Fo sucks at boss killing

[Shadowth117]

Also known as I went and made a no damage boss rush video, but for forces. Fo is commonly said to have no place killing bosses and indeed its not the best, but I'd like to show that its not bad at this by any means. Please note that in this video I use the Fo dodge as little as possible and overall prioritize killing the bosses fast while avoiding damage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj7iFsjiHhg

My approximate builds (game is offline, but I remember most of it) can be found here for anyone interested for whatever reason.
[spoiler-box]
Fire Tree
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03hDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkjcP9bIn0 00000febHoGBIbGKIb0000ib00000ib0000GOIk2X2Xln0000I b00000f

Lightning Tree
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03hDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkjcP9bIn0 00000febHoGBIbGKIb0000ib00000ib0000kbI22S6cAcAcK00 07b00000f
[/spoiler-box]

inb4FOischeap,EZmode,etcetc

Edit: Fixed the tree links -_-'

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Fo is commonly said to have no place killing bosses
I never heard this.
All I heard was they're more suited towards wrecking mobs

And that they aren't as good as RA/GUs at bosses

[Shadowth117]

I never heard this.
All I heard was they're more suited towards wrecking mobs

And that they aren't as good as RA/GUs at bosses

I guess it can depend on who you're talking to. I at least know a number of people that would say overall Hu and Fi are far better for this and there's a lot of support to back it up on NicoNico.

[blace]

I have had people prefer me using my TE/FO for bosses and my other two characters for other work.

[TehblackUchiha]

lol khbbs music the funny thing is im playing final mix right now. As for the claim that forces suck at boss soloing that doesn't even make sense. They straight up out damage the other classes and have the luxury of sitting back and casting spells not anywhere near the enemy. The fact that your video is shorter than everyone else's proves the statement is false. My video is also on the way tommorow :D

[Shadowth117]

lol khbbs music the funny thing is im playing final mix right now. As for the claim that forces suck at boss soloing that doesn't even make sense. They straight up out damage the other classes and have the luxury of sitting back and casting spells not anywhere near the enemy. The fact that your video is shorter than everyone else's proves the statement is false. My video is also on the way tommorow :D

Yeah man. I actually took music from KH1, 2 and BBS although BBS and KH2 have share a few tracks with different instrument setups. Figured I'd go for a theme with that. It'll be cool to see more people post videos I think.

[Crysteon]

Y U NO wield a keyblade!?!?!?!?!

[Railkune]

Very nice. I've never been in a party with a Fo besides when fight Arms/Elder. Nice music choices for each boss too. Been a while since I last heard KH tracks.

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

I dont know how my consistent 2500-6000 damage zonde hits is bad for bosses, I tended to solo bosses on my force and my techer with out ever getting hit. Sooooo yea, i actually dont know any bad forces.

[Shadowth117]

@Crys: If they let me I totally would. Reflega is amazing.

@Rail: Thanks! Yeah, I've always been a fan of those and figured that might be a fitting place to use them.

@Shakuri: Well... it was a while ago. I knew pretty much nothing about fighter at the time (I'm still pretty bad at it when I'm not using an Umbra Stick.), but it was more me wanting to know what it was. There wasn't much info on it when I got it. Honestly, I never expected to use the class seriously for anything until I learned how crazy brave stance was with force.

[Seraphus]

Why do you have Twin Dagger Gear

And what is so wrong with this gear? It the only thing that makes using the weapon more worthwhile. If you don't have reversal on your FI tree then you can easily get the optimum tree for FI with all gears. Sometimes it's boring to use the same weapon forever so other gears help.

I'm not sure where you've heard and seen that FO's suck at killing bosses but that shouldn't be the case in any person's view. It is just undeniable that HU/FI's require way more effort to pull off any comparable DPS.

And with TE as a sub with PP convert, you could possibly even have better results than FO/FI.

[Lumpen Thingy]

hmmm funny. I never knew you were neobackpack lol

[Zenobia]

LOL good run and all but whoever said FO sucked at killing bosses if anyhing they wreck em.

Sigh ofc you are not gonna take any damage hence why HU like me and sky did what we did ,but meeh LOL.


You did nothign but back peddel and pretty much that in itself if enough of a reason there HU dun have that option wish HU could back peddle and not have be upclose.

[Dextro]

That song really fits with Vardha! xD
the agrabah theme when gwana popped up made me laugh too lol :D

Nice job on the video, it really shows why Lightning techs are beyond amazing right now 8-)
Personally, I think the only bosses that FO isn't that great at soloing is Vol and Quartz.

[Shadowth117]

I should probably say that the title is meant to be a bit sarcastic, but its something I've certainly heard before.

@Seraphus: It really depends for Te and Fi as subs. Fi sub often takes more planning with attacks and positioning whereas Te allows you to be spammy which I have to say is very fun and useful in a lot of missions.

@Lumpen: Really? I guess I never outright said it haha. What's your ingame out of curiosity?

@Zenobia: I avoided damage for the same reason you guys did. I know I didn't have to be quite as close as a Fo, but I avoided using any dodge techniques at all as well for most of the battles. I'm aware of how it can be very easy to dodge with mirage escape, but I tried not to use it whenever I felt it was possible.

@Dextro: Thanks! I thought the music was pretty fitting overall there. And yeah, with the lightning styled skill tree, those techs can be very amazing right now.

[Inazuma]

It's normal for forces to not get hit during boss fights. I don't see any point in making a video like this. And especially for FO/FI, the strongest class. There aren't even that many attacks to dodge if you kill the bosses so damn fast.

I'm not saying you suck at the game, compared to HU/FI players. I think it's smart of you to play as the strongest class. Why choose to be weak when you can choose to be strong? It's just that this sort of thing isn't special at all.

[Zenobia]

I should probably say that the title is meant to be a bit sarcastic, but its something I've certainly heard before.

@Seraphus: It really depends for Te and Fi as subs. Fi sub often takes more planning with attacks and positioning whereas Te allows you to be spammy which I have to say is very fun and useful in a lot of missions.

@Lumpen: Really? I guess I never outright said it haha. What's your ingame out of curiosity?

@Zenobia: I avoided damage for the same reason you guys did. I know I didn't have to be quite as close as a Fo, but I avoided using any dodge techniques at all as well for most of the battles. I'm aware of how it can be very easy to dodge with mirage escape, but I tried not to use it whenever I felt it was possible.

@Dextro: Thanks! I thought the music was pretty fitting overall there. And yeah, with the lightning styled skill tree, those techs can be very amazing right now.

The point being you killied them before they had any chance to shift into aggressive mode HENCE there was no difficulty added WE ALL know once you bring a boss to a certain amount of hp they go big time aggressive you killed them way before that LMFAO so basically there was no difficulty added.

Once again this is not to criticize but you killed em all before they could even use any aggressive moves.

Its good for showing that FO are indeed NUKERS gawd we all know they are but as far as not getting hit that is pretty darn easy WHY? Well look at ur vid again i said you killed them before they could even go aggressive.....

@Midori yeah sega sucks at fucking balancing they gimped us kinda bad but we can still hang in there HU/FI pride all dey way.

[Shadowth117]

The point being you killied them before they had any chance to shift into aggressive mode HENCE there was no difficulty added WE ALL know once you bring a boss to a certain amount of hp they go big time aggressive you killed them way before that LMFAO so basically there was no difficulty added.

PS. You used mirage dash in that banther vid for idk what reason so that part about you not using it you failed on that promise once again this is not to criticize but you killed em all before they could even use any non aggressive moves.

Its good for showing that FO are indeed NUKERS gawd we all know they are but as far as not getting hit that is pretty darn easy WHY? Well look at ur vid again i said you killed them before they could even go aggresive.....

@Midori yeah sega sucks at fucking balancing they gimped us kinda bad but we can still hang in there HU/FI pride all dey way.

Oooh I see what you're saying with my dodge there. Yeah actually you're right. If I'd moved to the right I would have been able to dodge that without mirage escape more than likely. I moved to the left to stay more straight on to him I think, but you do have a point with that.

As for Fo being nukers... it really depends on what you use. But with the best gear and such on any class you can be pretty ridiculous. And the price for it on Fo is that if you do get hit, especially in my case with falz set and all, you almost always get one hit from more powerful enemies. You can say what you want about dodging, but even the very best players there are are going to get hit on occasion. I will say for sure that I think melee classes could use a good buff and Sega seems to agree looking at what they're doing for hunter's skills.

@Midori: If you take the bosses slow and you don't avoid using Fo dodge like I did for the video, than yes they are very easy. Doing the boss battles quite that fast isn't something that happens every run for most bosses. Of course, you could also argue the enemies in general in this game are very easy. Maybe its not that special of a thing, but technically neither is soloing under any other circumstances by that logic, including skillfully as a melee class. If you don't like watching these kinds of things its really your preference.

[Midori Oku]

Some people seem really upset. lol

[Zenobia]

@Shaku Did you even read i said she killed them way before they could go aggressive nullifying the difficulty better look at the Renvalt challenges to get a better idea cause you sir are talking hogwash at this point my point is that she had no reason to much of anything just tech the bosses to death.

@Shadow what im saying is is if you're killing them that fast then there is no need for mirage dash cause you're killing them THAT FAST lol~.

[BlueCast Boy]

How about FO/FI? I think they can be a great boss fight when using the stances.

[Seraphus]

Everything.

Oh yes, doing more damage on a weapon is what's wrong. Why do I even bother here?

/Ignore thread mode.

[Zenobia]

How about FO/FI? I think they can be a great bosses when using the stances.

Yeah FO/FI is OP as fuck i have an FO and i use that LOL dat damage~

[Midori Oku]

40 minute video huh? Strangely enough it sounds like Amaury. Do you by chance happen to act like an NPC?

[Zenobia]

Maintenance.



youre mad op didnt take 40 minutes just say iiiiiiit

Nu uh~ but Baddie Shaku can't do ettt step up to deh plate homie put up or shut up<3

Or grovel in your own weakness pick your poison<3

[Zenobia]

40 minute video huh? Strangely enough it sounds like Amaury. Do you by chance happen to act like an NPC?

Nope go look at the vid notice i said i did everything without using JG made it 10x harder not to get hit which is legit this script kiddie here obv isnt a HU/FI.

[Dextro]

I think some of you are exaggerating how easy it is to play FO...

Anyone can take their time just mirage escaping every single attack, waiting for pp and resuming the nuke-fest. But to take bosses down quickly as you can on FO, you have to know attack patterns and spacing just as well as any HU does.

Look at how he dodged in and out of everything while on top of Vardha; he didn't use Mirage and instead was jumping over arm swings while dodging cannon fire from left, right and center. All this while continuing to cast non-stop.
Honestly, try doing this yourself and you'll see how good you actually have to be!

Being FO isn't just a magic ticket to killing everything quicker than a HU without ever taking damage. ^^;

I'm sure anyone here can do a no-damage run as FO, no doubt.
But if you think simply going FO/FI gets you those kinds of numbers that let you 'skip the aggressive part' then you're dead wrong!
I can tell just by eyeballing the numbers that his gear is top notch, coupled with a pure element skilltree.

Neo honestly deserves more credit for this than he's getting lol. I guess it takes a FO to see it.
It's all praise in the HU thread, but nothing but negativity in the FO thread :-P
We need some MOAR WIZARDS in here! :lightning:

[Zenobia]

I think some of you are exaggerating how easy it is to play FO...

Anyone can take their time just mirage escaping every single attack, waiting for pp and resuming the nuke-fest. But to take bosses down quickly as you can on FO, you have to know attack patterns and spacing just as well as any HU does.

Look at how he dodged in and out of everything while on top of Vardha; he didn't use Mirage and instead was jumping over arm swings while dodging cannon fire from left, right and center. All this while continuing to cast non-stop.
Honestly, try doing this yourself and you'll see how good you actually have to be!

Being FO isn't just a magic ticket to killing everything quicker than a HU without ever taking damage. ^^;

I'm sure anyone here can do a no-damage run as FO, no doubt.
But if you think simply going FO/FI gets you those kinds of numbers that let you 'skip the aggressive part' then you're dead wrong!
I can tell just by eyeballing the numbers that his gear is top notch, coupled with a pure element skilltree.

Neo honestly deserves more credit for this than he's getting lol. I guess it takes a FO to see it.
It's all praise in the HU thread, but nothing but negativity in the FO thread :-P
We need some MOAR WIZARDS in here! :lightning:


Dude idk about you but all i can say is this FO/FI OP need more of a reff go hollah at Minerva most OPED Newman i know LOL.

[Shakuri]

Easymodo

i can do it in 10 mins te/gu no damage no weapons no armor am jp nicoplayer ur youtube pleb get on mah level~

Edit: awww fuck 777. no more fun

[NoiseHERO]

i can do it in 10 mins te/gu no damage no weapons no armor am jp nicoplayer ur youtube pleb get on mah level~

I seen her do it.

TWICE

She was like

"I'M BETTER THAN YOU!"

"Ayo son... get out mah face."

[Zenobia]

i can do it in 10 mins te/gu no damage no weapons no armor am jp nicoplayer ur youtube pleb get on mah level~

Do ett and also DONT USE DODGE OR CT OR CF~

Do that and ill def respect ya~

Way past your lvl homie sense i alrdy did it you slacking~

[NoiseHERO]

Do ett and also DONT USE DODGE OR CT OR CF~

Do that and ill def respect ya~

Way past your lvl homie sense i alrdy did it you slacking~

I've never seen a whack player, how do you play? Frontin' like you hard, until you run away!

[Zenobia]

I've never seen a whack player, how do you play? Frontin' like you hard, until you run away!

OMG NO EASTWOOD IM SRY I PWOMISE I WILL GIVE YOU THAT MONIE IS OWE CHU~

Flees~ Eastwood why chu so scawwy Q.Q

[Cyclon]

Good job, impressive run:)

[Crimson Exile]

Best Fo NA. Don't think Midori will ever catch up now :/

[Z-0]

idk about you

but speed runs are way more impressive than silly "no damage runs" (I mean it's not even hard on melee)

[Crimson Exile]

idk about you

but speed runs are way more impressive than silly "no damage runs" (I mean it's not even hard on melee)
Best Fi EU. I don't think I will ever catch up :/

[Zenobia]

idk about you

but speed runs are way more impressive than silly "no damage runs" (I mean it's not even hard on melee)

Faster time? All ya need is bad azz gear anyone can do this hardly impressive but its inspirational as well.

Taking no damage fighting bosses? Skill bro skill and that takes patience

[Jay6]

Quite some good runs there! Learned a couple things from watching them. I guess I know to use Sazonde a bit more; especially on Tranmizer's back, and Wolgahda's eye. Though, I still tend to use grants to a banther's face instead if I'm killing it quickly (I'm not that great at aiming my sazonde if it keeps jumping everywhere).

[Soultrigger]

I think some of you are exaggerating how easy it is to play FO...

I don't think people understand the concept of different learning curves.
Hunter and Fighter has a high entry barrier/steep learning curve, but once you "get" it, it's essentially autopilot from there.

Forces and Techers are the opposite: they're very easy to get into but difficult to master. Being a good Force means knowing the best approach for any given situation, which gets downplayed a lot because people are too fixated on reaction and execution. The same applies to Ranger and to an extent Gunner: to accomplish some of their noteworthy feats (particularly solo), you have to know how to manage your offensive resources and make your burst damage count as much as possible.


idk about you

but speed runs are way more impressive than silly "no damage runs" (I mean it's not even hard on melee)

I refrained from downplaying people's achievements to not look like a condescending elitist prick, but it's evident that some people are full of themselves from the way they resort to downplaying other people's accomplishments to make theirs seem noteworthy. (read: I agree with you)

[Ce'Nedra]

That Vardha fight was pretty awesome.

This vid certainly get's me more intrested in casting FO. I'd need to level mine more cause its only at lv31 or so but seeing what it can do like this surely caught my intrest.

[Bellion]

That was very good. The only boss in my opinion that FO can't take down well is Vol Dragon because it is resistant to everything except Ice and Dark. Also, my lack of a lightning tree doesn't really help. I'll be able to get one when they give those skill tree reset tickets out.

Again, good job. That Vardha run was impressive. Also, your fire and lightning skill tree have extra points in ice.

[gigawuts]

I eagerly await Renvalt's thoughts on this topic.

[Coatl]

Wow, respect. You wrecked every single boss without miraging most of the boss attacks. It's true that FOs aren't as easy to master as they seem. Unlike melee, they sacrifice a lot of time and dps just to dodge out of an attack, so mirage escape rarely gets used as often as hunters dodge.

by the way, your fire skill tree and lightning skill tree are exactly the same build. Just figured I'd let you know so you can fix it. Why did you put points into ice in either tree? o.o Also what's with using Sazonde on banther?

EDIT: Also, I want to know what tracks were played in the boss fights. ^^

[Midori Oku]

Best Fo NA. Don't think Midori will ever catch up now :/

Which Midori are you talking about? I believe you're talking about me, but I just want to make sure. lol

[Cyclon]

Hunter and Fighter has a high entry barrier/steep learning curve, but once you "get" it, it's essentially autopilot from there?
Not dismissing how it takes effort to master force and rangergunner, and also no intention to change this thread into another debate on the subject; just saying, that part simply is not true.

Edit:

Unlike melee, they sacrifice a lot of time and dps just to dodge out of an attack, so mirage escape rarely gets used as often as hunters dodge.
Jump+dodge at the same time, or in very quick succession. Problem settled.

[Shadowth117]

Wow, respect. You wrecked every single boss without miraging most of the boss attacks. It's true that FOs aren't as easy to master as they seem. Unlike melee, they sacrifice a lot of time and dps just to dodge out of an attack, so mirage escape rarely gets used as often as hunters dodge.

by the way, your fire skill tree and lightning skill tree are exactly the same build. Just figured I'd let you know so you can fix it. Why did you put points into ice in either tree? o.o Also what's with using Sazonde on banther?

EDIT: Also, I want to know what tracks were played in the boss fights. ^^

Er.... crap didn't realize I linked those wrong. I haven't used that skill tree editor much... -_-' And I know you mentioned the extra stuff in ice, that was unintentional as well actually... but yeah! Fixed now. Lightning build should have had nothing in ice and fire build had a single point in it just for the 5% bonus.

Sazonde on banther was more of a joke at first since I didn't think it would work amazingly, but as it turns out its very, very good against them. Particularly in open areas where their head is constantly revealed (in Nab2 they love to stick their heads in the wall >.>). Thing is, sazonde does quite a bit of damage on a single target and is able to be directed at a spot. Current zonde can never hit their face for max damage unless they are roaring.

I added the song list to the video description by the way :)

@Bellion: Yeah. Its kind of silly because zonde actually out-damages rabarta and unsurprisingly dark techs as well on him with the right build. Quartz could have been taken down faster though if I had gotten luckier with poison :/ And thanks for the skill tree issue.

@Jay6: There's actually a few times where I miss my shot on sazonde in the video. -_-' Anyways, the main thing with it is to use it when you know it can hit. I guess it sort of takes some learning to figure how long it takes to travel, but when they're standing still or moving slowly it usually goes where you want regardless.

@Zenophobia and Zyn: I really do have to say, TA runs in general definitely do take more skill in my opinion. Its more than "bad azz" gear and generally involves a lot of time and effort in order to optimize one's plan for a run to anywhere decent. That said, there aren't many TA runs in the game and certainly not a large variety of them so its hard to show this.



And overall, thanks for the support people. I'm glad you guys enjoyed it :)

[Zenobia]

Er.... crap didn't realize I linked those wrong. I haven't used that skill tree editor much... -_-' And I know you mentioned the extra stuff in ice, that was unintentional as well actually... but yeah! Fixed now. Lightning build should have had nothing in ice and fire build had a single point in it just for the 5% bonus.

Sazonde on banther was more of a joke at first since I didn't think it would work amazingly, but as it turns out its very, very good against them. Particularly in open areas where their head is constantly revealed (in Nab2 they love to stick their heads in the wall >.>). Thing is, sazonde does quite a bit of damage on a single target and is able to be directed at a spot. Current zonde can never hit their face for max damage unless they are roaring.

I added the song list to the video description by the way :)

@Bellion: Yeah. Its kind of silly because zonde actually out-damages rabarta and unsurprisingly dark techs as well on him with the right build. Quartz could have been taken down faster though if I had gotten luckier with poison :/ And thanks for the skill tree issue.

@Jay6: There's actually a few times where I miss my shot on sazonde in the video. -_-' Anyways, the main thing with it is to use it when you know it can hit. I guess it sort of takes some learning to figure how long it takes to travel, but when they're standing still or moving slowly it usually goes where you want regardless.

@Zenophobia and Zyn: I really do have to say, TA runs in general definitely do take more skill in my opinion. Its more than "bad azz" gear and generally involves a lot of time and effort in order to optimize one's plan for a run to anywhere decent. That said, there aren't many TA runs in the game and certainly not a large variety of them so its hard to show this.



And overall, thanks for the support people. I'm glad you guys enjoyed it :)

True true Shadowderp,but my point was that sega just sucks at balancing period knwing that FO is clrly best overall in damage and FO can solo practically any boss flawlessly without rly needing to mirage dash as the techs pretty nullify even needing to do that.

All in all though good runs to say the least even though the vid itself is pretty obv what my point was...

[Gen2000]

Hm, I thought the impression was always Casters kick ass, just with mob killing you don't even have to look at the screen half time vs. some slight focus come boss time but never that they were bad at it. Guess like you say though it's who you talked too, whatever the reason glad it prompt you to make a vid response to it. It's a good quick reference collection (minus Hunar and Falz but they're missing for obvious reasons I guess).

I am now stealing the Sazonde on kitty couple. Never cross my mind to use it on them. That was cool.

[gigawuts]

Lots of people say FO is worse than HU at boss killing.

Lots of people who only play one of those classes, if they play either at all.

And usually aren't even in VH yet.

[Crysteon]

idk about you

but speed runs are way more impressive than silly "no damage runs" (I mean it's not even hard on melee)

I do agree with this statement, since I've experienced it myself in runs where I get hit and still get a better time than a run where nothing touches me. Of course, having both things in the same run would be awesome.

[Coatl]

As long as you don't flinch or die from damage I don't see a reason to avoid it like the plague.

[KaffeKane]

I dont know how my consistent 2500-6000 damage zonde hits is bad for bosses, I tended to solo bosses on my force and my techer with out ever getting hit. Sooooo yea, i actually dont know any bad forces.

Me. MU-ahahahahahahahaaaa!

[Crimson Exile]

Which Midori are you talking about? I believe you're talking about me, but I just want to make sure. lol
Lol I am talking about you xD

[Midori Oku]

Lol I am talking about you xD

I figured as much. There are quite a few reasons as to why I won't "catch up" to Shadow, or anyone else for the matter.

First, school is starting to eat up more and more of my time, and I may have a full time job within the next week. At least I hope so anyways. Second, PSO2 just isn't my cup of tea. The game is fun (I'll give it that much), but it's not an equivalent of PSU to me. Third, my gaming time is better spent playing games that I've had throughout my time in PSU, but never really got around to playing. I will also have stuff to do in the offline of PSU. Mods and such! :3

I had my time in PSU as what so many people called the "#1 Masterforce" in PSU. I think Shadow more than deserves that #1 Force title in PSO2. Although, there is really no way to determine a "best" in a game such as this. It's more of an opinion of the community. That's my two cents on the subject.

Edit: With a title such as that comes lots of followers, and lots of haters. Self proclaimed #1 will get you more haters than anything though. People who played 360 PSU will know exactly who I'm talking about. lol

[Skyly HUmar]

Well shadow. Im gonna give you some props on your run, but why I wanted to keep it a melee only challenge is because range and mage classes just have so much more safety by keeping away and being able to hit their hardest by being far, and with 95% of the attacks in the game that you can be hit by being striking, it only adds to that advantage. Its just not as hard to avoid being hit as a force or a ra than it is to be hit as a hunter. BUT you did do really good and it was a great vid, thumbs up.

And yes, doing a run faster will usually get you hit once o twice, but the reason I find no damage as a melee to be a bigger feat is because you are constantly targeted and you constantly have to be avoiding damage. But anoyher big reason why i find no damage to be better, is because of how bosses behave. Somethimes vol will charge 9over and over and over, somethimes he will roar and jump over and over and over which leaves him wide open to alot of attacks that you usually wouldn't be able to do. Not that it's unimpressive to kill stuff quickly, but its simply not as hard to do that than to not take hits when you are a class that has to avoid being hit every other second. No disrespect to anyone that thinks otherwise, thats just my 2 cents on the matter.

[Zenobia]

Which Midori are you talking about? I believe you're talking about me, but I just want to make sure. lol

Actually there is another Midori the jp player whom i know lvl55/55 known sense the pso and psobb days then there is you so i only know 2 midori's now lol.

[Midori Oku]

Actually there is another Midori the jp player whom i know lvl55/55 known sense the pso and psobb days then there is you so i only know 2 midori's now lol.

I'm well aware of that. It's the reason why I asked "which Midori". Meaning me, or Inazuma.

[Crimson Exile]

I figured as much. There are quite a few reasons as to why I won't "catch up" to Shadow, or anyone else for the matter.

First, school is starting to eat up more and more of my time, and I may have a full time job within the next week. At least I hope so anyways. Second, PSO2 just isn't my cup of tea. The game is fun (I'll give it that much), but it's not an equivalent of PSU to me. Third, my gaming time is better spent playing games that I've had throughout my time in PSU, but never really got around to playing. I will also have stuff to do in the offline of PSU. Mods and such! :3

I had my time in PSU as what so many people called the "#1 Masterforce" in PSU. I think Shadow more than deserves that #1 Force title in PSO2. Although, there is really no way to determine a "best" in a game such as this. It's more of an opinion of the community. That's my two cents on the subject.

Edit: With a title such as that comes lots of followers, and lots of haters. Self proclaimed #1 will get you more haters than anything though. People who played 360 PSU will know exactly who I'm talking about. lol
Good luck with the job! I hope offline playing means more PSU vids from you. Whats the lvl cap on offline mode?

[Midori Oku]

Good luck with the job! I hope offline playing means more PSU vids from you. Whats the lvl cap on offline mode?

Thank you. It's level 200, and yes, there will be lots of PSU videos from me, especially once the full offline mod is finished. For now I'm running around with what we already have, and "hacked" (for lack of a better word) weapons. lol

Edit: I've already uploaded 2 AOTI offline videos. I don't know if you have seen them or not.

[Crimson Exile]

Thank you. It's level 200, and yes, there will be lots of PSU videos from me, especially once the full offline mod is finished. For now I'm running around with what we already have, and "hacked" (for lack of a better word) weapons. lol

Edit: I've already uploaded 2 AOTI offline videos. I don't know if you have seen them or not.
Woah how far does the masterforce weapons go up to? (rutsularod?)
And is this console or PC version we are talking about?

[Midori Oku]

Woah how far does the masterforce weapons go up to? (rutsularod?)
And is this console or PC version we are talking about?

It's on the offline on PC,

This should answer your first question. Anyone who has played the offline on PC should notice quite a few things in the video that are not right. lol

Edit: Lets not derail this any more than it already is. Just PM me if you have any questions or whatever.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy9NXbRgGK0

[Shadowth117]

I think Shadow more than deserves that #1 Force title in PSO2. Although, there is really no way to determine a "best" in a game such as this. It's more of an opinion of the community. That's my two cents on the subject.


I think ADAPTER, quartet, and a number of others may have some arguments there, heh. I've definitely got some work to do honestly. I really want to be able to record some good times on the TA missions honestly, but I need to level techer before I can seriously TA Nab2 (Territory Burst ... :etongue:) and honestly I need to get some good strategies together and executed in the others. It would be cool to be known for being a decent Fo player though.

[~Aya~]

A true FO looks out for their group and mpa by focusing on support buffing/healing first and then crowd control/damage! Huehuehuehue.. but really.. please FO people out there.. play the class for your group instead of yourself. ♥♥♥

[Z-0]

When I play with other FOs, I prefer them nuking the shit out of things because it's better than making me do 300 more damage.

[gigawuts]

A good FO does both at once.

[Skyly HUmar]

I prefer to play wih Dex, since he kills everything before i even get close to them, i can just get away with not doing any work till a boss shows up *kicks back in cross burst*

[~Aya~]

When I play with other FOs, I prefer them nuking the shit out of things because it's better than making me do 300 more damage.

You're saying that as if you can't take a second to charge 2 spells and cast them before an encounter or as one starts. I'm not saying to drop all damage and hold hands. I have ran with plenty of FO who only care to zonde snipe all day and leave the rest of the group to die or be buffless.

300 more dmg? Maybe if you are Fo/Fi. I am Fo/Te... I am fully merited into support spells for stronger shifta/deband/resta.

[Midori Oku]

A true FO looks out for their group and mpa by focusing on support buffing/healing first and then crowd control/damage! Huehuehuehue.. but really.. please FO people out there.. play the class for your group instead of yourself. ♥♥♥

Yup, totally! Because you need to do that in a good party. >__________>

[Skyly HUmar]

Thats a good mindset to have in pso1, an its thoughtful, but in this game thats just not efficient unless you are in a small group about to fight a boss, and if thats the case its only good right before you warp.

[gigawuts]

Enemies that die in 1 hit still die in 1 hit

enemies that die in 2 hits usually don't suddenly die in 1 hit because of shifta

[Shadowth117]

A true FO looks out for their group and mpa by focusing on support buffing/healing first and then crowd control/damage! Huehuehuehue.. but really.. please FO people out there.. play the class for your group instead of yourself. ♥♥♥

You're welcome to your opinions, but if you look at Force's skill tree you'll see a notable lack of support based skill. We have Shifta, Deband, Anti, (Zondeel?), and Resta, but the range is small. Acrotecher in PSU was one thing with buffs that lasted 5 minutes and range that is probably twice or more than the size of the equivalents here with stat increases that were similarly larger, but I don't believe its very convenient or even worthwhile generally to play that way in PSO2 personally. To add to that, debuff techniques do not even exist in this game :/

Even with Techer, which has a number of support skills, the game doesn't work especially well with this style of play. Shifta and Shifta Critical don't add enough that I would personally consider them very worthwhile and the same applies to the Deband side. Territory Burst is great and all, but it still doesn't reach what buffs were in PSU and doesn't solve the 1 minute max problem with buffs here. To be honest, Rangers make for arguably a better support class because of weak bullet and jellen bullet.

I'm not saying you can't have fun playing that way. I'm just saying I don't find that style of play fun and in this particular game there's not an especially good reason for tanks and healers so far in my opinion. :/

[The Walrus]

Moar like shitta :D :D :D :D :D


*goes back to his corner*

[Shadowth117]

Shifta actually is pretty useful at times actually. There are a number of enemies I've found, particularly in TA that I can one hit after I shifta. Just attacking with it is pretty awesome at times. Its just that Shifta Advance and Shifta Critical don't do much for it :/

[Midori Oku]

Acrotecher in PSU was one thing with buffs that lasted 5 minutes and range that is probably twice or more than the size of the equivalents here with stat increases that were similarly larger, but I don't believe its very convenient or even worthwhile generally to play that way in PSO2 personally. To add to that, debuff techniques do not even exist in this game :/

Shadow, shame on you. You should know that level 41+ buffs lasted for 6min, and the range of them had to be 4 or 5 times larger (possibly more) than in PSO2. Healing someone from one side of the room to the other with Resta was absolutely amazing! Well, unless you were on 360 using Revenge Blaster. Oh boy, did Acrotecchers (who did not know what they were doing) get kicked out of parties back in the day! :3

[Zenobia]

You're welcome to your opinions, but if you look at Force's skill tree you'll see a notable lack of support based skill. We have Shifta, Deband, Anti, (Zondeel?), and Resta, but the range is small. Acrotecher in PSU was one thing with buffs that lasted 5 minutes and range that is probably twice or more than the size of the equivalents here with stat increases that were similarly larger, but I don't believe its very convenient or even worthwhile generally to play that way in PSO2 personally. To add to that, debuff techniques do not even exist in this game :/

Even with Techer, which has a number of support skills, the game doesn't work especially well with this style of play. Shifta and Shifta Critical don't add enough that I would personally consider them very worthwhile and the same applies to the Deband side. Territory Burst is great and all, but it still doesn't reach what buffs were in PSU and doesn't solve the 1 minute max problem with buffs here. To be honest, Rangers make for arguably a better support class because of weak bullet and jellen bullet.

I'm not saying you can't have fun playing that way. I'm just saying I don't find that style of play fun and in this particular game there's not an especially good reason for tanks and healers so far in my opinion. :/

She did say FIRST BUFF AND HEAL THEN CROWD CONTROL!! not just strictly heal and support.

Ive played with Aya and if i had to say anything she has a nice rotation between healing and buffing and crowd control and she executes these flawlessly in AQ my survival rate at which i would be knicked down to the red in my hp has been less playing with her.

Other FO's probably wouldn't even bother to heal the ones who actually have to stick there necks out there to keep the enemies at bay HU's *Cough* HU's while you guys nuke from afar and ive seen to many like this its the reason now i don't depend on heals and just heal myself IF i get knocked into the red.

It's an opinion sure but a helpful one.

[Midori Oku]

Other FO's probably wouldn't even bother to heal the ones who actually have to stick there necks out there to keep the enemies at bay HU's *Cough* HU's while you guys nuke from afar and ive seen to many like this its the reason now i don't depend on heals and just heal myself IF i get knocked into the red.

You think it's bad now? Wait until PSO2 gets its class equivalent to Masterforce. It's going to happen sooner or later.

[~Aya~]

Appreciate everyone's thoughts and feedback. I was being playful about my first post though. I stand by the way that I play my fo and will continue to do so :-D. Yuri ♥♥.. thank you.. Love ship 2, man.


Do what is most fun for you...

[UnLucky]

As a purely offensive spec Fo/Fi, the biggest rush I can get in any battle is when I can say "I totally just saved their life"

Like sure, I don't even care about the cost of Moons (and I'm often the first/only one to fire one off), but seeing someone being juggled with a Resta tick between hits that would have killed them is really satisfying. Maybe not as satisfying as melting entire rooms, but it's up there, and I can just do both.

Besides, when I'm partying I tend to target far off mobs nobody is running to, or I Shifta/Gifoie nearby stuff and catch some melee peeps. I can get a bit reckless trying to keep Wise Stance on at all times, but I find it more engaging that way, especially in boss fights.

[Zenobia]

You think it's bad now? Wait until PSO2 gets its class equivalent to Masterforce. It's going to happen sooner or later.

Oh lawdeh and i totally agree wiv you that train gonna be ridden to the depths of helll.

[Zeota]

That was certainly fun to watch. Nice choice of music too.

[Courina]

pretty sure everyone who know me know that im the worst FO/TE... heh heh heh (im even doubt is anyone from my friendlist actually use my npc...)

lv 45/50 Fo/Te max damage if hit weakness only 3k, and that was critical too... miserable isnt it?

[Shadowth117]

pretty sure everyone who know me know that im the worst FO/TE... heh heh heh (im even doubt is anyone from my friendlist actually use my npc...)

lv 45/50 Fo/Te max damage if hit weakness only 3k, and that was critical too... miserable isnt it?

Skill tree and equipment mean quite a lot.

[Rien]

Who dafuq told you they have no place at bosses, it's the second strongest.

anyways, final fantasy musics everywhere >.>

[Zenobia]

Who dafuq told you they have no place at bosses, it's the second strongest.

anyways, final fantasy musics everywhere >.>

NEEDS MORE LAST REMNANT AND XENOSAGA >8D

[Rien]

To make things worse her output is higher than the hu/fi videos.

[Zenobia]

To make things worse her output is higher than the hu/fi videos.

its not worse once again we know FO regardless of what class they sub is arguably better than any other we alrdy stated this plenty of times.

Mow if the vid somehow makes you want to main FO then that is pretty obv as there are many who have done this because they couldn't handle HU to begin with.

[Skyly HUmar]

its not worse once again we know FO regardless of what class they sub is arguably better than any other we alrdy stated this plenty of times.

Mow if the vid somehow makes you want to main FO then that is pretty obv as there are many who have done this because they couldn't handle HU to begin with.

I wouldnt call that 100% true, I know some great HUs that main fo just cuz its so much better. But yeah, whoever thinks FOs suck at bosses probably hasnt gotten into the late game yet.

[Shadowth117]

its not worse once again we know FO regardless of what class they sub is arguably better than any other we alrdy stated this plenty of times.

Mow if the vid somehow makes you want to main FO then that is pretty obv as there are many who have done this because they couldn't handle HU to begin with.

To be fair, its more you that has restated that claim a number of times.

Well if you take a look at this video of a FI/HU killing quartz:
http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19895823

And this video of a FI/HU killing Vol:
http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19746890

You'll see there some great instances where FI is easily able to outshine FO in speed.

And if you want one of the best examples, look here:
http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19655906

That kind of damage is just ridiculous and it was before the 55 cap which is even more impressive.

Edit: I'm just pointing out what the Japanese players have been able to do as Fi since some people seem to believe it to be a less powerful class than it is.

[Skyly HUmar]

To be fair, its more you that has restated that claim a number of times.

Well if you take a look at this video of a FI/HU killing quartz:
http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19895823

And this video of a FI/HU killing Vol:
http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19746890

You'll see there some great instances where FI is easily able to outshine FO in speed.

And if you want one of the best examples, look here:
http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19655906

That kind of damage is just ridiculous and it was before the 55 cap which is even more impressive.

Edit: I'm just pointing out what the Japanese players have been able to do as Fi since some people seem to believe it to be a less powerful class than it is.

Thats not it at all, We know melee is powerful, hence why we still use it. Were just pointing out the fact that FO is more effecient and other than a couple bosses that have good tech resistance it will usually out DPS any melee just because it doesnt have to worry about avoiding attacks anywhere near as often and they can just blast away till the time to use a mirage dodge and backpedal some more comes. I get that everything takes some skill to do properly, but comparing fo to melee in terms of difficulty to use is like night and day.

[gigawuts]

I love how 90% of this forum eagerly overlooks statements that are repeatedly made such as "Nobody is saying HU is emphatically bad, just that FO and RA are better at their roles with less risk than HU is." Maybe they're just looking for an excuse to be angry about something.

It forces most balance discussions to devolve into just replying to every third poster and repeating that line again and again.

You guys really need to pay more attention.

[Skyly HUmar]

I love how 90% of this forum eagerly overlooks statements that are repeatedly made such as "Nobody is saying HU is emphatically bad, just that FO and RA are better at their roles with less risk than HU is." Maybe they're just looking for an excuse to be angry about something.

It forces most balance discussions to devolve into just replying to every third poster and repeating that line again and again.

You guys really need to pay more attention.

Idk how they missed the 650 post thread we had not too long ago.

[Zenobia]

Thats not it at all, We know melee is powerful, hence why we still use it. Were just pointing out the fact that FO is more effecient and other than a couple bosses that have good tech resistance it will usually out DPS any melee just because it doesnt have to worry about avoiding attacks anywhere near as often and they can just blast away till the time to use a mirage dodge and backpedal some more comes. I get that everything takes some skill to do properly, but comparing fo to melee in terms of difficulty to use is like night and day.

Thank you this is exactly what ive been trying to say also to be even more clearer ppl have been saying this WAYYYYY before subclasses were even in effect being totally clear here,but might as well throw that in there too~

Im not even bashing the FO i clearly said time and time again FO thrashes anything without the need of safety like HU which is why im wondering why and gawd idk who would even think FO sucks at bossing which is completely outrageous to no end.

Also that second Vid isn't FI/HU but rather HU/FI im gonna say that sword is def Sadiena Edge サディーナエッジ cause it's not all class neither is its former you should fix that around when you get the chance.

Not to mention these are wannabe JP English players(no offense) with some really nice gear in my vid i had next to nothing close to that so OFC the damage they put out is HUGE gonna count that as invalid at this point as i was HU/FI and i didnt have an all class DS nupe sure didn't and i know full well the dps on FI.

[Zenobia]

Idk how they missed the 650 post thread we had not too long ago.

You telling me IM FACE PALMING MYSELF RIGHT NOW~

[UnLucky]

And I really doubt the upcoming changes will 'fix' anything other than make Hunter a slightly sharper spiked ball with a glowing red weak spot

[Shadowth117]

Thank you this is exactly what ive been trying to say also to be even more clearer ppl have been saying this WAYYYYY before subclasses were even in effect being totally clear here,but might as well throw that in there too~

Im not even bashing the FO i clearly said time and time again FO thrashes anything without the need of safety like HU which is why im wondering why and gawd idk who would even think FO sucks at bossing which is completely outrageous to no end.

Also that second Vid isn't FI/HU but rather HU/FI im gonna say that sword is def Sadiena Edge サディーナエッジ cause it's not all class neither is its former you should fix that around when you get the chance.

Not to mention these are wannabe JP English players(no offense) with some really nice gear in my vid i had next to nothing close to that so OFC the damage they put out is HUGE gonna count that as invalid at this point as i was HU/FI and i didnt have an all class DS nupe sure didn't and i know full well the dps on FI.

I've read enough and played enough of all the classes to get how they work. Its not as if I don't pay any attention. As a few people pointed out earlier in the thread, the type of skill it takes to use Fo or Te and Ra or Gu is somewhat different than that of Hu or Fi. There are also a number of situations, particularly in TA where Fo is a bad choice to use compared to Hu or Fi. But lets move on here.

You talk of safety, but what of your hunter dodge? Not only is it faster giving it more efficiency by enabling faster than walking speeds, but it also allows for sooner attacks because its shorter and has less end lag which, especially with step attack, is amazing. Not to mention Hu's weapons all have the ability to block, and daggers can render one invulnerable and reflect damage however miniscule. There's a shorter window to use these sure, but at a certain point its just as easy for the most part.

As far as gear goes... if you really care look in the box
[spoiler-box]
And I wasn't going to go on to this topic, but since you brought it up... as far as your gear is concerned, I don't know what you have but its not difficult to get what they have. 10*s, sure lets say those are all luck for simplicity's sake. But affixes and grinding are different. I would say on unusually bad grind sessions a top tier weapon may take, I don't know, 8 mil or so to grind even with -1's. Units are very easy to +10 and aren't even worth mentioning in that regard although these only give defense anyway which isn't what we're talking about here.

Getting simple affixes like <Power III, Vol Soul> is extremely simple and can be brute forced, especially now with AQ's. But lets say your luck is just terrible. You buy 10 single vol soul and 7 power III's for each of your units. Assuming a vol souls are all 20k each and the power III's are all 20k each, you're looking at a grand total of 1.36 mil max for the items. Lets assume 10* too for kicks and say each attempt was 30k. And you attempted affixing 8 times each item lets say. 960k cost for the attempts, and together you used 2.32 mil total! So much money, I know.

And lets say you're just buying every, single item because your is just that bad. You buy your Lambda Failnote for a mil, and you get black wings for 2.4 mil.

So in total:
8 mil grinding (which is generally excessive by far)
2.32 mil worst case for affixing (also excessive)
3.4 mil for best possible 9*s
13.72 mil Total if everything fails as I said.

Yes, I realize there are more weapons to think about, but you get the point. Its not difficult or even extravagantly expensive to get a full set of affixed and grinded gear, *especially* considering that what I posted was a worst case cost.
[/spoiler-box]
But I've digressed quite a lot there. Go do what I did, as *short* as I did it, and then you're welcome to talk about how easy Fo is. Because let me tell you, if it comes to it I'll do a no damage Hu or Fi video with alba or vita weapons and severely underleveled hunter. You're underestimating your own class quite a lot and that proves something is wrong.

[gigawuts]

Yeah. I've spent a lot of time as both classes.

Mirage escape is not half as bad as self-proclaimed force mains like to say.

You keep saying hunters can block, in a thread you made where you made it blatantly clear good forces don't even get hit.

This is coming from someone that's skilled with both techs and melee, and has good gear on both: Stop trying to make this point. You're making yourself look bad.

[Zyrusticae]

But mirage escape IS bad.

LOTS of invincibility, but it's so goddamn inefficient it's painful. You don't even need half that many invincibility frames to be completely safe (assuming your reflexes are not terrible/completely untrained).

[gigawuts]

Jump cancel it.

[.Jack]

My approximate builds (game is offline, but I remember most of it) can be found here for anyone interested for whatever reason.
[spoiler-box]
Fire Tree
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03hDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkjcP9bIn0 00000febHoGBIbGKIb0000ib00000ib0000GOIk2X2Xln0000I b00000f

Lightning Tree
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/skillcalc.php?03hDbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkbdIkjcP9bIn0 00000febHoGBIbGKIb0000ib00000ib0000kbI22S6cAcAcK00 07b00000f
[/spoiler-box]

inb4FOischeap,EZmode,etcetc

Edit: Fixed the tree links -_-'

Gets*

Now, how 'bout that FI tree? :D

[Zenobia]

I've read enough and played enough of all the classes to get how they work. Its not as if I don't pay any attention. As a few people pointed out earlier in the thread, the type of skill it takes to use Fo or Te and Ra or Gu is somewhat different than that of Hu or Fi. There are also a number of situations, particularly in TA where Fo is a bad choice to use compared to Hu or Fi. But lets move on here.

You talk of safety, but what of your hunter dodge? Not only is it faster giving it more efficiency by enabling faster than walking speeds, but it also allows for sooner attacks because its shorter and has less end lag which, especially with step attack, is amazing. Not to mention Hu's weapons all have the ability to block, and daggers can render one invulnerable and reflect damage however miniscule. There's a shorter window to use these sure, but at a certain point its just as easy for the most part.

As far as gear goes... if you really care look in the box
[spoiler-box]
And I wasn't going to go on to this topic, but since you brought it up... as far as your gear is concerned, I don't know what you have but its not difficult to get what they have. 10*s, sure lets say those are all luck for simplicity's sake. But affixes and grinding are different. I would say on unusually bad grind sessions a top tier weapon may take, I don't know, 8 mil or so to grind even with -1's. Units are very easy to +10 and aren't even worth mentioning in that regard although these only give defense anyway which isn't what we're talking about here.

Getting simple affixes like <Power III, Vol Soul> is extremely simple and can be brute forced, especially now with AQ's. But lets say your luck is just terrible. You buy 10 single vol soul and 7 power III's for each of your units. Assuming a vol souls are all 20k each and the power III's are all 20k each, you're looking at a grand total of 1.36 mil max for the items. Lets assume 10* too for kicks and say each attempt was 30k. And you attempted affixing 8 times each item lets say. 960k cost for the attempts, and together you used 2.32 mil total! So much money, I know.

And lets say you're just buying every, single item because your is just that bad. You buy your Lambda Failnote for a mil, and you get black wings for 2.4 mil.

So in total:
8 mil grinding (which is generally excessive by far)
2.32 mil worst case for affixing (also excessive)
3.4 mil for best possible 9*s
13.72 mil Total if everything fails as I said.

Yes, I realize there are more weapons to think about, but you get the point. Its not difficult or even extravagantly expensive to get a full set of affixed and grinded gear, *especially* considering that what I posted was a worst case cost.
[/spoiler-box]
But I've digressed quite a lot there. Go do what I did, as *short* as I did it, and then you're welcome to talk about how easy Fo is. Because let me tell you, if it comes to it I'll do a no damage Hu or Fi video with alba or vita weapons and severely underleveled hunter. You're underestimating your own class quite a lot and that proves something is wrong.

I only bought of the gear comment only because you made the comment on the damage out being ridiculous and i never even said being capped out would net you that kinda damage actually also i know how simply it is to get affixes Ive done that before and still do.

Yes i to have plated with all the classes as well and know pretty much what they all evolve around honestly we got off topic to begin with once the that damage is ridiculous and my they have good gear comment so yeah my Fuck up.

And again the video wasn't about damage output was basically skilled based knowing that HU/FI has to do alot not getting hit it was never about gear to begin with.

Dunno what a vita has to do with but lets say if i wanted to do that i wouldn't see the merit at all.

@Giga yeah this was never supposed to shift into gear talk but she bought up the omg ridiculous damage i only pointed out the gear associated with it. If i sounded like a jackass i apologies as i did say my fuck up.

[UnLucky]

Jump cancel it.

But then you can get almost nothing or the full amount depending on how high you jump and what you're landing on. Like tiny rocks on the ground end your dodge way earlier, or any kind of incline has to be taken into account.

And you can't escape "gravity" moves like Ghano and Elder have with dash spam

Still love it though, and both are better than the ranged roll.

[gigawuts]

Then here's another thought: Stop being close enough to get hit or just walk out of the way as demonstrated in the video.

This will not be a conversation where just guard is held on a pedestal of consistence and reliability whereas mirage escape being used once every 45 minutes is somehow a horrible burden, and double step dashing can only be done by HU's, and having infinite range is countered by step attack.

[Sayara]

All i want to know is how the balls does Sa-Zonde destroy the Banther so badly :|

[Dextro]

Only real utility for the 'jump cancel' is if you've charged a tech only to realise everything is already dead and you just wanna get moving again asap.

This thread is such a mess :/

[gigawuts]

It targets that specific hitbox better than zonde does/can. It will deal bonus damage for hitting the banther's weak point (which is its head), and will hit breakable parts repeatedly and consistently.

[ShinMaruku]

It targets that specific hitbox better than zonde does/can. It will deal bonus damage for hitting the banther's weak point (which is its head), and will hit breakable parts repeatedly and consistently.
If only it would hit where I want it on the Hondas. He's always sumo slapping and charging me.

[Sayara]

i dont understand, dont you have to hit Sazonde's target with a different zonde tech to activate it? Like the Zondeel?

[Zyrusticae]

Still love it though, and both are better than the ranged roll.
Ranger roll confuses the hell out of me.

Does it even have any invincibility frames? I'm not sure I've ever managed to dodge anything that made contact with my ranger's character model before.

[Shadowth117]

Jump cancel it.

As I'm sure you know, this isn't always possible. There are times when it is very necessary to jump for a cast in the first place and the full mirage escape must be used, just for an example. I'm not saying it doesn't avoid damage well, because it really does, I'm simply arguing that its not the most convenient way of doing so. As Zyr said, its bad for its efficiency more than anything. At least step attack lets you get moving right out of a Hu or Fi style dodge.

Besides, as I said before I agree Hu and Fi need a buff. I just think they're a lot better compared to Fo than people give them credit for given my experience with time attacks.

@HC4: My Fi build is very generic, but if you go to the links I posted and look at the Fi skill tree it should be there I think. It basically just maxes the two stances right now.

@Sayara: Basically what giga commented on about it. Zonde hits the top of targets and for some enemies won't hit the right target. For the banther, the collision it hits on its head reads as a body hit rather than a face hit. Sazonde, as was said, is able to hit the face specifically in this case and so its more useful in this case since it hits a weak spot. Same deal with Zeshreida.

Edit: You do have to hit it that way, but it'll continually activate other ones you cast after its activated. Same deal with Zondeel.

@Zyr: It actually does have invincibility frames, but there's so few its almost not even worth using that way. The timing for it is ridiculously precise and I've only managed it a few times ever.

[ShinMaruku]

Zonde has a splash damage.

[UnLucky]

Then here's another thought: Stop being close enough to get hit or just walk out of the way as demonstrated in the video.

This will not be a conversation where just guard is held on a pedestal of consistence and reliability whereas mirage escape being used once every 45 minutes is somehow a horrible burden, and double step dashing can only be done by HU's, and having infinite range is countered by step attack.

Well that's entirely different and I'm not talking about that. It'd be a disaster if all melee weapons had ME instead of step. Just cause a Force doesn't need to dodge doesn't make their dodge good. I mean, they don't, and it is, but that's not the point.


Ranger roll confuses the hell out of me.

Does it even have any invincibility frames? I'm not sure I've ever managed to dodge anything that made contact with my ranger's character model before.

I've dived head first into bullets and taken damage immediately on the way down.

[Sayara]

Interesting, maybe i should give that a try the next time i fight a banther alone.

[~Aya~]

Have you buffed your fellow HU today?




I'm a support freak.. i almost wanna go Te/Ra to try having it all.

[ShinMaruku]

Support is ass in this game don't do it.
I did hug my zords today but not buff my hunters. They have Overend. Fuck Over End.

[~Aya~]

Support is ass in this game don't do it.
I did hug my zords today but not buff my hunters. They have Overend. Fuck Over End.



Lmaaaooooo.

[gigawuts]

As I'm sure you know, this isn't always possible. There are times when it is very necessary to jump for a cast in the first place and the full mirage escape must be used, just for an example. I'm not saying it doesn't avoid damage well, because it really does, I'm simply arguing that its not the most convenient way of doing so. As Zyr said, its bad for its efficiency more than anything. At least step attack lets you get moving right out of a Hu or Fi style dodge.

Besides, as I said before I agree Hu and Fi need a buff. I just think they're a lot better compared to Fo than people give them credit for given my experience with time attacks.

@HC4: My Fi build is very generic, but if you go to the links I posted and look at the Fi skill tree it should be there I think. It basically just maxes the two stances right now.

@Sayara: Basically what giga commented on about it. Zonde hits the top of targets and for some enemies won't hit the right target. For the banther, the collision it hits on its head reads as a body hit rather than a face hit. Sazonde, as was said, is able to hit the face specifically in this case and so its more useful in this case since it hits a weak spot. Same deal with Zeshreida.

Edit: You do have to hit it that way, but it'll continually activate other ones you cast after its activated. Same deal with Zondeel.

@Zyr: It actually does have invincibility frames, but there's so few its almost not even worth using that way. The timing for it is ridiculously precise and I've only managed it a few times ever.

There's the problem. You're looking at a VERY SMALL portion of the game. Melee is a very close range class by nature, and its strength lies in being close. Longer travel times mean less effectiveness. This game is largely a random and spread out one with many enemies hell bent on flinging themselves across the field for most of their movesets. Where an enemy will go is not consistent, nor is where an enemy will appear.

Time attack is created with all 3 class types in mind. There are many tight corridors and enemy spawns are consistent. Many enemies do not need killing.

Even still, pit an equally geared and skilled FO against HU, and FO's times are better every time.

So yeah. I've used both HU and FO extensively in time attack, AQ's, MPAing, and boss runs: FO does more, from farther, with more safety, more diversity, more consistency, and more sustainably.

[Dextro]

Another trade off is that you need a direct line of sight to land Sazonde repeatedly, which against these things is....yeah, pretty rare.
In the video the banther was pretty much just chilling in one spot stuck in a roar > roar > ice breath > roar pattern.
If your banther likes to leap around like it's on catnip, or stick it's head into mountains, then you're not gonna get those sort of results!

@ShinMaruku: Slightly tricker, but if you jump and cast a Zondeel, then activate it with an uncharged Razonde, it'll automatically hit the Wolga weak spot with each tick. You can then potentially take it down in like 10secs if for some reason it isn't moving about.

@Sayara: Sazonde is just like Zondeel, the charge is activated with another Lightning Tech, but from then on it's self-sustaining other Sazondes will be activated by the previous one.

[Shadowth117]

There's the problem. You're looking at a VERY SMALL portion of the game. Melee is a very close range class by nature, and its strength lies in being close. Longer travel times mean less effectiveness. This game is largely a random and spread out one with many enemies hell bent on flinging themselves across the field for most of their movesets. Where an enemy will go is not consistent, nor is where an enemy will appear.

Time attack is created with all 3 class types in mind. There are many tight corridors and enemy spawns are consistent. Many enemies do not need killing.

Even still, pit an equally geared and skilled FO against HU, and FO's times are better every time.

So yeah. I've used both HU and FO extensively in time attack, AQ's, MPAing, and boss runs: FO does more, from farther, with more safety, more diversity, more consistency, and more sustainably.

Yes, you're right about that. I would argue that the game is overall too focused on randomness as well honestly and that limits a melee class's usefulness in some cases. As I've said multiple times in this thread and I'm not sure if you've noticed now, Hu and Fi need a buff. Or at the very least, the game needs to have areas designed in ways that they can be more useful.

@Dextro: That's actually easier to get then you think. If you pile on damage and break the face part quickly, it tends to do the roar and other attacks where it stands still faster. This isn't always the case, but its a tendency the AI's seem to have.

Edit: I will say that the majority of the game as you imply is pretty easy to play without even thinking about what you're doing right now. Its easy, for me at least, to fall into a sort of trance while playing whatever class when I've grow used to it and not even think about what I'm doing whatsoever.