PDA

View Full Version : Nvidia and AMD Anti-Aliasing and SweetFX Guide



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 8, 2013, 07:14 PM
SGSSAA/MSAA Guide

Before going any further, please note that you need a mid to high-end Nvidia GPU to use SGSSAA. It isn't all bad for AMD users however, you can still use SweetFX which is detailed below. If you play at 720p-ish resolutions (most likely laptop users), you will need roughly a GTX 650m (slightly weaker than a gtx 550 ti). If you play at 1080p, you will need around a 660 ti in performance.

Compatibility bit: 0x004010C5
AA fix should be turned ON.

Native screenshots (No AA what-so-ever)
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/pso20141007_161155_00aylcx.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/pso20141007_161254_00ckzw8.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA - LOD Bias -1.000
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/pso20141005_231049_0091q09.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/pso20141005_232757_00pijjj.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

For good performance AA, I recommend skipping to the SweetFX section and using SMAA.

This is how Nvidia Inspector should look when setting it up. (Only pay attention to the anti-aliasing and LOD parts for SGSSAA)
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.techpowerup.org/141009/nvidia_20141009_204638.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

HBAO+ Setup

Navigate to the PSO2 profile in Nvidia Inspector and place 0x00000034 in the "Ambient Occlusion compatibility" field. Go down to the sub-heading called "Common" and change "Ambient Occlusion setting" to your desired quality level and change "Ambient Occlusion usage" to enabled.

Without HBAO+:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/pso20141005_231557_00rgrym.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/pso20141005_233032_00bhj10.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

With HBAO+:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/pso20141005_231049_0091q09.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/pso20141005_232757_00pijjj.png[/SPOILER-BOX] (pre-baked ambient occlusion makes this one not as noticeable, but there is still a difference for the better)
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/pso20141005_234257_00y6jml.png[/SPOILER-BOX] (I spent 30 minutes trying to get this version of caves again for a screenshot. It wasn't happening, so this is just with HBAO+)

SweetFX and/or SMAA for both Nvidia and AMD

Things you will need:
PSO2 (obviously)
RadeonPro (http://www.radeonpro.info/download/), even if you have an Nvidia card!
SweetFX 1.4 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4yudr7tnzuso1o/SweetFX-1.4-%5BGuru3D.com%5D.7z) (Since SweetFX 1.5 is out, it is difficult to find a download for 1.4, so I uploaded my original download of SweetFX 1.4 to dropbox, which is where that link will take you. It is provided in the exact same format as I downloaded it and none of the files have been changed)

1.) Let's start with installing RadeonPro. It is a typical install, so I won't walk you through it.

2.) Download and Extract SweetFX 1.4 to a location you will remember. I recommend creating a separate folder for SweetFX. You will need to tell RadeonPro where you have the files located.

3.) Open up RadeonPro. For Nvidia users, a pop-up will show letting you know you don't have AMD drivers (SHOCKER!) Ignore it, it doesn't matter for what we are going to use RadeonPro for.

4.) Now we are going to create the PSO2 profile and configure the launch settings.
a.) Click the file with the green "+" sign on it. [SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4YFM4.png[/SPOILER-BOX] then navigate to where you have PSO2 installed and select pso2. Note that it is not pso2launcher, just plain pso2.
The default location is C:\Program Files (x86)\SEGA\PHANTASYSTARONLINE2\pso2_bin

b.)Now select your added profile and navigate to the "Launcher" tab in RadeonPro. Select Custom from the drop down menu. In the Launcher details section, browse for the launcher that you use. If you use the regular launcher for PSO2, it will be pso2launcher in the same directory as the normal .exe. You can select PSO2 Tweaker as your game launcher as well.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4YG8b.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

5.) Now we are going to setup SweetFX in RadeonPro. In RadeonPro, go to settings [SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4YGeO.png[/SPOILER-BOX] and select "SweetFX settings" from the left side menu. Enable SweetFX integration and click "Change..." to navigate to where you extracted SweetFX. You can also change your SweetFX toggle key, which I recommend doing if you play with a mouse and keyboard since the default (scroll lock) will toggle direct chat as well. I play with a gamepad, so I left mine on Scroll Lock.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4YGFZ.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
Don't forget to click Save!

6.) Now we can configure SweetFX! Navigate to the SweetFX tab, click "Enable SweetFX" and you can try out some effects if you'd like.

I do want to warn some people about LumaSharpen. It is a filter that goes over the game. Many people make the mistake of thinking it will magically sharpen everything, when in reality it makes things appear sharper. The reason this difference matters is that when people turn up sharpening too high, you can actually see the sharpening pattern. LumaSharpen is a nice filter only when used at low values.

I will post some screenshots of my game followed by my SweetFX settings below.

When you are done and ready to play the game, you must launch the game within RadeonPro if you want these settings to work. Right click on the PSO2 profile and select play.

OPTIONAL 7.) If you want to use SMAA, navigate to the "Visual" tab in RadeonPro. There is a checkbox on the page for SMAA. Under "Quality", select the quality you want to use, or choose custom. Nvidia users must select custom. If you don't want to customize the values yourself, you can select the quality you want and then select custom. The values from the preset you picked will remain the same. For maximum quality, use these values [SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4YH8d.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Important information: There are key toggles for multiple things in RadeonPro. If you use SMAA, you will probably want to change it from the default key of "-" on the numpad. That key has a binding in PSO2 already. Go into settings -> Advanced to change the keybinds for SMAA, FXAA, and the OSD (on screen display which shows your framerate).

It should also be mentioned that taking a screenshot using PSO2's built in screenshot system will not show SweetFX or SMAA. You must take the screenshot using RadeonPro. You can configure the screenshot settings in the settings menu of RadeonPro.

My SweetFX Screenshots and Settings
With SMAA, Without SweetFX
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/smaanosweetfxfps12.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

With SMAA + SweetFX
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/sweetfxsmaaipswy.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

With SweetFX, No SMAA
[SPOILER-BOX]http://abload.de/img/sweetfxnosmaaw1sl7.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

I will list the effects I am using, followed by a image of the values I am using. Any effects I don't mention aren't being used. If you want to use my settings, below is a link to download my settings.

SweetFX settings (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0mujsj1zeb65jm9/pso2.txt)

Bloom: [SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4YINE.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
HDR: [SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4YIYz.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
LumaSharpen: [SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4YJ21.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
Vibrance: [SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/4YJ4x.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Hope this helps a lot of people trying to improve their game! :D

FAQ

Q. "Can I run this?"
A. Any machine that plays PSO2 at an acceptable framerate can use SweetFX. The performance hit is generally very small. In order to use SGSSAA, you need an Nvidia card and it needs to be very powerful.

Q. "How can I make my game look like Sizustar's? (aka: using SSAO)"
A. You have to downgrade your driver to the version before HBAO+ was introduced. If you play games other than PSO2, I highly recommend you use the latest drivers instead. If you really want your game to look like Sizustar's, download a driver before version 331.40. Make sure your graphics card is compatible with the drivers!
UPDATE: I found an HBAO+ flag which is added to the guide. It isn't as strong as SSAO, but it is still very visible. It looks very nice!

Q. "SweetFX isn't working. How do I fix it?"
A. This is a tricky one, but here we go:

First, make sure you went through all the steps correctly. Please do so before asking for help.


If your game is crashing right at startup, try closing overlay software such as FRAPS, MSI Afterburner, etc.

If you are getting permission errors, make sure you are running RadeonPro as administrator (for the sake of making it easy, do so for both 32bit and 64bit executables), PSO2.exe, and your launcher of choice. If that doesn't solve the permission problems, I'm honestly not sure what else you can try.

If the game is running fine, but RadeonPro isn't hooking (meaning it isn't doing anything), open up the settings in RadeonPro and check the box for "Disable advanced D3D9 hooking". (This is what fixed it for me). You can also try getting RadeonPro to hook to the Character Creator for PSO2. If you can get that to work, you will know the issue is with GameGuard.


If the above doesn't work or your issue isn't listed, feel free to ask for help.

Kion
Mar 8, 2013, 11:31 PM
Welcome to pso-world. And here's a working version of your pic.

[spoiler-box]
http://sun.gmobb.jp/collins/pso2aa.png
[/spoiler-box]

ShadowDragon28
Mar 8, 2013, 11:44 PM
can you put that all into layman's terms. with simple instructions on how to implement your thingy?

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 9, 2013, 12:00 AM
Sure. You need to download Nvidia Inspector http://www.guru3d.com/files_details/nvidia_inspector_download.html

Then, go to the pso2 profile, and configure it to look like mine http://gyazo.com/05737e6a0bf5f217c676787ed672dd5f

You don't need to use the Ambient Occlusion bit (it has some flicker and has a HUGE performance hit). The main focus is the anti-aliasing bits, the forced AA values, and the LOD options I have. You need to make sure, whatever value you decide to use, it is uniform across both multi-sampling, and SGSSAA (meaning 2x MSAA + 2x SGSSAA, or 4x MSAA + 4x SGSSAA etc.)

Also note that it does have a hefty performance hit, that is the nature of this form of AA. I use 4x SGSSAA and my rig has 2 560 ti cards in SLI. That puts my GPU usage up to about 71% each. Meaning to run it optimally at 60 fps, you need to have a card equivalent to about a 660ti (complete ball park guess btw).

Edit: I should also mention that if you use 2x MSAA + 2x SGSSAA, the LOD value should be set to -0.5. If you have a monstrous rig, and can use 8x MSAA + 8x SGSSAA, you need to use -1.5.

Zyrusticae
Mar 9, 2013, 12:05 AM
On a related tangent, you should try the Mirror's Edge ambient occlusion bit as it is a bit lighter and fits a lot better with the game's aesthetic.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 9, 2013, 12:08 AM
On a related tangent, you should try the Mirror's Edge ambient occlusion bit as it is a bit lighter and fits a lot better with the game's aesthetic.

Will do. I couldn't find another one that works, so thank you!

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 9, 2013, 12:37 AM
On a related tangent, you should try the Mirror's Edge ambient occlusion bit as it is a bit lighter and fits a lot better with the game's aesthetic.

I tried it out, and it has some stutter/flicker in motion (I personally don't like that). All ambient occlusion being forced in any game seems to do that though. It does look extremely good in a screenshot however, and if I am ever gonna get some screens, I will probably turn it on haha.

Sizustar
Mar 10, 2013, 01:52 PM
I don't think there is a real solution to the flickering shadow.
And there's also a Japanese player that tries different setting on Nvidia Setting on his two GPU, Nvidia GTX 690 and his newest card Nvidia Titan.

His AA profile
http://lavendy.net/special/pso2/pso2_nvaa.zip

http://lavendy.net/pso2/2012/12/pso2_antialiasing_update1212.html#more

Here is his various blog page on settings, with video so you can see his game in motion. His latest is testing GTX Titan vs. GTX 690
http://lavendy.net/pso2/pc_setting/

Zyrusticae
Mar 10, 2013, 01:55 PM
I tried it out, and it has some stutter/flicker in motion (I personally don't like that). All ambient occlusion being forced in any game seems to do that though. It does look extremely good in a screenshot however, and if I am ever gonna get some screens, I will probably turn it on haha.
Are you running in performance mode?

I don't see much flickering in quality or high quality settings. Of course there will always be artifacts when dealing with stairs, that's just a limitation of a screen-space effect, and fortunately none of the stages are covered in stairs. :-P

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 02:49 PM
I was using high performance mode. I have used the bits that guy has on his blog, and they all sucked. The in game aa looked better than his, which is why I made my own lol. When I get on my computer, I can take comparison shots and post em here. Also, there is absolutely no shimmering when using my settings.

Pyrii
Mar 10, 2013, 04:02 PM
Interesting, I've been looking up why without these bits, forcing AA for PSO2 has no effect. I notice the in-game AA still has horrible shimmering in textures (Anisotrophy having no effect?)

Also, what do the changes to the AA Compat value from base actually do? And what is the base Compat value by the way?

EDIT: Also, how do Symbol Arts look with and without your AA? I noticed 4x SGSS oversharpens textures and messes up Symbol Arts.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 04:14 PM
Interesting, I've been looking up why without these bits, forcing AA for PSO2 has no effect. I notice the in-game AA still has horrible shimmering in textures (Anisotrophy having no effect?)

Also, what do the changes to the AA Compat value from base actually do? And what is the base Compat value by the way?

EDIT: Also, how do Symbol Arts look with and without your AA? I noticed 4x SGSS oversharpens textures and messes up Symbol Arts.

The default for this game is 0x00000000. Nvidia never made any for this game, which is why forcing AA doesn't work. Also, regular AA doesn't work well with this game, because it has A LOT of texture aliasing that regular MSAA/CSAA can't touch. This game requires SSAA, HSAA, or SGSSAA. The problem with SSAA and HSAA is that it messes up shadows to the point where there aren't any, except for a box of light that moves with your camera, which is very awkward looking.

Since gameguard sucks, you can't use any kind of injectors, so no SweetFX or SMAA. I find that SGSSAA is the only acceptable form to use.

EDIT: I haven't used and symbol chat so I don't know how it effects it. It sounds like you are describing SSAA though. SGSSAA is different from SSAA and shouldn't have the same effect on symbol chat, in theory.

Pyrii
Mar 10, 2013, 04:24 PM
The default for this game is 0x00000000. Nvidia never made any for this game, which is why forcing AA doesn't work. Also, regular AA doesn't work well with this game, because it has A LOT of texture aliasing that regular MSAA/CSAA can't touch. This game requires SSAA, HSAA, or SGSSAA. The problem with SSAA and HSAA is that it messes up shadows to the point where there aren't any, except for a box of light that moves with your camera, which is very awkward looking.

Since gameguard sucks, you can't use any kind of injectors, so no SweetFX or SMAA. I find that SGSSAA is the only acceptable form to use.

Yeah I gave SweetFX a shot and found it worked, but gameguard quickly spoilt it. Although not by much because the result wasn't good to begin with.

If only we could fix the horrible clothing textures, especially on emissive textures and some minimaps.

EDIT: Does gamma correction actually DO anything for AA or is it just another colour filter for the whole image?

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 04:36 PM
Yeah I gave SweetFX a shot and found it worked, but gameguard quickly spoilt it. Although not by much because the result wasn't good to begin with.

If only we could fix the horrible clothing textures, especially on emissive textures and some minimaps.

EDIT: Does gamma correction actually DO anything for AA or is it just another colour filter for the whole image?

I made a sweetfx for this game too (based it off of what I think needed to be done) then fired it up, it looked absolutely FANTASTIC, then gameguard closed the game and I wanted to curl up in a corner lol.

I believe the gamma correction is OpenGL only, so it shouldn't effect this game at all.

Edit: Would also like to add that I editing the original post to have a comparison shot between my values and the popular values on that japanese blog.

Zyrusticae
Mar 10, 2013, 04:58 PM
I made a sweetfx for this game too (based it off of what I think needed to be done) then fired it up, it looked absolutely FANTASTIC, then gameguard closed the game and I wanted to curl up in a corner lol.

Yep, my experience as well.

Fuck Gameguard. It ruins everything.

I should note that downsampling works fine in this game as an alternative to straight SSAA (there's a guide for it here (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=509076)). It'll scale the HUD, of course, but it does reduce aliasing while dramatically improving clarity, and it has no side-effects with regards to in-game effects (even motion blur works correctly, which I can't say for SGSSAA where it tends to break the interpolation effects).

I still use SGSSAA, though, since downsampling causes a massive performance hit with ambient occlusion (it works on a per-pixel basis, hence, since downsampling dramatically increases the number of pixels on-screen, it also dramatically increases the number of samples taken by the ambient occlusion shader. SGSSAA does not have this problem since it runs at the native resolution and simply runs more samples per pixel), but if you're not using AO there's no reason to not downsample.

Pyrii
Mar 10, 2013, 05:14 PM
I've been playing with your settings with the Character Creator (Stuck patching PSO2 atm) and wow, it's a bit blurry, I'm having trouble focusing on the characters on the screen etc.

I am noticing though that LOD Bias is having no real effect imo. Turning off transparency SGSS makes text clearer. And I have checked, AA isn't on in the game.

There-in lies the problem, this is a hack unfortunately. If only Sonic Team could code better native AA...

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 05:15 PM
Yep, my experience as well.

Fuck Gameguard. It ruins everything.

I should note that downsampling works fine in this game as an alternative to straight SSAA (there's a guide for it here (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=509076)). It'll scale the HUD, of course, but it does reduce aliasing while dramatically improving clarity, and it has no side-effects with regards to in-game effects (even motion blur works correctly, which I can't say for SGSSAA where it tends to break the interpolation effects).

I still use SGSSAA, though, since downsampling causes a massive performance hit with ambient occlusion (it works on a per-pixel basis, hence, since downsampling dramatically increases the number of pixels on-screen, it also dramatically increases the number of samples taken by the ambient occlusion shader. SGSSAA does not have this problem since it runs at the native resolution and simply runs more samples per pixel), but if you're not using AO there's no reason to not downsample.

Downsampling doesn't play with my monitor well (it ALWAYS has noticeable blur for me). The motion blur works great with SGSSAA for me. If it didn't work, I probably wouldn't use it, since I LOVE this games use of motion blur. It is subtle where it should be, and noticeable where it is effective. All games using motion blur should implement it like this game.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 05:19 PM
I've been playing with your settings with the Character Creator (Stuck patching PSO2 atm) and wow, it's a bit blurry, I'm having trouble focusing on the characters on the screen etc.

I am noticing though that LOD Bias is having no real effect imo. Turning off transparency SGSS makes text clearer. And I have checked, AA isn't on in the game.

There-in lies the problem, this is a hack unfortunately. If only Sonic Team could code better native AA...

Did you set it up properly? I have a keen eye for this kind of thing, and the image isn't blurry, it is softened a bit though. SGSSAA works in a way that it will soften the image a bit. Did you set the same number of multisamples as SGSSAA? The SGSSAA works off of the sample count of the MSAA, so it is very important to use the same values.

The LOD bias isn't going to help with the blur, it is just an added bonus of using SGSSAA or SSAA. I believe the LOD bias helps a lot with shadows in this game (adjusts when the LOD textures will change, making the higher resolution shadows render a bit farther back).

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 05:27 PM
Just added a native screenshot to the OP. The IQ difference is quite high IMO.

Zyrusticae
Mar 10, 2013, 05:54 PM
How interesting. I haven't heard of downsampling introducing blur before. What a shame, it works great on mine and I use it on many games (basically anything that doesn't have good SGSSAA bits).

At any rate, both downsampling and SGSSAA look great on my machine. It really is amazing how much of a difference it makes in the IQ. I've always felt that a properly anti-aliased image should resemble pre-rendered CG in its cleanliness. It's a shame I won't be able to maintain this kind of IQ in next-gen games (though hopefully they will compensate with improved AA solutions, like SMAA T2x and TXAA).

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 06:01 PM
How interesting. I haven't heard of downsampling introducing blur before. What a shame, it works great on mine and I use it on many games (basically anything that doesn't have good SGSSAA bits).

At any rate, both downsampling and SGSSAA look great on my machine. It really is amazing how much of a difference it makes in the IQ. I've always felt that a properly anti-aliased image should resemble pre-rendered CG in its cleanliness. It's a shame I won't be able to maintain this kind of IQ in next-gen games (though hopefully they will compensate with improved AA solutions, like SMAA T2x and TXAA).

I know. One of the things that aggravates me the most about many game devs is their love of FXAA. It looks like garbage and only actually works in screenshots. When playing, the shimmering is still their, except now it is blurry shimmering haha. SMAA is definitely the best post-process method around atm, and I wish more devs would implement it. Only game that I have seen have it built-in is crysis 3, but AA in that game is atrocious and hardly works.

Side note: I am currently experimenting with the values a bit more to see if I can sharpen up the image a bit, although I think this is as good as it gets. Each one of the values I have selected is the best of each category, cause I tried every option in those. The others I couldn't see any difference at all when turning them on, so I left them at 0. I will keep playing with it to see if I missed a magic number in one of those slots though.

Home Dog
Mar 10, 2013, 08:39 PM
Just tried this. Used your settings and it definitely made a difference, though it is a bit harder to tell through the screenshots I have. I don't even know if I did it all correctly but whatever. Wish I could make a video of this.
New:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/JuqiCFu.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Original:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/FegK7PS.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Zyrusticae
Mar 10, 2013, 08:43 PM
Oh, I should make a note here that if you use SGSSAA you should disable both FXAA and the in-game anti-aliasing as they are redundant and will blur the image considerably.

FXAA CAN catch some leftover aliasing that SGSSAA doesn't touch up very well, but the loss of clarity is a pretty extreme price to pay for that AA. It also doesn't show up in screenshots, for whatever reason.

The in-game AA is just terrible and useless and you should never use it under any circumstances (it's some primitive form of MLAA and is full of artifacts and is generally not very good at what it's supposed to do).

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 09:07 PM
Just tried this. Used your settings and it definitely made a difference, though it is a bit harder to tell through the screenshots I have. I don't even know if I did it all correctly but whatever. Wish I could make a video of this.
New:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/JuqiCFu.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Original:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/FegK7PS.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Using .jpg will usually compress the image and is not a good format for comparing image quality. You should use .png or .bmp (which you can set in-game).

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 09:12 PM
I have been fiddling around with the compatibility value more and have come to the conclusion that this is as good as it will get for this game. I have used essentially every possible value in each category. I don't have anything technical to back up this, but it appears that each number/letter in each section of the overall value controls a different aspect of how the AA works with the engine (just my observation, not sure if it is true). If what I said is true, then I am pretty certain this is the best possible value for PSO2. Also, SSAA does work with this, but still has the shadow glitch (it is really ugly and can only be fixed by turning shadows off!), and MSAA works without any immediate glitches to notice. MSAA does not touch aliasing on textures, and this game is full of em, so it isn't worth it for me. I find that adjusting my eyes to the softer SGSSAA image makes it look much better than anything else.

Edit: Would also like to add that the value I have in the OP does not need the 2 at the end of it (I knew it didn't upon posting, but for some reason I thought the 2 did something). I will update the post to reflect it.

Sizustar
Mar 10, 2013, 09:40 PM
Well, regarding SweetFX, I've read people getting it to work with AMD Card and the program Radeon Pro, as I don't have a AMD card...

http://backarksr18.blog.shinobi.jp/%E6%9C%AA%E9%81%B8%E6%8A%9E/rp%E5%85%B6%E3%81%AE%E5%BC%90

http://team-fhh.blogspot.com/2013/01/ss-radeonprosweet-fx.html

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 09:52 PM
Well, regarding SweetFX, I've read people getting it to work with AMD Card and the program Radeon Pro, as I don't have a AMD card...

http://backarksr18.blog.shinobi.jp/%E6%9C%AA%E9%81%B8%E6%8A%9E/rp%E5%85%B6%E3%81%AE%E5%BC%90

http://team-fhh.blogspot.com/2013/01/ss-radeonprosweet-fx.html

I have come across that as well haha. However, the benefits of an Nvidia card outweigh those of a Radeon card (at least for high end machines). I also have an Nvidia 3D monitor, so I am kinda obligated to go with Nvidia if I wanna use 3D lol

Zyrusticae
Mar 10, 2013, 10:11 PM
The SweetFX part does NOT require a Radeon card (I know, I've tried it on my GTX 670s and it works just fine in Path of Exile).

What confuses me is how they managed to get it to work with PSO2, because I've attempted to do so yet for some reason it never detects the executable. If someone could figure out how they're managing to do that, it'd be a major boon...

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 10:14 PM
The SweetFX part does NOT require a Radeon card (I know, I've tried it on my GTX 670s and it works just fine in Path of Exile).

What confuses me is how they managed to get it to work with PSO2, because I've attempted to do so yet for some reason it never detects the executable. If someone could figure out how they're managing to do that, it'd be a major boon...

I know it works on Nvidia cards, RadeonPro (for Radeon cards, obviously) has sweetfx built into it, and you can put it in games without using a .dll injection, so gameguard won't freak out.

Zyrusticae
Mar 10, 2013, 10:23 PM
I was talking about RadeonPro, actually. I was told specifically by the maker that it does, in fact, use executable injection, which caused me to give up on it entirely. But now that I've learned that it somehow avoids detection by Gameguard...

I'm trying to figure out how they got it working. I just need the program to at least notice the PSO2.exe...

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 10:26 PM
I was talking about RadeonPro, actually. I was told specifically by the maker that it does, in fact, use executable injection, which caused me to give up on it entirely. But now that I've learned that it somehow avoids detection by Gameguard...

I'm trying to figure out how they got it working. I just need the program to at least notice the PSO2.exe...

Well if you can get it working on an Nvidia card, PLEASE let me know. This game benefits from it greatly haha.

Alisha
Mar 10, 2013, 11:01 PM
does this do anything if you run the game at max? cause ive never noticed any jaggies.

Zyrusticae
Mar 10, 2013, 11:24 PM
Hmmmm, no go. I am starting to think that RP actually monitors the driver API for the executable and intercepts it from there for games that cannot be injected directly, hence why those players are able to get it to work but I am not. Path of Exile has no anti-cheat so it works fine there (though it's strange that the game refuses to load any external DLLs but still loads SweetFX when injected through RP on an Nvidia card).

How very strange that, for once, I am actually somewhat envious of Radeon users...

Sizustar
Mar 10, 2013, 11:30 PM
does this do anything if you run the game at max? cause ive never noticed any jaggies.

It's easier to see in motion, as the ingame Max isn't that really high quality.


Hmmmm, no go. I am starting to think that RP actually monitors the driver API for the executable and intercepts it from there for games that cannot be injected directly, hence why those players are able to get it to work but I am not. Path of Exile has no anti-cheat so it works fine there (though it's strange that the game refuses to load any external DLLs but still loads SweetFX when injected through RP on an Nvidia card).

How very strange that, for once, I am actually somewhat envious of Radeon users...

And they got TressFX working on the new Tombraider game, while Nvidia...causes crashes, etc.
And since the new PS4 and Xbox 720 seems to use AMD stuff, the new games might be more optimized for AMD this time. wwww

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 11:33 PM
does this do anything if you run the game at max? cause ive never noticed any jaggies.

well whether you notice them or not depends on screen size and resolution. If you are on a 15" 1080p screen, the ingame aa will probably work fine for you. Ultimately, if you don't notice it, it doesn't really matter :p

To answer your question, maxed settings won't get rid of them all and this works on max settings. You need a powerful PC to run this though.

Zyrusticae
Mar 10, 2013, 11:43 PM
And they got TressFX working on the new Tombraider game, while Nvidia...causes crashes, etc.
And since the new PS4 and Xbox 720 seems to use AMD stuff, the new games might be more optimized for AMD this time. wwww
Eh.

PSO2 is like, the only game I play where I can't just use the DLL injection (Path of Exile notwithstanding, I just dabble in that every now and then), and it alone is reeaally not worth switching cards for, especially after I spent $900 on my two GTX 670s... >. >;

Plus I get AO support, digital vibrance if I just want more color, and better driver/SLI support in general. Going Nvidia has been a pretty good gig so far. We'll see how things turn out in the coming generation, though, since all the consoles are now using AMD hardware.

Sizustar
Mar 10, 2013, 11:48 PM
Eh.

PSO2 is like, the only game I play where I can't just use the DLL injection (Path of Exile notwithstanding, I just dabble in that every now and then), and it alone is reeaally not worth switching cards for, especially after I spent $900 on my two GTX 670s... >. >;

Plus I get AO support, digital vibrance if I just want more color, and better driver/SLI support in general. Going Nvidia has been a pretty good gig so far. We'll see how things turn out in the coming generation, though, since all the consoles are now using AMD hardware.

For that much, isn't it better to just get a GTX 690 or 670 instead of waiting for SLI fix from Nvidia?

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 10, 2013, 11:52 PM
For that much, isn't it better to just get a GTX 690 or 670 instead of waiting for SLI fix from Nvidia?

a 690 is SLI :p sli usually works on release or within a few days of release on major titles. a lot of games only require you to force alternate frame rendering 2 to work correctly as well.

Zyrusticae
Mar 11, 2013, 12:03 AM
Well, I will say I would have gone for a GeForce Titan if it were released by the time I was buying. Sadly, it was still a few months out back then. Would've been a great buy.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 11, 2013, 12:18 AM
Well, I will say I would have gone for a GeForce Titan if it were released by the time I was buying. Sadly, it was still a few months out back then. Would've been a great buy.

The price to performance ratio is the worst any computer part has been in the past 20 years O_o

ZER0 DX
Mar 11, 2013, 12:53 AM
The price to performance ratio is the worst any computer part has been in the past 20 years O_o

Yeah for sure, doing SLI on two 680's is much more cost effective and you'll end up with better performance than a single Titan. Quite an expensive endeavor to do the same to the Titan.

I'm currently running a single GTX 680 and planning to SLI with another one sometime this summer. It'll be more than enough power to max out everything for the next couple of years and then some.

Zyrusticae
Mar 11, 2013, 01:12 AM
You'd think so, but I know from experience that SLI compatibility issues and micro stuttering both rear their ugly heads from time to time. Microstuttering in particular can be a major deal-breaker as it dramatically increases the perception of input lag at lower frame rates.

And the Titan is only some 80% slower than two GTX 680s, while eating up considerably less power and being quieter and also being able to put into SLI itself, making it the single most powerful consumer graphics card available on the planet.

It might not be cost-effective, but you don't go high-end for cost-effectiveness. ;)

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 11, 2013, 01:17 AM
You'd think so, but I know from experience that SLI compatibility issues and micro stuttering both rear their ugly heads from time to time. Microstuttering in particular can be a major deal-breaker as it dramatically increases the perception of input lag at lower frame rates.

And the Titan is only some 80% slower than two GTX 680s, while eating up considerably less power and being quieter and also being able to put into SLI itself, making it the single most powerful consumer graphics card available on the planet.

It might not be cost-effective, but you don't go high-end for cost-effectiveness. ;)

Micro-stutter only occurs when you are using v-sync and below your refresh rate. In fact, Nvidia has a setting that smooths out the v-sync across both cards, but can hurt performance (really depends on the game whether it is good or not). The easiest fix is to use adaptive v-sync or the new option called on (smooth) in the v-sync category in the control panel.

Zyrusticae
Mar 11, 2013, 01:32 AM
Unfortunately, both of those just point out the magnitude of the problem. Adaptive v-sync shows plenty of screen tearing below 60 FPS and the smooth option can reduce the frame rate dramatically depending on how bad the difference is in frame times on the two cards.

Given the choice between one card that is 80% slower and two cards combined that have the aforementioned issues, I'll go for the one card every time. :)

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 11, 2013, 01:39 AM
Unfortunately, both of those just point out the magnitude of the problem. Adaptive v-sync shows plenty of screen tearing below 60 FPS and the smooth option can reduce the frame rate dramatically depending on how bad the difference is in frame times on the two cards.

Given the choice between one card that is 80% slower and two cards combined that have the aforementioned issues, I'll go for the one card every time. :)

Yeah, but if you have SLI and are getting below 60 fps idk what you are doing haha.

Zyrusticae
Mar 11, 2013, 01:47 AM
Pushing SGSSAA/downsampling at high resolutions and forcing high quality AO can all easily drop the frame rate below 60, especially in newer games (Crysis 3 in particular is so demanding that I can't run the game completely smoothly at 1080p with 4x MSAA, much less supersampling). Even PSO2 causes the frame rate to dip when particle effects are clipping with the camera!

Such is the curse of one who demands perfect image quality. ;)

ZER0 DX
Mar 11, 2013, 01:49 AM
You'd think so, but I know from experience that SLI compatibility issues and micro stuttering both rear their ugly heads from time to time. Microstuttering in particular can be a major deal-breaker as it dramatically increases the perception of input lag at lower frame rates.

And the Titan is only some 80% slower than two GTX 680s, while eating up considerably less power and being quieter and also being able to put into SLI itself, making it the single most powerful consumer graphics card available on the planet.

It might not be cost-effective, but you don't go high-end for cost-effectiveness. ;)

Oh trust me, if I had the financial income to where I could just toss over 2 grand on getting Titans in SLI without batting an eye I probably would, but I rather like to be able to afford food haha.

As it stands now, it doesn't make much sense for me to spend twice as much on something that isn't going to offer that much of a performance increase. I can see maybe in the next few years when games start pushing current technological boundaries, thus actually requiring something like the titan, but as of right now that won't be happening for a while, and by that point something better will be available and probably a lot cheaper too.


I'd love to be able to force things to have the best image quality available as well, but when the difference between forcing settings beyond what was intended becomes negligible unless you have your face pressed against the screen, then you have to stop and wonder if it's really worth it just to get that slightly higher sample of AA.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 11, 2013, 02:12 AM
Would like to say that my laptop can run PSO2 with 2xMSAA + 2xSGSSAA at 1080p with everything maxed out, in-game AA off obviously, at around 60 fps (can't use fraps or afterburner, damn you gameguard).

Laptop specs:
Intel i7-3610qm
8gb DDR3 RAM
GTX 660m 2gb GDDR5 RAM

A 660m is roughly equivalent to a 550ti I believe. So if you have a card better than that (most desktops probably do lol), you can run some multiple of SGSSAA.

Zyrusticae
Mar 11, 2013, 03:58 PM
Welp, RadeonPro's creator has confirmed my suspicions and PSO2.exe is indeed not being detected because I don't have an ATI card running ATI drivers. Ah, well. Maybe one day Gameguard will stop being such a bitch... a man can dream, eh?

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 11, 2013, 11:47 PM
Welp, RadeonPro's creator has confirmed my suspicions and PSO2.exe is indeed not being detected because I don't have an ATI card running ATI drivers. Ah, well. Maybe one day Gameguard will stop being such a bitch... a man can dream, eh?

I wonder how hard it would be for him to make something basic that could do the same thing for nvidia cards...

By basic, I mean a single function, which is to inject SweetFX, SMAA, FXAA, etc without a straight forward .dll injection.

Zyrusticae
Mar 14, 2013, 01:13 AM
Just to remind myself exactly what I'm missing out on, I went in and took some screenshots in the small window of time I had before Gameguard kicked me out.
[spoiler-box]
Before
https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pQ5l0aSZtdZ62hxYJvmLXJRCGMNBfqdYIgsPPuaupNK7xgSE I1BWmMS0GPJhYT3OAbepS4rDxwq0/pso20130314_010558_003.jpg?psid=1
After
https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pvEZxIkt05-wtTc996FLMGgdO7Z0NusaOI_Haqal9OlawPwSY9QhKHCjujHkW CX4NzaN9aqWooIo/screenshot_004.jpg?psid=1
Before
https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pVmJcObzZ2XvGt-EDR0Q845aBZZB-aPI_DLv5CuhGBb9fOqt3x312dzGcCrviN3G82me3gSsSNOE/pso20130314_010544_000.jpg?psid=1
After
https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1p9tbwrUEgT5Molv3xwLHpju76TGhZ2VwIfILCcQ6Ecctx95p NLidXsFobfuLC2d6EAiECrbrSGuE/screenshot_001.jpg?psid=1[/spoiler-box]
I BLOODY HATE YOU GAMEGUARD YOU SHOULD ALL GO FALL DOWN A DITCH AND DIE GGRAAARRRGH

Sizustar
Mar 14, 2013, 01:18 AM
Just to remind myself exactly what I'm missing out on, I went in and took some screenshots in the small window of time I had before Gameguard kicked me out.
[spoiler-box]
Before
https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pQ5l0aSZtdZ62hxYJvmLXJRCGMNBfqdYIgsPPuaupNK7xgSE I1BWmMS0GPJhYT3OAbepS4rDxwq0/pso20130314_010558_003.jpg?psid=1
After
https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pvEZxIkt05-wtTc996FLMGgdO7Z0NusaOI_Haqal9OlawPwSY9QhKHCjujHkW CX4NzaN9aqWooIo/screenshot_004.jpg?psid=1
Before
https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pVmJcObzZ2XvGt-EDR0Q845aBZZB-aPI_DLv5CuhGBb9fOqt3x312dzGcCrviN3G82me3gSsSNOE/pso20130314_010544_000.jpg?psid=1
After
https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1p9tbwrUEgT5Molv3xwLHpju76TGhZ2VwIfILCcQ6Ecctx95p NLidXsFobfuLC2d6EAiECrbrSGuE/screenshot_001.jpg?psid=1[/spoiler-box]
I BLOODY HATE YOU GAMEGUARD YOU SHOULD ALL GO FALL DOWN A DITCH AND DIE GGRAAARRRGH

Or sell your dual GTX 670 and go Xfire on AMD 7970 or a 7990 to run it with Radeon Pro?
Emailing both Sega and Gameguard, along with the other bloggers, still no reply from both - -;
And on the Gameguard website they say they'll respond within a few day.
Final option...Bug Sakai on his blog or twitter?

SociableTyrannosaur
Mar 14, 2013, 04:15 AM
Oh, I should make a note here that if you use SGSSAA you should disable both FXAA and the in-game anti-aliasing as they are redundant and will blur the image considerably.

FXAA CAN catch some leftover aliasing that SGSSAA doesn't touch up very well, but the loss of clarity is a pretty extreme price to pay for that AA. It also doesn't show up in screenshots, for whatever reason.

The in-game AA is just terrible and useless and you should never use it under any circumstances (it's some primitive form of MLAA and is full of artifacts and is generally not very good at what it's supposed to do).

I'm not really clear on this point. Aren't the settings we're using for nvidia inspector overriding the ingame settings anyway?

Also I have a GTX 680 and can run this the game just fine with the extreme settings that OP gives. looks amazing but would also forcing ambient occlusion still look better? I imagine my card is up for it.

Running 1920x1080 on a 24" screen

Zyrusticae
Mar 14, 2013, 11:36 AM
Hmmmm, bug Sakai, you say.... Hmmm...


I'm not really clear on this point. Aren't the settings we're using for nvidia inspector overriding the ingame settings anyway?

Also I have a GTX 680 and can run this the game just fine with the extreme settings that OP gives. looks amazing but would also forcing ambient occlusion still look better? I imagine my card is up for it.

Running 1920x1080 on a 24" screenNo, the in-game AA is a form of post-processing AA that's run on top of the image, including whatever you set in Nvidia Inspector. If, for example, you were to run SGSSAA + driver FXAA + in-game FXAA you would end up with a blurry mess because you're overlaying two different post-process AA methods ON TOP of SGSSAA.

Ambient occlusion is partially a matter of taste. Try using the Mirror's Edge bits with the setting set to "quality" and see how that works for you (I'd say use "high quality" but even my two GTX 670s in SLI have occasional issues with frame rate at that level - though you might be able to manage if you only use 2x SGSSAA and not 4x like I am). Personally, I really like it and feel that it adds a lot of depth to whatever game it's used in.

Emmie
Mar 14, 2013, 11:58 AM
I was playing around with custom AA settings for this game several months ago. Through messing with NvidiaInspector and Brichan's software, I found a setting that worked for me. It gives me clean visuals with a relatively low performance hit. I made comparison screenshots of the various settings and intended to post them here, but never got around to it. I can post them later, if you like.

SociableTyrannosaur
Mar 14, 2013, 02:07 PM
Hmmmm, bug Sakai, you say.... Hmmm...

No, the in-game AA is a form of post-processing AA that's run on top of the image, including whatever you set in Nvidia Inspector. If, for example, you were to run SGSSAA + driver FXAA + in-game FXAA you would end up with a blurry mess because you're overlaying two different post-process AA methods ON TOP of SGSSAA.

Ambient occlusion is partially a matter of taste. Try using the Mirror's Edge bits with the setting set to "quality" and see how that works for you (I'd say use "high quality" but even my two GTX 670s in SLI have occasional issues with frame rate at that level - though you might be able to manage if you only use 2x SGSSAA and not 4x like I am). Personally, I really like it and feel that it adds a lot of depth to whatever game it's used in.

Ok so how do I go about disabling that? do I just turn the game's quality settings down and retain my normal shaders or what? The game's graphics settings are a single slider and a radio box.

Zyrusticae
Mar 14, 2013, 02:49 PM
Actually, you can disable features individually in the in-game options menu. The second-lowest option on the left side, and anti-aliasing should be somewhere on that list.

SociableTyrannosaur
Mar 14, 2013, 02:52 PM
gotcha. disabling that should also give a slight performance bump I imagine.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 14, 2013, 03:02 PM
gotcha. disabling that should also give a slight performance bump I imagine.

It won't give much of a performance bump tbh. The post-processing method is basically free to use, but it is shitty. It is like a free turd :lol:

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 14, 2013, 03:04 PM
I was playing around with custom AA settings for this game several months ago. Through messing with NvidiaInspector and Brichan's software, I found a setting that worked for me. It gives me clean visuals with a relatively low performance hit. I made comparison screenshots of the various settings and intended to post them here, but never got around to it. I can post them later, if you like.

Go for it. I tested mine using every common method in Nvidia Inspector and SGSSAA looked the best without introducing graphical glitches. If you found a way to get SSAA to work without messing up the lighting, that would be amazing.

Valimer
Mar 14, 2013, 04:37 PM
Does anyone else get shimmering textures? I get it pretty bad and I've done some research but haven't come up with anything that works. Right now I'm forcing AA via nVidia inspector at 8x and 8xSS

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 14, 2013, 04:45 PM
ch
Does anyone else get shimmering textures? I get it pretty bad and I've done some research but haven't come up with anything that works. Right now I'm forcing AA via nVidia inspector at 8x and 8xSS

Well, using a negative LOD without SGSSAA or full scene SSAA will cause that (you are using transparency SSAA). If you are referring to aliasing in the textures, MSAA won't touch that (it only effects the edges of geometry).

Emmie
Mar 15, 2013, 11:57 AM
Sorry, I totally forgot about my post when I got home. I'll try to remember to post my screenshots tonight.


Go for it. I tested mine using every common method in Nvidia Inspector and SGSSAA looked the best without introducing graphical glitches. If you found a way to get SSAA to work without messing up the lighting, that would be amazing.

Actually, I use 8xCSAA. The effect does blur the image a bit and introduces some minor glitches in the lighting, but overall I'm pretty happy with the way it looks. I tried various levels of MSAA, CSAA, SSAA, Combined AA (I forget what it's called offhand), and FXAA using different AA compatibility settings. I found that 8xCSAA gave me the best combination of quality and system performance for both my gaming PC and my guest gaming PC.

I'll have to test out your settings. I'm curious to see how they compare with the ones I use.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 15, 2013, 12:21 PM
Sorry, I totally forgot about my post when I got home. I'll try to remember to post my screenshots tonight.



Actually, I use 8xCSAA. The effect does blur the image a bit and introduces some minor glitches in the lighting, but overall I'm pretty happy with the way it looks. I tried various levels of MSAA, CSAA, SSAA, Combined AA (I forget what it's called offhand), and FXAA using different AA compatibility settings. I found that 8xCSAA gave me the best combination of quality and system performance for both my gaming PC and my guest gaming PC.

I'll have to test out your settings. I'm curious to see how they compare with the ones I use.

The game has too many cases of texture aliasing for me haha. But hey, what you prefer is better for you.

Emmie
Mar 15, 2013, 03:25 PM
I tried out your settings and I found them to be very close to the ones I was using in terms of aliasing and blurring reduction. However, your settings were superior in terms of color reproduction. I assume the use of CSAA caused this problem in my settings. I'll switch to using MSAA from now on.

It's odd that MSAA does so well in this game now. When I was first testing out all the modes of MSAA, I don't remember it correcting the aliasing nearly as well as it does now. I wonder if this has something to do with the NVIDIA drivers, as I updated my video card drivers recently. I wish I had taken screenshots of what the game looked like with MSAA back when I was doing my original comparisons.

I used AA compatibility bit 0x004D18C5 for most of my pictures, except for one of them. 0x004D18C5 appears to be a bit sharper than 0x004050F0. I used an LOD Bias of 0.000 on all the pictures (I think). Didn't really notice a difference between -1.000 and 0.000, so I left the setting at 0.000.

The 1st picture was taken just to show that the default AA settings had no effect on the aliasing.

32xQ CSAA+FXAA - with in-game AA enabled (default AA settings)
http://www.abload.de/img/1pso232xqcsaafxaa-defucjag.jpg

8x CSAA+FXAA - 8x Supersampling - with in-game AA enabled (0x004D18C5)
http://www.abload.de/img/2pso28xcsaafxaa-withieskqc.jpg

8x CSAA+FXAA - 8x Supersampling - no in-game AA (0x004D18C5)
http://www.abload.de/img/3pso28xcsaafxaa-noin-lrjng.jpg

4x MSAA - 4x SGSSAA - no in-game AA (0x004D18C5)
http://www.abload.de/img/4pso24xmsaa-noin-gamed4ja7.png

4x MSAA - 4x SGSSAA - no in-game AA (0x004050F0)
http://www.abload.de/img/4pso24xmsaa-noin-game2fk6h.png

4x MSAA - 8x Supersampling - no in-game AA (0x004D18C5)
http://www.abload.de/img/4pso24xmsaa-noin-game56kkn.png

8x CSAA - 8x SGSSAA - no in-game AA (0x004D18C5)
http://www.abload.de/img/4pso28xcsaa-noin-game0gjer.png

8x CSAA - 8x Supersampling - no in-game AA (0x004D18C5)
http://www.abload.de/img/4pso28xcsaa-noin-gameqkk7f.jpg

16x CSAA - 8x Supersampling - no in-game AA (0x004D18C5)
http://www.abload.de/img/5pso216xcsaa-noin-gamkekle.jpg

Zyrusticae
Mar 15, 2013, 04:50 PM
FYI, SGSSAA does nothing if you don't have the exact same level of MSAA running at the same time. The SGSSAA actually overrides the MSAA as it is its own thing. AFAIK CSAA + SGSSAA merely runs CSAA as SGSSAA is very specific about the requirements.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 15, 2013, 05:00 PM
FYI, SGSSAA does nothing if you don't have the exact same level of MSAA running at the same time. The SGSSAA actually overrides the MSAA as it is its own thing. AFAIK CSAA + SGSSAA merely runs CSAA as SGSSAA is very specific about the requirements.

It runs off of the number of samples. I can't remember which one, but it CAN work with CSAA, idk why you would want to though haha.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 15, 2013, 05:51 PM
Oops double post lol

Emmie
Mar 15, 2013, 07:18 PM
FYI, SGSSAA does nothing if you don't have the exact same level of MSAA running at the same time. The SGSSAA actually overrides the MSAA as it is its own thing. AFAIK CSAA + SGSSAA merely runs CSAA as SGSSAA is very specific about the requirements.

I did not know that. That explains why SGSSAA never did anything for me.

Thanks for the info!

Valimer
Mar 16, 2013, 03:59 AM
ch

Well, using a negative LOD without SGSSAA or full scene SSAA will cause that (you are using transparency SSAA). If you are referring to aliasing in the textures, MSAA won't touch that (it only effects the edges of geometry).

I've read that LOD set to Clamp is supposed to solve the issue, but it doesn't work for me. I figured it was some combination of setting between the AA and anistropic filtering that was causing the issue but I can't find a combination that works.

It doesn't bother me too much but I was mostly curious if anyone else was getting shimmering textures as well.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 16, 2013, 11:36 AM
I've read that LOD set to Clamp is supposed to solve the issue, but it doesn't work for me. I figured it was some combination of setting between the AA and anistropic filtering that was causing the issue but I can't find a combination that works.

It doesn't bother me too much but I was mostly curious if anyone else was getting shimmering textures as well.

Setting LOD to clamp would force an LOD of 0 or higher, so that would work. I guess your issue is different. Can you post a screenshot of your settings?

Valimer
Mar 18, 2013, 03:42 AM
I switched to your settings with the same result, then switched on LOD to Clamp with the same results.

http://imgur.com/DK2KPC0

Not really sure how to use spoilers ;>_> Edit: picture didnt show, haha. I r noob. http://imgur.com/DK2KPC0

Maybe I should watch some 1080p videos of other people playing to make sure I'm not just crazy.

Sizustar
Mar 18, 2013, 04:11 AM
I switched to your settings with the same result, then switched on LOD to Clamp with the same results.

http://imgur.com/DK2KPC0

Not really sure how to use spoilers ;>_> Edit: picture didnt show, haha. I r noob. http://imgur.com/DK2KPC0

Maybe I should watch some 1080p videos of other people playing to make sure I'm not just crazy.

Can you record your own gameplay and post it online?

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 18, 2013, 08:56 AM
I switched to your settings with the same result, then switched on LOD to Clamp with the same results.

http://imgur.com/DK2KPC0

Not really sure how to use spoilers ;>_> Edit: picture didnt show, haha. I r noob. http://imgur.com/DK2KPC0

Maybe I should watch some 1080p videos of other people playing to make sure I'm not just crazy.

You aren't using the compatibility bits :-P.

The value is 0x004050F0 (I have a 2 in the picture, but it doesn't do anything).
Here is an image with the important part in the red box. Only change the thing in the red box, I am on my laptop and have some other settings because of it.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.abload.de/img/nvidia_20130318_11273hfo0g.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Valimer
Mar 18, 2013, 08:20 PM
You aren't using the compatibility bits :-P.

The value is 0x004050F0 (I have a 2 in the picture, but it doesn't do anything).
Here is an image with the important part in the red box. Only change the thing in the red box, I am on my laptop and have some other settings because of it.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.abload.de/img/nvidia_20130318_11273hfo0g.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Is that in your list or did you input it manually?

EDIT: It appears it worked! Thanks man!

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 18, 2013, 10:47 PM
Is that in your list or did you input it manually?

EDIT: It appears it worked! Thanks man!

Manually haha. The purpose of the thread was for that value :p.

Chik'Tikka
Mar 19, 2013, 07:46 PM
hmm, anyone got any suggestions for best AA with a GT 540m? i was using FXAA and 4x Multi (FXAA, as nice as it is by applying itself in post processing to reduce overhead, it doesn't show in screenshots for the same reason and would like to drop it if there's a better alternative)
+^_^+
EDIT: minor OC to 765 core, 1530 shader, 1013 mem +^_^+

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 19, 2013, 08:14 PM
hmm, anyone got any suggestions for best AA with a GT 540m? i was using FXAA and 4x Multi (FXAA, as nice as it is by applying itself in post processing to reduce overhead, it doesn't show in screenshots for the same reason and would like to drop it if there's a better alternative)
+^_^+
EDIT: minor OC to 765 core, 1530 shader, 1013 mem +^_^+

A 540m isn't very powerful. It depends on the resolution you play at. With that card, I am assuming 1366x768. You can TRY running 2x MSAA + 2x SGSSAA, but it might perform poorly. I can post a screenshot of how NI should look when I get home.

Chik'Tikka
Mar 19, 2013, 08:20 PM
A 540m isn't very powerful. It depends on the resolution you play at. With that card, I am assuming 1366x768. You can TRY running 2x MSAA + 2x SGSSAA, but it might perform poorly. I can post a screenshot of how NV should look when I get home. I will edit this post.

well, i tried what was on the 1st page, 4x everything, and surprisingly it's running smoother then before (less sudden drops and consistent 40-50 fps in moderate action spots), and my pics look better, but the overall AA isn't as good as the last stuff i was using+^_^+
figured I'd get an answer like yours so i guess I'll just play around a bit and see what i feel is a good balance maintaining 30+FPS and good AA+^_^+

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 19, 2013, 09:00 PM
well, i tried what was on the 1st page, 4x everything, and surprisingly it's running smoother then before (less sudden drops and consistent 40-50 fps in moderate action spots), and my pics look better, but the overall AA isn't as good as the last stuff i was using+^_^+
figured I'd get an answer like yours so i guess I'll just play around a bit and see what i feel is a good balance maintaining 30+FPS and good AA+^_^+

If the AA wasn't as good, then you did something wrong haha. That is one of the best AA methods for IQ you can possibly use.

Copy the stuff I have in the red boxes exactly. I changed my settings to reflect what you should use.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.abload.de/img/nvidia_20130319_21572zyowm.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Chik'Tikka
Mar 20, 2013, 01:37 AM
durr herr durr i had 50F2, not 50F0, the 4x version looks the same, slight better performance, the 2x one just too jaggy for me though+^_^+ I'll run at the lower frame rate to keep it shiny, TY for the awesome thread+^_^+ i will have new rig built someday and it'll help alot!!

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 20, 2013, 09:05 AM
durr herr durr i had 50F2, not 50F0, the 4x version looks the same, slight better performance, the 2x one just too jaggy for me though+^_^+ I'll run at the lower frame rate to keep it shiny, TY for the awesome thread+^_^+ i will have new rig built someday and it'll help alot!!

Make sure you turn OFF the in-game AA AND your driver FXAA. It is overkill and will only blur your image significantly!

Chik'Tikka
Mar 20, 2013, 06:02 PM
Make sure you turn OFF the in-game AA AND your driver FXAA. It is overkill and will only blur your image significantly!

yep, in game AA slows everything up anyway, it's stupid that that's the only thing i turn off and pop i go up 15 FPS, then i use setup on this thread and barely take any hit+^_^+
SEGAC for the win+^_^+
Speaking of, how well will a GTX 660m perform? helping a friend set up but don't wanna break anything for her+^_^+

Sizustar
Mar 26, 2013, 12:09 AM
yep, in game AA slows everything up anyway, it's stupid that that's the only thing i turn off and pop i go up 15 FPS, then i use setup on this thread and barely take any hit+^_^+
SEGAC for the win+^_^+
Speaking of, how well will a GTX 660m perform? helping a friend set up but don't wanna break anything for her+^_^+

Not really recomended, as it's only about equal to a 9800GTX or GTX 450
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 26, 2013, 12:22 AM
yep, in game AA slows everything up anyway, it's stupid that that's the only thing i turn off and pop i go up 15 FPS, then i use setup on this thread and barely take any hit+^_^+
SEGAC for the win+^_^+
Speaking of, how well will a GTX 660m perform? helping a friend set up but don't wanna break anything for her+^_^+

Sorry never noticed the question in your reply haha. My laptop has a gtx 660m and I can run 2xSGSSAA at 1080p in this game and it stays well above 30 fps, around 60fps.

Also, the 660m is more or less an equivalent of the gtx 550 ti in real world performance. It is probably the best for your dollar as far as mobile graphics processors go.

Alisha
Mar 26, 2013, 02:00 AM
well whether you notice them or not depends on screen size and resolution. If you are on a 15" 1080p screen, the ingame aa will probably work fine for you. Ultimately, if you don't notice it, it doesn't really matter :p

To answer your question, maxed settings won't get rid of them all and this works on max settings. You need a powerful PC to run this though.

my pc specs are
[SPOILER-BOX]Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.130104-1431)
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3330 CPU @ 3.00GHz
8078.934MB
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660(VRAM 4044 MB) 8.17.0013.0142[/SPOILER-BOX]

my display is a 32" samsung LED hdtv. i'd like to have the game look as good as possible that my pc can handle.

Sizustar
Mar 26, 2013, 02:00 AM
Sorry never noticed the question in your reply haha. My laptop has a gtx 660m and I can run 2xSGSSAA at 1080p in this game and it stays well above 30 fps, around 60fps.

Also, the 660m is more or less an equivalent of the gtx 550 ti in real world performance. It is probably the best for your dollar as far as mobile graphics processors go.

True, you won't know till you try it. Like on my old 460, with AO and AA, FPS was below 30fps, but on my 670, it's above 60fps.
So if possible, install Frap or a similiar program, and try it out.
You're not likely going to break anything, unless you go overboard on Overvolting, which is not related to AO and AA.

DreXxiN
Mar 27, 2013, 06:58 PM
Hmm, for some reason this lowers my sharpness quite a bit. I'll expiriment with it.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 27, 2013, 07:45 PM
Hmm, for some reason this lowers my sharpness quite a bit. I'll expiriment with it.

Does it look the same as my screenshot, or worse?

DreXxiN
Mar 27, 2013, 07:57 PM
Around the same, it's possibly more noticeable than usual because I'm playing on a 47" HDTV.

Sizustar
Mar 27, 2013, 09:20 PM
Here's my screenshot and video on my GPU and setting.
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44927.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44928.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44942.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44926.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44952.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44949.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44958.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOX8VYofd_o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQZbPJbkHUE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIpLWn-zpyk

Sizustar
Mar 28, 2013, 12:55 PM
Trying out FXAA...Don't really like it

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45214.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Zyrusticae
Mar 28, 2013, 01:11 PM
Yeah, not much point to using FXAA if you're already using SGSSAA. All it'll really do is blur the image a bit and hide some leftover aliasing.

I really wish there was some way to fix the hair seams without turning off AO. As it is, I'm disabling it just because those seams bother me way too much now.

Chik'Tikka
Mar 28, 2013, 02:06 PM
FXAA is more for low end machines, it has very little overhead (by like a third) as it does it's AA after the frame is rendered, it's a post-process effect, which is why it doesn't show in pics+^_^+

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 28, 2013, 02:42 PM
my pc specs are
[SPOILER-BOX]Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.130104-1431)
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3330 CPU @ 3.00GHz
8078.934MB
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660(VRAM 4044 MB) 8.17.0013.0142[/SPOILER-BOX]

my display is a 32" samsung LED hdtv. i'd like to have the game look as good as possible that my pc can handle.

That PC can definitely handle this. You MIGHT be able to use 4xSGSSAA (probably can just fine), but 2xSGSSAA will most definitely work for you.

Is your TV 720p or 1080p? If it is 720p, you can definitely use 4xSGSSAA.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 28, 2013, 02:46 PM
Here's my screenshot and video on my GPU and setting.
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44927.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44928.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44942.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44926.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44952.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44949.png
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up44958.png[/SPOILER-BOX]


That is definitely blurrier than mine. Double check to make sure you set everything exactly correct. You NEED to use the same multiple of MSAA as you do SGSSAA. CSAA isn't recommended either. Are you by any chance using SLI AA by accident? Cause that can mess it up as well. I don't mean that this won't work with SLI, just that their is an option for SLI AA and it will mess it up. Make sure that is off.

Oh yeah, make sure you have the in-game anti-aliasing turned off. You can turn it off in the options menu in-game.

Sizustar
Mar 28, 2013, 08:08 PM
FXAA is more for low end machines, it has very little overhead (by like a third) as it does it's AA after the frame is rendered, it's a post-process effect, which is why it doesn't show in pics+^_^+

It can show up, but you have to take a screenshot in windowed mode with alt+prt screen.
I've also heard of people being successful with using MSI Afterburner with specific setting though.


That is definitely blurrier than mine. Double check to make sure you set everything exactly correct. You NEED to use the same multiple of MSAA as you do SGSSAA. CSAA isn't recommended either. Are you by any chance using SLI AA by accident? Cause that can mess it up as well. I don't mean that this won't work with SLI, just that their is an option for SLI AA and it will mess it up. Make sure that is off.

Oh yeah, make sure you have the in-game anti-aliasing turned off. You can turn it off in the options menu in-game.

I'm using similiar setting to yours, except with AO enabled, and I have AA turned off in user.pso2
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://img.techpowerup.org/130328/nvidia_20130329_091037.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 29, 2013, 03:33 AM
I'm using similiar setting to yours, except with AO enabled, and I have AA turned off in user.pso2
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://img.techpowerup.org/130328/nvidia_20130329_091037.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Btw, if you didn't read all the posts, using the mirrors edge values looks much better than warmonger. Also, the settings do blur a little bit, but yours looks worse for some reason. I personally like the softer look it gives in this game though. Unfortunately, this is the best option available. This is a game where SGSSAA just doesn't work perfectly, and neither does MSAA, CSAA, FSAA, AND HSAA. And to top that off, gameguard blocks injectors so you can't use the SMAA injector or SweetFX. It is like Sega desperately wants jaggies to be in PSO2 lol

You might be able to downsample. My monitor doesn't play well with downsampling so I don't use it, but you could try it out.

Sizustar
Mar 29, 2013, 03:44 AM
Btw, if you didn't read all the posts, using the mirrors edge values looks much better than warmonger. Also, the settings do blur a little bit, but yours looks worse for some reason. I personally like the softer look it gives in this game though. Unfortunately, this is the best option available. This is a game where SGSSAA just doesn't work perfectly, and neither does MSAA, CSAA, FSAA, AND HSAA. And to top that off, gameguard blocks injectors so you can't use the SMAA injector or SweetFX. It is like Sega desperately wants jaggies to be in PSO2 lol

You might be able to downsample. My monitor doesn't play well with downsampling so I don't use it, but you could try it out.

Downsampling? I'll take a look at it.
But I am using the mirror's edge AO
If I go to 8x SMAA and 8x SGSSAA, my FPS goes from 60~70 to 30~40.
Maybe if I go SLI, or get a stronger card then my current gtx 670 4gb, I can try higher AA.
But SweetFX do work with the new character creator, like the origional one.
The main problem is gameguard not recognizing the injector as none game changing mechanic.
I've wrote to them and Sega, and no respone still.
http://global.nprotect.com/support/contactus.php

Only Radeon Pro can work with SweetFX in the main game.

Using AA+AO+SweetFX on the new character creator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jv2VC0YDSs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jv2VC0YDSs

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 30, 2013, 01:46 AM
Downsampling? I'll take a look at it.
But I am using the mirror's edge AO
If I go to 8x SMAA and 8x SGSSAA, my FPS goes from 60~70 to 30~40.
Maybe if I go SLI, or get a stronger card then my current gtx 670 4gb, I can try higher AA.
But SweetFX do work with the new character creator, like the origional one.
The main problem is gameguard not recognizing the injector as none game changing mechanic.
I've wrote to them and Sega, and no respone still.
http://global.nprotect.com/support/contactus.php

Only Radeon Pro can work with SweetFX in the main game.

Using AA+AO+SweetFX on the new character creator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jv2VC0YDSs

Yeah, 8x SGSSAA is pretty intense, and unnecessary IMO. I can run it, but I chose not to because I can't tell the difference and prefer to keep the heat down (I have SLI and prefer not to play in an 80 degree environment lol). I don't use ambient occlusion though. I think the games baked AO shading is good enough.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 30, 2013, 02:57 AM
So, I decided to play for the first time since the last update, and I found my game to be MUCH blurrier using SGSSAA than it was in the past. I tried multiple different things in NI and nothing really fixed it. It is rather upsetting :(

I can try to fix it up and possibly get better quality than I had before. It takes a lot of time though.

Edit: LOL I forgot that I did a driver update and that will remove any values you customize since they aren't official. It looks the same as before now that I fixed that problem. It does blur a bit, but unless Sega decides to incorporate real anti-aliasing into their engine, or does some engine overhaul which allows me to create a value for FSAA, SGSSAA is the best option even though it blurs a little in this game.

Zyrusticae
Mar 30, 2013, 03:38 AM
I should note that downsampling from any resolution past 2560x1440 is going to make your screenshots enormous in size and possibly crash your game if you try to take screenshots (or the screenshots will just fail to get written in the first place).

If you like to record or take screenshots, SGSSAA is definitely the way to go - blurring or not!

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 30, 2013, 08:04 PM
Big update. I DID get it to work better than before (sometimes when you are constantly comparing IQ, you just start seeing awful images and then a good one looks just as good as other good ones). I took a break from it, and compared the good values I found last night. I found one that DOES look better. It fixes the slight contrast issue that causes that blurred look. I will update the title to reflect the original post has been edited once I finish.

Chik'Tikka
Mar 30, 2013, 10:12 PM
Cool, i'll try it out now+^_^+

just let you know, my 540m (as weak as it is) OC to 765 CPU, 1025 mem, and 1530 shader is able to use 2x SGSSAA and maintain above 30 FPS almost everywhere in the game at 1080p, so if your looking to use this over FXAA or the in game AA but don't mind going below 60 FPS then know that you can use weaker/older GPUs and get fantastic results thanks Rhino for the awesome tut+^_^+

Zyrusticae
Mar 31, 2013, 12:52 AM
Alright, after getting sick of the hair seams but also getting sick of just not having any AO, I started testing a bunch of other AO bits once again. Of the ones that work, here are my findings:

Mirror's Edge: Medium darkness, most physically accurate, does not ignore fog or particle effects, has hair seams
Unreal Tournament III: High darkness, very high AO radius, ignores fog and particle effects (and even clips through load screens), does not have hair seams
Mass Effect: High darkness, high AO radius, not sure about fog/particle effects (didn't get that far), buggy as hell and shows hair seams
Gears of War: Extreme darkness, high AO radius, ignores fog and particle effects (loading screen included), shows hair seams
X-Men Origins: Wolverine: Same as UTIII, except darker
Warmonger: Medium-high darkness, very high AO radius, does not ignore fog and particle effects, shows hair seams
Hawken: Low darkness, medium AO radius, ignores fog and particle effects (including clipping through load screens), does not show hair seams, jitters between overall darkness values

So from what I can gather, whatever causes the AO to take into account fog and particle effects is the same as what causes the hair seams. Either you take the hair seams in exchange for AO properly applying before fog or you take the AO showing up through fog in exchange for not seeing any hair seams. There's also no happy "middle ground" between barely-there AO and stupid-dark AO for the ones that don't show hair seams.

Pick your poison. :)

Update: The ones that don't show hair seams also don't show up in screenshots.

Sizustar
Mar 31, 2013, 07:36 AM
OK, did some more test with different type of setting.

Default no AA
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45828.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Default AA[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45829.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Lavandy Default Extreme Setting 0x004110C[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45825.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Old Setting 0x0040D0F0[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45826.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

New Setting 0x004010F0 [SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45827.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Lavandy Setting Tweak #1 0x004018C0[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45830.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Lavandy's setting tweak #2 0x004110C[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45834.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Lavandy seems to use 0x004018C0 and 0x004110C1 for his AA.
It seems to give me a bit more FPS, you guys can try it too?

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 31, 2013, 08:22 AM
To tweak that lavendy setting, I found that using F instead of C is significantly sharper. I also don't believe the 8 does anything lol. I can test it out when I get on my computer later. I saw a good bit of blur using those settings in the past, which prompted me to create some myself. It felt like he didn't really know what he was doing (but technically I don't either :p)

Pyrii
Mar 31, 2013, 08:31 AM
Really having trouble noticing the difference between the last 2

Sizustar
Mar 31, 2013, 08:34 AM
To tweak that lavendy setting, I found that using F instead of C is significantly sharper. I also don't believe the 8 does anything lol. I can test it out when I get on my computer later. I saw a good bit of blur using those settings in the past, which prompted me to create some myself. It felt like he didn't really know what he was doing (but technically I don't either :p)

Well, his setting...is really odd.
But he doesn't use AA. and since his GPU is so powerful(GTX 690 and GTX Titan) I don't think his setting is good for general usage, which is why I'm asking for more people to try it out too.
So 0x004018F0 ?


Really having trouble noticing the difference between the last 2

Their supposedly different Bit, but I can't really see the difference in them.

Pyrii
Mar 31, 2013, 08:50 AM
Well, his setting...is really odd.
But he doesn't use AA. and since his GPU is so powerful(GTX 690 and GTX Titan) I don't think his setting is good for general usage, which is why I'm asking for more people to try it out too.
So 0x004018F0 ?



Their supposedly different Bit, but I can't really see the difference in them.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/16115
Still can't see a real difference. I can't find a website that allows you to compare more than 2 screenshots tho

Sizustar
Mar 31, 2013, 01:09 PM
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/16115
Still can't see a real difference. I can't find a website that allows you to compare more than 2 screenshots tho

And...?
As I stated, I was trying out different bit from lavendy and posted my conclusion, and is asking other for help.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 31, 2013, 01:31 PM
OK, did some more test with different type of setting.

Default no AA
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45828.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Default AA[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45829.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Lavandy Default Extreme Setting 0x004110C[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45825.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Old Setting 0x0040D0F0[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45826.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

New Setting 0x004010F0 [SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45827.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Lavandy Setting Tweak #1 0x004018C0[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45830.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Lavandy's setting tweak #2 0x004110C[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up45834.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Lavandy seems to use 0x004018C0 and 0x004110C1 for his AA.
It seems to give me a bit more FPS, you guys can try it too?

Not really a good comparison. In one of them, you didn't have ambient occlusion on (or somehow the AA made the AO not work?) and the background environment is different. It would be best to take comparison shots in a never changing environment, that displays as many graphical options as possible. I like where I took the screenshots because it is filled with texture aliasing, alternate light sources, dark shadows, colors, and alpha textures. Not saying you NEED to take the shots in the same place I took them though. I can test out the different values and I will post comparison pics when I am done.

Also, I think that having ambient occlusion OFF is the best way to compare these shots. I prefer to see the game in a more vanilla state when trying to view IQ of SGSSAA. It is easier to spot deficiencies, IMO.

Preposterous Rhino
Mar 31, 2013, 01:55 PM
Comparison shots

Easiest way to spot the differences between the higher quality values is in the deepness of the shadows. Look at the shading within the cherry blossom tree (if that is what it is called lol). Or look at the shadow cast on elevator teleporting thing.

0x004018F0
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.abload.de/img/0x004018f0xllw6.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

0x004018C0
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.abload.de/img/0x004018c036yms.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

0x084010F0

(The 8 position in this value is something I found when I first started testing it. Every other value essentially broke the value in that category, except the 8. I never used it because I could not discern a difference. Maybe someone else can?)
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.abload.de/img/0x084010f0x8za4.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Edit: I can see a difference now. I makes it ever so slightly worse lol. Minor contrast decrease. The problem with SGSSAA in this game is that it just can't quite match the right contrast when compared to no AA. It is REALLY close using 0x004010F0 though.

Also, as I thought, the value right before the F doesn't do anything to the image. The only values that truly effect the image are marked with an uppercase "X". 0x0XX0X0X0. The first X doesn't do anything beneficial however, so 0 is best. Also, performance was the same with all of these values for me. Afterburner showed the same framerate and GPU usage for me (SLI gtx 560 ti 2gb cards).

Edit 2: I should also note that you should not compare any of these to my original screenshot in the first post. I accidentally had the drawing settings set to 1 in the launcher (probably a mis-click I hadn't noticed). Trust me when I say that the 8 doesn't make a difference.

Comparison here (http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/16183)

Comparison between the 2 incase you want to anyway lol (ignore model and texture details though).

Alisha
Apr 1, 2013, 10:18 PM
That PC can definitely handle this. You MIGHT be able to use 4xSGSSAA (probably can just fine), but 2xSGSSAA will most definitely work for you.

Is your TV 720p or 1080p? If it is 720p, you can definitely use 4xSGSSAA.

its 720p

Alisha
Apr 1, 2013, 10:32 PM
heres a screenshot using your settings
http://i.minus.com/i1H2QRZGo1nh0.png

Alisha
Apr 2, 2013, 04:13 AM
using the settings from the image in the first post have made my game look blurry and less crisp is there anything i can do to make it look crisp again?

Meji
Apr 2, 2013, 04:48 AM
I should note that downsampling from any resolution past 2560x1440 is going to make your screenshots enormous in size and possibly crash your game if you try to take screenshots (or the screenshots will just fail to get written in the first place). I can fill in on this, in case people were wondering.

Whenever I decide to take screenshots, I force my Full-HD monitor into 4640x2610px for better quality (you can do this through the nVidia Control Panel). I've set the game to put down my saves as .PNG (for lossless quality).
I run my game at the highest settings you can come by, and I've manually set up all of the AA-settings as far as they go (x16, etc).

Whenever I take a screenshot, the game freezes for about 5 seconds, and the total file size ends up somewhere between 10MB~15MB. Then again, I'm on a very high-end computer, running with SSD's instead of HDD's. So I haven't got a single clue on how long it would take to write the files to a HDD.

Funny thing to know; whenever the game freezes for a few seconds due to screenshots, so does everything around you. Then it takes a while for the enemies/bosses to sync up with you again. I.e, you can't die when taking screenshots.

Sizustar
Apr 2, 2013, 04:56 AM
using the settings from the image in the first post have made my game look blurry and less crisp is there anything i can do to make it look crisp again?

Do you have the ingame AA ON?
And there's also the lavandy AA setting that you can try.

Alisha
Apr 2, 2013, 05:17 AM
i had in game AA off. i reverted to original setting but ill give the lavandy AA setting a try later.

Sizustar
Apr 2, 2013, 05:26 AM
i had in game AA off. i reverted to original setting but ill give the lavandy AA setting a try later.

Good luck~ I'll be trying the various AO setting later, and posting the screenshot.
So Shop lobby is best for screenshop.

Alisha
Apr 2, 2013, 07:00 AM
for comparisons sake.
with OP's settings
http://i.minus.com/i1H2QRZGo1nh0.png

without
http://i.minus.com/iStbvPOPANji2.png

DreXxiN
Apr 2, 2013, 12:11 PM
Do you have the ingame AA ON?
And there's also the lavandy AA setting that you can try.

I'll try this as I'm looking forward to a "crisp" look as well.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 2, 2013, 01:17 PM
using the settings from the image in the first post have made my game look blurry and less crisp is there anything i can do to make it look crisp again?

Is it blurrier than my image? If so, make sure you have FXAA and in-game AA OFF. Make sure you are using MSAA and not CSAA, and that you are using the same multiple of SGSSAA as MSAA. Also, using the correct LOD bias helps a little.

2xMSAA + 2xSGSSAA + -0.500 LOD bias and set to allow
4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA + -1.000 LOD bias and set to allow
8xMSAA + 8xSGSSAA + -1.500 LOD bias and set to allow

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 2, 2013, 01:19 PM
for comparisons sake.
with OP's settings
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.minus.com/i1H2QRZGo1nh0.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

without
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.minus.com/iStbvPOPANji2.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

That looks worse than it should tbh. Also, not a huge deal, but you have the event lighting in one and not the other :p

I am gonna update my first post with a screenshot using the correct in-game options. I accidentally had the drawing set on 1 in the launcher for that screenshot lol.

Edit: I took screenshots in the same location, and it does hurt the textures pretty badly. I can keep trying stuff out, but I think this game is doomed to be aliased lol

Edit 2: I tested essentially everything I could. Let me detail exactly what happens in each category.

The first 0 (0)x004010F0 MUST BE A 0. Anything other than a 0 breaks every game.
The second 0, 0x (0) 04010F0 Changes absolutely nothing in this game. I have used every single value in the category and nothing changes at all.
The third 0, 0x0 (0) 4010F0, is the best option. Every value except an 8 breaks the AA, and makes it do absolutely nothing. An 8 there looks slightly worse than a 0, so I keep it 0.
The 4, 0x00 (4) 010F0, is a very obvious best choice in that category. Most other numbers will break the games geometry. If you want to try a different number, you will laugh at the way the ships look lol.
The fourth, fifth, and sixth 0s, 0x004 (0) 1 (0) F (0), also do absolutely nothing in this game.
The 1, 0x0040 (1) 0F0, I believe, controls the way the anti-aliasing works together with the games shaders and tells the drivers how to work with the game. Different values yield different results, (every even value will break the lighting, trust me when I say it isn't hard to spot lol).
The F, 0x004010 (F) 0, controls another aspect of the shaders, if my observation is correct. The best appearance out of these values were from C-F (I think F looks sharpest and closest to the proper contrast). Numerous values in this category created horrible flicker on geometry in the game.

I thought I would provide this information just in case anybody wants to try this out for themselves. I am by no means a professional, or even super knowledgeable about the topic. I went into it understanding what the value needed to do and how it controls it, and I made observations on what exactly this does for this specific game. I would love it if someone would hit the nail on the head and prove me wrong haha. As of right now, I believe the value 0x004010F0 yields the best IQ. Based on my observations, Lavendy performed a lot of guess work and picked stuff that he thought looked good enough. Again, that is based on my observations, which could be entirely wrong haha.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 2, 2013, 07:06 PM
I'm about to have 3 posts in a row :p

Anyway, for the people who can't stand the blur, you CAN use MSAA with these settings. You will not get any flicker from it like in the past. You can also you transparency supersampling with it just fine. It will reduce jagged edges, however, this game has an incredibly large amount of texture aliasing due to the low polygon count on a lot of objects (i.e. the floor) and the multitude of colors applied on these. It IS however better than nothing, and I definitely prefer it to the post-processing AA. The deferred lighting also causes MSAA to not work nearly as well as it should. Probably why they didn't include it. For a low end computer, the IQ to performance ratio is most definitely not worth it. I will edit a screenshot into this post and the first post for anyone who wants to see it.

Edit:
The screenshot location is an extreme case of texture aliasing. In most areas, it is not this bad. I only took the shot here for comparison purposes with the other screens.

8xMSAA + 8x transparency supersampling
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.abload.de/img/8xmsaa7ayy6.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Alisha
Apr 2, 2013, 08:18 PM
that picture looks really good what exactly are the settings you used?

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 2, 2013, 09:08 PM
that picture looks really good what exactly are the settings you used?

If you are referring to the MSAA settings, this.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.techpowerup.org/130402/nvidia_20130402_220815.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

zegun~kun
Apr 3, 2013, 10:05 AM
^
using that setting with the 8x SGSSAA + -1.5 LOD bias + AO = total eye candy
but makes it so laggy even though im using GTX670 x___x

here's how it looks like
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/SkVgYri.jpg[/spoiler-box]

update:
as a zondeel spammer that loves lilipa planet...
this setting makes me lagging too much.. like, 12 FPS x__x

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 3, 2013, 10:23 AM
^
using that setting with the 8x SGSSAA + -1.5 LOD bias + AO = total eye candy
but makes it so laggy even though im using GTX670 x___x

here's how it looks like
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/SkVgYri.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Funny you say that. I tried 8xSGSSAA for the first time in PSO and it actually looked signicantly sharper. I couldn't log in cause of maintenance though lol. Also, 2xSGSSAA blurs very badly. My theory is that the higher you go, the sharper it gets, which isn't all that common of an occurence. I am going to test some other values with different multiples and will post my findings when I get the chance.

Meji
Apr 3, 2013, 10:32 AM
While we're on this kind of topic, does anyone know if there's a way to manually add a Depth of Field (DoF) / Bokeh to the game?
I highly doubt it myself, but just curious (I've been googling around a little, but to no avail).

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 3, 2013, 10:38 AM
While we're on this kind of topic, does anyone know if there's a way to manually add a Depth of Field (DoF) / Bokeh to the game?
I highly doubt it myself, but just curious (I've been googling around a little, but to no avail).

Highly doubt it. If there is, it would be through DLL injection (enb series is the only one I can think of) and this game uses game guard, so no chance of getting that to work.

Pyrii
Apr 3, 2013, 10:48 AM
The game itself has a DoF option but it does nothing. Or it does something with no visual changes whatsoever. Funnily, I noticed the new CC Demo has DoF effects going on during the benchmark.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 3, 2013, 11:41 AM
The game itself has a DoF option but it does nothing. Or it does something with no visual changes whatsoever. Funnily, I noticed the new CC Demo has DoF effects going on during the benchmark.

Yeah, I can't see the effect working either haha. It might be very subtle in the distance, but his game HARDLY has long view distances lol

Sizustar
Apr 3, 2013, 12:40 PM
^
using that setting with the 8x SGSSAA + -1.5 LOD bias + AO = total eye candy
but makes it so laggy even though im using GTX670 x___x

here's how it looks like
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/SkVgYri.jpg[/spoiler-box]

update:
as a zondeel spammer that loves lilipa planet...
this setting makes me lagging too much.. like, 12 FPS x__x

That's odd, with that type of setting, I'm getting at least 30~45 FPS though
And I have a GTX 670 too, but I prefer to game at 60FPS, so switched back to 4x.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 3, 2013, 12:58 PM
So, I have been playing around with more settings. Quick note for anybody who wants to do the same. Don't use SuperVCAA...you will have to force restart your system. The game will run at like 0.00001 fps (not a joke, and not an exageration). It murders your memory bandwidth (I have 2gb GDDR5 and it crushed it trying to play the opening video lol). I changed the behavior flag to only map the superVCAA to multisampling, but it still maxed out my vram, although I could get in the game (has the same issues as FSAA, but looks better than it somehow). I am still gonna play around with behavior flags to see if I can fix up the issues with SGSSAA.

Sizustar
Apr 3, 2013, 01:40 PM
So, I have been playing around with more settings. Quick note for anybody who wants to do the same. Don't use SuperVCAA...you will have to force restart your system. The game will run at like 0.00001 fps (not a joke, and not an exageration). It murders your memory bandwidth (I have 2gb GDDR5 and it crushed it trying to play the opening video lol). I changed the behavior flag to only map the superVCAA to multisampling, but it still maxed out my vram, although I could get in the game (has the same issues as FSAA, but looks better than it somehow). I am still gonna play around with behavior flags to see if I can fix up the issues with SGSSAA.

Good luck~
Although odd that we don't really have anyone with a AMD card here..

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 3, 2013, 01:49 PM
Good luck~
Although odd that we don't really have anyone with a AMD card here..

A lot of people here have laptops, and nvidia dominates that market. Also, you need an nvidia card to use this stuff haha

zegun~kun
Apr 3, 2013, 01:49 PM
That's odd, with that type of setting, I'm getting at least 30~45 FPS though
And I have a GTX 670 too, but I prefer to game at 60FPS, so switched back to 4x.

i was using Mirror Edge's AO in High Quality settings.. very smooth when not seeing Lilipa sand storms and zondeels though
and just my luck, the moment i typed that, i was in a party with all Force that loves zondeel ~_~

Sizustar
Apr 3, 2013, 01:58 PM
i was using Mirror Edge's AO in High Quality settings.. very smooth when not seeing Lilipa sand storms and zondeels though
and just my luck, the moment i typed that, i was in a party with all Force that loves zondeel ~_~

So am I though.[SPOILER-BOX]
http://img.techpowerup.org/130403/nvidia_20130404_025302.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

This is my GPU
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://img.techpowerup.org/130403/nvidia_20130404_025356.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Zyrusticae
Apr 3, 2013, 02:29 PM
So am I though.
You're not, actually. There's a drop-down box for the ambient occlusion setting and it goes past "quality" into "high quality".

High quality is not really intended to be playable, however, hence why you can't actually choose it on the control panel, only through Inspector. It is extremely performance-intensive.

Sizustar
Apr 3, 2013, 02:34 PM
You're not, actually. There's a drop-down box for the ambient occlusion setting and it goes past "quality" into "high quality".

High quality is not really intended to be playable, however, hence why you can't actually choose it on the control panel, only through Inspector. It is extremely performance-intensive.

Ah, didn't see that high quality part. time to zzz.

zegun~kun
Apr 3, 2013, 02:36 PM
@sizu
okay i was using 8xQ (8x Multisampling) on the AA Settings and it seems i forgot to Disallow FXAA Prefix usage
the rest are same, except my AO Settting on the bottom was set to High Quality (this was probably the trouble maker)

also, this is my gpu -- which doesnt differ too much from yours :D
[spoiler-box]http://img.techpowerup.org/130403/nvidia_20130404_023520.png[/spoiler-box]

DreXxiN
Apr 3, 2013, 02:49 PM
If you are referring to the MSAA settings, this.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.techpowerup.org/130402/nvidia_20130402_220815.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

These are the exact settings I'm using now with Mirror's Edge 2 Ambient Occlusion and it looks amazing with hardly any FPS drop. This is my favorite cost vs. performance ratio by far :). Even on my ol' GTX 470 it's smooth as butter most of the time.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 3, 2013, 03:07 PM
These are the exact settings I'm using now with Mirror's Edge 2 Ambient Occlusion and it looks amazing with hardly any FPS drop. This is my favorite cost vs. performance ratio by far :). Even on my ol' GTX 470 it's smooth as butter most of the time.

It just doesn't eliminate enough aliasing for me. I still prefer SGSSAA. I am going to continue trying to get it right. Having absolutely no shimmering is nice.

Sizustar
Apr 3, 2013, 03:17 PM
@sizu
okay i was using 8xQ (8x Multisampling) on the AA Settings and it seems i forgot to Disallow FXAA Prefix usage
the rest are same, except my AO Settting on the bottom was set to High Quality (this was probably the trouble maker)

also, this is my gpu -- which doesnt differ too much from yours :D
[spoiler-box]http://img.techpowerup.org/130403/nvidia_20130404_023520.png[/spoiler-box]

Yep, quality is good enough, unless you have a Titan SLI or GTX 690, then you might have enough power for High Quality AO.
I noticed that you didn't OC your GPU though.

Zyrusticae
Apr 3, 2013, 03:22 PM
AHA.

I've FINALLY found bits that work, don't show hair seams, and show up in screenshots! The Race Driver: Grid bits!

Unfortunately, they are also stupidly dark. I mean ridiculously dark. I mean WTF-levels of darkness. See for yourself:
[spoiler-box]https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pAfmJ_GK-0FdcyYmttdXEgjcarLLFrDU8lRBy6tdIWfYq0UfTpJiDpTMljE eZUUCsUrI23jJNL-c/pso20130403_151622_000.jpg?psid=1[/spoiler-box]
Maaaan. I really wish Nvidia would give me the ability to make truly custom AO profiles myself. I could do so much with that ability...

Edit: Okay, nevermind, they're actually quite buggy (though it's VERY noticeably lighter on the quality setting; the high quality setting was used in the screenshot above).

It feels like I will never win in the end.

Edit #2: Okay, some good bits! 0x00000013 (ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead, Take-on helicopters, ArmA 3, ArmA 2) is very good quality. It's not excessively dark (in fact, it's pretty subtle), shows up in screenshots, and most importantly, doesn't show hair seams. However, it does show up through loading screens, fog, and particle effects. Personally, I consider this an acceptable compromise as the hair seams were driving me insane.

[spoiler-box]https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pV--oLcIp-tA-TwXtJgEkSkAi91KISDTRFmr7M4a0ptVMY2Zv1iQbSBWMxlDaeB LXD8DXchvQW1Q/pso20130403_153237_001.jpg?psid=1[/spoiler-box]
Pretty subtle, ain't it?

Edit #3 (the edit train will never stop!): Here's a screenshot illustrating the aforementioned particle clipping:
[spoiler-box]https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1p7qZ6GW8hzSEmqVIVxG5hA-W4A2-OEnOupDS6JYIcFJL07BejmLk5aJYbqpJ9mEVf_4EqA61hkWo/pso20130403_155051_002.jpg?psid=1[/spoiler-box]
However, note that this is with the high quality setting instead of the quality setting, which is noticeably darker.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 3, 2013, 08:05 PM
Edit #3 (the edit train will never stop!): Here's a screenshot illustrating the aforementioned particle clipping:
[spoiler-box]https://ucxrag.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1p7qZ6GW8hzSEmqVIVxG5hA-W4A2-OEnOupDS6JYIcFJL07BejmLk5aJYbqpJ9mEVf_4EqA61hkWo/pso20130403_155051_002.jpg?psid=1[/spoiler-box]
However, note that this is with the high quality setting instead of the quality setting, which is noticeably darker.

To be honest, the particle clipping looks really cool haha.

Zyrusticae
Apr 3, 2013, 11:43 PM
Ahhhh, I'm tired of this. The AO showing up through fog actually kills its effect as it looks way too deep and dark in way too many instances, especially in the volcanic caves where it doesn't blend with the lighting whatsoever. This is in stark contrast to the Mirror's Edge bits where it actually looks good in every lighting situation. So far the ME bits are the best one in terms of visual quality aside from the damn hair seams, but it's the fact that it plays nicely with the lighting that creates the hair seams in the first place. None of the bits that hide the hair seams interact with the lighting correctly.

So it's basically either: get high-quality AO and deal with the hair seams, or get lower-quality AO with no hair seams but tons of clipping through fog, particles, etc. There is no happy middle ground here.

Either way, I'm kind of sick of messing with this so I've just shut it off for now. If only SEGA added their own AO to the game proper, this wouldn't even be necessary...

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 4, 2013, 12:03 AM
Ahhhh, I'm tired of this. The AO showing up through fog actually kills its effect as it looks way too deep and dark in way too many instances, especially in the volcanic caves where it doesn't blend with the lighting whatsoever. This is in stark contrast to the Mirror's Edge bits where it actually looks good in every lighting situation. So far the ME bits are the best one in terms of visual quality aside from the damn hair seams, but it's the fact that it plays nicely with the lighting that creates the hair seams in the first place. None of the bits that hide the hair seams interact with the lighting correctly.

So it's basically either: get high-quality AO and deal with the hair seams, or get lower-quality AO with no hair seams but tons of clipping through fog, particles, etc. There is no happy middle ground here.

Either way, I'm kind of sick of messing with this so I've just shut it off for now. If only SEGA added their own AO to the game proper, this wouldn't even be necessary...

The extremely ironic thing is that there is an Nvidia thing that plays at the beginning, but there is absolutely NO Nvidia tech being used. AA hardly works, Ambient Occlusion isn't officially supported, and it doesn't use Physx. At least it works in SLI lol. It is almost like Nvidia bought an advertising slot in the opening of the game lol.

Zyrusticae
Apr 4, 2013, 12:15 AM
Yeah, it's pretty embarrassing. I'm thinking I should get in touch with someone in Nvidia and ask them if they can get someone to work on an AO profile for the game - or, hell, even let me do it myself. There's really no excuse, especially since they can just download the benchmark program for free and do testing that way.

Sizustar
Apr 4, 2013, 12:22 AM
Yeah, it's pretty embarrassing. I'm thinking I should get in touch with someone in Nvidia and ask them if they can get someone to work on an AO profile for the game - or, hell, even let me do it myself. There's really no excuse, especially since they can just download the benchmark program for free and do testing that way.

You should.
I'm trying to get Lavandy and other to contact Gameguard and Sega to allow us to use FXAA on Nvidia card, as it is the official "card" that PSO2 supports.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 4, 2013, 12:51 AM
You should.
I'm trying to get Lavandy and other to contact Gameguard and Sega to allow us to use FXAA on Nvidia card, as it is the official "card" that PSO2 supports.

You can use it lol. It just looks like shit.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 4, 2013, 12:53 AM
Yeah, it's pretty embarrassing. I'm thinking I should get in touch with someone in Nvidia and ask them if they can get someone to work on an AO profile for the game - or, hell, even let me do it myself. There's really no excuse, especially since they can just download the benchmark program for free and do testing that way.

Well, the PC market isn't huge in Japan, and maybe they are waiting for an international release to do it. You have to remember that Nvidia is a business. The benefits of them creating cool features for games is that people will buy their graphics cards to use it. Since PSO2 doesn't have the greatest following, or even requires a dedicated graphics card for that matter, they likely won't put a ton of time into it. Kinda shitty, but it is the truth.

Zyrusticae
Apr 4, 2013, 01:27 AM
Ehhh, they've made AO profiles for some pretty obscure/niche games in the past (the ARMA series, Cryostasis, R.U.S.E., hell, even Mabinogi has a damn profile), so I'm not too worried about that. It just seems more like an oversight than anything else.

Wouldn't even take much effort, either - just copy-paste the Mirror's Edge profile and fix whatever it is causing the hair seams. Done and done.


You should.
I'm trying to get Lavandy and other to contact Gameguard and Sega to allow us to use FXAA on Nvidia card, as it is the official "card" that PSO2 supports.
I think what you meant to say is SweetFX?

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 4, 2013, 01:13 PM
Ehhh, they've made AO profiles for some pretty obscure/niche games in the past (the ARMA series, Cryostasis, R.U.S.E., hell, even Mabinogi has a damn profile), so I'm not too worried about that. It just seems more like an oversight than anything else.

Wouldn't even take much effort, either - just copy-paste the Mirror's Edge profile and fix whatever it is causing the hair seams. Done and done.


I think what you meant to say is SweetFX?

Well, I guess I meant to emphasize that it isn't released internationally. Japan culturally prefers console gaming, especially mobile gaming (I still don't understand why Sega wanted to keep PSO2 on PCs, maybe patch related things). When the game sees an international release, Nvidia might do more to pretty up the game. As for the AO bits, I am pretty sure you CAN make your own. You just need to test things out. Thats how I made the AA bits. As for the hair seam, that appears to be a conflict with the universally forced AO effect, and will probably need to be fixed on Sega's end. That won't happen unless Nvidia makes an official profile though. I'm sure it has something to do with the way the hair is rendered in this game that causes the driver to try to occlude that part of the hair.

Sizustar
Apr 8, 2013, 02:45 PM
Some other Negative LOD setting for SGSSAA to reduce some bluriness

4x SGSSAA: -1.0 - 1.375
8x SGSSAA: -1.5 - 1.8 - 2.0

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 8, 2013, 05:45 PM
Some other Negative LOD setting for SGSSAA to reduce some bluriness

4x SGSSAA: -1.0 - 1.375
8x SGSSAA: -1.5 - 1.8 - 2.0

LOD isn't the fix for blurry textures. It is a benefit of using SGSSAA or SSAA. Also, if you increase it more than what I posted, it can result in some flickering textures which can be mildly annoying.

http://naturalviolence.webs.com/sgssaa.htm

Sizustar
Apr 9, 2013, 02:55 AM
Someone else testing out AA and AO on PSO2, although their AO bit of Dead Space doesn't seem to have any effect for me though.
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up47418.jpg

Alisha
Apr 9, 2013, 02:59 AM
what is score refering to?

Sizustar
Apr 9, 2013, 02:30 PM
This AO Bit seems to work best with minimal side effect.
0x0004000f

Zyrusticae
Apr 9, 2013, 02:37 PM
Note that it STILL shows hair seams in the lobbies for some reason that I'm not quite sure of. It seems to happen most often by the windows, so something outside of them is breaking it perhaps? If you face away from the windows it usually works fine. Also, some outfits also seem to break it - the Maihime ones in particular. Why? No clue! They just do. It's a small thing, since it's only the hair that's affected, but it's something to keep in mind.

Sizustar
Apr 9, 2013, 02:38 PM
Note that it STILL shows hair seams in the lobbies for some reason that I'm not quite sure of. It seems to happen most often by the windows, so something outside of them is breaking it perhaps? If you face away from the windows it usually works fine. Also, some outfits also seem to break it - the Maihime ones in particular. Why? No clue! They just do. It's a small thing, since it's only the hair that's affected, but it's something to keep in mind.

It also seems to take a heavier FPS hit then the Mirror's edge one too.
I lost about 10 FPS in the lobby while using it.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 11, 2013, 02:10 PM
So, great news! I decided to ignore the general rules of SGSSAA and combined 8xMSAA with 4xSGSSAA.....the result was mind blowing. It dropped my gpu usage on both my 560 ti's by 20% and looks as sharp as not having AA at all. It doesn't work quite as well at eliminating aliasing, but the added sharpness is worth it IMO. I wish I could explain why this works so much better....

8xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA using 0x004010F0
LOD bias at -1.00
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.abload.de/img/pso20130411_150621_002guzd.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Zyrusticae
Apr 11, 2013, 02:15 PM
The reason it looks sharper is because SGSSAA uses MSAA to determine where to place its samples.

Please keep in mind that whenever you use SGSSAA you should always match the number of MSAA samples used to the number of SGSSAA samples used. 8xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA will usually have lower quality than 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA. This is because SGSSAA gets it's sample coordinates from the MSAA samples. So if you have more MSAA samples than SGSSAA samples the SGSSAA samples will not be placed in the ideal locations. Also you cannot have more SGSSAA samples than MSAA samples for the same reason as I'm sure you've guessed. Even though it uses MSAA sample coordinates using additional coverage samples will reduce the effectiveness of SGSSAA by changing the grid pattern so that the MSAA samples are placed closer to the center of the pixel (which is a less ideal location). This is why I advised 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA not 16xAA (4xMSAA + 12xCSAA) + 4xSGSSAA.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 11, 2013, 02:18 PM
The reason it looks sharper is because SGSSAA uses MSAA to determine where to place its samples.

Based on that description, it should look WORSE, not better. That is why I don't understand it haha. It most always blurs the hell out of games.

Zyrusticae
Apr 11, 2013, 02:23 PM
I'm guessing that it is indeed placing the samples closer to the center of the pixel, hence why the anti-aliasing is also less effective than usual.

Personally, I'm happy with the look of 4x MSAA + SGSSAA. Looks plenty sharp enough for my tastes. The new AO bit is also working very nicely for my tastes, though it still boggles my mind how they came across it.

I was under the impression (and still am, really) that they needed to program specific shaders for each ambient occlusion profile, unlike AA bits where the bits merely change specific parameters. I'm thinking that there are actually several hidden AO profiles that they don't expose to the front-end because they're WIP. It's far, FAR too much of a coincidence for someone to just come up with something that happens to work so well with PSO2 (especially when every other AO profile either doesn't work with the game or is full of issues).

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 11, 2013, 02:28 PM
I'm guessing that it is indeed placing the samples closer to the center of the pixel, hence why the anti-aliasing is also less effective than usual.

Personally, I'm happy with the look of 4x MSAA + SGSSAA. Looks plenty sharp enough for my tastes. The new AO bit is also working very nicely for my tastes, though it still boggles my mind how they came across it.

I was under the impression (and still am, really) that they needed to program specific shaders for each ambient occlusion profile, unlike AA bits where the bits merely change specific parameters. I'm thinking that there are actually several hidden AO profiles that they don't expose to the front-end because they're WIP. It's far, FAR too much of a coincidence for someone to just come up with something that happens to work so well with PSO2 (especially when every other AO profile either doesn't work with the game or is full of issues).

It doesn't look much worse than it did before. It would be the middle ground of MSAA and SGSSAA, but definitely closer to correctly setup SGSSAA in terms of reducing aliasing. I understand why it looks different, I just don't understand why it would still work well and look sharper. Also, I turned on ambient occlusion with it and it broke the lighting (using the new value). I am gonna test it out with mirrors edge. I may come out to not work at all with ambient occlusion. Although this knowledge is good. It might be possible to tweak the AO profile to fix the lighting issues caused my SSAA.

EDIT: Mirrors Edge does indeed work. It looks fantastic.
EDIT 2: It was a one time occurrence, and 0x0004000F does work :p (although the 4 doesn't really do anything as far as I can tell)

Sizustar
Apr 11, 2013, 02:48 PM
I'm guessing that it is indeed placing the samples closer to the center of the pixel, hence why the anti-aliasing is also less effective than usual.

Personally, I'm happy with the look of 4x MSAA + SGSSAA. Looks plenty sharp enough for my tastes. The new AO bit is also working very nicely for my tastes, though it still boggles my mind how they came across it.

I was under the impression (and still am, really) that they needed to program specific shaders for each ambient occlusion profile, unlike AA bits where the bits merely change specific parameters. I'm thinking that there are actually several hidden AO profiles that they don't expose to the front-end because they're WIP. It's far, FAR too much of a coincidence for someone to just come up with something that happens to work so well with PSO2 (especially when every other AO profile either doesn't work with the game or is full of issues).

I asked, and appreantly they got that AO by putting in random number....so..Dumb luck?

And what's your FPS with Quality AO, and 8xSMAA+8xSGSAA?

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 11, 2013, 03:33 PM
Btw, that new AO value looks the exact same as the Dead Space one. And if you replace the F with a 2, it looks the exact same as the Mirrors Edge one :p I don't think the 4 does anything. Based on the values for games, it looks like the values are only a trigger for the inaccessible stuff Nvidia does to make it work. IDK though. Cause when I used 0x00000032 it glitched pretty badly haha. If someone wants to experiment, go for it.

Zyrusticae
Apr 11, 2013, 03:50 PM
You sure about that? I remember testing the Dead Space one... Hmm.

At any rate, I have some testing to do when I get home.

Manta Oyamada
Apr 11, 2013, 05:44 PM
GTX 560 Zotac 1 gb 256bits

NVIDIA Inspector

my pso 2

http://i.minus.com/ibeuuNYNM6Ec9L.jpg

http://i.minus.com/iblVjrDEWrkoOU.jpg

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 11, 2013, 07:08 PM
GTX 560 Zotac 1 gb 256bits

NVIDIA Inspector

my pso 2

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.minus.com/ibeuuNYNM6Ec9L.jpg

http://i.minus.com/iblVjrDEWrkoOU.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

You should switch your screenshot format to .png or .bmp. PSO2 .jpg compression is very low quality.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 11, 2013, 07:15 PM
EDIT: Also, it looks like you don't use anisotropic filtering, force that in your drivers. Makes a big difference.

LOL I made a new post instead of editing.....failure

Chik'Tikka
Apr 11, 2013, 07:59 PM
EDIT: Also, it looks like you don't use anisotropic filtering, force that in your drivers. Makes a big difference.

LOL I made a new post instead of editing.....failure

what's that do?? you had it off on the OP, so i have mine off+^_^+

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 11, 2013, 08:59 PM
what's that do?? you had it off on the OP, so i have mine off+^_^+

It is set to user-defined/off. Basically it is the value I have set, 16x, or it forces it off if I have it set to none instead of using the ingame value. The actual filter will make textures look significantly better at an angle and in most cases there is not a performance impact at all.

Chik'Tikka
Apr 11, 2013, 09:19 PM
no impact?? imma play with that then+^_^+ maybe make my cruddy youtube uploads look a little better+^_^+

Alisha
Apr 11, 2013, 10:37 PM
GTX 560 Zotac 1 gb 256bits

NVIDIA Inspector

my pso 2

http://i.minus.com/ibeuuNYNM6Ec9L.jpg

http://i.minus.com/iblVjrDEWrkoOU.jpg

looks like a blurry mess :(

Darki
Apr 15, 2013, 09:05 AM
Ugh you could put the pictures in a nice spoiler box, plz. By the way, I agree, that looks so blurred, it gives me a headache. <_<

Is there any workaround for shimmering textures? Specially now, the textures in Dragon Altar really get hard with this. Is the only problem I have now with my graphic settings.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 15, 2013, 09:22 AM
Ugh you could put the pictures in a nice spoiler box, plz. By the way, I agree, that looks so blurred, it gives me a headache. <_<

Is there any workaround for shimmering textures? Specially now, the textures in Dragon Altar really get hard with this. Is the only problem I have now with my graphic settings.

SGSSAA and 16xAnisotropic Filtering is the best way to get rid of it. Try out 8xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA with a negative LOD bias of -1.000. If that isn't good enough, switch to 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA same LOD. 8xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA creates absolutely no blur, but can miss some spots (still works extremely well) and 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA hits every jagged edge, but softens the image. Some people like the softer look, some don't. Just try both out and decide for yourself. 8xMSAA has better performance than 4xMSAA somehow (when using 4xSGSSAA). Be sure to use the AA compatibility value 0x004010F0

Darki
Apr 15, 2013, 03:13 PM
Hmm, I tinkered a bit with the settings and I noticed a drastic performance drop, which might be caused by other things that I touched, but I'm going to go changing only the AO and AA ones this time and see if it works.

[EDIT]: Nope, I don't know what am I doing wrong, but even with your "absolutely no blur" setting, it's really blurry. Unless I'm picking the wrong 8x setting? Which one is it, 8x or 8xQ?

Chik'Tikka
Apr 15, 2013, 04:29 PM
Hmm, I tinkered a bit with the settings and I noticed a drastic performance drop, which might be caused by other things that I touched, but I'm going to go changing only the AO and AA ones this time and see if it works.

[EDIT]: Nope, I don't know what am I doing wrong, but even with your "absolutely no blur" setting, it's really blurry. Unless I'm picking the wrong 8x setting? Which one is it, 8x or 8xQ?

AO will really chew performance regardless, try keeping that off and only adjusting AA settings (be sure to set the AO quality to off as well as AO use to disabled, sometimes even with use disabled it likes to run anyway if you have the quality setting on)+^_^+ once you get the AA you like, then fiddle with AO+^_^+

Darki
Apr 15, 2013, 04:44 PM
Now my main problem is getting the game blurry as hell. It happens only with the sparse grid supersampling only. I wouldn't really care about a slight blur (it softens the edges a bit and looks slighty better when is not too exagerated) f it wasn't because the menus are affected too, and that really causes me headaches.

Also, no matter what I can't stop the shimmering effect, which is really really annoying in the new field since every surface there has a texture that shimmers on my screen.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 15, 2013, 05:26 PM
Hmm, I tinkered a bit with the settings and I noticed a drastic performance drop, which might be caused by other things that I touched, but I'm going to go changing only the AO and AA ones this time and see if it works.

[EDIT]: Nope, I don't know what am I doing wrong, but even with your "absolutely no blur" setting, it's really blurry. Unless I'm picking the wrong 8x setting? Which one is it, 8x or 8xQ?

8xQ

MSAA stands for multisampling btw.

Please take a screenshot of Nvidia Inspector and upload it here (there is an option in the top right of Nvidia Inspector, just to the left of "Apply Changes", to take a screenshot).

EDIT: Even easier. For top image quality, copy my settings exactly. You need a very powerful computer to run Ambient Occlusion with SGSSAA. If it is too slow, I can show you the settings to use to speed it up significantly.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.techpowerup.org/130415/nvidia_20130415_183156.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

EDIT 2: Also, MAKE SURE YOU TURN OFF IN GAME AA!

Darki
Apr 15, 2013, 05:45 PM
^ That stupid built-in AA was the cause of my settings getting all crap, but noticed a previous post where it was mentioned so I already fixed it. No worries here anymore. I'm experimenting a bit and getting more or less good results now, I will post some screens later.

I just hope they made proper setups for the game instead of using other games... That hair seam thing really gets me. Fortunately the flickering effect is fixed as much as possible now.

Sizustar
Apr 15, 2013, 05:57 PM
8xMSAA+8XSGSAA - FPS - 45
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48575.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

8xMSAA+4XSGSAA - FPS - 63
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48576.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 15, 2013, 05:58 PM
^ That stupid built-in AA was the cause of my settings getting all crap, but noticed a previous post where it was mentioned so I already fixed it. No worries here anymore. I'm experimenting a bit and getting more or less good results now, I will post some screens later.

I just hope they made proper setups for the game instead of using other games... That hair seam thing really gets me. Fortunately the flickering effect is fixed as much as possible now.

The hair seam is annoying, but I don't let it get to me haha. Also, I meant that you needed to copy ALL my settings exactly, not just the one in blue. Just want to make sure you did haha.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 15, 2013, 05:59 PM
8xMSAA+8XSGSAA - FPS - 45
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48575.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

8xMSAA+4XSGSAA - FPS - 63
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48576.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

When I discovered that, I really scratched my head haha. It looks better and performs better while going against the rules of SGSSAA haha.

Darki
Apr 15, 2013, 06:31 PM
The hair seam is annoying, but I don't let it get to me haha. Also, I meant that you needed to copy ALL my settings exactly, not just the one in blue. Just want to make sure you did haha.

No worries. I'm not using your same settings because I decided to go with 8xMSAA+8XSGSAA and that one AO that Sizustar posted before (it looks pretty neat to me although Murphy's laws didn't allow me to check it in Dragon Altar's fog after being there like 30 minutes... when it usually pops in under 30 seconds whern I don't want it. Go figure).

Overall it looks much better than before and the shimmering is all gone. =)


When I discovered that, I really scratched my head haha. It looks better and performs better while going against the rules of SGSSAA haha.

To be honest, I prefer how the first one looks. I don't like how sharp the second setting looks, the first one somehow looks more natural to me. Although I really don't like the drop in FPS I'm tinkering with the AO settings to see if I can keep that AA with a marginally decent AO.

My card is a GTX660, by the way (not the Ti one).

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 15, 2013, 06:35 PM
No worries. I'm not using your same settings because I decided to go with 8xMSAA+8XSGSAA and that one AO that Sizustar posted before (it looks pretty neat to me although Murphy's laws didn't allow me to check it in Dragon Altar's fog after being there like 30 minutes... when it usually pops in under 30 seconds whern I don't want it. Go figure).

Overall it looks much better than before and the shimmering is all gone. =)



To be honest, I prefer how the first one looks. I don't like how sharp the second setting looks, the first one somehow looks more natural to me. Although I really don't like the drop in FPS I'm tinkering with the AO settings to see if I can keep that AA with a marginally decent AO.

My card is a GTX660, by the way (not the Ti one).

Lower it to 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA with an LOD bias of -1.000. You won't even be able to tell the difference visually and it performs much better.

Sizustar
Apr 15, 2013, 06:38 PM
To be honest, I prefer how the first one looks. I don't like how sharp the second setting looks, the first one somehow looks more natural to me. Although I really don't like the drop in FPS I'm tinkering with the AO settings to see if I can keep that AA with a marginally decent AO.

My card is a GTX660, by the way (not the Ti one).

Well, if you aren't already, you can try performance AO, instead of the Quality I use, I lose about 5~10 FPS from Quality to Performance.
Another option is to overclock your GPU if you have enough cooling in your case. although I don't it'll give you magicallly 20+ FPS..



When I discovered that, I really scratched my head haha. It looks better and performs better while going against the rules of SGSSAA haha.

Yep, it looks sharper, but I like some of the blurriness too.

tried out some more setting.
AA bit - 0x004032C1
16X+4XMSAA - FPS 40~60(Jumping randomly with Fraps)
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48577.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

AA bit - 0x004032C1
8xMSAA+4XSGSAA - FPS - 12[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48578.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

AA Bit - 0x004018C0
16X+4XMSAA -FPS 73[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48580.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

AA Bit - 0x004018C0
8xMSAA+4XSGSAA - FPS - 45[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48581.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Darki
Apr 15, 2013, 06:42 PM
Lower it to 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA with an LOD bias of -1.000. You won't even be able to tell the difference visually and it performs much better.

I do tell the difference. <_< My main issue with lowering it is the shimmering. Its really really annoying for me and anything lower than 8x gets any shimmering texture into a disco party mode. Not too pleasant. x_x

Actually, keeping them at 8x but using the 0x004018C0 bit got it to perform much better. I guess this is a matter of throwing random combinations and seeing what happens. As Cave Johnson would say "throwing sience at a wall and see what sticks". xD

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 15, 2013, 06:51 PM
I do tell the difference. <_< My main issue with lowering it is the shimmering. Its really really annoying for me and anything lower than 8x gets any shimmering texture into a disco party mode. Not too pleasant. x_x

Actually, keeping them at 8x but using the 0x004018C0 bit got it to perform much better. I guess this is a matter of throwing random combinations and seeing what happens. As Cave Johnson would say "throwing sience at a wall and see what sticks". xD

Are you playing at your native resolution??? Cause there is seriously no discernible difference between 8xSGSSAA and 4xSGSSAA at 1080p lol. Any shimmering that still exists in 4xSGSSAA still exists in 8xSGSSAA in this game, from what I could tell. If you don't change the LOD bias, textures will shimmer, but I don't think you are talking about shimmering textures, but aliasing instead.

Also, I promise that 0x004010F0 is the best one. It might perform slightly worse, but the image quality is better.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 15, 2013, 06:54 PM
Well, if you aren't already, you can try performance AO, instead of the Quality I use, I lose about 5~10 FPS from Quality to Performance.
Another option is to overclock your GPU if you have enough cooling in your case. although I don't it'll give you magicallly 20+ FPS..




Yep, it looks sharper, but I like some of the blurriness too.

tried out some more setting.
AA bit - 0x004032C1
16X+4XMSAA - FPS 40~60(Jumping randomly with Fraps)
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48577.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

AA bit - 0x004032C1
8xMSAA+4XSGSAA - FPS - 12[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48578.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

AA Bit - 0x004018C0
16X+4XMSAA -FPS 73[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48580.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

AA Bit - 0x004018C0
8xMSAA+4XSGSAA - FPS - 45[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48581.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

I like the softer image in some areas, but in other areas that are empty and uninspired, like desert, it is just depressing.

Darki
Apr 16, 2013, 04:44 AM
Are you playing at your native resolution??? Cause there is seriously no discernible difference between 8xSGSSAA and 4xSGSSAA at 1080p lol. Any shimmering that still exists in 4xSGSSAA still exists in 8xSGSSAA in this game, from what I could tell.

Seems to work now. It didn't on a previous setting. I'm not even sure of what I did wrong then, because I've reset to defaults a couple times when it went really bad so I might have touched something that I shouldn't have. My apologies for boring you with this... <_<

My only issue now is that its slightly too blurry for my tastes. I don't want it absolutely sharp, and I prefer having it a bit blurred over that, but if it was just a tiny bit less I'd be on my perfect settings. the HUD being a bit blurry is what bothers me the most, but well, I don't pay attention to it when I'm in a mission too often. In any case, I'm sorry but at least to my eyes, I notice a really big difference between 8xSGSSAA and 4xSGSSAA (monitor is 1680x1050). The later looks much blurrier. In the worst of the cases I think I'm going to keep that one and just kill the AO since it looks a bit bad in some areas anyways. I like the "doll-like" effect it gives but not as much as having no shimmer and no blur together, lol.


If you don't change the LOD bias, textures will shimmer, but I don't think you are talking about shimmering textures, but aliasing instead.

I had the LOD bias at -1.500 to match the 8x settings, although now I got it at -1.000 for the new ones. It seems to work now.

Also, no, no, I am talking about shimmering. I'm talking about, for example, the glowy sign above the elevators making a neon display of colors and waves as I run around the place or the textures in the cube shapes in the Sky Continent going all "fractal-magic" as I get closer to them.

But it seems it's ok now. As I said I use your settings, just some slight changes that I'm checking up and down to see if something gets better. So far the only difference between your settings and mine is that I went to the blurry setup instead of the extremely sharp one.


Also, I promise that 0x004010F0 is the best one. It might perform slightly worse, but the image quality is better.

At this point I'm not sure if I prefer performance over quality, it works well but I'll wait for a PSE burst to confirm it, lol.

Sizustar
Apr 16, 2013, 06:11 AM
Are you playing at your native resolution??? Cause there is seriously no discernible difference between 8xSGSSAA and 4xSGSSAA at 1080p lol. Any shimmering that still exists in 4xSGSSAA still exists in 8xSGSSAA in this game, from what I could tell. If you don't change the LOD bias, textures will shimmer, but I don't think you are talking about shimmering textures, but aliasing instead.

Also, I promise that 0x004010F0 is the best one. It might perform slightly worse, but the image quality is better.

Trying that bit
8xMSAA+4xSGSAA[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48647.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Darki
Apr 16, 2013, 09:13 AM
I've been doing a bit of overclocking on my GPU since its a Gigabyte Windshield edition, so it should be fine getting a performance bump.

My goal is to be able to keep the FPS over 60hz with the best settings as possible since that's my screen top. So far I've managed to keep it over that with 0x004018C0 bit and 8xMSAA+8xSGSAA, without Ambient Oclusion, but I'm going to test how it looks with the other AA bit, increasing the sampling, and finally see if AO goes well with that.

Hopefully I can keep it that good at least without Ambient Oclusion. I do like how it looks normally, but considering that the new stage that we're running often these days has that silly fog most of the time, shadows look really bad on it.

Manta Oyamada
Apr 18, 2013, 01:33 PM
Via pso2-uploader ^^

http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48920.jpg

Darki
Apr 18, 2013, 02:50 PM
How well does that work?

My problem is that when I have all the Nvidia settings to default, the game runs smooth and fine, FPS doesn't go under 90, but when I try to put antialiasing, even with 4x MSAA + 4x SGSAA and nothing else it drops the FPS down to around 60, and that's while idle. When I'm actually doing something it falls to even less than 30 if there are too many effects on screen. Fighting a boss like that is a real pain.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 18, 2013, 03:02 PM
How well does that work?

My problem is that when I have all the Nvidia settings to default, the game runs smooth and fine, FPS doesn't go under 90, but when I try to put antialiasing, even with 4x MSAA + 4x SGSAA and nothing else it drops the FPS down to around 60, and that's while idle. When I'm actually doing something it falls to even less than 30 if there are too many effects on screen. Fighting a boss like that is a real pain.

SGSSAA is very intensive. I put the warning in the first post haha.

Darki
Apr 18, 2013, 04:24 PM
Well, it drops the framerate even leaving the transparent supersampling as default, so I'm really starting to get annoyed at this. Honestly I don't really care about the jagged edges or not having ambient oclusion anymore, but isn't there a way to reduce the shimmering without losing 30fps on the process? No matter what I try, or it absolutely fucks the HUD (characters appear with spikes, straight lines are jagged too), or it drops over 60 FPS just by popping two Zondeels together.

Is it like that with any other game (this is the only one I've tried to customize), or does this actually happen because there are no predefined settings for PSO2? Because then, wath a bummer.

[EDIT] How much do disabling the graphical options in-game increase performance? I'm talking about things like blur, depth render and so, since we'd have to disable the native antialiasing, I'm thinking about this. Would disabling this stuff increase significantly the performance of the game, allowing me to keep it over 60FPS with some of the settings that people are mentioning? Manta's setting already fixes many issues but still kicks the framerate too low.

Honestly I'm thinking about reducing the graphics to 4 and playing in window mode to lower the resolution a bit just to be able to get better post effects, but I don't wanna get to that point.

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 18, 2013, 04:27 PM
I have a way but you won't like it.

Get a new GPU

Darki
Apr 18, 2013, 05:11 PM
I've got a GTX660, which is not the best GPU but runs the game at max graphic settings for the resolution I play at, and does so with most of the games I play anyways.

In fact my concern is basically that I can run everything else with max graphic settings and post effects, except this game. Not sure why PSO2 would be that demanding unless it's really bad coded.

Chik'Tikka
Apr 18, 2013, 05:29 PM
I've got a GTX660, which is not the best GPU but runs the game at max graphic settings for the resolution I play at, and does so with most of the games I play anyways.

In fact my concern is basically that I can run everything else with max graphic settings and post effects, except this game. Not sure why PSO2 would be that demanding unless it's really bad coded.

that should definitely be able to do what your asking (at least with the AA)... perhaps there's some other issue, a bad driver, old version of Nvidia Inspecter, etc.
EDIT: post below shows it really is bad coding be SEGAC+^_^+ isn't there an option to just disable particle effects?+^_^+

Zyrusticae
Apr 18, 2013, 05:29 PM
The problem is that the game has serious particle clipping issues. To be more specific, when the particles are really close to or intersect with the camera, you're suffering from particle overdraw, where the game is forcing your GPU to render a number of quads/triangles far in excess of its maximum fill rate. The solution to this is to create a minimum clipping distance that prevents particles from getting too close to the camera, but for whatever reason the devs have not seen fit to make use of this. Hence, huge FPS dips during particle-heavy scenes.

Fortunately, I have two GTX 670s so the FPS dip isn't as extreme for me (but even for me, it's still there - hence why particle overdraw is so damn important when it comes to optimization), but I can see how it can get extremely irritating for weaker machines. The only solution is to not use AA at all, sadly, or get more a powerful GPU(s).

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 18, 2013, 05:33 PM
I've got a GTX660, which is not the best GPU but runs the game at max graphic settings for the resolution I play at, and does so with most of the games I play anyways.

In fact my concern is basically that I can run everything else with max graphic settings and post effects, except this game. Not sure why PSO2 would be that demanding unless it's really bad coded.

Oh I see a 660, so you expect to run the game better than my 680 or Zyru's souped up twin 670s in SLI.


I see, I see...

Zyrusticae
Apr 18, 2013, 05:36 PM
Oh I see a 660, so you expect to run the game better than my 680 or Zyru's souped up twin 670s in SLI.


I see, I see...
...Regardless of the power of his machine, he has a point. PSO2 has serious issues with particle clipping, issues that I haven't actually seen in any other modern game in ages.

It's rather jarring, really.

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 18, 2013, 05:43 PM
...Regardless of the power of his machine, he has a point. PSO2 has serious issues with particle clipping, issues that I haven't actually seen in any other modern game in ages.

It's rather jarring, really.

Oh there's no doubt, just saying he has a mid range card and being shocked that it's not keeping up as well is a bit silly when others are having issues too. Not trying to be mean but it's like saying "I went total middle of the road, why isn't everything perfect?"


I mean almost everyone takes a performance hit on this game with custom settings. Hell most games I can run with any settings under the sun and be well over 60fps. Not here. In terms of general optimization, as much as it has improved over PSU it's still awful.

Darki
Apr 18, 2013, 06:01 PM
Oh I see a 660, so you expect to run the game better than my 680 or Zyru's souped up twin 670s in SLI.

I see, I see...
Oh there's no doubt, just saying he has a mid range card and being shocked that it's not keeping up as well is a bit silly when others are having issues too. Not trying to be mean but it's like saying "I went total middle of the road, why isn't everything perfect?"

I mean almost everyone takes a performance hit on this game with custom settings. Hell most games I can run with any settings under the sun and be well over 60fps. Not here. In terms of general optimization, as much as it has improved over PSU it's still awful.

Wow, pull the brake, smartass. Where exactly did I ever say that I expected to run my game better than you or Zyru? Honestly, the one that sounds "a bit silly" it's you with your attitude when I didn't do anything to provoke you.

I could care less about your setup, and in this thread all I see is people throwing different profiles without going too much into detail. I never asked for my game to be "everything perfect", In fact, I might have memory issues because I'm pretty sure that I mentioned I'm just trying to deal with the only issue that is bugging me at the moment, which are the shimmering textures. Unfortunately I'm not that much of an expert in graphic settings so I don't know how much of an impact do each element in the graphic settings have on the game, so I'm asking and testing things.

So please, quit the retarded attitude. Not trying to be mean either, of course.

Darki
Apr 18, 2013, 06:05 PM
The problem is that the game has serious particle clipping issues. To be more specific, when the particles are really close to or intersect with the camera, you're suffering from particle overdraw, where the game is forcing your GPU to render a number of quads/triangles far in excess of its maximum fill rate. The solution to this is to create a minimum clipping distance that prevents particles from getting too close to the camera, but for whatever reason the devs have not seen fit to make use of this. Hence, huge FPS dips during particle-heavy scenes.

Fortunately, I have two GTX 670s so the FPS dip isn't as extreme for me (but even for me, it's still there - hence why particle overdraw is so damn important when it comes to optimization), but I can see how it can get extremely irritating for weaker machines. The only solution is to not use AA at all, sadly, or get more a powerful GPU(s).

Well, is not like that comes as a suprise considering how good are in SEGA at fucking off things in the game. Sometimes I wish I didn't get hooked to their games. At least PSO2 doesn't go to the level of EA, those actually manage to fry graphic cards.

I guess I'll do some more tests with lowering the resolution in window mode.

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 18, 2013, 06:10 PM
Wow, pull the brake, smartass. Where exactly did I ever say that I expected to run my game better than you or Zyru? Honestly, the one that sounds "a bit silly" it's you with your attitude when I didn't do anything to provoke you.

I could care less about your setup, and in this thread all I see is people throwing different profiles without going too much into detail. I never asked for my game to be "everything perfect", In fact, I might have memory issues because I'm pretty sure that I mentioned I'm just trying to deal with the only issue that is bugging me at the moment, which are the shimmering textures. Unfortunately I'm not that much of an expert in graphic settings so I don't know how much of an impact do each element in the graphic settings have on the game, so I'm asking and testing things.

So please, quit the retarded attitude. Not trying to be mean either, of course.

Yeah right. I said don't expect to keep up, not surpass.

My point was people with better hardware are hitting performance issues with their better hardware, does it really surprise you that you're having issues?

Talk about retarded attitudes...

Sizustar
Apr 18, 2013, 07:12 PM
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48920.jpg
[/SPOILER-BOX]



Tried your bit 0x004d08f5 with 8x AA+4xSGSAA - FPS 61[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48932.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Using your setting with AO.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up48933.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[/SPOILER-BOX]

Well, it drops the framerate even leaving the transparent supersampling as default, so I'm really starting to get annoyed at this. Honestly I don't really care about the jagged edges or not having ambient oclusion anymore, but isn't there a way to reduce the shimmering without losing 30fps on the process? No matter what I try, or it absolutely fucks the HUD (characters appear with spikes, straight lines are jagged too), or it drops over 60 FPS just by popping two Zondeels together.

Is it like that with any other game (this is the only one I've tried to customize), or does this actually happen because there are no predefined settings for PSO2? Because then, wath a bummer.

[EDIT] How much do disabling the graphical options in-game increase performance? I'm talking about things like blur, depth render and so, since we'd have to disable the native antialiasing, I'm thinking about this. Would disabling this stuff increase significantly the performance of the game, allowing me to keep it over 60FPS with some of the settings that people are mentioning? Manta's setting already fixes many issues but still kicks the framerate too low.

Honestly I'm thinking about reducing the graphics to 4 and playing in window mode to lower the resolution a bit just to be able to get better post effects, but I don't wanna get to that point.

I'm not sure if turning off blur will help anyway.
Did you turn of the game's AA?
If not, that should help.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 18, 2013, 08:17 PM
Wow, pull the brake, smartass. Where exactly did I ever say that I expected to run my game better than you or Zyru? Honestly, the one that sounds "a bit silly" it's you with your attitude when I didn't do anything to provoke you.

I could care less about your setup, and in this thread all I see is people throwing different profiles without going too much into detail. I never asked for my game to be "everything perfect", In fact, I might have memory issues because I'm pretty sure that I mentioned I'm just trying to deal with the only issue that is bugging me at the moment, which are the shimmering textures. Unfortunately I'm not that much of an expert in graphic settings so I don't know how much of an impact do each element in the graphic settings have on the game, so I'm asking and testing things.

So please, quit the retarded attitude. Not trying to be mean either, of course.

The shimmering textures come from a negative LOD bias. If you aren't using SGSSAA, you need to set your LOD bias to 0 and to CLAMP. SGSSAA isn't an optimized AA form like MSAA. It is a brute force method to completely annihilate every jaggie on the screen lol. It would be comparable to having a wall blocking your path. You can elegantly walk around the wall (MSAA), or you can smash right through it using everything you've got (SGSSAA).

I have posted an explanation for the AA bits in this game, but I don't think many people have seen it. 0x004010F0 is the most functional option. I can't remember which page I put it on, but there is an explanation somewhere in this thread. That value works for plain old MSAA as well. Since you use a gtx 660 (non ti), I would use MSAA. Just turn on 4xMSAA and 4xtransparency supersampling. It won't work nearly as well because of the deferred rendering and texture aliasing, but it is better than nothing and performs very well. Also, ambient occlusion is a heavy hitter on performance as well. The performance impact isn't because Nvidia didn't create a profile for it, but because it isn't built in and optimized with the code of the actual game. There is a huge performance impact in pretty much every game ambient occlusion can be forced, such as skyrim or modern warfare 3. If you don't want to worry about shimmering textures in games, ALWAYS leave your LOD bias at 0 and set to clamp. That is a requirement if you use Anisotropic Filtering (like 90% of games use it to some degree). Also, force anisotropic filtering to 16x. It makes the textures look much nicer at an angle (basically the only way you look at them in this game lol).

~Aya~
Apr 18, 2013, 08:31 PM
The shimmering textures come from a negative LOD bias. If you aren't using SGSSAA, you need to set your LOD bias to 0 and to CLAMP. SGSSAA isn't an optimized AA form like MSAA. It is a brute force method to completely annihilate every jaggie on the screen lol. It would be comparable to having a wall blocking your path. You can elegantly walk around the wall (MSAA), or you can smash right through it using everything you've got (SGSSAA).

I have posted an explanation for the AA bits in this game, but I don't think many people have seen it. 0x004010F0 is the most functional option. I can't remember which page I put it on, but there is an explanation somewhere in this thread. That value works for plain old MSAA as well. Since you use a gtx 660 (non ti), I would use MSAA. Just turn on 4xMSAA and 4xtransparency supersampling. It won't work nearly as well because of the deferred rendering and texture aliasing, but it is better than nothing and performs very well. Also, ambient occlusion is a heavy hitter on performance as well. The performance impact isn't because Nvidia didn't create a profile for it, but because it isn't built in and optimized with the code of the actual game. There is a huge performance impact in pretty much every game ambient occlusion can be forced, such as skyrim or modern warfare 3. If you don't want to worry about shimmering textures in games, ALWAYS leave your LOD bias at 0 and set to clamp. That is a requirement if you use Anisotropic Filtering (like 90% of games use it to some degree). Also, force anisotropic filtering to 16x. It makes the textures look much nicer at an angle (basically the only way you look at them in this game lol).

You are one smart cookie. ^~^.. ty for your information.

Manta Oyamada
Apr 18, 2013, 11:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fwmVa94rYSQ

http://lavendy.net/pso2/2012/10/32xs_antialiasing_gtx690_sli_aa_demo.html

http://lavendy.net/pso2/2012/07/pso2_set_antialiasing_ob.html

http://lavendy.net/pso2/2012/08/pso2_antialiasing_update1208.html

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 12:00 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fwmVa94rYSQ

http://lavendy.net/pso2/2012/10/32xs_antialiasing_gtx690_sli_aa_demo.html

http://lavendy.net/pso2/2012/07/pso2_set_antialiasing_ob.html

http://lavendy.net/pso2/2012/08/pso2_antialiasing_update1208.html

SLI AA is extremely ineffective for games that work properly in SLI btw. It basically disables your 2nd GPU to solely process anti-aliasing. It is only useful in games that don't support SLI. I have used lavendy's settings before, and they aren't good. They are very blurry or require you to turn off shadows completely for it to function right.

Darki
Apr 19, 2013, 03:00 AM
Yeah right. I said don't expect to keep up, not surpass.

My point was people with better hardware are hitting performance issues with their better hardware, does it really surprise you that you're having issues?

Talk about retarded attitudes...

I never mentioned that I expected to keep up with your setup either. Please don't discuss over semantics now, because that's how stupid arguments start in this forum and I bet you don't wanna look like a kindergartener in a fight (or maybe you do, who knows).

My point is that it doesn't really surprise me nor I believe I gave that idea, I'm just trying to figure out if there's room for any improvement at all with my card, so excuse me.

You're the one getting all bitchy about how I, poor middle-tier peasant, tried to keep up with your awesome GPU. And I'm the one with the retarded attitude now, of course. Next time, if you're "not trying to be mean", then don't be. Simple as fuck.


I'm not sure if turning off blur will help anyway.
Did you turn of the game's AA?
If not, that should help.

I turned down both but they don't really help much. As I said, I'm not really that unhappy with the game graphics but if I could just reduce the shimmer...


The shimmering textures come from a negative LOD bias. If you aren't using SGSSAA, you need to set your LOD bias to 0 and to CLAMP. SGSSAA isn't an optimized AA form like MSAA. It is a brute force method to completely annihilate every jaggie on the screen lol. It would be comparable to having a wall blocking your path. You can elegantly walk around the wall (MSAA), or you can smash right through it using everything you've got (SGSSAA).

Lol, I get the idea.


I have posted an explanation for the AA bits in this game, but I don't think many people have seen it. 0x004010F0 is the most functional option. I can't remember which page I put it on, but there is an explanation somewhere in this thread. That value works for plain old MSAA as well. Since you use a gtx 660 (non ti), I would use MSAA. Just turn on 4xMSAA and 4xtransparency supersampling. It won't work nearly as well because of the deferred rendering and texture aliasing, but it is better than nothing and performs very well. Also, ambient occlusion is a heavy hitter on performance as well. The performance impact isn't because Nvidia didn't create a profile for it, but because it isn't built in and optimized with the code of the actual game. There is a huge performance impact in pretty much every game ambient occlusion can be forced, such as skyrim or modern warfare 3. If you don't want to worry about shimmering textures in games, ALWAYS leave your LOD bias at 0 and set to clamp. That is a requirement if you use Anisotropic Filtering (like 90% of games use it to some degree). Also, force anisotropic filtering to 16x. It makes the textures look much nicer at an angle (basically the only way you look at them in this game lol).

I tried with 4x MSAA and 4x SSAA and that would work good enough to my eyes (even 2x SSAA does, as in Manta's profile), but even that drops the game under 60 FPS. I gave up on AO already, since I don't really like how forced the shadows look even on high quality anyways, so I don't really care about not having it.

Anyways, what AA does the game use? I'm curious now because I'm kinda annoyed at the fact that no matter how low the post-effect I use I end crapping the HUD, and when the HUD doesn't look crap it's already too much for the game to stay above 60FPS. But the game's AA doesn't have any noticeable impact on it, while it has a better effect already that some of the lower effects I try to force with Nvidia inspector.

In any case, setting the LOD bias to 0.000 and to clamp does nothing noticeable to the shimmering.

Darki
Apr 19, 2013, 04:33 AM
Hmm, trying more things, and I gotta say that...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me0qrvGwDP1r3z80e.jpg

Putting the game in full screen instead of fake, disabling blur, field depth and antialiasing in the game (this last one was off all the time), and with this setup:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://oi46.tinypic.com/2mrebsw.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

It stays stable over 60FPS most of the time and it only drops to around 30FPS when in a Zondeel crapfest or similar. Didn't test it on a boss, so let's hope today we get Falz so I can do an extreme test, lol, but at least it doesn't go fuck itself just by using Over End.

I know we were talking about dropping SGSSAA because it's a heavy-hitter, but I didn't really notice any sort of improvement at all with MSAA no matter what I did, and I suppose it's acceptable that the game stays between 30~60 FPS. If it's going to drop when in a MPA heavy teching situation, so be it.

With this setup the game looks more or less like this:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://oi48.tinypic.com/2rqzsqb.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

It looks blurred, but I don't know if it's just because my eyes are already messed up from looking at so many different setups, many of them worse than this, It doesn't affect me thart much anymore. Also in motion it feels better. I guess I'll test this today and if it doesn't get too slow I'll keep it for the time being.

Chik'Tikka
Apr 19, 2013, 04:47 AM
Falz doesn't hit as hard as you'd think for performance, even with the zondeels (i think it's the custom camera zoom out helps keep techs and stuff that much further away)+^_^+ i was surprised actually after i started playing with SGSSAA on my 540m, if you want to test now, get someone (maybe 2 people) to spam the one megid spell that looks like purple oil balls falling out of the sky into a puddle right in front of you, then super fog in the sanctum, and Vardha blowing up+^_^+ vardha blowing up always drops me to like 10 FPS+^_^+ other wise i can stay 40-50 FPS everywhere else with worst dips still above 25 FPS+^_^+

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 09:27 AM
Darki, IMO, using high quality texture filtering is more important that anti-aliasing. Also, this game uses a crappy MLAA implementation of some sort. It is a post process anti aliasing method that basically finds jagged edges and blurs out the pixels. Where they exist. In theory, it would have the same effect that regular supersampling produces, but the pixels aren't nearly as accurate which is why it looks blurred (supersampling renders the image at a higher resolution and downsamples it, condensing detail so that the aliasing is basically hidden). Supersampling actually looks awesome in this game, but it doesn't work with this games quirky lighting. I think the supersampling effects the culling distance the light uses since each multiplier of it shifts the light differently.

Anyway, if you like the blurred look, stick with SGSSAA at 4x, but you get better performance with 8xMSAA and 4xSGSSAA.

Ezodagrom
Apr 19, 2013, 09:32 AM
Also, this game uses a crappy MLAA implementation of some sort.
I tried Radeon Pro's SMAA and FXAA, they don't look much different than the game's AA (well, they're all post-processing filters anyway), I actually prefer the game's AA to those, since those 2 affect the text.

Bah, would be so nice if SSAA worked properly, in the case of AMD users it doesn't work at all, when using profiles for other games PSO2 doesn't even open, when using the driver's SSAA nothing changes in-game. ._.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 09:46 AM
I tried Radeon Pro's SMAA and FXAA, they don't look much different than the game's AA (well, they're all post-processing filters anyway), I actually prefer the game's AA to those, since those 2 affect the text.

Bah, would be so nice if SSAA worked properly, in the case of AMD users it doesn't work at all, when using profiles for other games PSO2 doesn't even open, when using the driver's SSAA nothing changes in-game. ._.

Since it is built into the game, it occurs before the UI is generated. It would probably blur the UI worse than SMAA, but not as bad as FXAA (I hate FXAA with a passion). SMAA is bassically a better MLAA implementation. It is built based on MLAA. Anyway, super sampling won't work unless Sega edits part of their code. It appears the culling distance is directly based on the rendered resolution, which makes SSAA break the lighting. This can be viewed if you have an nvidia card and experiment with 1x2 and 2x1 super sampling (one multiplies horizontal resolution by 2 and leaves vertical the same, and vice versa). It is an interesting effect produced lol. SGSSAA works fine because it is basically a glitch that makes transparency super sampling work on every pixel, not just alpha textures.

Darki
Apr 19, 2013, 10:30 AM
Anyway, if you like the blurred look, stick with SGSSAA at 4x, but you get better performance with 8xMSAA and 4xSGSSAA.

Well, I don't like the blurred look, but with what you say I get a really bad performance. I suppose I'll give up for the time being and just go with the native graphics. It's just that shimmering that bothers me, and it seems that there's no solution unless I get my performance halved. :(

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 10:44 AM
Well, I don't like the blurred look, but with what you say I get a really bad performance. I suppose I'll give up for the time being and just go with the native graphics. It's just that shimmering that bothers me, and it seems that there's no solution unless I get my performance halved. :(

In the settings you posted earlier, you had some texture optimizations turned on. Turn those off and set your texture filtering to high quality. Optimization is a word that gets thrown around a lot in the game industry, and in this case, it lowers the quality and can introduce issues. The optimizations are like coke zero. Yeah, its coke and doesn't have calories, but it isn't as good as regular coke the way its meant to be. Probably a horrible analogy lol.

Darki
Apr 19, 2013, 11:18 AM
Uh, what should I leave on? I only have one "optimization" highlighted there and it's because it was on by default and I turned it off. Unless you're talking about triple buffering?

What would be the minimun possible setting that I should use then?

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 11:25 AM
Thought I remembered seeing more lol. Try turning on high quality texture filtering though. How much vram does your card have? If you have 1 GB you are probably maxing that out with SGSSAA, which could explain your issues.

Darki
Apr 19, 2013, 11:55 AM
2 GB, I use this one (http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4361#ov).

Sizustar
Apr 19, 2013, 01:14 PM
2 GB, I use this one (http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4361#ov).

Can you post a screenshot of your Nvidia Inspector setting, and FPS?

Your goal is to have 60+FPS with AA, right?

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 01:29 PM
2 GB, I use this one (http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4361#ov).

It is probably due to your memory bus. With the memory bus on that card, 2gb is basically a gimmicky amount of VRAM. This isn't something most people would know, so they can get higher sales by slapping on more memory, which is all anyone looks at. The memory bus is essentially the bottleneck of your card. Only so much data can be passed through it. It is like having a 2 lane highway with 500 cars. It will basically crawl. A larger memory bus on higher end cards is like having a 4 lane highway, it will be much smoother and can actually handle the traffic. That is what causes your card to perform badly with anti-aliasing, which is largely based on memory performance. Sorry but it looks like you might be out of luck. If an update for this game comes along that lowers the memory load, you can try using this again.

Darki
Apr 19, 2013, 02:01 PM
Can you post a screenshot of your Nvidia Inspector setting, and FPS?

Your goal is to have 60+FPS with AA, right?

Currently my settings are at Nvidia default, because I got kinda bored of the blur. My goal is to get rid of the shimmering in textures like the Dragon Altar because they give me huge headaches, and my framerate while in default settings, never lowers to under 70 FPS. When I put the AA though, like in the last screen I posted, it stays around 60~90 but drops a lot in combat.


It is probably due to your memory bus. With the memory bus on that card, 2gb is basically a gimmicky amount of VRAM. This isn't something most people would know, so they can get higher sales by slapping on more memory, which is all anyone looks at. The memory bus is essentially the bottleneck of your card. Only so much data can be passed through it. It is like having a 2 lane highway with 500 cars. It will basically crawl. A larger memory bus on higher end cards is like having a 4 lane highway, it will be much smoother and can actually handle the traffic. That is what causes your card to perform badly with anti-aliasing, which is largely based on memory performance. Sorry but it looks like you might be out of luck. If an update for this game comes along that lowers the memory load, you can try using this again.

Well, the game does work at top graphics, it's just sad that I can't squeeze a bit more to stop the shimmering. =/

Sizustar
Apr 19, 2013, 02:13 PM
Currently my settings are at Nvidia default, because I got kinda bored of the blur. My goal is to get rid of the shimmering in textures like the Dragon Altar because they give me huge headaches, and my framerate while in default settings, never lowers to under 70 FPS. When I put the AA though, like in the last screen I posted, it stays around 60~90 but drops a lot in combat.



Well, the game does work at top graphics, it's just sad that I can't squeeze a bit more to stop the shimmering. =/

What shimmering texture, and does it only appear with what AA setting?

Chik'Tikka
Apr 19, 2013, 02:18 PM
What shimmering texture, and does it only appear with what AA setting?

I'm curious now too, could you post some pics???+^_^+

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 02:24 PM
Well, the game does work at top graphics, it's just sad that I can't squeeze a bit more to stop the shimmering. =/

I'm still convinced that you are talking about aliasing when you say shimmering. Aliasing is the jagged edges you see on the edges of stuff. These edges can be color changes in textures (like a red line in a white texture) or the edges of geometry. The "shimmering" you see is just the jagged lines in motion when you are moving. This game has a bad case of aliasing, and it is pretty irritating to look at. This isn't supposed to sound offensive, but if things like aliasing irritate you, you should have saved up more money for a better gaming rig.

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 19, 2013, 02:33 PM
^Thank you for putting it into words that I couldn't.

Darki
Apr 19, 2013, 02:53 PM
What shimmering texture, and does it only appear with what AA setting?

No, with the AA setting I posted it doesn't appear, and it goes when I put both AA settings at 2x as well, but that makes it look too blurry. If I try a different combination, like 4x MSAA + 2x SGSSAA, they come back.


I'm still convinced that you are talking about aliasing when you say shimmering. Aliasing is the jagged edges you see on the edges of stuff. These edges can be color changes in textures (like a red line in a white texture) or the edges of geometry. The "shimmering" you see is just the jagged lines in motion when you are moving. This game has a bad case of aliasing, and it is pretty irritating to look at. This isn't supposed to sound offensive, but if things like aliasing irritate you, you should have saved up more money for a better gaming rig.

Yet I have to insist that I believe is shimmering what I'm experiencing.

I'm talking about the surface, not the edges, of things like the cube shapes in Amudiscia, dancing and waving to my eyes. Also, the neon banners at the top of the block change portals do this, as well as some sort of pannels behind the stairs of the shop area, in the Arks lobby.

I suppose this happens because the surfaces have a small pattern (in case of Amudiscia cubes I gues they're like alien characters?), and the graphics card renders them at different distances in a way that look like they're waving, or shifting in a "wavy" way.

In any case, I understand that I could have gotten a better graphics card, but we don't really solve anything discussing the past. I got this card because it was adequate to my budget and it's good enough to run pretty much any game I play without major issues (or any at all). The fact that I bought a middle-tier graphics card doesn't deny the fact that those shimmering surfaces are annoying, and it doesn't happen in any other game I've tried, at least not to the extent to make them that noticeable. In Dragon Altar I'm basically surrounded by them.


^Thank you for putting it into words that I couldn't.

The key difference was the politeness in which the words were said.

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 19, 2013, 03:03 PM
Or maybe you're just too sensitive. :-?

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 03:05 PM
Could you record a video showing what the problem is? It would be immensely helpful.

EDIT: Also, did you change your texture filtering quality to high quality? I will quickly test out if performance causes the issues.

Also, very important. Make sure you play the game in full screen mode, and not virtual full screen mode. Playing in any form of windowed mode, including virtual full screen reduces your GPU usage. The game will look smoother at lower framerates as well as having a higher framerate.

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 19, 2013, 03:16 PM
The game tends not to like alt-tab when it full screen which is why most of us use virtual.

Chik'Tikka
Apr 19, 2013, 03:17 PM
i'd love to play actual full screen, but if i do and i alt tab, it minimizes and crashes every sigle time+^_^+ i have no choice but to use virtual full screen unless i invest in 3rd party software to keep it active when i switch window focus+^_^+

edit; ninjad

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 03:19 PM
The game tends not to like alt-tab when it full screen which is why most of us use virtual.

Which is fine, but you will always get a better gameplay experience in full screen mode. This is true for every game.

it is odd that the game crashes for you guys when in full screen mode though. I don't have any issues alt+tabbing lol. It crashes very rarely when I do that. I think it has crashed like 2 times total from alt+tabbing. Now PSOBB....that literally crashed every time I alt+tabbed lol.

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 19, 2013, 03:22 PM
Eh. for me is doesn't crash anymore. It did during the beta, but not now. The reason I don't use FS now is I use growl to get instant messenger updates and FS doesn't play nice with it.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 03:23 PM
So I looked up shimmering textures in PSO2 along with a few synonyms for shimmering and I couldn't find anything. Do you have this issue in any other games? If you do, you should make sure your RAM and GPU are seated properly.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 03:24 PM
Eh. for me is doesn't crash anymore. It did during the beta, but not now. The reason I don't use FS now is I use growl to get instant messenger updates and FS doesn't play nice with it.

Full screen is definitely less convenient for MMO-type games. I have 2 screens, so I can look at something else while I play in full screen mode haha.

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 19, 2013, 03:31 PM
Yeah I actually am running HDMI to my 32" LED TV nearby so I technically have two screens, but it's too far away to be able to make out small text from a chat window and putting the game on the TV is out of the question just because I have to crane my neck to play that way.

Anyway just saying I can understand why some people may not want to run FS. It doesn't play nice with people who multitask.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 03:33 PM
Yeah I actually am running HDMI to my 32" LED TV nearby so I technically have two screens, but it's too far away to be able to make out small text from a chat window and putting the game on the TV is out of the question just because I have to crane my neck to play that way.

Anyway just saying I can understand why some people may not want to run FS. It doesn't play nice with people who multitask.

But honestly, how much multitasking can you really do playing a full action game like PSO2? lol

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 19, 2013, 03:40 PM
IMs, PSOW, Cirnopedia, skill tree sim for starters.

I get a lot of people who wanna chat and while I certainly wouldn't talk to them mid fight, I'd hate to make someone think I was ignoring them for 2 hours because I never knew they said anything.

Preposterous Rhino
Apr 19, 2013, 03:50 PM
IMs, PSOW, Cirnopedia, skill tree sim for starters.

I get a lot of people who wanna chat and while I certainly wouldn't talk to them mid fight, I'd hate to make someone think I was ignoring them for 2 hours because I never knew they said anything.

You should probably invest in a second monitor if you have the desk space. Just something cheap since it wouldn't be your primary monitor. It is so nice, and doing my college work is so much easier to manage.

blace
Apr 19, 2013, 03:52 PM
As someone that does multi task and have one monitor, I would like to say I don't have the desk space for two monitors.

Just randomly popping in and voicing my opinion.

Darki
Apr 19, 2013, 03:57 PM
Or maybe you're just too sensitive. :-?

Dude, what the fuck is your problem? You've been all this time with that smartass attitude towards me. If you don't have anything useful to say you could keep your remarks to yourself. Yes, we all know that you got an awesome GPU and that is better than mine. We don't care. Now go hug it if it makes you happy.


Could you record a video showing what the problem is? It would be immensely helpful.

I don't have any program to record it nor any place to upload, but I'll try to show it with screenshots. The block changer banner is pretty obvious even like that. This is with the game's default settings without touching anything in Nvidia Inspector.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i38.tinypic.com/wwkaw9.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/6zmph4.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/166wv3q.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/2s6odxs.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/flhn4x.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/23h8x7c.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/23j07r7.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

I suppose I don't need to point out the issue at all. You can see that the lime green banner there has these sort of waves that constantly shift as my position towards it changes. It happens just by moving the camera as well. Something similar to this happens on the surface of those cube shapes Amudiscia, but it's more difficult to catch on a screenshot because the details are very small.

When I use any sort of MSAA + SGSSAA setting (be it 2x, 4x or 8x) this effect dissapears, the surface is smooth and you gotta look really really carefully to notice any shifting in the texture at all. Amudiscia's cubes don't show any noticeable shift either.

It's possible that I'm making a huge deal out of something silly, but it's pretty much the only thing that jumps to my eyes when I play. The jagged edges are also a bit annoying but well, I do digital art and I know that it's impossible to make a perfectly straight diagonal line with pixels. I didn't care too much about this issue since the most obvious display was the block changer, but the problem is that the new area is basically composed of surfaces that do this, and pairing that with that annoying fog, it drives my head into migraines. x_x


EDIT: Also, did you change your texture filtering quality to high quality? I will quickly test out if performance causes the issues.

When I set the antialiasing I put it to high quality and as I say I don't get the shimmer anymore, but then it slows down, of course. xD


Also, very important. Make sure you play the game in full screen mode, and not virtual full screen mode. Playing in any form of windowed mode, including virtual full screen reduces your GPU usage. The game will look smoother at lower framerates as well as having a higher framerate.

I play in virtual fullscreen mode with the default settings, but when I try any new setup I switch to true fullcreen. I know that it has a noticeable impact in the performance (although I didn't think it was necessary at first, but now I do).


So I looked up shimmering textures in PSO2 along with a few synonyms for shimmering and I couldn't find anything. Do you have this issue in any other games? If you do, you should make sure your RAM and GPU are seated properly.

The first time you mentioned that I might be using the term incorrectly I searched for it and found a page that showed it perfectly, but it has vanished from the face of internet ever since. I honestly don't remember what were the exact words I used for the search. x_x

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 19, 2013, 03:57 PM
Been thinking of getting a nice 27". I'll get to it later. I'm saving up for bigger things for now.

SociableTyrannosaur
Apr 19, 2013, 03:58 PM
Dude, what the fuck is your problem? You've been all this time, wth your shitty attitude towards me. If you don't have anything useful to say you could keep your remarks to yourself. Yes we all know that you got an awesome GPU and that is better than mine. We don't care. Now go hug it if it makes you happy.



I don't have any program to record it nor any place to upload, but I'll try to show it with screenshots. The block cnahger banner is pretty obvious even like that.

This is with the game's default settings without touching anything in Nvidia Inspector.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i38.tinypic.com/wwkaw9.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/6zmph4.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/166wv3q.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/2s6odxs.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/flhn4x.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/23h8x7c.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/23j07r7.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

I suppose I don't need to point out the issue at all. You can see that the lime green banner there has this sort of waves that constantly shift as my position towards it changes. It happens just by moving the camera as well. Something similar to this happens on Amudiscia cubes surfaces, but it's more difficult to catch on a screenshot because the details are very small.

When I use any sort of MSAA + SGSSAA setting (be it 2x, 4x or 8x) this effect dissapears, the surface is smooth and you gotta look really really carefully to notice any shifting in the texture at all. Amudiscia's cubes don't show any noticeable shift either.

It's possible that I'm making a huge deal out of something silly, but it's pretty much the only thing that jumps to my eyes when I play. The jagged edges are also a bit annoying but well, I do digital art and I know that it's impossible to make a perfectly straight diagonal line with pixels

I didn't care too much about this issue since the most obvious display was the block changer, but the problem is that the new area is basically composed of surfaces that do this and pairing that with that annoying fog, it drives my head into migraines. x_x



When I set the antialiasing I put it to high quality and as I say I don't get the shimmer anymore, but then it slows down, of course. xD



I play in virtual fullscreen mode with the default settings, but when I try any new setup I switch to true fullcreen. I know that it has a noticeable impact in the performance (although I didn't think it was necessary at first, but now I do)

That's what I mean about being too sensitive.

Anyway you can use MSI afterburner to record and upload it to youtube, can't you?