Best Subclass for Force?

[MissFormidable]

Well, I've been play PSO2 since the OB, Took a nice long break and came back to new EXP tables and Subclasses. So, What kind of subclass is the best to have for a force main? Right now I am a FoTe but 'm always looking to change and better myself and what not.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Fo/Te and Fo/Fi are both really good.

Te makes for more sustainable damage. Fi makes for higher damage per second in bursts but it's less sustainable.

Check out the build thread for more info.

[holmwood]

The usual's either Fo/Te or Fo/Fi.

Your preference lies in the playstyle; dps is not far off. (unless you generally face the enemy from the back of which Fo/Fi is far far stronger. Most bosses turn their bodies towards you fast though.)

Fo/Te can easily do playstyles like strike> tech> strike> tech spam (with a rod) while Fo/Fi will have to strike twice every other cast to maintain that. Generally, Fo/Te can pull off more techs within a time frame than Fo/Fi; this ranges from 114% more tech executions (foie) to 125% (zonde).

Fo/Fi mainly remain at a distance, alternating between gunslash shooting to regenerate full PP and then quickly depleting PP with a barrage of techs. Strike + Strike>Tech> strike spamming is not that efficient from my experience. They win in terms of damage per tech.

Personally, I would go with Fo/Fi and low pp techs like Lightning and Wind depending on the situation. You don't really have to worry about elemental weakness... and generally, several weak points are easier to access with lightning due to it hitting the top of the enemy. (Example: De Mammoth's little horn at the topic can be "autotargetted" fairly easily with zonde) As a Fo/Te, you do lose in DPS to a Fo/Fi if you're not using elemental weak techs, but doing so will make it difficult to reach some weak points = dps loss.


Edit:
If you want to do calculations yourself, this is what I generally found.
-122PP
Tech sub: Foie (8 casts) Zonde (15 casts)
Fi sub: Foie (7 casts) Zonde (12 casts)

-Full PP regeneration of 122 PP with gunslash: both of them takes approximately 4 rounds (finding ways to find more accurate measurement). Might have to take into account enemy proximity since gunslash sprays at longer distances. Fo/Fi should generally keep their distance due to the reasons aforementioned, so that's something to take into account. Yes, the theory is that Techer's regen pp faster. That is true if you have massive amounts of PP to regenerate, but only by a second or two. With 122 PP, I see very negligible difference.

-Passives?
Tech sub: 1.2x for elemental weak hit, and using attributes corresponding to enemy weakness gives 1.2x-1.3x depending on the enemy.
Source is from japanese wiki under 部位倍率: http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E5%B1%9E%E6%80%A7%E5%BC%B7%E5%8C%96
Fighter sub: 1.44x from brave stance is generally used. Elemental weakness is often ignored in favor of higher lightning damage by the Japanese users I've played with.

-With enough PP and a high enough PP convert, techers can be able to sustain themselves for a VERY long time without resorting to PP regen by gunslash. Of course, your pp pool may not be able to counteract the 90 second down time between PP converts, but it may be able to reduce it to 45-60 seconds of downtime with all the excess PP you get after PP convert ends. Maybe less? I need more PP to test that.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

...do you even play a force class?

[MissFormidable]

Thank you so much for your advice and tips ^_^ I'll do some more poking around and getting down to some hardcore class leveling once summer vacation arrives. I asked because I see alot of Force mixes on pso2 and was generally confused.. lol.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

A lot of people sub fo because they want to use techs in addition to whatever else, but if you want to use techs exclusively, Te and Fi are the best.

[UnLucky]

...do you even play a force class?

Not sure why that was necessary, he's not that far off.

Fo/Te is the logical progression since you unlock Techer by leveling Force. To get Fighter, you must first level up Hunter.

What you can get out of it is some extra passive PP regen, an active PP regen skill, Deband Cut (5-15% damage reduction with active Deband buff), and Territory Burst (increased support spell range while active).

In terms of damage, a Fo/Te has to target the enemy's elemental weakness in order to get any extra bonus over Force alone. It's more limiting and provides a smaller damage boost than Fighter's Brave Stance, and obviously Wise Stance when you can use it. And no, Shifta Advance/Critical do not close the gap in any reasonable amount.

Because of that, a Fo/Te's Force tree would have to be more generalized for at least two different elements. A Fo/Fi can go entirely into only one and still see better damage against all enemy types, although the option to generalize is still available.

As for the rod melee PP regen, you can definitely sustain tech>melee>tech longer as a Fo/Te than as Fo/Fi, but definitely not forever either way, especially when using flame techs, of which Safoie would be a prime candidate. As either Fo/Te or Fo/Fi, you'll still want to switch to a gunslash at a distance or against a single target, or use your rod against multiple mobs up close.

[holmwood]

Some other things to take into consideration (not super essential info):

-Wired lance can also be an alternative to gunslash for those less agile bosses of which fo/fi offers more mobility due to step attack. Definitely possible with Fo/Te, but seems harder from my experience. I find that against multiple enemies, you run the risk of getting mobbed to death by enemies with more super armour. The alternative is using a wired lance which DOES offer better pp regen per cycle (28 pp per cycle compared to rod's and gunslash's 20 pp ) and does have better reach (less chance to get mobbed snd more mobs hit per attack).

-Fo/Te is awesome at mob clearing due to territory burst and the tech zondeel. Great for farming PSE bursts in Advanced quests, especially with bolt pp save. In parties, Fo/Fi's zondeel casts are not as efficient because mobs in range may not be oriented properly for Brave stance to apply, especially if they're focused on a party member.

-Fo/Fi is superior to Fo/Te in moving across the map. The top methods of movement at the moment is the knuckle dash (possible with twin daggers also) and 持ち替え. Both methods can be found on youtube. 持ち替え is combined with step attack for the fastest movement Ive seen so far (4consecutive dashes without delay).

-If you've considered Fo/Gu for attack pp restorate or Fo/Ra for weak bullet, don't. You lose out tremendously in dps because of your lack of damage multipliers from your subclasses (that applies to techs). I tried both of them for two weeks... It was fun, but terrible. :X I havent tried Fo/Hu yet, but it has the same issue as the other two I suspect.

-Fo/Te may allow you to use much better rods than Fo/Fi if you've messed up on your mag. :X My 88 tech mag is limiting my Fo/Fi to just Elder Rod for instance.... can't use any of the new AQ rods.

[Syklo]

Some other things to take into consideration (not super essential info):

-Wired lance can also be an alternative to gunslash for those less agile bosses of which fo/fi offers more mobility due to step attack. Definitely possible with Fo/Te, but seems harder from my experience. I find that against multiple enemies, you run the risk of getting mobbed to death by enemies with more super armour. The alternative is using a wired lance which DOES offer better pp regen per cycle (28 pp per cycle compared to rod's and gunslash's 20 pp ) and does have better reach (less chance to get mobbed snd more mobs hit per attack).


FYI, Wired lance is for hunters, not fighters.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Not sure why that was necessary, he's not that far off.

Fo/Te is the logical progression since you unlock Techer by leveling Force. To get Fighter, you must first level up Hunter.

What you can get out of it is some extra passive PP regen, an active PP regen skill, Deband Cut (5-15% damage reduction with active Deband buff), and Territory Burst (increased support spell range while active).

In terms of damage, a Fo/Te has to target the enemy's elemental weakness in order to get any extra bonus over Force alone. It's more limiting and provides a smaller damage boost than Fighter's Brave Stance, and obviously Wise Stance when you can use it. And no, Shifta Advance/Critical do not close the gap in any reasonable amount.

Because of that, a Fo/Te's Force tree would have to be more generalized for at least two different elements. A Fo/Fi can go entirely into only one and still see better damage against all enemy types, although the option to generalize is still available.

As for the rod melee PP regen, you can definitely sustain tech>melee>tech longer as a Fo/Te than as Fo/Fi, but definitely not forever either way, especially when using flame techs, of which Safoie would be a prime candidate. As either Fo/Te or Fo/Fi, you'll still want to switch to a gunslash at a distance or against a single target, or use your rod against multiple mobs up close.

The tech melee tech melee thing rubbed me the wrong way >_>

[Coatl]

I'm starting to think FO/FI is superior to FO/TE after messing with the two combinations for the longest time. Now, hear me out.

With a pure tech mag and a good *10 rod at +10 included with at least 60 t-atk on every unit/weapon, I'm able to one shot weak enemies such as oodans and gulfs with zonde and two-shot bigger enemies such as Za oodans and Fangulfs as a FO/FI. You really won't miss the PP because at the pace at which you kill things your photon blast will be activating very quickly, and during a burst it is very much possible to have infinite PP through the entire burst if you kill things fast enough and maintain your mag blast. Of course, this requires a lot more effort than just going lol derp zonde spam as FO/TE, but it's very much effective I think.

[Bellion]

As someone that only has a pure fire and hybrid FO trees, I prefer /TE for AQs more. I'd probably change my mind if I had a pure Zonde tree. Only have 5 in Bolt PP Save, and maxing that out would make casting Zonde spells much more cheaper.

For any VH quest, I'd take /FI anyday, though.

[UnLucky]

The tech melee tech melee thing rubbed me the wrong way >_>
I do it every time I have Wise on. The hitstun makes Wondas and Yedes extra big jokes.


FYI, Wired lance is for hunters, not fighters.
Well, you'd use an all-class one, and it would just be for PP regen, although it had the exact same PP restored per hit as rod and gunslash (5, 6[3x2], 9) before the Hunter weapon change. An interesting middle ground, but I doubt its effectiveness. GS is still much faster for pure regen, and rod is still more useful since you can have techs active while swinging it.

[holmwood]

I do it every time I have Wise on. The hitstun makes Wondas and Yedes extra big jokes.


Well, you'd use an all-class one, and it would just be for PP regen, although it had the exact same PP restored per hit as rod and gunslash (5, 6[3x2], 9) before the Hunter weapon change. An interesting middle ground, but I doubt its effectiveness. GS is still much faster for pure regen, and rod is still more useful since you can have techs active while swinging it.

Well its the range Im looking at. If we were going to go into the range of a GS, I think a double saber would be preferable. 37 pp for normal attack sequence, 15 for step attack. With double saber legacy and level 3 potential, you can have 48 pp for normal attack cycle and 20 for step attack. But you would have to evade... which wouldn't be preferable for a squishy force user due to the low margin of error.

But really, I just want to use the ファティウーマ wired lance. :roll:
Gunslash and rod striking, overall, does its job well. Its just boring. XD

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Edit: putting dps aside, part of what drew me to Fo/Fi was the fact that I can use any techs I want and can do pretty good damage. I wouldn't be confined to a single element for a quest, and I can mix and match techs per weapon slot. It gives you more freedom is mypoint. Im terribly sorry if this is becoming another Fo/Fi vs Fo/Te thread. I know we already have a thread for that... :(