What are Forces good for?

[PandaRehab]

So my friend and I started playing a bit ago. I decided to go hunter, while he went with force. We made it up to 30 and went on to our respective jobs, and it seems like force/techer really don't have much luster to them. I out-damage him, I'm tankier, and I have better skills for survival. Just what is the upside to techer? Heals when everyone uses their items? Shifta? Is that all? So far the only nifty thing we've found is that he can poison all the bosses that don't matter for a billion damage.

[gigawuts]

Have him get PP Revival in the fire tree asap. They're pretty great at pretty much everything after that, but before that it's kind of meh.

[Blackheart521]

Forces are more about AoE and taking out trash mobs, so they are more useful against crowds of enemies than single target damage. ^^;

[Shadowth117]

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20161289

You're right forces are useless.

[Daveach]

As gigawuts said, PP Revival is a MUST for a FO. Also, he must think about the skill-tree build. Once he levels the techer class a bit, PP Restore is very important: once the sill reaches lvl 10, the PP regen rate will increase by 40%, so PP can last a bit longer because the regeneration is faster, in tandem with PP Revival it regenerates while charging techs. Also, if your friend wants to, lets say, "specialize" in one element, i suggest fire or lightning. Fire deals pretty good damage, and zonde skills can get a reduced cost via skill-tree planning so he can use a lot of zonde-techs with one charge of PP.

Forces main job is dealing damage to a group of mobs; since its the mage class of the game, they are very fragile (glass cannons, specially newearls). Later on you will see the real power of a Force, usually Hunters/Fighters say they cant do anything because FOs/Gus clean everything before they get a chance to attack.

Holy shit Shadowth...that video is making me think about getting a new skilltree for fire techs...

[Zorafim]

Forces are good at everything. I'd say they're overall the best class. The problem is that the skill trees are terribly imbalanced. There's not much reason not to chose the fire tree right now. When specced correctly, fire forces have a half second charge time, do a sizable amount of damage per cast, hit a huge amount of enemies at once, and hit a specific target at an incredible range. Their only downside is that they're weak when regenerating PP, but with techer skills and a good use of cooldowns, this won't be much of a problem.

If you cap PP Charge Revival and Flame Tech S Charge (in that order), you'll immediately see a huge improvement. From there, cap fire elemental masteries (since there's not much point in using any other element with Flame Tech Charge) and tech charge advances. I think I calculated a 75% boost in power to flame techs per hit, and about 150% boost in damage over time with that (not counting time spent regenerating PP).

The downside to this build is that you'll be PP starved. Luckily, Techer has very strong PP regenerating skills. Cap PP restorate for a 40% boost in passive PP regeneration, and then get PP convert to a high level for a powerful PP regeneration cooldown (infinite PP for 30 seconds).

So... That envy your friend has for your class? You'll feel it for his after he gains some levels.

Edit: I just saw that video. That's pretty much exactly how you'll feel after getting those skills I was talking about. Notice how he's always hitting things. He never has any downtime. And he's also hitting for incredible numbers.
In fact... How is he doing 7k rafoies? I only do 1k!

[Alisha]

Forces are OP nerf plz!

[terrell707]

Is it just me, or is that Safoie's range a lot further than normal? Does territory boost affect that also?

[Jay6]

Also, apparently Force/Fighter is a good class combo as well. Mixing a Zonde stat tree build with Brave Stance... Zonde is basically a 1HKO to everything in its path. At least, a friend of mine is trying that build. He also has a Foie stat tree for when he subclasses Techer. I think the main drawback with Force/Fighter would be the lack of the PP regeneration skills that Techer has. Then again, before there was ever subclasses, Forces had to deal with their own way of quick(ish) PP regeneration (switch weapon to gunslash > shoot a bit > switch back to rod).

[Shadowth117]

Also, apparently Force/Fighter is a good class combo as well. Mixing a Zonde stat tree build with Brave Stance... Zonde is basically a 1HKO to everything in its path. At least, a friend of mine is trying that build. He also has a Foie stat tree for when he subclasses Techer. I think the main drawback with Force/Fighter would be the lack of the PP regeneration skills that Techer has. Then again, before there was ever subclasses, Forces had to deal with their own way of quick(ish) PP regeneration (switch weapon to gunslash > shoot a bit > switch back to rod).

Those DEFINITELY have different purposes. The fire tree should not be underestimated. And essentially, Force/Fighter, barring skill trees, is a short term power house. Given the right situation, its possible to play with nearly limitless PP, but its not going to last forever. Of course, with a lightning tree, you'll be somewhat slower, but able to deal lots of damage. You will NOT OHKO everything aside from bosses, sorry, but you will at max potential you can OHKO a lot of enemies. Your PP will last longer when using lightning techniques this way, but all other techs will cost their normal amounts and fire techniques will be worthless. Zonde is also limiting in that it hits the top of whatever you target (even if its just barely above your intended target) and can't go through walls.

As far as Force/Techer goes, its made for long term AOE spam such as in the Nab 2 video I posted where the player is dealing with masses of enemies and bosses constantly. The bosses can really slow down Fo/fi if they can't kill them quick because Fo/Te is able to swap between pp restoration with their mag and PP convert as well as take advantage of their naturally faster pp restoration with PP restore rate if they have that. Its also simpler to play since direction doesn't matter on enemies which can sometimes limit your attack options.

[holmwood]

They are long range dps-mob killers. All around class. I dont think gunners are as long range :D. Their ability to target even far away weakpoints without having to worry much about orientation makes them very good at dps.



Dont you dare underestimate small mob killing. For every rare hunting session, most of the time is spent killing the small mobs and only a small fraction is used on killing the boss. You save the group a LOT of time.

[TaigaUC]

Played every class to 40+ multiple times. I still don't see any really good reason to play melee, aside from if you enjoy melee or a more difficult playstyle. Melee AOE and single target damage are both nowhere near as easy to achieve as other classes.

Ranger/Gunner is generally hailed as a boss killer, although I personally find that Forces can be very effective too. Weak Bullet is essential and helps govern groups, directing the group's attacks towards a single point.

I'd honestly say that Force is the all around most useful class. They have a large variety of spells for all kinds of situations, some with infinite range. They can take advantage of enemy elemental weaknesses, as well as randomly applying effective debuffs. They have the best AOE and several support spells. Be warned that they start out kind of slow, but once you max everything out, they are extremely powerful. I don't know if other classes are capable of doing it, but Forces can easily solo Time Attacks on Very Hard in a relatively short time.

Techer is basically a weaker Force. I think people are generally still unclear about its purpose. It seems to be primarily used as a sub-class.

Gear-wise (and mag-wise), Ranger/Gunner seems to be the easiest to get good equipment for, by far. Force/Techer is so-so. I'm still having trouble gearing my main Hunter/Fighter.

Edit: Forgot to mention that many people like to sub Fighters for the stance damage boosts. Hunter is not as effective because their stance only affects melee and ranged, not spell damage.

[starwhisper]

Force is like Sangoku, while us hunters, rangers, fighters etc are like Tenshinhan/Krilin/Piccolo, ok? Only Gunner/Ranger is Vegeta. Got it?
PSO2 class balance in a nutshell.

[Hrith]

Indeed. It would not be so bad if forces required any skill to play, but it's the only class that requires absolutely NO skill to play (just check any video posted or the sheer amount of people playing the class online). When a class is 0% skill, 100% gear, and does virtually the highest average damage, you know the class balance was done by SEGA.

[Coatl]

Indeed. It would not be so bad if forces required any skill to play, but it's the only class that requires absolutely NO skill to play (just check any video posted or the sheer amount of people playing the class online). When a class is 0% skill, 100% gear, and does virtually the highest average damage, you know the class balance was done by SEGA.

Eh. I wouldn't say it requires 0% skill, but it definitely requires a lot less than ranger/gunner or force/techer.

[fay]

I know everyone here is pretty much saying forces are OP etc, so can someone please tell me what I must be doing wrong.

My force is level 47 currently, and my subclass is techer at 24. Every boss/mini boss in the game one shots me, and most normal enemies can either one shot me or almost one shot me. In terms of damage, My foie for example will do maybe 600-700 damage, while gifoie doing around 300s. But I saw that video and he is doing 1300s. How can it even be that strong. My weapons are not bad, my spells are capped at 14, I'm using the current best force armor and my skill trees aren't bad either. I've got 10/10 on most spell power increase things.
In addition, after about 4 or 5 spells my PP is completely gone and I have to sit back doing nothing for ages because I physically do spells. To cut it short, I'm literally having to do equally as much melee attacks as I do magic attacks, and a force should not have to do that. On my techer I have went straight to the PP revival thing or whatever it's called. It's not level 10 yet but I'm working on it. Despite me having these types of things my PP still runs out. I've even had people say "do something" in the game purely because I'm having to wait for my PP to regenerate sometimes and I simply cannot help it.

[Sizustar]

I know everyone here is pretty much saying forces are OP etc, so can someone please tell me what I must be doing wrong.

My force is level 47 currently, and my subclass is techer at 24. Every boss/mini boss in the game one shots me, and most normal enemies can either one shot me or almost one shot me. In terms of damage, My foie for example will do maybe 600-700 damage, while gifoie doing around 300s. But I saw that video and he is doing 1300s. How can it even be that strong. My weapons are not bad, my spells are capped at 14, I'm using the current best force armor and my skill trees aren't bad either. I've got 10/10 on most spell power increase things.
In addition, after about 4 or 5 spells my PP is completely gone and I have to sit back doing nothing for ages because I physically do spells. To cut it short, I'm literally having to do equally as much melee attacks as I do magic attacks, and a force should not have to do that. On my techer I have went straight to the PP revival thing or whatever it's called. It's not level 10 yet but I'm working on it. Despite me having these types of things my PP still runs out. I've even had people say "do something" in the game purely because I'm having to wait for my PP to regenerate sometimes and I simply cannot help it.

What's your equip and ability and skill build?

[RadiantLegend]

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!
Uh-huh
Force! huh-yeah

XD

[Zorafim]

Use cards for PP, or rods if you're close. Focus on on your techer subjob and get both the PP recovery skills.
As for the damage, I think he just has insane equipment. None of my classes do nearly that much damage. Your numbers do seem a little too low though. Could I see your skill trees? If those are fine, it might be your equipment. Get that 10* card from the spell stone shop, or grind up a 5 or 6* weapon to 10 (should be fairly easy, and the damage is worth it). Affixing may solve your problem, but I know a bit more than nothing about it.
For your armor... Are they grinded? You should be fairly survivable with grinded force armor, especially since you say yours is the best. I don't want to say it's because you're a newman, but that's the only thing I can think of.

[Scale of Judgment]

I know everyone here is pretty much saying forces are OP etc, so can someone please tell me what I must be doing wrong.

My force is level 47 currently, and my subclass is techer at 24. Every boss/mini boss in the game one shots me, and most normal enemies can either one shot me or almost one shot me. In terms of damage, My foie for example will do maybe 600-700 damage, while gifoie doing around 300s. But I saw that video and he is doing 1300s. How can it even be that strong. My weapons are not bad, my spells are capped at 14, I'm using the current best force armor and my skill trees aren't bad either. I've got 10/10 on most spell power increase things.
In addition, after about 4 or 5 spells my PP is completely gone and I have to sit back doing nothing for ages because I physically do spells. To cut it short, I'm literally having to do equally as much melee attacks as I do magic attacks, and a force should not have to do that. On my techer I have went straight to the PP revival thing or whatever it's called. It's not level 10 yet but I'm working on it. Despite me having these types of things my PP still runs out. I've even had people say "do something" in the game purely because I'm having to wait for my PP to regenerate sometimes and I simply cannot help it.

- Techer has 2 pp skills to look for. PP convert which sacrifices HP for PP regen and is an activatable ability that goes to 10/10. PP regen rate should be 10/10.
- Might be missing PP charge revival from Fire Tree on Force. ( This allows for PP regen while charging attacks)
- Charge attacks and go for Just Attacks. Don't go in haste.
- Best gear is affixed with Tech3/(Wolga, Ragne, or Elder)Soul/Abil3, Maybe additional stamina boost
- Also Forces are not geared towards taking hits so it is normal to be one shotted. The reliance is the dodge.
- If you do run of pp from all this, use gunslash and go gun mode for some extra regen.

[fay]

What's your equip and ability and skill build?

For defense, I'm using the set of purple wings. 8/10, 8/10, 9/10
For attack I'm using a Lambda Garland +4. < Granted this isn't the strongest thing but I refuse to believe that's holding me back about 75% damage
Force Skill tree things I have are:
T Attack boost 1 10/10
Flame mastery 5/10
flame tech s charge 5/10
Tech charge advance 10/10
charge PP revival 1/1
Tech charge advance 2 4/10
Ice mastery 5/10
Freeze ignition 5/10 < only got this because I had to for photon flare
Photon Flare 6/10
PP boost 1 3/10

For techer:
Tech attack boost 1 3/10
shift advance 3/10
Deband advance 3/10
wand gear 1/1
Light mastery 5/10 < only because I had to get it for PP restore
Resta advance 5/10 < only because I had to get it for PP restore
PP restore 1 3/10

[fay]

- Techer has 2 pp skills to look for. PP convert which sacrifices HP for PP regen and is an activatable ability that goes to 10/10. PP regen rate should be 10/10.
- Might be missing PP charge revival from Fire Tree on Force. ( This allows for PP regen while charging attacks)
- Charge attacks and go for Just Attacks. Don't go in haste.
- Best gear is affixed with Tech3/(Wolga, Ragne, or Elder)Soul/Abil3, Maybe additional stamina boost
- Also Forces are not geared towards taking hits so it is normal to be one shotted. The reliance is the dodge.
- If you do run of pp from all this, use gunslash and go gun mode for some extra regen.

See, i was looking at the PP conversion skill. I went against it though because I figured I can't afford to loose HP with the rate I die at. Is it definitely something worth getting?

[TaigaUC]

Force can be played effectively without much skill, but with skill they can be brutal. It doesn't mean the people who play Force don't have skill, it just means Force is easy to play.

I consider this the "base" build necessary to make a good Force:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03uAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbIn00 0000ib00000ib00000ib00004OI22SIk000064O7dI2J24Q500 07

It increases general damage and you'll rarely run out of PP. You can branch out and do whatever after you get those points.

I originally put points in TATK and regretted it. The reason people don't put points into skills that give stats is because you can always get stats via mag or equipment, but the benefits of your class skill tree are unique and often multiply your existing stats.

For equipment, you could either buy a Red Staff or hope for an Elder Rod. Grind the Elder Rod to +10 and try to at least get +50 TATK affixes on it (Ragne/Elder/Wolga Soul, Technic 1-3 and/or Mutation). If you have huge amounts of money, slap Boost affixes on everything. If not, then simply a soul + technic would suffice. For Mag, try to get at least 100 TATK and at least 20 DEX/ABILITY. Your character should end up with a total of around 1800 TATK or higher.

Forces can get killed very quickly, but if you play well, you'll rarely get hit. My main Force now has the Snow Banther set at +10 (1003 SDEF) and can take around 2 - 4 hits from high level bosses before dying.


Edit: Sorry, several replies were posted while I was writing. Regarding PP Convert, there are situations where you may die because of the less HP, but if you simply play carefully while it's up, it's not a problem. Otherwise it is an AMAZING skill and I regret not getting it sooner. You don't need more than 3 points in it for it to be effective, although if you max out the fire charge reduction skill, you may find that it's possible to (briefly) run out of PP during PP Convert.

[Sizustar]

See, i was looking at the PP conversion skill. I went against it though because I figured I can't afford to loose HP with the rate I die at. Is it definitely something worth getting?

That's up to you, it's like a quick Photon Blast, I don't use it that often unless I'm playing with Fire tech, neither do my guildmate.
You should try to use a Gunslash gun mode to recover PP quicker.

And sent you a Friend invite, probabely easier to see how you play ingame.

[Scale of Judgment]

For defense, I'm using the set of purple wings. 8/10, 8/10, 9/10
For attack I'm using a Lambda Garland +4. < Granted this isn't the strongest thing but I refuse to believe that's holding me back about 75% damage
Force Skill tree things I have are:
T Attack boost 1 10/10
Flame mastery 5/10
flame tech s charge 5/10
Tech charge advance 10/10
charge PP revival 1/1
Tech charge advance 2 4/10
Ice mastery 5/10
Freeze ignition 5/10 < only got this because I had to for photon flare
Photon Flare 6/10
PP boost 1 3/10

For techer:
Tech attack boost 1 3/10
shift advance 3/10
Deband advance 3/10
wand gear 1/1
Light mastery 5/10 < only because I had to get it for PP restore
Resta advance 5/10 < only because I had to get it for PP restore
PP restore 1 3/10

Truth be told, Stay off Freeze Ignition and Photon Flare...Those two abilities are NOT worth the points. I would also HIGHLY recommend not going for them even as a Frost Build for this time period. They are just not that good unless by some Miracle Sega buffs them.

[Laxedrane]

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!
Uh-huh
Force! huh-yeah

XD

Say it again!

[Sizustar]

For defense, I'm using the set of purple wings. 8/10, 8/10, 9/10
For attack I'm using a Lambda Garland +4. < Granted this isn't the strongest thing but I refuse to believe that's holding me back about 75% damage
Force Skill tree things I have are:
T Attack boost 1 10/10
Flame mastery 5/10
flame tech s charge 5/10
Tech charge advance 10/10
charge PP revival 1/1
Tech charge advance 2 4/10
Ice mastery 5/10
Freeze ignition 5/10 < only got this because I had to for photon flare
Photon Flare 6/10
PP boost 1 3/10

For techer:
Tech attack boost 1 3/10
shift advance 3/10
Deband advance 3/10
wand gear 1/1
Light mastery 5/10 < only because I had to get it for PP restore
Resta advance 5/10 < only because I had to get it for PP restore
PP restore 1 3/10

You shouldn't max T-Atk up, and focused on one element mastery, Flame, or Lightning, Ice isn't useful. PP Boost isn't useful either..

[Zorafim]

I will always say that Force is great because the fire tree is great. With that in mind, this is my suggested build.

http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03uAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbIn00 0000ib00000ib00000ib0000kbIk2XcK000064OdqldI2cF4Qc A0006

Your fire spells will receive a 75% power boost, will fire twice as fast as normal, you'll gain your PP 40% faster, and when you absolutely need more PP, you can use convert. It takes quite a few skill points to make this happen, but each point provides an obvious boost.
By the way, I rarely use wand gear. I suggest picking it up just because it provides a huge boost to melee damage, but I rarely melee anymore. So if you want to get your PP boosting skill earlier, you could try skipping that. It's probably not worth it, though.

[chaoko99]

they are good for

1) breaking cannon, because apparently magic is bound to machines now (CAST can apparently use TECHS)

2) those who get the bad drop tables (i'm talking to you WHTLL!)

3) those who understand, that with all the letters in a given set of TECHS you can spell "support role!"

4) people who don't know what "support role" means (too common, miss the old rule of "forces, never TFF without them!")

[SPOnion]

For defense, I'm using the set of purple wings. 8/10, 8/10, 9/10
For attack I'm using a Lambda Garland +4. < Granted this isn't the strongest thing but I refuse to believe that's holding me back about 75% damage


The difference a weapon provides between a +4 and +10, along with the affixies on the weapon and units, can make some differences. Along with the multiplier of the tree the damage difference can be bigger.

Also you can use this simulator to help with your skill plannings
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/

Usually speaking in the current game the skills in the ice tree are actively avoided, while Fire or Shock is favored depending on your style.

If you don't want to pay 500 AC for a new tree, personally I would recommend developing tree like this on FO, though I'm not sure how you get PP UP 1 wihout getting Freeze boost first, so I ignore that part:
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03uAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbIn00 0000ib00000ib00000ib0000GBI22SqxqncA0000f4OdqldI2I S0000

It is to support Wind/Light/Darkness techniques since you really don't have enough SP to make either Fire (Which requires S Charge and both masteries at 10) or Shock very effective (PP save at 10 and 2 masteries. But it is good that you have got PP Charge Revival.

The TE side currently is all good and further development will be based on which element you want to spec into or if you need both PP Res and PP Cvt.
Also since the skills in your FO tree is tight, you might (or might not) want to take Just Reversal in your TE tree

When you don't have PP, you can use Gunslash(shooting mode) to hit things to get PP
And it is not unnatural for an FO to be two-shots killed even with purple wings, but anyhow you want them to be at +10;

[Caledonia]

4) people who don't know what "support role" means (too common, miss the old rule of "forces, never TFF without them!")

The problem with that is PSO2 is much more movement based than PSO was. 7/10 times, if I'm trying to heal someone, by the point I've got to them and charged resta up so it'll include them, they've already chugged back a mate and charged the mobs again -nevermind that I have to get in close to the action to heal them anyway. And yeah, Talises solve the up-close issue, but they have their own set of problems.

Because of that, Force really isn't a support role anymore.

[TaigaUC]

Yes. Trying to heal people in PSO2 tends to be very frustrating.

Ice techs and skills both feel weak and useless. If you really want to play ice, you're probably better off playing a frost mage in World of Warcraft or something.

[supersonix9]

forces suck









enemies into a single spot with zondeel

[Macman]

What are forces good for? Melting all the monsters before all the melee classes can get within striking distance.

[serenade]

The problem with that is PSO2 is much more movement based than PSO was. 7/10 times, if I'm trying to heal someone, by the point I've got to them and charged resta up so it'll include them, they've already chugged back a mate and charged the mobs again -nevermind that I have to get in close to the action to heal them anyway. And yeah, Talises solve the up-close issue, but they have their own set of problems.

Because of that, Force really isn't a support role anymore.

i recently had a discussion with a team member who asked why i never bothered to buff or resta unless it was during a PSE, specific code, or right before the boss. they prefer to support first and spam shifta/deband/resta regularly, which is perfectly fine. they apparently didnt agree with my "juke em and nuke em" play style and kind of eluded that i wasnt a "true" force. needless to say, i explained to them the flaws of trying to charge a tech and chase down a party (note: you walk slower than your party while charging making it even harder to get them in the resta window) as well as the fact most people buy buffs before the mission. shifta and deband have horrid lifespans and would require you to spam that the entire mission while not really doing any damage. i also mentioned the ability to wipe out most mobs before anyone even takes damage....


until sega redoes the buffs and increases restas range, you will only see me bothering to use those spells for specific situations. as far as i'm concerned, sega all but killed the support force in PSO2.

[~Aya~]

Yep.. Support Force is a little limited.. I'm focusing FO/TE with Fire/Lightning/Wind builds. I'm level 50 Force / 38 Techer. My Zonde deals around 24k-25k DMG with Weakbullet present and Shifta against non-weak mobs. My Zan with Weakbullet can deal up to 38k if Zan comes back and hit multiple times. W/o Weakbullet and non-weak to elemental I hit roughly 4k dmg Zonde. My goal is to reach 100k DMG with Zan by the time i'm 55/55 and with the correct affixes/Weapon to support that goal. P-wand is probably a must and WITH potential unlocked.

[fires2dust]

Force has better T-atk stats than Techer. Hunter/Fighter will always have better S-def/S-atk than Techer.

A lot of people seem to look at techer as a mediocre class but it depends how you look at it. While they're not necessarily the best at something if on equal level and equipment as Hunter/Fighter or Force, I find they're versatile. Their melee attacks may not have PAs but I find it better than relying on a gunslash. Wand gear makes it all the better.

Then, there's also the higher s-def than forces. Of course not as tanky as Hunters but it allows them to weave between frontline and back without getting 1-hit KO in case they fail to evade. Some mobs are also just faster to kill up-close with a wand than charge, and hit from farther away.

Buffs do make some difference. I invested more SP in Shifta, raising attack power than defense... which people prioritize more. I always buff my party or try my best to buff them when it runs out. I also heal them when I can, so the only times they use mates is when I'm too far away to heal them or in a boss fight where I can't be everywhere at once.

And I don't really use Zondeel, I hate that skill on force friend partners, actually. The feeling is somewhat mutual when someone air juggles enemies out of your reach or uses some kind of throw move in the middle of executing a tech as well.

[PandaRehab]

Thanks for all of the replies, guys. Maybe this will change his mind about the usefulness of the class. Though I don't think he'll stick to it when the NA version comes along since he doesn't enjoy the gameplay of it.

[Zorafim]

Tell him to play all the classes to lv10. Have him solo a rockbear. When he can do that, he can see the general gameplay of all the classes, and chose which one he wants.

Also, don't bother with the NA release. At this point, the only thing an NA release can give is english item names.

[PandaRehab]

Tell him to play all the classes to lv10. Have him solo a rockbear. When he can do that, he can see the general gameplay of all the classes, and chose which one he wants.

Also, don't bother with the NA release. At this point, the only thing an NA release can give is english item names.

He and I don't really mind playing JP since the English patch does a lot for us, but unfortunately a lot of our friends have decided to just wait for the NA version. Idunno if that's the best comparison between classes to be honest. I mean, the major point I've picked up from this whole thread is that Forces really pick up late game when they get down their skill tree.

[Zorafim]

I know. I'm one of the ones that said that. While that's true, low level still gives a good example. High level forces may have much higher modifiers, faster and more versatile techs, and more PP regeneration, but lower level forces actually hit much harder in comparison to hunters and rangers. The most major difference is that you'll be using more techs at higher level, while a smaller amount will do the trick in lower levels.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

He and I don't really mind playing JP since the English patch does a lot for us, but unfortunately a lot of our friends have decided to just wait for the NA version. Idunno if that's the best comparison between classes to be honest. I mean, the major point I've picked up from this whole thread is that Forces really pick up late game when they get down their skill tree.

Actually, I fell in love with force by the time I was lvl 5. I tend not to like slower game play which is what Fo seems like early on, but I saw the potential and even then the AoE was ridiculous. I was clearing rooms before my Hu friends got close. and back then I had fun throwing out a talis and playing foie turret. By the time I was fighting caves bosses I had decided that Fo was probably the most OP class in the game. That's debatable now and I actually really enjoy Gu/Ra as well, but the point stands. Fo is fun, does great damage and has some of the best survivability in the game


NOW I'm still clearing out stuff as it spawns and soloing bosses on vhard in my sleep. Fo/Te has to be one of my favorite class combinations. It's not for everyone, but between Gu/Ra and Fo/Te or Fo/Fi, most things don't live long enough to present a challenge, even in AQs.

[holmwood]

I eventually decided to roll a Fo/Fi using sabre legacy with pp regen weapon potential. 30-40 pp regen per attack cycle should, in theory, boost their dps potential by twotold. Gunslash regens only about 20 pp/ cycle.
:P

Not to mention the fact that weakpoints are so much easier to target with a force...

But seriously, no bosses atm are difficult enough to even consider specialized roles. So everyone is pretty much dps.:-?

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Makes it so some builds are heavily desirable and others effectively just take up space.


...At least that's the simple breakdown.