Phantasy Star Online 2 delayed in North America

[Limni]

Seems it was obvious but at least the silence has been broken for now.


Phantasy Star Online 2, Sonic Team's online action-RPG which launched for Windows PCs in Japan last July, has been delayed in North America, publisher Sega told Polygon today.

The game never received a formal release date in North America, only being targeted for an "early 2013" release. Considering we're nearly out of the first quarter of the year with no word on the title's release plans, it seemed unlikely that the game would hit that goal, despite being playable last year at PAX Prime.

"Originally slated for an early 2013 launch, SEGA can officially confirm that PS02 has been delayed," a Sega spokesperson told Polygon. "We don't have any specifics but will update everyone as soon as there are more details to share."

The title was also ported to Japanese PS Vitas in February of this year.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/25/4146658/phantasy-star-online-2-delayed-in-north-america-sega-confirms

[Enforcer MKV]

Commence table flipping....now.

[Perle]

Thanks a bunch, Gearbox.

[~Aya~]

YOU DONT SAY?¿


This much was obvious from the start. (Directed towards sega)

What in the unholy name of ass is this? They don't even have a single detail aside from not making the intended release datee? Update us? Don't make me raugh.

[BIG OLAF]

What a revelation.

[UnLucky]

"We don't have any specifics but will update everyone as soon as there are more details to share."
Look forward to our next announcement concerning the Western release of PSO2 at PAX 2014!

[ashley50]

'bout time!

A solid proof to slap onto the "When" question. :3

[Lostbob117]

I said somewhere before that they'll tell us when they have something interesting to tell. Guess I was right about that.

[supersonix9]

you would expect like 20 pages of posts in this thread within the first minute, considering the dozens of threads questioning the release.

[Xaeris]

Well, at least they said something, even if it was the bleeding obvious.

[EvilMag]

They're waiting for Kion and AIDA to finish translating the rest of the game.

[Noc Codez]

Ok first off can we get this as a sticky? And this means a year or more behind content.. It's good that sega hasn't learned anything from PSU.. I expect the same crap drip feed in content with bad customer support next..

[Massaki]

Maybe now people will stop making new threads about when it's coming out.

Oh, who am I kidding, it probably won't.

[Arrow]

News? On PSO2 release?
WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?!?!
Now if you excuse me, I must kiss the person that gave us this thing called news.
...and then kill them painfully... for delaying the release.
Though I'm not suprised by it because many a great game was delayed. i.e. LoZ TP.

[Lostbob117]

Ok first off can we get this as a sticky? And this means a year or more behind content.. It's good that sega hasn't learned anything from PSU.. I expect the same crap drip feed in content with bad customer support next..

Doesn't really matter how far behind they are from content really, as long it is your first time playing pso2 on the NA server it'll feel all new and fresh. But that's not the case with most of us cause we play the jp server so if we start of where jp started when it came out on the NA server we'll get fed up and just go back to the jp server. Which wasn't expected of a good majority us to go on the jp server of pso2.

[Noc Codez]

Doesn't really matter how far behind they are from content really, as long it is your first time playing pso2 on the NA server it'll feel all new and fresh. But that's not the case with most of us cause we play the jp server so if we start of where jp started when it came out on the NA server we'll get fed up and just go back to the jp server. Which wasn't expected of a good majority us to go on the jp server of pso2.

Oh it matters.. People on psu always looked here for psu JP updates and got very furious on the delayed content on psu. Some even raged on the official forums on sega.
Ofcourse if your just a ghost and never looked at pso-world I would agree with you but most fans know of this site and the rage in content will continue :)

[Cagedtaytay]

.....
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
-flips all of the tables-

[Noc Codez]

.....
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
-flips all of the tables-

Get the meme ! It'll be funny lol

[EvilMag]

Oh it matters.. People on psu always looked here for psu JP updates and got very furious on the delayed content on psu. Some even raged on the official forums on sega.
Ofcourse if your just a ghost and never looked at pso-world I would agree with you but most fans know of this site and the rage in content will continue :)
Its funny how people seem to forget about the ragefest that happened on July 2011 when Edward said PSU 360 was a "unique version" of PSU. Good times.

Also fuck SoA.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

k

1234

[Noc Codez]

Its funny how people seem to forget about the ragefest that happened on July 2011 when Edward said PSU 360 was a "unique version" of PSU. Good times.

Also fuck SoA.

Couldn't agree with you more.. Lol unique.. Yea we was unique all right.. No end game that JP had,reskins woooot good times.. I remember when Edward called us spoiled brats.. Lol Like we had no rights to have content that JP had..

[EvilMag]

Couldn't agree with you more.. Lol unique.. Yea we was unique all right.. No end game that JP had,reskins woooot good times.. I remember when Edward called us spoiled brats.. Lol Like we had no rights to have content that JP had..

That was the final nail in the coffin for me with SoA. :l

I'll also look forward to the latest UPDATEDs with PSO2 NA.

[~Aya~]

I want to make an account on there and only log in to tell the populated(?) blocks about the new content that the JP version just recieved. Troll mode [ON] OFF.

[Noc Codez]

I want to make an account on there and only log in to tell the populated(?) blocks about the new content that the JP version just recieved. Troll mode [ON] OFF.

LOL You're so mean ^^;

but that forum is dead.. expect a reply in 2-3 business days

[Kierto]

cancelled

[NoiseHERO]

Couldn't agree with you more.. Lol unique.. Yea we was unique all right.. No end game that JP had,reskins woooot good times.. I remember when Edward called us spoiled brats.. Lol Like we had no rights to have content that JP had..

Pretty much when every localized version of an online game says that it means they're not gonna have everything the original version had AND they're going to do some things halfassed. 8D

[Retehi]

I was hoping it'd be released next tuesday, oh well.

[Cagedtaytay]

Me when I saw this thread
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/266/030/492.gif

[UnLucky]

Hell yeah, I'll have an alt on my laptop typing up all my reactions to recent content on "the other server"

Oh man, these new skills on the other server are amazing, too bad we still only have lv30 over here.

Can't wait to unlock the potential on this new 12* weapon I found. Oh right, you guys don't even have either of those at all yet.

Stoked for this week's new boss fight. Reminds me a little of Vardha- oh yeah, you've never fought him before.

Finally, TA/AQ/PW/DD are worth doing thanks to this new change. It'll be a while before you even know what those are.

[Hosaka]

>NA PSO2 news
http://i.imgur.com/fsXXp27.gif

[Gardios]

Quite obvious at this point that it wasn't gonna make it for an early 2013 release.


cancelled
They've already invested too much to just cancel it. If they suddenly figured out that it's unprofitable (which I don't think is the case), they'd still release it and cash in on a few scratchs to reduce the financial losses.

[ReaperTheAbsol]

Thanks for the update, Limni.

[Alisha]

Quite obvious at this point that it wasn't gonna make it for an early 2013 release.


They've already invested too much to just cancel it. If they suddenly figured out that it's unprofitable (which I don't think is the case), they'd still release it and cash in on a few scratchs to reduce the financial losses.

you might wanna read what valve did with the dreamcast version of halflife. they cancelled it then used it as a tax write off.

[yoshiblue]

I agree. They've gotten this far, why quit now? Not the news people wanted but Sega said something, everyone rejoice for potential news for the future!

[Bowzer]

Me when I saw this thread
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/266/030/492.gif

Hahaha I almost pissed my pants when I saw this! xD
But hey finally an update to the NA release status now the threads can stop for a bit.

[Kroe_Waynes]

shocked duh...... for now i think our chance to get that game here in US is over so i helped my two friends register and patch the jap game to play......forget about it guys and enjoy the game anyway even if its finally released in america SoA will do anything so the game wont last long because they are dumbasses.

[Lostbob117]

Oh it matters.. People on psu always looked here for psu JP updates and got very furious on the delayed content on psu. Some even raged on the official forums on sega.
Ofcourse if your just a ghost and never looked at pso-world I would agree with you but most fans know of this site and the rage in content will continue :)

That just tells people how easily ticked they are about things.

[Sayara]

"Originally slated for an early 2013 delay"
In reality though 90% of the people in here proabbly already on them jp servers anyway ;o

[Lostbob117]

"Originally slated for an early 2013 delay"
In reality though 90% of the people in here proabbly already on them jp servers anyway ;o

Yeah however, said earlier in this thread that it should be stickied.

[Bowzer]

shocked duh...... for now i think our chance to get that game here in US is over so i helped my two friends register and patch the jap game to play......forget about it guys and enjoy the game anyway even if its finally released in america SoA will do anything so the game wont last long because they are dumbasses.

The only people that say SoA will run this game into the ground are the people that are mad that their wrong about the release of NA and spent a lot of time on Jp and now regret it.

[HIT0SHI]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd

No details, like at all. I expected an update saying more than "The game has been delayed herr durrrr" ATLEAST give us (again) a somewhat realese date like Summer or the Holidays >_>

[Lostbob117]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd

No details, like at all. I expected an update saying more than "The game has been delayed herr durrrr" ATLEAST give us (again) a somewhat realese date like Summer or the Holidays >_>

Why would they give you a estimated time when it'll come out and have a repeat of what happened these past months?

[HIT0SHI]

Why would they give you a estimated time when it'll come out and have a repeat of what happened these past months?

So SoA is gonna repeat the silent treatment? I mean sure, its SoA but I don't expect them to be oh so quiet about it again.

Call me guillable I guess...

[Laxedrane]

Holy fuck I can stop holding my breath now. WHAT IS THIS OXYGEN! MY LUNGS DON'T KNOW IT.

[~Aya~]

The only people that say SoA will run this game into the ground are the people that are mad that their wrong about the release of NA and spent a lot of time on Jp and now regret it.


Haha! Good one...

[Pyrii]

So the usual SoA sub-par treatment then. I just know when it's going to be released it'll be PSU all over again. Laggy servers, high prices and content that's 1-2 years behind JP.

For me I think I'll stick to JP PSO2, at least that'll still be running long after NA PSO2.

[Arialle]

i can forsee in the coming days or weeks there will be a huge new wave for english players hopping aboard....hopefully not *censored* ppl =3

[Alucadra]

Commence table flipping....now.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

[aarondrom]

SEGAC at it's best

[~Aya~]

(╯°▲°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

[HandOfThornz]

The mind boggles at what is being created for the western servers!
I'm looking forward to whatever the western server has in store, even if its way behind JP servers. As long as the content keeps coming after release.

The west version of PSO2 is probably now at ALPHA test and the last issues are being addressed.
I think we'll start to hear more about the game soon, now someone has spoken out.

SEGA really needs to announce this officially on they're own forums though!

And, for the love of god SEGA, please address the UI volumes on your official PSO2 website! ;)

Also with SEGA confirmed for E3, we now know one of the titles they will be showing off.

[Arrow]

(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻)(╯°Д°）╯...

No moar tables...

[Zyrusticae]

https://58fi4a.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pSLvKYjk2Lpe8O0pGolv9QEDbMxP2b_bJaA-Krebxaj_CG9MUle-9ihuDqP00LoZgWYgVNJdOh84/1364141250579.gif?psid=1
https://58fi4a.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pJcnXM6yEuUFnmNUkcQsaG7uoT9ImwLHIciAwA_390d_ozEd Kc13T5QYs0uyyiFDektg6i0i6p6A/obama58i57.gif?psid=1
https://58fi4a.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pNyZPrz5_1C6QILbqhRscHGrlaZzaAkxNC_dusK58Kje0eq5 xoOpM188C_yWxiWup8pDH3Dpawa4/tumblr_m7vyqv81pv1rtizdwo1_500.gif?psid=1

[Cyron Tanryoku]

┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)

[EvilJohn]

Lol why am i not suprised.

[Gardios]

┬──┬ ︵ \( .o.)\


Lol why am i not suprised.
I don't think anyone is.

[gigawuts]

Yeah, this is pretty par for the course. I would have thought everyone learned that in the past. Sega says some date, we should expect some time after that date. Surely we all remember the various campaigns, events, etc. on whatever versions we all played.

There are reasons so many of us started playing the JP version instead of just waiting. This is one of them.

[Kondibon]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q59/goldenchiklet/Forumite/i-aint-even-mad.jpg

I'm just gonna go on pretending that there never will be an English version so that if there ever is it'll be a pleasant surprise and I don't have to worry about the release date.

[~Aya~]

@Gigawuts
Can I touch your hat?

[GreenArcher]

Maybe this will end all the OMG WHEN PSO2 INGLUSH ?/!!?!1

Probably not but..

[Sierhiet]

Nothing that wasn't already assumed. Not going to bother responding to the fodder, half of which has already been elaborated on. Game will be fine.

[Kion]

I said somewhere before that they'll tell us when they have something interesting to tell. Guess I was right about that.

I'm glad they at least gave us some information.


They're waiting for Kion and AIDA to finish translating the rest of the game.

The game translation shouldn't be holding the game up at all. I assume this is SoJ cock blocking SoA.


Its funny how people seem to forget about the ragefest that happened on July 2011 when Edward said PSU 360 was a "unique version" of PSU. Good times.

Also fuck SoA.

Not sure this is entirely SoA's fault. I would imagine the the server, the code and the tools are handled at SoJ, if SoA isn't saying anything it's likely that they just don't have anything new from SoJ to work with.

Either way this puts me at ease. I didn't want to kill myself translating the entire game if it was just going to come out in a month anyways. Which means I can just keep supporting the game on the Jp side.

[~Aya~]

I'm glad they at least gave us some information.



The game translation shouldn't be holding the game up at all. I assume this is SoJ cock blocking SoA.



Not sure this is entirely SoA's fault. I would imagine the the server, the code and the tools are handled at SoJ, if SoA isn't saying anything it's likely that they just don't have anything new from SoJ to work with.

Either way this puts me at ease. I didn't want to kill myself translating the entire game if it was just going to come out in a month anyways. Which means I can just keep supporting the game on the Jp side.



I love you ; ;.

[Blundy]

i boggles me that they could only they could only say so little, i wonder if this is more a problem japanside like what happened to localized Grand Knight's History....which got cancelled.

[Lumpen Thingy]

oh no more of a reason to stay on the JP server OHHHHHH NOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[ShinMaruku]

I'm glad they at least gave us some information.



The game translation shouldn't be holding the game up at all. I assume this is SoJ cock blocking SoA.



Not sure this is entirely SoA's fault. I would imagine the the server, the code and the tools are handled at SoJ, if SoA isn't saying anything it's likely that they just don't have anything new from SoJ to work with.

Either way this puts me at ease. I didn't want to kill myself translating the entire game if it was just going to come out in a month anyways. Which means I can just keep supporting the game on the Jp side.
Finally somebody brings up SoJ. Too few people here don't seem to get that SoJ has the keys to the kingdom not SoA. Although if Sega was smart they'd get some good consulting to make pso2 a run away hit here with a few tweaks here and there.

[Xaeris]

Personally, I don't believe that it matters who's to blame for the piss poor management of the International servers. The reality is that the International servers have been and likely will be horribly managed, and knowing who the point the finger at for that fact of life doesn't offer us much help aside from knowing whose deaf ears our complaints fall upon.

[ShinMaruku]

You have to reach them in better ways. Sonic Cult got sega stir crazy.

[Lunarix]

Obvious indeed, guess their next announcement will be on the end of 2nd quarter.

[ChronoTrigga]

Is it bad that I want everyone involved with bringing Phantasy Star Online series (every online Phantasy Star, handhelds too), to be fired and made homeless? I mean they've fucked up almost every single stateside release on quite possibly the most entertaining online RPGs ever. Way to fucking go Segac.

[Macman]

SoJ is to blame for content cockblocking.
SoA is to blame for incompetent/nonexistent customer service and technical issues.

Get it right; they're both terrible.

[Lostbob117]

Read this please this might cool everyone down. I took out parts of the chat that was unimportant.

11:33 PM <Morg> well, I guess at least we actually have NEWS now.
11:34 PM <Agrajag> Shouldn't have wanted news so hard.
11:34 PM <Qwerty> it's...about the worst news possible though
11:34 PM <Rappy> Well.. The players did ask for it. They get what they wanted.
11:35 PM <Qwerty> the thing that gets me is
11:35 PM <Rappy> Replace want with what*
11:35 PM <Qwerty> what exactly prompted this news?
11:36 PM <Agrajag> It's also possible they were aiming for a late-March release.
11:36 PM <Qwerty> yeah I guess
11:36 PM <Agrajag> And now that they actually _missed_ the date, it's "postponed".
11:37 PM <Qwerty> that would make the most sense

[Jkid]

We knew this was going to happen. Besides, Sega of America already has real priorities, like other games. Seriously, it's the reason why PSO2 international release is dead last on it's list of priorities.

[ShinMaruku]

SoJ is to blame for content cockblocking.
SoA is to blame for incompetent/nonexistent customer service and technical issues.

Get it right; they're both terrible.

And y'all support them. :E

[DS23]

PSO2 International Servers 'delayed' and by that we mean 'never coming ever'

[Lostbob117]

PSO2 International Servers 'delayed' and by that we mean 'never coming ever'

No, that means postponed as I posted the chat above.

[Jyasupa]

UGHH MEAN DELAY GAIJIN PIG TO GO TO US SERVER

[DS23]

No, that means postponed as I posted the chat above.

That's just what they're saying now, man. First 'delayed', then 'cancelled', lol. Nah they have it all translated (or most of it) at this point so who knows what their hold up is really.

[Kion]

Finally somebody brings up SoJ. Too few people here don't seem to get that SoJ has the keys to the kingdom not SoA. Although if Sega was smart they'd get some good consulting to make pso2 a run away hit here with a few tweaks here and there.

At this point I pretty much want to register Arks-layer as an actual company and then just contact Sega to have us handle the localization and management of the NA release and then just pay Sega royalties for it. What mostly surprises me though, is that it's not the translations as much as Agrajag's patch file that really makes a difference. I mean we can already make files that work with the game client, rather than patching the Japanese files and then applying the English patch on top of it, if you already have a program that does that, then all you'd pretty much have to do is have the client connect to a different patch server depending on what language is selected. I'm sure it's either not that simple, or easier said than done. i'm just continually surprised and baffled that Sega can't do simple shit that the community pretty much does for them. :-?

[ShinMaruku]

You can definitely do that. Sega does look for work from skilled fans.
The main thing is how to sync content.

[Xaeris]

At this point I pretty much want to register Arks-layer as an actual company and then just contact Sega to have us handle the localization and management of the NA release and then just pay Sega royalties for it. What mostly surprises me though, is that it's not the translations as much as Agrajag's patch file that really makes a difference. I mean we can already make files that work with the game client, rather than patching the Japanese files and then applying the English patch on top of it, if you already have a program that does that, then all you'd pretty much have to do is have the client connect to a different patch server depending on what language is selected. I'm sure it's either not that simple, or easier said than done. i'm just continually surprised and baffled that Sega can't do simple shit that the community pretty much does for them. :-?

At this point, I imagine it's financial reasons holding them back as opposed to just not having the resources to translate. Either way, it's times like these I really want to take the time to thank the members of the community that go the extra mile to make the game more playable for the English speaking audience. So thanks, Kion. I'd thank Aga too, if he posted here. (I'm starting to get worried about cirnopedia though.)

[Zyrusticae]

(I'm starting to get worried about cirnopedia though.)
You shouldn't be. He's said he's been working hard on revamping the site. It's looking pretty good so far.

This game, man. Crazy-passionate fan base.

[Gardios]

Again, I doubt the problem is the translation itself--it (+ editing etc.) should be long done and not hinder the release.

Besides, stuff like that is easy for the community because we're not operating on corporate level. Worst case, SoA is not allowed to do anything at all with the code without permission of SoJ (which delays stuff immensely).

[Kion]

I don't think it's resources as much as time. Probably Sega made the game with the intention of releasing it in NA, but is probably bogged down by the shear amount of maintenance it takes to keep the game running. They need to reply to player forms, ban people, do something about RMT's. I get the sense that it was the JP development teams job to get the game ready for the international release but have their hands full with the Japanese release and just haven't gotten a chance to do that yet. Also they probably didn't realize that the Japanese version would do so well, so rather than spend the resources on putting out a new game, and paying all of the resources to keep it up to date, it might be a better move for them to keep focusing on the domestic market and keep getting money from that.

The lack of updates from SoA probably indicates that they haven't gotten their hands on the game at all and are in the dark as much as we are about how the game is actually developing. Normally you'd think they'd at least have a phone number to call to check in, but I don't think that's how the company works. When I went to SoJ in person, I didn't get a chance to talk to anyone, but there were no labels on the doors or walls, and everything needed a key card to get into. So it's likely that they have the company locked down so tight that not even different departments can exchange information meaning that SoA might have the same amount of difficulty getting in touch with them as we do.

The thing that I'd like to do is take Sega out of the equation for the international release. I'm really not sure what the problem is with how they run their company, but I'm pretty sure it can be agreed upon that there's definitely a problem. rather than having Sega do everything internally, it might really be ideal to turn over the rights to the international version to a different company like Nexon or something, give them the tools to run the game and then just have Sega collect royalties on how much they earn. That way Sega doesn't have to deal with any of the economic overhead or risk that comes with implementing the game in a different territory.

What mostly pisses me off is that Sega (and really tons of other Japanese companies) don't know their customer base and don't know how to market internationally. So while they may have a good product with a lot of potential, they squander it with a poor release and poor service and then say, "hey look we tried but it's just not worth it". The anime industry did this with jmanga.com. Jmanga.com is an official anime site where you can buy anime illegitimately online, the only reason I bring this up is because I've never heard of this until today when I saw the press release because they were shutting down because a lack of interest/profit. I went to the site and it sucks balls. And this is something that I think is the main problem with Sega and other Japanese developers that they have a good product, don't know how to market it and end up just sitting on it.

[Meta77]

prepare yourselfs. E3 pso2 for everyone else. fall 2013 :D haha

[Infiniteque]

Well, I just want to point out...

That reading Kion and AIDA's posts here have given me more hope for PSO2 than reading the news article itself. Thank you both.

Aside from that, this solidifies my decision about which PSO2 I will "take seriously." Time to get cozy on the JP version, because I'll be here for a long, long time.

[Miyavi-sensei]

*sigh* Why can't america get simultaneous releases with japan, why is there always this favoritism? What possible reason could JP have for releasing there games exclusively for themselves first? American games always release by them in the same release window as us.

[jooozek]

if i were soa i'd delay this turd too

[Agitated_AT]

I expect the game to fail here anyway. without any good marketing this game is gonna have a hard time attracting shallow people

[HeartBreak301]

Not surprised in the least. They were probably expecting this to be delayed or did it on purpose and just threw this out as a "Hey we didn't forget about you people we don't care about!" response to get people to shut up. Honestly at this point they'd be better off just converting the Japanese servers to global servers so they don't waste their time on a US/EU release that will inevitably flop due to zero advertisement.

[Sp-24]

*sigh* Why can't america get simultaneous releases with japan, why is there always this favoritism? What possible reason could JP have for releasing there games exclusively for themselves first? American games always release by them in the same release window as us.
PSO2 will not be as much of a hit around the world as it is in Japan. It's not about favoritism, it's simple business:

1. It's cheaper to release and sustain an online service in one country. Sega loves moneys.
2. Phantasy Star is a (somewhat) known franchise in Japan, and Sega is relevant there. It's a safe bet.
3. There's hundreds of MMOs in the world, but much fewer in Japan. Even if PSO2 isn't the worst, there's still an issue of competition existing. And have fun explaining scheduled monthly screwups to much more pampered western players.
4. PSO2 specifically targets japanese audience with, well, everything. Say what you want, the wapanese presence worldwide is not strong at all, and many people will find PSO2 visually unappealing. Oh, and Anita would have a field day with some of the outfits they've released recently and not so recently if this game was popular.
5. White devir.

[May0]

Having come this far and with no mention of anything during pax I decided to unlike their facebook page. I encourage everyone here to do the same if you're feeling indifferent towards PSO2's NA release. It will be nice when it is released but the lack of nearly any publicity prior to that point will have many asking "what is PSO2?"

I am kinda curious if the bad blood Sega has with Gearbox may have something to do with the delay but, I'd put my money more on their incompetence regarding their communication between SA and SJP. While the actions of Gearbox are reprehensible there's no logical conclusion to not want to make a profit off the american/European market from Sega's perspective. I doubt they're so high on their horse to turn down a large customer base. With that reasoning in mind their incompetence getting the game localized is the only explanation.

[Maronji]

I am kinda curious if the bad blood Sega has with Gearbox may have something to do with the delay

I'm sorry, but did I miss something? Ever since I discovered the unholy place which is Tumblr, I haven't been keeping up with my gaming news as well as I used to (and that's considering that I don't even check Tumblr that often anymore lol).

[Kion]

That's something that I find odd, is how to react. Does it make more sense to try and raise awareness and contact them in hopes that something may actually happen? Or be quiet and just play the Japanese servers? Or does playing on the Japanese servers just give them business that they shouldn't be getting?

From this news I really get the sense that SoA is really just as much in the dark as we are about this. If they knew why it was delayed they would have likely at least offered a reason for it, so anything beyond that it really seems like trying to contact the JP development team, or more specifically Sakai seems like the only way we'll get any direct information. I swear this is like freaking pandora's box. I'm probably not going to like what I hear, but the curiosity is killing me.

[Perle]

I'm sorry, but did I miss something? Ever since I discovered the unholy place which is Tumblr, I haven't been keeping up with my gaming news as well as I used to (and that's considering that I don't even check Tumblr that often anymore lol).

The general consensus surrounding Aliens: Colonial Marines -

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=515450

[Meta77]

Me when I saw this thread
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/266/030/492.gif
Best image sum up ever.

[gigawuts]

The problem could be more than just simple localization. People here are not going to play a game where they spend all their money to watch their guns go +9 to +1 in one straight line. They will laugh, sign off, post a meme on the forums, and go back to playing whatever they were playing before this. Fuck, that is exactly where all of my other POBT friends went. Literally. Grind first rare, "Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not playing this," never signed in again. I don't blame them. I keep them posted on the occasional update and we laugh about it.

That's where I hope the problem with the western launch lies - negotiating this shit with SoJ, who now has a taste of the big money and probably isn't backing down on making changes. They're ignoring the entire point of F2P - charge everyone a small fee instead of everyone a big fee; everyone will pay the small fee but not everyone will pay the big fee and the larger number of payers will add up to more money. Grind protects, affix boosters, etc. still count as fees.

Fix the horrible grinding system so that hilarious 9->1 bullshit, or anything remotely like it, never ever ever happens, fix affixing so you can't fail all 3 slots when expanding 2->3, etc. so there's some reliability and you'll have a goddamn juggernaut. It's been a long time since there was a great MMOJRPG in the west and whether or not they'll admit to it, a lot of people would have fun with it. Nostalgia alone will summon players to give this a shot. Those people did NOT play PSO1 because it offered this kind of "hey! you're broke and your weapons are worse! how DARE you try to improve your gear?!" horrible design. Players here in the west know money grabbing when they see it just by nature of having played so many goddamn games. Many will have one bad experience, remember the last game they played like this that they're still angry about, and just boot up a game that doesn't punish them for trying until the next major content update when all they'll get is 11 new randomly arranged rooms, a new background, and a new boss (maybe two).

[pso2love]

As much as I would like to take this article as official... I can't.

1. SEGA would have at least named their spokesperson. This raises a red flag.

2. "SEGA can officially confirm" Yeah, of course they can, but will they? SEGA hasn't posted on their official site or blog with this message anywhere.

[Perle]

As much as I would like to take this article as official... I can't.

1. SEGA would have at least named their spokesperson. This raises a red flag.

2. "SEGA can officially confirm" Yeah, of course they can, but will they? SEGA hasn't posted on their official site or blog with this message anywhere.

Polygon are a pretty safe bet. They have no reason to make this shit up.

PSO2 Delayed - is hardly headline grabbing at this point. :-P

[pso2love]

....Then... why can't SEGA make it official? Why not give out the name of the spokesperson? I could easily say I interviewed such SEGA spokesperson and type in "SEGA can officially confirm" in a blog post somewhere. That quote ought to give it away... They can, but will they?

No official source, didn't happen.

[Meji]

While the things Giga are saying is true, I don't really want to wrap up PSO2 as a game solely circulating around grinding your equipment. The ability to grind is optional, and if you manage to pull off a +10 grinding on your weapons/units, of course you're rewarded with excellent gear better than the others.
Just like in other games, you don't have to spend money unless you want stronger equipment. This part is vital for SEGA to earn money. And if you don't want to spend real money on it, then spend more time in the game and earn the things yourself.

And I'm not lying when I say I really love the grinding challenge as a whole.
Yeah, some parts might be a tad too hard, but SEGA is listening to the community and putting Doodoo on a leach and adding in a lot of modifications to what the system used to look like. They are listening to the community after all, unlike a lot of other games I know of.

Take S4 Leage for example. When the game was in its Alpha/Beta days, the weapons you were given were permanent, but you had to repair them after some time which costed in-game money (which you earned by playing matches). If you didn't play the game skillfully enough, you'd end up with the "unbreakable" starter equipment, until you've earned another handful of cash to repair your items.
People didn't like this and complained, but nothing changed, and in the end it just encouraged them to play the game more skillfully so they could gather enough points from each battle (this system was later changed into "pay in-game money to use this item for X-minutes instead).
Even so, people still played the game and enjoyed it for what it was. If the extreme grinding system is "a reason" for people to jump off PSO2, then they're clearly not enjoying the game at all.

[Sierhiet]

....Then... why can't SEGA make it official? Why not give out the name of the spokesperson? I could easily say I interviewed such SEGA spokesperson and type in "SEGA can officially confirm" in a blog post somewhere. That quote ought to give it away... They can, but will they?

No official source, didn't happen.

It's legitimate. An outlet like Polygon wouldn't release a tidbit like this without verification. They always keep the spokesperson's name confidential, unless they're some high profile figure, capable of garnering a certain level of attention. Lets say, like a Cliff Blezinski.


If the extreme grinding system is "a reason" for people to jump off PSO2, then they're clearly not enjoying the game at all.

I agree.

[pso2love]

It's legitimate. An outlet like Polygon wouldn't release a tidbit like this without verification. They always keep the spokesperson's name confidential, unless they're some high profile figure, capable of garnering a certain level of attention. Lets say, like a Cliff Blezinski.

You say that, but there is still NO OFFICIAL SOURCE!

Let's see if Edward@SEGA will clarify.

[Poubelle]

Why would Polygon lie? If they wanted to make up a news story, I'm sure they could do better than 'PSO2 has been delayed'.

and honestly, did we even need confirmation from a SEGA rep that the game is delayed?

It was planned for release in Q1 2013, and Q1 is over.

[gigawuts]

While the things Giga are saying is true, I don't really want to wrap up PSO2 as a game solely circulating around grinding your equipment. The ability to grind is optional, and if you manage to pull off a +10 grinding on your weapons/units, of course you're rewarded with excellent gear better than the others.
Just like in other games, you don't have to spend money unless you want stronger equipment. This part is vital for SEGA to earn money. And if you don't want to spend real money on it, then spend more time in the game and earn the things yourself.

And I'm not lying when I say I really love the grinding challenge as a whole.
Yeah, some parts might be a tad too hard, but SEGA is listening to the community and putting Doodoo on a leach and adding in a lot of modifications to what the system used to look like. They are listening to the community after all, unlike a lot of other games I know of.

Take S4 Leage for example. When the game was in its Alpha/Beta days, the weapons you were given were permanent, but you had to repair them after some time which costed in-game money (which you earned by playing matches). If you didn't play the game skillfully enough, you'd end up with the "unbreakable" starter equipment, until you've earned another handful of cash to repair your items.
People didn't like this and complained, but nothing changed, and in the end it just encouraged them to play the game more skillfully so they could gather enough points from each battle (this system was later changed into "pay in-game money to use this item for X-minutes instead).
Even so, people still played the game and enjoyed it for what it was. If the extreme grinding system is "a reason" for people to jump off PSO2, then they're clearly not enjoying the game at all.

This really does not compare, at all. Was the repairing RNG-based? Would you LOSE time 70% of the time you attempted to fix an item at 90%?

There is zero challenge in dice rolls. You are saying you like gambling. There are places where not only do they offer better gambling, but they offer free liquor to get you to keep gambling too. You should look into that.

edit: Also, the "you don't HAVE to grind!!!1" stance is tired and has been repeatedly shot down. Grinding and weapon improvement is exactly as "voluntary" as leveling up, it's just one punishes you for trying and the other does not. Most of the stat gains at later levels have been shifted into weapons. You gain more stats in the 1-25 range than you do in the 26-55 range, and no that doesn't even include subclassing. The game is specifically designed such that improving weapons is mandatory to continue improving at a relatively consistent rate.

[Z-0]

how exactly is pso not about grinding your equipment

you play to get levels, find better rares to grind them up to be better than your last.

it's total bullshit if my 10* rare can't outperform my 9* simply because the game is unable to grind it up because of the RNG system. I've put all those hours into finding the goddamn thing, and yet it's worse than what I already had? lol...

I enjoy the game as it is, but it's a pretty massive flaw and really turns people away knowing that their work in the game is not outputting anything unless they're lucky after they've already struck gold (whatever the new rare is), and that's the problem.

[pso2love]

Why would Polygon lie? If they wanted to make up a news story, I'm sure they could do better than 'PSO2 has been delayed'.

and honestly, did we even need confirmation from a SEGA rep that the game is delayed?

It was planned for release in Q1 2013, and Q1 is over.

Just saying the obvious myself... that there is no official source.
I just sent a message to Edward. Yes, I would like confirmation from a SEGA rep.
If the info is official, then they would have no problem confirming it.

If I'm SEGA, and some third party said that I said something, and its not true, I would be pissed.

[Poubelle]

how exactly is pso not about grinding your equipment

you play to get levels, find better rares to grind them up to be better than your last.

it's total bullshit if my 10* rare can't outperform my 9* simply because the game is unable to grind it up because of the RNG system. I've put all those hours into finding the goddamn thing, and yet it's worse than what I already had? lol...

I enjoy the game as it is, but it's a pretty massive flaw and really turns people away knowing that their work in the game is not outputting anything unless they're lucky after they've already struck gold (whatever the new rare is), and that's the problem.

I agree.

Off the topic of your argument, but the thing with 10* rare drops being worse than what you had is also because 10* drops aren't good enough.

I mean really, you would think that something with such an abysmal droprate would have good stats, yet most are only marginally better. You're pretty much hunting entirely for the cosmetic aspect of the rares.

[Meji]

This really does not compare, at all.I wasn't really comparing the difference in between the random grinding and fail-safe repairing in the previous post. I was stating that even though some games have a horrid systems for boosting your equipment it is still optional, among with if that system is the only reason you're hating on the game then you're clearly not enjoying the game as a whole.

[UnLucky]

If the extreme grinding system is "a reason" for people to jump off PSO2, then they're clearly not enjoying the game at all.
I sat here for a while thinking of a retort, but I realized you're absolutely right. Grinding weapons is 90% of the game. If you don't like spending all your time and money making negative progress, you won't like PSO2.

[reptile7383]

I sat here for a while thinking of a retort, but I realized you're absolutely right. Grinding weapons is 90% of the game. If you don't like spending all your time and money making negative progress, you won't like PSO2.

Only during the end game. I believe people could put in a large amount of time before reaching a point where they aren't making any progress.

[gigawuts]

how exactly is pso not about grinding your equipment

you play to get levels, find better rares to grind them up to be better than your last.

it's total bullshit if my 10* rare can't outperform my 9* simply because the game is unable to grind it up because of the RNG system. I've put all those hours into finding the goddamn thing, and yet it's worse than what I already had? lol...

I enjoy the game as it is, but it's a pretty massive flaw and really turns people away knowing that their work in the game is not outputting anything unless they're lucky after they've already struck gold (whatever the new rare is), and that's the problem.

Yup. No other game that I've ever played has made me feel bad about finding an item. I was one of the first, oh, let's say 200 people to find a steam knuckle. My immediate reaction: Oh boy! My second reaction: Oh no, I have to +10 a 10* for this to outclass what I already have.

That is awful design. I've spent 7 0 loss protectors at +9 and even a 20% grind booster, the fucking thing is still +9. Based on a 30% base chance for 9-10 grinding on 10*'s, that's less than a 6% chance of all having failed, and yet it has. Every next chance will continue to be 30%. That is horrible design, and I actually paid someone meseta for them to pay sega real money, meaning I directly supported it.

That is what will not fly in the west. Players in japan may not be as familiar with it, but over here tons of people have been burned by this shit enough to not want to support it, ever. I eagerly await the blogs reviewing a game that is, when you boil it down, a bunch of random levels based around a roulette wheel.


I wasn't really comparing the difference in between the random grinding and fail-safe repairing in the previous post. I was stating that even though some games have a horrid systems for boosting your equipment it is still optional, among with if that system is the only reason you're hating on the game then you're clearly not enjoying the game as a whole.

Not really. Gear is the point of PSO. It was the point of the first, it's the point of this one. They full well know it. Why do you think it's set up this way? The point is dressup and grinding, and both have RNG-based design to give you the smallest possible chance of success at getting what you want unless you have a my shop.

You're basically saying "finding pokemon is optional in pokemon games!"

[Z-0]

Problem is once you've reached that point, which doesn't actually take very long. It's longer than before, since the EXP requirements jump a lot from 40, but once you're like... 45, 50 or something, you've done almost everything the game has to offer, except play another class to do it all over again.

[Sp-24]

S4 League is a horrible example. In fact, if anything, it's the lesson for Sega why PSO2 will fail if it gets released outside of Japan.

S4 League IS PSO2. Fun gameplay, idiotic visuals, bad music, tons and tons of grinding. However, S4 League has PvP to keep it alive, while the best that PSO2 has to offer is fighting the exact same AI enemies and dressing up your loli character. Also, S4 League has tiny updates once in a blue moon, while PSO2 is only kept afloat because of such updates coming out pretty much every other week.

You know, there is a reason why S4 was sold to one of those companies that's like Aeria. Setting up servers from scratch specifically to keep it afloat would have been a financial disaster.

[Coatl]

i'm just continually surprised and baffled that Sega can't do simple shit that the community pretty much does for them. :-?

Remember the dark ages of sonic the hedgehog games? Remember all the sonic mods that sprung up within that time? Yeah. :wacko:

[UnLucky]

Once you get to lv40ish, your biggest gains by far are going to be from gear, and it's also about that time where the only reasonable equipment to grind/affix (4-6*) become clearly outclassed.

You get most of your staple skills by lv30, getting to lv20 is near instant, and raising your other classes to lv30 is faster and easier than the first time you did it.

No reviewer is ever going to get that far, and up to that point you don't have to give two shits about your gear other than "do I have the weapon type I want?" That's where the nightmare begins, and where progression is locked behind back-to-back dice rolls stacked on more dice rolls. And if you pay real money (and win a dice roll to get the cash item you want), you can paint over the snake eyes to make it add up to 3 instead.

[Meji]

You're basically saying "finding pokemon is optional in pokemon games!"Well, yeah, you can still enjoy the game without finding/catching 'em all.

[Coatl]

Well, yeah, you can still enjoy the game without finding/catching 'em all.

But some people want to catch all the pokemans. At least pokemon lets you with enough time and effort put into the game. But you're right, it's still enjoyable when you can't. It's just not enjoyable when you want to but can't.

[gigawuts]

Well, yeah, you can still enjoy the game without finding/catching 'em all.

Nope. You're saying to not catch any but the ones in the first town.

Don't catch any and only level the first area. That's, what, one starter, butterfree, ratata, and weedle?

That's a rough analogy to what you're saying about PSO2. Let's keep going with this, using the red/blue/green/yellow generation.

Now take that, and imagine that finding pokemon was even worse with the RNG - we're talking hundreds of hours to maybe find a dratini - the 91-151 range were account bound on capture, 41-90 range were bind on putting into battle, and learning moves was chance-based (if your pokemon even had enough attack slots, which failure would reduce, but you could of course increase with a chance to lose all attack slots!). Now imagine every pokemon you capture is worse than your starter (obviously, this is the point of a game with a leveling system), but now imagine even ATTEMPTING to level up your newly caught pokemon might actually remove levels. Now take that and make the starters and all non-binding pokemon are the worst pokemon in the game, performing worse in literally every single way to literally everything in the 41-151 range.

But don't worry. Catching new pokemon is optional.

[Sp-24]

Also, while we're comparing PSO2 to similar games that were released outside of one asian country, let's look at another instanced action/RPG with horrible grinding: Dynasty Warriors Online. It's pretty much exactly like PSO2, down to western release being constantly delayed, lagging a year behind Japan upon the release and missing half of the features. After a year under Aeria's care, its forum is filled only with people who, quite literally, don't know better and those who are too addicted to quit.

Oh, and what do you know: upgrading there is completely optional. Just don't complain when you get flamed and dumped during weekly events if your weapon isn't 4/2/4/2/2 and element 2, whatever it means.

[Macman]

I don't think it's resources as much as time. Probably Sega made the game with the intention of releasing it in NA, but is probably bogged down by the shear amount of maintenance it takes to keep the game running. They need to reply to player forms, ban people, do something about RMT's.
Ha ha ha ha... moderation on a western PS title. Good one.

[UnLucky]

Nope. You're saying to not catch any but the ones in the first town.

Don't catch any and only level the first area. That's, what, one starter, butterfree, ratata, and weedle?

That's a rough analogy to what you're saying about PSO2. Let's keep going with this, using the red/blue/green/yellow generation.

Now take that, and imagine that finding pokemon was even worse with the RNG - we're talking hundreds of hours to maybe find a dratini - the 91-151 range were account bound on capture, 41-90 range were bind on putting into battle, and learning moves was chance-based (if your pokemon even had enough attack slots, which failure would reduce, but you could of course increase with a chance to lose all attack slots!). Now imagine every pokemon you capture is worse than your starter (obviously, this is the point of a game with a leveling system), but now imagine even ATTEMPTING to level up your newly caught pokemon might actually remove levels. Now take that and make the starters and all non-binding pokemon are the worst pokemon in the game, performing worse in literally every single way to literally everything in the 41-151 range.

But don't worry. Catching new pokemon is optional.
Evolving your Pokemon requires an evolution stone every time you try, the Pokemon must be lv100 before they can evolve one stage, and drop back down to lv1 afterwards. The new evolution isn't even that much better most of the time.

[Macman]

I am so very, very, confused. How did we get from Point A to Point B?Typical RNG tears derail.

[Sp-24]

People are theorising on why did PSO2 get delayed. So far, the most popular theories are that the RNG is too horrible and there's no content otherwise, and that PSO2 is completely perfect and should be released immediately.

[gigawuts]

Typical RNG tears that are related to the topic.

Fixed.

[SilverFoxR]

So, how many people, upon seeing this announcement, said to themselves:
"NO F***ING S***!"

I mean, it's nice that they've finally announced this, but the fact that it should have already been announced or even out by now... and seeing as how people on the official website have been asking about this subject almost daily, you'd think they would have made a statement, like, a month ago.

*sigh* well, glad to know they're still working on it.

[Xaeris]

If you guys really want to use the pokemon analogy, you should know about IVs. If you're not familiar with the system already, it'd take me some time to explain, so I'll just simplify; as it's worked in every game since...Gen 2, I think, you'd have to catch dozens of copies of a pokemon you want to add to your team and hope one of them was rolled with a good set of what are essentially invisible stats before proceeding to level it up and then deal with the EVs. Or you could do it with eggs. Like I said, details. But basically, this can be very time consuming and RNG based if you're min-maxing it. Of course, this is only required for competitive battling. Anything else, you could just catch whatever you thought looked pretty and do fine. Not unlike here.

Now, that's not a defense of of the weapon enhancement system in this game. It's trash. I'm just saying, I can understand why it doesn't bother some people. They should still recognize its flaws, but I can understand how it doesn't impact their enjoyment of the game.

[gigawuts]

If you guys really want to use the pokemon analogy, you should know about IVs. If you're not familiar with the system already, it'd take me some time to explain, so I'll just simplify; as it's worked in every game since...Gen 2, I think, you'd have to catch dozens of copies of a pokemon you want to add to your team and hope one of them was rolled with a good set of what are essentially invisible stats before proceeding to level it up and then deal with the EVs. Basically, this can be very time consuming and RNG based if you're min-maxing it. Of course, this is only required for competitive battling. Anything else, you could just catch whatever you thought looked pretty and do fine. Not unlike here.

Now, that's not a defense of of the weapon enhancement system in this game. It's trash. I'm just saying, I can understand why it doesn't bother some people. They should still recognize its flaws, but I can understand how it doesn't impact their enjoyment of the game.

Ah, right, these compare better to affixes than attacks. I guess attacks would be closer to PA's, thinking on it. Really, this is the point where the analogy really stretches thin because they're different games. I only brought it up because saying "grinding is optional" is literally the daftest thing I've read regarding PSO2.

Then again, affixes add comparably a lot more for their effort than IV's and EV's, don't they? There's nothing really like breeding to go on here...well, I guess it compares to farming a specific 10* multiple times to +50 its element. I didn't get mega hardcore into all that stuff, I never gave a damn about competitive battling.

Uuuh...this is hardly relevant by now, but I guess affixes are like IV's and farming dupes is EV's? Blech.

[D-Inferno]

IVs in Pokemon have been around since Gen 1 (Gen 1 and 2 even share the same IV/EV system for compatibility). However, RNG abuse allows you to get pretty much any IV combo you want while still being legit.

I don't know what is holding up PSO2's release, but I bet it's something related to how they want to localize it (how much content of the game they want present during release). PSO2 was pretty bare bones for much of last year, so the 2013 release date wasn't exactly as stupid as it sounded.

As unlikely as this sounds, I wonder if they are trying to link the game with Steam for the English release? Not only would it give the game a lot more attention, but it could probably work out somewhat with the Vita version too since you can use your PSN account on Steam.

[Lostbob117]

Ah, right, these compare better to affixes than attacks. I guess attacks would be closer to PA's, thinking on it. Really, this is the point where the analogy really stretches thin because they're different games. I only brought it up because saying "grinding is optional" is literally the daftest thing I've read regarding PSO2.

Then again, affixes add comparably a lot more for their effort than IV's and EV's, don't they? There's nothing really like breeding to go on here...well, I guess it compares to farming a specific 10* multiple times to +50 its element. I didn't get mega hardcore into all that stuff, I never gave a damn about competitive battling.

Uuuh...this is hardly relevant by now, but I guess affixes are like IV's and farming dupes is EV's? Blech.

Grinding is optional because you're not forced to do it. Is that so hard to understand?

[gigawuts]

Grinding is optional because you're not forced to do it. Is that so hard to understand?

And you're not forced to catch any different pokemon either. But, you know, it's why most people actually play the game, so stop saying such a dumb thing please.

Bahaha nevermind, can't say that to lostbob and keep a straight face.

[Lostbob117]

And you're not forced to catch any different pokemon either. But, you know, it's why most people actually play the game, so stop saying such a dumb thing please.

Bahaha nevermind, can't say that to lostbob and keep a straight face.

Some people play pokemon for just the story. Catching pokemon is like Finding a rare weapon not grinding. Grinding is just to increase the numbers on your screen it doesn't change how you play the game. So the ones who don't want to grind doesn't care for the big numbers, they really just want to play a fun game.

[gigawuts]

Some people play pokemon for just the story. Catching pokemon is like Finding a rare weapon not grinding. Grinding is just to increase the numbers on your screen it doesn't change how you play the game. So the ones who don't want to grind doesn't care for the big numbers, they really just want to play a fun game.

You're making meaningless and unhelpful statements again. Yes, of course some people play a game for its story and then quit. And some people don't. Are you saying a bad system isn't bad since it doesn't bother a small portion of the long term playerbase? It can be terrible to players who use it, so long as ones who don't aren't bothered. Okay.

Grinding is not to increase numbers on your screen. It isn't about epeen for most people. It's about speed and convenience. With better gear you can kill many enemies before they become a threat, do runs faster, and be more efficient.

What you said has minimal relation to what I'm talking about. But then, I'm talking to someone who constantly deletes their character and then whines they're not in very hard, so what should I really be expecting here.

[Lostbob117]

You're making meaningless and unhelpful statements again. Yes, of course some people play a game for its story and then quit. And some people don't. Are you saying a bad system isn't bad since it doesn't bother a small portion of the long term playerbase? It can be terrible to players who use it, so long as ones who don't aren't bothered. Okay.

Grinding is not to increase numbers on your screen. It isn't about epeen for most people. It's about speed and convenience. With better gear you can kill many enemies before they become a threat, do runs faster, and be more efficient.

What you said has minimal relation to what I'm talking about. But then, I'm talking to someone who constantly deletes their character and then whines they're not in very hard, so what should I really be expecting here.

With better gear you can kill many enemies before they become a thread, does quest faster, and be more efficient - Because you're hitting bigger numbers on your screen.
Also saying "I miss being able to do Very hard" isn't whining one bit.

[UnLucky]

Filling up your party with something other than rats and birds is totally optional

gl with the Elite Four though, or any Gym really.

[Z-0]

don't you dare diss rattata and pidgey

[Gardios]

I assure you, Elite Four are no problem since my Rattata is in the top percentage of Rattata.

[Zipzo]

Gigawuts you're wrong on this. Something not being requisite to complete is the definition of the word optional, and you do not have to grind to complete anything in this game. Sure, it could make things easier in the long run, shortening your missions by a decent amount of minutes over time...but it is optional. Your pokemon comparison is stupid because you don't HAVE to catch different Pokemon to even beat that game, nor is it an activity that everyone even cares about who plays Pokemon. You can steamroll every single Pokemon game by power leveling your starter Poke through the entire game (including the entire elite four if you stock on items going in to it). Every single version. Know how I know that? That's what I do. That makes catching other Pokemon *optional* EXCEPT for the purpose of HM slaves which is a negligible mention. Your argument is pretty weak all around.

[gigawuts]

With better gear you can kill many enemies before they become a thread, does quest faster, and be more efficient - Because you're hitting bigger numbers on your screen.
Also saying "I miss being able to do Very hard" isn't whining one bit.

It's more whining than doing runs in half the time of an inept kid who has trouble grasping fundamental concepts is about big numbers on a screen.

You don't actually know much of anything about endgame content and attempting to pigeonhole the endgame mechanics you don't have much if any experience with will get you nowhere.

But keep on saying that sega should be trying to appeal to people who will play their game for its hysterically trashy story and then quit without spending a single dime. That'll really net them top dollar. They should not in any way shape or form appeal to players who stay long term, nor get them to enjoy the game more.


Gigawuts you're wrong on this. Something not being requisite to complete is the definition of the word optional, and you do not have to grind to complete anything in this game. Sure, it could make things easier in the long run, shortening your missions by a decent amount of minutes over time...but it is optional. Your pokemon comparison is stupid because you don't HAVE to catch different Pokemon to even beat that game, nor is it an activity that everyone even cares about who plays Pokemon. You can steamroll every single Pokemon game by power leveling your starter Poke through the entire game (including the entire elite four if you stock on items going in to it). Every single version. Know how I know that? That's what I do. That makes catching other Pokemon *optional* EXCEPT for the purpose of HM slaves which is a negligible mention. Your argument is pretty weak all around.

But that's exactly why the comparison is perfect. It's exactly as optional - some people don't care, but for other people items are literally the reason they play the game.

You don't have to play games at all. You don't have to have a computer. You don't have to breathe. There are no laws of nature saying you must be alive. If you want to try to split hairs then go all the way. It's exactly as absurd. If you play the game for loot, loot mechanics are the entire point.

[Gardios]

...honestly why do people still cling to the Pokémon analogy.

Point is, grinding as it is right now is stupid. It being optional doesn't matter because it doesn't make it any less stupid.

[UnLucky]

Imagine if everything better than the basic Pokeball cost real money to buy, wasn't much better than the regular kind, and your chance to catch new Pokemon didn't rise with status effects or lowered health.

"But catching Pokemon is entirely optional, if you don't like it, you don't have to do it"

"I'm perfectly fine using only the same thing I started with. And so should you."

[Lostbob117]

It's more whining than doing runs in half the time of an inept kid who has trouble grasping fundamental concepts is about big numbers on a screen.

You don't actually know much of anything about endgame content and attempting to pigeonhole the endgame mechanics you don't have much if any experience with will get you nowhere.

But keep on saying that sega should be trying to appeal to people who will play their game for its hysterically trashy story and then quit without spending a single dime. That'll really net them top dollar. They should not in any way shape or form appeal to players who stay long term, nor get them to enjoy the game more.

EndGame: people run AQ's and TA's which you literally don't need top-notch gear for(High up gear for TA's) while they wait for new content, or they hunt for a weapon they really like (that one pokemon) or they even do both things. Once new stuff comes out you go and get all the new stuff and then repeat with new things. Or they sit in lobby speaking to people (Which is so annoying reasons why I avoid block20).

Now as I said it's optional because you aren't forced to do it. To be honest you took what I said and went to a different point. Higher numbers means easier the game gets for killing things.

Also how am I whining when I never speak in the game pretty much? I do plenty of quests per day.

[EvilMag]

Thats what I did back when I first played Pokemon. Only trained my starter so my hall of fame was something like Lv70 Charizard, one of the legendary birds, a Pidgey, Ratatta, Geodude, and a Poliwag. All below lv20.

[UnLucky]

That's kind of where the analogy falls flat, because it's actually faster and easier to raise just one Pokemon up instead of splitting your EXP.

[Coatl]

Well, if we aren't playing the game for drops..what are we playing it for then?

[EvilMag]

Well, if we aren't playing the game for drops..what are we playing it for then?

Space dress up simulator?

[Zipzo]

Well, if we aren't playing the game for drops..what are we playing it for then?
Virtual Waifu.

[UnLucky]

To grind to cap and quit because you beat the game.

[gigawuts]

That's kind of where the analogy falls flat, because it's actually faster and easier to raise just one Pokemon up instead of splitting your EXP.

Ha ha, yeah. Which is why I expanded on it by saying starters had to be inferior in every single way.

But, as demonstrated by Aida, people either can't read or deliberately act as if they don't.

Now, surely, nobody here would be so disingenuous as to simply ignore something so that they can try to argue with someone. Why, nobody would ever do that.

[yoshiblue]

Ultima Weapon Grinder: Omega Dudu Edition.

Critical Mode: Weapons can break at lv1, 25% success rates, 7x the stat increase for every success.

[Sierhiet]

I don't disagree that the system could use some tweaking, but lets not forget the appeal of said loot decreases as you make it significantly easier to acquire. People like items, but other people like the novelty of said items. With an overly gracious system, the novelty is gone and so is the thrill of the hunt, or gamble. And the players that come with it.

[Z-0]

Do people actually play this game and never grind their stuff? I can't even imagine doing that because that feels like it defeats the purpose of the game:

To hunt for better gear and upgrade it to make it better.

[Lostbob117]

Do people actually play this game and never grind their stuff? I can't even imagine doing that because that feels like it defeats the purpose of the game:

To hunt for better gear and upgrade it to make it better.

I never grind, I have the weapons I want too and like 500grinders and I still haven't start to grind them and I will never grind them.

[Zipzo]

It's more whining than doing runs in half the time of an inept kid who has trouble grasping fundamental concepts is about big numbers on a screen.

You don't actually know much of anything about endgame content and attempting to pigeonhole the endgame mechanics you don't have much if any experience with will get you nowhere.

But keep on saying that sega should be trying to appeal to people who will play their game for its hysterically trashy story and then quit without spending a single dime. That'll really net them top dollar. They should not in any way shape or form appeal to players who stay long term, nor get them to enjoy the game more.



But that's exactly why the comparison is perfect. It's exactly as optional - some people don't care, but for other people items are literally the reason they play the game.

You don't have to play games at all. You don't have to have a computer. You don't have to breathe. There are no laws of nature saying you must be alive. If you want to try to split hairs then go all the way. It's exactly as absurd. If you play the game for loot, loot mechanics are the entire point.

...but you're the one splitting hairs.

You need air to breath to do anything. We aren't discussing the laws of nature, we're discussing the boundaries of a game, in which the laws are created by humans themselves. The nature of Pokemon is not identical to that of the laws of nature, it is man-made, and the game was structured in a way that you do not need to catch other Pokemon to beat it. If they were against this type of play, they would have halted it after the first generation in some way likely by making your starter too weak to conquer the game on their own, but it has been a valid play style since then in every single gen to release.

There can be a person who plays to get the cool weapon, but doesn't give a rats about grinding it. There's many different types of people out there, and the beauty of these types of online games is that's usually the way the developers intend it to be. For there to be no certain course of action one must take to enjoy themselves. That's one of the identifying factors of most online games today, picking your route. Choosing your story and your interest. PvP, collecting pets, killing bosses, finding loot, getting achievements. Many people do each of these things *exclusively* in games where they may not even be the most difficult or even rewarding activity. It's all up to preference. That being said, you can't claim that there's anything that is required, because there is nothing that is required. The only requirements in the game are that of numerical values in order to play in a higher mode, or use a certain weapon...which are two different goals for some people.

All this being said it's not that I'm against improving the games loot/item grinding/etc systems...I'm just saying arguing the "requirement" point.

[Coatl]

To hunt for better gear and upgrade it to make it better.

That's sort of the point of every MMORPG. <_>
That common goal is attracts you like a magnet to people with the same goal as you. Yes, I get that in hindsight shinies in a virtual japanese game is not a big deal, but there's no reason we can't enjoy the game and want a better drop system.

[UnLucky]

I never grind, I have the weapons I want too and like 500grinders and I still haven't start to grind them and I will never grind them.

And I'm sure you're quite happy having weapons at half strength.

[Sp-24]

There's picking your route because the game is designed that way and picking your route because the developers themselves couldn't make even one. PSO2 is definitely the latter. There's a somewhat tolerable gameplay, bland randomly generated quests, horribly frustrating grinding and dress up simulator, all cobbled together in hopes that somebody out there throws their money at at least one of the aspects of the game.

Oh, and guess which route can most of the western gamers take? The route to a less frustrating game.

[Xaeris]

Do people actually play this game and never grind their stuff? I can't even imagine doing that because that feels like it defeats the purpose of the game:

To hunt for better gear and upgrade it to make it better.

Me, I grind my stuff, but when I look in the lobby, it's not uncommon for me to see people who've settled for +5-7. I always had a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of people in WoW who played for literally no other reason than to collect pets, or any of the other petty (for lack of a better word) reasons to play the game apart from raiding or PvP, but a game's purpose is what you make it.

[Lostbob117]

And I'm sure you're quite happy having weapons at half strength.

http://arkive.info/weapons/Bloody%20Art%20/%20Nacht
http://arkive.info/weapons/Kronos%20Scythe%20/%20Nacht
http://arkive.info/weapons/Drill%20Knuckles%20/%20Nacht

Sure I guess you can say something like that. I'm almost able to use them to after I get another lvl on hunter.

[gigawuts]

I don't disagree that the system could use some tweaking, but lets not forget the appeal of said loot decreases as you make it significantly easier to acquire. People like items, but other people like the novelty of said items. With an overly gracious system, the novelty is gone and so is the thrill of the hunt, or gamble. And the players that come with it.

The appeal of loot is linked to how unique it is and its utility.

Take braolets & lambda braolets. They are VERY appealing. Why? Their latent is entirely unique and offers utility. Take seitenweises - again, unique and utility. They're more expensive than the higher damage Ruby Ascent. People would rather have a bit more PP than a bit more damage, it seems, and only one rod offers that.

This is and has always been the theme of PSO/U/etc. Items that do things. Or, no, doing things at all. Be that gotten via skilltrees, items, PA's/techs, what have you. People like to do different things as they continue to play a game. I mean, that's kind of the point, right? It's why everyone rushes back for a big update - new things.

So yeah. I repeat this a lot, and I'll repeat it again: Give everything a different and unique useful ability, then make it all more common. Players will spend more time collecting everything than they will hunting just one thing, and they'll be happier while they do it because every next item is something fresh and new.

If they hadn't proven this concept in the past I wouldn't be so belligerent in conveying the point, but they have. It's why PSO took off like it did. It's why many currently popular games take off like they have. TF2 was losing players until they added unlocks. Then they eventually launched F2P. Look at it now. Does that game need grinding? No. Does that game need 1 in a million droprates for good items? No. So...tell me again, why do items need to be so crazy rare and hard to improve again?

There was exactly one reason this game could have possibly had for needing this kind of system at the start and TF2 didn't: A pre-existing playerbase. Well, PSO2 has its playerbase now. The excuses are all gone.


...but you're the one splitting hairs.

You need air to breath to do anything. We aren't discussing the laws of nature, we're discussing the boundaries of a game, in which the laws are created by humans themselves. The nature of Pokemon is not identical to that of the laws of nature, it is man-made, and the game was structured in a way that you do not need to catch other Pokemon to beat it. If they were against this type of play, they would have halted it after the first generation in some way likely by making your starter too weak to conquer the game on their own, but it has been a valid play style since then in every single gen to release.

There can be a person who plays to get the cool weapon, but doesn't give a rats about grinding it. There's many different types of people out there, and the beauty of these types of online games is that's usually the way the developers intend it to be. For there to be no certain course of action one must take to enjoy themselves. That's one of the identifying factors of most online games today, picking your route. Choosing your story and your interest. PvP, collecting pets, killing bosses, finding loot, getting achievements. Many people do each of these things *exclusively* in games where they may not even be the most difficult or even rewarding activity. It's all up to preference. That being said, you can't claim that there's anything that is required, because there is nothing that is required. The only requirements in the game are that of numerical values in order to play in a higher mode, or use a certain weapon...which are two different goals for some people.

All this being said it's not that I'm against improving the games loot/item grinding/etc systems...I'm just saying arguing the "requirement" point.

What you "have" to do hinges on what you want to do. You want to beat the game. You don't have to beat the game. I don't need to hear about what you can do to beat the game. I just need to say you don't have to beat the game. Your point is now invalid.

Making dumb arguments is fun, I can see why you do it.

[UnLucky]

http://arkive.info/weapons/Bloody%20Art%20/%20Nacht
http://arkive.info/weapons/Kronos%20Scythe%20/%20Nacht
http://arkive.info/weapons/Drill%20Knuckles%20/%20Nacht

Sure I guess you can say something like that. I'm almost able to use them to after I get another lvl on hunter.

Not really sure what the point of linking these were.

It even says those can get 75% better right there.

And weapons with twice as much base and a 90% grind bonus are in the game.

[Lostbob117]

Not really sure what the point of linking these were.

It even says those can get 75% better right there.

And weapons with twice as much base and a 90% grind bonus are in the game.

The point isn't about how strong they are, they look too cool. And that is why I get weapons.

[UnLucky]

Too bad there's nothing like weapon skinning then, huh

[Sp-24]

There was exactly one reason this game could have possibly had for needing this kind of system at the start and TF2 didn't: A pre-existing playerbase. Well, PSO2 has its playerbase now. The excuses are all gone.
Because the Japanese players will eat it up. That's why the game is being delayed. It will not appeal to enough people in its current state, and completely revamping it for the better just to attract a few more players (it will still stay over-the-top-anime, so no mainstream) is ridiculous.

I wonder how come they still haven't sold it to some MMO milker like Aeria and IP-locked their server yet.

[gigawuts]

Because the Japanese players will eat it up. That's why the game is being delayed. It will not appeal to enough people in its current state, and completely revamping it for the better just to attract a few more players (it will still stay over-the-top-anime, so no mainstream) is ridiculous.

I wonder how come they still haven't sold it to some MMO milker like Aeria and IP-locked their server yet.

Oh, I know, and I'm glad you said this because it goes back to my original point before it was responded to and required analogies and other dumb bullshit.

JP players don't know better. EN players do. This shit will crash and burn in the west.

Out of everything I've ever had the possibility of being wrong about, this is the one I hope the most that I'm right about. If they launch this exact model in the west I want it to crash so hard no game developer will ever consider creating such a horrible system for the rest of time.

[Sierhiet]

The appeal of loot is linked to how unique it is and its utility.

Take braolets & lambda braolets. They are VERY appealing. Why? Their latent is entirely unique and offers utility. Take seitenweises - again, unique and utility. They're more expensive than the higher damage Ruby Ascent. People would rather have a bit more PP than a bit more damage, it seems, and only one rod offers that.

This is and has always been the theme of PSO/U/etc. Items that do things. Or, no, doing things at all. Be that gotten via skilltrees, items, PA's/techs, what have you. People like to do different things as they continue to play a game. I mean, that's kind of the point, right? It's why everyone rushes back for a big update - new things.

So yeah. I repeat this a lot, and I'll repeat it again: Give everything a different and unique useful ability, then make it all more common. Players will spend more time collecting everything than they will hunting just one thing, and they'll be happier while they do it because every next item is something fresh and new.

If they hadn't proven this concept in the past I wouldn't be so belligerent in conveying the point, but they have. It's why PSO took off like it did. It's why many currently popular games take off like they have. TF2 was losing players until they added unlocks. Then they eventually launched F2P. Look at it now. Does that game need grinding? No. Does that game need 1 in a million droprates for good items? No. So...tell me again, why do items need to be so crazy rare and hard to improve again?

There was exactly one reason this game could have possibly had for needing this kind of system at the start and TF2 didn't: A pre-existing playerbase. Well, PSO2 has its playerbase now. The excuses are all gone.

Your reaching a bit with this. Utility is great and I agree it is a factor, but the initial driving force behind a lot of players wanting a specific item or weapon is the rarity and novelty. The idea that 1. It looks great 2. Its is useful 3. It is unique and uncommon. I would argue in that order. Especially for endgame users. I don't want something that everyone else can get by following an easy road map. My rare is my badge of honor as a player and member of this community. PSU towards the end gave you a system to boost your odds of acquisition. You played on your 3 star luck days. You ran repeatedly and efficiently. In some instances, you learned patterns for generated maps, in order to find rare enemies, which would yield your prey. And as you did this, the chances of getting said item increased.

TF2 is not a good example because the highlight in an MMO is the avatar. Your comparing the appeal of two different genres. People can play an FPS all day. The appeal of the game is in the comradry and tactical play style. It is also arguable, the hipster thing to do today, to like TF2 as a PC gamer.

[Zipzo]

What you "have" to do hinges on what you want to do. You want to beat the game. You don't have to beat the game. I don't need to hear about what you can do to beat the game. I just need to say you don't have to beat the game. Your point is now invalid.

Making dumb arguments is fun, I can see why you do it.You're right, your argument is still dumb as shit, because I said nothing about "beating" the game, nor am I talking about what you have to do. Me (and I assume Lostbob) are talking about what you don't have to do. The answer is anything. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to do anything even if you want to do something that requires you to do it. You brought the word "have" in to this, not me.

The only thing that is absolutely 100% required to do anything in PSO2, is have a basic understanding of the controls to move. Maybe someone likes purely running around the lobby to chat (sometimes I wonder, stepping by B20).

I used the word *optional*, because everything is just that, optional. Living is optional too, go be my guest and end it for yourself if you please.

The idiocy you emit is astounding.

[Lostbob117]

You're right, your argument is still dumb as shit, because I said nothing about "beating" the game, nor am I talking about what you have to do. Me (and I assume Lostbob) are talking about what you don't have to do. The answer is anything. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to do anything even if you want to do something that requires you to do it. You brought the word "have" in to this, not me.

The only thing that is absolutely 100% required to do anything in PSO2, is have a basic understanding of the controls to move. Maybe someone likes purely running around the lobby to chat (sometimes I wonder, stepping by B20).

I used the word *optional*, because everything is just that, optional. Living is optional too, go be my guest and end it for yourself if you please.

The idiocy you emit is astounding.

Well at least there is someone who understands what I'm talking about.

[Z-0]

Sierhiet, have you played PSO2?

There is like... hardly ANYTHING you can do to efficiently hunt a rare, except keep running the same randomly generated maps each time, which might not necessarily have many of the enemy you want. You can't do them faster as you can't learn patterns or how to deal with specific spawns in certain ways, you can't run particular quests with the most of a certain enemy, as it just doesn't work like that. All you can do in PSO2 is cough up a rare drop booster from SEGA (or grind for about 3 days to get a 250% booster that lasts for a godlike 30 minutes).

Also, the appeal of PSO2 is probably the fact that it's Waifu Dressup online, hencewhy scratches are the only things which come out really quickly and without fail, unlike concrete content which keeps players for a while. The RNG content such as grinding and the unfair rarity of the items is probably just something to try and keep players playing for longer while they stall all their updates, giving them money over the long term.

SEGA's game design is fantastic for money, but not very good for the player.

[gigawuts]

Your reaching a bit with this. Utility is great and I agree it is a factor, but the initial driving force behind a lot of players wanting a specific item or weapon is the rarity and novelty. The idea that 1. It looks great 2. Its is useful 3. It is unique and uncommon. I would argue in that order. Especially for endgame users. I don't want something that everyone else can get by following an easy road map. My rare is my badge of honor as a player and member of this community. PSU towards the end gave you a system to boost your odds of acquisition. You played on your 3 star luck days. You ran repeatedly and efficiently. In some instances, you learned patterns for generated maps, in order to find rare enemies, which would yield your prey. And as you did this, the chances of getting said item increased.

TF2 is not a good example because the highlight in an MMO is the avatar. Your comparing the appeal of two different genres. People can play an FPS all day. The appeal of the game is in the comradry and tactical play style. It is also arguable, the hipster thing to do today, to like TF2 as a PC gamer.

Between hats and misc items I am reasonably certain they turned TF2 into being about your avatar there, too.

And, honestly, all you had to do was say you want your rares to be special and that you don't want anyone else to have something like it. I woud've dropped this conversation like a dirty diaper. Have fun with that playstyle.

Also, hipster to like TF2. Did they change what hipster means again? Good lord.


You're right, your argument is still dumb as shit, because I said nothing about "beating" the game, nor am I talking about what you have to do. Me (and I assume Lostbob) are talking about what you don't have to do. The answer is anything. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to do anything even if you want to do something that requires you to do it. You brought the word "have" in to this, not me.

The only thing that is absolutely 100% required to do anything in PSO2, is have a basic understanding of the controls to move. Maybe someone likes purely running around the lobby to chat (sometimes I wonder, stepping by B20).

I used the word *optional*, because everything is just that, optional. Living is optional too, go be my guest and end it for yourself if you please.

The idiocy you emit is astounding.

Then why are you replying. All you ever do is state the obvious. Techer has better melee damage than force - no shit. You don't have to do anything in anything at any point in time. Again - no shit. Did you just sign up for a philosophy class?

Cute insult at the end by the way. I wouldn't have known for sure if it was you or not if you hadn't made it, but now there's no doubt it's Mr. Sheathe Cancel.

[UnLucky]

Your reaching a bit with this.
Using his example, the Seitenweise is at least twice as expensive on the player shops than a Gramasciento, despite the latter trading in for a weapon two steps above the former in terms of raw T-Atk. You're telling me this is more about style than the only 10* rod with boosted PP regen?

[Gardios]

Do people actually play this game and never grind their stuff? I can't even imagine doing that because that feels like it defeats the purpose of the game:

To hunt for better gear and upgrade it to make it better.

I got my Force to 40 without actually getting any skills, I'm sure I'll forget about grinding my weapons as well when the time comes. ￣ω￣;

[Z-0]

oh my goodness, did you never think that force was annoying without PP regen, or that you were really weak for some reason, or that bolt skills cost way too much PP.

D:

I mean, first thing I ever do on a new game is find out what there is. What all the shops are, what the NPCs do, what I can do, what I'm supposed to do, etc.

[Sierhiet]

Sierhiet, have you played PSO2?

There is like... hardly ANYTHING you can do to efficiently hunt a rare, except keep running the same randomly generated maps each time, which might not necessarily have many of the enemy you want. You can't do them faster as you can't learn patterns or how to deal with specific spawns in certain ways, you can't run particular quests with the most of a certain enemy, as it just doesn't work like that. All you can do in PSO2 is cough up a rare drop booster from SEGA (or grind for about 3 days to get a 250% booster that lasts for a godlike 30 minutes).

Also, the appeal of PSO2 is probably the fact that it's Waifu Dressup online, hencewhy scratches are the only things which come out really quickly and without fail, unlike concrete content which keeps players for a while. The RNG content such as grinding and the unfair rarity of the items is probably just something to try and keep players playing for longer while they stall all their updates, giving them money over the long term.

SEGA's game design is fantastic for money, but not very good for the player.

I agree with you. Like I said, I dont disagree that the system needs a tweak. I'm probably in the minority in saying I'd of preferred it to be much more like PSU. This is right down to the PM bots and separate elemental. I'm just saying, keep in mind what your asking for when you say you want an overhaul.

You certainly don't want things the way they are now, but you don't want this to turn into a simple achievements based system either.


You're telling me this is more about style than the only 10* rod with boosted PP regen?
No. I said utility is a factor. I'm simply saying it isn't the only factor with rare and novelty weapons.

[UnLucky]

The only thing that is absolutely 100% required to do anything in PSO2, is have a basic understanding of the controls to move. I used the word *optional*, because everything is just that, optional.

So what are we arguing anymore? Sega shouldn't add any new content because everything is optional anyway?

"Well personally, I'm totally satisfied with just the first area of the first quest in Forest"

[Gardios]

oh my goodness, did you never think that force was annoying without PP regen, or that you were really weak for some reason, or that bolt skills cost way too much PP.

D:

I mean, first thing I ever do on a new game is find out what there is. What all the shops are, what the NPCs do, what I can do, what I'm supposed to do, etc.
I've pretty much whacked stuff with a rod anyway from level 1 so I've kinda gotten used to it. Remembering that I have a skill tree and getting PP Charge Advance was like playing a different class.

This is even more embarrassing since I made the skill sim and all...

[UnLucky]

you were like "skills. woah. no one should live without this. it is my calling"

[Lostbob117]

So what are we arguing anymore? Sega shouldn't add any new content because everything is optional anyway?

"Well personally, I'm totally satisfied with just the first area of the first quest in Forest"

No cause, other people wouldn't be satisfied with just the first area.

[UnLucky]

No cause, other people wouldn't be satisfied with just the first area.

Well, maybe they just really like that forest environment and atmosphere.

Caves? Yuck, no thanks.

[gigawuts]

I agree with you. Like I said, I dont disagree that the system needs a tweak. I'm probably in the minority in saying I'd of preferred it to be much more like PSU. This is right down to the PM bots and separate elemental. I'm just saying, keep in mind what your asking for when you say you want an overhaul.

You certainly don't want things the way they are now, but you don't want this to turn into a simple achievements based system either.

See, this is the problem.

Some items were easy to get in PSU too.

This whole world you live in, where everything is black and white - by which I mean, everything is 1 in a million or everything is 1 in a hundred - is fucking daft and not what I'm saying at all.

When I say they should use a system proven successful in PSO1, I'm referencing a system that had multiple tiers of rarity. Psycho wands didn't drop at the same rate as varistas. But varistas were a fuck of a lot more useful with zero grind than ANYTHING of that commonness in PSO2. Heaven punishers were WAY rarer than frozen shooters, but both were still useful. So were cbringer rifles, and pan arms blades. THose last two were useful not for their raw damage, but for the classes that could use them.

Everything was unique, and desirable to some degree or another, and usually was not completely invalidated by the existence of other things. When it was, you just traded or vended it and moved on to hunt something new. Hunts ranged from an average of months to an average of days. The fun was in mixing what you hunted. Here? Everything averages weeks to months. Full stop.


No cause, other people wouldn't be satisfied with just the first area.

Woah woah woah, hold the phone. I thought some people were happy with the forest. You don't have to play past that, dude.

[Lostbob117]

See, this is the problem.

Some items were easy to get in PSU too.

This whole world you live in, where everything is black and white - by which I mean, everything is 1 in a million or everything is 1 in a hundred - is fucking daft and not what I'm saying at all.

When I say they should use a system proven successful in PSO1, I'm referencing a system that had multiple tiers of rarity. Psycho wands didn't drop at the same rate as varistas. But varistas were a fuck of a lot more useful with zero grind than ANYTHING of that commonness in PSO2. Heaven punishers were WAY rarer than frozen shooters, but both were still useful. So were cbringer rifles, and pan arms blades. THose last two were useful not for their raw damage, but for the classes that could use them.

Everything was unique, and desirable to some degree or another, and usually was not completely invalidated by the existence of other things. When it was, you just traded or vended it and moved on to hunt something new. Hunts ranged from an average of months to an average of days. The fun was in mixing what you hunted. Here? Everything averages weeks to months. Full stop.



Woah woah woah, hold the phone. I thought some people were happy with the forest. You don't have to play past that, dude.

They don't but that shouldn't mean other people should be held back in new areas for some people like the first area.

[Z-0]

JE SUIS PERDU

I'm lost.

[gigawuts]

They don't but that shouldn't mean other people should be held back in new areas for some people like the first area.

What do you mean? Some people wouldn't be held back because other people don't care about a feature?

That's a really good point you're making, Lostbob. Do you think we could be applying this logic to other aspects of the game? :wacko:

[Sp-24]

They don't but that shouldn't mean other people should be held back in new areas for some people like the first area.
But other areas are completely optional. You are just whining.

And so is forest, by the way. Why aren't you grateful yet?

[Sierhiet]

See, this is the problem.

Some items were easy to get in PSU too.

This whole world you live in, where everything is black and white - by which I mean, everything is 1 in a million or everything is 1 in a hundred - is fucking daft and not what I'm saying at all.

When I say they should use a system proven successful in PSO1, I'm referencing a system that had multiple tiers of rarity. Psycho wands didn't drop at the same rate as varistas. But varistas were a fuck of a lot more useful with zero grind than ANYTHING of that commonness in PSO2. Heaven punishers were WAY rarer than frozen shooters, but both were still useful. So were cbringer rifles, and pan arms blades. THose last two were useful not for their raw damage, but for the classes that could use them.

Everything was unique, and desirable to some degree or another, and usually was not completely invalidated by the existence of other things. When it was, you just traded or vended it and moved on to hunt something new. Hunts ranged from an average of months to an average of days. The fun was in mixing what you hunted. Here? Everything averages weeks to months. Full stop.

Honestly? I agree for the third time. Thats great and all, but you just got off of using TF2 as an example which is essentially an achievements based system. Its not really like what you've mentioned above at all.

[Lostbob117]

What do you mean? Some people wouldn't be held back because other people don't care about a feature?

That's a really good point you're making, Lostbob. Do you think we could be applying this logic to other aspects of the game? :wacko:

People aren't held back from grinding and collecting weapons just cause some other don't really want to grind.


You are just whining.

Point out where I am whining.

[Sp-24]

People don't mind grinding being impossible and punishing to the player because they don't do it. People also don't mind AQs being completely unbearable with +7 Red Weapon instead of a 10☆ that, by some luck, was grinded to +10, because they don't do those, either. So, everything is fine!

[Lostbob117]

People don't mind grinding being impossible and punishing to the player because they don't do it. People also don't mind AQs being completely unbearable with +7 Red Weapon instead of a 10☆ that, by some luck, was grinded to +10, because they don't do those, either. So, everything is fine!

How am I punished for not grinding?

[gigawuts]

People aren't held back from grinding and collecting weapons just cause some other don't really want to grind.



Point out where I am whining.

They are, actually. That's the problem. The random system will prevent success at - yep - random. Try and try and try, spend a hundred million meseta, and success is still not guaranteed. Z-O can tell you more about spending a fortune on one single weapon.


Honestly? I agree for the third time. Thats great and all, but you just got off of using TF2 as an example which is essentially an achievements based system. Its not really like what you've mentioned above at all.

Er, when you say achievements-based, how do you mean? Because items haven't come from achievements in ages. I haven't kept up in a long time, but they stopped doing that a while ago when they added item drops. They initially worked that way, yeah, but now you get like 8-10 items a week or something (over the course of I think 10 hours of gameplay, resetting every wednesday IIRC, with some portion of excess time rolling over).

[Lostbob117]

They are, actually. That's the problem. The random system will prevent success at - yep - random. Try and try and try, spend a hundred million meseta, and success is still not guaranteed. Z-O can tell you more about spending a fortune on one single weapon.


So what you're saying is, it is my fault for not grinding is why people are failing to grind a weapon? That is just the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Z-0]

Z-O can tell you more about spending a fortune on one single weapon.

Oh yeah...

My Noise Blower took a grand total of roughly 13 protects to go from +8 to +10, alongside a few 5% boosters.
My Elder Rifle took 18 protects to go from +8 to +10, alongside a few 5% boosters also, and I spent an extra amount to put it with 4 slots (Ability III), but the Ability III failed and I was left with the standard 3 slot.
My Craft Plosion took a grand total of 1,100 grinders, 24 -1 Risk Reductions and 9 full protects (which were all used at +9).
My red FC mechguns took about 600 grinders and 15 -1s, which was a bit painful although not as bad as the Craft Plosion.

I have the money to grind pretty much anything up, but it's not nice to lose millions just to one weapon because the game decides it doesn't like me. I have 58 million on my characters right now, and I would've had more if Dudu wasn't mean. :(

[EvilMag]

Took a friend of mine around 17 full protects to get his Seitenheise from +9 to +10.

The day he got it to +10 was the day before they released the new Pxro weapons. Including that Red FC rod.

[gigawuts]

So what you're saying is, it is my fault for not grinding is why people are failing to grind a weapon? That is just the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

It is a very dumb thing, and I'm wondering how the fuck you thought that's what I was saying.

You not caring does not make a system okay. The same way someone who only likes forest doesn't make it okay for only forest to be good.

Pay extra hard in school tomorrow, you really need it.

[Lostbob117]

It is a very dumb thing, and I'm wondering how the fuck you thought that's what I was saying.

You not caring does not make a system okay. The same way someone who only likes forest doesn't make it okay for only forest to be good.

Pay extra hard in school tomorrow, you really need it.

I never said the system was okay or not. I just said grinding was optional.

[gigawuts]

I never said the system was okay or not. I just said grinding was optional.

And other people wouldn't be satisfied without it.

The logical part of my brain is telling me you're trolling me, but having seen the kind of shit you say before I really would not be surprised if you're trying your hardest to understand what's going on here.

[Z-0]

Now I'm totally lost.

[Lostbob117]

And other people wouldn't be satisfied without it.

The logical part of my brain is telling me you're trolling me, but having seen the kind of shit you say before I really would not be surprised if you're trying your hardest to understand what's going on here.

Okay, I never said anything about getting rid of it. All I said was grinding was optional as in you may or may not grind your stuff. You started to rant about all of this pointless stuff. Apparently when I said it was optional you just went off about it when it's not even a big deal about if you grind or not.

[gigawuts]

Okay, I never said anything about getting rid of it. All I said was grinding was optional as in you may or may not grind your stuff. You started to rant about all of this pointless stuff. Apparently when I said it was optional you just went off about it when it's not even a big deal about if you grind or not.

When I rant, I do not stop until I've written fifteen dissertations. You'll know it when you see it.

The system currently in place is terrible and not enough to satisfy most players who want to improve their weapons without facing the thread of either making their things worse, or having to spend 30 million meseta (or more if you keep rolling snake eyes).

[Sp-24]

No, seriously. Try doing AQs (which are, by the way, the only thing the endgame has to offer) with subpar ungrinded items.

[Lostbob117]

When I rant, I do not stop until I've written fifteen dissertations. You'll know it when you see it.

The system currently in place is terrible and not enough to satisfy most players who want to improve their weapons without facing the thread of either making their things worse, or having to spend 30 million meseta (or more if you keep rolling snake eyes).

Sega is making those +7 things (Unless added already) then they gave you the perfect grind thing. What else do you want?

[gigawuts]

Sega is making those +7 things (Unless added already) then they gave you the perfect grind thing. What else do you want?

The problem isn't now, nor has it ever been, simply getting to +7. It's everything after that.

Or, well, that's not fair. I've had some really bad experiences costing me 300 grinders before I can even reach +7 one time. But, that item will cost money, which will merely perpetuate the problem of grinding being a fear-based profiteering system. It's like in-game racketeering. They create a problem and then sell insurance for that problem. Good for business, bad for playing.

edit: There is no perfect grind thing, btw. There's just a grind loss thing. Grind rates are unchanged. You can still spend 30 million meseta without succeeding. Please take more math next year.

[Sp-24]

The whole game is about making you gamble with pretend money and hope that you get addicted enough to switch to use AC Scratch, though. You really can't expect them to be very subtle with it when the other reason to use AC Scratch is "crotch in yo face" dresses for girls. (so don't even think of whining)

[Inazuma]

I'm confused. Are some people here seriously trying to say that because something is optional, it can't be bad?

I would disagree about grinding being optional, but even if it was, that doesn't mean it's not a horrible system.

[Lostbob117]

The problem isn't now, nor has it ever been, simply getting to +7. It's everything after that.

Or, well, that's not fair. I've had some really bad experiences costing me 300 grinders before I can even reach +7 one time. But, that item will cost money, which will merely perpetuate the problem of grinding being a fear-based profiteering system. It's like in-game racketeering. They create a problem and then sell insurance for that problem. Good for business, bad for playing.

edit: There is no perfect grind thing, btw. There's just a grind loss thing. Grind rates are unchanged. You can still spend 30 million meseta without succeeding. Please take more math next year.

Oh thought someone said something there being a perfect one somewhere, don't remember. The bold is absurd I don't know what there is for grinding since you know, I don't grind.

[Zipzo]

Cute insult at the end by the way. I wouldn't have known for sure if it was you or not if you hadn't made it, but now there's no doubt it's Mr. Sheathe Cancel.

How are you any better? Just because you hide your insults behind your way with words doesn't make you pristine.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious because you seem to have a clear lack of understanding for it, which I guess makes you incredibly dense. Otherwise I wouldn't feel the need to state it so. This is how you do? If someone agrees with you it's alright but if they make a point, oh, that's already sooooo obvious. You're so full of it.

Sheath cancelling is a made up term I concocted for measuring the time in which you need to wait before casting with a talis so you don't mess up techs while using a controller. I don't understand the teasing power that using it here has. Though stooping as low as bringing up a forever ago conversation when the game first came out (or so?), I guess that makes you mature, doesn't it? By the way...how did you have less posts than me back in those days? Forum much?

The fact of the matter is this...

Whether it needs to be improved or not is a non-factor. Personally, I'm all for improvements in the games systems. That includes grinding, loot, reward factor, what have you. However, to say that these things need to be improved because they are required is false. They should be improved to better the enjoyment of the game for those who desperately want them improved (which is probably a majority, and to that end you could say improving it is required to make the bottom line...if you knew the bottom line). None of these are required to enjoy the game though. Some enjoy the game as is. Some don't. The ones that don't feel everything has to change or it's a boat of fail, the rest don't care. That's a pretty common element in MMO communities.

[gigawuts]

How are you any better? Just because you hide your insults behind your way with words doesn't make you pristine.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious because you seem to have a clear lack of understanding for it, which I guess makes you incredibly dense. Otherwise I wouldn't feel the need to state it so. This is how you do? If someone agrees with you it's alright but if they make a point, oh, that's already sooooo obvious. You're so full of it.

Sheath cancelling is a made up term I concocted for measuring the time in which you need to wait before casting so you don't mess up techs while using a controller. I don't understand the teasing power that using it here has. Though stooping as low as bringing up a half year ago conversation (or so?) I guess that makes you mature, doesn't it? By the way...how did you have less posts than me back in those days? Forum much?

The fact of the matter is this...

Whether it needs to be improved or not is a non-factor. Personally, I'm all for improvements in the games systems. That includes grinding, loot, reward factor, what have you. However, to say that these things need to be improved because they are required is false. They should be improved to better the enjoyment of the game for those who desperately want them improved (which is probably a majority, and to that end you could say improving it is required to make the bottom line...if you knew the bottom line). None of these are required to enjoy the game though. Some enjoy the game as is. Some don't. The ones that don't feel everything has to change or it's a boat of fail, the rest don't care. That's a pretty common element in MMO communities.

I didn't read this and I'm probably not going to read most of what else you say.

I just wanted to let you know about that. Go cancel some sheathes about it :wacko:

[Zipzo]

I didn't read this and I'm probably not going to read most of what else you say.

I just wanted to let you know about that. Go cancel some sheathes about it :wacko:
All the more pathetic to lie about not reading something so you can fake being swag on an internet forum.

Also you're going to have to clarify how the sheath cancel thing is meant to be insulting, if it's to be of any humorous use since I just don't get how it's funny...

[Sp-24]

I'm not sure if anyone said it already, but go on, try doing an AQ with anything but perfect gear.

Oh yeah, AQs are optional. Well, thankfully, PSO2 has so many other ways for you to pass the time! (that are incredibly boring, but also completely optional)

Anyway, it's time to conclude the topic: don't even think about whining about something if it's optional. Lesson learned, now let's all go discuss talises or something.

[Zipzo]

I'm not sure if anyone said it already, but go on, try doing an AQ with anything but perfect gear.

Oh yeah, AQs are optional. Well, thankfully, PSO2 has so many other ways for you to pass the time! (that are incredibly boring, but also completely optional)

Anyway, it's time to conclude the topic: don't even think about whining about something if it's optional. Lesson learned, now let's all go discuss talises or something.
This would be an actual point except you can do AQ's with shitty gear easily, therefore it's a terrible point...

To be fair, whining about something if it's optional is indeed the wrong way to go about getting it changed. Most developers prefer well thought out dissertation on why something could be improved and how, and completely ignore the rest which the majority of is constituted with whining. So yes, whining about things is always the wrong way to go, even if you're right.

[UnLucky]

The community is split. Those who choose to grind know it is bullshit.
Those who choose not to, either don't care, or know it is bullshit and don't bother.

[Sp-24]

At least now we know why so many PSO-Worlders prefer rods, I guess.

Oh, and Sega promised to make grinding slightly less horrible in a newsflash a month or so ago. Still the same RNG crap, though.

[UnLucky]

Oh, and Sega promised to make grinding slightly less horrible in a newsflash a month or so ago. Still the same RNG crap, though.

$5 says the only change they planned for that is the ->7 recycle ticket

which doesn't make +10ing 10*s any easier on your sanity or wallet

[gigawuts]

At least now we know why so many PSO-Worlders prefer rods, I guess.

Oh, and Sega promised to make grinding slightly less horrible in a newsflash a month or so ago. Still the same RNG crap, though.

I think this is what the +7 item is.

It doesn't fix grinding even a little bit. It'll wind up costing a bit more than about the average cost to get to +7, which is good because the part I hate about grinding is having to deal with exceeding the average by several times, but...the problem is losing grind.

If you never fell more than 2 lower than your highest achieved grind I'd be totally happy. Going 9-1 is really really really bad. Going 9-6, also bad. Going 9-8-7, bad, but if it stopped there and never got worse? I'd really be okay with that. What I hate about grinding is there's always a chance you won't succeed, and then you can wind up broke and at +1 at the same time (it has indeed happened to me).

[Dextro]

I think if there was a chance to rise 2-3 levels (no matter how low the chance) instead of the standard 1, it'd be a little more 'fair'.
Even an AC item that raises the grind by 2levels instead of 1, or 3 levels instead of 1 (but doesn't raise the success chance) would be a step in the right direction over this kinda pointless Instant+7 thing.
Sometimes I really could've sworn that my weapon grind jumped 2 levels up, but maybe that was just me mashing enter so fast that i didn't notice...

[Zipzo]

I think this is what the +7 item is.

It doesn't fix grinding even a little bit. It'll wind up costing a bit more than about the average cost to get to +7, which is good because the part I hate about grinding is having to deal with exceeding the average by several times, but...the problem is losing grind.

If you never fell more than 2 lower than your highest achieved grind I'd be totally happy. Going 9-1 is really really really bad. Going 9-6, also bad. Going 9-8-7, bad, but if it stopped there and never got worse? I'd really be okay with that. What I hate about grinding is there's always a chance you won't succeed, and then you can wind up broke and at +1 at the same time (it has indeed happened to me).
Many games operate under the pretense that grinding/enhancing/enchanting your gear is not required. It isn't just PSO2. If you took a step back and looked at grinding as something that's "nice to have", it would make a bit more sense to you why it's not a big deal if you fail a grind here or there or even everywhere.

This is even more justification to the point that grinding is optional. Maybe they have no intention of "improving" the system in the way you would see fit, because they didn't design the game to the point where getting a +10 is absolutely required to complete content. It's a neat convenience to get your weapon up +1, not something that should frustrate you or make you feel held back, because it technically does not hold you back, empirically.

You are stronger, you may kill things quicker, and it ultimately improves your game play in a completely passive way that doesn't force you to alter your play style at all, and that is enjoyable to some. Unnecessary to many.

The fact you've experienced hardships in grinding is of no consequence to anything but how you view grinding to be necessary. If getting a +10 was absolutely required for you to participate in something, then your frustration would be totally justified. As it is, it's simply a nice convenience to successfully + a weapon, and nothing more. The fact you get frustrated by it is on you.

I've had some catastrophic grind failure chains that led to millions of meseta being lost, and I can reference other games with similar or worse systems that have done me wrong in more places than PSO2 has (TERA...oh my god don't get me started on +12). It doesn't bother me though. It sucks to see it go -, and it's nice to see it + but it doesn't hinge my entire enjoyment of the game. The frustration in TERA is justified, because you actually need gear of a certain level to complete some content without it being voraciously difficult.

[Sp-24]

That's quite an essay to defend something that is completely fine already.

[Inazuma]

Zipzo, You can't seriously expect to convince Gigawuts to not care about improving his character, in a game that is all about improving your character. That's the main goal of playing games like PSO2. You level up, learn new abilities and acquire stronger gear. If you want to ignore the "game" part of PSO2 and treat it like a fancy chat room, you can do that, but it's unreasonable to expect others to do the same.

Gigawuts is playing the game the way it was designed and he is totally right about how bullshit the grinding system is, and in general how much the game relies on RNG.

Zipzo, you may not care about fighting monsters or being good at the game, but most people do. The grinding system is bad, and complaining about it is good because complaints are what pushes Sega to fix things.

If PSO2 were food, Gigawuts would eat it, while Zipzo would wear it like a hat.

[UnLucky]

And I will leave it in the fridge for when I feel like eating it later but by then it's all stale and gross and something is growing on it.

[gigawuts]

If PSO2 were food, Gigawuts would eat it, while Zipzo would wear it like a hat.

I think this is the most complementary thing anyone has ever said about me on this forum.

[gravityvx]

If PSO2 were food, Gigawuts would eat it, while Zipzo would wear it like a hat.

Eat it then complain about how it tasted bad, needed more flavor or how he couldnt give the left overs to someone else.

[Sp-24]

Well, if your food is better off as an accessory, then maybe you goofed with your career of choice (or just fail at cooking).

Unless eating that food is optional, then people better stfu.

[gigawuts]

Eat it then complain about how it tasted bad, needed more flavor or how he couldnt give the left overs to someone else.

Sounds like PSO2 yeah.

[UnLucky]

So what if PSO2 has flies in it? The restaurant down the street is infested with rats!

[Dextro]

Eat it then complain about how it tasted bad, needed more flavor or how he couldnt give the left overs to someone else.

And each time he sent it back to the kitchen, it'd have a 50/50 chance of coming back either better or worse than before.

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

So you guys know, in the game industry, when something is delayed like this. It is usually canceled.

[gravityvx]

And each time he sent it back to the kitchen, it'd have a 50/50 chance of coming back either better or worse than before.

50/50 in this game is about a 25% or less chance so most likely would come back worse.

[Sp-24]

Shibarashiku un ga nai na, kimi wa.

[gigawuts]

50/50 in this game is about a 25% or less chance so most likely would come back worse.

Worse, and cost money to even ask to have it fixed, and then I'd be all out of grinders.

So then I'd have to just go home with food that somehow miraculously became less cooked!

[Lostbob117]

So you guys know, in the game industry, when something is delayed like this. It is usually canceled.

Actually when something is delayed it is more common that There are technical difficulties, more stuff being added, found more bugs, etc. If you think about it, this delay might be a good thing for the game itself.

[Sp-24]

That's the case with highly anticipated games. Strictly asian MMOs are like the exact opposite of that term.

[reptile7383]

Actually when something is delayed it is more common that There are technical difficulties, more stuff being added, found more bugs, etc. If you think about it, this delay might be a good thing for the game itself.


Theres always technical difficulties. Its part of Software development. :P

Delays happen when you fail to account for how long it'll take to deal with them.

[Lostbob117]

Theres always technical difficulties. Its part of Software development. :P

Delays happen when you fail to account for how long it'll take to deal with them.

So it's still the technical difficulties fault about it.

[Sp-24]

Or not.

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

Actually when something is delayed it is more common that There are technical difficulties, more stuff being added, found more bugs, etc. If you think about it, this delay might be a good thing for the game itself.

Actually you are wrong, When a company announces a game delay months in advance of the games release, there are technical difficulties.

When a company says nothing for months after the supposed release and say the game was "delayed" it is usually indefinitely delayed.

Please be a little more intelligent.

[UnLucky]

Hey, I like to rip on the international release as much as the next guy, but a single announcement about a single delay doesn't mean the project is canned.

Now, if whatever other tentative release date comes to pass and it is "delayed" again, that could be a warning sign. Or if we get nothing again until 2014. Yeah.

But as of right now, there is no solid reason to think PSO2 is not releasing outside of Japan. You can speculate all you want, but it is more likely getting a NA/EU release at some point than not at all.

[HandOfThornz]

Edward@Sega speaks and confirms delay:
http://blogs.sega.com/2012/07/09/phantasy-star-online-2-is-coming-west/#comments
Post #419
"Hey everyone. The statement in the article is correct and the game is delayed. I wish I had more exact details I could give you: it is a huge project and we want to do our best to bring it, in fullness and with proper support, to the West. Right now that’s all I have to add — I promise we’ll keep you updated when there is more. Thank you for all of your patience (and even the impatience is perfectly understandable), I’m sorry it’s been so long without news."

(I suppose anyone could, sign up and pretend to be Edward but i'll go with this is the official confirmation of the delay, for the moment)

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

Look I want the international release as much as the next guy, but when a company gives no word after the supposed release date, HAS BEEN DELAYED ALREADY, has a working English version(I am not talking about the fan translation ether), and just does not put in the effort to give a response. You should be a little more the worried. This is why Sega failed as a company with its consoles, and this is coming from a Sega fan that has covered the Sega Booth for E3 when other people would grown about it when I was a writer.

[kkow]

If they cared, they would have put another tentative release date along with a better reason. I have no doubt the localization is coming, but it's the when and in what state that truly worries me. I really feel for those of you waiting for localization. inb4ipban

[DLXZero]

Well I had been holding out hope for the english release. Bought a super spiffy laptop JUST for this game. And now nothing. well I picked up a vita and started playing the jp version for now. Hopefully for not too long. Need my english.

[Kion]

Well I had been holding out hope for the english release. Bought a super spiffy laptop JUST for this game. And now nothing. well I picked up a vita and started playing the jp version for now. Hopefully for not too long. Need my english.

What's stopping you from playing the pc version with the english patch?

[Zipzo]

Zipzo, You can't seriously expect to convince Gigawuts to not care about improving his character, in a game that is all about improving your character. That's the main goal of playing games like PSO2. You level up, learn new abilities and acquire stronger gear. If you want to ignore the "game" part of PSO2 and treat it like a fancy chat room, you can do that, but it's unreasonable to expect others to do the same.

Gigawuts is playing the game the way it was designed and he is totally right about how bullshit the grinding system is, and in general how much the game relies on RNG.

Zipzo, you may not care about fighting monsters or being good at the game, but most people do. The grinding system is bad, and complaining about it is good because complaints are what pushes Sega to fix things.

If PSO2 were food, Gigawuts would eat it, while Zipzo would wear it like a hat.

What a presumptuous, pathetically suck-up post.

How can you assume that I, myself, care not for improving my character? I care very much about min/maxing and I am always making an effort to optimize my game in every way possible, like many other players here.

The connections of logic you've made are hilarious and so frighteningly disingenuous it's scary. I'm trying to convince Giga to not upgrade his character? What? I want to ignore the game and treat it like a chat room?

I already stated specifically that I am not against the system being bettered or changing even, I'm simply stating the situation. Don't be purposefully stupid. Oh, and big surprise Gigawutts doesn't find holes in the most illogical post in the thread because it praises him. Big surprise.

[Inazuma]

What a presumptuous, pathetically suck-up post.

How can you assume that I, myself, care not for improving my character? I care very much about min/maxing and I am always making an effort to optimize my game in every way possible, like many other players here.

The connections of logic you've made are hilarious and so frighteningly disingenuous it's scary. I'm trying to convince Giga to not upgrade his character? What? I want to ignore the game and treat it like a chat room?

I already stated specifically that I am not against the system being bettered or changing even, I'm simply stating the situation. Don't be purposefully stupid. Oh, and big surprise Gigawutts doesn't find holes in the most illogical post in the thread because it praises him. Big surprise.

Earlier you said weapon grinding was optional and not required. So which is it then? Do you care about being good at the game or not?

Anyone who wants to be strong would have to grind their weapons to +10. It you really do care about maximizing your character in every way possible, that would include grinding.

[Zipzo]

Earlier you said weapon grinding was optional and not required. So which is it then? Do you care about being good at the game or not?

Anyone who wants to be strong would have to grind their weapons to +10. It you really do care about maximizing your character in every way possible, that would include grinding.

It isn't any less optional just because I choose to do it. I take advantage of the option because I like making my character stronger. I have my own 10* weapon at +10. That doesn't mean it isn't optional just because I choose to do it for my own reasons. How is that hard to understand?

[jerrykun]

I feel sorry for those that are not playing JP PSO2.
As a side note, I want to share an experience I had with a very delayed game: Diablo 3, *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* *COUGH* the company lost me and then I sold my account.
Really, you should start playing PSO2, it doesn't matter if it is a JP server, people from all the world are playing anyways, the nerfs and tweaks are present in all updates and you won't get to enjoy all the fun, events, and new content this fast in the western release, you'll get the stuff already nerfed, old content, and you won't get to play the whole game with the lifetime it should have (PSU comes to mind), they're gonna make you rush the content and you'll just play and grind like nuts for a couple years before they shut it down, it won't be that appealing anymore, unless they come up with a very very VERY good strategy to attract players from other games, god knows what game might be released by the time PSO2 Western is released, lets hope Sega releases it having this in mind.

[Inazuma]

It isn't any less optional just because I choose to do it. I take advantage of the option because I like making my character stronger. I have my own 10* weapon at +10. That doesn't mean it isn't optional just because I choose to do it for my own reasons. How is that hard to understand?

By that logic, everything is optional. I am hungry, so I have to eat. But eating is optional. What is your point again?

[Sp-24]

By that logic, everything is optional. I am hungry, so I have to eat. But eating is optional. What is your point again?
The point is that you need to be as egdy as possible on the internet, or nobody will pay attention to you.

How hard is it to understand? Are you really that dumb? Go kill yourself or something. please don't leave me alone

[Zipzo]

By that logic, everything is optional. I am hungry, so I have to eat. But eating is optional. What is your point again?

I don't see how you don't get this.

Yes, eating is in fact optional. You could choose to cease eating if you wanted to. That's your choice. Good for you? Uh, no. You'll probably die if you stop eating, you don't want to die so you will probably eat I'm guessing. Just because it's optional doesn't mean you won't or can't do it, it just means you have the choice not to.

I really don't see how this can be explained in any more ways.

[UnLucky]

It isn't any less optional just because I choose to do it. I take advantage of the option because I like making my character stronger. I have my own 10* weapon at +10. That doesn't mean it isn't optional just because I choose to do it for my own reasons. How is that hard to understand?

So your point is to say something unrelated to what anyone else said and start arguing that?

"Grinding is too hard. I want it to be easier."

-"It's optional."

"How does that make it any less hard?"

-"I'm not saying it's not hard. I also want it to be easier."

"Ok?"

Except I'm skipping over the whole "it's as optional as any other part of the game" because that has nothing to do with the original complaint at all. Did you want to discuss needs vs wants, or about the grinding system?

[Sp-24]

Let this be a reminder to everybody: if you have an opinion about anything, you better make sure that you are not on the internet.

[Zipzo]

So your point is to say something unrelated to what anyone else said and start arguing that?

"Grinding is too hard. I want it to be easier."

-"It's optional."

"How does that make it any less hard?"

-"I'm not saying it's not hard. I also want it to be easier."

"Ok?"

Except I'm skipping over the whole "it's as optional as any other part of the game" because that has nothing to do with the original complaint at all. Did you want to discuss needs vs wants, or about the grinding system?

I'm really not trying to change subjects. I think the point I had with my very first initial post was, and still is to this post...

Grinding is optional and not required, therefore it is illogical to be radically frustrated by grind failure to the point that you believe it ruins the entire game...because you don't need grinding to enjoy the game. You don't need grinding to do anything & everything the game has to offer you, so I can't honestly see what the complaint would be aside from being disappointed that your number when your spell connects is not 20-50 points higher than you think it should be. Me personally, I think grinding falls in to one of those things that if made easier just makes the whole game easier on the whole (which I point out in the other thread I just made, to be somewhat of an ironic action for this game).

I'm trying very hard to see where I went off that objective, but having re-read I'm pretty sure that's been my point in every single post.