What's wrong with wands?

[Kondibon]

I see a lot of people say wands and/or techers in general aren't very good unless paired with techer. The main argument I hear is that they lack tech charge advanced and pp revival, but since the class seems to be about whacking things when your PP runs out I don't really see the issue there.

The other argument is that wands suck... I don't know where that comes from since I do pretty heafty damage with one on Tori.

Is there something else I'm missing, I know the class has some shortcomings, but it's certainly not terrible and I feel I do better with techer than I do with force.

[fay]

I love wands. Though, they do kinda ruin my class a wee bit considering my melee attacks can do roughly the same, and sometimes more than my spells because of wand gear.

[Kondibon]

I love wands. Though, they do kinda ruin my class a wee bit considering my melee attacks can do roughly the same, and sometimes more than my spells because of wand gear.That's exactly why I'm wondering why people say they suck. D: Techer never felt like a tech spamming class it feels like a melee class that uses techs instead of PAs. OR rather it feels like a class that deals consistent damage instead of burst damage.

[jooozek]

melee without step attack
what the fuck

[Kondibon]

melee without step attack
what the fuck
Is that your only gripe with it? It's pretty easy to use control techs to keep things from getting away or to pull them towards you.

[Zyrusticae]

The one problem with wands is that they do, in fact, cast slower than rods while also having lower T-Atk, which is a double-whammy of suck and fail that is really not very nice.

Other than that, no other class can put out quite as much sustained DPS since the wand gear attacks don't require any PP to spam. Not that anyone really cares when a full squad of Forces can clear everything without ever running out of PP (bosses aside)...

[Gama]

i only wish there was an all class wand.

that would be perfect.

[Kondibon]

Not that anyone really cares when a full squad of Forces can clear everything without ever running out of PP (bosses aside)...

This can be said about a lot of classes, but I agree with the rest for the most part.


i only wish there was an all class wand.

that would be perfect.

There is, but it's an 11* and has a 500 T-atk requirement. :/

[Gardios]

The only problem I have with wands is that they feel clunkier than rods. e_e

[Zenobia]

Never rly cared for the whacking part but when I use wands and run out of PP I never get close I switch to a gunslash and shot a couple of shots and im back to full pp nuff said on that.

[Gardios]

Never rly cared for the whacking part but when I use wands and run out of PP I never get close I switch to a gunslash and shot a couple of shots and im back to full pp nuff said on that.

Might as well use a rod then...

[Kondibon]

Never rly cared for the whacking part but when I use wands and run out of PP I never get close I switch to a gunslash and shot a couple of shots and im back to full pp nuff said on that.Why not just play force then?

[Z-0]

oh boy:

wands have a slight delay after casting which makes their casting speed slower than with any other weapon.
they are generally weaker than rods (added to this, umbra stick is only 8 points less t-atk than the strongest wand, but the casting speed makes up for it -- Baridran Wand and Elysion don't count as you need unearthly amount of S-Atk you lose out in the end)
the melee isn't really -that- powerful. I mean yeah, it has pretty highish numbers, but both melee classes and technique classes easily overpower that. it's not as efficient to melee when things are close and use techniques when ranged are far because these games suck.
also no step attack makes it far less flexible. sure you can use things like zondeel to keep stuff at bay, but that takes more time than a quick step attack. the melee also has low range. this is bad simple because the reason melee classes are actually good is because things like assault buster and sonic arrow exist (and for things like bosses or certain enemies, actual close range shit like Deadly Archer and Over End).

also the "allclass" wand is not allclass, it can only be equipped by force and techer, but needs an unearthly amount of s-atk anyway.

[gigawuts]

This can be said about a lot of classes, but I agree with the rest for the most part.



There is, but it's an 11* and has a 500 T-atk requirement. :/

It's force and techer exclusive.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%83%89

There is no allclass weapon.

The issues with wands go hand in hand with the issues with techer...
Slower animation between casting tech and returning to a state when you can recast
Lower TATK
TE is mediocre as a main, lacking the oomph FO's skilltree offers, meaning a competitive (not necessarily effective, but competitive - even a hunter using exclusively 1* gear can be "effective" in the right hands) tech-using techer must always sub force
Close range-oriented playstyle with no actual unique abilities at close ranges, like mobility PA's and such
The snow banther unit set has better sdef than the ragne unit set, rendering force better for defense to boot

[Kondibon]

That's a derp on my part about Elysion.

I see where you guys are coming from. Maybe I'm just biased because of how low all my classes tend to be. I'll get back on this once I can do... whatever is "endgame" by the time I get that high. As it is right now I don't feel I can make any sort of compelling argument simply because I've not played to very high levels.

[gigawuts]

Try going for a +10 set of red weapons. They're nice and cheap, and can get to 50 element with ease. They help you get a grasp of what everything is capable of.

And, honestly, if you really like wands? Use them anyway. Something is only effective if it's fun enough that you want to keep playing. I play te/fo (mainly because I'm a male cast, lol) and have a blast. After I found an umbra stick, though, it got to be a lot better.

[Kondibon]

Try going for a +10 set of red weapons. They're nice and cheap, and can get to 50 element with ease. They help you get a grasp of what everything is capable of.

And, honestly, if you really like wands? Use them anyway. Something is only effective if it's fun enough that you want to keep playing. I play te/fo (mainly because I'm a male cast, lol) and have a blast. After I found an umbra stick, though, it got to be a lot better.

I just feel like they get a worse rep than they deserve. The problem is that I only have techer at 25 on Tori and don't have it at all on Milla so it's gonna be a while before I can do anything. I'm partly worried that I think they're so good because of the low levels I've played Techer at.

[Sizustar]

Well, wands are cheaper then Rod, so I currently see quite a few people using it.
Since the price for the Forest and Sky island Rod are..quite high.

[Sayara]

my problem as TE is figuring out what to /do/ with the class.
I mean besides spell cast/melee fight whatnot. The tree leaves me in a complicated situation, As i leveled TE, I prioritized Resta advance in the attempts of giving better resta heals and Territory Boost for the same thing.

But as I try to be support-y I die to everything 1 shot because lol FO/TE has 2% def stats.



Though I find myself as an outcast for these discussions as I try to be a "tanky" FO with HU skill tree being tank oriented.

[NoiseHERO]

I like the concept of wands, but if they're gonna have melee as a trump card. I wish they had hunter step. or even an interesting unique step attack incorporated into mirage escape.

Also PAs based around the half melee half magic attack behind wand gear.

I think that'd make up more than enough of it being a slower rod with almost unused S-atk on it.

[gigawuts]

I just feel like they get a worse rep than they deserve. The problem is that I only have techer at 25 on Tori and don't have it at all on Milla so it's gonna be a while before I can do anything. I'm partly worried that I think they're so good because of the low levels I've played Techer at.

Well for techs in current endgame enemies frequently die in 1 or 2 techs. The difference in the wand's TATK can often mean needing another tech to kill something.

It's a bit like hunter. It's not bad. It's just not as good as something else.

Wands are really just weak rods with more melee damage. In many ways fi/fo does that better, with specialized melee and stances to amp up your tech damage, with all of force's better offensive options. If you can get an umbra stick or madame's umbrella you're set for a casting weapon, too.

[MetalDude]

They're also tied to a class that ultimately has no redeeming features besides PP restoration and doesn't even really have an identity outside of the Wand itself.

[Kondibon]

It's a bit like hunter. It's not bad. It's just not as good as something else.


Honestly, this is reasonable and I think it's all I wanted to hear. I really wish playing a support role was more viable in this game though.

[~Aya~]

Techer is a sub imo to buff FO dmg and support capabilities. We need more support options such as jellen/zalure and something to extend range of all buffs/debuff/resta and for the love of god, reverser/revive spell plz. I hate being half ass support class when that is my favorite thing to do in a game.

I want to love techer.. please

[UnLucky]

Techer needs Charge PP Revival to function. PP Restorate and PP Convert and Cetus-Proi and PP Recovery J are all next to useless without Charge PP Revival.

For a Force, or a Te/Fo or a Fo/Te, one second spent charging a technic is one second spent regaining PP. For a Techer without PP Charge Revival, you get no PP regen while charging or casting technics. From the time you start one tech until the moment you JA another tech to start charging that one, you will have gained 0 PP. No matter what passive skills you have, no matter what active skills you have up, no matter what PBs you have in a 12 person chain, no matter what mag trigger action is firing. Zero PP while casting. Period.

A Force with 100 PP can cast Foie 5 times in a row (12 left over), Zan 7 times (9 left over), and Zonde 11 times (12 left over).

A Techer with the same can cast Foie 5 times (0 left over), Zan 5 times (10 left over), and Zonde 4 times (8 left over).

With lv10 PPR, a Fo/Te or Te/Fo can cast:
As many Foies as they want for 30 seconds with PPC lv10 and end with full PP
As many Zans as they want for 30 seconds with PPC lv3 and end with full PP
As many Zondes as they want for 30 seconds with PPC lv1 and end with full PP

With lv10 PPR and lv10 PPC and Cetus-Proi and PP Recovery J, a Techer alone can cast:
Foie 5 times with 0 PP left over
Zan 5 times with 10 PP left over
Zonde 4 times with 8 PP left over

And then the Techer has to wait a few seconds for their PP bar to refill before casting again.:-?

[Kondibon]

Techer needs Charge PP Revival to function. PP Restorate and PP Convert and Cetus-Proi and PP Recovery J are all next to useless without Charge PP Revival.

For a Force, or a Te/Fo or a Fo/Te, one second spent charging a technic is one second spent regaining PP. For a Techer without PP Charge Revival, you get no PP regen while charging or casting technics. From the time you start one tech until the moment you JA another tech to start charging that one, you will have gained 0 PP. No matter what passive skills you have, no matter what active skills you have up, no matter what PBs you have in a 12 person chain, no matter what mag trigger action is firing. Zero PP while casting. Period.

A Force with 100 PP can cast Foie 5 times in a row (12 left over), Zan 7 times (9 left over), and Zonde 11 times (11 left over).

A Techer with the same can cast Foie 5 times (0 left over), Zan 5 times (10 left over), and Zonde 4 times (8 left over).

With lv10 PPR, a Fo/Te or Te/Fo can cast:
As many Foies as they want for 30 seconds with PPC lv10 and end with full PP
As many Zans as they want for 30 seconds with PPC lv3 and end with full PP
As many Zondes as they want for 30 seconds with PPC lv1 and end with full PP

With lv10 PPR and lv10 PPC and Cetus-Proi and PP Recovery J, a Techer alone can cast:
Foie 5 times with 0 PP left over
Zan 5 times with 10 PP left over
Zonde 4 times with 8 PP left over

And then the Techer has to wait a few seconds for their PP bar to refill before casting again.:-?

But as I've said, Techer obviously isn't meant to spam techs. When you run out of PP you hit things. I agree that the PP recovery stuff is pretty useless without subbing FO though.

I feel what they need is a better approach. I know I had some rebuttals to that, but I do think they need one. I feel a lot of people are just playing techer like Force. Of course techer is going to lose out to force in tech spamming.

[Zyrusticae]

or even an interesting unique step attack incorporated into mirage escape.
YES. Make it a flash step/blink or something, SOMETHING that makes them stand out from forces and synergizes with melee combat! They really need it, along with actual PAs that use the wand instead of merely basic attacks.

Alternatively, just fix the damn delay on the wand casting so techers can actually be, y'know, techers on a level with forces...

[UnLucky]

And yet wands are not far and away better at Strike damage to make melee more appealing than spamming techs as a Techer. You get no S-Atk based PAs or skills or anything like that. You only have your normal wand swings, which isn't much stronger than swinging around a Madame's Umbrella instead (without a Hunter sub even).

[The Walrus]

Only way the melee damage even becomes half decent is with Fi sub, but even then it's still meh.

[gigawuts]

Well, techer doesn't bring enough of its own to the table. Force is better at being a force than techer is at being a techer.

If techer had the kind of toolset that fighter does things would be different, but unfortunately it just wasn't given the attention needed for such a different role.

[Gama]

am i the only one tht thinks tht techer is fun?

god i want an all class wand T_T

[Gardios]

You're not. I was pretty much a melee Force before Techer came, so it's only natural I love the class now... :P


And yet wands are not far and away better at Strike damage to make melee more appealing than spamming techs as a Techer. You get no S-Atk based PAs or skills or anything like that. You only have your normal wand swings, which isn't much stronger than swinging around a Madame's Umbrella instead (without a Hunter sub even).
Wand Gear.

[Sizustar]

am i the only one tht thinks tht techer is fun?

god i want an all class wand T_T

Not what I"m seeing~
I've seen alot of player using コムロートール as Techer, probabely because シュミットール is so cheap..

[MetalDude]

I adored playing support/melee FOmarl in PSO. TE is just so pitifully bad on the same fronts in this game.

[Syklo]

Just change the way techers cast techs....

Like some others said, make the class's capabilities synergise with it's melee perks.

[Kondibon]

Only way the melee damage even becomes half decent is with Fi sub, but even then it's still meh.
People keep saying that but I just don't see how it's bad. I do think they need something to spice it up, but saying their damage is "meh" feels like an understatement.


And yet wands are not far and away better at Strike damage to make melee more appealing than spamming techs as a Techer. You get no S-Atk based PAs or skills or anything like that. You only have your normal wand swings, which isn't much stronger than swinging around a Madame's Umbrella instead (without a Hunter sub even).

I still stick with T-atk on my techer since Tori is a newearl anyway, so I'm not going to argue that point. However I'm very certain I can do more damage with wand gear swings than I can with normal attacks from any other weapon.

[UnLucky]

Wand Gear.

Yeah, no, dealing a fixed element attack worth 1/5th of my T-Atk every so often that I charge by casting techs just isn't "far and away better" to me. Without a gear charge, there is no incentive to melee, and any casting is strictly inferior when using a wand.

I'd rather run Fo/Fi with easy Schlacht set and do increased melee damage with faster and stronger close range AoE techs. Literally out techering a Techer.

[Kondibon]

Yeah, no, dealing a fixed element attack worth 1/5th of my T-Atk every so often that I charge by casting techs just isn't "far and away better" to me. Without a gear charge, there is no incentive to melee, and any casting is strictly inferior when using a wand.


You don't see the synergy here? Wands cast weaker techs than forces and don't regen pp while casting but they also don't suddenly do piss poor damage when they run out of PP provided they can stay in melee range, which is why a lot of people are saying they need some kind of gap closer.

But that's how it works Cast Techs until you run out of PP then hit things to get it back with wand gear.

[blace]

I don't really notice the hate wands get, but see a lot of Techers running around with wands than anything. I'll admit, I rarely see any other Techer aside from myself smacking with the wand with wand gear, but we are able to continue to string long attacks without needing to stop and taking a defensive approach while I can stay in the fray.

Granted, the weapon itself isn't very strong, but the gear does make itself useful without having to switch to another weapon.

[Syklo]

You don't see the synergy here? Wands cast weaker techs than forces and don't regen pp while casting but they also don't suddenly do piss poor damage when they run out of PP provided they can stay in melee range, which is why a lot of people are saying they need some kind of gap closer.

But that's how it works Cast Techs until you run out of PP then hit things to get it back with wand gear.
The point is most of the "Tech casters" out there (not including myself) don't stay in melee range and when pp runs out they just grab the gunslash, fire some shots (usually airbourne to ignore reload times) and resume.

PP restored in basically 2 seconds.

That said, I like techer more than force for gameplay.
Instead of Mirage escape though, techer/wands need something quicker or more versatile.....Flash Escape?

[blace]

The point is most of the "Tech casters" out there (not including myself) don't stay in melee range and when pp runs out they just grab the gunslash, fire some shots (usually airbourne to ignore reload times) and resume.

PP restored in basically 2 seconds.

That said, I like techer more than force for gameplay.

It certainly gives the incentive to string together Gi techs with a wand though. Fire off a couple of Gifoie and use whatever heat is built up into smacking with the wand gear is sufficient enough to keep your PP up while dealing consecutive hits.

[Syklo]

It certainly gives the incentive to string together Gi techs with a wand though. Fire off a couple of Gifoie and use whatever heat is built up into smacking with the wand gear is sufficient enough to keep your PP up while dealing consecutive hits.
I usually charge my wand gear with a lined up TPS Foie :D
And that's how I play TE. Combining gear with sucked up enemies (zondeel) increases the bang and pp reward!

I'm not sure why that gives incentive to use gibarta with wand....
Speaking of which, shouldn't the names gibarta and rabarta go the other way round?

[blace]

There isn't much incentive or reward for using barta in general. Other than having an element to use on the mobs in Caves and freezing the Vol Dragons legs, the techs themselves just don't offer enough variety or uses. Sabarta looked promising, but the time it takes to finish its animation is not really worth investing in.

[Kondibon]

There isn't much incentive or reward for using barta in general. Other than having an element to use on the mobs in Caves and freezing the Vol Dragons legs, the techs themselves just don't offer enough variety or uses. Sabarta looked promising, but the time it takes to finish its animation is not really worth investing in.
Sabarta completely stops enemies from moving durring it's animation provided they don't have hyper armor at the time. It's good for big annoying things that you want to keep still like Gawondas. Gibarta's AoE is huge now so it's good for control through staggers if there's a lot of enemies. I use it in mines a lot. Otherwise I agree though. I tend to use Zondeel+zonde to charge my gear since it charges for each hit and Zondeel can hit a lot of enemies easily.

[Renvalt]

Techer to me kinda reminds me of White Mage or Battle Priest. It wasn't designed for the usual Tech spam that Forces are known for, but rather for those who prefer a Caster class that utilizes the full amplification of Tech damage whilst still being good enough to melee.

A jack of all trades, master of none. Has the built-in range of a Force and the close up power of a Hunter, but is only slightly worse than either. That is to say, it will never be a second Hunter or Force, but rather mixes the two into one class that can still call itself a magic using class.

Wands to me remind me of Maces - in the D&D era RPGs, Clerics and Paladins wielded Maces and Blunt weapons. The Wand channels that fact. However, the way that they were designed meant that Clerics weren't meant for getting up close anyways (and people didn't experiment with stuff back then as much as we do today), so people didn't play them that way.

However, Techer reminds me of what a true Battle Priest/Priestess is supposed to be - neither a fighter nor a mage, but a mix of both.

[Enforcer MKV]

am i the only one tht thinks tht techer is fun?

god i want an all class wand T_T

You're not. I don't even care about the lack of balance so many people talk about. I play the class, and have fun. Does the tree need work? Yeah, it could do with a revise. But all in all? The class is a hell of a lot more fun than Force ever was for me, and I get to smack things with a giant spiky hammer while casting light techs.

I'm set. Go go Robo-pally! ~/o/

[UnLucky]

I usually charge my wand gear with a lined up TPS Foie :D
And that's how I play TE. Combining gear with sucked up enemies (zondeel) increases the bang and pp reward!

Force has stronger and faster Foie, stronger and cheaper Zondeel, and PP returned per cast...

Play Force like a Techer and have the time AND resources to cast an extra technic that is more powerful.

[~Aya~]

Try Fo/Te with charged/ja damage boost from FO and maxed wind on TE. That is very OP. Zan ftw

[UnLucky]

Too bad all technic effects vanish when switching weapons, so you can't throw out an AoE or slow traveling tech like (Sa)Megid with a rod, switch to wand to charge the gear, explode faces, then cast off of the rod again.

[MetalDude]

I'd like it more if support wasn't incredibly bad in this game. I can easily acknowledge that I'm not in anyway going to get close to as good results as FO, but support is where TE should be shining and it's just... meh.

[Kondibon]

I'd like it more if support wasn't incredibly bad in this game. I can easily acknowledge that I'm not in anyway going to get close to as good results as FO, but support is where TE should be shining and it's just... meh.

I feel ya there. If Shifta had a much larger AoE and only needed 1 tick for the full time I'd be all over that. Or if talis cards were easier to aim at party mates.
"Dude stay still so I can give you shifta!"
"I can't! This quartz dragon is trying to eat me!"

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Doesn't help that shifta gives at best(and this is being exceedingly generous) a 10% performance increase.

[Syklo]

Force has stronger and faster Foie, stronger and cheaper Zondeel, and PP returned per cast...

Play Force like a Techer and have the time AND resources to cast an extra technic that is more powerful.
It's not the tech casting that I like anyway.
It's the support techs and the wand smacking gear.

[Blundy]

well you're right on the money there renvalt, but the execution (namely our skill tree) is rather all over the place.

[Gardios]

Quick damage test.

[SPOILER-BOX]Gunslash (gun) 503 RATK; x0.6 multiplier
VS Za Oodan
54
54
55
55
55
54
55
56

VS Rockbear
44
44
43
43
43
43
44
43
44
44

Wand 503 SATK; x?, x?, x?
VS Za Oodan
za oodan
137
139
136
139
136
137
139
137
138
139
137
135

VS Rockbear
110
108
111
108
110
107
110
110 95
108 94
107 94 137
109 95 135
111 93 135

-> ~x1.5, x1.3, x1.87 multipliers[/SPOILER-BOX]

So unless I'm dumb, wands have much more power than the stats imply.

[Kondibon]

Quick damage test.

[SPOILER-BOX]Gunslash (gun) 503 RATK; x0.6 multiplier
VS Za Oodan
54
54
55
55
55
54
55
56

VS Rockbear
44
44
43
43
43
43
44
43
44
44

Wand 503 SATK; x?, x?, x?
VS Za Oodan
za oodan
137
139
136
139
136
137
139
137
138
139
137
135

VS Rockbear
110
108
111
108
110
107
110
110 95
108 94
107 94 137
109 95 135
111 93 135

-> ~x1.5, x1.3, x1.87 multipliers[/SPOILER-BOX]

So unless I'm dumb, wands have much more power than the stats imply.Well most weapon attacks have different damage multiplies for each hit. I actually remember testing this and finding out staffs have a higher multiplier on their attacks than partisans. Though in all honesty I would have compared a geared wand to a sword something since I don't expect an ungeared wand to outdamage any heavy hitting weapons.


Doesn't help that shifta gives at best(and this is being exceedingly generous) a 10% performance increase.

A 10% performance increase to your entire party can add up pretty quick when compounded with their own bonuses. Assuming you can get shifta on everyone for the full duration...

[Gardios]

Sword first hit has x1.5 as well, so wands are pretty much on the same level as sword without the Wand Gear.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Quick damage test.

[SPOILER-BOX]Gunslash (gun) 503 RATK; x0.6 multiplier
VS Za Oodan
54
54
55
55
55
54
55
56

VS Rockbear
44
44
43
43
43
43
44
43
44
44

Wand 503 SATK; x?, x?, x?
VS Za Oodan
za oodan
137
139
136
139
136
137
139
137
138
139
137
135

VS Rockbear
110
108
111
108
110
107
110
110 95
108 94
107 94 137
109 95 135
111 93 135

-> ~x1.5, x1.3, x1.87 multipliers[/SPOILER-BOX]

So unless I'm dumb, wands have much more power than the stats imply.

While that might be true, you have to remember PAs and Gears on melee while comparing teching as a whole.

Melee with wand is not BAD it's just comparatively worse than everything else.

[Gardios]

Even if Hunter and Fighter can deal more damage with PAs (+Gears) than Techer can do with Techniques, they should be able to make up the damage difference (or at least greatly reduce it) with their own Gear.

Techer is not as bad as people make them out to be is what I'm trying to say (and you seem to agree), but they make up for it with their utility.

[~Aya~]

I just don't see the point in meleeing as techer unless you want pp return. I've 3 trees as techer. One for wind, another for dark, and finally full support. (Shifta/deband/resta/territory burst/pp recovery)


The elemental builds would also include elemental weakness at the bottom of the middle tree. I just run out and swap trees when needed and it lets me test the potential of each element.

[fires2dust]

I've always hated using a gunslash as a FO. So when wands came in, I was like, hell yeah!

Relying on a force's r-atk and s-atk just to regenerate PP? I'd rather not. I prefer using wand gear tech explosions with light elemental. That, and I don't use up a weapon slot just for a gunslash nor do I need to switch weapons.

But I'm not one to complain if more prefer rods. It makes wands cheaper and easier to acquire. :D

[MetalDude]

Shooting with a Gunslash literally takes all of maybe 2 seconds to fill up your PP and you don't have to compromise range at all unless you're really far away. You're not using it for the damage payout; it's to save you a ton of time.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

if you're going to melee to regen PP rod does that just as well as wand. plus between PP Convert, PP restorate, PP restore J and Cetus Proj, you won't be hurting for PP often


Even if Hunter and Fighter can deal more damage with PAs (+Gears) than Techer can do with Techniques, they should be able to make up the damage difference (or at least greatly reduce it) with their own Gear.

Techer is not as bad as people make them out to be is what I'm trying to say (and you seem to agree), but they make up for it with their utility.

But that's just it, every time I talk about wand damage I assume we're including W/Gear cause why else would you wand to begin with?

[Gardios]

Better sustained damage as opposed to burst damage most other classes have.


I just don't see the point in meleeing as techer unless you want pp return.
Meleeing is where half of the damage comes from. If you're just teching, might as well pick Force. And if you just want the support boost, subbing it is sufficient.

Not meleeing kind of defeats the purpose of being a battle mage.

[~Aya~]

Better sustained damage as opposed to burst damage most other classes have.


Meleeing is where half of the damage comes from. If you're just teching, might as well pick Force. And if you just want the support boost, subbing it is sufficient.

Not meleeing kind of defeats the purpose of being a battle mage.



It isn't a battle mage. Give techers jellen and zalure and then you can call them that.

[Gardios]

Not having debuff techs doesn't mean they're not battle mages—they're close-combat fighters that rely on magic, that's pretty much the definition of a battle mage.

[MetalDude]

They're just not very good battle mages is all.

[BlueCast Boy]

Well I do alot of damage when I'm using wands melee with wand gear especially that the damage of anything I cast and my melee is abit more damaging than my cast. I guess Cast are much better on Techers than in force.

[Tenlade]

The best use ive found so far for techer is to subclass fighter, as techs make it a lot easier to inflict status for chase advance.

Of course once hunter gets buffed , it will just end up being more damage to main fighter and sub hunter.

as much as i hate to say it, having leveled techer to 55, gotten a 10* wand grinded to the max, and having a split t-atk/s-atk mag since subclasses were announced, Techer is an attempt to mix two class styles in a game that designed to strongly discourage it.

[yoshiblue]

The FOmar/marl class.

[UnLucky]

If half of your damage is coming from melee, then you're outputting half as much as a Force.

Quick damage test:
[SPOILER-BOX]lv35 Yede on its weak point, no JA:
Madame's Umbrella (23 ice) 791 total S-Atk listed in character info
478 crit
397 crit
530ish who cares

Elder Rod (27 light) 699 total S-Atk listed
282 crit, no modifier per swing

Vardha Bit (35 fire) 1079 total T-Atk listed
280 crit, and yes, cards are based off of T-Atk

Magical Wand (30 fire) 761 total S-Atk listed
500ish
419 crit
620 crit[/SPOILER-BOX]

and then a Snow Banther spawned on me and I died trying to put on my units :L

Course, an unboosted Rafoie does like 1k+ with 912 T-Atk using the same wand. With masteries, tech advances, and EWH, your wand's melee damage is completely outclassed by your techs.

[Blackheart521]

If half of your damage is coming from melee, then you're outputting half as much as a Force.

Quick damage test:
[SPOILER-BOX]lv35 Yede on its weak point, no JA:
Madame's Umbrella (23 ice) 791 total S-Atk listed in character info
478 crit
397 crit
530ish who cares

Elder Rod (27 light) 699 total S-Atk listed
282 crit, no modifier per swing

Vardha Bit (35 fire) 1079 total T-Atk listed
280 crit, and yes, cards are based off of T-Atk

Magical Wand (30 fire) 761 total S-Atk listed
500ish
419 crit
620 crit[/SPOILER-BOX]

and then a Snow Banther spawned on me and I died trying to put on my units :L

Course, an unboosted Rafoie does like 1k+ with 912 T-Atk using the same wand. With masteries, tech advances, and EWH, your wand's melee damage is completely outclassed by your techs.

What if you were going for more melee? Has anybody tested the TE/FI or TE/HU combo's capabilities in comparison to other melee? Everyone is always comparing it to FO.

[Alisha]

i think some of you just dont understand some techer players DO NOT WANT TO BE A FORCE. i love the close range style of using wands and zan techs. point blank zan and nazan is great. boost your wind masteries and use a wand with wind. i dont care if i run out of pp because i want to melee. as te/fi can take full Advantage of chase advance. i was about to give up on this playstyle till they added a new wand that requires s-atk.

[Syklo]

i think some of you just dont understand some techer players DO NOT WANT TO BE A FORCE. i love the close range style of using wands and zan techs. point blank zan and nazan is great. boost your wind masteries and use a wand with wind. i dont care if i run out of pp because i want to melee. as te/fi can take full Advantage of chase advance. i was about to give up on this playstyle till they added a new wand that requires s-atk.
This.
Freaking this.

Keep saying that forces can tech more efficiently.....so what?
Forces can smack a rod to gain pp just like the wands do.....so what?
IT'S NOT ABOUT EITHER OF THEM.
IT'S ABOUT THE FKIN MELEE ITSELF

It's fun to play for some of us, and that's all that matters to some of us.

[UnLucky]

What if you were going for more melee? Has anybody tested the TE/FI or TE/HU combo's capabilities in comparison to other melee? Everyone is always comparing it to FO.

That's why I tested the Madame's Umbrella, an all-class sword.

Imagine Te/Fi as a Fighter, only without any PAs, and a knuckle-like weapon with less S-Atk. And doesn't have a Hunter sub to increase its melee damage and survivability.

A Te/Hu is like a Hunter, only without any PAs, and a sword-like weapon with less S-Atk. And doesn't have a Fighter sub to increase all of its damage immensely.

[gigawuts]

i think some of you just dont understand some techer players DO NOT WANT TO BE A FORCE. i love the close range style of using wands and zan techs. point blank zan and nazan is great. boost your wind masteries and use a wand with wind. i dont care if i run out of pp because i want to melee. as te/fi can take full Advantage of chase advance. i was about to give up on this playstyle till they added a new wand that requires s-atk.

We know that.

It does not mean techers magically have a good enough toolset to give them a different and equally good playstyle. They have all the flaws of melee with none of the bandaids, with weak techs patched over the top.

[Zenobia]

Might as well use a rod then...

Both of you Missed my point completely why would you would you whack to get pp back anyway?

Yes i understand the wand gear sure,but gunslash gets that done int just a few shots keeping you out of harms way and letting you get back to casting this goes for rods as well again nuff said.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

i think some of you just dont understand some techer players DO NOT WANT TO BE A FORCE. i love the close range style of using wands and zan techs. point blank zan and nazan is great. boost your wind masteries and use a wand with wind. i dont care if i run out of pp because i want to melee. as te/fi can take full Advantage of chase advance. i was about to give up on this playstyle till they added a new wand that requires s-atk.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

What you want to do and what is most efficient are not the same argument. In fact, your personal preferences aren't even up for debate and never should be. You could prefer being clubbed in the head while being jammed in the eye with a hot poker. Doesn't make it healthier than eating an apple.

Te can melee better than Fo, but Fo can tech better than Te can Melee and Tech combined with wand.

Wanna play techer? No one is stopping you, but that doesn't make it more valid just cause you prefer the playstyle. You're arguing for personal validation, not for the class. Dont want to contribute to the party as much as others? then don't. just don't say you are to make yourself feel better, cause you're going to be laughed at.

Wand is all around a worse weapon than rod, play style has nothing to do with it.

As far as techer, the whole class' skill tree is messed up. It's designed to be a subclass to Fo or to have Fo as its sub. Its own passive PP regen skills can't be used properly without force. What does that tell you?

Even if you want to tech and melee - say main Hu or Fi - Fo is a superior subclass due to effectively lower PP costs on all techs, significantly cheaper bolt techs, faster fire techs (including shifta) and higher damage output. Those same flaws with techer's skill tree apply when playing Hu/Te or Fi/Te - that is lower damage, more expensive bolt techs and no passive PP regen when charging. Flipping it and running Te/Fi results in an equally flawed techer with higher raw damage than Te/Fo but no sustainability outside of swinging your wand around with no PAs to modify damage resulting in a weaker melee than Hu/Fi or Fi/Hu, a worse caster than Fo/Te, Te/Fo or Fo/Fi and still lower all around damage than any of those.

Why pick techer EXCEPT for its play style, which in the context of the game under its current build has lower yields and is less effective than equipping a Talis or Umblla Stick and playing it exactly like force?

This is why some of us caution new players that techer and wand are less effective. Do whatever the fuck you want just don't qualify it by trying to pass off personal preference as fact as though 2+2 = 5 just cause you like 5 more than 4.

[~Aya~]

This is why people don't take you seriously.

What you want to do and what is most efficient are not the same argument.

Te can melee better than Fo, but Fo can tech better than Te can Melee and Tech combined with wand.

Wanna play techer? No one is stopping you, but that doesn't make it more valid just cause you prefer the playstyle. You're arguing for personal validation, not for the class. Dont want to contribute to the party as much as others? then don't. just don't say you are to make yourself feel better, cause you're going to be laughed at.

Wand is all around a worse weapon than rod, play style has nothing to do with it.

As far as techer, the whole class' skill tree is messed up. It's designed to be a subclass to Fo or to have Fo as its sub. Its own passive PP regen skills can't be used properly without force. What does that tell you?

Even if you want to tech and melee - say main Hu or Fi - Fo is a superior subclass due to effectively lower PP costs on all techs, significantly cheaper bolt techs, faster fire techs (including shifta) and higher damage output. Those same flaws with techer's skill tree apply when playing Hu/Te or Fi/Te - that is lower damage, more expensive bolt techs and no passive PP regen when charging. Flipping it and running Te/Fi results in an equally flawed techer with higher raw damage than Te/Fo but no sustainability outside of swinging your wand around with no PAs to modify damage resulting in a weaker melee melee than Hu/Fi or Fi/Hu, a worse caster than Fo/Te, Te/Fo or Fo/Fi and still lower all around damage than any of those.

Why pick techer EXCEPT for its play style, which in the context of the game under its current build has lower yields and is less effective than equipping a Talis or Umblla Stick and playing it exactly like force?

This is why some of us caution new players that techer and wand are less effective. Do whatever the fuck you want just don't qualify it by trying to pass off personal preference as fact as though 2+2 = 5 just cause you like 5 more than 4.


This should be the end of this thread. Nuff said.

[Zenobia]

I will never understand why ppl hit things with wands to get pp back or do it period unless you like to see flashy fireworks because of the gear more power to ya but all in all you rly shouldn't be melee'ing with TE/FO with those wands not saying ya can't but hey if you wanna increase your death counts go ahead.

[blace]

I will never understand why ppl hit things with wands to get pp back or do it period unless you like to see flashy fireworks because of the gear more power to ya but all in all you rly shouldn't be melee'ing with TE/FO with those wands not saying ya can't but hey if you wanna increase your death counts go ahead.
I don't know about you, but I keep aware of my surroundings when I do just that.

It's for the playstyle that makes it fun to use rather than relying wholly on the techs at your disposal.

[UnLucky]

This should be the end of this thread. Nuff said.

Lock it up and throw away the key, nothing is left unsaid.

[Sizustar]

Both of you Missed my point completely why would you would you whack to get pp back anyway?

Yes i understand the wand gear sure,but gunslash gets that done int just a few shots keeping you out of harms way and letting you get back to casting this goes for rods as well again nuff said.

Because to them that's more in character and more fun then switching to another weapon?
Some people play game to whack monster, not worrying about every stat point, etc.

[Zenobia]

I don't know about you, but I keep aware of my surroundings when I do just that.

It's for the playstyle that makes it fun to use rather than relying wholly on the techs at your disposal.

News flash both of you I do the same and sense I don't melee with it like you do I get my casts off more than the next person increasing my efficiency.

Yeah we will call it Personal play style as you said and don't know about you but i like to play with efficiency not for FUN.

Wanna whack enemies go play HU.

[~Aya~]

If you wanna have some serious fun whacking monsters then i'd suggest wired lance/twin daggers.


You look like a bawse while using PA

[blace]

There's no real fun in that when there is a class and weapon with a gear made for it.

Yes, PAs from a proper melee weapon would output more than a Techer with a wand and its gear, but for the sake of what was made available for the class, you can stick with it. Otherwise, you are better off playing as Force.

[Zenobia]

There's no real fun in that when there is a class and weapon with a gear made for it.

Yes, PAs from a proper melee weapon would output more than a Techer with a wand and its gear, but for the sake of what was made available for the class, you can stick with it. Otherwise, you are better off playing as Force.

Wand gear is optional you can operate just as good without having it I know played around with it enough to know wand gear is just some whack gimmick to make it just what it is to you fun.

[blace]

As said, it does have its uses. Ignore them all you want, but it is for the play style if anything as a Techer. Efficiency is a different matter and there are various ways to get the most out of it, but there are times when whacking things with a club has that feeling to it that doesn't come with using a gunslash and shooting at your target.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I think we're well past the point where this is going to go around in circles with the same people saying the same things and no one actually picking up on what's being said.

Wand users:

I prefer the style, even if force/rod are more effective. I willingly trade in a portion of my tech speed and overall DPS for the right to swing cudgels.

Everyone else:

If you're not playing for efficiency why are we even discussing this?


...So why ARE we still discussing this?

[Zenobia]

I thought we pointed it out alrdy that it evolved around play style.

I know that but you know as well as I do how better it is meant to be played there is no sugar coating that shit nor is there a reason to twist it around to make what i said wrong.

Only use wand gear has is it hits harder and even more with said element applied ofc if its against the enemies weakness now if you got like 6 or w/e damn element wands to use on the enemies weakness when you melee then have at em.

Also pretty sure the monster aren't having that same feeling either.

@Social shush you baddie off with chu~.

[blace]

...So why ARE we still discussing this?
Because this is PSO-World and everything must be dragged on as long as possible, until a mod locks the thread or spam/flaming happens.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I thought we pointed it out alrdy that it evolved around play style.

I know that but you know as well as I do how better it is meant to be played there is no sugar coating that shit nor is there a reason to twist it around to make what i said wrong.

Only use wand gear has is it hits harder and even more with said element applied ofc if its against the enemies weakness now if you got like 6 or w/e damn element wands to use on the enemies weakness when you melee then have at em.

Also pretty sure the monster aren't having that same feeling either.

@Social shush you baddie off with chu~.

I love you too

[UnLucky]

And here I am again repeating myself.

You want to be a melee/teching hybrid without any PAs?

Main Force.

Use a rod.

Melee mobs.

Cast AoEs.

Deal more damage than a Techer ever could, doing exactly the same thing a Techer would.

[~Aya~]

Not sure if dey should cuz that wouldn't fly in da hood

[Zenobia]

And here I am again repeating myself.

You want to be a melee/teching hybrid without any PAs?

Main Force.

Use a rod.

Melee mobs.

Cast AoEs.

Deal more damage than a Techer ever could, doing exactly the same thing a Techer would.

YOU ARE THE TAPE RECORDER~

[SociableTyrannosaur]

It's served me pretty well so far.

But I'm pretty damned hood

[UnLucky]

*beep* wands suck *beep* wands suck *beeep* you have five new messages *click*

[ShinMaruku]

I just feel like they get a worse rep than they deserve. The problem is that I only have techer at 25 on Tori and don't have it at all on Milla so it's gonna be a while before I can do anything. I'm partly worried that I think they're so good because of the low levels I've played Techer at.
Of course they get a worse rep than the deserve they can cause sampling bias.

[Coatl]

Just wait until the day some techer rolls up into your hood with some super pimped up elsyium and outperforms you as a FO/TE. While techer still is generally inferior to FO/TE, it can still has the capability to outperform it in terms of gear.

Now if only Sega would stop releasing wands that require s-atk..

[SociableTyrannosaur]

lolwhat? 20 points difference in T Atk = better? When wand is still a slower casting weapon?

and if you wanna start pulling uber rare gear...

Psycho Wand

nuff said

[Coatl]

lolwhat? 20 points difference in T Atk = better? When wand is still a slower casting weapon?

and if you wanna start pulling uber rare gear...

Psycho Wand

nuff said

Where are you pulling 20-atk from? The situation I was prescribing was more like a TE/FO with elsyium vs a FO/TE with a *7 red rod. Also, I like how psychowand would truly be the best wand for techer, because it's not a wand at all.

[Gama]

Just wait until the day some techer rolls up into your hood with some super pimped up elsyium and outperforms you as a FO/TE. While techer still is generally inferior to FO/TE, it can still has the capability to outperform it in terms of gear.

Now if only Sega would stop releasing wands that require s-atk..


sega could keep releasing wands with S-atk requirements if they were meant for hybrid classes.

FI/TE would probbably profit from it.

or R-ATK requirements for RA/TE or GU/TE


Cmon sega gib all class wands.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Where are you pulling 20-atk from? The situation I was prescribing was more like a TE/FO with elsyium vs a FO/TE with a *7 red rod. Also, I like how psychowand would truly be the best wand for techer, because it's not a wand at all.

Why on earth would you compare an uber rare 11* to a 1050 meseta 7*?

Did you or did you not say forces would be jealous of techers running around with a wand? You threw out an 11* wand saying forces would be upset. Compare that wand's stats to the best 10* rods.

Then compare it to the best rod which drops from the same location.

Consistency

[Coatl]

Did you or did you not say forces would be jealous of techers running around with a wand?

Also why on earth would you compare an uber rare 11* to a 1050 meseta 7*?


Just wait until the day some techer rolls up into your hood with some super pimped up elsyium and outperforms you as a FO/TE. While techer still is generally inferior to FO/TE, it can still has the capability to outperform it in terms of gear.

I thought through my word choice I could make a point while still incorporating comical effect. Clearly I've failed. :-? My bad.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Just wait until the day some techer rolls up into your hood with some super pimped up elsyium and outperforms you as a FO/TE. While techer still is generally inferior to FO/TE, it can still has the capability to outperform it in terms of gear.

Now if only Sega would stop releasing wands that require s-atk..


Humorous as this statement might be in NO way does this lend itself to selling the joke you claim to have attempted.

[Gama]

Forces are made for damage

Techers are made for support.

so obviously techer cant outperform force.

as force shouldnt be able to outperform techer in its specific task "support" since techer still lacks decent support features. we will have to wait for it to be turned into a better class.

[Coatl]

we will have to wait for it to be turned into a better class.

yes...one new s-atk requiring wand at a time, right? I wonder if sega even knows techer is in a terrible state.

[~Aya~]

yes...one new s-atk requiring wand at a time, right? I wonder if sega even knows techer is in a terrible state.


Ah but you see. This is Sega's punishment to FO for supposedly being too OP. We're too lazy to balance so let's gimp the potential subclass!! Lulz!! Now about dat Faita....

[Enforcer MKV]

...So why ARE we still discussing this?

Because PSOw and each side trying to get the last say in?

[~Aya~]

Because PSOw and each side trying to get the last say in?



I see what you did there. +1 more post.