So.. how does it feel to be Brazilian in a MMO?

[Mekhana]

Hello everyone, long time MMORPG player and Brazilian to boot. Fortunately unlike some of my countrymen I'm fluent in English so we can have a pleasant conversation in this thread. This is purely the means to get your opinions on this important subject.

I see a lot of players making complaints about the Japanese players of how they treat westerners. How they disapprove of people speaking English in lobbies and parties, how they kick anyone with a western style name instantly from their parties, demand region blocks and general traits of classical xenophobia in MMOs.

Meanwhile at the same time this has caused some animosity towards Japanese players from the western players, I have see a few people in block 20 yelling in English for the Japanese to get out of 'their' block. Very typical.

This a classical case when two cultures clash in a MMO. I have been on both sides of the fence before except this time around I can't communicate with the natives unlike the other MMOs I've played before and am unable to act as a middleman this time around.

Be very glad PSO2 is not a pvp centric game, then you would find out what xenophobia is really all about in MMOs. I have some lulz worthy stories about Brazilian tactics to 'take over' servers normally after players or top guilds make inflammatory remarks about Brazilians. Then the Brazilian Swarm follows making the Zerg and the Tyranids look like pre-teen schoolgirls. Think about a place like /v/ except people work towards common goals.

It would be fun if westerners pulled something out like this in a Japanese server. I would take part in it and it would be glorious.

Anyways so next time you see a player in your game, may he be from Brazil or any other country that doesn't speak your language try to be a little more understanding of him. Sure there are bad players but that goes for both sides, a lot of players that claim to be Brazilians in games like League of Legends are actually trolls. We have own server now and got no reason to play with you anymore, unless we happen to have American friends that is (this is my case.)

Because let me tell you something, Japanese players treat you like esteemed guests compared to I have witnessed as a Brazilian in MMOs, I can mask my presence somewhat due to my understanding of English but I have seen for years how non speakers get treated in english speaking games and it's far worse.

Let's fight against xenophobia together. Let the love for our game guide us towards that goal.

-Mekh

[Zenobia]

Hello everyone, long time MMORPG player and Brazilian to boot. Fortunately unlike some of my countrymen I'm fluent in English so we can have a pleasant conversation in this thread. This is purely the means to get your opinions on this important subject.

I see a lot of players making complaints about the Japanese players of how they treat westerners. How they disapprove of people speaking English in lobbies and parties, how they kick anyone with a western style name instantly from their parties, demand region blocks and general traits of classical xenophobia in MMOs.

Meanwhile at the same time this has caused some animosity towards Japanese players from the western players, I have see people in block 20 yelling in English for the Japanese to get out of 'their' block. Very typical.

This a classical case when two cultures clash in a MMO. I have been on both sides of the fence before except this time around I can't communicate with the natives unlike the other MMOs I've played before and am unable to act as a middleman this time around.

Be very glad PSO2 is not a pvp centric game, then you would find out what xenophobia is really all about in MMOs. I have some lulz worthy stories about Brazilian tactics to 'take over' servers normally after players or top guilds make inflammatory remarks about Brazilians. Then the Brazilian Swarm follows making the Zerg and the Tyranids look like pre-teen schoolgirls. Think about a place like /v/ except people work towards common goals.

It would be fun if westerners pulled something out like this in a Japanese server. I would take part in it and it would be glorious.

Anyways so next time you see a player in your game, may he be from Brazil or any other country that doesn't speak your language try to be a little more understanding of him. Sure there are bad players but that goes for both sides, a lot of players that claim to be Brazilians in games like League of Legends are actually trolls. We have own server now and got no reason to play with you anymore, unless we happen to have American friends that is (this is my case.)

Because let me tell you something, Japanese players treat you like esteemed guests compared to I have witnessed as a Brazilian in MMOs, I can mask my presence somewhat due to my understanding of English but I have seen for years how non speakers get treated in english speaking games and it's far worse.

Let's fight against xenophobia together. Let the love for our game guide us towards that goal.

-Mekh

Instead o saying B20 you should say some ppl in B20 you don't forget there are some reasonable ppl on that block do not group those sensible ppl with B20 that in it's self is very typical.

All in all prepare yourself because this thread might not end well a warning but I hope this can stay civil.

Also I haven't been kicked from parties and what not also I have some Japanese friends so let's see whats going on from the post that come flooding in.

[Mekhana]

I did not mean all players in b20 behave like that. So I'll fix that now.

[blace]

Besides culture and not being able to understand one another, I haven't been kicked and/or been told to go to block 20.

I do see the MPA's I'm in die out though when a few people speak english, but nothing serious to address up front. I haven't been in block 20 in a while, but the few times I've logged in and was put there, it seems fairly quiet. Probably to due with my play schedule.

[Mekhana]

I haven't been kicked and/or been told to go to block 20.

Personally I have. I was talking to some friends at either b9 or 10 and was told repeatedly by a few Japanese players to go to b20. When I told their translator b20 was full, he promptly told me to just shut up.

I was lucky to not get kicked the first time I joined a Japanese party for Falz despite my english autowords, english name and such. I don't party with pugs oftenly due to my team is very active so I never had to experience that side of the game fortunately.

I have a Japanese player in my team and he's a great guy. He translated tons of autowords and phrases for me to communicate with Japanese players so I'm prepared to adapt. And they are not as talkative as westerners it appears, so a simple "Hello" "Revive please" and "Thanks for PT" tend to suffice.

So besides that 'go block 20' incident my experiences were entirely positive with Japanese players.

[Lumpen Thingy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjrTOjxjxk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjrTOjxjxk something like this right?

[Mekhana]

Exactly like that.

[Reia]

Well I can understand the ressentment of the Brazilians, it get discriminated even by my own nation of Argentina (Also known as the spanish speaking Italians, for having the same size of ego).

Then again in Ship-1 things ain't that bad, as I speak with some japanese and there's many non-japanese speakers in my guild that doesn't even have their own block. It's not where you come from. Is the attitude the people from ship-2 that turned them into xenophobical. They just get tired of their constant cheating from the Chinese who speaks in english instead of japanese to try communicate with foreigneers (since they don't know the difference between foreigneers, any non-japanese speaker gets generalize). The Ship-2 incidents amongst with the hackers and the fact of their persistence and the spamming in public chat and very obscene symbol art (I don't see that kind of profanity in other ships, making me think that symbol art will be banned in EN). Japanese don't judge people based on their nationality but their actions.

And sadly my main concern about Ship-2 is that everything that happenned in the first month will be the everday of EN servers...

[jooozek]

with all the shit i see from the english players the japanese have every right to get angry
call it xenophobia or whatever shit you want
im gonna remind you that the tos states that you are not allowed to connect at all if you are outside of japan

[blace]

^Like anyone cares anymore until someone starts complaining about being banned.

Really though, it is in the terms, feeling alienated on a server that was not meant for use outside of its proposed region, isn't something new.

[Angelo]

Western players are the BRs of Japan.

However the entitlement and self-importance I've witnessed among westerners while interacting with JP players is just unprecedented.
The anglosphere is, for the most part, well-dressed garbage, so it's pretty typical.

It's just funny to see how it took playing a videogame for most people to start seeing it.

[Rien]

You see, when I go to an English server, I want people speaking English, not fucking Brazillian. Well, okay, you're free to talk in your language to your own people, but good lord, please at least know some English since you're here. I start flaming when I see these guys who waltz in yet only speak their own language, with no regards to the English we're all supposed to speak.

The same goes when I'm here in a Japanese server. When they expect you to speak in Japanese, at least know something to say.

[Zenobia]

You see, when I go to an English server, I want people speaking English, not fucking Brazillian. Well, okay, you're free to talk in your language to your own people, but good lord, please at least know some English since you're here. I start flaming when I see these guys who waltz in yet only speak their own language, with no regards to the English we're all supposed to speak.

The same goes when I'm here in a Japanese server. When they expect you to speak in Japanese, at least know something to say.

^Bingoooooo well said Rein and pretty much this~!.

It's all about common courtesy and it seems some of us threw that away a long time ago along with our brains.

[Darki]

You see, when I go to an English server, I want people speaking English, not fucking Brazillian. Well, okay, you're free to talk in your language to your own people, but good lord, please at least know some English since you're here. I start flaming when I see these guys who waltz in yet only speak their own language, with no regards to the English we're all supposed to speak.

There's an issue here. If you're talking about the Phantasy Star franchise, the problem is that the western servers are usually sold as US/EU servers. So I'm sorry to pop your wonderland bubble, but if the server is supposed to be international, there's no rule, official or even of "courtesy", that says that we should be speaking english.

Of course, english is a language known everywhere, but if I buy a game sold by SEGA in Spain, where I can connect and pay my services from Spain, which is sold as an international server and I don't need to do anything in any other language to get online, I will speak spanish whenever I want and I will play even if I know jack squat of english. And if you believe I am supposed to not to speak my own language in an international server, then I'd believe you're supposed to show some manners and learn some tolerance.

It's really unfortunate that many english-speakers are so selfish and self-centered as this, trying to impose their language to other players even when it's not neccesary or it has nothing to do with them. I still remember the many times I got the typical "go back to Mexico" (on top of impolite, retarded) comments while I was playing the western PSU servers, even when it was clear that I was chatting with a friend in the lobby and nobody should really give a shit about what we'd be chatting. Unless you're the typical soap-opera addicted old fart that needs to be aware of everybody's conversations, of course. Then I'd understand.

[Mekhana]

Western players are the BRs of Japan.

However the entitlement and self-importance I've witnessed among westerners while interacting with JP players is just unprecedented.
The anglosphere is, for the most part, well-dressed garbage, so it's pretty typical.

It's just funny to see how it took playing a videogame for most people to start seeing it.

Went straight to the root of the problem. Well spotted good sir.


There's an issue here. If you're talking about the Phantasy Star franchise, the problem is that the western servers are usually sold as US/EU servers. So I'm sorry to pop your wonderland bubble, but if the server is supposed to be international, there's no rule, official or even of "courtesy", that says that we should be speaking english.

Of course, english is a language known everywhere, but if I buy a game sold by SEGA in Spain, where I can connect and pay my services from Spain, which is sold as an international server and I don't need to do anything in any other language to get online, I will speak spanish whenever I want and I will play even if I know jack squat of english. And if you believe I am supposed to not to speak my own language in an international server, then I'd believe you're supposed to show some manners and learn some tolerance.

Thank you! Finally someone who understood the topic I brought up. I've been playing pay to play MMOs for many years now, many of these games were packaged, localized and translated into my language to be played by Brazilians. Not a single pint of effort is required to know or learn english to play the game because it was meant to be this way.

There was never a label that said 'English Speaking Only' on any of them. Besides even knowing English fluently such as in my case is not enough to make you immune to the bigotry of certain players. Just knowing you are Brazilian or foreign is enough to attract the wrath of these entitled players. This reminds me of when I used to play Rift and there were two big foreign teams in my server, our Brazilian team (Banana Empire, we also picked the name to make fun of these players too) though they are probably not smart enough to pick the humor up and a French speaking guild of players from Quebec.

We were both shunned by the other top guilds in the server only because we spoke a differently language as a mother tongue. It's sickening really.

[Joffrey X]

OP since you're brazilian you should know that the attitude of english people towards brazilians on na/eu isnt born out of racism or xenophobia.

People tend to stereotype brazilian gamers because a lot of them are either are 10 year olds, or act like 10 year olds, and act really really rude.

I think brazilians just often have bad gaming etiquette. there are definitely exceptions, but many just dont give a crap.

Ive had brazilians DEMAND that i use an auto translator to give them instructions in portuguese, even though it was an english server. and that sort of behavior.

another thing I noticed is that brazilians INSIST on joining english parties, rooms, etc. even if they're asked not to, and they know theyre not supposed to. they just don't seem to care.

I've played a lot of fighting games where brazilian people lag really bad to us, and they know they lag, and they know we cant hit them -- but they insist on joining anyway! and if you kick them, they come back.

I have also met REALLY nice brazilians, but I get a lot of behavior like that. maybe it's the 10-year-old net cafe scene. I have no idea.

[Mekhana]

A line for each different stereotype, good job!

And auto translator? Either you got trolled really hard (welcome to the internet son) or you are making this up. Don't you think that would be too much effort from a brazilian player, when they could just kick you from their party and pick another among the 100s of Brazilians?

And good job with that edit and sugar coating your bigotry. I won't even talk to you anymore. You are much worse than the people you hate.

[Joffrey X]

point is, I don't really see that kind of behavior from english people.

most english people dont bother japanese players, or if they do, they make an effort to know some key japanese phrases!

Yes, with the english community, you see people specifically learning Japanese (pretty much a not very useful langauge) JUST so they can be courteous and respectful to the JP players.

in general english players all stay on B20 and keep to themselves too. Whereas brazilians on english servers seem to not have any respect for other people.

edit: I don't "HATE" brazilian people. I just notice that a lot of brazilians do act that way on GAMES. if you act properly in-game, then your nationality doesn't matter at all.

[Hellahym]

There's an issue here. If you're talking about the Phantasy Star franchise, the problem is that the western servers are usually sold as US/EU servers. So I'm sorry to pop your wonderland bubble, but if the server is supposed to be international, there's no rule, official or even of "courtesy", that says that we should be speaking english.

Of course, english is a language known everywhere, but if I buy a game sold by SEGA in Spain, where I can connect and pay my services from Spain, which is sold as an international server and I don't need to do anything in any other language to get online, I will speak spanish whenever I want and I will play even if I know jack squat of english. And if you believe I am supposed to not to speak my own language in an international server, then I'd believe you're supposed to show some manners and learn some tolerance.

It's really unfortunate that many english-speakers are so selfish and self-centered as this, trying to impose their language to other players even when it's not neccesary or it has nothing to do with them. I still remember the many times I got the typical "go back to Mexico" (on top of impolite, retarded) comments while I was playing the western PSU servers, even when it was clear that I was chatting with a friend in the lobby and nobody should really give a shit about what we'd be chatting. Unless you're the typical soap-opera addicted old fart that needs to be aware of everybody's conversations, of course. Then I'd understand.

^This.

Also, I got no trouble with brazilian people except one: they pwned us, argentinos, in every soccer game lol. ^^;

[Darki]

Thank you! Finally someone who understood the topic I brought up. I've been playing pay to play MMOs for many years now, many of these games were packaged, localized and translated into my language to be played by Brazilians. Not a single pint of effort is required to know or learn english to play the game because it was meant to be this way.

There was never a label that said 'English Speaking Only' on any of them. Besides even knowing English fluently such as in my case is not enough to make you immune to the bigotry of certain players. Just knowing you are Brazilian or foreign is enough to attract the wrath of these entitled players.

It's just sad how many english-speaking players (I would actually throw the blame directly at US players, since british players, being used to being one among many in Europe are usually more respectful towards other languages when in public) feel entitled to tell other people what they should be doing or speaking.

I do understand that attitude, somehow, on the JP servers. It is supposed to be a "nihon-jin onri" server, but still, I believe people should be polite above all. I don't get why people feel the urge to be ill-mannered and instead of approaching the issue with caution they just go with the "go back to Mexico/Brasil" bullshit. Why would anybody be annoyed at some other people speaking in another language when the conversation doesn't involve them? I know I wouldn't be even if I saw people speaking other languages in "my" spanish server. I just can't comprehend that attitude.

I would understand it in cases where gameplay is in the way, for example in parties and MPAs, but even in these cases, in the western servers you don't really have that excuse. If I'm playing a server that is being advertised as "international", then I'm as entitled to speak my language by default as any english speaker. If you didn't want anybody speaking other languages in your party/MPA, then you could simply add the label to your party description. If I create a party or an MPA, in them by default I'd allow people to speak whatever the hell they want, and the ones I'd kick would be those complaining about it.

[Mekhana]

^This.

Also, I got no trouble with brazilian people except one: they pwned us, argentinos, in every soccer game lol. ^^;

It's actually closer to 50/50 the win/loss rate lol. We even lost painful football matches in the world cup, including one in the finals to you hermanos before.


It's just sad how many english-speaking players (I would actually throw the blame directly at US players, since british players, being used to being one among many in Europe are usually more respectful towards other languages when in public) feel entitled to tell other people what they should be doing or speaking.

I do understand that attitude, somehow, on the JP servers. It is supposed to be a "nihon-jin onri" server, but still, I believe people should be polite above all. I don't get why people feel the urge to be ill-mannered and instead of approaching the issue with caution they just go with the "go back to Mexico/Brasil" bullshit. Why would anybody be annoyed at some other people speaking in another language when the conversation doesn't involve them? I know I wouldn't be even if I saw people speaking other languages in "my" spanish server. I just can't comprehend that attitude.

I would understand it in cases where gameplay is in the way, for example in parties and MPAs, but even in these cases, in the western servers you don't really have that excuse. If I'm playing a server that is being advertised as "international", then I'm as entitled to speak my language by default as any english speaker. If you didn't want anybody speaking other languages in your party/MPA, then you could simply add the label to your party description. If I create a party or an MPA, in them by default I'd allow people to speak whatever the hell they want, and the ones I'd kick would be those complaining about it.

Wish I could thumb you up, sir.

[Joffrey X]

as an english speaker, you're telling me you wouldn't get annoyed if a bunch of people were speaking portuguese and chinese , flooding your party chat with stuff you don't understand?

on an english server? :)

I'm gonna have to call BS.

[Mekhana]

as an english speaker, you're telling me you wouldn't get annoyed if a bunch of people were speaking portuguese and chinese , flooding your party chat with stuff you don't understand?

on an english server? :)

I'm gonna have to call BS.

Not everyone is a bigot like you.

[Joffrey X]

Not everyone is a bigot like you.

Language barriers and bigotry are unrelated you ignoramus

[Mekhana]

Language barriers and bigotry are unrelated you ignoramus

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigotry?s=t

[Darki]

as an english speaker, you're telling me you wouldn't get annoyed if a bunch of people were speaking portuguese and chinese , flooding your party chat with stuff you don't understand?

on an english server? :)

I'm gonna have to call BS.

I wouldn't if I didn't explicitely advertise my party as restricted to my language. I'd call BS if you made a party open to anybody and then started bitching about others speaking their languages. Maybe you should have thought that before opening the party, don't you think?

Also what english server? I hope you're not referring to any Phantasy Star franchise servers. There hasn't ever been any "english" servers. They were international servers.

[Joffrey X]

are you proving yourself wrong? Bigotry has nothing to do with language

simply not being able to understand a language, and getting annoyed if a bunch of people insist on shoving it in your face, is not "bigotry", lol.


I wouldn't if I didn't explicitely advertise my party as restricted to my language. I'd call BS if you made a party open to anybody and then started bitching about others speaking their languages. Maybe you should have thought that before opening the party, don't you think?

Also what english server? I hope you're not referring to any Phantasy Star franchise servers. There hasn't ever been any "english" servers. They were international servers.

I was more saying... in an event where the server's official language was English, and it was servicing USA/Canada, would you get annoyed if a bunch of brazilians came into your group and chatted in portuguese and refused to speak English?

Happens to me all the time on english servers! Of course you'd get annoyed

(no, I wasn't talking about Phantasy star specifically)

[Darki]

I was more saying... in an event where the server's official language was English, and it was servicing USA/Canada, would you get annoyed if a bunch of brazilians came into your group and chatted in portuguese and refused to speak English?

Happens to me all the time on english servers! Of course you'd get annoyed

(no, I wasn't talking about Phantasy star specifically)

Define "group". I would be annoyed if I created a spanish-only party and they joined regardless of if, and started to speak in their language, of course. But why would I be annoyed in any other situation?


are you proving yourself wrong? Bigotry has nothing to do with language

simply not being able to understand a language, and getting annoyed if a bunch of people insist on shoving it in your face, is not "bigotry", lol.

It depends on what do you mean with "shoving it in your face". If you mean to speak the language in a situation where you're involved and you wouldn't understand the conversation, then of course is not bigotry. Any other situation, it is.

[Joffrey X]

I don't think it's bigotry to get annoyed at people using foreign languages on english servers.

bigotry would be hating the language itself, or the people who use it.

in that case, it's just a matter of language barrier frustrations. usually bigotry is more related to hatred against people of certain views, opinions, religions, etc... that's not really the correct situation for it.

I admit, I get annoyed when I'm playing on english servers and Brazilians spam portuguese. but that doesn't mean I hate the language itself, or Brazilian people.

[Mekhana]

You are doing a great job of making yourself look terrible.

Anyways English servers don't normally exist there is no US/Canada servers anywhere anymore, the ones that did were region blocked. The server might be hosted on the US but people from all over the hemisphere access and play on it.

The Caribbean, Central America and South America. If you got a problem complain to the game company for selling the game and not giving people their own servers, not the players.

Besides your so ignorant you probably confused Spanish speaking players with Portuguese speaking players, as we're not the only ones outside of the US in the Americas that play online games.

Not that I expect you to know though. I'll be blocking you now, you clearly represent everything I hate about online gaming.

[Darki]

I don't think it's bigotry to get annoyed at people using foreign languages on english servers.

It is, if you're not really affected by their conversation.

[Joffrey X]

it's almost like you made a thread about language barriers and expected everyone to have the same exact opinion as you.

[Darki]

It'd be difficult to understand any opinion on the matter not based in respect. =/

[gigawuts]

JP PSO2 So.. how does it feel to be Brazilian in a MMO?

Feels good man.

[BIG OLAF]

I've never had an experience with these so-called hyper-rude Brazilians, though I always hear stories about them. Is it really that bad, or are people overreacting?

[Joffrey X]

give and get. If you're on an english server servicing the USA/Canada regions, speak english.

If you wanna speak portuguese, speak it to your friends.

when I'm on JP PSO2, I use simple japanese phrases in the presence of japanese players. I don't spam english like some rude tourist.

[Hellahym]

as an english speaker, you're telling me you wouldn't get annoyed if a bunch of people were speaking portuguese and chinese , flooding your party chat with stuff you don't understand?

on an english server? :)

I'm gonna have to call BS.

I remember in psp2, when in a spanish party* a english speaker arrives, I never saw that kind of attitude.
Even some of us translate one player chat to another player.

Imo the rules are simple:
Majority of spanish speakers: translate for the english one.
All the spanish speakers also chat in english: switch to english
But we translate/switch to english for a matter of respectful/friendly behavior.
Not because is supposed WE MUST, like if was some international law.
The "english is the universal lenguage and everybody must speak it or gtfo" thing don't work for me.


*Not a "exclusive spanish party". Fuck exclusiveness.







I was more saying... in an event where the server's official language was English, and it was servicing USA/Canada, would you get annoyed if a bunch of brazilians came into your group and chatted in portuguese and refused to speak English?

Happens to me all the time on english servers! Of course you'd get annoyed

(no, I wasn't talking about Phantasy star specifically)

Some english speakers -even after notice spanish is the party lenguage- do the same.
As you can see, dickery has no flag.

[Mekhana]

I've never had an experience with these so-called hyper-rude Brazilians, though I always hear stories about them. Is it really that bad, or are people overreacting?

It's stereotyping, scapegoating, overreaction and a combination of the three.

It's not everywhere though, some games just hate the fact you are foreign others games like here people are all relaxed and chilled. I never got flak from being Brazilian on PSO until that guy I was arguing with arrived.

It was part of the reason I liked the game so much.

[Zenobia]

I have no problem with Brazilian or any nationality we all bleed the same blood last time I checked I think it just plain petty how small the world thinks really.

Also Mekkahana being shunned like that by a guild like that is BS and I feel for ya dunno what makes one race so superior to the other not like me have some kinda racial stats or anything.

[Joffrey X]

of course you wouldn't get any flak for being Brazilian. it's not a race/nationality issue, but a matter of individual behavior

you made a snap judgement and called me a racist or a bigot, just because I labeled my experience with CERTAIN Brazilians, who were probably young kids.

you asked for people's opinions and then you get mad when people give them.

[Darki]

Yeah, as I said is a matter of respect. I usually have no problems speaking in english even if the majority of the party speaks my language, if there's anyone who doesn't understand it. It's just that demanding it sounds really rude to me. =/

To clarify it, I was talking about language-exclusive parties because it's a situation where I would understand the "restriction". It would be the same than a party for boss rush where someone starts killing unnecessary mobs. Hey, it's theparty leader's run, so why go crash it.

[Mekhana]

Anyways thanks for your opinions everyone.

I got the smart viewpoint, the tolerable viewpoint and the viewpoint of intolerance from this thread.

I'll get back into playing the game though, I got an international team to run.

[Joffrey X]

let me also clarify. I usually play games that are competitive or difficult and require a lot of communication.

in those games especially, it can be very difficult and annoying when it's an english server, and some Brazilian dude comes in and doesn't speak a lick of english!

the whole dungeon, boss run, or PvP match (whatever the game is) can be ruined with a lack of communication.

so it's really not bigotry. it's just a matter of language barriers being really really inconvenient.

[Zenobia]

Yeah, as I said is a matter of respect. I usually have no problems speaking in english even if the majority of the party speaks my language, if there's anyone who doesn't understand it. It's just that demanding it sounds really rude to me. =/

To claryfy it, I was talking about language-exclusive parties because even though I don't really like them, it's a situation where I would understand the "restriction". It would be the same than a party for boss rush where someone starts killing unnecessary mobs.

Yeah I been in one like that before even had a friend who wanted to join a guild of a player the guy started asking him question about where he lives what his family does and what not and other shit and if they don't it or if you don't speak there language period they tell you to get lost pretty messed up.

Also Mekhana stay cool~.

[NoiseHERO]

What is Brazilian food like?

edit: Also I dunno what borederline shitstorm happened in this thread but I don't think it matters HOW people communicate with each other ANYWHERE as long as you're not making a scene.

like 10 people talking in english in a populated Japanese lobby is whatever... 3 people spamming (and not spamming nice things at that) is another story. Maybe everyone in the world should be less stupid/sensetive/stop being hardasses.

[Syklo]

Felt like having my say here, and I'm probably going to get flamed for this, so either ignore this, or.....BRING IT!

Call me crazy if you want to, but I tend to not have a problem with anyone. However, if you dare to intentionally harass me, I don't care who you are or where you came from, if you DARE harass me, I will find you, and I will kill you. Twice.

I was not familiar with this brazillian stereotype and it was until recently when I understood it; almost all the people who harassed me in such a way, were brazillians.
Let me make this clear though: these trends will make me be cautious, but in no extremely xenophobic way, and I DO NOT impose on others merely by ethnic background, nor do I support doing so, but I may do so on them as individuals, i.e. if some brazillians are nice to me, I'll reciprocate that. If not, too bad (not discriminating brazilians here, just using them as an example since this thread is about them & mmo's....and again, call me crazy if you want to).

I've learnt that on my ship, it's best to avoid contact altogether (I've tried communicating with others but everytime, I get the blank response - polite or casual). If you're going to play with foreigners, at least respect and acknowledge each other first.

As for whether I'd get annoyed if a random joins my party and uses their native language which I'm not familiar with, that depends. If they start blurting out what seems to be insults or just crap, well obviously I would, but if it seems like they're trying to at least take that nice approach by asking a question, even if I have no clue what they're trying to say, I'll try to answer (correctly). Even if they used Google Translate, at least they're TRYING to communicate (nicely, i hope), and that'd spare me the trouble of trying to identify what language they use.

[Darki]

let me also clarify. I usually play games that are competitive or difficult and require a lot of communication.

in those games especially, it can be very difficult and annoying when it's an english server, and some Brazilian dude comes in and doesn't speak a lick of english!

the whole dungeon, boss run, or PvP match (whatever the game is) can be ruined with a lack of communication.

so it's really not bigotry. it's just a matter of language barriers being really really inconvenient.

You don't seem to get it. Nobody here is saying anything againt it in a situation where communication is neccessary. We're not stupid, and unlike many english players, we don't really expect that anybody else should understand our languages.

The issue is that it's simply rude to be told to shut up, speak english or go back to Mexico by some random retard in the lobby when as you might guess, the conversation wouldn't involve that person to begin with. And I'm sorry, but this is valid even in an english server. Even if you're on your national server, there's no reason for you to be annoyed at people speaking other languages unless they're directly involved with you. If you get annoyed by that, I'm sorry, but that's bigotry.

[Joffrey X]

almost all the people who harassed me in such a way, were brazillians.
Let me make this clear though: these trends will make me be cautious, but in no extremely xenophobic way, and I DO NOT impose on others merely by ethnic background, nor do I support doing so, but I may do so on them as individuals, i.e. if some brazillians are nice to me, I'll reciprocate that. If not, too bad (not discriminating brazilians here, just using them as an example since this thread is about them & mmo's....and again, call me crazy if you want to).

Same thing for me... kind of annoying that I'm getting called a bigot in this thread.
I'm extremely open to every nationality, gender,sexuality,religion,race. That's how I was raised and it's what I believe.

but I just can't deny the fact that a lot of people who harass me on online games, scam me, refuse to speak the server's official language... they're usually Brazilians.:-?


even in an english server. Even if you're on your national server, there's no reason for you to be annoyed at people speaking other languages unless they're directly involved with you. If you get annoyed by that, I'm sorry, but that's bigotry.

ok, now that's just silly. If you're in an english specific server and people are flooding the random chat channels with random languages...it's bigotry if I don't like it? dude, you don't know what that means.

[Darki]

refuse to speak the server's official language...

Somehow I don't believe that you're fluent in japanese, but I might be mistaken. That applied to PSO2, of course.

[NoiseHERO]

Yeah typical "I'm not racist" "yes you are" /every one is secretly racist argument..

I'll ask about BR food later...

[Joffrey X]

Somehow I don't believe that you're fluent in japanese, but I might be mistaken. That applied to PSO2, of course.

no, but I also don't flood the japanese chat channels with my native language.. or join japanese parties and just randomly start speaking english.

seems to be your opinion that that's totally fine, if I join a japanese party and just speak all english. as long as it doesnt apply to them, right?

because that's the exact same thing as joining an english party on an english server and refusing to speak anything but portuguese or spanish.

[Darki]

ok, now that's just silly. If you're in an english specific server and people are flooding the random chat channels with random languages...it's bigotry if I don't like it? dude, you don't know what that means.

So do you also get annoyed when the random chat channels are flooded with random conversations over furries, the last anime show, some people's opinions on classic Nintendo franchises, how they expect the new Pokemon X & Y to be, or whatever? I mean, in general, any conversation that has nothing to do with you and that you might not even fully understand because it involves a matter that is not one of your interests.

Because then, I don't understand you. A random chat channel is, as the name implies, "random". If you don't like what other people are talking, be it because of language or because of content, and you actually get annoyed at them for that, then you have a serious problem.

[BIG OLAF]

This guy is sure making a good entrance.

and, for the record, I personally wouldn't care/haven't cared when seeing groups of people speaking Spanish/French/German/whatever on other games I've played. Who cares? It's not hurting anyone.

[Darki]

no, but I also don't flood the japanese chat channels with my native language.. or join japanese parties and just randomly start speaking english

But you've joined a japanese server, knowing jack squat of japanese. That according to your book seems to be a great sin.


seems to be your opinion that that's totally fine, if I join a japanese party and just speak all english. as long as it doesnt apply to them, right?

Riiight. You seem to be explicitely ignoring all the parts where I talk about idle chat and that I wouldn't talk other languages when comunication is needed, but hey, whatever floats your goat. It's getting common in these forums that people make up shit, blame you for saying it and then complain about you for saying it.


because that's the exact same thing as joining an english party on an english server and refusing to speak anything but portuguese or spanish.

Good that I've mentioned many times that I would consider impolite doing that.


This guy is sure making a good entrance.

and, for the record, I personally wouldn't care/haven't cared when seeing groups of people speaking Spanish/French/German/whatever on other games I've played. Who cares? It's not hurting anyone.

Apparently it hurts the self-righteous ego of people like Joffrey.

[Zenobia]

Darki just bail man or its gonna be another Darki and Zipzo moment.

[Syklo]

Also, not sure if even relevant, but fun fact:

I'm chinese, but I don't know a lick of it. Grew up starting to use chinese, then hated it (at the time), learnt english instead.
Got tricked into enrolling into chinese school - didn't learn much, if anything.
Learning japanese since primary school and loving it!
tl;dr- I guess you could say I'm a heretic - I know quite well about being discriminated by ethnic background, to the extent of MERE APPEARANCE!

What Darki said is true though - on an international server in which English is the BASE/primary language, it shouldn't concern you at all if you see groups of other people speaking in their own language in "public" chat, unless you happen to be involved with those people.

Obviously you wouldn't blurt out English on a Japanese server because it's SERVICED FOR THE REGION THAT IS JAPAN - we as foreigners aren't technically welcome, whereas in the case of international servers, it's OUR server - us + those foreign to us, so we all have rights to speak in our native tongues.

[Joffrey X]

not all english servers are international... many are specifically serving usa/canada , just like PSO2 is serving japan. and those are the servers where I get pissed at people spamming chat channels and joining parties with just Portuguese, etc.

seems like you guys are giving japanese the right to be against foreign speakers, but in the case of an english server, we need to be totally accepting, lol.

[Darki]

What Darki said is true though - on an international server in which English is the BASE/primary language, it shouldn't concern you at all if you see groups of other people speaking in their own language in "public" chat, unless you happen to be involved with those people.

Obviously you wouldn't blurt out English on a Japanese server because it's SERVICED FOR THE REGION THAT IS JAPAN - we as foreigners aren't technically welcome, whereas in the case of international servers, it's OUR server - us + those foreign to us, so we all have rights to speak in our native tongues.

But it doesn't hurt to be polite, nor to not be annoyed when some random person speaks other languages in an entirely unrelated conversartion on main chat, even if the server is indeed regional. You can tell me in a respectful manner to speak english because you wanna participate in the conversation or just out of curiosity, and I'd be glad to do so, but if you do it in a rude manner just because it annoys you that other people dare to speak their dirty non-english languages in your presence, well, that's another story.


not all english servers are international... many are specifically serving usa/canada , just like PSO2 is serving japan. and those are the servers where I get pissed at people spamming chat channels and joining parties with just Portuguese, etc.

You know, it's just funny that apparently is so important for you to keep the main chat clean of other languages because ISZ TEH ENGLISH SERVARZ, but then when you go to any english servers the last thing you find on main chat are coherent conversations.

By the way, Canada? I hope you don't get annoyed at Quebec players "flooding" your so important main chat with french, since the server is also theirs. But something tells me that this would itch you as well.

[Syklo]

not all english servers are international... many are specifically serving usa/canada , just like PSO2 is serving japan. and those are the servers where I get pissed at people spamming chat channels and joining parties with just Portuguese, etc.

seems like you guys are giving japanese the right to be against foreign speakers, but in the case of an english server, we need to be totally accepting, lol.
Well I didn't say anything about non-international english servers did I?
That's a different matter, and I lack knowledge about the US so I can't say much for that.

But it doesn't hurt to be polite, nor to not be annoyed when some random person speaks other languages in an entirely unrelated conversartion on main chat.

Exactly, in fact, being polite as acquaintances is the only way not to be hurt (other than not contacting at all)

[Darki]

seems like you guys are giving japanese the right to be against foreign speakers, but in the case of an english server, we need to be totally accepting, lol.

I don't see where did anybody state such opinion. I don't like impolite japanese players, either. Politeness is unrelated to server region. Being an english speaker on english servers doesn't grant you the right to be an asshole to people speaking other languages, nor being a japanese speaker on japanese servers.

[martinmeegan]

not all english servers are international... many are specifically serving usa/canada , just like PSO2 is serving japan. and those are the servers where I get pissed at people spamming chat channels and joining parties with just Portuguese, etc.



What if people started speaking Navajo or in the case of Canada, French? Would you still get pissed then? I seriously don't see what the problem is. It's unlikely that they're talking about you and even if they were you can't understand them anyway so what's the big deal?

I'm not trying to have an argument, I just genuinely don't understand why anyone, be it Japanese speakers, english speakers, portugese speakers etc would get annoyed with someone for speaking a language that another doesn't understand.

[Joffrey X]

I think this whole conversation is an example of how language barriers can be so bad.

clearly I'm coming across to OP and other posters as being a racist or a bigot, when I just want to be able to be able to communicate with people I'm playing with.

fact is, I don't like it when people go to an english server and REFUSE to speak any english at all, or acknowledge the server theyre on.

other than that, I won't reply anymore because I'm clearly hurting peoples feelings. language issues=/= race or nationality issues though..

[reptile7383]

Guys! I heard some people speaking a different language at the restaurant I went to the other day! Don't they know that that restaurant is supposed to serve people in America. How dare they speak a different language! Don't they know that you have to speak American in this country?

And don't even get me started on Chinatown!

[Zenobia]

Guys! I heard some people speaking a different language at the restaurant I went to the other day! Don't they know that that restaurant is supposed to serve people in America. How dare they speak a different language! Don't they know that you have to speak American in this country?

And don't even get me started on Chinatown!

Cause it goes down in ChinaTown BABEH~!

[Syklo]

Cause it goes down in ChinaTown BABEH~!
Rush hour.

[Darki]

fact is, I don't like it when people go to an english server and REFUSE to speak any english at all, or acknowledge the server theyre on.

And ironically, he's on a japanese server and refuses to speak any japanese at all. I bet you're not getting japanese lessons at the moment.

[Rien]

There's an issue here. If you're talking about the Phantasy Star franchise, the problem is that the western servers are usually sold as US/EU servers. So I'm sorry to pop your wonderland bubble, but if the server is supposed to be international, there's no rule, official or even of "courtesy", that says that we should be speaking english.

Of course, english is a language known everywhere, but if I buy a game sold by SEGA in Spain, where I can connect and pay my services from Spain, which is sold as an international server and I don't need to do anything in any other language to get online, I will speak spanish whenever I want and I will play even if I know jack squat of english. And if you believe I am supposed to not to speak my own language in an international server, then I'd believe you're supposed to show some manners and learn some tolerance.

It's really unfortunate that many english-speakers are so selfish and self-centered as this, trying to impose their language to other players even when it's not neccesary or it has nothing to do with them. I still remember the many times I got the typical "go back to Mexico" (on top of impolite, retarded) comments while I was playing the western PSU servers, even when it was clear that I was chatting with a friend in the lobby and nobody should really give a shit about what we'd be chatting. Unless you're the typical soap-opera addicted old fart that needs to be aware of everybody's conversations, of course. Then I'd understand.

I'm talking about online game servers in general. I myself didn't play any of the (online) Phantasy Star games, save this one. Everywhere I did go indeed had, in the very least, a courtesy that we all spoke english.

Yet, the chat in most towns go like this:
"Pinoy?"
"BR?"

And when I say "No", they babble in their own language. More than once a player followed me because he was talking to me and I had no clue what he was saying.:-?

And, well, if the game goes to the length of translating everything into Spanish yet connecting you to other guys via an International Server, I'd be annoyed if you only spoke spanish, yes, but I wouldn't actively shoo you or anything.

[Joffrey X]

I'm talking about online game servers in general. I myself didn't play any of the (online) Phantasy Star games, save this one. Everywhere I did go indeed had, in the very least, a courtesy that we all spoke english.

Yet, the chat in most towns go like this:
"Pinoy?"
"BR?"

And when I say "No", they babble in their own language. More than once a player followed me because he was talking to me and I had no clue what he was saying.:-?

I hate that. lol

It's like if I asked someone on PSO2 if they spoke English, then they turned out to be Japanese... why would I keep speaking English at them!? lol


And ironically, he's on a japanese server and refuses to speak any japanese at all. I bet you're not getting japanese lessons at the moment.

You bet wrong, I've been taking Japanese for my language credit for 2+ years and I only use Japanese when speaking to Japanese players, I don't flood their chat channels with languages they don't know.

[Darki]

I'm talking about online game servers in general. I myself didn't play any of the (online) Phantasy Star games, save this one. Everywhere I did go indeed had, in the very least, a courtesy that we all spoke english.

Yet, the chat in most towns go like this:
"Pinoy?"
"BR?"

And when I say "No", they babble in their own language. More than once a player followed me because he was talking to me and I had no clue what he was saying.:-?

Well that I would consider impolite, indeed. But the issue here comes when someone gets annoyed when those "BR" guys are talking to themselves in their language and somebody else starts insulting them for it. You gotta agree with me that this sort of behavior is not really too nice even if the people insulting are in a server of their own language. =/


And, well, if the game goes to the length of translating everything into Spanish yet connecting you to other guys via an International Server, I'd be annoyed if you only spoke spanish, yes, but I wouldn't actively shoo you or anything.

You'd have to be annoyed at the developers then, for labelling the game as "international", not me for speaking a language that is indeed supported by the servers.

[Punisher106]

You know, Mekhana, you remind me of Leona from ********. You seem to be a VERY likable person, even with the whole Brazillian deal. I, personally, tolerate brazillians in general, just go about my game, but in my honest opinion, I feel like much of us are to the japanese community here as stereotypical brazillians are to english games. Understandably, we play foreign games mainly because it isn't available in our own area, yet, and with how SoA is treating us, we're not going to see any local release of this game any time soon. I normally try to keep quiet around japanese players, and try to show that I'm not some derpy foreigner that can't play the game right. I learn the ins and outs of everything alone, and then start to join up with others. I don't join JP parties. I run solo 95% of the time, unless there's people in my team that want me to join them or want to help. Hell, in a VH Ruins MPA, a JP player invited me to their party, knowing full and well that I was a foreigner. We had a great time, and he thanked me for my help. You just gotta treat them with the utmost respect.

[Darki]

You bet wrong, I've been taking Japanese for my language credit for 2+ years and I only use Japanese when speaking to Japanese players, I don't flood their chat channels with languages they don't know.

My apologies then.

Still don't really understand why is so important to you not to flood a chat channel with something in a foreign language when it's probably already flooded with many different unrelated conversations about random stuff, in many cases unsubstantial and even spammish in nature.

I'd rather have people speaking three languages in public chat than drawing ascii penises.

[Joffrey X]

I'd tather have people speaking three languages in public chat than drawing ascii penises.

well I can agree with that...lol

[Darki]

You just gotta treat them with the utmost respect.

The only real rule on this book. Respect.


well I can agree with that...lol

Then you gotta agree with me than public chats in western servers in any game are usually not too easy to use for any coherent conversation regardless of the language. <_< I mean that language itself to me seems like a minor issue compared to what is usually going on in public chats.

[Zenobia]

You know, Mekhana, you remind me of Leona from ********. You seem to be a VERY likable person, even with the whole Brazillian deal. I, personally, tolerate brazillians in general, just go about my game, but in my honest opinion, I feel like much of us are to the japanese community here as stereotypical brazillians are to english games. Understandably, we play foreign games mainly because it isn't available in our own area, yet, and with how SoA is treating us, we're not going to see any local release of this game any time soon. I normally try to keep quiet around japanese players, and try to show that I'm not some derpy foreigner that can't play the game right. I learn the ins and outs of everything alone, and then start to join up with others. I don't join JP parties. I run solo 95% of the time, unless there's people in my team that want me to join them or want to help. Hell, in a VH Ruins MPA, a JP player invited me to their party, knowing full and well that I was a foreigner. We had a great time, and he thanked me for my help. You just gotta treat them with the utmost respect.

Yo Ralku how Rei doing~?

Also yep Gotta gib respect to get etttt~!

[Renvalt]

Okay, I felt like adding my piece, since this thread was like a haymaker from the worst corner (AKA a total surprise).

First off, Mek, I had ZERO idea that you were a Brazilian. ZERO! You spoke English so well, that it never occurred to me to ask your ethnicity/nationality.

Secondly, apparently there's now this stereotype about Americans where we are only White or Black, and usually we tend to be either airheaded corporate-trend loving frogs (in the case of the white guy) or sleazy "bust-a-cap-in-yo-azz and smoke weed" gangstas (in the case of the black guy) - and these stereotypes are even felt throughout my own countrymen.

But America wasn't made like that. And it's not like that. We are a nation where EVERYONE'S allowed, regardless of your language, your creed, what god you worship, or who you love.

We were built as a nation of respect, so seeing these English speaking "Americans" (whether or not they ARE Americans I'll let them prove) going around preaching bigotry and this "imperialistic" sense of owning everything they touch just makes me feel the hate, which I then convert into anger - and if you've been on the other end of one of my anger filled rants, then you know how I get.

It's one thing if your hatred is justified, like someone backhanded you or something, but to hate just because X person is Y race or speaks Z language or likes X god or whatever, that REALLY grinds my gears.

In closing, I'd like to say this: anyone who is an American who speaks English who claims to be all nice and caring and then goes and pulls bigoted BS like the aforementioned "Klansmen" stereotype, you will earn no respect from me with your BS.

Extra: @Martinmeegan - You get bonus points for mentioning one of the most obscure languages in the world - although I took some away because you mentioned the most well-known of Native American languages. Would've offered you more if you decided to mention Cherokee or Seneca - hell, even Oneida would've been good, because I'm partial to the Iroquois, despite being a white man.

[Gama]

on my team we usualy speak in english so everyone in it understands, but for example in provate chat ill talk in portuguese if needed, or other players in their own language but in a general chat, we use english.

[Sizustar]

*Goes through topic*
That..is alot of...drama...
Not all Japanese are afraid or intolerant of foreigner, it's a vocal minority, the majority think it's fine, but would prefer if partying in AQ or MPA pr TACP pr EQ to be able to understand how to play it or able to follow simple command, such as no lightning on Faiz Eldar first phase, etc.
And public chat isn't used that often as normal chat unlike western server, it's mainly used to ask for party or for the various drama shows, most people use team chat or party chat, so it's odd for them to see people use public chat as a way to talk about some very private matter?
Askin you to move to B-20, is in some case, trying to possible help "lost" english player to get with their community, as B-20 is considered the English block, seeing people use that languge elsewhere, some might think their lost or in the wrong block.

[HeartBreak301]

Tyranids

Thank you.

[Z-0]

Punisher106 pretty much hit the nail on the head.

The reason Brazilians (or Portuguese, for that matter) play on "English" servers (which are, 99% of the time, international, believe it or not. While the game only operates in the English language, most of them will serve countries around the world because they want $$$) is simply because the game isn't released in their native language for them and only them.

It's like us on the Japanese server. Guess we'll go back to "our own country" with a game that isn't even released in the west.

The intolerance of Brazilians has always done my nut in, and I couldn't understand why. I've met plenty of really bad Brazilian players, but on the other hand, I've met plenty of good ones, who are respectful also. It's never a problem with the race or origin of said player, it's a problem with the person themselves.

Plus, (I don't know how Brazil works, so this is pretty much speculations) it could very well be that manner of what you call "impoliteness" is common in Brazil. I mean, it's liking talking in public chat on Japanese servers. The Japanese don't do it and find it impolite between themselves in their own language. However, we're suddenly there and talking in public super often (trust me, it happens all the time, I've been on B9~11 during Falz EQs and it's just gaijin, gaijin, gaijin), so that's probably why some Japanese might take "offense" at it.

It's just how different cultures work, that's all.

Note: Impolite might not be the right word, but I'm sure you can see the point I'm getting across, as I never see the Japanese speaking in public chat unless they're putting on a show in the lobbies, which is usually done in the lower-end lobbies anyway.

[Reia]

I've never had an experience with these so-called hyper-rude Brazilians, though I always hear stories about them. Is it really that bad, or are people overreacting?

It's not actually that. Is that Brazilians get discriminated so much that they are the most sensitive at this. Even a minor joke can lead to unleash their wrath upon you. And same time Brazilians tend to be the ones focusing more on fighting against discrimination due to this. On the other side MMOs is not exactly a hate that doesn't come without history. Such as PSO2 has a Ship-2 hatred for the english players inside there, while they see the ones outside more calm and less troublemakers is not a coincidence either. It's because everyone got a bad experience with them. Even my own people act like BRs and annoy you trying to beg you for money, stalking everywhere, then try to grief your gameplay if you dont give them what they want.

BRs are more popular because since they oftenly appear more in MMOs than most of the latin american players, other nation players dont even reach the size of a small guild while BRs online player numbers always surpass the hundreds.

But yeah tl:dr games that BR get discriminated a lot is because they are well known for having tons of beggers, grievers, gang-ganking PKers in the particular MMOs. And like the chinese for other asian use the language barrier to just kill and loot all your stuff without asking. So communities started to consider them as bad as an enemy faction in a faction war game where you just open fire first, ask later.

For me trying to side any of this players wether they come from is not doing something right, is like picking a faction in a war. BRs are clearly being attacked oftenly by english players but they aint exactly innocent woogies either.

In case you don't believe me, go to a japanese and tell them you are chinese. It will show how their so called "xenophobia" is more related to their experiences than your actual origin.

[reptile7383]

to just kill and loot all your stuff without asking.

Wait? Do people normally ask you if its alright to PK you :-P

[Kondibon]

Wait? Do people normally ask you if its alright to PK you :-P

I've had several duels in WvW on guild wars 2. A game where you can't even directly communicate with the other worlds language barrier or not. I do think there are certain expectations to be had. Reia is just talking about the stereotypes though, as far as I can tell..

[Reia]

Wait? Do people normally ask you if its alright to PK you :-P

In not all games PKing is something beneficial aside of grieving. Some games don't even give scores or reward for doing it and in fact is a disadvantage to do so, sometimes even punishings like bans are implied. But yeah this guys dont hold back when it comes to that. But then again, its hard to understand for people whose only MMO experience has been either WoW or WoW clones, that encourage killing other players for more spent hours of subscription or more money into the cash shops.

Then again, this talk can get even deeper. But Im afraid that Im not going to talk something 9/10 people won't understand because their too lazy to study history books. And probably stirring up a larger dispute that would lead me to a ban. So no thanks!

[reptile7383]

In not all games PKing is something beneficial aside of grieving. Some games don't even give scores or reward for doing it and in fact is a disadvantage to do so, sometimes even punishings like bans are implied. But yeah this guys dont hold back when it comes to that. But then again, its hard to understand for people whose only MMO experience has been either WoW or WoW clones, that encourage killing other players for more spent hours of subscription or more money into the cash shops.

Then again, this talk can get even deeper. But Im afraid that Im not going to talk something 9/10 people won't understand because their too lazy to study history books. And probably stirring up a larger dispute that would lead me to a ban. So no thanks!

Well if they are looting all your stuff, then there's something beneficial about killing you., but I just found it funny the way to phrased it. Its like being upset the the guy didn't ask your permission before kicking you in the groin.

Also what game threatens to ban pkers? That just sounds like poor design.

[Reia]

Well if they are looting all your stuff, then there's something beneficial about killing you., but I just found it funny the way to phrased it. Its like being upset the the guy didn't ask your permission before kicking you in the groin.

Also what game threatens to ban pkers? That just sounds like poor design.

It's not exactly an account ban, but GMs warped in the characters into jail until they felt like to. One little crime was tolerable for the game's lore but sometimes this was a security to prevent someone so no-life overtake the servers and start a reign of terror because he got the ability to grief and steal everyone's loot. Of course, PKers won't stand those actions and just ragequit in the end :3

And don't worry. Hearing about wanting to be murdered for humanity's greater good is what I hear everyday. Sadly you can't :3

[reptile7383]

It's not exactly an account ban, but GMs warped in the characters into jail until they felt like to. One little crime was tolerable for the game's lore but sometimes this was a security to prevent someone so no-life overtake the servers and start a reign of terror because he got the ability to grief and steal everyone's loot. Of course, PKers won't stand those actions and just ragequit in the end :3

And don't worry. Hearing about wanting to be murdered for humanity's greater good is what I hear everyday. Sadly you can't :3

SO like I said: poor design. If you don't want much PvPing in game, then you simply need a an in-code flag that prevents people who PKing too much from attacking other players, or something similar. GMs having to step in sounds to me like a poorly made game.

[Reia]

SO like I said: poor design. If you don't want much PvPing in game, then you simply need a an in-code flag that prevents people who PKing too much from attacking other players, or something similar. GMs having to step in sounds to me like a poorly made game.

inb4 "You PvE carebears go play PSO2 or something!".

Is not like games were designed like that from DAY ONE. The BR phenomenom occurred even many years before WoW even existed.

[reptile7383]

inb4 "You PvE carebears go play PSO2 or something!".

Is not like games were designed like that from DAY ONE. The BR phenomenom occurred even many years before WoW even existed.

Age doesn't matter. It requires very little programming to add what I said. An "if statement" to see if you can start combat, a variable to hold the number of times you pked in a certain amount of time, and a timer to reset everything.

Its literally more work to force your GMs to police everybody.

[Sizustar]

It's not actually that. Is that Brazilians get discriminated so much that they are the most sensitive at this. Even a minor joke can lead to unleash their wrath upon you. And same time Brazilians tend to be the ones focusing more on fighting against discrimination due to this. On the other side MMOs is not exactly a hate that doesn't come without history. Such as PSO2 has a Ship-2 hatred for the english players inside there, while they see the ones outside more calm and less troublemakers is not a coincidence either. It's because everyone got a bad experience with them. Even my own people act like BRs and annoy you trying to beg you for money, stalking everywhere, then try to grief your gameplay if you dont give them what they want.

BRs are more popular because since they oftenly appear more in MMOs than most of the latin american players, other nation players dont even reach the size of a small guild while BRs online player numbers always surpass the hundreds.

But yeah tl:dr games that BR get discriminated a lot is because they are well known for having tons of beggers, grievers, gang-ganking PKers in the particular MMOs. And like the chinese for other asian use the language barrier to just kill and loot all your stuff without asking. So communities started to consider them as bad as an enemy faction in a faction war game where you just open fire first, ask later.

For me trying to side any of this players wether they come from is not doing something right, is like picking a faction in a war. BRs are clearly being attacked oftenly by english players but they aint exactly innocent woogies either.

In case you don't believe me, go to a japanese and tell them you are chinese. It will show how their so called "xenophobia" is more related to their experiences than your actual origin.

Actually trying out Korean will get more result then Chinese, as Chinese can mean HK/TW, which they don't mind as much.

[Zenobia]

Damn this shit got deep as hell......

[Zipzo]

This type of conversation always perplexes me (probably because of my focal point) because the solution and/or explanation is quite simple.

On english speaking servers, it's not uncommon for those who are either poor or lacking in english to be ostracized and criticized. These players could possibly be making an effort to understand it better over time, but english can be quite difficult.

Role reversal here, a huge majority of the english speaking player base refuses or doesn't care to learn one iota of japanese. They learn what they have to in order to identify their items, and remember completely based on visual what each menu option is (that's assuming there's much left after you apply your english patch thing).

Then the english speaking players act like Japanese are being full of themselves when they get irritated or annoyed?

It's pure hypocrisy. You put japanese romaji in your auto-words, even copy paste traditional 平仮名 and 片仮名 in to your symbol chats and shortcuts, yet refuse to bother learning how to understand even the most basic of japanese commands when a japanese native speaks to you in the native language of the server?

Again...it's hilarious. It makes english speaking players look massively entitled and sheltered.

[Z-0]

It's just an observation of mine, but I find the english-speaking countries to be the most ignorant. I visited France last year, and the amount of people trying to get around by speaking just English was pretty silly. My French teacher also says she's seen ridiculous episodes in restaurants in Spain with people trying to get around speaking only English to the employees, yet the natives are apparently the problem when the English people are the foreigners there...

It's like, why are you there if you don't try to speak their language or at least try and get along without expecting them to change how they communicate? I'm not going to study Japanese (I have two languages I'm studying right now), but I've at least tried to get the basics down and even installed an IME to be able to communicate to some level.

There may be more ignorance elsewhere, but I haven't really seen it.

[Shadowth117]

It's just an observation of mine, but I find the english-speaking countries to be the most ignorant. I visited France last year, and the amount of people trying to get around by speaking just English was pretty silly. My French teacher also says she's seen ridiculous episodes in restaurants in Spain with people trying to get around speaking only English to the employees, yet the natives are apparently the problem when the English people are the foreigners there...

It's like, why are you there if you don't try to speak their language or at least try and get along without expecting them to change how they communicate? I'm not going to study Japanese (I have two languages I'm studying right now), but I've at least tried to get the basics down and even installed an IME to be able to communicate to some level.

There may be more ignorance elsewhere, but I haven't really seen it.

Of course you haven't seen it. You're a native English speaker aren't you? It would be difficult to view that sort of thing outside your own language.

English is one of the most widely spoken languages regardless of anything which does promote a sort of arrogance. But lets not be ignorant here, shall we? Lets talk about Spanish in the United States as an example.

Numerous people come here knowing nothing but Spanish, some very much illegally, and want to use that language everywhere. Now its not necessarily killing anyone, but the official language of the United States IS English. And yet we constantly have people who want to speak mainly Spanish. Its to the point where we even often have official United States texts in normal, government places that
have English and a Spanish subscript. Particularly so in southern states. So when you say "There may be more ignorance elsewhere, but I haven't really seen it.", I've certainly seen it and want others to know it happens. There may be a hell of a lot of arrogant English speakers, but its not as if their counterparts don't exist in other language communities.

Call me racist or whatever for pointing that out, but its true. I personally don't have a huge problem with it and I don't have issues with foreigners in general. It makes sense to me to support them to some degree. But its not as if we should ignore the fact that this is happening in other places.

[Zipzo]

Of course you haven't seen it. You're a native English speaker aren't you? It would be difficult to view that sort of thing outside your own language.

English is one of the most widely spoken languages regardless of anything which does promote a sort of arrogance. But lets not be ignorant here, shall we? Lets talk about Spanish in the United States as an example.

Numerous people come here knowing nothing but Spanish, some very much illegally, and want to use that language everywhere. Now its not necessarily killing anyone, but the official language of the United States IS English. And yet we constantly have people who want to speak mainly Spanish. Its to the point where we even often have official United States texts in normal, government places that
have English and a Spanish subscript. Particularly so in southern states. So when you say "There may be more ignorance elsewhere, but I haven't really seen it.", I've certainly seen it and want others to know it happens. There may be a hell of a lot of arrogant English speakers, but its not as if their counterparts don't exist in other language communities.

Call me racist or whatever for pointing that out, but its true. I personally don't have a huge problem with it and I don't have issues with foreigners in general. It makes sense to me to support them to some degree. But its not as if we should ignore the fact that this is happening in other places.

This was actually brought up in an argument a couple months back, and for your information and correction, the USA does not have an actual, declared official language. Though it's not debate-able that english is the most widely spoken language in that country, and it seems some individual states have taken the step to craft bills at the state-government level.

This is why websites/groups like this (http://www.us-english.org/) exist at all.

Also I think we should be referring only to Japanese natives in America, as that's what is most relevant to the discussion in regards to PSO2.

If you can point out a major community or number of Japanese natives in America who refuse to speak english or learn it at least at a basic level, please show me. The reason there is such a huge population of spanish speaking illegals in the USA is because you are right above them, and you are in a much better shape than their country, thus it is a "simple" choice for them to decide to want to go there, illegally or not. I don't think Mexican citizens are really relevant to the discussion of Japanese players being irritable towards English speaking players, because of this.

[Kondibon]

This type of conversation always perplexes me (probably because of my focal point) because the solution and/or explanation is quite simple.

On english speaking servers, it's not uncommon for those who are either poor or lacking in english to be ostracized and criticized. These players could possibly be making an effort to understand it better over time, but english can be quite difficult.

Role reversal here, a huge majority of the english speaking player base refuses or doesn't care to learn one iota of japanese. They learn what they have to in order to identify their items, and remember completely based on visual what each menu option is (that's assuming there's much left after you apply your english patch thing).

Then the english speaking players act like Japanese are being full of themselves when they get irritated or annoyed?

It's pure hypocrisy. You put japanese romaji in your auto-words, even copy paste traditional 平仮名 and 片仮名 in to your symbol chats and shortcuts, yet refuse to bother learning how to understand even the most basic of japanese commands when a japanese native speaks to you in the native language of the server?

Again...it's hilarious. It makes english speaking players look massively entitled and sheltered.
This is something I noticed as well. I think it comes down to english being such a widely learned language that english speakers are used to people in other countries speaking english to some degree. It gets to the point where I've seen two people who use english instead of one of their own languages.

I meet quite a few people who have english as a second or third language. English might not be the official language in the states, but it's still one of the most used and because the place is so big one doesn't have things like a country right next door that has a different language.

Long story short, the cause is a lack of exposure to other languages. More people are exposed to english than english speakers are to other languages, especially in the states. The most common languages I see are english>spanish>french in that order. ;;

I'm not trying to justify it. I just think that to solve a problem you have to look at the source. In this case english being the primarily used language in the US with very little exposure to other languages.

[Darki]

That is something that, since I started playing MMOs and got harrassed occasionally for speaking Spanish in public, got me really flabbergasted. Here in Spain, which mind you, we're not that awesome in terms of education compared to other countries in Europe, other languages are almost a requirement for most jobs (if not a requirement, I can assure you that in a tie the one knowing more languages will be picked before). In all schools, we start learning English at elementary school, and at least in my institute, we had to choose a second language (French in my case, but we could choose between that, German and Chinese). In areas closed to the border to France or Portugal, having their language in schools is almost a requirement as well, along with English... And that not to mention that some areas have their own language within spain that is spoken along with Spanish.

As I said, Spain, from what I gather, is not even a good country to look about education, but here it's more usual to speak with turists in their language, unless they come from uncommon places. No matter where you're from you probably know english, chinese, french, german, portuguese or arabian, and these languages are not that uncommon to learn here without looking too hard for a language school (which makes sense since we get so much inmigration, I suppose teaching languages is a good option for an inmigrant).

I assume the problem in the US is simply that is too big, too important, and too isolated to acquire the mentality that you can find in Europe concerning other cultures.

[reptile7383]

I somewhat disagree Darki. Its not that Americans don't get exposed to other cultures, its that we don't get exposed to cultures outside of America. America is as big as Europe and probably has as many different cultures of Europe. We are exposed to plenty of different cultures, just not cultures that we can't communicate with :-P

[Zipzo]

I somewhat disagree Darki. Its not that Americans don't get exposed to other cultures, its that we don't get exposed to cultures outside of America. America is as big as Europe and probably has as many different cultures of Europe. We are exposed to plenty of different cultures, just not cultures that we can't communicate with :-P

There's a difference between it existing, and it being around you like a swarm though. An American can choose to never socialize or interact much less choose to respect these different cultures. These are the kinds of people were all discussing. I don't think anyone would make the mistake of saying every single American no matter their upbringing is an ignorant twit.

[Joffrey X]

This type of conversation always perplexes me (probably because of my focal point) because the solution and/or explanation is quite simple.

On english speaking servers, it's not uncommon for those who are either poor or lacking in english to be ostracized and criticized. These players could possibly be making an effort to understand it better over time, but english can be quite difficult.

Role reversal here, a huge majority of the english speaking player base refuses or doesn't care to learn one iota of japanese. They learn what they have to in order to identify their items, and remember completely based on visual what each menu option is (that's assuming there's much left after you apply your english patch thing).

Then the english speaking players act like Japanese are being full of themselves when they get irritated or annoyed?

It's pure hypocrisy. You put japanese romaji in your auto-words, even copy paste traditional 平仮名 and 片仮名 in to your symbol chats and shortcuts, yet refuse to bother learning how to understand even the most basic of japanese commands when a japanese native speaks to you in the native language of the server?

Again...it's hilarious. It makes english speaking players look massively entitled and sheltered.

I haven't really experienced anyone disrespecting the Japanese

even the most random, stupid English players usually act respectful; while I make fun of them, they do keep their crap separate in block 20, which is commendable

9 times out of 10, whenever I have seen an English player outside of block 20, he was making an effort to use at least simple Japanese words

as for whether it's hypocritcal, how much people are going to get ostracized for language barriers really differs from game to game...

Language barriers don't matter so much on PSO2 because the game is so easy that it can be played by babies. Im confident that if you got a bunch of babies, gave them a controller, they could conquer any AQ, EQ, or content this game has to offer.

so communication doesn't really matter. on certain games I see the foreign speakers being outcast more because it's simply impossible to get things done unless everyone understands eachother perfectly.

[reptile7383]

There's a difference between it existing, and it being around you like a swarm though. An American can choose to never socialize or interact much less choose to respect these different cultures. These are the kinds of people were all discussing. I don't think anyone would make the mistake of saying every single American no matter their upbringing is an ignorant twit.

Its very hard to not interact with different cultures. I can drive 50 miles and encounter a completely different group of people. I get culture shock just from visting my Aunt in the hills (Redneck country). If you travel a few states over you will likely be in a group that have vastly different views and customs. You WILL be forced to deal with other cultures in America, the main difference that I'm trying to point out is that we aren't forced to learn in new language to communicate.

[SolRiver]

MMo behavior is akin to middle school kid behavior.

Kids want to try out all the bad stuff they learned on someone who can't talk back or report them.

Unfortunately, a ton of adults still behave like middle school kids... Really wonder where the cycle start from.

The current generation might learn how to treat other culture with respect, but their children will immediately do the same shit again in their middle school. So... w/e.

[Joffrey X]

kids being kids

how dare they

how DARE they


I dunno what's up with the adults acting like little kiddos though for real. when I hear man-babies rage on xbl I can't help but laugh.

[Zaven]

The only people i played with for more than one quest were japanese players and we were only communicating by emote. A simple "i'm ready" emote and /sit near the quest counter could give them whatever message i needed to send.
After an hour i started to copy past "thanks" and "again, again" or "hard mode hard mode" and they were answering "yeah" in japanese.
On hour later i told them "I live in Paris" and they were like what the fuck.
Little by little one of them started to use google translate too, to try to communicate more and it was very difficult to say the simplest things but we had fun doing it.

All this fag anecdote just to say that when you'r discret in the first place, and you just show that you are a cooperative good-spirited player, people start to enjoy your presence whatever your language is. You don't need to talk. I know they are a lots of LoL players among you and the initiator of this thread is, and sometimes ya know, you don't even wanna say a word. You just start to play and you communicate by other means. A simple " : ) " or " ^^; " when you screw up and you'r on board.

Of course to do this kinda crap when you act like a retarded person for two hours, having to wait for them to talk about their own matters in a language you don't understand while you spam alt+R to show that you'r ready and actually getting bored, all of this is only doable if you'r in a "i take what i can get" state of mind.

One more thing though, and i hope the initiator of the topic will appreciate this if he felt this way before. It is also NICE not to be able to speak as much as you would want to. Hence my anecdote with those two very nice guys that may have behave differently otherwise. When you don't talk, your actions speak for you. And it is something that is very nice to pull off, and again i'll come to LoL where you sometimes communicate just by your actions, and you don't need to chat at all. It is "rewarding". Way more than acting violent (in words of course).

[NightfallG]

I inadvertently played with a JP player. We took down a Ragne together. It was fun and we just gave thanks via emotes.

I didn't really feel like a BR at all.

[EvilMag]

JP players usually send me friend requests.

A lot of them uses my NPC. A lot.

[gravityvx]

Hello everyone, long time MMORPG player and Brazilian to boot. Fortunately unlike some of my countrymen I'm fluent in English so we can have a pleasant conversation in this thread. This is purely the means to get your opinions on this important subject.

I see a lot of players making complaints about the Japanese players of how they treat westerners. How they disapprove of people speaking English in lobbies and parties, how they kick anyone with a western style name instantly from their parties, demand region blocks and general traits of classical xenophobia in MMOs.

Meanwhile at the same time this has caused some animosity towards Japanese players from the western players, I have see a few people in block 20 yelling in English for the Japanese to get out of 'their' block. Very typical.

This a classical case when two cultures clash in a MMO. I have been on both sides of the fence before except this time around I can't communicate with the natives unlike the other MMOs I've played before and am unable to act as a middleman this time around.

Be very glad PSO2 is not a pvp centric game, then you would find out what xenophobia is really all about in MMOs. I have some lulz worthy stories about Brazilian tactics to 'take over' servers normally after players or top guilds make inflammatory remarks about Brazilians. Then the Brazilian Swarm follows making the Zerg and the Tyranids look like pre-teen schoolgirls. Think about a place like /v/ except people work towards common goals.

It would be fun if westerners pulled something out like this in a Japanese server. I would take part in it and it would be glorious.

Anyways so next time you see a player in your game, may he be from Brazil or any other country that doesn't speak your language try to be a little more understanding of him. Sure there are bad players but that goes for both sides, a lot of players that claim to be Brazilians in games like League of Legends are actually trolls. We have own server now and got no reason to play with you anymore, unless we happen to have American friends that is (this is my case.)

Because let me tell you something, Japanese players treat you like esteemed guests compared to I have witnessed as a Brazilian in MMOs, I can mask my presence somewhat due to my understanding of English but I have seen for years how non speakers get treated in english speaking games and it's far worse.

Let's fight against xenophobia together. Let the love for our game guide us towards that goal.

-Mekh

Checked out this thread kinda late, but I don't feel like a BR in this game at all, so far all the JPs I have met have been pretty awesome. The way I've seen BRs treated is ridiculous, league of legends(although in this game communication is huge so I myself can't stand when players speak another language the whole match)...and good lord, tera. If you ever play tera and you're a BR, youre in for a rough ride. But it seems BR in particular has become the butt of eveyones joke as of late, those two games in particular are the harshest I've seen though. That said, if you expect to play a game that requires much communication like league of legends I would expect people to speak my language on the NA server, but I don't go raging about it if they can't(shiny baron icon is proof of that).

But at the same time that gives the less rational player to start flaming you and it would be somewhat justified(while still stupid) if you're not communicating or just doing really bad and not communicating(this is usually the case from my personal experience). But putting down every single BR over one or two bad ones you've run in to is stupid, the same goes for any culture. But yeah, I'm not going to give anyone special treatment since I treat everyone the same regardless of where they are from, they get the same respect they give me.

[NightfallG]

Really, being bad at League isn't exclusive to Brazil. At all. In fact, I attribute that game's toxicity to the Dunning-Kruger Effect that nearly the entire god damn community seems to have.

[Zipzo]

Really, being bad at League isn't exclusive to Brazil. At all. In fact, I attribute that game's toxicity to the Dunning-Kruger Effect that nearly the entire god damn community seems to have.

You mean...

http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/1211162.jpg

[NightfallG]

You mean...

http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/1211162.jpg

I don't mean a broken image that redirects back to memecreator.org's frontpage.

(Put it on imgur)

[Mekhana]

Thanks for your input everyone I'm very satisfied with the clear headedness, maturity and worldly insight of this community (most of you anyways), makes me feel bad about not registering here back in my Blue Burst days. I was a sheep at the SEGA forums, don't ask me why.

As a polyglot and self taught linguist it is very difficult for me to find someone I can not communicate with, even on a basic level. As a former active world traveler you eventually learn a few tools of the trade to get by when language is a problem.

The same applies to MMOs. There have been cases over the years that I was not able to communicate with other people although rarely. Have you ever watched old cartoon or movies the explorer is trying to to engage in diplomacy with the natives/tribesmen as he clumsily makes hand signs, sounds and makes up words as he goes along?

I had to get by that way in MMOs before. As a scholar I must admit I find this kind of exchange among people seriously fascinating. I became so close to this Asian player once we had developed our own language based on emoticons when we hunted bosses back in the good old Ragnarok Online days when MMOs were innocent and fresh.

Someone's language or nationality does not interfere in one's ability to be capable of accomplishing a task. And let's admit here, MMOs are not that much complex to begin with. All language barriers can be broken by sheer observation of the reactions of your team mates and enemies and generally the game provides further tools so that no text or voice exchange is necessary to communicate to save time and improve team response.

So players have joined your party. How many times have you been in this dungeon again? The 10th this week? You can safely assume the others have been around the block as much as you have or perhaps even more. You don't need to tell Player X to be X or Player Z to be Z because you can safely assume everyone knows their roles.

Dungeons over, everyone grabs their loot and leaves. Guess what? All the party members are from different countries and speak different languages and yet everything went smoothly. As Mathematics is an universal language so is gaming. You put a problem before a good player and he will solve it, no matter what language he speaks.

If it's the first time a player faces the problem he will likely observe others doing it first. By taking a step back and having a quiet moment of observation he should have figured out the problem. Of course I'll be realistic here and say this would be a perfect scenario. I won't say it doesn't happen because I've seen enough to know it does but I won't pretend like there aren't players that just bang their heads on their keyboard until the party is over.

We're all busy people, sometimes we just want to get it over as quickly as possible. Having to explain mechanics to someone in your own language can be a chore but to explain them to someone that doesn't seem to understand a word you say is a complete nightmare.

I fully understand how precious your patience is and all we hardcore MMO players have something in common I believe: we all hate BAD players (Yes, the kind that will always stay bad no matter how long they play the game for.) I'll outright block them if I can so I don't have to deal with them again and call me a bitter veteran or just veteran but I posses a quite capable sonar for these kind of players.

The point of the story is that barriers (in this case a language barrier) between people make the problem worse than it already is, so it is natural you are going to have more problems dealing with people. Wars have started over this. However it is quite small minded of you to stereotype and classify people on anything else other than on how capable they are of playing the game.

Many of you did not even know I was Brazilian until I revealed myself. The usual reactions I get are "You are not really Brazilian, you are just trolling us." or people rudely asking me to leave when I'm usually better at playing their game and speaking their own language (let's admit these kind of players are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.) This goes to everyone, not just Brazilians.

We're all gamers and we all love video games. You are ruining your own fun and game play experience by raising unnecessary divisions between fellow players. Let's be more tolerable of each other, shall we?

[Rawr]

I have never felt like I was disrespected once by a Japanese player just because I am a western player. Then again I also never speak outside of party chat, nor do I play with any other players regardless of nationality (so even other western players I avoid) aside from friends I've invited to the game (I play like that on every online game though). The only way they'd be able to tell I am a Western player is from my name, but even then some Japanese players have english names too.

It has never bothered me once on any game though when anyone else was saying things in their native tongue - they are simply playing the game just as I am. As a player who tends to either run solo or play with people I know, I never have once run into any 'communication issues'.

Not to mention I think in a game like PSO2 where it is relatively straightforward in what you have to do - what communication issues can really arise? When a Japanese player dies in a multiparty fight against Falz for example I'll res them - and if I die they usually do the same for me. There isn't much to understand there other than "hey I see someone is dead let's go bring them back to life". It's also relatively easy to converse with other players in multiparty areas as well just by using the grid co-ordinates for the map to signal to other players that that is where you are. The only thing is I can't really make friends with anyone but that has never been a high priority for me anyway because I tend to play with only people I know.

Spam sucks in any language so really that's more of something to get pissed off about than anything else. I am just glad we're all still allowed to play on the JP servers and that so far my experience has been a welcoming one, even if words are never exchanged due to my style of play. I have no idea if playing on Ship 10 helps or not but it's been really nice.

[Darki]

I haven't been actively harrassed by japanese players, but I've experienced many times the situation where people would suddenly flee the MPA I was in after someone said anything in english (or any other language than japanese, I guess).

To be honest, I don't really understand that attitude. Quite childish and inmature if you ask me. I've seen many japanese MPAs that were closed to foreigners with a kanji pass (making it extremely difficult for a non-japanese player to access it) and with a "nihon onri" comment, which is pretty straightforward. But if you make a free MPA and then leave it when someone says "Hi", it seems pretty retarded to me. Of course they're free to do so, but then, I'm also free to think that they're acting very inmature. Kinda sucks with the elitist attitude that many japanese tend to take on gaming.

[jooozek]

so instead of being childish they should be straight forward xenophobic?

[reptile7383]

so instead of being childish they should be straight forward xenophobic?

Its kinda like talking about people behind their back, I think. If you are going to be a jerk and do that, then you should at least be brave enough to say it to the persons face.

[jooozek]

Its kinda like talking about people behind their back, I think. If you are going to be a jerk and do that, then you should at least be brave enough to say it to the persons face.

you mean like the people who say "I'm just saying what I think" and spouting whatever irrational bullshit comes on their tongue?
to me it seems like a masochistic request


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8RHxv0bxzo

[Zipzo]

Thanks for your input everyone I'm very satisfied with the clear headedness, maturity and worldly insight of this community (most of you anyways), makes me feel bad about not registering here back in my Blue Burst days. I was a sheep at the SEGA forums, don't ask me why.

As a polyglot and self taught linguist it is very difficult for me to find someone I can not communicate with, even on a basic level. As a former active world traveler you eventually learn a few tools of the trade to get by when language is a problem.

The same applies to MMOs. There have been cases over the years that I was not able to communicate with other people although rarely. Have you ever watched old cartoon or movies the explorer is trying to to engage in diplomacy with the natives/tribesmen as he clumsily makes hand signs, sounds and makes up words as he goes along?

I had to get by that way in MMOs before. As a scholar I must admit I find this kind of exchange among people seriously fascinating. I became so close to this Asian player once we had developed our own language based on emoticons when we hunted bosses back in the good old Ragnarok Online days when MMOs were innocent and fresh.

Someone's language or nationality does not interfere in one's ability to be capable of accomplishing a task. And let's admit here, MMOs are not that much complex to begin with. All language barriers can be broken by sheer observation of the reactions of your team mates and enemies and generally the game provides further tools so that no text or voice exchange is necessary to communicate to save time and improve team response.

So players have joined your party. How many times have you been in this dungeon again? The 10th this week? You can safely assume the others have been around the block as much as you have or perhaps even more. You don't need to tell Player X to be X or Player Z to be Z because you can safely assume everyone knows their roles.

Dungeons over, everyone grabs their loot and leaves. Guess what? All the party members are from different countries and speak different languages and yet everything went smoothly. As Mathematics is an universal language so is gaming. You put a problem before a good player and he will solve it, no matter what language he speaks.

If it's the first time a player faces the problem he will likely observe others doing it first. By taking a step back and having a quiet moment of observation he should have figured out the problem. Of course I'll be realistic here and say this would be a perfect scenario. I won't say it doesn't happen because I've seen enough to know it does but I won't pretend like there aren't players that just bang their heads on their keyboard until the party is over.

We're all busy people, sometimes we just want to get it over as quickly as possible. Having to explain mechanics to someone in your own language can be a chore but to explain them to someone that doesn't seem to understand a word you say is a complete nightmare.

I fully understand how precious your patience is and all we hardcore MMO players have something in common I believe: we all hate BAD players (Yes, the kind that will always stay bad no matter how long they play the game for.) I'll outright block them if I can so I don't have to deal with them again and call me a bitter veteran or just veteran but I posses a quite capable sonar for these kind of players.

The point of the story is that barriers (in this case a language barrier) between people make the problem worse than it already is, so it is natural you are going to have more problems dealing with people. Wars have started over this. However it is quite small minded of you to stereotype and classify people on anything else other than on how capable they are of playing the game.

Many of you did not even know I was Brazilian until I revealed myself. The usual reactions I get are "You are not really Brazilian, you are just trolling us." or people rudely asking me to leave when I'm usually better at playing their game and speaking their own language (let's admit these kind of players are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.) This goes to everyone, not just Brazilians.

We're all gamers and we all love video games. You are ruining your own fun and game play experience by raising unnecessary divisions between fellow players. Let's be more tolerable of each other, shall we?

Your quest for world peace will fail, unfortunately lol.

[Eternal255]

Wow. I havent read all 11 or so pages of this, but simply reading the first few posts make me glad I didnt join ship 2.

I'd even been considering changing over simply so that i can have more people to play with, but considering how much hate is given towards english players there, i doubt i will. My ship seems to be rather neutral towards non-japanese players. Although most of us tend to play in secrecy, which I honestly find kind of fun to do.

I've played a few games with JP players, but i usually use some common phrases to communicate, and never really say much more than hi and thank you/see you later or something xD

Would be nice though, to be able to run AQ more regularly :(

[Zipzo]

Wow. I havent read all 11 or so pages of this, but simply reading the first few posts make me glad I didnt join ship 2.

I'd even been considering changing over simply so that i can have more people to play with, but considering how much hate is given towards english players there, i doubt i will. My ship seems to be rather neutral towards non-japanese players. Although most of us tend to play in secrecy, which I honestly find kind of fun to do.

I've played a few games with JP players, but i usually use some common phrases to communicate, and never really say much more than hi and thank you/see you later or something xD

Would be nice though, to be able to run AQ more regularly :(

The answer to your problem is joining a team, not going to ship 2.

[Eternal255]

The answer to your problem is joining a team, not going to ship 2.

I am in a team. its the largest english speaking team on the ship (50+ people). Still hard to find people to aq with though. Unfortunately most of them are not westerners, just people who speak english from around the world. Most of the US people i used to play with on this ship stopped playing or something.

I like this team and all, its just that theyre all GMT +7 while im GMT -8, so obviously we're online at different times. I considered hopping over to ship 2, at least for a while then move back to mine, but i donno if i really want to anymore xD

[reptile7383]

Theres is nothing wrong with ship 2. The xenophobia is always greatly exaggerated. Its very rare.

[Darki]

so instead of being childish they should be straight forward xenophobic?

Why not just being nice? Is not that difficult. It even takes less effort than being an asshole in the situation I was stating. You don't need to assume that the "baka gajins" that joined your MPA are a bunch of n00bs, just carry on and leave only if they do suck, which can't be the 100% of the time (statistics, bitch). And anyways, not like MPAs required that much strategy, it's just running in circles occasionally mashing the attack + PA button.

What cracks me up in a way that borders the xenophobic, is how some japanese players tend to act in Falz Elder runs. I've lost the count of times where some retard with a japanese name (can't be a gajin all the time, statistics again) starts dealing massive damage/shocking/putting WBs in the wrong place constantly and absolutely ignoring any request/demand for them to stop. I've tried nice, I've tried mean, I've tried Falz strategy Symbol Arts, but to no avail. My only take on the matter is that they just can't be caught being lectured by a "baka gajin". They prefer to fuck the run before doing what any of us says because "they know better".

Of course this happens with western players too, I'm not implying otherwise, but experience tells me that if you tell a westerner to "stop hitting falz you asshole", you'd probably get an equaly "colorful" response, or an apology. The ones who ignore you and keep on full retard while silent are usually the japanese players.