One weapon camo at a time. Really, SEGA?

[Darki]

Hey there!

This thread is somewhat a rant, but also to discuss about these new items that we got on last big update. I remember seeing people here complaining about the fact that weapon camos worked the way they work (as "clothes" that you gotta carry on your character), but today I discovered another flaw of this system after buying three of them (the cheap ones) just for the lolz (which didn't end that "lol" at all).

So. You can only equip one camo at a time. Moreover, you can't choose what weapon to camouflate, it changes the apperance of all the weapons of its category you'd be using.

What the actual fuck? Who came up with this retarded system? I don't know other people, but I was looking forward to the zodiac series to equip them all together on my weapons and have a matching set. Or use a couple of them on my class-free weapons, because not only this, but SEGA can't even release a set of regular-looking free class weapons, not, they all have to look like crappy mock weapons.

What surprises me the most is that I didn't see anybody talking about this before I found out by myself this thing. I can't really believe nobody cares about it, so my only guess is that since the only serious weapon camo there is the wand one, not much people got the other ones and tried them together.

What do you think about this? To be honest, in my case it has crushed all my expectations for this system. I didn't really care about having to carry more stuff in the inventory for cosmetic purposes, I even though it was a good idea since at least you didn't have to permanently change the apperance of your weapons for it, but this is seriously the worst idea I've ever seen in the game.

[Gardios]

Wait, seriously? I thought that you could choose a skin for each weapon on your palette...

You're not the only one caring about, but your guess is right. I don't like any of the weapon camos so far so I naturally didn't get one.

Bah, the whole implementation just seems like a mess. Which is too bad because weapon camo is an awesome concept that's been done right in many other games. :(

[CJ Johnny]

It has been 'Said' from the Beginning.

Almost like Clothing.....

So far, the game allow us to use 1 Character at a time.

Basic Math.

[EvilMag]

Sega has always taken a concept from other MMOs and just fucks it up, why are you surprised?

[redroses]

I also haven't tried the camo system yet, as the current camos haven't interested me. But hearing that one weapon camo applies itself to all weapons of the same category is just completely stupid. Why would I even want this ._. I thought the point of weapon camo was to use it on one weapon you didn't like the looks of, not on all weapons in that category, that just doesn't make any sense.

So now it's, two Wands for example, one you really enjoy the looks of and one you hate the looks of. Now to decide if they both should look the same and lose the look of the good looking one, or don't use a camo and stick with the ugly one. Stupid.

As if the weapon camo version SEGA added wasn't already stupid enough, they made it even worse. Only SEGA can manage such a thing.

[Kondibon]

Having it affect every weapon of the same type doesn't bother me if you can take it off. Who actually uses more than one weapon of the same category at the same time anyway?

If you can only have one cammo (as in only a wand cammo and none for any other weapons) then THAT'S bad. Otherwise the thing that really bothers me about this is how limited they're making it. The concept has definitely been done better in other games.

[UnLucky]

Well, you could have a rare you've +10'd and affixed, as well as another of the same weapon type with 50% element(s) because that's easier to achieve with more common variants.

Or you've got a weak weapon with a really cool skin that you'll swap out against weak mobs or something. Automatic skinning just makes it more annoying.

Although it is better than permanently losing the skin to apply it to a single item, disallowing multiple different skins is pretty dumb. Unless that restriction is only for similar weapon types.

It has been 'Said' from the Beginning.

Almost like Clothing.....

So far, the game allow us to use 1 Character at a time.

Basic Math.
Different characters can use different clothes. Different weapons cannot. Basic math.

[Sparzyle]

I expected something like Styles on DCUO where when you equip a weapon it bounds with your chara and gives you a style for the weapon type, well...not totally expected to be as easy as that but something similar like trading bound weapons for cammos or paying with excubes/pds or meseta to make a bounded rare weapon transform into a weapon cammo or something like that...

sega :c

[Shadowth117]

I personally would have been fine with a system where you have to sacrifice a weapon to get a camo of said weapon you can apply permanently to a another single weapon. But apparently that's a huge problem... *rolls eyes*

[redroses]

I also thought the system would work in the way that you can make any weapon into a skin and slap it on the weapon ,of the same weapon category as the skin, you desire.
I was hoping to be able to use things like the little wings weapons and some nacht weapons that way longer or at all :c

But now, I also have to wait until SEGA decides to release weapon camos I like, even though there are weapons I would love as skins already in game.

[Inazuma]

The weapon camo takes up an item slot too? Bah. I might just ignore them altogether. Sega really did an extremely bad job with the whole thing.

[Zyrusticae]

I personally would have been fine with a system where you have to sacrifice a weapon to get a camo of said weapon you can apply permanently to a another single weapon. But apparently that's a huge problem... *rolls eyes*
That's exactly what I was hoping for as well. Especially as it would be an excellent reason to finally use the 1-3* weapons as skins.

And with the current implementation as it is, it seems increasingly unlikely that we will ever get our wish...

[Terrence]

Balance ? NEIN ! Bosses ? NEIN ! Classes ? NEIN. Races ? NEIN. Skills ? NEIN ! Weapons ? NEIN ! ...
Holy sh*t, can't you just be happy with what we have ? Pitiful human beings just live to complain. -_-"

[Cagedtaytay]

Balance ? NEIN ! Bosses ? NEIN ! Classes ? NEIN. Races ? NEIN. Skills ? NEIN ! Weapons ? NEIN ! ...
Holy sh*t, can't you just be happy with what we have ? Pitiful human beings just live to complain. -_-"

Says while complaing about us.

[Zyrusticae]

While ordinarily I'd agree that there's way too much bitching and moaning on here, there are legitimate complaints, and this is one of them.

This "feature" has been a complete waste of developer resources.

[Darki]

Even if the system was implemented as "clothing" overriding all weapons of the same type (as someone said, is not like we'd be usually carrying different weapons of the same category, although that's something personal, I guess. My girlfriend for example usually carries some weapons of the same categories because she likes the looks), what really REALLY got me was the fact that you can't equip more than one camo at a time.

I don't understand it. Why couldn't they, at least add one slot per weapon, so you can equip one of each type in case you wanna reskin more than one weapon type? Is not like equiping two camos of the same time, that can be conflicting. Don't CASTs carry three "clothes" at a time too?

I would have preferred an individual camouflage setting where you take one weapon and reskin it directly, but what I described would be passable. What we got now, is plain stupid. I hope japanese players are raging hard and loud over it so SEGA changes it.


Balance ? NEIN ! Bosses ? NEIN ! Classes ? NEIN. Races ? NEIN. Skills ? NEIN ! Weapons ? NEIN ! ...
Holy sh*t, can't you just be happy with what we have ? Pitiful human beings just live to complain. -_-"

If you don't have anything useful to say then shut up. We're discussing a feature here, even though we're dissapointed with its implementation. The only one who came bitching it's you. Just shut the hell up and "be happy" as you said.

[Tenlade]

Having it affect every weapon of the same type doesn't bother me if you can take it off. Who actually uses more than one weapon of the same category at the same time anyway?

Techers. Wand gear is based on elements, so having 2 or 3 red wands with specific elements will give a huge damage boost, and skinning one of them would be a major help in remembering which one you have on.

any other class using 50 element red weapons for that matter, especially since red weapons are kinda dull looking and could use skins the most.

[MetalDude]

I personally would have been fine with a system where you have to sacrifice a weapon to get a camo of said weapon you can apply permanently to a another single weapon. But apparently that's a huge problem... *rolls eyes*

The problem is obvious when you find a stronger weapon. I don't see the reason to settle for dumb when we got WoW doing this system perfectly fine.

[BIG OLAF]

I'd also like to know why in the shit the newest scratch only had one skin...for fuckin' wands, of all things. Whatever you do, SEGA, don't release a whole set at once. That would make too much sense.

[Zipzo]

I'd also like to know why in the shit the newest scratch only had one skin...for fuckin' wands, of all things. Whatever you do, SEGA, don't release a whole set at once. That would make too much sense.

Have you seen the best 10 star wand? It looks like ass. >_>

Personally I think the system is fine. Could use some tweaking but them again so could every other man-made thing on the planet.

[jooozek]

Techers. Wand gear is based on elements, so having 2 or 3 red wands with specific elements will give a huge damage boost, and skinning one of them would be a major help in remembering which one you have on.

any other class using 50 element red weapons for that matter, especially since red weapons are kinda dull looking and could use skins the most.

too bad red weapons are so shit that you wont see too much difference between daamge on different elements because of the stupid dex penalty


Have you seen the best 10 star wand? It looks like ass. >_>

Personally I think the system is fine. Could use some tweaking but them again so could every other man-made thing on the planet.

too bad that the only camo looks like shit too

[Zipzo]

too bad red weapons are so shit that you wont see too much difference between daamge on different elements because of the stupid dex penalty



too bad that the only camo looks like shit too

Disagree. I think it looks quite badass actually. Differing tastes is such a beautiful thing is it not..?

[Chik'Tikka]

i just wanted to make mah gun diamond......
instead I'm stuck with gold while i have to unlock gold for all zee other gunz to get diamond on the one i want......

oh, wait, what game we talking about?
+^_^+

[UnLucky]

too bad red weapons are so shit that you wont see too much difference between daamge on different elements because of the stupid dex penalty
Yes you would, targeting the correct weakness is easy enough to do with a red weapon since they're worth beans, and it increases your minimum damage. Not sure if the wand gear explosion compares your Dex, since it already ignores enemy defense, but it's still more damage overall.


Have you seen the best 10 star wand? It looks like ass. >_>
But if they let you skin any wand to look like a Magical Wand, nobody would buy any other weapon skin!

[jooozek]

Yes you would, targeting the correct weakness is easy enough to do with a red weapon since they're worth beans, and it increases your minimum damage. Not sure if the wand gear explosion compares your Dex, since it already ignores enemy defense, but it's still more damage overall.


if they weren't affected by dex, each explosion would deal the same amount of damage on the same hits of the combos which from what i remember isnt the case

[Drifting Fable]

I can hardly believe what I'm hearing....

Just when I thought the weapon cammo system couldn't get worse....somehow it did....

;A;

[Zipzo]

Yes you would, targeting the correct weakness is easy enough to do with a red weapon since they're worth beans, and it increases your minimum damage. Not sure if the wand gear explosion compares your Dex, since it already ignores enemy defense, but it's still more damage overall.


But if they let you skin any wand to look like a Magical Wand, nobody would buy any other weapon skin!

Ugh...not a huge fan of magical wand myself. Not really in to Platinum Trinity cosplay.

[Darki]

I can hardly believe what I'm hearing....

Just when I thought the weapon cammo system couldn't get worse....somehow it did....

;A;

At least (I suppose) you didn't waste your money on them like I did, to discover firsthand this thing. ;_;

Now seriously. One of the things that bothers me the most in this game is having a mismatched set of weapons. Call it OCD, it's probably true, but I'd rather carry crap weapons of the same set, than weapns that have no relation between them, it just feels wrong. Since I won't be able to reskin my weapons to matching set this system has lost all the appeal it had to me, to be honest. =/

[Enforcer MKV]

At least (I suppose) you didn't waste your money on them like I did, to discover firsthand this thing. ;_;

Now seriously. One of the things that bothers me the most in this game is having a mismatched set of weapons. Call it OCD, it's probably true, but I'd rather carry crap weapons of the same set, than weapns that have no relation between them, it just feels wrong. Since I won't be able to reskin my weapons to matching set this system has lost all the appeal it had to me, to be honest. =/

Who knows. Peeps might complain enough and they'll overhaul it and make it less retarded. I can see that happening.

[EvilMag]

Who knows. Peeps might complain enough and they'll overhaul it and make it less retarded. I can see that happening.

They'll finally do it but only premium users can skin their weapon to anything they want.

[Rien]

I can hardly believe what I'm hearing....

Just when I thought the weapon cammo system couldn't get worse....somehow it did....

;A;

The work of SEGA. The entire SEGA is just Murphy's law.

[Enforcer MKV]

They'll finally do it but only premium users can skin their weapon to anything they want.

Considering just how bad the current system is? That'd be an improvement. I don't want that to happen, and it'd be a sh***y move. But still an improvement.

[Drifting Fable]

They'll finally do it but only premium users can skin their weapon to anything they want.

At this point, I'd be willing to suffer even that just to use sacred dusters till the end of time or something... ^^;

[Zipzo]

They'll finally do it but only premium users can skin their weapon to anything they want.

How would this be un-intelligent? It would probably make a lot of players go premium...which is what benefits not only SEGA but the actual player. Everyone constantly aches about the "worth" of going premium yet if they give it something of worth they ache that they can't access it?

Premium is a nice function, if you really like the game it shouldn't be a tough decision and I'm in favor of SEGA making that decision less difficult for people who are on the fence because I enjoy the game and I don't mind supporting SEGA for it.

This is a F2P game. The game meets that criteria long before any of the other measurements many of you hate on SEGA for putting behind premium. If you never want to spend a dime on the game how can you possibly bother complaining? You're getting free entertainment.

I'm wearing my heat suit PSOW, so go ahead and throw a QQ firestorm at me for having an opinion.

[Tenlade]

They'll finally do it but only premium users can skin their weapon to anything they want.

It would actually give people a reason to actually use premium outside just buying a rare.

[Darki]

Yes, it sounds like a feature for premiums in other games. I wouldn't really mind that as long as they fix it.

If you ask me, the best way to implement this would be a NPC counter, for example. You need a weapon that you wanna register as "camo", and maybe a ticket that could be AC only if they wanna get their money out of it. So you take the weapon and the ticket to the NPC, and it "registers" as a camo, and then you got a list of available camos that you can use.

Then, the NPC would have another option where you simply apply the camos to each weapon individually. It doesn't use any item except the ticket, and you can revert your weapon to its original form whenever you want on this NPC. It could also be a menu option on all weapons but I suppose this might cause some loading issues if you have a very big list of camos already.

Of course this is expecting too much, and I don't think they'd entirely remake a feature that they have already implemented, to be entirely different. But at least, they should add "camo slots" for each weapon type so you're not restricted to a single type at a time. That shouldn't require that much adjusting, concept-wise.

[Zipzo]

Yes, it sounds like a feature for premiums in other games. I wouldn't really mind that as long as they fix it.

If you ask me, the best way to implement this would be a NPC counter, for example. You need a weapon that you wanna register as "camo", and maybe a ticket that could be AC only if they wanna get their money out of it. So you take the weapon and the ticket to the NPC, and it "registers" as a camo, and then you got a list of available camos that you can use.

Then, the NPC would have another option where you simply apply the camos to each weapon individually. It doesn't use any item except the ticket, and you can revert your weapon to its original form whenever you want on this NPC. It could also be a menu option on all weapons but I suppose this might cause some loading issues if you have a very big list of camos already.

Of course this is expecting too much, and I don't think they'd entirely remake a feature that they have already implemented, to be entirely different. But at least, they should add "camo slots" for each weapon type so you're not restricted to a single type at a time. That shouldn't require that much adjusting, concept-wise.
Well maybe what you're trying to achieve here is not their intended goal.

Maybe their objective is not to allow you complete and absolute reign over the look of your weapon, just give you alternatives. The amount of camo items can only increase from here on out so I'm sure a few months down the line there will be a whole bunch of them to choose from.

Try not to confuse what you want with what SEGA wants before criticizing the route they took, because there's an inherent importance in knowing such things before you do so.

[Darki]

I don't need to agree with what SEGA wants, so I'm free to criticize whatever the fuck I want if I don't agree with "the route they took". It also doesn't mean that their objective is a good idea.

What else could be the objective of a weapon reskin option other than... reskinning weapons? I don't see any problem in being interested on reskinning more than one weapon at a time, in fact I'm pretty sure everybody expected this because it's what happens in the vast majority (if not all -except PSO2 now) of games that feature a similar system. What is the difference between "complete and absolute reign over the looks", and "just alternatives"? Where do you draw the line? I don't see why am I expecting too much wanting to at least be able to equip one camo per weapon type so I'm not restricted to a single "just alternative".

Also, the fact that we're getting more camos over time has nothing positive to do with this issue since it will mean that you will have more camos that you won't be able to use unless you discard whichever one you were using before.

I don't really understand what's your problem with people expecting SEGA to implement a feature the best possible way instead of the half-assed way it is now. If it works for you, then holy freaking halellujah. You could still restrict yourself to one camo at a time if you really like the way it works now, if they ever decide to update it. If you're going to come here just to mess with people who don't like the current camo system, then you'd better stop posting here and let us people who want to talk about it discuss in peace.

[Inazuma]

I don't need to agree with what SEGA wants, so I'm free to criticize whatever the fuck I want if I don't agree with "the route they took". It also doesn't mean that their objective is a good idea.

What else could be the objective of a weapon reskin option other than... reskinning weapons? I don't see any problem in being interested on reskinning more than one weapon at a time, in fact I'm pretty sure everybody expected this because it's what happens in the vast majority (if not all -except PSO2 now) of games that feature a similar system. What is the difference between "complete and absolute reign over the looks", and "just alternatives"? Where do you draw the line? I don't see why am I expecting too much wanting to at least be able to equip one camo per weapon type so I'm not restricted to a single "just alternative".

Also, the fact that we're getting more camos over time has nothing positive to do with this issue since it will mean that you will have more camos that you won't be able to use unless you discard whichever one you were using before.

I don't really understand what's your problem with people expecting SEGA to implement a feature the best possible way instead of the half-assed way it is now. If it works for you, then holy freaking halellujah. You could still restrict yourself to one camo at a time if you really like the way it works now, if they ever decide to update it. If you're going to come here just to mess with people who don't like the current camo system, then you'd better stop posting here and let us people who want to talk about it discuss in peace.

Damn straight, Darki. Don't mind Zipzo. He likes to troll these forums but he is actually a decent person if you talk to him in-game.

[Darki]

Plz don't flame in my thread... I don't want a shitstorm between Zipzo and you because you called him troll. <_<

[Cagedtaytay]

Plz don't flame in my thread... I don't want a shitstorm between Zipzo and you because you called him troll. <_<

There will always be a shitstorm.

[Zipzo]

I don't need to agree with what SEGA wants, so I'm free to criticize whatever the fuck I want if I don't agree with "the route they took". It also doesn't mean that their objective is a good idea.

What else could be the objective of a weapon reskin option other than... reskinning weapons? I don't see any problem in being interested on reskinning more than one weapon at a time, in fact I'm pretty sure everybody expected this because it's what happens in the vast majority (if not all -except PSO2 now) of games that feature a similar system. What is the difference between "complete and absolute reign over the looks", and "just alternatives"? Where do you draw the line? I don't see why am I expecting too much wanting to at least be able to equip one camo per weapon type so I'm not restricted to a single "just alternative".

Also, the fact that we're getting more camos over time has nothing positive to do with this issue since it will mean that you will have more camos that you won't be able to use unless you discard whichever one you were using before.

I don't really understand what's your problem with people expecting SEGA to implement a feature the best possible way instead of the half-assed way it is now. If it works for you, then holy freaking halellujah. You could still restrict yourself to one camo at a time if you really like the way it works now, if they ever decide to update it. If you're going to come here just to mess with people who don't like the current camo system, then you'd better stop posting here and let us people who want to talk about it discuss in peace.

Do you construct every thread you make under the notion that every single person posting in it is going to agree whole-heartedly with you? You can't possibly expect that 100% of the population feels the same way as you do, and therefore commence an entire thread of hugs and cookies all around over your idea. Someone is going to think differently, and one of those people is going to have weight in his lower side to post it even in a thread full of opposers (it's really not that difficult to do over the internet). This is the reason for discussion. This isn't an argument, don't confuse it, I'm simply injecting my opinion in to the mix as food for thought, and you responded aggressively as if I'm the bad guy.

I explained my thoughts pretty clearly, but I'll go ahead and try again since you seem to be confused based on your first block (of text).

You are assuming SEGA has made a mistake with their implementation in the form of negligence to the flexibility of camo. You believe the most optimal way to implement it would be to have it akin to transmogging from World of Warcraft or remodeling from TERA. Maybe that wasn't the idea for them. You ask what the point of adding such a system is if not for reskinning weapons...? You're correct in your rhetorical...there isn't much of a point, but that's a different issue because the camo system does just that. It just doesn't do it as flexibly as you would like it to.

I'm not tootin' SEGA's horn here, I don't think that everything they do is perfect, but I like to try and put myself in their shoes first before going all "lolSEGA" on their decisions, because unlike many others I believe the team is run by educated adults who at the very least have some basic reasoning as to why they did something the way they did. I'm just waiting for someone to pull the murderer analogy out here...

It is possible that they did not intent for the system to be that flexible, while still wanting a system in place for people to reskin their weapons to something other than how their current weapon looks. There's logical reasoning as to why it was implemented the way it was.

You're also right, you can criticize SEGA for whatever the "fuck" you want. You can also criticize the sky being blue, oatmeal being sloppy & dirt being dirty...doesn't make you look any less silly.

[HIT0SHI]

I personally would have prefered the weapon camos to be used as mag cells, but for weapons (obviously). However as Darki said, it would have been nice to have a "slot" so you could go back to the weapon's original form. Sence I use only use 1 type of weapon on my pallet, I don't mind that it makes every weapon of that category be the shape of the camo but im pretty sure it will become annoying when I get more rares which would look awesome.

[Darki]

Do you construct every thread you make under the notion that every single person posting in it is going to agree whole-heartedly with you? You can't possibly expect that 100% of the population feels the same way as you do, and therefore commence an entire thread of hugs and cookies all around over your idea. Someone is going to think differently, and one of those people is going to have weight in his lower side to post it even in a thread full of opposers (it's really not that difficult to do over the internet). This is the reason for discussion. This isn't an argument, don't confuse it, I'm simply injecting my opinion in to the mix as food for thought, and you responded aggressively as if I'm the bad guy.

You seem to misunderstand. I couldn't care less about you posting your opinion about the matter since that's what this thread (and forum) is about. The notion I make threads under, is that people is not going to fuck the discussion up by making things up about what other people say or assume, just to mislead the thread.


I explained my thoughts pretty clearly, but I'll go ahead and try again since you seem to be confused based on your first block (of text).

You are assuming SEGA has made a mistake with their implementation in the form of negligence to the flexibility of camo. You believe the most optimal way to implement it would be to have it akin to transmogging from World of Warcraft or remodeling from TERA. Maybe that wasn't the idea for them. You ask what the point of adding such a system is if not for reskinning weapons...? You're correct in your rhetorical...there isn't much of a point, but that's a different issue because the camo system does just that. It just doesn't do it as flexibly as you would like it to.

I'm not tootin' SEGA's horn here, I don't think that everything they do is perfect, but I like to try and put myself in their shoes first before going all "lolSEGA" on their decisions, because unlike many others I believe the team is run by educated adults who at the very least have some basic reasoning as to why they did something the way they did. I'm just waiting for someone to pull the murderer analogy out here...

It is possible that they did not intent for the system to be that flexible, while still wanting a system in place for people to reskin their weapons to something other than how their current weapon looks. There's logical reasoning as to why it was implemented the way it was.

And the problem here is that you're assuming that I am the one making assumptions. I never mentioned in any of my posts that SEGA "made a mistake" or weren't aware in some form of the bad design in this feature. I never made said assumption, I'm just saying that the camo system sucks and should be improved. And this opinion would be the same, no matter if they wanted it that way, it was a mistake or for some particular reason it was technically impossible for them to do it better. It still sucks. If it doesn't suck for you, then, as I said in my previous post, goddamn fucking yay for you. Now, stop assuming that other people make wrong assumptions.

I might have forgotten about making such statement, of course. So I'd ask you to kindly point me to any post where I made such assumption, or simply shut the fuck up and stop making stuff up just for the sake of trolling.


You're also right, you can criticize SEGA for whatever the "fuck" you want. You can also criticize the sky being blue, oatmeal being sloppy & dirt being dirty...doesn't make you look any less silly.

Good thing that I'm not criticizing something like that, but a feature of a manmade game, aimed to satisfy their player base for profit, and that is not bound by any sort of natural law that would make completely imposible to improve or redesign this particular feature. Specially if such action might inrease said profits.

Because making such comparision doesn't really make you look any less silly than me, to be honest. And throwing in the random insult helps your cause even less, unless your cause is to look like a retarded impolite forum troll, of course, in which case you're doing it very well.

I mean, you're actually insulting me for having a negative oppinion of something SEGA has added to their game, and you're actually comparing it to having a negative oppinion on the sky being blue. What the actual fuck? Did you even think well that sentence before typing it? I can't just assume you're THAT retarded. And you want me to respect your oppinion, lol. Start doing it yourself, dude.

[gigawuts]

solution to problem: add extra slot in front of or behind the PA section of the weapon palette and let us select items at will, for each palette slot

what will happen: "we listened to player feedback requesting weapon camo in weapon slots and converted all weapon camo to /nacht weapons"

[Darki]

^ They don't need to make anything that complex (even if it's not that complex at all), the camo system would exponentially improve if they simply allowed you to equip one goddamn camo per weapon type. Although of course I'd rather be able to reskin each weapon separatedly, but that might be asking too much since is not what "SEGA aimed for", and I might be making "the wrong assumptions", of course.

[Zipzo]

You seem to misunderstand. I couldn't care less about you posting your opinion about the matter since that's what this thread (and forum) is about. The notion I make threads under, is that people is not going to fuck the discussion up by making things up about what other people say or assume, just to mislead the thread.



And the problem here is that you're assuming that I am the one making assumptions. I never mentioned in any of my posts that SEGA "made a mistake" or weren't aware in some form of the bad design in this feature. I never made said assumption, I'm just saying that the camo system sucks and should be improved. And this opinion would be the same, no matter if they wanted it that way, it was a mistake or for some particular reason it was technically impossible for them to do it better. It still sucks. If it doesn't suck for you, then, as I said in my previous post, goddamn fucking yay for you. Now, stop assuming that other people make wrong assumptions.

I might have forgotten about making such statement, of course. So I'd ask you to kindly point me to any post where I made such assumption, or simply shut the fuck up and stop making stuff up just for the sake of trolling.



Good thing that I'm not criticizing something like that, but a feature of a manmade game, aimed to satisfy their player base for profit, and that is not bound by any sort of natural law that would make completely imposible to improve or redesign this particular feature. Specially if such action might inrease said profits.

Because making such comparision doesn't really make you look any less silly than me, to be honest. And throwing in the random insult helps your cause even less, unless your cause is to look like a retarded impolite forum troll, of course, in which case you're doing it very well.

I mean, you're actually insulting me for having a negative oppinion of something SEGA has added to their game. What the actual fuck? And you want me to respect your oppinion? Start doing it yourself, dude.

First of all...Xanax is required based on bolded parts. I haven't insulted you...at all. Not once. Though I'm open to being quoted and or taken out of context if you'd rather do that. Despite what you do, you need to relax. You're on the internet. Your anger and frustration is misplaced.


What the actual fuck? Who came up with this retarded system?

I'm going to take a running gamble here that this statement (in your OP, btw) has a general implication that you believe the system that was finally implemented is not what you think it should have been. Therefore it's likely you feel as though the system needs to be improved...and that's sort of what I'm curbing. If the ultimate goal for SEGA is not what you think it should be, then they don't need to modify the system to your (and others who feel the same way as you do) benefit. Maybe they achieved perfection to their goal with its initial implementation as is? I can't really say that for sure, but with plenty of examples on the market of how to do weapon re-skinning in a sense of what you might refer to as the "right" way, don't you think that if that was their objective...they would have done it? Blah, blah, commence SEGA bashing on how they are oblivious to the rest of the planets MMO's and so on...doesn't really get you anywhere.

In the game where the only visual portion of your character that counts for anything power-wise is your weapon, it could be said that they intended camo to be used pretty infrequently. Many games have run by this line of thinking when it comes to weapon/armor re-skinning (IE certain sets of armor or special types of weapons cannot be reskinned, simply just "cuz"). Can't say for sure...if they decide to modify the system to your liking that could be great for you...but at the end of the day my opinion is that the system is fine and achieves the simple desire to reskin your weapon to something festive and seasonal (given the wand camo)...maybe not necessarily to give you ultimate freedom on which weapon skin you want to use.

There's no reason to act like I'm derailing your thread, I'm pretty specifically discussing the system you have an issue with given the OP.

[UnLucky]

Not much of a discussion when both sides are trying to completely invalidate the other's position

Well that's how most formal debates go with mudslinging and personal attacks, and it's certainly fun to watch, but not much actually gets resolved

[gigawuts]

Not much of a discussion when both sides are trying to completely invalidate the other's position

Well that's how most formal debates go with mudslinging and personal attacks, and it's certainly fun to watch, but not much actually gets resolved

politics/debate/arguing/etc. 101

make sure you never ever talk about the topic, that way you can never actually be proven wrong - you don't need to prove yourself right, you just need to draw out the discussion as long as possible so at the end of it you have plausible deniability about not being proven wrong.

[Cagedtaytay]

politics/debate/arguing/etc. 101

make sure you never ever talk about the topic, that way you can never actually be proven wrong - you don't need to prove yourself right, you just need to draw out the discussion as long as possible so at the end of it you have plausible deniability about not being proven wrong.

You get +1 awesomeness.

[Darki]

First of all...Xanax is required based on bolded parts. I haven't insulted you...at all. Not once. Though I'm open to being quoted and or taken out of context if you'd rather do that. Despite what you do, you need to relax. You're on the internet. Your anger and frustration is misplaced.

Although not a strong one, "silly" would go into the insult category even for a 5 years old kid. Maybe you should try not letting those slip even if you don't consider them that offensive, because you might annoy somebody, not with the word itself but with your attitude.

Also, I'm sorry, but that comparision was one of the most retarded statements I've read in a while. I would consider it an insult to my intelligence that someone assumed I was serious with it.

On the other issue, I don't agree with you entirely. Using your same way of reasoning, then we shouldn't criticize pretty much anything of any commercial product, and just "suck it and shut up" regarding any matter related to this game. That could be applied to a product that isn't supposed to be supported by a group of customers. Let me put you an example: I'm an artist. I work by commisions. I can't just draw whatever the fuck I want when someone pays me for it, and if they don't like it, tell them to shut up and deal with it. Well, actually I can but that doesn't help my cause. I do commissions actually to get customers and money from them. While any customer that contacts me has to accept that I have a defined style and way of working and if they don't like it to begin with why would they choose me, the fact is that I should also listen to my customers' suggestions since I'm making something for them. There has to be a middle term, or this business doesn't work as good as it could.

What is "perfection" in this issue then? Whatever SEGA dictates, regardless of how much the player base might be disgusted about it? Shouldn't they try to satisfy their players, too? They're trying to make us happy so we throw our money to them, afterall, being a F2P game. I'm not trying to say here that my point of view is the best one and only valid, and you seem to be pretty quick to assume that of what everything people say here. I don't need to start every sentence with an "it's just my opinion, but..." for anybody to acknowledge that, as an opinion, it just applies to me. It seems that you use that "trope" constantly to start arguments about how "that opinion can't be applied to everybody", when at least in my case, it's something that I consider implicit on that sort of statements.

So no, I'm sorry. Even if they intended for it to be that way and they consider it already "perfect" (a foolish consideration, to be honest) I don't need to agree, and I can still think that it could be improved. And since I can only speak for myself, I can only suggest or discuse improvements based on what I consider it would be better for it.

As I said before, I have no problems discussing with you this issue, you from the side of "it works fine" and me from the "it doesn't". My problem starts when you try to dismiss my opinion based on assumptions of your own making, and when you use retardedly grandiloquent comparisions to give the idea that my way of reasoning is "silly". Try to discuss more about the issue, and not to try to ridiculize other people's opinions based on wrong assumptions you make about them. Because 1) it might not be a too honest way of discussing and 2) it might backfire badly (as if did in your last comparision) and make yourself look like a fool.

[Darki]

politics/debate/arguing/etc. 101

make sure you never ever talk about the topic, that way you can never actually be proven wrong - you don't need to prove yourself right, you just need to draw out the discussion as long as possible so at the end of it you have plausible deniability about not being proven wrong.

Genius. Couldn't have described it better. I must write this down somewhere that I can read it often. xD

[BIG OLAF]

politics/debate/arguing/etc. 101

make sure you never ever talk about the topic, that way you can never actually be proven wrong - you don't need to prove yourself right, you just need to draw out the discussion as long as possible so at the end of it you have plausible deniability about not being proven wrong.

That's what Zipper always does, and yet people keep feeding into it. He must relish that fact. Notice when you deprive him of 'debating' long enough, he disappears for a while? We should get into the habit of making that happen more frequently.

[TaigaUC]

People often seem to have trouble distinguishing opinion from fact. When someone presents an opposing perspective, it is immediately perceived as a personal attack. They don't care if the person is stating the truth or not. They don't want to revise their feelings or understanding, they only want to reinforce them and feel good about themselves.

There are some things that are simply just fact. Anyone can argue about them, but it won't change the facts, only obscure them.

[Inazuma]

People often seem to have trouble distinguishing opinion from fact. When someone presents an opposing perspective, it is immediately perceived as a personal attack. They don't care if the person is stating the truth or not. They don't want to revise their feelings or understanding, they only want to reinforce them and feel good about themselves.

There are some things that are simply just fact. Anyone can argue about them, but it won't change the facts, only obscure them.

Absolutely. It blows my mind how many people seriously think they can change facts by having an opinion or a belief. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

[Zipzo]

People often seem to have trouble distinguishing opinion from fact. When someone presents an opposing perspective, it is immediately perceived as a personal attack. They don't care if the person is stating the truth or not. They don't want to revise their feelings or understanding, they only want to reinforce them and feel good about themselves.

There are some things that are simply just fact. Anyone can argue about them, but it won't change the facts, only obscure them.

Bingo. I'm very much inclined to agree with this statement on all fronts.

@everyone else

And yeah we can choose to pick apart all the idioms and dududums of debate and try to characterize everything being said so we can all look intelligent, but it really doesn't accomplish anything. You're having about as little of an effect on the conversation as the person who is faulty of resorting to said things, and in a swirl of irony, are doing exactly what Gigawutts spoke of.

@Darki

You're misinterpreting here. I am not trying to lead you to believe that you are not allowed to have an opinion. Nor am I trying to convince you that you don't have a right to offer suggestion or condone improvement...you can do that all day. That happens all day here on PSOW concerning a multitude of other things not camo-related.

My primary notion was to simply let you know that there are people that exist who not only disagree with your "rant" (you called it that yourself), but may even have thought out feelings as to why (that would be me), and I was simply laying them out for you to read so you can see another perspective. It is my belief, an opinion that the system could stay the way it is and have no reasonably large effect on the player base in terms of retention, nor would it have a size-able effect on bringing in new players. That being said it seems proper to think that SEGA isn't really concerned with making "improvements" to a system that they may not even believe is flawed in the way you think it is.

I don't remember coming in here, attacking you, asking you to kill yourself or go drink some brain juice for how retarded everything you're saying is (which I don't believe it is!).

I only post if I feel something or have an opinion that I don't think has been given consideration in a topic yet, if you want to prevent me from posting (@BigOlaf) you might as well avoid having an opinion on anything, because we sure as heck won't agree on it all.

To reiterate...I never said you have no right to have your own opinion. I simply said that you can't really imply that what they ended up implementing is "flawed"...since that in itself is your opinion. Opinions, assholes, etc etc. I'm quite aware that my opinion was going to have a natural "rise" effect on you, given how most people will respond to disagreement when they feel that there couldn't possibly be any (what Taiga said in essence)...so I'm letting all your personal attacks slide, but was that supposed to stop me from sharing? It wasn't going to. If anything you're confusing me by asserting that I'm saying a whole bunch of things that I'm really not.

[Darki]

My point is that the concept of a feature being "flawed" in a product aimed to a community of customers doesn't really depend on the consideration of the one who created the product, alone. It doesn't matter that you created what you consider your opera prima in the shape of a videogame, if you're trying to sell it and your customers don't think it's that good, then they're partly right.

The fact is that for me, and for a great number of players, the way the camouflage system was designed is flawed. Whether something is "flawed" or not is just another subjective consideration, It's far from objective, so you can't really deem as "fact" that the system is not flawed because SEGA thought it that way. If anything, it's flawed already when it doesn't appeal to the customers who are supposed to enjoy it. The fact that SEGA doesn't consider it flawed, is also another opinion on their part. If SEGA were to ignore the fact that a portion of its customer base consider a eature as poorly designed, even though they think it's good, they wouldn't be doing their job wrong. You don't need to consider something as "flawed" to be able to consider room for improvement or listen to other people's complaints and suggestions.

So no, I'm not wrong by considering the camouflatge system flawed. I'm perfectly fine with you not sharing this opinion, though, and we could have an interesting chat about why you consider the current system good enough and I don't, instead of trying to establish the meaning of the word "flawed" and its connotations, which is what you seem to have a problem with.

[Zenobia]

Here we go again so who's winning?

[UnLucky]

My point is that the concept of a feature being "flawed" in a product aimed to a community of customers doesn't really depend on the consideration of the one who created the product, alone. It doesn't matter that you created what you consider your opera prima in the shape of a videogame, if you're trying to sell it and your customers don't think it's that good, then they're partly right.

Well, who says the customers as a whole don't think it's good?

Sega designed it for a certain purpose, building it in the way they expect it to be used. If this matches what a lot of people do use it for, then it's not flawed.

You even open with "why has no one told me about this gross limitation before?" Well, maybe they never ran into it or thought of it as a problem? Maybe they did and either said "oh well, I can live" or gave their feedback to Sega.

You say it's "bad" for "everyone" and he is saying it's "not bad" for "everyone" but you're treating it as if he's saying there's "no fault" in it for "anyone." Kind of different.

[Alisha]

sweet delicous tears. and the best part is that the OP is wrong. more than one camo was released they just werent all from AC scratch.

[Darki]

Well, who says the customers as a whole don't think it's good?

Notice the "if" there in the middle of the quote? It's supposed to form a conditional sentence, meaning that what it states applies only in case the condition is certain.

So, indeed, who says that? Not me.


Sega designed it for a certain purpose, building it in the way they expect it to be used. If this matches what a lot of people do use it for, then it's not flawed.

The fact that "a lot of people" uses it, doesn't mean that is not flawed either (nor the opposite, of course). I've used some camos when I've felt like it, but that doesn't mean that I'm happy with the system, overall.


You even open with "why has no one told me about this gross limitation before?" Well, maybe they never ran into it or thought of it as a problem? Maybe they did and either said "oh well, I can live" or gave their feedback to Sega.

Yes, and notice how most of the people who didn't know this beforehand, at least on this thread, reacted in a negative way as well? I could say that "maybe" they simply hadn't realized the "problem" for other reasons. I should remind you that we got the camouflage system less than 2 weeks ago, and on top of that, we got only 4 weapon camos, and only one of them is a "serious-looking" weapon. I even know of people who have been carrying the Aries wand camo around since the 27th and they didn't even try using another camo, so they didn't know they couldn't.

Can't know for certain, of course, but I'd be willing to attemp to predict that since we're getting a knuckle camo next, many TE/FIs out there that might have enjoyed the idea of using a matching set (or simply being able to use that camo on their class-free, ugly weapon they use for the sub) are going to be slightly dissapointed.

I still don't see why can't I believe the actual system is flawed, and discuss it here. It's just my opinion, after all, I'm not threatening you with a gun on your forehead so you accept it. You, and Zipzo, are acting like I was doing that, when it's far from the truth. I don't really know why you all seem to be such masters of sublety to assume I'm censoring any divergent opinion, yet fail to read the two times (three counting now) I've written in clear letters that I'm fine, dandy and ok about you posting your opinions on the matter and that my intention was to discuss exactly that.

Did you see me telling people they SHOULD consider this feature flawed, because I tell them so? Because at least my intention as I've repeated many times already is simply to state MY opinion, that FOR ME the system is flawed. Yet you simply go on arguing over semantics. Interestingly, though, nobody has ever tried to tell me yet why they think the system is fine as it is, based on their own opinion and not just "because SEGA might have designed it that way on purpose".


You say it's "bad" for "everyone" and he is saying it's "not bad" for "everyone" but you're treating it as if he's saying there's "no fault" in it for "anyone." Kind of different.

If that's what you got from our exchange then I'd have to say that you didn't pay much attention while reading it (can't blame you, arguments are boring). As far as I remember, I'm saying that the system is "flawed", "from my point of view", and he is saying that I can't really say that because "SEGA might have intended it to be that way, therefore it might not be flawed". To which I answer that the concept of "flaw" doesn't really depend on the sole opinion of the designer, it should take in account the opinion of the customer too. And that, for me, as a customer, it is flawed.

Kind of different, indeed.

[Darki]

sweet delicous tears. and the best part is that the OP is wrong. more than one camo was released they just werent all from AC scratch.

Go on, tell me in what part did I actually complain about only one camo being released. It might not be too close to the part where I mention I bought three camos for different weapon types and attemped to equip them together. That would be a too obvious contradiction.

But I'll just assume that you came here after noticing there's a somewhat incensed discussion going on and wanted to add your bit of coal to the fires, and didn't even bother to read what the discussion is about, at all. And this is what happens when you don't read before trying to troll a thread. The best part is the self-righteous, triumphant tone of that single line. Too bad, Alisha, next time make sure you read something other than the thread's title before making a fool of yourself.

Sweet delicious tears, true to that.

[ShadowDragon28]

**If** a lot of Japanese players request changes to the Weapon Camo system, then it will be changed and improved in a latter update.

It's flawed, yeah, ok.

But dwelling on it is kinda' pointless IMO. Let's move on. As the camo system is now, I could not care less.
There are other, more important aspects that I'd like to see adjusted/improved or added to the game.

[Darki]

^And this is what always happens when people start arguing over semantics instead of just giving their opinions without trying to niptick everyithing others said, as Gigawuts posted.

I don't see why can't we discuss our points of view of whether this system is poorly implemented or not, and maybe give suggestions just for the sake of discussing. That was the idea. Unfortunately we seem unable to discuss shit like mature people.

[gigawuts]

Here we go again so who's winning?

Everyone who's not playing arguing.

edit:

^And this is what always happens when people start arguing over semantics instead of just giving their opinions without trying to niptick everyithing others said, as Gigawuts posted.

I don't see why can't we discuss our points of view of whether this system is poorly implemented or not, and maybe give suggestions just for the sake of discussing. That was the idea. Unfortunately we seem unable to discuss shit like mature people.

I also don't understand the mentality that we can't discuss what we want because other people feel other things are more important.

This forum has the capacity for more than one thread. If you find that one thread does not address what you find most pressing, try exiting that thread and finding another. If no threads offer the discussion you want then try making one, or just deal with it I guess.

Just because something else is worse - and it might not be but that's not the point - does not mean something less problematic can't even be discussed.

[Zenobia]

Everyone who's not playing arguing.

Guess i'll go ahead and take my free throw shots.

[LonelyGaruga]

I don't grasp the point of the arguments that have been going on in this thread (namely, the defense of the current system). There are obvious ways to make the system more versatile to its users (the players), which have been discussed in this thread already. Why shouldn't these ideas be brought up to Sega? As the current system is, it only allows a single camo for a weapon to be used at once, and covers all types of weapons. The system could be improved to allow for greater variety of weapon camos and to allow individual weapons to have camos applied. Doing that would make everything that is possible in the current system capable of being done, and adds its own benefits. I can't think of any reason to keep the current system. Tack on something that necessitates AC for this feature, and Sega profits from this too, making everyone happy (except the people unwilling to shell out money for camos...but Sega is first and foremost a business, like all video game companies, and they can't exactly give everything out for free here).

Really, what's the point of keeping the system as it is? It really seems more to me that Sega is implementing it just to see what type of responses they'll get in order to get a better direction of where to go for the camo system. Is that a good thing? Not in my opinion. But it's something that I believe should be kept in mind.

[Syklo]

SEGA should just give us an in-game weapon salon.
THEN WE CAN DO WHATEVERTHEFACKWEWANTTO

[UnLucky]

Notice the "if" there in the middle of the quote? It's supposed to form a conditional sentence, meaning that what it states applies only in case the condition is certain.

So, indeed, who says that? Not me.Really? It certainly came off like you were touting the fact that a significant portion of the player base was already on your side all in agreement that the system is flawed, and that it should be an obvious thing if anyone sane just takes a look at the system.


The fact that "a lot of people" uses it, doesn't mean that is not flawed either (nor the opposite, of course). I've used some camos when I've felt like it, but that doesn't mean that I'm happy with the system, overall.That's not what I meant. I didn't say "people used the system, so it's fine" I said "that's all they use it for" as in, the way they want to use it is the way Sega thought they would.


Yes, and notice how most of the people who didn't know this beforehand, at least on this thread, reacted in a negative way as well? I could say that "maybe" they simply hadn't realized the "problem" for other reasons.Yeah, like me.


I still don't see why can't I believe the actual system is flawed, and discuss it here. It's just my opinion, after all, I'm not threatening you with a gun on your forehead so you accept it. You, and Zipzo, are acting like I was doing that, when it's far from the truth.You can say it's flawed and he can say it isn't.


If that's what you got from our exchange then I'd have to say that you didn't pay much attention while reading it (can't blame you, arguments are boring). As far as I remember, I'm saying that the system is "flawed", "from my point of view", and he is saying that I can't really say that because "SEGA might have intended it to be that way, therefore it might not be flawed". To which I answer that the concept of "flaw" doesn't really depend on the sole opinion of the designer, it should take in account the opinion of the customer too. And that, for me, as a customer, it is flawed.No I read it all, and trying to make sense of what Zipzo's saying. Just going by your first post, you act like the designers are dumb, and anyone who is fine with the system just hasn't really used it. He just took too many words to say "I don't think it's like that." Not like it stops anyone from discussing the current weapon camo system and what we'd want changed. And so far there hasn't really been any arguments for why how it is now is better than how you want it to be.

[ShadowDragon28]

It's funny how some people here like Darki and Gigawuts assume things and read into things that were never implied or said.

FYI I never said people shouldn't discuss or debate about something. Excuse me for daring to suggest anyone should take a fuckin' chill pill and maybe calm down with the bickering back and forth and do something more productive or maybe table the argument and agree to disagree. Excuuuuuse me. ffs

[emily05]

my 2 cents - im glad this system works like crap.

You spend so much time hunting rares this game, and were going to encourage people to cover up their achievments? :p

people will just feel the need to get those ridic cash shop skins as a status symbol...

[Darki]

Really? It certainly came off like you were touting the fact that a significant portion of the player base was already on your side all in agreement that the system is flawed, and that it should be an obvious thing if anyone sane just takes a look at the system.

Well, then certainly you made the wrong assumptions, because why would I say something like that without any sort of proof backing my statement up in the first place?

Zipzo said that the system shouldn't be considered "flawed" if SEGA intended it to be the way it is. I just said that if the fanbase didn't agree with that, then what SEGA though on the matter shouldn't be taken as an absolute. That you wanna take that as me saying that the fanbase does think this way, is not my problem. <_<


That's not what I meant. I didn't say "people used the system, so it's fine" I said "that's all they use it for" as in, the way they want to use it is the way Sega thought they would.

Well, how else would we use this system? Is there any alternative? is not like we can hack the game to tell SEGA how we think we should use the system instead. =/


You can say it's flawed and he can say it isn't.

If we agree on this, why is there a shitstorm blowing towards me on this issue still?


No I read it all, and trying to make sense of what Zipzo's saying. Just going by your first post, you act like the designers are dumb, and anyone who is fine with the system just hasn't really used it. He just took too many words to say "I don't think it's like that." Not like it stops anyone from discussing the current weapon camo system and what we'd want changed. And so far there hasn't really been any arguments for why how it is now is better than how you want it to be.

I don't remember making such statements even in my first post. In any case I'd admit that the tone of it was a bit too irated, but I think you and/or Zipzo are just taking things out of context. =/

Yes, I think the current system is retarded. So yes, I think the designers were dumb to implement it the way they did on the first place. Is not the first time that designers of this franchise would have acted dumb. I don't see why is it so outrageous to think this way with yet another of its features. is not going to be the last one, either.

[Darki]

my 2 cents - im glad this system works like crap.

You spend so much time hunting rares this game, and were going to encourage people to cover up their achievments? :p

people will just feel the need to get those ridic cash shop skins as a status symbol...

Well, maybe I wanna cover it up because it looks like crap. I'm sorry, but there's no way I'm going to get caught on a screenshot alive using a freaking digg's nose stuck up a pole for a partisan. <_<

[Zenobia]

Well, maybe I wanna cover it up because it looks like crap. I'm sorry, but there's no way I'm going to get caught on a screenshot alive using a freaking digg's nose stuck up a pole for a partisan. <_<

I would show all dem enemies how it feels to have a digg diggin in your ass HAHAHAHA LMFAO AWW MAN SRSLY!

[UnLucky]

Well, how else would we use this system? Is there any alternative? is not like we can hack the game to tell SEGA how we think we should use the system instead. =/

Yes... The alternative would be what you're suggesting. Or what someone else suggested. Or what other games do similarly. Or come up with something entirely new.

See, features don't just appear out of nowhere. Neither is it all up to only one person (generally). The programmers don't have free reign, the designers don't dictate every little detail, and marketing or customer support or PR or the guy running the #Sega feed don't get the final say.

They'll come up with ideas. Brainstorm features. Maybe get some average Joe to poke around with some mockups and see how frustrated he gets. They're thinking "What kind of features would our customers want?" "What do they want to use these features for?"

If the weapon camo system IS what the players wanted, and how it works IS all they wanted from it, it's a success. They planned it out correctly, their view of the average player is valid, and they properly implemented everything they set out to achieve in the first place.

I'm not saying that's necessarily how it is. I, Zips, or you don't speak for the majority of the playerbase. And I actually agree with you that players should be able to equip multiple different weapon skins at once. But if most people don't care for it, then it doesn't need to be changed. It would be nice for those that want it, and it won't hurt those that don't, but it's not going to make a huge difference overall.

If many players using the current weapon camo system find it to be insufficient, some will give Sega their feedback. If Sega gets a lot of such feedback, they might consider revising the weapon camo system accordingly. Posting about it publicly like in this thread does help too, since anyone interested in the feature can learn more about it and even send their ideas to Sega. It would also serve to gauge public opinion, to see where you stand and how likely you could get your wish.

[Zipzo]

my 2 cents - im glad this system works like crap.

You spend so much time hunting rares this game, and were going to encourage people to cover up their achievments? :p

people will just feel the need to get those ridic cash shop skins as a status symbol...

This person has it right.

Sometimes regardless of player feedback some things are better left unchanged, unless of course it was to have a major impact on the bottom-line...which this feature won't because it has close to absolutely zero effect on your performance unless you perform better simply because you look better to your tastes (It's an actual thing I suppose).

I also want to touch on Shadow's comment in agreement, you have a real way of cluster****ing up a persons words Darki. I simply came in to say I think the system is fine and works great, your rebound tirade wasn't required. Simple agreement to disagree would have sufficed. You might have got off less annoyed if you tried that. I can respect that you think the system needs an overhaul to be (in your eyes) acceptable for the game.

I think it's fine, and no change is necessary for reasons illustrated and stated by not just me. Now the proper thing to do here is swallow that, and don't bother trying to mind control me in to thinking that what I think is stupid (which I'm guilty of doing occasionally, but Im trying to improve and certainly don't believe I've done it here).

[redroses]

my 2 cents - im glad this system works like crap.

You spend so much time hunting rares this game, and were going to encourage people to cover up their achievments? :p

people will just feel the need to get those ridic cash shop skins as a status symbol...

Isn't wanting to show off your rare weapon not also wanting to show off a status symbol. As in, "hey look everybody, I got this super duper rare and want everybody to see it".

It doesn't matter if I took months do find a 10* super rare weapon. If it is ugly, I might consider selling it, even if it is really strong. I always prefer looks over function, and in my opinion I find a lot of the 10* weapons to be really boring looking. So I really would prefer a weapon camo system that could let me pick any weapon as a skin.

[Darki]

Yes... The alternative would be what you're suggesting. Or what someone else suggested. Or what other games do similarly. Or come up with something entirely new.

But you said that if players use it the way SEGA designed it, then it's valid. My question is, how would it be used otherwise, when we are limited by the boundaries of what the game allows us to do? I can't tell sega that I would like to use multiple weapon camos by doing so, because to begin with, the game doesn't support that feature.

And seeing that I use camos nevertheless, and assuming that since I use them I should like them would be a mistake. I use them because I like the concept of camouflating the weapons. At least I have one lousy option even though I'd like it in a different way, so I use it.


See, features don't just appear out of nowhere. Neither is it all up to only one person (generally). The programmers don't have free reign, the designers don't dictate every little detail, and marketing or customer support or PR or the guy running the #Sega feed don't get the final say.

They'll come up with ideas. Brainstorm features. Maybe get some average Joe to poke around with some mockups and see how frustrated he gets. They're thinking "What kind of features would our customers want?" "What do they want to use these features for?"

Well, I'm very sorry, but while I guess you're right in the proccess, I still don't get how could they believe that people would be contempt with just being able to equip a single camo at a time, and not being able to choose which weapon to reskin and which not, considering that is a system that has been implemented in many other games. They're not discovering America here.

I could believe what Zipzo said, that they didn't intend us to give such control over the system to begin with... But, honestly? In a game like this, where people pay as much money for a lobby dance than for a top tier weapon, where cosmetics are as valuable, if not more, than utility items, where SEGA makes a hell of a deal by just selling cosmetics in a lottery? Do you really believe that they'd decide to deliberately tune down another cosmetic feature that we've probably been suggesting since PSU (if not PSO)? I'm sorry but it doesn't sound too realistic to me.

I just hope it's as someone said previously, that they added it like this just to "test the waters" and see what people complain about and what they suggest. But the problem with doing that instead of some sort of player survey beforehand, is that if people happened to absolutely NOT like the system, and would have preferred as an entirely different mechanic, like the idea of the NPC counter and camos as something similar to the accesory/hairstyle options in the cosmetics shop, they'd have fuckedit up big time. They'd have created a feature that they can't really scrap entirely and re-implement in a whole new way, because then they'd be throwing all the money and effort they spent on creating what we have now, and I haven't seen any gaming enerprise doing something like that lately unless the fuck-up was so epic that they would be facing serious losses.

With the rest of your post, I agree entirely, so no need to go over it.


Isn't wanting to show off your rare weapon not also wanting to show off a status symbol. As in, "hey look everybody, I got this super duper rare and want everybody to see it".

It doesn't matter if I took months do find a 10* super rare weapon. If it is ugly, I might consider selling it, even if it is really strong. I always prefer looks over function, and in my opinion I find a lot of the 10* weapons to be really boring looking. So I really would prefer a weapon camo system that could let me pick any weapon as a skin.

Not to mention that by "showing off teh rarz" you're not really showing your achievements, you're just showing how lucky you are. If they actually required any real skill to get other than being in the right place, right moment, then maybe I'd agree.

[Alisha]

so my topic gets sent to rants and not this one? lol

[UnLucky]

Isn't wanting to show off your rare weapon not also wanting to show off a status symbol. As in, "hey look everybody, I got this super duper rare and want everybody to see it".

It doesn't matter if I took months do find a 10* super rare weapon. If it is ugly, I might consider selling it, even if it is really strong. I always prefer looks over function, and in my opinion I find a lot of the 10* weapons to be really boring looking. So I really would prefer a weapon camo system that could let me pick any weapon as a skin.

Your damage will show everyone you're not covering up a crappy item with a skin. And if anyone looks at your char info, they will see your rare weapon and affixes and such.

And you're not everyone. Some people would rather use that rare they found if it's really strong. If it's ugly, they'll just take the stats and use a weapon skin instead of selling it.


But you said that if players use it the way SEGA designed it, then it's valid. My question is, how would it be used otherwise, when we are limited by the boundaries of what the game allows us to do? I can't tell sega that I would like to use multiple weapon camos by doing so, because to begin with, the game doesn't support that feature.

Wow. You. Read my posts again? I don't understand why you're still hung up over this. If nobody complains because the existing system is everything they want, then Sega guessed correctly.

People use weapon camo. They are satisfied. Good.

People use weapon camo. They are not satisfied. They tell Sega what they would want changed.

Of course the only system they can use is the one that's implemented. But if they want to use it for something else, they can't, and they'll complain. If they don't, then they won't. That's all I'm saying.

And you're still assuming that everyone using the system thinks it sucks and wants something else. We'll see if there's some backlash from the Japanese players soon enough. They might all ask for weapon skin creation from standard weapons, per-weapon skinning, and multiple skins at once, if that's what they want. If not, then I guess they're fine with a "tuned down" cosmetic system after all.

[redroses]

Your damage will show everyone you're not covering up a crappy item with a skin. And if anyone looks at your char info, they will see your rare weapon and affixes and such.

And you're not everyone. Some people would rather use that rare they found if it's really strong. If it's ugly, they'll just take the stats and use a weapon skin instead of selling it.

Interesting, I can't find the part in my post where I wrote that I am everyone. I see me mentioning what >I< would like and how >I< feel about the subject, I didn't write or mention anywhere that somebody has to feel the way that I do.

[Darki]

so my topic gets sent to rants and not this one? lol

Says the one who doesn't even read what threads are about before trying to troll them, lol.

It might not require it to be sent to rants section if we avoid unnecesary posts like both of yours in this thread. Also, the fact that your thread ended looking more like a 9gag page than a forum thread discussing an issue might have helped it. I hope that you don't do that to my topic since we're discussing a feature that was recently implemented in the game and that most people that have posted here have expressed their dissapointment.

But hey, if you're jelly that I pwn3d you on your previous troll attemp and that your thread got kicked to the rants section, it's not really my problem. Go yell into a pillow.


Wow. You. Read my posts again? I don't understand why you're still hung up over this. If nobody complains because the existing system is everything they want, then Sega guessed correctly.

People use weapon camo. They are satisfied. Good.

People use weapon camo. They are not satisfied. They tell Sega what they would want changed.

Of course the only system they can use is the one that's implemented. But if they want to use it for something else, they can't, and they'll complain. If they don't, then they won't. That's all I'm saying.

And you're still assuming that everyone using the system thinks it sucks and wants something else. We'll see if there's some backlash from the Japanese players soon enough. They might all ask for weapon skin creation from standard weapons, per-weapon skinning, and multiple skins at once, if that's what they want. If not, then I guess they're fine with a "tuned down" cosmetic system after all.

And where in my posts I expressed any sort of opposition for what you just said? You're the one who keeps assuming that I think that everybody thinks like me. Dude, don't you take a hint from my previous posts? I'm going to have to agree with Redroses previous post, it seems like you're just taking shit out of context for the sake of arguing.

I've told you already... well fuck, I've even lost count of how many times I might have said it. That I'm just expressing my opinion, and every possible generalization I'm writting about comes with a big huge IF, which should tell you that no, I DON'T assume that they do think that way, I'm just guessing what would happen IF that was the case. And even if I forgot adding any conditional before, I still think it's implicit to my statements.

I don't evem know why do you keep beating the dead horse here. You're again just arguing over semantics. We do agree on the things that you're not taking out of context, which is pretty much the issue here, so why keep trying to tell me what you think my assumptions are?

[UnLucky]

Interesting, I can't find the part in my post where I wrote that I am everyone. I see me mentioning what >I< would like and how >I< feel about the subject, I didn't write or mention anywhere that somebody has to feel the way that I do.

It's just odd you're against skinning a rare because it's an achievement, but you're for getting rid of it entirely because it looks bad.


You're the one who keeps assuming that I think that everybody thinks like me. Dude, don't you take a hint from my previous posts? I'm going to have to agree with Redroses previous post, it seems like you're just taking shit out of context for the sake of arguing.

Well you're the one saying things like "there's no way people are content with this limited system" and "it's obvious players want more." Maybe you should explicitly say the "if" you think is so heavily implied.

But as long as you understand that I'm not saying people are clearly satisfied with the system because they use it. I've had to clarify that several times now. That's like the only reason I keep responding.

[Darki]

Well you're the one saying things like "there's no way people are content with this limited system" and "it's obvious players want more."

Really? Where?


But as long as you understand that I'm not saying people are clearly satisfied with the system because they use it. I've had to clarify that several times now. That's like the only reason I keep responding.

I don't remember ever mentioning that you said such thing, either. =/

[UnLucky]

Really? Where?
I still don't get how could they believe that people would be contempt with just being able to equip a single camo at a time, and not being able to choose which weapon to reskin and which not, considering that is a system that has been implemented in many other games. They're not discovering America here.

But, honestly? In a game like this, where people pay as much money for a lobby dance than for a top tier weapon, where cosmetics are as valuable, if not more, than utility items, where SEGA makes a hell of a deal by just selling cosmetics in a lottery? Do you really believe that they'd decide to deliberately tune down another cosmetic feature that we've probably been suggesting since PSU (if not PSO)? I'm sorry but it doesn't sound too realistic to me.

Conjecture and assumptions. Though it is logical and I feel the same, it could be worded better to not be so matter-of-fact.


I don't remember ever mentioning that you said such thing, either. =/
The whole "they use it so it's a success" thing which wasn't my angle. You kept saying "how are they going to show Sega they want more if all they have is what they have?" when I was all about player surveys and feedback.

[Darki]

Conjecture and assumptions. Though it is logical and I feel the same, it could be worded better to not be so matter-of-fact.

Or you could read the rant'ish context on the post and then read the rest of the posts where I'm more objective and I'm repeating over and over and over and over and over that it's not the case.

Y'know, so we don't spend more pages discussing over semantics, again. We're not a language academics forum for you to tell me how should I have worded it, when it's clear that you got perfectly what I meant and you're just trying to "correct me". And you're doing the same with Redroses, even when he had clarified already his point.


The whole "they use it so it's a success" thing which wasn't my angle. You kept saying "how are they going to show Sega they want more if all they have is what they have?" when I was all about player surveys and feedback.

Funny that you say that's the whole point you were making when you keep debating what you think are my assumptions. But please, let's stop alreeady. This goes nowhere anymore. I don't wanna keep playing the game of "you said that I said that you said" for longer. -_-