the party a minute after I said that, JP guy said thank you for the party and left.

[Lostbob117]

Ironically, I had a US and JP person join my party yesterday during my FC MPA and both rushed to the boss. They both asked if I was gonna kill the boss (mind you the MPA for my room was already 40 minutes, what does that tell you?) so I told them no I'm field grinding. US person left the party a minute after I said that, JP guy said thank you for the party and left.

That tells you that jp people are polite.

[Emizel]

That tells you that jp people are polite.

there are rude and polite Japanese people, just like everybody else

[supersonix9]

Of course it bothers them.

[NoiseHERO]

I'd be bothered having a bunch of PSOW psychos in my presence too.

[Pirrip]

I'll be moving to Japan in two weeks. But I started playing in the U.S. And from my experience, most PSO-World users are respectful and interested in playing and teamwork, but I've been approached by some gaikokujin in-game that have been very rude and use prejudicial language and such. It's kind of terrible that there are westerners coming into a Japanese language game conducting themselves so badly in the lobbies--and feeling entitled to do so. As much as I'd like to play more games with my western friends, I won't miss all of the western trolls. I can understand why so many game developers want to have separate servers.

[Enforcer MKV]

I think it bothers them because 80-90% of us don't know a lick of Japanese. Communication is kind of important when you don't want someone to end a mission prematurely. I'd be pretty frustrated if I kept telling someone not to kill the boss because we were MPA'ing, only to be completely ignored because they didn't know the language. It's also pretty bad when foreigners come in and act disrespectful to the main base. We're guests; we need to act like it.

That's why I mostly stick to playing with friends. Don't want to get in anyone else's way.

[Para]

So it seems like people keep posting different Japanese phrases in this thread but don't explain what they mean.

One phrase that always confuses me is よろしく. Translated from my understanding: it means thank you but it seems like everyone constantly uses it as a greeting. Could someone elaborate on that?

It's one thing to just say it, its another to actually know what you are saying. Words are hollow without the intent.

edit: also this link that was posted earlier http://www.logsoku.com/r/ogame3/1342536634/
It's freaking old. Back when the hacking was super rampant.

[Naoshi]

Have a couple jp's friends, I get along with them.

Sometimes I party with randoms jps, they don't bother at all knowing my japanese is bad.

I respect them, they respect so yeah msot of jp bothers because the problem is NA ppl^^

[Bellion]

One phrase that always confuses me is よろしく. Translated from my understanding: it means thank you but it seems like everyone constantly uses it as a greeting. Could someone elaborate on that？

Basically, it means please treat me well. よろしくお願いします is more polite.

[redroses]

So it seems like people keep posting different Japanese phrases in this thread but don't explain what they mean.

One phrase that always confuses me is よろしく. Translated from my understanding: it means thank you but it seems like everyone constantly uses it as a greeting. Could someone elaborate on that?

It's one thing to just say it, its another to actually know what you are saying. Words are hollow without the intent.

If I am not mistaken, よろしく actually comes from a longer phrase どうぞよろしく. There isn't a direct translation possible, as with many japanese phrases, but it means something like "nice to meet you/treat me kindly."

[NoiseHERO]

Stop it, you're all off...

This is all you need to know about Japanese Culture and Language.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/cd14131079378be7cd05093c9125a4de/tumblr_miq226VIGy1s1fs5po1_500.jpg

[Emizel]

Basically, it means please treat me well. よろしくお願いします is more polite.

but too polite for online games. よろしくです　is fine

[Emizel]

So it seems like people keep posting different Japanese phrases in this thread but don't explain what they mean.

One phrase that always confuses me is よろしく. Translated from my understanding: it means thank you but it seems like everyone constantly uses it as a greeting. Could someone elaborate on that?

It's one thing to just say it, its another to actually know what you are saying. Words are hollow without the intent.

edit: also this link that was posted earlier http://www.logsoku.com/r/ogame3/1342536634/
It's freaking old. Back when the hacking was super rampant.

it still is... lol

even some of the block 20 users posting in this thread are hackers

[SuKKrl]

One thing that helps is to create a small doc with necessary phrases in case you have all your shortcuts taken by another stuff. "よろしくお願いします" and "おつかれさまでした" are the minimum they expect of someone joining their party so its nice to use them when you can.

I usually write something like "ちょっと日本語話します。" in pt description to avoid getting people who doesn't want to come in contact with foreigners as my japanese language skills are pretty bad.

[blace]

it still is... lol

even some of the block 20 users posting in this thread are hackers

The only hacking I've seen was months ago and with one person registering here who periodically sits outside the lobby window.

Either I'm ignorant to the rampant hacking or I need to start hanging around block 20 more, you tell me what I haven't seen already.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Me personally don't care of course i had few time i got kicked out of a party the second I said something....was it because it was in english? *shrugs*

Either way ive met some cool japanese players who didn't knew alot of english but it was enough to understand what they wanted to do :)

[Bellion]

but too polite for online games. よろしくです　is fine

Too polite for online games? ...What?

[NoiseHERO]

Too polite for online games? ...What?

What's so complicated about that.

If anything TOO MANY things are taken seriously in games these days...

[holmwood]

Me personally don't care of course i had few time i got kicked out of a party the second I said something....was it because it was in english? *shrugs*

That's exactly why they kicked you out. You have to understand that only a small population of japanese are able to use english on a conversational level. If you start jabbering to them in english out of the blue, you're obviously going to upset them. :etongue:

At least have the decency to say すみません。日本語があまりわかりません。 or something along those lines where you tell them you do not know alot of japanese.

And you know, individual actions do reflect upon the entire community. So please try to care. . .

[Bellion]

What's so complicated about that.

If anything TOO MANY things are taken seriously in games these days...

I personally don't think you can be too polite. I be polite to people I don't know and then act a bit more casual once I get to know them better. Some people just take things more seriously than others and that's just how it is.

[gigawuts]

I personally don't think you can be too polite. I be polite to people I don't know and then act a bit more casual once I get to know them better. Some people just take things more seriously than others and that's just how it is.

If it's too polite for a japanese person it's too fucking polite, full stop.

[BIG OLAF]

If it's too polite for a japanese person it's too fucking polite, full stop.

Would Canadians be above or below the Japanese on the 'Polite-O-Meter'?

[gigawuts]

I'd say below.

Japanese people are crazy polite. If a japanese person is telling you to tone it down it'd be like Mr Rogers saying "that's not violent enough, tone it up a bit."

[Emizel]

I personally don't think you can be too polite. I be polite to people I don't know and then act a bit more casual once I get to know them better. Some people just take things more seriously than others and that's just how it is.

I guess I meant "too formal"

[Anatha]

it still is... lol

even some of the block 20 users posting in this thread are hackers

In all my time playing this game, nearly exclusively on 20, and out of all the players I have encountered, only two people have used illegitimate means.

That's less than 1%.

So no, it isn't rampant, and if I'm not mistaken you're actually one of the negative people who won't shut up in game about everything you perceive to be wrong.

My posts are clue-ins for you to keep your negative, hyperbolic, conspiracy theorist attitude out of a game I and likely everyone else play for fun.

And as far as I have seen, none of the posters in this thread use illegitimate means.

[Emizel]

if you want to pretend ignorance and minimize the situation be my guest. bottom line is if you walk into block20's lobby at any given hour you will find at least half a dozen admitted hackers chatting. and they will admit openly that they have downloaded speed hacking programs.

they use items gained by illegitimate means, and flood the economy with items gained by illegitimate means.

I brought it up because it's definitely relevant as to why some japanese players wouldn't be happy with us.

and yes some of the people in this thread have flat out admitted that they use hacks, to my face. including on page 1 of this thread

[Cyron Tanryoku]

I'll have what he's smoking

[Anatha]

I'd have to pass on that Cy, it seems to make you crazy

[Emizel]

im not that crazy. if you do a simple google search on pso 2 hacking you will find multiple free downloads for hacking programs.

and you will notice b20 users discussing hacking on those websites.

but like I said, if you want to just pretend it doesn't exist. go ahead.

again I'm only bringing it up because I think it's definitely a part of why some JP users don't like us(english community)

[Xaeris]

I'll have what he's smoking

Make sure it's a good batch. You don't want to have a crazy bad trip.

[blace]

It's only due to you being so fixated on it. I've been around since late August and haven't seen as much of this rampant hacking.

[Ezodagrom]

if you want to pretend ignorance and minimize the situation be my guest. bottom line is if you walk into block20's lobby at any given hour you will find at least half a dozen admitted hackers chatting. and they will admit openly that they have downloaded speed hacking programs.

they use items gained by illegitimate means, and flood the economy with items gained by illegitimate means.

I brought it up because it's definitely relevant as to why some japanese players wouldn't be happy with us.

and yes some of the people in this thread have flat out admitted that they use hacks, to my face. including on page 1 of this thread
I saw part of a conversion, you were accusing someone of being a cheater, and that person replied to you with obvious sarcasm, even said an obvious fake website. :|

Yeah, there are english speaking cheaters, but they are a really small minority, I could count with my fingers the number of cheaters I've seen so far.

[Emizel]

i havent accused anyone. I saw Moon Stone members cheating,so I decided to ask Lily(who is also in Moon Stone) if he uses hacks. He replied yes. and then became extremely flustered/defensive

regardless if you guild and party with other cheaters, you're just as bad IMO :-?

[BIG OLAF]

Man, that 'common' remark must have really gotten under your skin, since now you're even accusing people of being hackers.

[Emizel]

I didn't accuse anyone.

[Ezodagrom]

i havent accused anyone. I saw Moon Stone members cheating,so I decided to ask Lily(who is also in Moon Stone) if he uses hacks. He replied yes. and then became extremely flustered/defensive

regardless if you guild and party with other cheaters, you're just as bad IMO :-?
That "yes" was really obvious sarcasm though.

エミーゼル lily are you a hacker?
Lily Yes
Lily I only have 1 Tool that I use
Lily It's called AIMING

[gigawuts]

Haaaaaaaaaaa, this thread.

[Emizel]

I asked if he hacks, he said yes. he parties with hackers regardless.that much is confirmed as fact. so if I ask if he's a hacker and he says yes I believe him.

I really have no sympathy for people who get their items & guild with cheaters so I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt

[Z-0]

I hope you aren't talking about me because that's not me. :rolleyes:

[Emizel]

That "yes" was really obvious sarcasm though.

I want to add that if we are defending members of cheating guilds in any capacity... thats enough proof of the dire state of the game.


I hope you aren't talking about me because that's not me. :rolleyes:

my mistake then(if I'm referring to a different Lily), i'm referring to a B20 moon stone player.(an english hacker guild)

[NoiseHERO]

In an attempt to make emizel look stupid, this thread is now about hackers.

Who ever makes him stop posting will be the smartest PSOW PSO2 section poster for a day: GO!

[Anatha]

He should have stopped posting after he was destroyed by the quote in regards to his conversation with Lily.

If you are so damn thick you can't recognize such obvious sarcasm, you need to remove yourself from all forms of interaction with other human beings.

It's just not fair to other people to have to pander to someone as though they are a child who knows nothing.

[gigawuts]

In an attempt to make emizel look stupid, this thread is now about hackers.

Who ever makes him stop posting will be the smartest PSOW PSO2 section poster for a day: GO!

No Emizel.

Don't listen to him.

Never stop posting.

Ever.

No matter what you do do not stop posting.

[Emizel]

I don't think I look stupid. legit play in games is really important to me. I mostly play fighting games competitively. I just have no tolerance for those who use hacking programs.

I know that PSO community is kind of rotten to the core when it comes to cheating...with the same hackers bombarding every single new phantasy star release.

that doesn't mean I have to accept it, or treat cheating players with any kind of respect.

in regards to the comment Lily made, yes I recognize he probably replied "Yes" sarcastically. do I care? not really, he's in a hacker guild anyway.

[Shirai]

Once Emizel starts going, he'll never stop.

Your best bet is to ignore him and think of him as a little kid having a tantrum.

[Ezodagrom]

I don't think I look stupid. legit play in games is really important to me. I mostly play fighting games competitively. I just have no tolerance for those who use hacking programs.

I know that PSO community is kind of rotten to the core when it comes to cheating...with the same hackers bombarding every single new phantasy star release.

that doesn't mean I have to accept it, or treat cheating players with any kind of respect.

in regards to the comment Lily made, yes I recognize he probably replied "Yes" sarcastically. do I care? not really, he's in a hacker guild anyway.
I hate cheating too, but just because a certain team has one or two members that cheat, that doesn't mean that everyone in that team cheats or even plays with the cheaters. What I mean is, don't judge the whole team, judge individuals separately, independently of the team.

[RadiantLegend]

I don't know a lick of japanese but a Jp player joined one of my mizer runs and (he/she) stated can't speak english. We did a couple runs and exchanged partner cards. There will be good and bad japanese players. I treat anyone the same way I'd like to be treated.

[Renvalt]

Once Emizel starts going, he'll never stop.

Your best bet is to ignore him and think of him as a little kid having a tantrum.

Wouldn't I be included in that statement? Sometimes I say shit that makes me look like a 5-year old brat. You can look in my post history for proof, if you care that much to go and look.

But yeah, Emizel? Seriously. Grow a pair and realize people aren't always serious. Believe me, you'll be able to tell when someone's speaking with 100% honesty - it may be hard at first, but eventually you separate the bullshit from the truth.

[Emizel]

I hate cheating too, but just because a certain team has one or two members that cheat, that doesn't mean that everyone in that team cheats or even plays with the cheaters. What I mean is, don't judge the whole team, judge individuals separately, independently of the team.

We just have different opinions then... I think if you're a legit player, you shouldn't team up with cheaters. If you team up with cheaters, you shouldn't be surprised if you get labelled a cheater as well.

I know that Lily was not being serious when he said he was a hacker. I chose to hold him accountable for his statement (despite sarcasm) because he does associate himself with those types of people.

[Renvalt]

We just have different opinions then... I think if you're a legit player, you shouldn't team up with cheaters. If you team up with cheaters, you shouldn't be surprised if you get labelled a cheater as well.

I know that Lily was not being serious when he said he was a hacker. I chose to hold him accountable for his statement (despite sarcasm) because he does associate himself with those types of people.

Well that's funny - I was a member of MoonStone not too long ago. I "associated" myself with "those types". Should you now bring out the Holy Hand Axe because I associated myself (however tightly or loosely) with those guys?

If so, I think you REALLY need to screw your head off and check whether you still have a brain inside of it.

[Para]

Before we let this get out of hand...


but too polite for online games. よろしくです　is fine

I can understand what you mean by too formal as it is a culture of have fun and enjoy.



If you say よろしくお願いします! when joinig and お疲れ様でした!/ＰＴありがとうございます!/またね! ...

I assume the first phrase is the formal and polite greeting but what about the other phrases?

[Hosaka]

I assume the first phrase is the formal and polite greeting but what about the other phrases?

Those are basically "Good work/Thanks for the party/See you later", in that order.

Edit: On the subject of よろしく：

よろしくお願いします is definitely not too polite or too formal for PSO2. JP players use it with about the same frequency as more informal variations.

[Anatha]

We just have different opinions then... I think if you're a legit player, you shouldn't team up with cheaters. If you team up with cheaters, you shouldn't be surprised if you get labelled a cheater as well.

I know that Lily was not being serious when he said he was a hacker. I chose to hold him accountable for his statement (despite sarcasm) because he does associate himself with those types of people.

Then you're a cheater as well. Your logic is self sabotaging, I suggest you stop while you're completely defamed and humiliated.

If cheating is as "rampant" as you claim, and I know you've done EQs, then the chances of you being in an MPA with a "cheater" are high enough to be 100%.

That would make you a cheater as well by your own logic.

Clearly seppuku is the only answer.

[Resanoca]

Emizel is starting his stupid BS again? lol Last time he started this up, he called me hacker since I told him to just avoid them. ;;

@Rock I know who could shut him up. THE MODS. :3

[Maronji]

Edit: On the subject of よろしく：

よろしくお願いします is definitely not too polite or too formal for PSO2. JP players use it with about the same frequency as more informal variations.
I'm inclined to agree with this statement.

When I played Dynasty Warriors Online JP a while back (and I mean a while back), there was basically an even spread of used variations of よろしく. I personally opted to use よろしくお願いします and I got by just fine (lag aside)

[Cypher_9]

It really depends - I for one have met a few JPN players who were cool with us; even spoke to me in English the best way they could - admitting they used translator: with the acception of one JPN player whom of which spoke very good english. And I befriended em all :D

Other than that, I too do try to communicate with them through their language and even tell them when they start to use complex sentences "I don't speak japanese very well" and they use the simple english terms in aid in understanding. Like someone said, communication is important and that is the only downside with players; I am already sure a certain number of JPN players enjoy the fact others want to play the same thing they do while you have your other half due to that fact of the barrier.

For them to even say "Foreigners should learn japanese" if it is true, only means that they WANT to talk to us... It shouldn't be a determent, more so of an encouragement because, the only thing a player wants in a game is to have fun with others aside from what is on the game. Hell countries are told to learn English as their curriculum in school, yet in our good ol' school system we only learn Spanish... coming into what grade? And we learn other languages in college... that is freaking backwards... there MAYBE elementary/middle schools that MAY promote (which i soley doubt - mainly if it was a private school) the learning of other languages and the best time (not the only time) to learn is as a child but of course... crud world will always be crud... ;v

Anyway...

The Sakai dream will be realized, even if it is in small increments. TO UNITE THE WORLD AS ONE!!!

[fires2dust]

I usually go solo or with team mates.. but when I do go with JP parties, they're always nice and polite. I can read a little, even if my reading speed is slow. I think they sorta appreciate it when you also try to bridge the language barrier by trying to speak to them in their language. I've had some Jp players also say things like, GJ and hi, nice to meet you in English.

But it's not like all JP players are like that also. Some might not want the awkwardness of not fully understanding another person hence, they keep it JP only or they have other reasons, idk. It's a mixed bag. They're prolly just as apprehensive as we are when teaming with people who don't speak the same language.

It's not as though every JP person is sending you condescending "gaijin" looks either. Not all of them are xenophobic. No doubt there are people who are but don't let one or two bad experiences identify them as a whole. @_@;

[vPharaohv]

Weirdly, I have never had mpa's empty from english players, and I have never been booted from random japanese parties I join even if they ask a question in japanese and I don't answer or I say I speak english.

[Soultrigger]

Hell countries are told to learn English as their curriculum in school, yet in our good ol' school system we only learn Spanish... coming into what grade? And we learn other languages in college... that is freaking backwards... there MAYBE elementary/middle schools that MAY promote (which i soley doubt - mainly if it was a private school) the learning of other languages and the best time (not the only time) to learn is as a child but of course... crud world will always be crud... ;v

Because English is one of the most spoken languages in the world, whereas Japanese is not. Also, as someone who lives in California, the people here are very diverse in ethnicity. Imposing a mandatory second language requirement in the academic curriculum wouldn't make sense for those who would never expect to use it in their later life.

[Syaorandc]

I usually don't talk in any party I join besides saying よろしく～. I have been in a few JP parties where they talked about kicking me because they thought I was a foreigner but they decided not to because I was doing pretty good. I surprised the crap out of them at the end by telling them in Japanese: Thank you for the party and not kicking me because I am a foreigner.
Some get pretty floored when you speak Japanese back to them when they think you can't.




It's not as though every JP person is sending you condescending "gaijin" looks either. Not all of them are xenophobic. No doubt there are people who are but don't let one or two bad experiences identify them as a whole. @_@;

If you want condescending looks, just wear sunglasses here. Ridiculously bad on the train. People forget that you can see through your glasses and they stare at you with the utmost contempt(or at least they do to me and all of my other "foreigner" friends here). It is rather hilarious. So many stories about my experiences with sunglasses here :D

[Zalana]

Ah, the joys of being on a JP server. Somewhat reminds me of FFXI once again... it probably doesn't even bother the majority of the JP players but, who knows or actually cares is beyond me.

[Para]

Those are basically "Good work/Thanks for the party/See you later", in that order.

Edit: On the subject of よろしく：

よろしくお願いします is definitely not too polite or too formal for PSO2. JP players use it with about the same frequency as more informal variations.

Good to know. I figured I should atleast give them the courtesy to attempt to "speak" their language at the barest of minimums if I happen to play with them in a party.

As for other experiences, I recently had a JP player randomly send me a friend request. I wasn't sure who it was so I accepted it and saw that both his username and character name in Japanese. I scratched my head a bit and got a little embarrassed to say anything and in the end deleted this person from my friends list hoping it was just an innocent accident to add me =X

[supersonix9]

Emizel, friend me?


OT: nationalism is bad

[Reiketsu]

Good to know. I figured I should atleast give them the courtesy to attempt to "speak" their language at the barest of minimums if I happen to play with them in a party.

Yeah, just like Hosaka translated.
Also, this thread is a little bit older, but maybe still helpful:
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195616
It's a thread someone else made with a collection of simple Japanese phrases for basic communication in-game.

[Emizel]

Then you're a cheater as well. Your logic is self sabotaging, I suggest you stop while you're completely defamed and humiliated.

If cheating is as "rampant" as you claim, and I know you've done EQs, then the chances of you being in an MPA with a "cheater" are high enough to be 100%.

That would make you a cheater as well by your own logic.

Clearly seppuku is the only answer.

Huh. You're really grasping at straws.

I don't choose who joins EQs with me. You do choose what Team you want to join though.

[Tachesis]

Because English is one of the most spoken languages in the world, whereas Japanese is not. Also, as someone who lives in California, the people here are very diverse in ethnicity. Imposing a mandatory second language requirement in the academic curriculum wouldn't make sense for those who would never expect to use it in their later life.

While the back and fourth and the off topic tangents have made me quite confused as to what you two people are saying (both Soul and the person he quoted), I feel I should add that any second language would be a good thing, even if not used later in life.

Why? Sapir-Whorf. We think in our language, and no matter how small every little bit of other languages we pick up can help us see things from entirely new perspectives. It's difficult and likely to be forgotten, sure, but important nonetheless.

[Anatha]

Huh. You're really grasping at straws.

I don't choose who joins EQs with me. You do choose what Team you want to join though.

Not grasping at straws. I'm showing that your penchant for accusing people is done with the utmost dishonesty.

You basically just admitted that you've no right to call people cheaters just because they end up in an MPA with a person who is.

So I suggest you be quiet. I'd say nicely that you should refrain from blanket accusations of the type you made earlier in the topic, but because you're nothing but rude here and in game, and you're the negative sort of person who just won't stop when asked to keep your negativity to yourself, when you've no excuse to realize how you're ruining other people's day....

All I can say is Shut the Hell Up.

You're a self righteous bully, and with your attitude the way it is, especially in game, you're well on your way to being reviled by a LARGE amount of legitimate players.

Do not condemn the whole for the actions of a few, but I can condemn you solely on your own actions.

The worst part is you don't even realize that you should apologize for your crappy attitude.

[Emizel]

I didn't "basically just admit" that.

If you enter into an EQ, and a hacker is there ruining it... you had no control over that.

If you choose to join a guild like Moon Stone that allows members to hack and promotes the use of third party cheating programs... you obviously had control over joining that team.

I'm not sure why you're making a comparison between those two things, but I guess you are just really stupid or something.

You're really the one being overly negative here. I'm promoting fair play and you're telling me to shut up because you don't like my opinion.

[blace]

You are blatantly calling everyon in that team hackers as well as letting sarcasm go over your head.

[Emizel]

I didn't say that. but if a team encourages cheating, they're as good as trash. even if not every single member actually hacks.

[blace]

You are pretty much saying as such. However you put it, no one else is backing those claims.

[Emizel]

I am not "pretty much" saying that. seems like English isn't really your strong suit

if you re-read my posts, I acknowledge that not EVERY single member hacks.

[jerrykun]

It's all about who you are playing with and what mood they are at.
Let's say I'm Japanese and if I'm like "I'm gonna power level like mad today", then an English guy joins my party and I feel like a hardcore almighty motherfunkler and I think you don't deserve to be in my party coz all you would do is leech, die and waste my moon atomizers, I'd rather kick you out right away or leave party (like most of them do).

My recommendations for Japanese Survival are:

1.- Pack some common Japanese phrases in your shortcuts, use this guide as a good source:

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195616

At least use the common introductory phrases! don't be a biatch! these guys (the Japanese) are hella kind and modals mean a lot for them, if you join their party at least say yoroshiku fuckers!, it will make a hell load of difference, sometimes they even feel stalked if you don't say nothing at all! We are playing on their territory anyways so at least introduce yourself or bring some thugs to intimidate him out of the party!

2.- Pack a nice load of COOL symbol arts, take your time to choose the best, they LOVE symbol arts, I have made shit loads of Japanese friends just spamming symbol arts featuring anime characters, they love them, hell, they might even jack one of your symbol arts.

3.- Disable those childish and stupid autowords you are using, yeah you know which ones I'm talking about!

4.- If you don't know what the hell they're talking about (this happens to me most of the time when they type Kanji since I don't understand Kanji), just type ww, or !!!!!!, or say yes, or apologize if you fucked up somehow.

5.- If you've died a shit load of times, drop them some moon atomizers and tell them you're sorry!. When I first got into Dark Falz Elder VH, man didn't I die like 20 times?! I was the only Ranger in the party and after several resurrections they were like "00" "00" they were out of moons! so I dropped moon atomizers during Falz Elder fight and they were happy, we sent good jobs at the end, etc.

6.- Don't be an ass (this also applies to any game or life itself).

[SuKKrl]

Please don't destroy this topic, there's plenty of good information for players here. Try to at least keep this one alive...

[gigawuts]

Are we seriously back to the point where people will go around accusing anyone who does not make militant efforts to quash hacking exactly the same as a hacker?

Seriously?

Dude. Hacking and cheating goes back to the BEGINNING with PSO. Day fucking ONE. Some people just don't give a fuck what other people do to have their fun. So long as it doesn't shit all over my or anyone else's game experience, I don't fucking care who does what.

If you're going to say I'm no "better" than a hacker, guess what? If I don't give a fuck that someone is hacking without harming anyone else, I certainly don't give a fuck that it gets your jimmies rustled that I don't care.

[Emizel]

4.- If you don't know what the hell they're talking about just type ww

...

lol

[Cyron Tanryoku]

4.- If you don't know what the hell they're talking about (this happens to me most of the time when they type Kanji since I don't understand Kanji), just type ww

I can see that completely back firing

"My mother has cancer"
"ww"

[Emizel]

XD

If you don't know what they're saying, you probably shouldn't even attempt a response

if you want to play with JP, learn greetings, how to say good work after missions & thank you for the party, congratulations for level ups, and thank you for moon atomizers/telepipes.

I would actually advise against spamming www and symbol arts

[BIG OLAF]

Every time I see JP players say something that ends with "w", I just assume they're making fun of EN players. Well, at least in lobbies when there's actually EN players around who are talking to each other. I see a lot of things that mention "B20", as well. Those usually end in a cascade of "w"s, too.

[jerrykun]

Hahaha, well at least it is a positive answer, I wouldn't talk about my mother having cancer in a game tho xD but yeah, it includes the times they would curse me with Kanji hahaha I sometimes take my time to copy paste jokes or replies in Japanese while in the loading screen.
I can't complain about them, I'm just an outsider trying out their masterpiece, I wish I could buy AC with USD but hey, I haven't paid a penny and I'm having a great time.

[Emizel]

masterpiece

oh god

I think it's unintentional but all your posts are freakin' hilarious 2packun

[hope breaker]

so the coin as flip against the english community.. so i guess you fell like us the latino community
hidden in the shadows playing in the us servers, scared of speaking our language. because kick you out the party or make fun of your culture.

you should try to learn the basics if you are staying in a foreign server out of respect. my older friend from the university study japanese (he drag me into this game) hes the one who teach me some jap and how to behave. they even stop kick me of their parties some bad joke but that don't kill anyone.

For me they are the same as you . they are as bad as good ones. but is the same on my side most of my own dislike foreign. ho and you guys are making a drama. we should not be here in the first place anyway is a jap server only and the Tos.
let's not mess around and hope for the best.
you ask.. Do you think it bothers the JP players we're here? R: Yes

[gigawuts]

Honestly, my general rule of only saying よろしく, おめ, お疲れ様, etc. and nothing else has done me well. Also, playing competently helps. Nobody expects you to play MLG SUPERSTAR AMAZING PRAYAA STYLE or anything, but some level of competence is good. Don't go telling players what to do, go with the flow. When in doubt, let someone else make the call.

Like with code captures - if I don't know who wants to do what, I go with the group but don't kill the target. If other players are killing the target I let 'em. If some people are mashing the console I help. As far as anyone is concerned I'm on their turf, why should I be trying to throw my weight around?

JP players generally enjoy courtesy and an easygoing attitude. Don't make a fuss. If you dislike an MPA, just leave it.

[supersonix9]

so the coin as flip against the english community.. so i guess you fell like us the latino community
hidden in the shadows playing in the us servers, scared of speaking our language. because kick you out the party or make fun of your culture.

you should try to learn the basics if you are staying in a foreign server out of respect. my older friend from the university study japanese (he drag me into this game) hes the one who teach me some jap and how to behave. they even stop kick me of their parties some bad joke but that don't kill anyone.

For me they are the same as you . they are as bad as good ones. but is the same on my side most of my own dislike foreign. ho and you guys are making a drama. we should not be here in the first place anyway is a jap server only and the Tos.
let's not mess around and hope for the best.
you ask.. Do you think it bothers the JP players we're here? R: Yes
yeah I agree with most of this.

I played with a bunch of old Japanese friends earlier today. Now I'm not nearly fluent in Japanese (although I do know a decent bit), but I've learned that you will get a lot of respect from Japanese players for at least attempting to say more than よろしくお願いします。 Sometimes people will make fun of you for it, but about 90% of the JPN players that I've encountered really appreciate EN players that try speaking Japanese.

[Anatha]

You're an utter joke if you don't see how your behavior, ESPECIALLY in game, has been overwhelmingly negative.

My point is your rationale is quite irrelevant, you accused everyone in sight who disagreed with you that day. Didn't matter what team they were a part of, if they didn't agree with you they were hackers.

I don't personally like people that hack, I avoid those who do, I never have to go out of my way to do so. On that same note though, I don't sit in a lobby where people are relaxing and hanging out, and start babbling conspiracy and throwing around accusations.

The lobby is not your therapist's office, we the playerbase, do not exist to listen to you bitch and moan about how your dps is crap compared to a hackers, hackers are not really playing the game at that point, you should worry more about how you don't even compare to legitimate players, both in skill and in agreeable attitude.

I'm not a negative person, but I won't stand for someone who is trying to blame-shift the light being shone on their bad behavior.

I play PSO2, to have fun with people I find to be nice, not hear someone's complaining and accusations filling my chat box for an hour straight.

Even more to the point, you're being malicious when you do it. You've got so many blocks to choose from, you CHOSE to come to B20, you CHOSE to start accusing and complaining and pointing fingers every which way. You did it to lash out, you ultimately only ruined the mood of people who were innocent, and I can't overlook that.

[supersonix9]

sorry i didn't mean to

[Emizel]

You're an utter joke if you don't see how your behavior, ESPECIALLY in game, has been overwhelmingly negative.

My point is your rationale is quite irrelevant, you accused everyone in sight who disagreed with you that day. Didn't matter what team they were a part of, if they didn't agree with you they were hackers.

I don't personally like people that hack, I avoid those who do, I never have to go out of my way to do so. On that same note though, I don't sit in a lobby where people are relaxing and hanging out, and start babbling conspiracy and throwing around accusations.

The lobby is not your therapist's office, we the playerbase, do not exist to listen to you bitch and moan about how your dps is crap compared to a hackers, hackers are not really playing the game at that point, you should worry more about how you don't even compare to legitimate players, both in skill and in agreeable attitude.

I'm not a negative person, but I won't stand for someone who is trying to blame-shift the light being shone on their bad behavior.

I play PSO2, to have fun with people I find to be nice, not hear someone's complaining and accusations filling my chat box for an hour straight.

Even more to the point, you're being malicious when you do it. You've got so many blocks to choose from, you CHOSE to come to B20, you CHOSE to start accusing and complaining and pointing fingers every which way. You did it to lash out, you ultimately only ruined the mood of people who were innocent, and I can't overlook that.

"My point is your rationale is quite irrelevant, you accused everyone in sight who disagreed with you that day."

No, I didn't. you can insult me all you want, but don't rewrite history and put words in my mouth.

as for my rant that day... I was upset, and I was getting teamed up on by you and the rest of the lobby.

[Cypher_9]

Because English is one of the most spoken languages in the world, whereas Japanese is not. Also, as someone who lives in California, the people here are very diverse in ethnicity. Imposing a mandatory second language requirement in the academic curriculum wouldn't make sense for those who would never expect to use it in their later life.

Yet... they make it mandatory in other countries... So why would that be so wrong in the US?



While the back and fourth and the off topic tangents have made me quite confused as to what you two people are saying (both Soul and the person he quoted), I feel I should add that any second language would be a good thing, even if not used later in life.

Why? Sapir-Whorf. We think in our language, and no matter how small every little bit of other languages we pick up can help us see things from entirely new perspectives. It's difficult and likely to be forgotten, sure, but important nonetheless.

^ This

Is basically where i was getting at with my one statement... why does the rest of the world have to learn english rather than english-speaking people to learn other languages in their elementary/middle/high schools?

I just think its unfair that they make it 'mandatory' for other countries to learn English and with our system it does not. We don't know if a child would like to visit said country one day... it is also a form of respect when you do learn another language... its saying you taken the time to know who the person is; including what Tachesis said. Why would one rob a child of a piece that exists in this world.

Other than that, we wouldn't have this problem involving language barriers... nor this issue of the current topic upon why JPN players (some) would prefer to be isolated amongest their own.

[gigawuts]

Yet... they make it mandatory in other countries... So why would that be so wrong in the US?




^ This

Is basically where i was getting at with my one statement... why does the rest of the world have to learn english rather than english-speaking people to learn other languages in their elementary/middle/high schools?

I just think its unfair that they make it 'mandatory' for other countries to learn English and with our system it does not. We don't know if a child would like to visit said country one day... it is also a form of respect when you do learn another language... its saying you taken the time to know who the person is; including what Tachesis said. Why would one rob a child of a piece that exists in this world.

Other than that, we wouldn't have this problem involving language barriers... nor this issue of the current topic upon why JPN players (some) would prefer to be isolated amongest their own.

Yes english speaking countries should learn spanish, french, german, japanese, mandarin, and korean, instead of everyone focusing on one language.

I agree that it's a bit silly that english speakers are born with an advantage in this regard, but it makes more sense than making up a whole new language so everyone is equally disadvantaged now doesn't it?

[Cypher_9]

Yes english speaking countries should learn spanish, french, german, japanese, mandarin, and korean, instead of everyone focusing on one language.

I agree that it's a bit silly that english speakers are born with an advantage in this regard, but it makes more sense than making up a whole new language so everyone is equally disadvantaged now doesn't it?

Yep... else one would be ignorant to such things... :v

Adding: Well the world did speak ONE language... but as I keep saying... thank the Tower of Babel for that one... ^^

But with this... all I am saying is, if you are going to do it to one... do it to the other - or just like you said... invent an entirely new language... if one is so willing; it would have to collaborate the most STRONGEST of minds.. lol

[jerrykun]

so the coin as flip against the english community.. so i guess you fell like us the latino community
hidden in the shadows playing in the us servers, scared of speaking our language. because kick you out the party or make fun of your culture.

you should try to learn the basics if you are staying in a foreign server out of respect. my older friend from the university study japanese (he drag me into this game) hes the one who teach me some jap and how to behave. they even stop kick me of their parties some bad joke but that don't kill anyone.

For me they are the same as you . they are as bad as good ones. but is the same on my side most of my own dislike foreign. ho and you guys are making a drama. we should not be here in the first place anyway is a jap server only and the Tos.
let's not mess around and hope for the best.
you ask.. Do you think it bothers the JP players we're here? R: Yes

I'm Mexican. I love TACOs

[gigawuts]

Yep... else one would be ignorant to such things... :v

Adding: Well the world did speak ONE language... but as I keep saying... thank the Tower of Babel for that one... ^^

But with this... all I am saying is, if you are going to do it to one... do it to the other - or just like you said... invent an entirely new language... if one is so willing; it would have to collaborate the most STRONGEST of minds.. lol

Well, get some flyers and start campaigning I guess.

[luca_maygrinn]

It's pretty much a mixed feeling kind of thing.
Others just tolerate our presence. Others just do the "polite" thing and just avoid us altogether.
I'm lucky enough to have been taken into a japanese team who are open to teaching me more japanese as I teach them english.
Right now, I'm the team's mascot of sorts, the token comic, but not in a negative way. (dojikko?) And they make sure I feel just as welcome as everyone else in the team.

(I'm originally from Valhalla Knights team of Ship07, but now have been fished into WHITE 09 Team)

I believe it's just all a matter of behaving properly. "Do as the romans do" kind of thing.
If they see that you're making the effort to meet them halfway, they will recognize you as not-a-barbarian.

[Anatha]

"My point is your rationale is quite irrelevant, you accused everyone in sight who disagreed with you that day."

No, I didn't. you can insult me all you want, but don't rewrite history and put words in my mouth.

as for my rant that day... I was upset, and I was getting teamed up on by you and the rest of the lobby.

Nothing insulting about calling your actions and words negative when they are, and I haven't put words in your mouth, or rewritten history.

You didn't have to come to that block that day, and start complaining, which then turns into you throwing around accusations because people didn't start patting you on the back.

Clearly if you weren't able to figure out that people don't like people who come into the place they are relaxing at and start complaining like you jumped onto the doctor's couch... well then you probably shouldn't have come around to begin with.

Going by responses I've heard in reply to you, you're already creating infamy here on the forum as well.

If you were to stop spending so much energy on overexaggeration, and maybe just start playing the game to enjoy it, like so many do, you wouldn't be putting yourself into situations where you are likely to lash out at people who have done you no wrong.

This is the last I have to say to you, if you've learned nothing from it, then you aren't likely going to learn. I can only hope I don't see you doing the same thing again in the future.

[Emizel]

Nothing insulting about calling your actions and words negative when they are, and I haven't put words in your mouth, or rewritten history.

You didn't have to come to that block that day, and start complaining, which then turns into you throwing around accusations because people didn't start patting you on the back.

Clearly if you weren't able to figure out that people don't like people who come into the place they are relaxing at and start complaining like you jumped onto the doctor's couch... well then you probably shouldn't have come around to begin with.

Going by responses I've heard in reply to you, you're already creating infamy here on the forum as well.

If you were to stop spending so much energy on overexaggeration, and maybe just start playing the game to enjoy it, like so many do, you wouldn't be putting yourself into situations where you are likely to lash out at people who have done you no wrong.

This is the last I have to say to you, if you've learned nothing from it, then you aren't likely going to learn. I can only hope I don't see you doing the same thing again in the future.

The reason I was so annoyed was because I was just finding out about the hacking that was going on. it turned out the players I had been talking to for my few days playing the game (like Will) use hack programs. so I got mad.

you really have no right to say that I don't enjoy the game. all your responses to me have been in reply to that ONE rant from days ago in a lobby chat. I'm not sure why it bothered you so much. I had the right to be annoyed IMO.

and no I haven't "learned" anything from your name calling and telling me to shut the hell up. I'll continue to voice my opinions on public chats and forums when I want to.

[Soultrigger]

Why? Sapir-Whorf. We think in our language, and no matter how small every little bit of other languages we pick up can help us see things from entirely new perspectives. It's difficult and likely to be forgotten, sure, but important nonetheless.

You do know that Sapir-Whorf is based on circular logic, right? You can't argue that language determines how people perceive things on the basis that their perception changes due to language. At most, you can say that language influences how we think (which is a weak hypothesis), but there's no proof that language determines how we think.

@Cypher_9: Do you even realize what you're suggesting? My point being was that you can't institutionalize a second language for many English-speaking countries because of ethnic diversity. It's not like you can't go to a second language school as a child. But forcing Spanish on Chinese kids when those kids are most likely learning English and their native tongue? Just think about what you're suggesting for like 2 seconds, please.

[Tsumiya]

I am sure some dont mind and others are mad but it doesnt really matter in the end =P

[jerrykun]

It's all about their culture, Japan is an isolated country (physically). I would like to quote something I found on the internet:

"Japan for the longest time had closed doors to the outside world. Not integrating with other people nor cultures. A sort of pride was born out of this, superiority is a word some folk would use as well.

Then come Admiral Perry who blew open the doors to trade. Mind you, Japan was one of the last hold outs of a country to not interact with the rest of the progressing world.

Many traditional ideas still exist with this feeling of superiority. People who are even half Japanese (hafu) experience some awful bullying as kids and the parents of those kids.

It is about as opposite as you can get to the American idea of the 'melting pot'. While integration is happening here at a rapid pace, it is still quite slow compared to the rest of the world.

Once more integration happens people should (hopefully) shed more the xenophobic ideas that are so old.

Hope that helps, I'm sure other people can offer other good ideas as well."

Some of us are open minded, some (unfortunately) feel superior and xenophobic (like some Americans that think that just because they are born speaking English, they don't have to bother trying to understand other countries, you are lucky to be born in a Superpower Country, yes, but that shouldn't deprive your curiosity). I'm Mexican and I feel lucky because I can understand English. Most people in Mexico don't understand or speak English and even more people here don't give a fuck about online games either so I'm a minority yet I'm here discussing in English in an English forum about a Japanese game!! Damn! This (in my most humble opinion) is something a Japanese would not do (or could not) maybe because of the difference in complexity of their culture compared to others, and maybe that leads to their xenophobia.

[Arika]

Seeing how broomop sell cheat tool, and a lot of B-20 buy it openly. How 'd you expect them to think good of this "foreigner guests who come to play on their server? and break fatal ToS"

As a few people already mentioned, general "gaijin" now are negative on their opinion, however, they are adult enough to know it case by case when you at least be able to communicate a little. (minimum) to get to know them. Then they usually would add your friends and treat you even better than their jp friends.

There is a common culture in JP is that "they would treat their guest better than their own" So if you could become "their guest friend from other country". They will treat you very well.

It is why a few people already mentioned too, that their jp friends treat them better than eng friends here.

[Polychrome]

Poking around, hoping for news on an NA server, and this thread caught my attention.

I have no plans to attempt to play on the Japanese server unless there's some sort of reveal that there will never be an English Speaking server. I got other MMOs to play, a game backlog, a kid to raise, so even though I miss PSU I'm not exactly hurting for something to do. Besides, I play these things for the story, and if I don't understand what's going on I have no reason to play.

But maybe I can contribute from the other side of the coin here.

On the NA Aion server, there's plenty of Brazillians. Do they bug me? No. I'm just fine with them chatting openly, doing their own thing, etc. I've also seen Koreans playing on the NA server, people from Thailand, Japan... More than anything, I'm curious they'd play on the NA server when better ping times could be found on their own. Maybe they're just curious about the culture, so to me, the more the merrier.

(For the sake of only speaking of actual players here, lets not bother mentioning RMTers.)

Now, you'll end up grouping with people. From what I've seen, there are both people who are extremely polite, and people who are downright irritating. I'm not talking about mere language barriers here. If I'm grouped with somebody who doesn't understand me, I'll try to use other means to signal what they need to do. People are intelligent, they'll communicate. But once I ended up with this Brazillian kid following me around, asking for help on his quests. I was cool with it, did what I could to help him out despite the language barrier. But then he tried making conversation...

Okay, let's face it, I don't know Portuguese, nor do I have any real reason/desire to learn it.

He asked questions in English, I did my best to answer them. And then he started insisting I use Google translator to talk to him.

Really? Come on kid, you're begging people to help you on a server you don't understand the main language on, so do your own Googling!

So as for the Japanese? They probably don't give a flip about most of you, any more than "Oh hey, there's an English Speaker. Lookie that, don't see that everyday. Okay, let's go run this instance and go back to our business..."

(Of course, they'd say that as politely as possible.)

Just don't be a total creep if you group with them, or start acting Entitled. Stick to yourselves, keep your heads down, be nice, make your own groups/raids, don't hop in and bug them in theirs, and my guess is they won't be bothered by you.

[Cortte]

I've had many encounter with JP players and every single one of them went amazing besides one. There was a time where a JP girl stayed in my party 15 minutes after it was going to disband to learn a bit of english. The time it went a little bad was when our group failed a Red Code and he got upset. I asked him to cool off and let him know there would be more. But he called me a stupid gaijin. I think it settled itself later because he got killed and I revived him right after and he thanked me. I think in most cases it depends on your behavior and manners toward others. Each time I AQ with a JP team I say hello to them all, and thank them all at the end.

[BlueCast Boy]

Well depends on the Player thou, well I know some of Japanese language but not that much...Well for me sometimes I can get myself scared and shaken when I'm on a Japanese party but all of them are nice people but they sometime they ask words I don't know well I simply just ignore them but still but It kinda gives a despair moment.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

You do know that Sapir-Whorf is based on circular logic, right? You can't argue that language determines how people perceive things on the basis that their perception changes due to language. At most, you can say that language influences how we think (which is a weak hypothesis), but there's no proof that language determines how we think.

@Cypher_9: Do you even realize what you're suggesting? My point being was that you can't institutionalize a second language for many English-speaking countries because of ethnic diversity. It's not like you can't go to a second language school as a child. But forcing Spanish on Chinese kids when those kids are most likely learning English and their native tongue? Just think about what you're suggesting for like 2 seconds, please.

Right, with language comes culture which is going to have a much stronger influence over thought process than the language itself. It is likely the primary component to "thinking in language".

Also, Soul is correct in that many countries (I can guarantee you America and the UK) are so culturally diverse that many children end up being multilingual before they reach the age of 5. To force a 3rd language on them is intrusive, difficult and can cause some serious issues with parents who want control over their child's education in that respect.

As someone who lives in California, I sometimes feel we're actually a bit too accommodating. I've got no issues with people speaking other languages - far from it. But just like when we're invading the JP servers, we need to be the ones to adjust, it seems like California is really quick to force its citizens to accommodate people who refuse to learn the language of the country they moved to. Seems kinda backwards to me.

[fires2dust]

If you want condescending looks, just wear sunglasses here. Ridiculously bad on the train. People forget that you can see through your glasses and they stare at you with the utmost contempt(or at least they do to me and all of my other "foreigner" friends here). It is rather hilarious. So many stories about my experiences with sunglasses here :D

Out of contempt or just out of curiosity? :-? There are hardly any Asian nations around where people don't stare at foreigners (especially if you're white) in some way unless you're in a place that's frequently visited by tourists, maybe.

Yes, I know it's rude but people do it anyway, maybe unconsciously or not. People give me looks for speaking in English in my own country. -w-' I can't be bothered to be annoyed by it though.

[Emizel]

Poking around, hoping for news on an NA server, and this thread caught my attention.

I have no plans to attempt to play on the Japanese server unless there's some sort of reveal that there will never be an English Speaking server. I got other MMOs to play, a game backlog, a kid to raise, so even though I miss PSU I'm not exactly hurting for something to do. Besides, I play these things for the story, and if I don't understand what's going on I have no reason to play.

But maybe I can contribute from the other side of the coin here.

On the NA Aion server, there's plenty of Brazillians. Do they bug me? No. I'm just fine with them chatting openly, doing their own thing, etc. I've also seen Koreans playing on the NA server, people from Thailand, Japan... More than anything, I'm curious they'd play on the NA server when better ping times could be found on their own. Maybe they're just curious about the culture, so to me, the more the merrier.

(For the sake of only speaking of actual players here, lets not bother mentioning RMTers.)

Now, you'll end up grouping with people. From what I've seen, there are both people who are extremely polite, and people who are downright irritating. I'm not talking about mere language barriers here. If I'm grouped with somebody who doesn't understand me, I'll try to use other means to signal what they need to do. People are intelligent, they'll communicate. But once I ended up with this Brazillian kid following me around, asking for help on his quests. I was cool with it, did what I could to help him out despite the language barrier. But then he tried making conversation...

Okay, let's face it, I don't know Portuguese, nor do I have any real reason/desire to learn it.

He asked questions in English, I did my best to answer them. And then he started insisting I use Google translator to talk to him.

Really? Come on kid, you're begging people to help you on a server you don't understand the main language on, so do your own Googling!

So as for the Japanese? They probably don't give a flip about most of you, any more than "Oh hey, there's an English Speaker. Lookie that, don't see that everyday. Okay, let's go run this instance and go back to our business..."

(Of course, they'd say that as politely as possible.)

Just don't be a total creep if you group with them, or start acting Entitled. Stick to yourselves, keep your heads down, be nice, make your own groups/raids, don't hop in and bug them in theirs, and my guess is they won't be bothered by you.

Just a little note about the big Korean community on Aion NA: they were fresh off the boat Koreans living in America (you were wondering why they didn't connect to their own server with a better ping)

as for your story... Brazilians are infamous for being obnoxious in MMOs. that kid who told you to use a translator is actually pretty polite sounding compared to some I've encountered. huehuehue.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Snip..



Kion's translated the whole story an implemented a patch so as of right now the only things not in English now are the item names. Everything else is in English and in game.

[ShinMaruku]

If you are good player and don't slow down the game I doubt the care if you are like Jack and LET 'ER RRRRIP!

[Emizel]

don't remind me. I beat that game in 4 hours on Revengeance mode.

[ShinMaruku]

Now that's just nasty, hahahahahaha

[Polychrome]

Kion's translated the whole story an implemented a patch so as of right now the only things not in English now are the item names. Everything else is in English and in game.

I seriously doubt he hired a team a voice actors...

I play for the story. I'll wait. *shrug*

[Zipzo]

I seriously doubt he hired a team a voice actors...

I play for the story. I'll wait. *shrug*

Well if you cared that much about the story in its legitmacy you'd listen to it in Japanese...that being its original presentation and all...

Incoming debate on subtitles/dubs etc

[yoshiblue]

If the dood does, is it weird that I look forward to all the fans bawing about bad translations and voice acting?

[Cyron Tanryoku]

It'd be funny if they don't even dub it

personally, I'd rather just have subs, going from what I saw from the PSU series..

[Zipzo]

It'd be funny if they don't even dub itI'd rather that than a hastily thrown together team of in-house volunteer voice actors. Know any well known english anime dub voice actors who would jump like it's hot at the opportunity of being a part of a title that SoA will most likely ruin by themselves?

[Rien]

I'd actually prefer if they didn't dub it.

I don't want to hear Zeno and Gettemhart fighting in English.

Nor do I want to hear Afin whimpering in English either.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

English Dudu
English Lisa

Oh the humanity

[Enforcer MKV]

That's basically what the translation is, anyway. Just the text boxes. A lot of work, though I'm sure plenty of people appreciate it that care about story.

Just hope they give us an option to keep Jp VO while using English Text. They probably won't, but hey, a fella can hope.

[yoshiblue]

I don't want to hear Zeno and Gettemhart fighting in English.

Grant George vs Christopher Sabat again would be pretty funny. Though Grant's voice doesn't fit Zeno's. :p
[WoL vs Garland]

[EvilMag]

They'll have the voice of Ethan Waber voicing every character so fuck no.

[Polychrome]

Well if you cared that much about the story in its legitmacy you'd listen to it in Japanese...that being its original presentation and all...

Incoming debate on subtitles/dubs etc

Or maybe I just like hearing it in my own language?

Or maybe I'm just patient?


If the dood does, is it weird that I look forward to all the fans bawing about bad translations and voice acting?

Not a "dood".

Besides, I liked the voice acting in PSU. I liked Ethan's funny accent. It gave it a bit of flavor for an alternate-world where they never would have heard any language we'd ever spoken.

Japanese voice actors over-exaggerate everything. They're not "better", just high-strung, and some read that extra energy as "better" for reasons I've never quite understood. I'll watch a sub if I have nothing better, or to see the original to compare it, but I prefer to enjoy it in my own language initially if possible.

[yoshiblue]

May as well get Littlekohriboh to do all the voices then.

I use dood universally. Mainly because doodette just looks weird.

[Renvalt]

You do know that Sapir-Whorf is based on circular logic, right? You can't argue that language determines how people perceive things on the basis that their perception changes due to language. At most, you can say that language influences how we think (which is a weak hypothesis), but there's no proof that language determines how we think.

@Cypher_9: Do you even realize what you're suggesting? My point being was that you can't institutionalize a second language for many English-speaking countries because of ethnic diversity. It's not like you can't go to a second language school as a child. But forcing Spanish on Chinese kids when those kids are most likely learning English and their native tongue? Just think about what you're suggesting for like 2 seconds, please.

Y'know, maybe not force it on them, but heavily encourage it and give incentives to those who put forth the effort to learn. And do make it more than just Spanish, please. As much as I REALIZE how useful it'll be to me when I interact with all those imported Repugnican slaves comin' from Texas Border Latinos in this country, I realize we are not a nation made up of three racial divides, but instead, we are a nation of many diverse cultures.

Speaking of which, nobody brings up the Native Americans. Or the fact that we still have them trapped on these "reservations", which in my limited opinion is, well, a form of slavery. Not to mention a lot of Americans (white folk mind you) spit on their existence all the time when we call them "redskins" or "indians" - y'know, I doubt they feel happy about that at all.

At least Japan's indigenous people, the Ainu, are respected by their country, even if some people don't consider them 100% Japanese (whether there are any that suggest such absurdity, though, is something I have no fucking clue on).

Meanwhile, Americans? A good number of us are still acting like the friggin B.C.I.A. (British Confederate Imperialistic Assholes), thinking that we have an entitlement to rule the world.

To these maroons, I have a message: Do us a favor - hurry up and die already. Sooner you meet your "god", the sooner this world can start healing the health and sanity cap you imposed on us.

[Emizel]

Y'know, maybe not force it on them, but heavily encourage it and give incentives to those who put forth the effort to learn. And do make it more than just Spanish, please. As much as I REALIZE how useful it'll be to me when I interact with all those imported Repugnican slaves comin' from Texas Border Latinos in this country, I realize we are not a nation made up of three racial divides, but instead, we are a nation of many diverse cultures.

Speaking of which, nobody brings up the Native Americans. Or the fact that we still have them trapped on these "reservations", which in my limited opinion is, well, a form of slavery. Not to mention a lot of Americans (white folk mind you) spit on their existence all the time when we call them "redskins" or "indians" - y'know, I doubt they feel happy about that at all.

At least Japan's indigenous people, the Ainu, are respected by their country, even if some people don't consider them 100% Japanese (whether there are any that suggest such absurdity, though, is something I have no fucking clue on).

Meanwhile, Americans? A good number of us are still acting like the friggin B.C.I.A. (British Confederate Imperialistic Assholes), thinking that we have an entitlement to rule the world.

To these maroons, I have a message: Do us a favor - hurry up and die already. Sooner you meet your "god", the sooner this world can start healing the health and sanity cap you imposed on us.

sheesh, you are all over the place. and pretty much everything you said is factually wrong

bravo.. :-?

[Renvalt]

sheesh, you are all over the place. and pretty much everything you said is factually wrong

bravo.. :-?

Yeah, well, whaddya expect? People go on about the things the world does wrong, you bet I'm gonna go off on a tangent.

Wait a sec, you were in Moonstone with me at some point, and you're even on my friendlist for god's sake. How could you NOT know by now that this shit happens way too often?

[Zipzo]

Japanese voice actors over-exaggerate everything. They're not "better", just high-strung...

How about no...

English dubbing has earned it's image for being terrible in comparison to its original Japanese presentation, it wasn't made up out of thin air by elitists as much as you'd like to think so in your little world.

Most anime and japanese games are FUBU in a sense...where there are some things that you cannot possibly understand unless you understand japanese. Things like puns, play on words, some jokes or turns of phrases...these things get completely lost in the mix when a dub happens, and it's just an example really as there are many other things. Characters in anime are both animated and modeled around...japanese culture and sociability. It's only natural for native japanese actors to be able to properly express the right emotions that make anime "work" the way it it's supposed to. Dubbing just..ruins all the messages and emotions that were meant to be portrayed most of the time.

Don't get me wrong, there are some animes who are blessed to have had an incredibly talented english cast (I actually really enjoyed the english K-On dub, I rewatched all of season 1 on dub and found it quite enjoyable, especially ritsu)...but that is rarely the case.

[Emizel]

How about no...

English dubbing has earned it's image for being terrible in comparison to its original Japanese presentation, it wasn't made up out of thin air by elitists as much as you'd like to think so in your little world.

Most anime and japanese games are FUBU in a sense...where there are some things that you cannot possibly understand unless you understand japanese. Things like puns, play on words, some jokes or turns of phrases...these things get completely lost in the mix when a dub happens, and it's just an example really as there are many other things. Characters in anime are both animated and modeled around...japanese culture and sociability. It's only natural for native japanese actors to be able to properly express the right emotions that make anime "work" the way it it's supposed to. Dubbing just..ruins all the messages and emotions that were meant to be portrayed most of the time.

Don't get me wrong, there are some animes who are blessed to have had an incredibly talented english cast (I actually really enjoyed the english K-On dub, I rewatched all of season 1 on dub and found it quite enjoyable, especially ritsu)...but that is rarely the case.

just want to note that it's not that good English voice acting doesn't exist, because it does. but most Japanese products I guess aren't high profile/popular enough to get talented voice actors a lot of the time, lol. especially random anime.

and it is pretty common for Japanese voice actors to comically over-exaggerating everything, in fact that's very present in PSO2 voice acting.


Yeah, well, whaddya expect? People go on about the things the world does wrong, you bet I'm gonna go off on a tangent.

Wait a sec, you were in Moonstone with me at some point, and you're even on my friendlist for god's sake. How could you NOT know by now that this shit happens way too often?

I think you confused me with someone else...

[Renvalt]

Don't get me wrong, there are some animes who are blessed to have had an incredibly talented english cast (I actually really enjoyed the english K-On dub, I rewatched all of season 1 on dub and found it quite enjoyable, especially ritsu)...but that is rarely the case.

I'm going to call you out on the bolded part. Remember during the first summer outing (pre-Azusa) where Mio freaked out over Sawako's Goth Vocals? The one line that Yui/Ritsu say after Mio's moe-blob reaction in the dub I felt got ruined BEYOND ALL SALVATION!

The whole "moe moe kyun~" thing was butchered in the dub. They did a good amount of the rest right, but then they didn't, y'know, release season 2. Not to mention, Dub Azusa lacked certain emotions that the original had spot on.

Besides, I'm still waiting on the S1 Dog Days Dub to get fully published over here in the States (in addition to Hayate no Gotoku). It'll never happen though (fucking people who think American anime lovers are complete moronic weeaboos).

Oh yes, and of course, Girls Und Panzer. Rather I take that than Strike Witches.

EDIT: @Emizel - the name "Kurei Renvalt" doesn't ring any bells?

[エース]

This thread is no longer about bothering Japanese players since 3 pages prior.
I've read the whole thread, what is occurring is that every commenting player was a Ship 2's citizen. I play on Ship 1 where almost no foreigners are seen, some Japanese players I played with have never party'ed with a foreigner before, so the reactions are quite different, I have never seen an annoyed Japanese actually, unless it was about a Chinese, but then we already know what the deal with Chinese.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Well Zipzo said pretty clearly that it's just a rarity. I tend to agree that dubbed anime CAN be good but typically isn't. I didn;t see K-On in english so I can't speak to it, but 10 years ago, I absolutely refused to watch Cowboy Bebop in any language other than English.

Classic japanese schtick includes a lot of humor that actually doesn't make sense outside of the language itself. Like spelling changing the meaning of a word, or someone "mishearing" something and taking a conversation somewhere totally silly. Sometimes localizing this isn't too hard, but other times the joke has to be removed entirely and replaced with something familiar which makes it often times seem completely unnatural in its setting.

There's a lot of dubbing that's just awful. I realize that localization is difficult and I tend not to dock points for jokes not making it in and such, but I can't tell you how many times I hear a dub where the VA doesn't even read their OWN lines within their context - let alone the context of the conversation they're having. They have no idea what their character is doing or saying, putting emphasis on the wrong words when trying to use sarcasm or to sound glib.

Anyone else see the first Ranma 1/2 Movie? that part at the end where Shampoo is reading out the ultimate technique as it's written on the scroll? the entire movie everyone is assuming this ultimate technique is something deadly - world domination invincible warrior type stuff. Shampoo reads it alloud and reveals it's actually a pickle recipe. Right after that, Mousse, sounding extremely vexed says "it's an ultimate technique alright- an ultimate technique for MAKING pickles!" Note the emphasis here was on the word "making". say that out loud with the understanding that the pickles here are the reveal/surprise. It should have been "it's an ultimate technique alright- an ultimate technique for making PICKLES!" or "it's an ultimate technique alright- an ultimate technique for MAKING PICKLES!" That's just one example and if I wanted to pick dubbing apart I'd be writing volumes, not paragraphs.

[Para]

This thread is no longer about bothering Japanese players since 3 pages prior.
I've read the whole thread, what is occurring is that every commenting player was a Ship 2's citizen. I play on Ship 1 where almost no foreigners are seen, some Japanese players I played with have never party'ed with a foreigner before, so the reactions are quite different, I have never seen an annoyed Japanese actually, unless it was about a Chinese, but then we already know what the deal with Chinese.

It is unfortunate the thread got derailed. Parts of it make my head hurt and facepalm like Picard.

(holy shiet I just realized I am a relic on this forum. Existed for at least a decade.)

[Zipzo]

This thread is no longer about bothering Japanese players since 3 pages prior.
I've read the whole thread, what is occurring is that every commenting player was a Ship 2's citizen. I play on Ship 1 where almost no foreigners are seen, some Japanese players I played with have never party'ed with a foreigner before, so the reactions are quite different, I have never seen an annoyed Japanese actually, unless it was about a Chinese, but then we already know what the deal with Chinese.
I don't see how you being on ship 1 means anything relevant to the question.

Also, I completely agree about Azu-nyan, I would have mentioned it. She is probably the one english voice actor in the cast I thought did an absolutely horrid "typical" english dub actor job in comparison to her original, and generally made me cringe a little bit when I compared her to the the real Azu.

It's like the english one doesn't even try to make her sound like a little girl, she ends up just sounding identical to Mio which is confusing sometimes.

You really have to admit though, the Ritsu is pretty damn good.

[Emizel]

seems perfectly relevant to me, there's not many english people on ship 1.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Except I'm not on ship 2 either and there are plenty of Japanese players who would rather not play with someone who doesn't speak fluent japanese.

[Zipzo]

seems perfectly relevant to me, there's not many english people on ship 1.It's not relevant because he's obviously not who the question is directed at.

The question is likely directed at the ship where the large (read nearly all) of the majority of the english speakers play...which would be ship 2. If you play on a ship with no english speaking players then...clearly the question isn't relevant to your situation...

[Polychrome]

English dubbing has earned it's image for being terrible in comparison to its original Japanese presentation, it wasn't made up out of thin air by elitists as much as you'd like to think so in your little world.

*sigh* Here we go...

I've been following Anime since the mid 90's. I typically start with the comics first, as they are the "true" means in which the stories are intended to be experienced. In many cases, there were fan translations before an official English version came out, which I'd read to keep up with the story. These would be stuffed with notes on the meanings of the jokes and references. Then I'd read the official version, which would often have its own share of trivia and tidbits. So I'd often have the full cultural notes long before the cartoon even came out in Japanese.

In cases like, for example, Ranma 1/2, Naruto, or Inu Yasha, what I saw was that the cartoon was a bloated version of the original, with an animation team coming up with as many cheap gags and love triangles as they could to fill space until the actual artist could bring out some QUALITY stuff.

As an example, I'd just ROFL when I saw people complain about what the "dub did to Sailor Moon". Did those same people see what the 'toon did to the comic? Yes, I've seen both the English and Japanese. (And even that weird Live Action version that reminds me of Space Cases...)

However, video games are a different format altogether, and are intended to be enjoyed by sight and sound in a different way than a TV program or comic. I'm not gonna sit around and dig through some fan translation online when I'm supposed to be actively assuming a role in a story. It's a different medium, that's that.


Most anime and japanese games are FUBU in a sense...where there are some things that you cannot possibly understand unless you understand japanese. Things like puns, play on words, some jokes or turns of phrases...these things get completely lost in the mix when a dub happens, and it's just an example really as there are many other things. Characters in anime are both animated and modeled around...japanese culture and sociability. It's only natural for native japanese actors to be able to properly express the right emotions that make anime "work" the way it it's supposed to. Dubbing just..ruins all the messages and emotions that were meant to be portrayed most of the time.

That goes for any language. I really doubt anybody here, for example, has read Don Quijote in its original language. But hey, while we're on that subject, that's not nearly the only thing out there that's translated from its original language. What about Pippi Longstocking? Les Miserables? Oedipus Rex? I'm sure many have read them, but I doubt many have read them in their original language. And it's understandable that puns and whatnot would have to be re-written.

But I'm not gonna sit on a high horse and pick on people who, for example, have no ability nor desire to read Don Quijote in Spanish or seek out the meanings of every little cultural reference. Leave that to the people who like it enough to geek-mode about it.

Besides, I really doubt the Japanese were attempting to be OMG SUPAR ACCURITE when they made, for example, Kingdom Hearts. I seriously doubt they hired a consultant on Judaism/Early Christianity when they made Tales of the Abyss. And they've got about 300 different adaptations of the Snow Queen, each with their own interpretation. It's kinda fun to see their interpretations of it. And would Marvel vs. Capcom be nearly as fun without having both a Japanese and English version, both for us AND the Japanese?

I simply want to enjoy Phantasy Star in my own language. If I want a culture lesson, I'll research it myself after the fact if the material is good enough to get me into geek-mode.

Anywho, nobody's saying you're not allowed to enjoy the video game as you see fit. But I know I'm not alone when I say "I just want to experience it in my own language, for better or worse, because I'm a fan of the series and I like what they've done so far." The Sega forums are proof enough of that. And I know they're working on a dub. So quite frankly, I can wait.

[luca_maygrinn]

This applies to ALL ships where english and japanese players interact. Ship02 gets the most exposure, but other ships experience it as well. Both the good and the bad reactions. But point still stands. Yes, most japanese players CAN BE and ARE put off at our presence in the game. But many among them also make an effort to be civil about interacting with us. :)

[Kaziel]

Holy derail, Batman.

I know in a lot of US game servers, foreign players will often flood servers with their language. When this happens, a lot of the players just tell them to "speak english" or "english only." Personally, it's easy to become alienated when you cannot understand the other players, especially when it runs out of control unchecked.
I would wager that the Japanese harbor the same feelings towards us. Just learn some basic Japanese phrases and try not to flood the chat too much.

There's always exceptions to this "rule" though, such as the segregated blocks/channels, which has always worked incredibly well. I wouldn't mind an official English translation and just have us play on overseas servers... but that probably won't happen, and the last thing we need is more speculation. :-)

[ArcaneTechs]

This went from JP people>People yelling at some guy about cheating or hacking or whatever>dubbed anime/voice actors>Page 21

Lets see how long this will drag out.

[holmwood]

Ship 1's issue is that it has alot of chinese bots according to one JP poster at that one website whose URL I can no longer find amidst this sea of derailment.

[Polychrome]

There's always exceptions to this "rule" though, such as the segregated blocks/channels, which has always worked incredibly well. I wouldn't mind an official English translation and just have us play on overseas servers... but that probably won't happen, and the last thing we need is more speculation. :-)

I think the official word on the subject (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they plan on having separate servers for the english speakers. No, don't have the actual quote, you'll have to forgive me. I just see it brought up a lot in Sega's forum.

[エース]

Ship 1's issue is that it has alot of chinese bots according to one JP poster at that one website whose URL I can no longer find amidst this sea of derailment.

Oh yeah I remember it was a big problem back then, there aren't many of them around anymore, did Sega really banned Chinese IPs?

[holmwood]

Oh yeah I remember it was a big problem back then, there aren't many of them around anymore, did Sega really banned Chinese IPs?

I still see a couple roaming around the empty blocks. I heard that Chinese IPs were banned, but I dont remember if it was a rumor or not.

[Polychrome]

I still see a couple roaming around the empty blocks. I heard that Chinese IPs were banned, but I dont remember if it was a rumor or not.

I've seen Chinese IPs getting mass-banned from MMOs a lot recently. It's not just one or two, it's dozens. So it wouldn't surprise me if Sega's enforcing something similar, but it won't stop somebody from proxying or using logins from the compromised accounts of their customers. Heck, it's probably the reason their ToS said "Japan only" in the first place.

I feel old. I remember when RMT was some college kid or two selling plat or items from old EQ on ebay.

[Cypher_9]

@Cypher_9: Do you even realize what you're suggesting? My point being was that you can't institutionalize a second language for many English-speaking countries because of ethnic diversity. It's not like you can't go to a second language school as a child. But forcing Spanish on Chinese kids when those kids are most likely learning English and their native tongue? Just think about what you're suggesting for like 2 seconds, please.

Yes I know what I am suggesting, enable children to learn other languages outside of their own within the US. The word 'mandatory' was used loosely in this and for that I was just making a relation to how other countries 'have to' and not the US - more so make it 'available'; give that child a choice in their language education - instead of introducing it late. Cause goodness knows, when I was in a Spanish class, I was only there to get the elective credit but, it changed when my interest of it adjusted... too bad it came a bit late.

For EVERY person in the world to learn English sounds like an agenda to me and is unfair to those countries who are - at the least holding on to their own culture; I don't want to go to another country just to see that it is JUST like the one I am getting away from (Malta being a perfect example - hated seeing a McDonalds there... LOL). I am sure you have heard of those indigenous tribes and people from US tried to conform them by teaching them that; yet they refused.

From the looks of this, it appears to be a majority/minority thing... if that is the case then all of us should learn Mandarin/Chinese since they are the ones that top us in population... Someone made a joke out of that last I heard... LOL

Other than that, everyone else above me already made the point... to just, learn it...


Y'know, maybe not force it on them, but heavily encourage it and give incentives to those who put forth the effort to learn. And do make it more than just Spanish, please. As much as I REALIZE how useful it'll be to me when I interact with all those imported Repugnican slaves comin' from Texas Border Latinos in this country, I realize we are not a nation made up of three racial divides, but instead, we are a nation of many diverse cultures.

Speaking of which, nobody brings up the Native Americans. Or the fact that we still have them trapped on these "reservations", which in my limited opinion is, well, a form of slavery. Not to mention a lot of Americans (white folk mind you) spit on their existence all the time when we call them "redskins" or "indians" - y'know, I doubt they feel happy about that at all.

At least Japan's indigenous people, the Ainu, are respected by their country, even if some people don't consider them 100% Japanese (whether there are any that suggest such absurdity, though, is something I have no fucking clue on).

Meanwhile, Americans? A good number of us are still acting like the friggin B.C.I.A. (British Confederate Imperialistic Assholes), thinking that we have an entitlement to rule the world.

To these maroons, I have a message: Do us a favor - hurry up and die already. Sooner you meet your "god", the sooner this world can start healing the health and sanity cap you imposed on us.

^ THIS!!!

[Emizel]

language barriers are pretty primitive. with everyone connected, it's natural that the world will evolve towards a global language.

I'm not sure why you equate culture with language so much.

most schools in US offer spanish and french. many offer other languages. I'm still a teenager but I'm taking japanese and latin. but I'm pretty privileged.

spanish is taught most in US because it's most useful for an american. not sure why you don't understand that.

[Cypher_9]

I'm not sure why you equate culture with language so much.


Maybe because, it is 'a part' of their culture... :v

Again, thank the Tower of Babel for the barriers... also I am still for Gigawits idea... let the greatest of minds and a piece of paper come together to make ONE UNIFIED WORLD LANGUAGE

[Emizel]

uhh, yeah, that's why english is being taught everywhere. for one world language. creating a new one isn't necessary.

[jooozek]

Maybe because, it is 'a part' of their culture... :v

Again, thank the Tower of Babel for the barriers... also I am still for Gigawits idea... let the greatest of minds and a piece of paper come together to make ONE UNIFIED WORLD LANGUAGE

yeah
sure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto

[blace]

uhh, yeah, that's why english is being taught everywhere. for one world language. creating a new one isn't necessary.
I don't know about you, but as I'm chinese there are terms we use that can't be conveyed into english.

[gigawuts]

Or, more realistically, this shit's about money.

Many major economic powerhouses speak english. People learn english.

China is becoming a major economic powerhouse. People have started learning mandarin in fairly large numbers.

If portugal becomes the largest economic powerhouse on the planet people will start learning portuguese.

Nine times out of ten if there's a reason most of the globe is doing something, yeah, it's not about a conspiracy to suppress people or culture or etc. It's because the people learning a new language want money, and the new language will help them get it.

[Cypher_9]

uhh, yeah, that's why english is being taught everywhere. for one world language. creating a new one isn't necessary.

I'm opposed to it being English, as I said, agenda - and as Revolt said, B.C.I.A.

@Gigawits I couldn't have said it better myself, that's why I said it was an agenda...


yeah
sure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto

Oh s*** this is REAL D:

also, JOOZEEH *untz untz untz*

[gigawuts]

English is the path of least resistance. China may have more people, but there are more english speakers in the actual first world. English is also very well established in the first world as a semi-standardized language in many many fields.

[blace]

Considering the british conquest of ages past, they did colonize vast parts of the world, conforming the countries they did inhabit to their customs and language.

So anyway, why is this about unifying language?

[Emizel]

oh, so you want unified language... you just don't like that it's english. alright... (kind of a dumb opinion, but an opinion)

[Cypher_9]

oh, so you want unified language... you just don't like that it's english. alright... (kind of a dumb opinion, but an opinion)

Yup, at a time the world did know ONE language, sure as hell wasn't English... :D


Considering the british conquest of ages past, they did colonize vast parts of the world, conforming the countries they did inhabit to their customs and language.

So anyway, why is this about unifying language?

So we wouldn't have to face this issue when playing with JPN players... communication as one said is key and the way to do that... is to know - said language.

No really things just got technical and it just ended up like that. Sharing thoughts is fun on here!

[blace]

oh, so you want unified language... you just don't like that it's english. alright... (kind of a dumb opinion, but an opinion)
I didn't say I didn't like it, but that it does lack terms we vocalize differently in other languages. You said you're taking Japanese and Latin, correct? Then you should know the limitations in place when trying to convey a message across without having to alter its meaning into something different.

[gigawuts]

Yup, at a time the world did know ONE language, sure as hell wasn't English... :D

Yeah, it was a shitload of grunts, and even that's disputable given the nature of-oh you weren't making jokes about the tower of babel were you

[Cypher_9]

Yeah, it was a shitload of grunts, and even that's disputable given the nature of-oh you weren't making jokes about the tower of babel were you

LOL

Well the reference is there... it has to be mentioned!

Least you understood it right? Did you laugh... :D I know I did when I wrote it... . _.

[Meji]

Explains why there's Japanese only parties, and recently I've seen Japanese players direct non-japanese players to go to B20.
^ This.

I've seen so many Japanese players on Ship:02 mentioning B20. And they always direct freshly spawned newb-players (of the Eng-speaking kind) to "GO B20, おK?".
Few of them also talk about how B20 is this ship's cancer, which I somewhat can agree on.


And to answer the question: Yes, we do bother a lot of them. After all, the Japanese people does have xenophobia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia) (lol, I bet Xeno has it, too). It's been in their nature since way back.
But, there are some very nice JP players out there who loves to try and communicate with the rest of the world. I, myself, have already made friends with a handful of them (exchange Skype, join in on conversations, etc).

[Renvalt]

I don't see how you being on ship 1 means anything relevant to the question.

Also, I completely agree about Azu-nyan, I would have mentioned it. She is probably the one english voice actor in the cast I thought did an absolutely horrid "typical" english dub actor job in comparison to her original, and generally made me cringe a little bit when I compared her to the the real Azu.

It's like the english one doesn't even try to make her sound like a little girl, she ends up just sounding identical to Mio which is confusing sometimes.

You really have to admit though, the Ritsu is pretty damn good.

Ritsu sounded like a friggin tomboy. Sawako was spot on in both the Dub and Original, as was Nodoka. Those two are pretty much the only two in the dub that I consider to be good (although Dub Ritsu and Mio were somewhat funny to listen to). Don't even get me STARTED on the Hirasawa Sisters.

[Z-0]

lolwut

[Tachesis]

You do know that Sapir-Whorf is based on circular logic, right? You can't argue that language determines how people perceive things on the basis that their perception changes due to language. At most, you can say that language influences how we think (which is a weak hypothesis), but there's no proof that language determines how we think.

@Cypher_9: Do you even realize what you're suggesting? My point being was that you can't institutionalize a second language for many English-speaking countries because of ethnic diversity. It's not like you can't go to a second language school as a child. But forcing Spanish on Chinese kids when those kids are most likely learning English and their native tongue? Just think about what you're suggesting for like 2 seconds, please.


I didn't say the strong theory was true, I am a firm adherent to the weak theory being true. I'm not sure how your... translation of the theory works though; To a weak degree, if it influences how we think, it does determine, to some degree, what we think as well.

This isn't to say we can't think new things, that we're confined to the structure of our first language(s). That is basically disproven. But it does make things more difficult, and much more difficult to express once they are thought of, if they lie outside what we can already easily express; an alien thought. It's one of the reasons English borrows so many words from other languages, which is a good thing, and not a corruption of good English.

This is hard to explain and understand when one hasn't studied several languages, but the proof is true; Every language you take in changes your perception, just a little. The more radically different the language is, the better. In short, learning more languages is always good for you.

From the tangents being discussed by others such as Blace there's a simple explanation to that. All current major languages come down to about two roots, Latin and Sanskrit. Moving within languages inside one of these families is fairly easy (new lexicon, new grammar, but same... let's call it perception again), but bridging across them is often quite hard. I can't remember the study, but there was an interesting poll performed some years ago that showed that you can directly link this to brain development, and that a Latin rooted language brain has fundamental differences than a Sanskrit rooted one. I remember Sanskrit ones being better developed in what we think is symbol recognition or something? I forget the details.

As to not teaching multiple languages in primary school years, I think there are consequences to that. Been awhile since I read any of that but it was often feared that multilingual children would 'slide' or something? that is, slide between languages and therefore not be terribly competent with either of them. I think there have been studies into that as well, and that the studies heavily implied that children are smarter than we give them credit for, but again, I've forgotten all those references. Been too long.

[Alenoir]

I don't know about you, but as I'm chinese there are terms we use that can't be conveyed into english.

I second this. There are just things that cannot be translated to English without going into a full blow sentence, and we're not even talking about slangs here.

[ShinMaruku]

English is the path of least resistance. China may have more people, but there are more english speakers in the actual first world. English is also very well established in the first world as a semi-standardized language in many many fields.
Also remember most of the First world has languages very close to English as well. (German,Dutch,Danish,French) And then you have the British empire which still operates Economically as it always has been.

[Z-0]

French is part of a different language group than English, so I don't think so.

Don't know about Dutch and Danish, but German is Germanic just like English, though.

[ShinMaruku]

English is heavily effected by Anglo-Norman which added quite a bit of Words to English. If not for Anglo-Norman we'd probably be able to completely understand German and Dutch.

And Yes Dutch,Danish and others are Germanic languages.
Dutch and German are quite similar. Also quite similar to English too because you can't sear at them. Because mutter ficker is just too obvious. :E

[Polychrome]

I don't know about you, but as I'm chinese there are terms we use that can't be conveyed into english.

This mainly spawns from the language being written by pictograms. Often there is the conversational meaning, but the written word is grouped from the meanings of other words.

For example, if the pictograms are considered, the word for "peace" literally means to have a woman under one's roof. A person with home and family is a person at peace. The old meaning of the word is ever present, even in modern uses of it. You don't often hear of somebody in Asian cultures babbling about peace with other countries, as peace is something you achieve for yourself, no matter what the current political state.

No such system exists in English. It's not that we can't research the history of a word for interesting new facts, but that info doesn't (often) carry over into the meaning of a word conversationally. I think that's slightly changing with the internet, but for the vast majority of the language, words don't carry baggage from other words in the same way they do with pictogram-based languages. To a westerner, "peace" comes from Roman "pax", meaning lack of conflict. It's simply what the word means. Researching the history of the Roman Empire doesn't give it more meaning conversationally.

All that said...

My reasons for not learning Japanese are purely because I'd have no practical use for it, not some sort of bizarre desire to remain a stupid American as some over here seem to have implied. My brain's too full from Spanish with a side of Chinese already. (And I'm hoping to grab a rosetta stone for Chinese to brush up on it.) If I like a story well enough, I research the ins and outs and secondary meanings on my own time, but for the most part, there's no real point in doing this for an MMO that I already know will be officially translated. So why bother worrying about offending every other person I meet or screwing up somebody else's instance when I could leave them to their business and do something else until it arrives?

Man, and all because I actually LIKED Ethan's voice. Good freakin' grief...

[Emizel]

yeah, I think Ethan's english voice acting was pretty good too

edit: watching back some videos. SOME stuff is done badly, but in general it's not bad.

[GtSaiyaMan]

Sometimes I have a hard time seeing..

..from what i see (on ship 2) most of the players have "huddles".. there will be a group of JP players in one area...having a conversation..and in another area..there will be english players.. i think everyone has a "..live & let live" policy..

[エース]

While in Rome, do as the Romans do, well and speak Latin too, I have been trying to adapt as far as I can remember, when I was a kid I played an online game on international server. I sucked in English at school, so I had a lot of troubles communicating, but I kept trying, made many friends and they helped a lot with the language.

And so I joined PSO2 with the same concept in mind, I liked PS series, I just started learning Japanese not long before joining the game and I wanted to try it out, but I already knew that English will not be the main language I will be using while playing. So while my Japanese was terrible, I tried somehow to communicate with other players, made many embarrassing mistakes, but in the end I have got a few good friends who are correcting my mistakes and teaching me about Japanese way of speaking, it is all quite interesting.

The problem isn't about Japanese not understanding people overseas, but with us not trying to understand them first, we have joined them in a game that didn't approve us joining in the first place, so the least we can do is to adapt to their cultures, once you get a grasp of that playing with them can be quite fun, unless you join a MPA, then you get a bunch of zombies.
PS.I actually work in a Japanese company.

[Skyly HUmar]

While in Rome, do as the Romans do, well and speak Latin too, I have been trying to adapt as far as I can remember, when I was a kid I played an online game on international server. I sucked in English at school, so I had a lot of troubles communicating, but I kept trying, made many friends and they helped a lot with the language.

And so I joined PSO2 with the same concept in mind, I liked PS series, I just started learning Japanese not long before joining the game and I wanted to try it out, but I already knew that English will not be the main language I will be using while playing. So while my Japanese was terrible, I tried somehow to communicate with other players, made many embarrassing mistakes, but in the end I have got a few good friends who are correcting my mistakes and teaching me about Japanese way of speaking, it is all quite interesting.

The problem isn't about Japanese not understanding people overseas, but with us not trying to understand them first, we have joined them in a game that didn't approve us joining in the first place, so the least we can do is to adapt to their cultures, once you get a grasp of that playing with them can be quite fun, unless you join a MPA, then you get a bunch of zombies.
PS.I actually work in a Japanese company.

Actually, the game was open to everyone at first, it wasnt till some time after open beta that we were "not allowed anymore" but sakai was against banning because of progress or something.

[エース]

I bet none of the producers wanted to stop us from playing, the rule is just probably for some Japanese who don't want us there.

[TaigaUC]

While in Rome, do as the Romans do, well and speak Latin too, I have been trying to adapt as far as I can remember, when I was a kid I played an online game on international server. I sucked in English at school, so I had a lot of troubles communicating, but I kept trying, made many friends and they helped a lot with the language.

And so I joined PSO2 with the same concept in mind, I liked PS series, I just started learning Japanese not long before joining the game and I wanted to try it out, but I already knew that English will not be the main language I will be using while playing. So while my Japanese was terrible, I tried somehow to communicate with other players, made many embarrassing mistakes, but in the end I have got a few good friends who are correcting my mistakes and teaching me about Japanese way of speaking, it is all quite interesting.

The problem isn't about Japanese not understanding people overseas, but with us not trying to understand them first, we have joined them in a game that didn't approve us joining in the first place, so the least we can do is to adapt to their cultures, once you get a grasp of that playing with them can be quite fun, unless you join a MPA, then you get a bunch of zombies.
PS.I actually work in a Japanese company.

I strongly agree with your post. I think it's particularly rude to walk into another country and expect the people there to speak your language. If you want to have good relations, the best thing to do is to express an interest in learning their language and culture, and then it's up to them whether they wish to accept you or not. From experience, Japanese are always please to see an effort on the part of foreigners to adapt to them.

Also, you won't learn if you don't even try. I feel that language is an important cornerstone of intelligence, as we use it to communicate, share ideas and word our thoughts. Being able to express and understand everything in multiple languages can be very, very useful. With this in mind, it's in our best interest to try and learn other languages if we're able to.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that people often look down on other people/creatures that they can't communicate with or don't speak the same language as them. Lacking the ability to communicate seems to often lead to the assumption that the other party is "stupid". Obviously, this is not actually the case.


Edit2: Also, regarding this:


I've seen so many Japanese players on Ship:02 mentioning B20. And they always direct freshly spawned newb-players (of the Eng-speaking kind) to "GO B20, おK?".
Few of them also talk about how B20 is this ship's cancer, which I somewhat can agree on.


And to answer the question: Yes, we do bother a lot of them. After all, the Japanese people does have xenophobia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia) (lol, I bet Xeno has it, too). It's been in their nature since way back.
But, there are some very nice JP players out there who loves to try and communicate with the rest of the world. I, myself, have already made friends with a handful of them (exchange Skype, join in on conversations, etc).

I can't help but feel irritated by English players as well, because they often show a lack of respect for their presence on Japanese servers. But I think it's important for everyone to realize that Japanese people's impression of the English players is largely based on the noisy and irritating ones because they're the ones that stand out. The ones who blend in (such as myself, since I can speak/read Japanese) aren't noticed at all, unless they speak up. I've been in many situations where Japanese people talk about foreigners being scary and playing badly, without realizing that I'm one of them. There was even one ironic situation where they were discussing foreigners sucking at Weak Bullet, then asked me to handle Weak Bullet for the multiparty.

I've also befriended some Japanese who were shocked by the revelation that I'm a foreigner, and they said there was nothing wrong with that, but at the same time I wouldn't expect them to be upset or complain about it. First impressions are important, and if I came across as pleasant to begin with, I don't think they would care whether I'm a foreigner or not after that.

[Sierhiet]

Actually, the game was open to everyone at first, it wasnt till some time after open beta that we were "not allowed anymore" but sakai was against banning because of progress or something.

That is inaccurate. The ToS Clause prohibiting foreigners had been there since Closed Beta and dissapeared only for a short time following launch. It was reinstated in enough time for player's not to invest too many hours, and money, and cease and desist. Anyone comfortable enough to continue after that, and after China's IP ban are taking a personal gamble.

I agree with the communication issue. To be quite frank, I also believe they may take to some offense to the entire English community aggregating into B20 instead of trying to integrate with the server at large. It's the equivalent of walking into someone's house without introducing yourself for dinner, grabbing a plate, and proceeding to a far off corner with a few other like minded individuals; inadvertently hosting yourselves.

[Kierto]

PSO2's theme song confirmed Japanese so that its target audience can better relate to it (link (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11479171034.html)) as opposed to PSO, PSU and PSPo2.

GET OUT THE SERVER YOU GUYS

[Alenoir]

PSO2's theme song confirmed Japanese so that its target audience can better relate to it (link (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11479171034.html)) as opposed to PSO, PSU and PSPo2.


...How did you come to that conclusion?