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Jinki
Feb 27, 2013, 08:44 PM
Heyo, I was wondering if any of you vets could give my skill tree a quick look-see. I'm going to remake my character (into a Female Newman) and right now, on paper, I'm trying to figure out how to distribute her Mag points, but in order to do that I need to know how much S-ATK and S-DEF I'll be pulling from the Skill Tree. Also, I understand that only 20% of the sub-class' stats make the transition to your character, and that some abilities stack/remain available (i.e. Fury+Brave Stance), but do the passive, like S-ATK Up, remain as well?

Anyway, here is the build I'm considering: Hu/Fi Skill Set (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbkIqo GKsO6J000092OJbJb2O00007b00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000 f)

All of my concerns really lie with the Hunter side. I'm fairly confident in the Fi side, but I've never played as a Fi, so I could be missing something. If so, have at me, please. This is my concern: are JA Bonus 1 and 2, as well as Fury S Up 1 and 2, worth the points I'm putting into them, or should I scale 1 or all of them back and pick up some of the S-ATK Ups on the right; kind of like This (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbkIqo tFboGEI2IkcA000082OJbJb2O00007b00000ib0000Ib00000i b00000f)?

Any other critique is more than welcome as well. Thanks a lot for your time.

SociableTyrannosaur
Feb 27, 2013, 08:47 PM
Yes the entire skill tree transfers over. stat ups and all.

Looking at your tree:

avoid critical up skills. they do nothing except waste SP. Wise stance is just as important as brave stance, you're investing too much into fury stance and you dont need step advance that high.

is there's a reason you're avoiding sword gear?

Jinki
Feb 27, 2013, 08:49 PM
Thanks much for that bit Sociable.

SociableTyrannosaur
Feb 27, 2013, 09:00 PM
NP. Here's a cookie cutter Hu/Fi build (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbW7Ylbk IqoGKcB5dInik00008ebrbGBeBGFIb2N0000Ib00000ib0000I b00000ib00000f) with a mag that will help you to equip just about everything.

It's really not good to put SP into stat ups if you can avoid it. 50 S Atk is a lot early on but once you have weapons that give 900 S Atk, Armor that gives 60+ per unit as well as a 45-60 Atk set bonus and your base with your mag is over 600, that 50 SP is such a small percentage it's just not worth it. meanwhile skills like JA advance start out small, boosting that 100 damage up to 110 or 121, but eventually your 1000s are becoming 1210s your 5000s are 6050s, etc. much more gain than that 50 S atk would ever get you. Wise stance at 5 with wise stance up 1 at 10 gives you a ~60% damage boost when attacking from behind. This is huge. Chase Advance at 10 gives a 40% damage boost with all striking attacks performed on a target with an SE on them.

Try to get as many boosts like these as you can get.

Jinki
Feb 27, 2013, 09:39 PM
The main thing I'm concerned about with the S-ATK Up passives is that even if I follow your build, I wont have enough S-ATK to equip the best Wired Lance nor Twin Daggers in the game, nor will I be able to equip the best units, save for the Rear Unit.

Also, I thought about grabbing Wise Stance too, but Brave Stance, in my experience seems more practical, especially since I tend to spend more time alone than with a group. I really can't see justifying having both of them, but rather it'd be better to have one or the other. I know most people fear the head area, but I'm a old Hammer vet in Monster Hunter so I feel pretty at home there.

Iron Will isn't something I'd want to bother with or rely on, nor is War Cry. Again, I'm alone 90% of the time, dying isn't a big deal (rarely ever die) nor is getting aggro.

As for the Fighter side, I was curious about Chase Advance, but playing alone it seems useless. I've also not played enough in a group to realize how often a SE is on a mob.

Thanks again, despite saying all that, you got me thinking in the right way to make a few changes.

SociableTyrannosaur
Feb 27, 2013, 10:20 PM
Actually:

The best armor can be equipped at 547 S def(hint: it's not zan) and unless you already have a diabolic gauntlet, you shouldn't be counting on it dropping. it's a rare drop that only comes from one monster in one mission. if you're completely rerolling, it's going to be a while before you get there anyway at which point the cap is going to be 60 and you CAN equip it. Besides if you solo as much as you imply I doub't you're going to be running many AQs.

Following your line of thinking why not bank on a falclaw? it's even stronger and has a lower equip requirement plus it's equippable by fighter while Diabolic isn't. if you don't like iron will, then get Automate Halfline. A lot of WL PAs can't be canceled and have hyper armor so being able to auto heal mid PA will be useful.

You're picking the worst race/gender for melee combat but you're gimping yourself a lot more by trying to get that new shiny a bit earlier than you are just going with second best and waiting it out.

You can get more use out of Wise Stance than you think. Many bosses are easy to get behind and attack for improved damage, for some it's almost required (like breaking Vol's Tail) and when fighting certain bosses (like ragne) Not only will you want that stance for when attack their rear, but you can actually get a wise stance bonus when attacking their weak point without having to do anything tricky except stand a bit further back than you normally would. Wise stance gives way better damage than brave does. ~60-70% vs ~40%.

Lastly, you do realize you can affix SEs onto your weapons right? I have a Stag Cutlary with Vol Soul Power III and Burn III. took me less than 300k to do it, too. I also have a DS legacy I made a while ago with Gwana Soul and Poison III. You can do similar things with other SEs as well.

Lostbob117
Feb 27, 2013, 10:50 PM
S-Atk up is better then Fury stance up.

Lostbob117
Feb 27, 2013, 10:51 PM
Ideal if you don't use swords: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0jebIoq nGKcBGDjcA00009bJIGBcBGK0000lb00000ib0000Ib00000ib 00000f

Ideal if you use swords: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0jebIoq nGKcBGDInfcA00009bJIGBcBGK0000lb00000ib0000Ib00000 ib00000f


There we go.

SociableTyrannosaur
Feb 27, 2013, 11:02 PM
S-Atk up is better then Fury stance up.

I knew I forgot to mention something.

thanks

SociableTyrannosaur
Feb 28, 2013, 06:31 AM
Ideal if you don't use swords: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0jebIoq nGKcBGDjcA00009bJIGBcBGK0000lb00000ib0000Ib00000ib 00000f

Ideal if you use swords: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0jebIoq nGKcBGDInfcA00009bJIGBcBGK0000lb00000ib0000Ib00000 ib00000f


There we go.

I just want to go on record as saying I don't agree with either of these.

Z-0
Feb 28, 2013, 11:50 AM
psst:

they're buffing fury stance to have a percentage chance from the looks of it. so no, s-atk up is not better (and it never was: the r-atk bonus is nice if you ever plan to play ranger, and you get like a godly 5 MORE ATTACK if you choose s-atk up over fury up).
or if I'm reading it wrong, it's getting buffed anyway.

gigawuts
Feb 28, 2013, 11:53 AM
Never never never never never invest in more static points specifically to buff your damage.

Never never never.

edit: knowing people around here I should specify a bit more

Z-0
Feb 28, 2013, 12:16 PM
you should totally do it now if you have free pointz and there's nothing better to get

coz free skill resets with each tree expansion now. o/

gigawuts
Feb 28, 2013, 12:27 PM
Watch. Just watch. Once per account ever - as in not per char or per tree update - on one tree per class.

And that's if they actually let us have the free resets at all.

Which they won't.

Instead, they won't upgrade trees at all. Ever again. Now everything new will be with latents. There will be triple latent weapons and latents on units, plus affixes that suddenly have very active properties. Flinch guard? Affix. Melee PP consumption? Tier 2 latent (Tier 1 latent is 2% critical rate for melee while using guard stance).

Just you wait.

Coatl
Feb 28, 2013, 01:15 PM
Watch. Just watch. Once per account ever - as in not per char or per tree update - on one tree per class.

And that's if they actually let us have the free resets at all.

Which they won't.

Instead, they won't upgrade trees at all. Ever again. Now everything new will be with latents. There will be triple latent weapons and latents on units, plus affixes that suddenly have very active properties. Flinch guard? Affix. Melee PP consumption? Tier 2 latent (Tier 1 latent is 2% critical rate for melee while using guard stance).

Just you wait.

You know that since they promised free skill tree resets they are scheming a way to fuck us over.
Just don't give them any ideas. ^^
I really hope it's not just one per account. That'd be complete BS.

Z-0
Feb 28, 2013, 01:18 PM
Didn't realise they might only send out skill tree resets per account... I have 3 characters, and 2 of them have trees I'd like to fix.

gigawuts
Feb 28, 2013, 01:25 PM
Oh, I promise you - if they're mentioning "giving" something away it's only because they already have a catch in mind.

UnLucky
Feb 28, 2013, 01:55 PM
Wait, free skill resets? I missed that announcement.

How will that work if you don't have multiple trees already? You know, since you can't reset an equipped tree.


Ideal if you don't use swords: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0jebIoq nGKcBGDjcA00009bJIGBcBGK0000lb00000ib0000Ib00000ib 00000f

Ideal if you use swords: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0jebIoq nGKcBGDInfcA00009bJIGBcBGK0000lb00000ib0000Ib00000 ib00000f
No Just Guard? No Partisan Gear? I mean sure it's purely offensive, but you're not getting as much out of your Fighter as you think.

SociableTyrannosaur
Feb 28, 2013, 03:27 PM
Watch. Just watch. Once per account ever - as in not per char or per tree update - on one tree per class.

And that's if they actually let us have the free resets at all.

Which they won't.

Instead, they won't upgrade trees at all. Ever again. Now everything new will be with latents. There will be triple latent weapons and latents on units, plus affixes that suddenly have very active properties. Flinch guard? Affix. Melee PP consumption? Tier 2 latent (Tier 1 latent is 2% critical rate for melee while using guard stance).

Just you wait.

The item they refer to is something like "reset all". Implication is that if the skilltrees do get updated again it will be all skill trees at least for 1 character, though I admit this says nothing for those of us who have 3.

ShinMaruku
Feb 28, 2013, 03:29 PM
Did I read skill reset. Sega learning? Fuck the world is going to end.

UnLucky
Feb 28, 2013, 03:31 PM
Hopefully it'll let me use the build I recommend for others. Still not going to waste further points on an assumption.

Or maybe I want Wise Critical after all...

Nandemon
Feb 28, 2013, 04:30 PM
Watch. Just watch. Once per account ever - as in not per char or per tree update - on one tree per class.

And that's if they actually let us have the free resets at all.

Which they won't.

Instead, they won't upgrade trees at all. Ever again. Now everything new will be with latents. There will be triple latent weapons and latents on units, plus affixes that suddenly have very active properties. Flinch guard? Affix. Melee PP consumption? Tier 2 latent (Tier 1 latent is 2% critical rate for melee while using guard stance).

Just you wait.

Skill trees are getting upgraded though, aren't they?

Jinki
Feb 28, 2013, 05:10 PM
Actually:

The best armor can be equipped at 547 S def(hint: it's not zan) and unless you already have a diabolic gauntlet, you shouldn't be counting on it dropping. it's a rare drop that only comes from one monster in one mission. if you're completely rerolling, it's going to be a while before you get there anyway at which point the cap is going to be 60 and you CAN equip it. Besides if you solo as much as you imply I doub't you're going to be running many AQs.

Ah, see, typically I play PS games for the long-haul of their duration, so a seriously rare drop doesn't bother me one bit. As well, I'm not averse to group play, but for the duration of PSO2, I've had to pretty much stick to it because of, well, things. When it comes time to group up for the goods, I'll definitely be doing that.


Following your line of thinking why not bank on a falclaw? it's even stronger and has a lower equip requirement plus it's equippable by fighter while Diabolic isn't. if you don't like iron will, then get Automate Halfline. A lot of WL PAs can't be canceled and have hyper armor so being able to auto heal mid PA will be useful.

I was considering the Felclaw as well, but I only wanted to post on the durastics. I figure if I build for drastic, I'll have the options later on to do what I please, without much concern. Really the mindframe is not to make a perfect build, but yet to create one in which I don't have to worry myself with equipment requirements at any given maximum level.

Also on this I would like to mention, thank you for one hell of a good suggestion. I hadn't even considered a scenario where Automate Halfline would be even remotely useful, good stuff.


You're picking the worst race/gender for melee combat but you're gimping yourself a lot more by trying to get that new shiny a bit earlier than you are just going with second best and waiting it out.

Absolutely, I understand this. This is why I'm trying to get it right build wise. I could go Cast and be equally as happy, I think, as this is an aesthetics desire more than anything, but I got to thinking that if I ever decided to do something completely different than hunter (which I doubt) it would be a Tech based class. Human just isn't an option, I never pick being a human in a game where other possibilities are present.

About the "shiny" I didn't realize that I was coming off like that. I don't really care about -when- I get it, what I do care about is that I can equip it, eventually. Basically, I do not want to be stuck at a level cap and unable to use the best items possible. That said you make a great point too and I will admit, I do not care if I'm stuck at, say 55 and 60 is known to be coming, that's fine. I just don't want to be locked out of gear at say, 75, expecting there to be and 80 cap, and then they decide to never increase the cap again.


You can get more use out of Wise Stance than you think. Many bosses are easy to get behind and attack for improved damage, for some it's almost required (like breaking Vol's Tail) and when fighting certain bosses (like ragne) Not only will you want that stance for when attack their rear, but you can actually get a wise stance bonus when attacking their weak point without having to do anything tricky except stand a bit further back than you normally would. Wise stance gives way better damage than brave does. ~60-70% vs ~40%.

Huh, well then I'll be reconsidering that then. So something like This (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbIn00 0000febrbqoboJkfcA0000Ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000f ) would be more ideal, than say, going to heavily into Brave Stance? (click on the Fi tab, something got messed up and it defaults to Hu)


Lastly, you do realize you can affix SEs onto your weapons right? I have a Stag Cutlary with Vol Soul Power III and Burn III. took me less than 300k to do it, too. I also have a DS legacy I made a while ago with Gwana Soul and Poison III. You can do similar things with other SEs as well.

I realize that now that you bring it up, yes. If I recall that whole system was either in an update after I had to take my leave for a while, or something I just didn't get much into exploring. So yeah, recalling that system makes Chase Advance very important, what about Chase Bind, is that something that is good enough with just one point to activate it, or should I look to put more into it?


Again, thanks a lot for your help as well as to the others throwing out suggestions, this is much appreciated.

UnLucky
Feb 28, 2013, 05:25 PM
Huh, well then I'll be reconsidering that then. So something like This (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03gAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbIn00 0000febrbqoboJkfcA0000Ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000f ) would be more ideal, than say, going to heavily into Brave Stance? (click on the Fi tab, something got messed up and it defaults to Hu)

Don't... don't get Wise Critical. Try something like this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03dAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbIn00 0000febrbGBboGKIb2N0000Ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000 f). Brave/Wise Stance themselves don't give a huge boost when maxed (5%), but Brave/Wise UP give a lot (10-20%), so don't skimp on either.

Crits are just garbage. If you look around a bit on any explanation about Dex (Ability/Skill whatever) or critical hits, you'll know why. The short answer is: They are not a multiplier. They cannot go above 1x regular damage. Full stop.

If you absolutely have to have extra S-Atk, you try this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03dDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbW7Ylbk IqoqKcB5dInik00008ebrbGBcBGFIb2N0000Ib00000ib0000I b00000ib00000f).

SociableTyrannosaur
Feb 28, 2013, 06:20 PM
snip




Swords:
8* Lambda Aristin (All-Class). Requires 345 Dex. 731 at +10
9* Lambda Ardillo. Requires 578 S-Atk. 789 at +10
10* Elder Pain. Requires 580 S-Atk. 900 at +10
10* Kagudachi. Requires 600 S-Atk. 927 at +10
10* Burn Spada. Requires 620 S-Atk. 961 at +10

Look up whatever category you want on http://cirnopedia.frostsabre.com

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Elder Pain vs Burn Spada. 60 Atk is certainly something but not that significant when you're looking at say 1800 S atk vs 1860 (not unobtainable numbers by any stretch). The % increases you get from stances and other bonuses will far outweigh that 60 S Atk.

Jinki
Feb 28, 2013, 06:33 PM
I had been using that website to figure what I would need, state wise to begin with, but I pretty much went down to the bottom and picked the best weapons based on fully upgraded S-ATK only. I understand where you're coming from. My main goal in creating this thread though, was to create a build for having a character/Mag with no equipment issues in the end. So that's sort of where I was coming from. Really, that's my goal because I'm not going to (at least try not to) go through the hassle of buying reset items in this game while I'm in the U.S. for another year or so. That said, you've waken me up in that equipment, in the end, isn't really something I should focus on, else I'll lose sight of what will really keep me from performing well. Thanks again.


Don't... don't get Wise Critical. Try something like this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03dAbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIk0lbIn00 0000febrbGBboGKIb2N0000Ib00000ib0000Ib00000ib00000 f). Brave/Wise Stance themselves don't give a huge boost when maxed (5%), but Brave/Wise UP give a lot (10-20%), so don't skimp on either.

Crits are just garbage. If you look around a bit on any explanation about Dex (Ability/Skill whatever) or critical hits, you'll know why. The short answer is: They are not a multiplier. They cannot go above 1x regular damage. Full stop.

If you absolutely have to have extra S-Atk, you try this (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03dDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbW7Ylbk IqoqKcB5dInik00008ebrbGBcBGFIb2N0000Ib00000ib0000I b00000ib00000f).

Yeah, after reading this I went and did a little digging on crits and you're right. I remember people despising those abilities from the front, but back then, they were also praising really stupid things so it was to be taken with a grain of salt. Thanks a lot, I'll definitely be using this information.

SociableTyrannosaur
Feb 28, 2013, 06:39 PM
based on everything we've discussed, I'd sooner go with something like this. (http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.html?03dDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbW7Ylbk IqoqKcBGDIscA00000ebrbGBcBGFIb2N0000Ib00000ib0000I b00000ib00000f)

S atk to burn while not losing anything important.

If I were you, I'd save boosting S atk for last. wait til you get that nice new piece of equipment before you throw your SP at it, because something better and easier to equip may have come out by then.

Jinki
Mar 1, 2013, 08:52 PM
I can't find any complaints to that build or advice on S-ATK at all. The naturalist in me wants to point out the lack of boosting Fury Stance with the Fury S Up 1 and 2, but based on what we've been talking about, they don't seem to worthwhile when compared to other things so I'll just have to stop considering the building in this game to be even remotely normal, compared to most any other game out there with skill trees.

I think what I'll do, is not worry so much about upgrading my Mag quickly but focus more on using it for stat points (when I need them), hopefully picking up all my lack of stats from it instead of having to spend on them in the skill tree. I'd say a late blooming Mag that fits me perfectly is far better than a half-assed mag done for the sake of having a useful Mag created quickly.

You've been a huge help and I really, really appreciate it.