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View Full Version : JP PSO2 April 10th update: New skills and 60 cap



CelestialBlade
Mar 26, 2013, 03:27 PM
http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-jp-details-for-april-2013-update/

Thus far revealed:

Fury Combo Up (HU Skill) フューリーコンボアップ
When performing a series of Just Attacks, the damage given will increase.

Killing Bonus (RA Skill) キリングボーナス
PP restores when defeating enemies nearby.

Perfect Keeper (GU Skill) パーフェクトキーパー
R-ATK increases when HP is 100%

Photon Flare After Burst (FO Skill) フォトンフレアアフターバースト
T-ATK increases for a certain amount of time after the end of the Photon Flare skill.

Rare Mastery Techer (TE Skill) *レアマスタリーテクター
T-ATK increases when a Techer equips a 10 star or higher weapon.
Techer should be the main class.

Thanks as always to Ricardo and Shougai for the info.

Z-0
Mar 26, 2013, 03:29 PM
So TE is still best with an Umbra Stick. Just even better now.

EvilMag
Mar 26, 2013, 03:31 PM
Dat GU skill.

Mikessc88
Mar 26, 2013, 03:31 PM
Those skills look bad ass, the GU and RA skills look great. No fighter skill?

When they add new skills, do they reset your tree or do you just have to deal with possibly having to reset to access new skills from an update?

Z-0
Mar 26, 2013, 03:32 PM
They don't reset your tree. They didn't for the 50 cap.

However, they have promised to start distributing All Skill Tree Reset passes when something happens that could cause someone to want to change their skill tree (such as new skills, or the upcoming Zonde nerf), so we might get one of those.

Xaeris
Mar 26, 2013, 03:32 PM
Rare Mastery Techer seems kind of lazy, honestly. The rest are cool though.

Zyrusticae
Mar 26, 2013, 03:33 PM
They've said they're going to release reset-all-trees tickets when they add new stuff to the trees.

Although whether or not that's per-account or per-character is still up in the air (obviously I'm hoping for the latter).

UnLucky
Mar 26, 2013, 03:34 PM
And, unsurprisingly, Photon Flare is still shit.

CelestialBlade
Mar 26, 2013, 03:43 PM
If Fury Combo Up is actually a decent boost and not some worthless S-ATK boost, melee is about to get a nice lil power jump when Fury Stance becomes %-based. The problem is stretching out points over the darned tree because it's getting so huge now >_<

I thought I remember a PP-related skill being planned for FI at some point. Perhaps that's yet to be revealed.

Blundy
Mar 26, 2013, 03:51 PM
techer will maintain the title of the most random of the skill trees.

Gardios
Mar 26, 2013, 03:56 PM
Techer skill is, unsurprisingly, terribly uninspired.

Coatl
Mar 26, 2013, 03:56 PM
So what I'm looking at right now is that every class got shafted except Ranger and Hunter. RA/HU all the way I guess?

Z-0
Mar 26, 2013, 03:58 PM
There's probably gonna be some new FI skill that just simply hasn't been revealed.

PP Slayer was the new skill Agrajag found in the client, wonder what it does... I was hoping it would restore PP as you killed stuff, but the RA skill does that, soooo.

I kind of imagine it increases your attack as your PP gets lower.

Ezodagrom
Mar 26, 2013, 03:58 PM
No fighter skill?
Basically this:

*The information provided is incomplete and we’ll add more details to the list once it becomes available.

UnLucky
Mar 26, 2013, 04:05 PM
So what I'm looking at right now is that every class got shafted except Ranger and Hunter. RA/HU all the way I guess?

And it has nothing to do with all the other skills mentioning static stat gains when meeting certain conditions.

Not at all.

Para
Mar 26, 2013, 04:20 PM
This update pretty much says: Sorry guys. Gotta wait until end of April for Dragon Temple/Sanctuary.

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 04:25 PM
There's probably gonna be some new FI skill that just simply hasn't been revealed.

PP Slayer was the new skill Agrajag found in the client, wonder what it does... I was hoping it would restore PP as you killed stuff, but the RA skill does that, soooo.

I kind of imagine it increases your attack as your PP gets lower.

^ This. I read the description for Killing Bonus before the name, I was seriously saying "Holy shit I was right, it won't be good in boss fights where it's needed most but it's better than nothing!"

Then I read the name and class.

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

And yeah, the only other option I thought of off the top of my head was bonus damage with low PP. Hooray, can't wait to have to completely vacate my PP to get bonus damage. I'm sure the scaling will be so that it's only really worth it if you have exactly 1-0 PP left, too.

Zorafim
Mar 26, 2013, 04:32 PM
Welp, that's 30 more levels I'm behind on. I'd like to see the numbers on these skills to see if they're any good. Seems like the photon flare one just boosts the duration of photon flare, though.

Cyron Tanryoku
Mar 26, 2013, 04:34 PM
Watch them put these skills out the way to the point where they fuck everything over

Dextro
Mar 26, 2013, 04:40 PM
This update pretty much says: Sorry guys. Gotta wait until end of April for Dragon Temple/Sanctuary.

It's cool, not like any of us mind having to go from Lv42-Lv60 in Ruins MPA.

[SPOILER-BOX]inb4 'hay but u'll b able 2 lvll in AQs nao!'[/SPOILER-BOX]

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 04:45 PM
Watch them put these skills out the way to the point where they fuck everything over

Yeah. I'm really curious about PP slayer. No matter what it'll do, fighter's biggest skill-based flaw is PP. It's HEAVILY reliant on PP.

If they put it down past the *line slayer skills... :disapprove:

I'm sure the ranger one will be right below ability up 3 (or is it 2? the one below WHA 2), and techer's will be...I'm guessing on the wind branch.

Unless the photon flare skill gives 1000+ TATK nobody will care where it is.

Zorafim
Mar 26, 2013, 04:50 PM
You know, if they change all the photon flare skills to a percentage increase, it might be worth picking up. I doubt it'll be as good as half cast time or -10 PP per cast, but it might make ice somewhat viable.

Z-0
Mar 26, 2013, 04:52 PM
Personally I disagree because its up-time is way too little.

Maybe if it was 50/50 or 75/25 (uptime/downtime) instead.

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 04:58 PM
Photon flare's REAL flaw is that it's HORRIBLE FOR ICE. Ice is primarily defense-oriented. Fire is damage-oriented -> gets DPS boost. Bolt is sustainability oriented -> gets PP reduction.

Ice is defense-oriented...gets a skill that increases offense & cuts hp.

????????????????????????????????

Make photon flare territory burst for ice techs, same time as TB and a boost to freeze behaviors (freeze is shatter resistant, give a damage boost to hits that do shatter freeze) etc. /o/

Dextro
Mar 26, 2013, 05:02 PM
You know, if they change all the photon flare skills to a percentage increase, it might be worth picking up.

+200% damage on each of the 2 skills? oh lawd :-D

UnLucky
Mar 26, 2013, 05:13 PM
+200% damage on each of the 2 skills? oh lawd :-D

Well, assuming 10% damage for 50 static (like Atk Up vs Advance), that's 40% damage for 30s every 2m... So 10% overall with reduced HP for 10 SP, so it's still not worth it unless PFAB is a single point skill that lasts at least 30s with the same bonus as PF itself, but without the HP penalty.

Zorafim
Mar 26, 2013, 05:16 PM
+200% damage on each of the 2 skills? oh lawd :-D

That's actually what I was thinking. Fire gets ~200% damage (assuming no PP regen), and thunder gets a bunch of uptime. You'd need a huge boost to make ice worthwhile. And since the time it's up is so low, it'd have to be huge to be worth using it (like PP convert).

Xaeris
Mar 26, 2013, 05:22 PM
Photon flare's REAL flaw is that it's HORRIBLE FOR ICE. Ice is primarily defense-oriented. Fire is damage-oriented -> gets DPS boost. Bolt is sustainability oriented -> gets PP reduction.

Ice is defense-oriented...gets a skill that increases offense & cuts hp.

????????????????????????????????

Make photon flare territory burst for ice techs, same time as TB and a boost to freeze behaviors (freeze is shatter resistant, give a damage boost to hits that do shatter freeze) etc. /o/

The thing is though, people don't respect defense in this game. Just about everyone affixes their gear for offensive stats and builds their tree around maximizing offense. Even a tree that has some excellent defensive skills like Hunter's Flash guards and Automate Halfline, usually gets built in favor of its comparatively less impressive offensive bonuses.

And really, why should they respect defense? Usually, the price you pay for being a glass cannon is being fragile, but between the fact that enemies straight up evaporate before they get to do much when you're playing glass cannon and the defensive maneuvers we get baseline, that drawback is greatly diminished. So, if you build a tree to grant defensive bonuses to a line of techs, players are going to just go, "well, that's nice," and go right on ignoring it like they do now.

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 05:26 PM
I agree. But, just like territory burst, increasing the AOE of ice techs is both a defense boost AND an offense boost. You hit more things -> you deal more total damage!

I like the idea of ice being AOE-oriented, usurping zondeel. Zondeel is good at AOE and is very very PP efficient, I don't really like the idea of it being so good at both. If gibarta and rabarta could overtake it I'd be pretty happy about it.

UnLucky
Mar 26, 2013, 05:29 PM
Man, if only "Photon Flare" or something in its place made all ice techs last twice as long on the field. More damage, more safety, and it follows logically with the other elements.

Fire: 2x casting in the same time
Bolt: 2x casting for the same cost
Ice: 2x effects off of one cast

But no, they went with "slightly higher damage a portion of the time with a penalty that gets worse as you level the skill" what the fuck?

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 05:31 PM
Longer lasting works too, and could double as giving deband extra duration if they felt like it.

But yeah they could do anything and it would be better.

Resanoca
Mar 26, 2013, 05:31 PM
My idea on PP Slayer was maybe... Well, once you go below 50/25%, your PP rate restores faster. I dunno. D:

If I overlooked someone saying that, then derp.

Emp
Mar 26, 2013, 05:31 PM
Great! More leveling just as I was about to get settled into VH.

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 05:33 PM
My idea on PP Slayer was maybe... Well, once you go below 50/25%, your PP rate restores faster. I dunno. D:

If I overlooked someone saying that, then derp.

I had a thought that if you had up to X% of a PA's activation cost left on your PP bar it would still work.

So let's say it's 50%. If you have 100 PP and you use over end, you'd go 100 -> 60 -> 20 -> you have exactly enough for another OE.

If it was 75% doing 3 consecutive OE's would require 110 PP, etc.

This would fit really nicely with the fury stance combo skill.

Coatl
Mar 26, 2013, 05:34 PM
It's like Sega had a brainfart and went, "oh dip I forgot techers were in PSO2 LOL aw crap dropped coffee on their skill tree better give them something anyway so they think we care." Seriously, what the hell? Could they have at least put more than 10 seconds into Techer's lvv60 skill?

Bellion
Mar 26, 2013, 05:40 PM
I'd be fine(10* Trading will be implemented, so it's going to be that bad..) with what Techter is going to get if they'd at least make Shifta and Deband worth using. You know, like making them last 5 minutes or something? Giving them a better range even without TB.

Photon Flare is a whole other mess...It's like they took Fury Stance and then smashed it to pieces. They need to make it last longer and give the Ice techs some special effects that'll be useful.
They should make Barta and Rabarta wider. They need to fix Sabarta and reduce the charge time. Gibarta seems fine the way it is.

UnLucky
Mar 26, 2013, 05:41 PM
It could have at least given proportional gains based on the rarity of your weapon, so a 5* gives half the bonus as a 10* or something.

But it's just going to be like +50 T-Atk when using a 10*, which isn't enough to offset wands' slower casting speed, and Umblla Stick is a 10* anyway.

I mean it doesn't even add fucking S-Atk! What is Sega doing?

Alisha
Mar 26, 2013, 05:42 PM
it almost sounds as if the techer skill will be techer main only. oh well its a boost to my resta and wand gear

RadiantLegend
Mar 26, 2013, 05:48 PM
Ah, something to do again

Dextro
Mar 26, 2013, 05:50 PM
Every other skill at least has something to do with the main class's role in mind, but Rare Mastery? for TE?
http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/designs/12077106,width=178,height=178/LOL-WUT-meme.png

Oh well, at the very least it's a completely free bunch of t-atk at the cost of 1sp (i hope...) for FO/TE.

Ezodagrom
Mar 26, 2013, 05:52 PM
It's like Sega had a brainfart and went, "oh dip I forgot techers were in PSO2 LOL aw crap dropped coffee on their skill tree better give them something anyway so they think we care." Seriously, what the hell? Could they have at least put more than 10 seconds into Techer's lvv60 skill?
As it says in bumped, the list is incomplete.
Back in February a list of new skills were found through datamining, there's another skill for Techer there, "TerritoryBurstAdvance".

Kondibon
Mar 26, 2013, 05:54 PM
As it says in bumped, the list is incomplete.
Back in February a list of new skills were found through datamining, there's another skill for Techer there, "TerritoryBurstAdvance".

I hope that increases the range more and doesn't just increase the uptime.

Manta Oyamada
Mar 26, 2013, 05:55 PM
nice ^^

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 05:56 PM
I hope that increases the range more and doesn't just increase the uptime.

Bahaha, nope, I bet the got the name wrong. I bet the +tatk for 10* equips IS territory burst advance.

Dextro
Mar 26, 2013, 05:58 PM
And in line with Sega's current thinking, it'll be just like:

Photon Flare > Photon Flare Advance > Photon Flare Afterburst
Territory Burst > Territory Burst Advance > Territory Burst...Afterburst...
Increases the area of support techniques for a set time after the skill runs out! +1sec per level! Imagine! with lv10 afterburst it'll be active all the time! all it takes is 25-30sp for something that should really just take 1!

Ezodagrom
Mar 26, 2013, 06:00 PM
Bahaha, nope, I bet the got the name wrong. I bet the +tatk for 10* equips IS territory burst advance.
I wonder if only techer will have the rare mastery though:

The following skills have been added to the skill lists: FuryStanceCombo (HU), KillingBonus (RA?), PhotonFlareAfterBurst (FO), PPSlayer (FI?), PerfectKeeper (GU?), TerritoryBurstAdvance (TE). Each class also has a "RareBoost" for each weapon they can use, and a Rare10(classname) and Rare11(classname).

UnLucky
Mar 26, 2013, 06:02 PM
Poor Fi/Hu needing 6 SP (or 60 lmao) to get the same bonus Force or Techer (regardless of subclass) get for 1 (or 10) from Rare Boost

Alnet
Mar 26, 2013, 06:21 PM
Jeez, a lot of these skills look really... decent, actually. Except FO and TE got bitten by the worthless (or "we can't think of anything good") bug. I mean, I don't know anyone who uses Photon Flare, and for good reason. Why do they insist on adding on to that skill, when it's clear that nobody likes it?

Edit: It just hit me that the GU one is probably garbage too. If it's anything like all these other damage stat-boosting skills, it's going to be a static stat boost, and it won't be worth getting. That's 3/6 already being disappointing... FI's is still a mystery, so it could end up being way better than all the other new skills.

And TE's skill looks like something that would be a high-level skill for all six classes, not one that should be exclusive to that one class. Surely that's got to be a typo or something. I'd have made a skill like "PP recovered during Wand Gear attacks is increased." That sounds handy. Well, still waiting on that PP Restorate 2, whenever you get around to it.

Blundy
Mar 26, 2013, 06:27 PM
will the new techer skill be the first 'main class only' skill? i wonder.

Gardios
Mar 26, 2013, 06:33 PM
^Which is awful because that completely goes against the subclass concept—then again, not like the current skill trees indicate a grasp of game design... Maybe they just want something to get more people to main Techer. :wacko:

They'll probably start pushing more mainclass-only skills from now on.

Shinamori
Mar 26, 2013, 06:34 PM
Will the skill reset give you your points back?

Ezodagrom
Mar 26, 2013, 06:35 PM
Will the skill reset give you your points back?
It wouldn't be a reset otherwise. ^^;

UnLucky
Mar 26, 2013, 06:46 PM
Uhm, Sega? I'm lv60 but have 0 SP, what do I do?

"Please purchase a new skill tree for 500 AC per class that has no skill points. Sorry for the inconvenience."

Gardios
Mar 26, 2013, 06:49 PM
...now that I think about it, I heard something about skill resets not actually working with your default skill trees. What's up with that, did I hear incorrectly or can I expect a "well, here's your skill resets... for extra skill trees you've purchased!" explanation from SEGA?

UnLucky
Mar 26, 2013, 06:52 PM
Yeah that's been brought up a lot. Skill resets as they are now only reset a single tree for a single class, and cannot be used on the currently 'equipped' tree, of which each class must have at least one 'equipped' at all times. So effectively, only additional trees can be reset (for more than it costs to get a new one).

They mention giving out an "all reset" which many of us are hoping really wipes all your trees for each class on each character of every account.

It could very well not do any or all of those things. It is Sega, after all.

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 06:54 PM
I like how sega's solution to wands having too little TATK compared to rods is...

...to give it more TATK.

Interestingly, this makes techer a better talis main. THAT might be really cool.

holmwood
Mar 26, 2013, 06:58 PM
I like how sega's solution to wands having too little TATK compared to rods is...

...to give it more TATK.

Interestingly, this makes techer a better talis main. THAT might be really cool.

HMM I never thought about it that way.
@_@

jooozek
Mar 26, 2013, 07:04 PM
...now that I think about it, I heard something about skill resets not actually working with your default skill trees. What's up with that, did I hear incorrectly or can I expect a "well, here's your skill resets... for extra skill trees you've purchased!" explanation from SEGA?

here is hope that its a different item doing it for all trees including the default tree

Alisha
Mar 26, 2013, 07:14 PM
imo ffxi did subclasses way better than this game but the same system wouldnt work here unless you add lvl requirements to skills.

RedRaz0r
Mar 26, 2013, 07:24 PM
Loving the Fighter love from this update

Gardios
Mar 26, 2013, 07:24 PM
imo ffxi did subclasses way better than this game but the same system wouldnt work here unless you add lvl requirements to skills.

The subclass system would be way better if the skills/skill trees weren't crap.

Arialle
Mar 26, 2013, 07:50 PM
we need ULTIMATE mode naooooo

Neith
Mar 26, 2013, 08:04 PM
Gunner: Because we didn't do enough damage already. :lol:

HU one could be interesting depending on how the boost works, and the Techer one is the laziest thing I've seen. Couldn't they have been given an ability to lengthen the duration of buffs or something instead of this?

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 08:09 PM
I'm actually more interested in what the HU change means for non-melee classes. I wonder how high the stack cap is? What's the bonus at level 1, then 10?

If we're REALLY lucky, it's as high as 30% per attack, multiplicative. Normal-normal-PA is something I'm already in the habit of doing. Even 10%, multiplying, would be good enough. Damn, with this they don't even need to fix fury stance's bonus at all (assuming fury stance combo is a reasonable to get skill).

HU really needed this, but we know what else was needed for this JA combo thing to retain its bonus as enemies move? A relocating move for every melee weapon that always works, shame grapple charge requires a grabbed enemy to do the ki- oh wait, that change makes more sense now :wacko:

I wish they'd give us a lunge skill though. That would rock. These PA's don't really cut it, but at least GC's change was a step in the right direction (what made it "hard to use" was terrain issues forcing enemies behind you when you land the kick, not that it required a grab).

kkow
Mar 26, 2013, 08:12 PM
Was expecting a new field/boss, orz. Also not a fan of passive skills so far down the skill tree :/

Yden
Mar 26, 2013, 08:34 PM
I wonder if killing bonus will also apply to breakable parts on bosses or will it just have absolutely no use in boss battles?

Crystal_Shard
Mar 26, 2013, 08:44 PM
Seems to me like killing bonus will work just as well if the whole party enters the boss teleporter for the extra mobs.

That said, I hope that there's more skills in store for Gunner, Force and Techter, especially more decent all round utility skills. Wil reserve judgement until we get more info on the rest of the skills.

Laxedrane
Mar 26, 2013, 09:04 PM
Hmm I thought the data miners found something that look like it was gonna boost territory burst:/ guess not this update.

Mekhana
Mar 26, 2013, 09:13 PM
I just hope the location of the skills on the tree make it worth getting them.

Ezodagrom
Mar 26, 2013, 09:15 PM
Hmm I thought the data miners found something that look like it was gonna boost territory burst:/ guess not this update.
Bumped says that the list is incomplete.
It's also possible that the rare mastery skill may not be just for Techer.

The datamining stuff that you're talking about (bolded what isn't mentioned in bumped):

The following skills have been added to the skill lists: FuryStanceCombo (HU), KillingBonus (RA?), PhotonFlareAfterBurst (FO), PPSlayer (FI?), PerfectKeeper (GU?), TerritoryBurstAdvance (TE). Each class also has a "RareBoost" for each weapon they can use, and a Rare10(classname) and Rare11(classname).

Tenlade
Mar 26, 2013, 09:16 PM
more damage, more damage, more pp for more damage, more damage, and more damage. Did i get all that right?

Zorafim
Mar 26, 2013, 09:17 PM
Man, if only "Photon Flare" or something in its place made all ice techs last twice as long on the field. More damage, more safety, and it follows logically with the other elements.

Fire: 2x casting in the same time
Bolt: 2x casting for the same cost
Ice: 2x effects off of one cast

But no, they went with "slightly higher damage a portion of the time with a penalty that gets worse as you level the skill" what the fuck?

I would like this with ice. If Fire was faster, and Bolt is longer, than Ice being stronger would be great.

Sizustar
Mar 26, 2013, 09:20 PM
Hmm I thought the data miners found something that look like it was gonna boost territory burst:/ guess not this update.

There's another 700mb patch coming, let's wait and see what they dig up from that one first.

Gen2000
Mar 26, 2013, 09:30 PM
Fury Combo Up (HU Skill) - Good, even more reason to focus on PP heavy glass cannon.

Perfect Keeper (GU Skill) - Great, as long as it's not in a troll location like under Showtime.

Photon Flare After Burst (FO Skill) - Well...at least they're trying. Still not sold on it yet.

Rare Mastery Techer (TE Skill) - Bwahahaha. The unrevealed TE Skill(s) will have to 100x as amazing to keep TE from not looking as pitiful out of the bunch.

Syklo
Mar 26, 2013, 10:36 PM
What if PP slayer went something like this:

After reaching below XX% HP, Unlimited PP.
Where lvl 1 is 5% HP, lvl 10 25% HP.

Gardios
Mar 26, 2013, 10:44 PM
That'd be broken as hell.

Zenobia
Mar 26, 2013, 10:49 PM
Fury Combo Up is gonna be the shit once Furystance becomes% based hell yeah!!

gigawuts
Mar 26, 2013, 10:53 PM
What if PP slayer went something like this:

After reaching below XX% HP, Unlimited PP.
Where lvl 1 is 5% HP, lvl 10 25% HP.

Ooooh, interesting.

That would be insanely broken and hilarious, so I of course want it for at least a week but don't expect to get it, but...

What about PA's just all around costing less based on your HP? I'd think deadline would be in the name if that was how it worked, but 50% cost at 50% or lower HP would be great. Absolutely zero synergy with automate halfline on HU though.

I had another broken as all hell idea, PA's could recover PP. Oh god that'd either be crazy or useless.

Unless... PP Slayer is the PA PP Revival that I keep bringing up. That would be nice to have, on either HU or FI.

Alisha
Mar 26, 2013, 10:55 PM
The subclass system would be way better if the skills/skill trees weren't crap.

even if they were better the subclass system is still terrible. how are you gonna balance classes when anyone can use any skill?

UnLucky
Mar 26, 2013, 11:01 PM
Yeah, if PP Slayer allows for PP regen during PAs and Technics, but not when charging, melee gets a much needed break, and Te/Fi becomes less of a joke.


even if they were better the subclass system is still terrible. how are you gonna balance classes when anyone can use any skill?
Because not every skill is useful for every class? You know, like how Ranger/Gunner/Force skills are largely useless for hybrids because they only affect a single damage type?

Syklo
Mar 26, 2013, 11:02 PM
Unless... PP Slayer is the PA PP Revival that I keep bringing up. That would be nice to have, on either HU or FI.

Well depends on what you meant by that.
If you mean in the same way that Charge PP Revival works for forces, in which PA's recover pp naturally during animation/charging, sounds nice.

But what if it it went more like this: Spend pp to perform a PA, then the hits from that particular PA (if they land) recover a certain amount of PP, proportional to the cost of the PA itself and that total potential pp (PPP, lol) varies by skill level?
E.g. Use DA > -30pp, 6 hits land out of 10 > 12pp recovered (out of a potential 20)