Ultimate Mode.

[Kraiseson]

Theres a part of me that thinks the level requirement for Ulti just might be 60.
Not released in the patch tonight, but just in the future.
Initially I had thought that it was going to be 80, and the overall levels were going to go as high as 200. But lately I've been rethinking all that.
As opposed to my idea that 200 would be endgame, I'm starting to think it would be alot closer to 100. I mean.. they would have us grind to 200 on 2 classes just to finally reach an endgame on a character.. Dang. Makes more sense that having 2 classes, a main and a sub level 100 would be somewhat of an equivalent. Especially with how the scaling is becoming for grinding anyway.

So, With that in mind, I'm starting to think that the Level requirement for Ultimate might just be 60.
Soo we praying for Ultimate anytime soon ?

What do you think? What level?
60? 70? 80?

Max level? 100? 200?

[Requiem Aeternam]

If I was to guess I'd say the level cap is 100 and the Ultimate difficulty would be unlocked at Lv80. I also think they might add another difficulty before Ultimate (Super Hard like in PSZero maybe) which would be unlocked at Lv60.

[BlueCast Boy]

Well I'm pretty sure that Ultimate mode will be come soon I think its about lv 61-80 or higher or Koffies client order might be unforgiving challenging and PA lv will be at 15-20...
But I hope that lv100 is'nt the max lv.

[Sp-24]

I'm more leaning towards lv.60 being the requirement as well. They can drag the level cap extensions for a year before it even reaches 80, and with their update speeds (the way they update with actual content, not girl clothes and weapon recolors), I doubt they can keep dishing out areas for the whole duration. And a whole new difficulty is a good excuse to not add anything substantial for some time.

[Ce'Nedra]

Getting 1 char 6x to level 100 (all classes, level 600 total technically) takes a very long time though. Not to mention if you got multiple chars like me. Getting 1 char 6x to level 200 is a joke if you ask me, so I think 100 will be the max too. Then again seeing this game is more of a MMO then the previous PS games it won't surprise me if 200 is the cap again.

Considering there were like 4-5 difficulties ABOVE Very Hard data mined I think Ultimate might be the next at 60, or at 80 and we get a other difficulty in between VH and Ult.

[BlueCast Boy]

But then again I think lv41~55 might Next LV EXP might be reduced to make it easier to lv on the future.

[oratank]

extreme quest come next
no ultimate yet
in pso1 it take about lv120 for u can solo in ultimate

[Sp-24]

Yes, but then again, this isn't PSO1.

[Joffrey X]

It should be close to max level in my opinion.

They better make AI faster and more aggressive for the future modes.

[Reia]

It should be close to max level in my opinion.

They better make AI faster and more aggressive for the future modes.

That's what always bugged me from PSO2. In PSO1 the moment you increased the difficulty wasnt just the stats but also the attack and moving speed. As far as I remember, hard was 150%, Vhard 200% and Ult was 300%.

[Joffrey X]

Same here. Very Hard enemies have the same AI as the monsters you fight when you step into the game and learn the controls with Afin. Oooh, scary

[Golto]

I thought I read that the data unit it uses for difficulty has room for 8 difficulties. This doesn't mean they will use all 8 though. But if they did end with 8 difficulties I would expect a lvl 200 end cap.

[Zyrusticae]

I personally suspect a level 100 cap as well. Subclassing effectively doubles the actual level cap anyways.

extreme quest come next
no ultimate yet
in pso1 it take about lv120 for u can solo in ultimate
Well, considering the trend in PSO2 is basically to divide everything in levels by 2 due to subclasses, then a level 60 ultimate mode would make a lot of sense here.

Same here. Very Hard enemies have the same AI as the monsters you fight when you step into the game and learn the controls with Afin. Oooh, scary
No, they don't.

You might not have noticed because it's only something like a 200% increase in aggressiveness versus their normal versions and they still die really quickly, but there is a definite difference (and odds are you haven't touched normal mode in an eternity to be able to tell the difference anyways).

[Shadowth117]

Same here. Very Hard enemies have the same AI as the monsters you fight when you step into the game and learn the controls with Afin. Oooh, scary

For a great example of how they change, go fight Quartz Dragon on normal. Go fight him again on very hard. Go fight him in an AQ. The difference between him in normal and very hard may be minimal, but if you don't see how much he changes for Advance Quest than I'd love to know what you're smoking lol.

[Dnd]

Same here. Very Hard enemies have the same AI as the monsters you fight when you step into the game and learn the controls with Afin. Oooh, scary

diggs cant hurt you in normal, at all, even when you sit down.
diggs in VH, and especially AQ diggs will gangrape you, even given a second to attack, you most likely don't see it because they get AoE cluster-fucked down in 2-3 seconds, but try one solo, and you'll notice as melee anyway.

This is just diggs aswell, bosses are far far more noticeable and i cant wait for ultimate...

I can only imagine ultimate modes going to be super aggressive, and ill be sitting here with popcorn when all the whining threads will happen. It'll be fun

[Vashyron]

Pssh, adding Ultimate would mean they would have to at least attempt on remodels of the current enemies to not disappoint all the players expecting that old tradition. Quite some work there.


I thought I read that the data unit it uses for difficulty has room for 8 difficulties.

Yep, info from the Closed Beta.


EDIT: Oh, hi. Turns out there are 8 difficulties planned right now. Unfortunately, anything above Very Hard (arguably, Very Hard also, considering how the gap doesn't fit in) is very much WIP! For reference, the ones above Very Hard currently list the following stats on all missions:
1: Requires 60+, monsters level 50+
2: Requires 80+, monsters level 75+
3: Requires 105+, monsters level 100+
4: Requires 170+, monsters level 150+
5: Requires 190+, monsters level 200+If you want to compare to other unreleased Closed Beta difficulty requirements, assigned to specific missions:
[spoiler-box]Subdue Za Oodan:
Hard: Requires level 15, enemies level 21+
Very Hard: Requires level 35, enemies level 41+

Subdue Fongulf:
Hard: Requires level 15, enemies level 22+
Very Hard: Requires level 35, enemies level 42+

Dagan Extermination: Forest:
Hard: Requires level 15, enemies level 22+
Very Hard: Requires level 35, enemies level 42+

Capture Nab Rappy:
Hard: Requires level 15, enemies level 23+
Very Hard: Requires level 35, enemies level 43+

Dragonkin Ecological Survey:
Hard: Requires level 20, enemies level 25+
Very Hard: Requires level 40, enemies level 42+

Kartargot Extermination:
Hard: Requires level 20, enemies level 26+
Very Hard: Requires level 40, enemies level 43+

Subdue Caterdra'n:
Hard: Requires level 20, enemies level 27+
Very Hard: Requires level 40, enemies level 43+

Dragonkin Ecological Survey:
Hard: Requires level 20, enemies level 25+
Very Hard: Requires level 40, enemies level 42+

Forest Exploration:
Hard: Requires level 15, enemies level 21+
Very Hard: Requires level 35, enemies level 41+

Volcanic Cave Exploration:
Hard: Requires level 20, enemies level 25+
Very Hard: Requires level 35, enemies level 42+[/spoiler-box]

[TehblackUchiha]

AQ enemies have a substantial boost in aggression, i noticed gorongos's roll nonstop, (not sure if it was always like this) diggs don't flinch, quarts attacks are a bit faster, etc. I hope ultimate does boost the agression even further and a great speed boost is given.

[UnLucky]

Mobs are relatively more aggressive, but they're still not aggressive. Everything still dies instantly, even in AQs.

I want more constant melee oneshots while I sit back and range spam things to death as always. They can't call it Ultimate mode because there won't be any new enemy types or remodels.

[Walkure]

Problem is that trash mobs take the time to do a taunt or something before actually attacking most of the time. Doesn't matter how aggressive an Oodan is if it dies in an Over End, and takes the time of an Over End to thump its chest at me before even thinking to do a tackle or swipe.

[gravityvx]

diggs cant hurt you in normal, at all, even when you sit down.
diggs in VH, and especially AQ diggs will gangrape you, even given a second to attack, you most likely don't see it because they get AoE cluster-fucked down in 2-3 seconds, but try one solo, and you'll notice as melee anyway.

This is just diggs aswell, bosses are far far more noticeable and i cant wait for ultimate...

I can only imagine ultimate modes going to be super aggressive, and ill be sitting here with popcorn when all the whining threads will happen. It'll be fun

I've soloed caves AQ a few times on my fighter, diggs still get staggered & tossed into uselessness just like in every other mode. If anything the enemies with ranged are the only ones ever putting up a fight, until they get staggered/knocked up. Enemies are a little harder to deal with solo if you're melee doing AQ, I will give you that...as for being more agressive, meh of course they are going to attack you, you're solo. But with that said, I feel like one of the only really agressive trash mobs are those fish darkers & midget dinians on FC, good god those are annoying.

The main issue is being in a party environment and everything just melts like a knife to hot butter with little to no effort.

[Smithee]

I was originally hoping for 300 but after playing the game for a bit I'm thinking 150. It's very possible that as more levels release they'll make it easier and easier slowly. This game needs levels to thrive It's a social/collect/Leveling MMO it doesn't have features like PvP. I mean while yes people may spend hundred of hours looking for a demolition comet or a Dragon slayer. They'll find them eventually and then what? Farm excubes? Boring.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

In this game enemy speed and aggression is level based, not difficulty based.

Tgere's a very clear difference between bosses especially as their levels increase. this is especially apparent in AQs.

Re: next difficulty at lvl 60

...duh? It's increments of 20 and there's data for at least 7 difficulty settings. we're at 3.

Things will slowly get there. This isn't a complete product like PSO1, so we can't compare them like that. This game is always in development with no real endgame as of yet. It's silly to get upset about the difficulty when we haven't even gotten to a level cap that would allow us INTO Ult.

[Shinamori]

If they do go to like 200, I'd think they'd have to rework the exp tables, or it will take FOREVER to reach. In PSO, I got to like lv 120 in about 10-20 hours.

Looking at the EXP charts, you'd need about a total of 13,395,000 exp for level 55. Probably gonna need a couple million more. I think for lv53 is like 1.3 mill need to level up. Fight now, it's not that much of a problem with EXP tickets some high exp CO and DOs.

[jooozek]

its 19ish million for lvl 60, confirmed from stream

[Shinamori]

Geez. I just got to Lv 52 lol. Although I've been playing since late February.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

19 million from 59 to 60?

[Joffrey X]

Things will slowly get there. This isn't a complete product like PSO1, so we can't compare them like that. This game is always in development with no real endgame as of yet. It's silly to get upset about the difficulty when we haven't even gotten to a level cap that would allow us INTO Ult.

how long will that be an excuse? we're 9 months after full release

if they just say "lol game is not done yet" in another 2 years, will that still be a valid excuse in your mind?

[Kilich]

Eh, even if they are very aggressive, they just don't have the means to apply pressure on ranged classes.
So, unless they make mobs with ranged weapons, some defense and make them prioritize far away targets, making mobs more aggressive will just hurt melee even more. And melee already are the only classes that mobs have defense against.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Not if we're just at episode 3 with a lvl cap of 80, no. They have like a 5 year plan and expect the game to run for 10.


I'm not trying to justify the drip feed. All I'm saying is you can't compare a 100% complete game to a game that doesn't even have 30% of its final content and say the former has a better end game.

You can absolutely like PSO1 more, but some of the comparisons you guys draw are just unrealistic

[Ueno54]

Ultimate better have scary monster reskins!

[Joffrey X]

kiddo, if they released the game, it's complete.

They're going to keep releasing updates and content, but that doesn't mean its not a complete/full game. by that logic, every MMO in existence can just use the excuse that "its not done yet" to justify bad content, because they all release updates over time.

fact is , the game should be much better than it is. it should have better , more content than it does. the developers should be listening more than they are, and be making constant changes.

they are doing NOTHING. they are incompetent , sacks of crap. They can't even properly balance the most GLARING balance issues.

I cant imagine it would take that long to take a few of the underpowered, crappy PAs for each class, sit down for a few minutes , and discuss how to fix them.

what is your excuse for SEGA not doing that? do you think it would really take them much time to tweak a few damage formulas at the very least? seriously, how long would it take to just take ONE , even ONE of the many horrible imbalanced useless PAs in this game, and tweak it a little? which is the bare minimum for what they could do in terms of balancing, and theyre not even doing that much.

it's INCOMPETENCE, and laziness. now stop white knighting for sega.

[Z-0]

But these games should be "complete". The way it should work is that updates are more and more content as people start to run dry after MONTHS (or even a year) of playing, not a mere 2 weeks ~ a month, because that's how long it took me to feel like I was done with this game (well on one class (which I capped in a week of actually joining), but playing more classes just felt kind of the same).

I found more things to do, because I really enjoy this game, and I always have some motivation when they release something like level caps, maps, quests, but after a week or more I'm back to the same old again, where I feel like I have nothing to do.

A video game should always feel "complete", but PSO2 just doesn't. I can't accept "This game is pretty new so it's understandable" anymore, because SEGA just aren't doing anything about it.

[Zyrusticae]

now stop white knighting for sega.
Dude.

Seriously.

Why are you even here? :-?

[Joffrey X]

because I play the game? that doesnt mean I have to be satisfied with the developers' piss poor handling of it

like, with all the money this game is making, you would have to assume people are getting paid to work on PSO2 right?

what the hell are they doing all day if they cant even make a few balance tweaks over the course of FOREVER? theyre freakin awful

[gravityvx]

They should add an Ultimate darker map that's clones only with a few darkers in the mix to support them via heals, attacking, shielding, they can't be staggered or tossed, move 5x faster than normal arks & have a non braindead AI, but weak to status effects like shock, posion etc and each room's locked until clear like Darker's Den. Throw in crazy pressure similar to those infected arks ships and I'd be all over that.

[Zyrusticae]

because I play the game? that doesnt mean I have to be satisfied with the developers' piss poor handling of it

like, with all the money this game is making, you would have to assume people are getting paid to work on PSO2 right?

what the hell are they doing all day if they cant even make a few balance tweaks over the course of FOREVER? theyre freakin awful
Well, the problem is the general playerbase of PSO2 simply doesn't agree with you. The reason they're so reluctant to touch any of this stuff after the fact is simply because they can't actually move unless they have serious pressure from either customers or stockholders, and if neither are giving them motivation to act then nothing is done.

They're a Japanese corporation run in a very Japanese way, so it should come as no surprise to anyone that they function in this manner.

And why do you even bother playing the game when you clearly despise the fuck out of it? I don't get it. I don't think I've ever heard you actually praise a single aspect of the game. It weirds me out.

[UnLucky]

19 million from 59 to 60?
Wasn't 1->199 the same exact exp as 199->200? That was great.


They're going to keep releasing updates and content, but that doesn't mean its not a complete/full game. by that logic, every MMO in existence can just use the excuse that "its not done yet" to justify bad content, because they all release updates over time.
Yeah most of them have crappy dungeons for the current end game that become a joke nobody ever does anymore once the cap is raised. PSO2 does that even before the new content comes along.


I cant imagine it would take that long to take a few of the underpowered, crappy PAs for each class, sit down for a few minutes , and discuss how to fix them.
They have done exactly that before. A couple PAs got rebalanced when lv11+ discs were added. Look through the list and take note of anything that has a larger jump from 10->11. Those were underpowered PAs they tried to fix.

It's slow, and sometimes not enough, but they did it.

[Joffrey X]

Well, the problem is the general playerbase of PSO2 simply doesn't agree with you.

they don't need to agree with me, because it's fact. This is probably the most imbalanced mmo on the market right now, and zero effort is being put into fixing that despite its obvious financial success.

the classes are horribly balanced and 95% of the available photon arts/techs are entirely useless.

if a whiny brat like myself can easily sit down for an hour and come up with multiple ways to balance some of this shit out, as have MANY people on this board--

and i'm not even talking about stuff that really needs to be developed for, like adding gap closers, I'm talking about even formula tweaks--

then why is SEGA too incompetent to do it? hint, they don't give a crap about the quality of the game because it's just a dress up lottery cash cow that's probably being milked to fund other games with only the bare minimum amount of money being put into it to cover the costs of churning out a few (mostly hideous) costumes.

why I have the right to be pissed and not bend over and accept things as is like you?

PSO fan, I expected more
paying customer, I expect more, I expect service.


WAnd why do you even bother playing the game when you clearly despise the fuck out of it? I don't get it. I don't think I've ever heard you actually praise a single aspect of the game. It weirds me out.

I barely play anymore because the game is so boring, and it feels like a chore. if I'm on and falz comes up, maybe I can force myself to do it. why am I here? I guess I still have some hope, I'll definitely try out the new content coming up tomorrow or the next day, whenever it is

[Narrillnezzurh]

kiddo, if they released the game, it's complete.

This has to be the most naive comment I've ever seen on these forums.

Ignoring the fact that drip-feeding content to the playerbase is Sega's official policy, in what world does a company release a product later than they need to? If the general population isn't going to even reach the end game within a month of launch, there's absolutely no reason for Sega to hold off the release until it's done.

[Z-0]

so like im probably going to bring back a dead topic, but classes are way more balanced than people seem to realise

i only ever feel inferior as GU and TE, because GU is weak as shit (I get by in the maps using Additional Bullet, but you're terrible against mechs in general, and the launcher is weak AF) except on bosses, and TE is just FO, but inferior.

i mean it's really funny how everyone is like "omg melee is so shit you should really do something guys!!!", but melee is actually better than ranger, especially if you're soloing. :/ ranger's a really solid class if played right, and can keep up with forces and melee classes, but there's too many kinks which can really put them back, such as enemies like the krabz and cyclops in ruins, gilnach and guardines in mines (no weakspot to hit easily), and enemies that are ecstatic such as fangulf and whatnot.

i don't like... one shot entire GROUPS on melee for no reason, you know.

edit: most people reached the cap within a month of release. there were constant complaints everywhere about there being nothing to do except run around in circles while getting no EXP everywhere. it's most likely why the EXP requirements for 40+ are annoying (if you play multiple classes, that is).

[SociableTyrannosaur]

kiddo, if they released the game, it's complete.

They're going to keep releasing updates and content, but that doesn't mean its not a complete/full game. by that logic, every MMO in existence can just use the excuse that "its not done yet" to justify bad content, because they all release updates over time.

fact is , the game should be much better than it is. it should have better , more content than it does. the developers should be listening more than they are, and be making constant changes.

they are doing NOTHING. they are incompetent , sacks of crap. They can't even properly balance the most GLARING balance issues.

I cant imagine it would take that long to take a few of the underpowered, crappy PAs for each class, sit down for a few minutes , and discuss how to fix them.

what is your excuse for SEGA not doing that? do you think it would really take them much time to tweak a few damage formulas at the very least? seriously, how long would it take to just take ONE , even ONE of the many horrible imbalanced useless PAs in this game, and tweak it a little? which is the bare minimum for what they could do in terms of balancing, and theyre not even doing that much.

it's INCOMPETENCE, and laziness. now stop white knighting for sega.

Look I know you're just a punk who lives with his mom and you hate your life cause your online gf won't come to visit 'cause she's actually a man so your crappy job at bestbuy is all you have to get you through the day making it impossible for you to cope with life without trying to shit on others, but don't bring that here or you'll get smacked down.

if you'd actually read any of my posts you'd never in a million years call me a white anything. The fact that you even would act like I'm defending them when I said you're free to hate the game, but comparing end games when the subject at hand doesn't have one is stupid.

Since you couldn't glean that from plain english I'll have to assume you either huff glue and can't read. Or huff glue and don't want to read.

[Zyrusticae]

they don't need to agree with me, because it's fact. This is probably the most imbalanced mmo on the market right now, and zero effort is being put into fixing that despite its obvious financial success.
I know, I'm just explaining why it is so.

I don't really give a shit either way at this point, if they fix it, great, if not, no skin off my back.

There are plenty of games out there that have seriously questionable balance issues that never get fixed (re: almost everything in existence that isn't Starcraft or a MOBA), so I just take it as a fact of life at this point. It helps that it doesn't actually affect my play experience when the imbalances aren't gamebreakingly bad anyway.

I barely play anymore because the game is so boring, and it feels like a chore. if I'm on and falz comes up, maybe I can force myself to do it. why am I here? I guess I still have some hope, I'll definitely try out the new content coming up tomorrow or the next day, whenever it is
I think this is completely irrational behavior and you should really just quit. I don't see how it's possible for the game to change your opinion unless it actually changes the core gameplay, which isn't going to happen any time soon for very obvious reasons.

This goes for just about everyone who feels the same way. Why bother? If you don't enjoy the minute-to-minute gameplay as it is, what makes you think your opinion is ever going to change in the future? It's not rational. Not even remotely so. Just don't bother.

[Joffrey X]

I don't want to quit altogether yet, and it's not really your place to tell me to do so. if I can find any enjoyment from this game, and my friends are still playing, I'll at least log in from time to time. I'm just very, very displeased overall with the way the game has been handled, with the phantasy star name pretty much being used up like a whore for tacky lottery costumes.

again, I do love the customization in this game, but the fact that the customization "happens" to be cash shop-centric, and "happens" to be the only aspect of the game that gets ANY attention,
while the core game/gameplay/mechanics/balance/AI/endgame/everything else get ZERO attention,... it's so sleazy, so pitiful.

fans might be shelling out the dough, but I think the majority of us still know that we are being pissed on by SEGA here. the phantasy star name has lost a lot of weight with me

[gravityvx]

This has to be the most naive comment I've ever seen on these forums.

Ignoring the fact that drip-feeding content to the playerbase is Sega's official policy, in what world does a company release a product later than they need to? If the general population isn't going to even reach the end game within a month of launch, there's absolutely no reason for Sega to hold off the release until it's done.

Technically speaking, when a game goes gold it is indeed considered complete(beta tested to death, bug fixes etc). Whether they are holding back actual content doesn't change the fact that to them, the game is complete enough to have gone gold, so much so that they think it wise enough to not put certain content in game on release. So the way I see it these days with bullshit companies like EA shoving DLC down our throat is this, if it's gold the "original" game is complete, everything else is just to continously milk the playerbase(see every EA game this gen, and pretty much every mmo).

[SociableTyrannosaur]

Unfortunately game developers like EA have shifted the paradigm so that what defines a "complete game" has changed.

I'm really not sure why some of you are as upset as you are seeing as the game is 100% free to play. All the content they're drip feeding, shameless as it is, is free to download. You're not paying for it, they give that to you. You could enjoy 100% of the game's content and not pay a dime. They're not expansion packs. You don't have to go to the store and buy them. you don't even have to pay to download them. It's all free.

Does it suck that the game is being made to appease the casual audience more than the hardcore? Absolutely. I would love for this game to have some more challenging content. At the same time there are people I play with who can barely handle the content we have now. So much so that having them along actually slows DOWN TAs and trying to explain anything to them is like an exercise in head trauma.

The majority of the content we're getting is what PAYING customers want. if the content you want is coming in too slowly though, why not just wait for the content to get to a point where you can enjoy the game? This can't possibly be the only game you have in your library or the only game that catches your interest. Play something else for a few months and come back. Because nothing is going to come from bitching about it on a fan site based in another country that doesn't even speak the same language as the company that makes and distributes the product.

If waiting around is too much, then just find a different game because this is PSO2 and unless the core player base decides they want more from the game than playing dress-up with the gameplay being a secondary, it's not going to change.

[Zenobia]

God damn Social and Zyru is tearing this thread up they are on fiyah someone better call the ambulance cause these 2 on a killing spree~!

But yeah on a srs note guys try not to get to worked up no matter how much these comments piss ya off different ppl with different outlooks lets keep that in mind as well and stay on task.

[Shinamori]

Wasn't 1->199 the same exact exp as 199->200? That was great.


4,812,416, according to the chart.
http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1291

[gravityvx]

Unfortunately game developers like EA have shifted the paradigm so that what defines a "complete game" has changed.

I'm really not sure why some of you are as upset as you are seeing as the game is 100% free to play. All the content they're drip feeding, shameless as it is, is free to download. You're not paying for it, they give that to you. You could enjoy 100% of the game's content and not pay a dime. They're not expansion packs. You don't have to go to the store and buy them. you don't even have to pay to download them. It's all free.

Does it suck that the game is being made to appease the casual audience more than the hardcore? Absolutely. I would love for this game to have some more challenging content. At the same time there are people I play with who can barely handle the content we have now. So much so that having them along actually slows DOWN TAs and trying to explain anything to them is like an exercise in head trauma.

The majority of the content we're getting is what PAYING customers want. if the content you want is coming in too slowly though, why not just wait for the content to get to a point where you can enjoy the game? This can't possibly be the only game you have in your library or the only game that catches your interest. Play something else for a few months and come back. Because nothing is going to come from bitching about it on a fan site based in another country that doesn't even speak the same language as the company that makes and distributes the product.

If waiting around is too much, then just find a different game because this is PSO2 and unless the core player base decides they want more from the game than playing dress-up with the gameplay being a secondary, it's not going to change.

I see where you're coming from, but I'm 100% sure the complaints are no different on JP sites than here(see all grinding "nerfs", slightly more challenging area than the norm, darkers den, exp needed from 40-50 and the oh so awaited zonde nerf). As for the game being free, sorry to say but that is never an excuse and actually find that to be a more negative take on a game than positive. That if it's free, who cares how good or bad it is. I myself took a 3 month break from this game, came back still in same boat but patiently waiting for fun and challenging content. There's nothing wrong with complaints as long as they are constructive, just like there's nothing wrong with praising it.

What is wrong that I will agree on is people starting arguments in every single thread over someone elses opinion(BOTH positive & negative) when there's basically one already open right now thats solely to state your opinion on the game in it's current state(and there have been many others). And the people that read a particular thread that they know will set them off, well, why do you? Masochist? Not saying this is that kind of thread but you get what I'm saying I'm sure.

[Narrillnezzurh]

Technically speaking, when a game goes gold it is indeed considered complete

Not in today's market. The ability to force amendments and additions after release shattered the traditional software release cycle.


As for the game being free, sorry to say but that is never an excuse and actually find that to be a more negative take on a game than positive. That if it's free, who cares how good or bad it is.

It's the natural rebuttal to an entitlist argument. In this particular case, you aren't entitled to anything, and you have no right to demand anything more of Sega than what they give to you.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

I think you misunderstood. there's nothing wrong with having complaints about a game even if it is free to play. What I'm talking about is the people who take it upon themselves to shit all over the game and the people who do like it for days or weeks at a time when no money was spent to even begin to justify that level of outrage.

Free or not, everyone is entitled to their opinions and has a right to voice them. But to go on endlessly about it on a fansite which has no control over the game, has no contacts with the game's devs and is basically just a resource for the english speaking community to the point of greifing others and making personal attacks on those who disagree with them is insane. They'd get better results by learning japanese and actually firing off a few letters.

Yes there are a lot of complaints about the game's balance and as the complaints come in they make adjustments(imagine that); but when they send out surveys to see what the players want, what's at the top of that list every time?

More costumes.

[Reia]

Enemies shouldnt stop their attacks even after you hit them, like the bosses (Can still be affected by knockback PAs) in next difficulty (Like PSPo2 past A rank difficulty). That will focus more on dodge/guarding and not just mindlessly attack.

[Joffrey X]

making personal attacks on those who disagree with them is insane.

aren't you kinda the one who was doing that?

[SociableTyrannosaur]

aren't you kinda the one who was doing that?

Who's the one who started calling people kiddo and insinuating that anyone who defended the game had a psychological condition? And way to take my quote and put it directly out of context to fit your needs.

Yeah, just stop there

[Zyrusticae]

For the record, I don't have problems with criticism per se, especially when they're actually rational and have a real basis behind them.

My problem is when people restate that crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over......

Again and again and again, why? I don't know, it's just kind of tiresome at this point. There's no reason to keep on going at it, and especially no reason when you've decided the game is crap and you're no longer playing it anymore (or still playing it because I don't know why even bother at that point?).

I have a huge list of games that I no longer play that I had high hopes for and am strongly disappointed by. Champions Online ranks highly in that list, alongside Diablo 3, Aion, Tera, Mechwarrior Online, and others. Guess what I don't do? I don't go onto forums about those games and constantly and unendingly complain and complain and complain and complain and complain about things that may or may not change over and over and over and over and over again. I sure as hell don't do that for months on end even after I've stopped playing those games. It's confusing as hell that there are numerous posters on this very forum doing exactly that, and I can't figure it out at all. It's just crazy. It's nuts. It's bonkers. It's not right.

It's even worse when people outright state that you're a moron or crazy or a fanboy or just rationalizing it when you say you actually enjoy the game despite obvious flaws. Like, seriously? What the fuck, man? I'm not allowed to like the game because you don't? Come off it, already! This is way too much.

It's all just way too damn much.

[gravityvx]

I think you misunderstood. there's nothing wrong with having complaints about a game even if it is free to play. What I'm talking about is the people who take it upon themselves to shit all over the game and the people who do like it for days or weeks at a time when no money was spent to even begin to justify that level of outrage.

Free or not, everyone is entitled to their opinions and has a right to voice them. But to go on endlessly about it on a fansite which has no control over the game, has no contacts with the game's devs and is basically just a resource for the english speaking community to the point of greifing others and making personal attacks on those who disagree with them is insane. They'd get better results by learning japanese and actually firing off a few letters.

Yes there are a lot of complaints about the game's balance and as the complaints come in they make adjustments(imagine that); but when they send out surveys to see what the players want, what's at the top of that list every time?

More costumes.

^That last part made me lol more than it should have, but yeah I suppose I did misunderstand. The griefing though, comes from both sides so I'd say neither is in the right when it comes to this forum, I mean someone could could post a completely constructive positive/negative on the game and if there were too many negatives you can count on that thread going 10+ pages of drive by arguments and someone going on a rampage throughout. I haven't really seen anyone just going all out batshit crazy bashing the game though more passive aggressive than anything, I have on the other hand, seen people acting that way towards the people that did say anything negative though.

[Shinamori]

RNG is pretty "meh" though. I ran into like 2-3 rare darkers back to back. I've gotten 2 rares within seconds of each other. During a 2 hour MPA I've gotten nearly 5 rare drops. Yet the last MPA before that I got none and that was at least nearly a 3 hour.

[Narrillnezzurh]

I haven't really seen anyone just going all out batshit crazy bashing the game

I saw one in this very thread.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

RNG is pretty "meh" though. I ran into like 2-3 rare darkers back to back. I've gotten 2 rares within seconds of each other. During a 2 hour MPA I've gotten nearly 5 rare drops. Yet the last MPA before that I got none and that was at least nearly a 3 hour.


Man...I have pictures to show you how dumb the RNG is. I could go days or even weeks without getting a single rare. And then bam: 5 drops from one boss - none of them worth a damn. while someone next to me gets 3 drops from that same boss, 2 of which being things they wanted 2 months ago and forgot about since.


And then 2 more weeks of nothing.

[Aine]

That doesn't mean the RNG is bad. Flip a coin a hundred times and you'll almost certainly get long sequences of only heads or only tails.

https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/info2950_2012sp/mh.pdf

[SociableTyrannosaur]

we're not talking about coin flipping. We're talking about how some people get good rares all the time and others get nothing for weeks. That's a bad RNG.

[Rien]

Or get nothing at all. That's bad RNG.

[gravityvx]

That doesn't mean the RNG is bad. Flip a coin a hundred times and you'll almost certainly get long sequences of only heads or only tails.

https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/info2950_2012sp/mh.pdf

Please give me that ridiculous rapeface coin dudu has....I will be rich once I get to use it, 9 times out of 10 he will win. 90% success rate? Riiight. Using Dudus coin thats Equivalent to 50% or less and I'm being lenient, it's either get it to 100% or more than likely youre gonna go home sad, something will, or usually will fail. And that's just affixes, lolgrindingtenstar. I can assure you nothing wothwhile has the chance of a coinflip in this game.

[Mekhana]

My team mate has failed 80% affixes way more than he should.

Pretty sure the numbers are bull, unless it's 100%.

[Zaven]

I.. i sell all my stuff at myshop premium account to get costumes for my girl char's, and i spend hours in myroom trying to get something i'm fine with.

I played the game for a complete year i rerolled exactly 17 times and never reached level 40 with my soon 600 hours of play. I'm a ***** casual who pays 10 times for girl's clothes what he pays for his actual gear, and yet i have GW2, DIII and LoL installed on my computer, wich are cool games, but now i wanna play PSO2, this is what makes me happy.

Am i just a **** jerk ?
In all those threads, could you please guys (those who do of course) stop talking about players like me like we were retards, or babies ...
At some point it is not SEGA we'r defending but pretty much ourselves .. well i'm talking for my case but you get my point.

I'm sad i feel like i'm being shit on, this is Minecraft all over again, but my char's still pretty cute so it's k (might reroll tomorrow, her skin isn't completly satisfiying yet).

----------

Olol skin but no skill

[Kondibon]

Pretty sure the numbers are bull, unless it's 100%.

Anyone who's read up on statistics knows this is always the case regardless of how good or bad a RNG is.

EDIT: Going on from that, I think the best result wouldn't be to "fix" the RNG but to greatly decrease the net loss from failing or get rid of the random aspect altogether.

[Sp-24]

My team mate has failed 80% affixes way more than he should.

Pretty sure the numbers are bull, unless it's 100%.
They are. And I wish I could add something substantial, but nope. They just are.

Proof? Every single thread that is related to PSO2 in any way devolves into RNG whining. It's almost as if it's because it's not very good and people don't like that very much.

[MetalDude]

After playing a lot of Fire Emblem where Hit chance is a big factor, something is hideously wrong with this game when I do in fact miss an 80% hit chance 20% of the time yet fail an 80% affix chance in this game... 80% of the time.

[Coatl]

The %s are a lie.

[Kondibon]

This thread...

http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=072312

But seriously anyone who takes %'s at face value is doing it wrong.

[gravityvx]

This thread...

http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=072312

But seriously anyone who takes %'s at face value is doing it wrong.

In any game I've played, the %s have always been fairly accurate, and in this case you don't even have enemy stats to throw into the equation. In this game, they are drastically wrong, I dunno what you've been playing but no game I have ever played has been this inaccurate with their %s before. I don't even know how you could possibly deny it, out of all the things in this game, I know for a fact those are way off. And I'm talking strictly affixing.

[MetalDude]

You will always have the spare few times in FE games where that one entirely unexpected calculation happens and it's either hilarious or ruins your run of the chapter. I've missed 90's and was subsequently crit on a 4% chance with a 60% chance for that hit to land. It's fucking stupid but it's also just as rare as it's supposed to be anyways.

[Kondibon]

In any game I've played, the %s have always been fairly accurate, and in this case you don't even have enemy stats to throw into the equation. In this game, they are drastically wrong, I dunno what you've been playing but no game I have ever played has been this inaccurate with their %s before. I don't even know how you could possibly deny it, out of all the things in this game, I know for a fact those are way off.

I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying that trying to fix the RNG won't solve anything. There'll still be people who think it's inaccurate, and there'll still be people who think it's great, that's just the nature of statistics.

Personally I've found affixing to be very accurate, but the more affixes you add then the lower the chance of them all going on, statistically. Personally I'd prefer if we could just put them on one at a time instead of being forced to take the chance to lose them. I don't like random things with a chance of a high net loss per attempt anyway. If something is random I'd prefer if I still had a net gain from it.

It should be noted that high risk grinds have a lower than 50% base chance though. Even the caution ones are between 50%-75%. Anything lower than 90% is a crap shoot to me anything lower than 70% I wouldn't bet on, and anything lower than 50% lolwhatever.

EDIT: now that I think about it where are you getting your numbers from?

Moar edit: To clarify, I do think the RNG is bad, but I don't think that directly changing rng formula is going to solve the problem in any meaningful way because lolstatistics.

[gravityvx]

Hum, I didn't give any specific numbers? I gave an observation from my own experience from beta to today of the success rate I've had with very high % affixes while comparing to every other rng based mechanic I've had to go through in any game and concluded that this one is complete bullshit, meaning I don't think it follows any set rule, doesn't matter what the % is and is just completely random unless it's 100%. It's why I don't even bother trying to get 3 slots before affixing a soul on anymore, I just force the extra slot with the soul because the % never changed my success rate regardless if I tried at 50% with 3 slots already available. Same goes for status effect 3s, just force em on because I've got the same odds regardless of how I do it unless the chance is already 100%. But of course, I don't bother forcing anything on until after I've already checked to see if a 20% ticket can't get my affixes to 100%. But again, this is just from a long ass observation from my own experience so take it for what you will.

[jerrykun]

Ultimate Mode would definitely be something I would need premium to play, why? because SEGA's logic says: level? pfft, PREMIUM!

[SociableTyrannosaur]

best start saving those pennies then

[Kondibon]

I don't think it follows any set rule, doesn't matter what the % is and is just completely random unless it's 100%.All computer based RNGs follow a rule unless they use ambient noise, which I doubt sega would bother with. It's entirely possible to have a bad RNG, I just think that even a good one isn't going to feel so good when you're regularly working in percents lower than 60. I'm not saying fixing it wouldn't help. I just don't think that alone would get rid of the stress it induces or the complaints.

Mabinogi also has a notoriously bad RNG. I knew someone who spent all day crafting thousands of things and compared her results to the listed percentages and found a pretty big deviance. That's why I'm asking you for actual numbers, preferably with a large sample (I think there's a thread for this somewhere). It's hard to work this kind of stuff out without them.

On the other hand I could say I love Mabi's RNG because I repaired 20 points worth of durability at 90% and didn't get a failure. It could just be that the RNGs you're used to are bad too, just bad in the opposite direction giving more successes than they should, or that you aren't using enough samples for it to start normalizing.

You can talk all about how bad the RNG FEELS but without hard numbers how it feels doesn't matter. Anything between 40-60% is going to be a toss in the air anyway, and thus, feel completely random. If you're telling me you're getting these myriad of fails at 90+% after hundreds of attempts then yeah, there's a BIG problem. It only takes a little bit of bias to skew your perception of how often you're failing though. People who are failing a lot are going to feel like they're failing more simply because once they finally get the successes they need to finish they're done.

[Mekhana]

Didn't feel like making a new thread for just this but the new english patch just came out FYI.

[gravityvx]

All computer based RNGs follow a rule unless they use ambient noise, which I doubt sega would bother with. It's entirely possible to have a bad RNG, I just think that even a good one isn't going to feel so good when you're regularly working in percents lower than 60. I'm not saying fixing it wouldn't help. I just don't think that alone would get rid of the stress it induces or the complaints.

Mabinogi also has a notoriously bad RNG. I knew someone who spent all day crafting thousands of things and compared her results to the listed percentages and found a pretty big deviance. That's why I'm asking you for actual numbers, preferably with a large sample (I think there's a thread for this somewhere). It's hard to work this kind of stuff out without them.

On the other hand I could say I love Mabi's RNG because I repaired 20 points worth of durability at 90% and didn't get a failure. It could just be that the RNGs you're used to are bad too, just bad in the opposite direction giving more successes than they should, or that you aren't using enough samples for it to start normalizing.

You can talk all about how bad the RNG FEELS but without hard numbers how it feels doesn't matter. Anything between 40-60% is going to be a toss in the air anyway, and thus, feel completely random. If you're telling me you're getting these myriad of fails at 90+% after hundreds of attempts then yeah, there's a BIG problem. It only takes a little bit of bias to skew your perception of how often you're failing though. People who are failing a lot are going to feel like they're failing more simply because once they finally get the successes they need to finish they're done.

If we want to talk about my actual failures, then yeah I've failed well over 200 80% soul affixes over the months from launch up to now back when I refused to buy those 1m+ 20% tickets and affixed for profit, it's not a large number but the amount of those I've failed vs succeed is ridiculous(hint: success less than 100 of these without using a ticket). This was the point that I stopped giving a shit and started buying them & forcing affixes on when I didnt have them. And this is the point I was trying to get across, my success has been exactly the same after changing my methods, unless it was 100%, completely random bullshit. RNG is random, but you factor in this success rate, say 80% and the chance of failure should be lower, not all over the place. And for the record I dont say the rng feels bad, I'm saying that for a fact, it is very fucking bad. Just because you need hard numbers isn't gonna change what I've seen myself over all the affixes I've done, if you can find your statistics you're looking for, more power to ya but the fact will remain the same, rng is very, very, bad.

[supersonix9]

Ultimate Mode would definitely be something I would need premium to play, why? because SEGA's logic says: level? pfft, PREMIUM!

too bad sega doesn't actually require premium for stuff like this

[Kondibon]

If we want to talk about my actual failures, then yeah I've failed well over 200 80% soul affixes over the months from launch up to now back when I refused to buy those 1m+ 20% tickets and affixed for profit, it's not a large number but the amount of those I've failed vs succeed is ridiculous(hint: success less than 100 of these without using a ticket). This was the point that I stopped giving a shit and started buying them & forcing affixes on when I didnt have them. And this is the point I was trying to get across, my success has been exactly the same after changing my methods, unless it was 100%, completely random bullshit. RNG is random, but you factor in this success rate, say 80% and the chance of failure should be lower, not all over the place. And for the record I dont say the rng feels bad, I'm saying that for a fact, it is very fucking bad. Just because you need hard numbers isn't gonna change what I've seen myself over all the affixes I've done, if you can find your statistics you're looking for, more power to ya but the fact will remain the same, rng is very, very, bad.

I concede for now then. I'd prefer if they just using it so much anyway. Makes it so hard to gauge how close you actually are to getting something.

[Syklo]

This is definitely an argument in Ultimate mode.