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View Full Version : Character ages, or Maria and Regius are really bloody old



Zyrusticae
Apr 28, 2013, 10:13 AM
So someone posted this age list on /pso2g/:


16: Claris, Sara, Uruk, Theodore, Afin
17: Reda, Patty, Tea
18: Melitta, Shiina, Matoi
21: Ohza, Marlu
22: Fourie
23: Echo
24: Brigitta, Zeno, Light
25: Huey
27: Rojio
28: Gettemhart, Kloto
30: Kasra
35: Aki
36: Hilda
52: Jan
70: Maria
73: Regius

Hmmm, two of my characters are older than half the cast. What a strange feeling.

And goddamn, Maria and Regius are fucking ancient. We knew this already, of course, but actually seeing that they're both over 70 really hits it home.

Clarice and Afin seem to suffer from "eternal loli/shota" syndrome. They really do not look their age, especially next to the other three within their age bracket.

I guess I don't need to be as hard on Theodore knowing the guy is just 16 years old(?!) and waaay out of his depth. Poor bastard.

So, yeah. ARKs apparently have a really low age requirement and will readily thrust 16-year-olds into the thick of chaotic battle after a little hazing in Nab Forest. What an odd paramilitary organization.

Reiketsu
Apr 28, 2013, 10:19 AM
lol, Claris is 16?
Her body got stuck at 11 and her mental state at 5... I guess when you add that together you get 16, hmm...

Galax
Apr 28, 2013, 10:21 AM
By contrast, Spartans - who actually existed - were said to start training their kids to be soldiers at age 7. Look how they turned out.

There's nothing wrong with training at a young age - it's that many more years you have behind you for self defense and winning fights. And of course, with such a huge fleet, you need as many soldiers as possible - so naturally the Arks take you on as soon as they reasonably can. Pretty sure it's more about willingness and ability than it is about age.

Zyrusticae
Apr 28, 2013, 10:31 AM
On the flipside, this probably means the age of consent on Oracle is 16 years old as well. (Not that anyone really cares about that... heh.)

The more interesting thing is that this means that every player character is canonically a minimum of 16 years old, including all the tiny 4'6" lolis and shotas running around at any given point in time. Anyone younger is still going to be in the ARKS Academy.

I don't know what they're putting in their food, but damn, growth in the ARKS fleet is pretty stunted for a lot of people, eh?

Resanoca
Apr 28, 2013, 10:32 AM
Fan speculation? lol

Gardios
Apr 28, 2013, 10:32 AM
Light is 24? Oh my, looks like there's no hope for Afin to stop being a wuss when he grows up.

Shirai
Apr 28, 2013, 10:34 AM
How sure are you that this is actually even accurate?
I've seen various different ages on message board sites...some that even say that Claris is 14, lol.

It's most likely just fans

Meyfei
Apr 28, 2013, 10:37 AM
Pretty sure it's more about willingness and ability than it is about age.

So... There is no retirement?

Well Jean, looks like you're hanging around till the end!


How sure are you that this is actually even accurate?
I've seen various different ages on message board sites...some that even say that Claris is 14, lol.

It's most likely just fans

I think it's a pretty fun idea of picking out ages xD even if they may not be accurate. I wonder how old Koffie is...

Galax
Apr 28, 2013, 10:45 AM
So... There is no retirement?

No, I didn't say that. If you're no longer willing, and getting on in your years, I daresay they'd allow you to retire unless they couldn't afford to lose anyone at a given time - in which case anyone capable of lifting a blade, gun, or magic instrument would be up and on the front lines, because they'd probably be fighting off an invasion.

Other than that, though, I see no reason an old soldier can't say he's getting too old for this shit.

Zyrusticae
Apr 28, 2013, 11:48 AM
How sure are you that this is actually even accurate?
I've seen various different ages on message board sites...some that even say that Claris is 14, lol.

It's most likely just fans
The numbers are probably from this (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=NEOBK-1467340).

There are some curious omissions there... Lisa being the most notable one. I wonder what the deal is with her?

Sayara
Apr 28, 2013, 11:56 AM
I would like to disagree with most of these ages on here hahahaha..

Jakosifer
Apr 28, 2013, 12:13 PM
Hilda mmmm mmm.

Koffee still mysterious... That's why she's OTW...

~Aya~
Apr 28, 2013, 12:21 PM
Hilda mmmm mmm.

Koffee still mysterious... That's why she's OTW...

She is OTW, really?

ShinMaruku
Apr 28, 2013, 01:08 PM
Nobody talks on Cloudcookolander Huey being 25 and acting like a fool. :E

Kierto
Apr 28, 2013, 01:08 PM
My money's on Afin being dead/ghost.

Still not sure how to understand Theodore's remarks about Ulc being dead(?)/killed(?) too. But that might be my crappy Japanese. :E

ShinMaruku
Apr 28, 2013, 01:20 PM
I wonder who old Afin's sister is... She fine...

Omega-z
Apr 28, 2013, 03:25 PM
Well ages are not that big off a surprise. 16 is the norm for a solider and adult hood. and in Lore wise Newman's age quicker or just have shorter life span's....PSU Keran was 12. So for this game Newman's are going to be the youngest with Cast's being the oldest.

ShinMaruku
Apr 28, 2013, 03:27 PM
We don't know how nemans age in this game now given that Echo's age is what was expected. Hell with the tech being 70 might just be nothing is they all live 175 years...

Gama
Apr 28, 2013, 03:39 PM
heh not showing cast ages i see.

well most cast are either old as hell, or brand new.

and you fleshies cant tell the diference cuz we have superior intelect!

:p just kidding.

but show sum cast love too

Xaeris
Apr 28, 2013, 03:40 PM
"Let's see, I should come up with an age for my character. Hmm...30 sounds good. Should be about middle of the road." *finds out she's friggin' decrepit compared to most of the cast* "Ah...ha...lol, okay then..."

And how the hell is Jean (**** this "Jan" garbage) only 52? Jesus man, get some hair color.

Arrow
Apr 28, 2013, 03:47 PM
heh not showing cast ages i see.

well most cast are either old as hell, or brand new.

and you fleshies cant tell the diference cuz we have superior intelect!

:p just kidding.

but show sum cast love too

I would like to know how old Lisa is...
Probably built yesterday or something silly like that.

Xaeris
Apr 28, 2013, 03:49 PM
Lisa is she who was old when time was but an infant. That's why she's so nutters; eternity has fried her brain.

Arrow
Apr 28, 2013, 03:52 PM
Lisa is she who was old when time was but an infant. That's why she's so nutters; eternity has fried her brain.

...makes sense.
.......and this reminds me of a certain vampire girl who was locked away in a basement for 495 years...

ShinMaruku
Apr 28, 2013, 03:57 PM
Lisa is a nutter because Kireek impregnated Chelsea with nanomachines son.

NoiseHERO
Apr 28, 2013, 04:01 PM
xDDDDD YANDERES ARE SO FUNNI AND KINDA CUTE IT'S FUNNI CAUSE SHE'S CRAZY, IT'S SO RANDOM, QUIRKY AND AWKWARD DON'T KILL ME KYAA~ xDD

ShinMaruku
Apr 28, 2013, 04:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhMsboqMMzs

NoiseHERO
Apr 28, 2013, 04:11 PM
Nanomachines, son! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhMsboqMMzs)

THAT'S the last boss? LOOOOOL

Why's he look like Penn Jillette???

ShinMaruku
Apr 28, 2013, 04:16 PM
Because he made Kireek and therefore is Lisa's grandfather. He's also why she's batshit insane.

Keyblade59
Apr 28, 2013, 05:40 PM
35: Aki

Sounds about right, although it befuddles me that there is barely anyone around her age group. She's also a hot asian 35 which makes her look 20 at mouse.

Kion
Apr 28, 2013, 06:27 PM
I posted this in another thread but no one seems to have noticed it. Here you go:


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso2_zps950d1648.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso2_2_zps17930099.jpg
Image credit: Manta Oyamada
[/spoiler-box]

Unknown: Photon particles discovered. Found a way to use them as energy.
0: With photons used as energy, problems with space flight solved. a new era in space begins
20: arks create a mothership.
50: 24 more ships are added to the fleet not named "oracle"
200: oracle travels to lots of galaxies studied about different life forms and energues
500: a science vessel studying a black hole disappears. no distress signal, no signs of attack.
600: on a new planet, and naturally aggressive life form discovered, become known as darkers
700: more is discovere about darkers, they consume both living and non living matter. more darkers come after oracle.
normal weapns have no effect, many are sacrificed.
a being known as dark falz is discovered to be behind the darkers.
photon weapons are discovered to be effective against darkers, lots of research are put into
the research, but many more planets are lost.
1000: arks which was once intended for science and discovery changes its purpose to wiping out the darkers.[/quote]

238 - current year
235 - huey becomes 6th in council
230 - casra name gets passed down
228 - second clarisa dies in battle with apprentice
227 - Atosa(?), Volf(?) (names) die
226 - clarisa claes name passed down
225 - relations with draginkin get worse
220 - first casra dies
210 - second generation arks. push back darkers for few years
207 - first clarisa claes dies
198 - council of six members:
1) regias 2) maria 3) casra 4)Atosa 5) Clarisa 6) Volf
198 - Deciding battle with Dark Falz (three heros)
190 - regias, maria, clarisa, casra become famous for battles on several planets
170 - something about battle with darkers
140 - dragnkin language translated
90 - planet lilipa and amduskia discovered
40 - naberius discovered


[s]So Regias is over 300 years old? Edit: What the fuck was I thinking when I wrote this. 238-198 = 40. Add some since he's been around longer than that and yeah, about 70. But still I don't even... brain, you have some explaining to do.

WiredRayne
Apr 28, 2013, 06:50 PM
It is obvious the guy that was given the task of asking the CASTS their ages for the census talked to Lisa first. You don't ask woman their age. You definitely don't ask crazed robotic woman with gun obsessions their age. He made a mistake. His existence ended. He doesn't even have a file in the Arks registry anymore.

ShinMaruku
Apr 28, 2013, 07:57 PM
Regias is a bad ass 300+

Omega-z
Apr 28, 2013, 09:18 PM
Hmm..... the year is 1238 A.P. then. So 1238 year from what .......? .......
"Unknown: Photon particles discovered. Found a way to use them as energy."
that sound's a little like PSU with the new use of Natural Photon as a power substitute for the A-Photon's, But not the Photon weapon bit.....could it be the Earth (before it's down fall?) since they didn't have Photon weapon's at the time?
"500: a science vessel studying a black hole disappears. no distress signal, no signs of attack." could that be the EarthMen's ship Noah....maybec? It could work since they where looking for resources since the Earth was in a decline at the time that they also knew it was a bridge from Alisa III's record's and wanted revenge? just couple of random thought's.

update:....PSU meet's the Earth people lol. be ironic if it was.

Cyron Tanryoku
Apr 29, 2013, 01:04 AM
None of them are my age..

Zorafim
Apr 29, 2013, 01:06 AM
Hmmm, two of my characters are older than half the cast. What a strange feeling.

And my character's older than half the cast put together. It's just what happens when you don't use the traditional age of "somewhere around 17".

Amaranthus
Apr 29, 2013, 04:38 AM
Claes, one of the youngest ARKS.. Has a name of a legend passed down to her.. Most powerful (?) FO... :I

..A Sue !

My initial thought was she as actually an overpowered granmama that has the ability to not age !! :L

Courina
Apr 29, 2013, 08:16 AM
well... actualy believeable Maria already that old, or even i think she more than hundred? according matterboard (her own story) she present at destruction of Naberius Ruins... which prolly around naberious founded (year 40) to Battle with darkers (year 170).

my belief, she are one of the early arks who found nab.

also, did anyone notice "old face" on other race was changed with mask for cast, which maria wear all the time


Claes, one of the youngest ARKS.. Has a name of a legend passed down to her.. Most powerful (?) FO... :I

..A Sue !

My initial thought was she as actually an overpowered granmama that has the ability to not age !! :L

i think not only name was passed to her... suspect knowledge and memory of previous Claes too. just seems they fail passin down Wisdom, consider her bratty attitude

Ce'Nedra
Apr 29, 2013, 08:17 AM
Just seems they fail passin down Wisdom, consider her bratty attitude

Maybe that is part of the original Claes too, that or she is just feeling way superior =w=

gigawuts
Apr 29, 2013, 08:33 AM
I posted this in another thread but no one seems to have noticed it. Here you go:


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso2_zps950d1648.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso2_2_zps17930099.jpg
Image credit: Manta Oyamada
[/spoiler-box]

Unknown: Photon particles discovered. Found a way to use them as energy.
0: With photons used as energy, problems with space flight solved. a new era in space begins
20: arks create a mothership.
50: 24 more ships are added to the fleet not named "oracle"
200: oracle travels to lots of galaxies studied about different life forms and energues
500: a science vessel studying a black hole disappears. no distress signal, no signs of attack.
600: on a new planet, and naturally aggressive life form discovered, become known as darkers
700: more is discovere about darkers, they consume both living and non living matter. more darkers come after oracle.
normal weapns have no effect, many are sacrificed.
a being known as dark falz is discovered to be behind the darkers.
photon weapons are discovered to be effective against darkers, lots of research are put into
the research, but many more planets are lost.
1000: arks which was once intended for science and discovery changes its purpose to wiping out the darkers.

238 - current year
235 - huey becomes 6th in council
230 - casra name gets passed down
228 - second clarisa dies in battle with apprentice
227 - Atosa(?), Volf(?) (names) die
226 - clarisa claes name passed down
225 - relations with draginkin get worse
220 - first casra dies
210 - second generation arks. push back darkers for few years
207 - first clarisa claes dies
198 - council of six members:
1) regias 2) maria 3) casra 4)Atosa 5) Clarisa 6) Volf
198 - Deciding battle with Dark Falz (three heros)
190 - regias, maria, clarisa, casra become famous for battles on several planets
170 - something about battle with darkers
140 - dragnkin language translated
90 - planet lilipa and amduskia discovered
40 - naberius discovered


[s]So Regias is over 300 years old? Edit: What the fuck was I thinking when I wrote this. 238-198 = 40. Add some since he's been around longer than that and yeah, about 70. But still I don't even... brain, you have some explaining to do.

I'm noticing a trend.

Can't wait for Clarisa Claes to die next.

D-Inferno
Apr 29, 2013, 08:36 AM
The ARKS Ship that got sucked into the black hole is probably the Darker Den (Den has glass dome similar to an ARKS Ship).

imarafan
Apr 29, 2013, 09:44 AM
I'm surprised no one pointed the fact that Marlu is 21 (despite her... small and thin shape) which makes me think she's kind of a midget (nothing against them, mind you, just feel like pointing that).

Also, she shares the same age as Ohza (who I originally thought to be in his late 30's >_>), which... Might explain some things (in my head-canon, those 2 shared some time together and they... Didn't quite get along, which explains why they have such negative views when it comes to their classes)



*note that I'm mostly talking out of my backside since I didn't look at all the event tablets nor I have completed the latter MB's.

Ce'Nedra
Apr 29, 2013, 09:46 AM
Marlu and Ohza just need to get a room and be done with it.

Zorafim
Apr 29, 2013, 01:29 PM
Can I watch?

Keyblade59
Apr 29, 2013, 02:48 PM
I thought PSO2 was chronological with PSO and PSZ?

ShinMaruku
Apr 29, 2013, 05:59 PM
Claris is a box of doom. Apocalypse Maiden. You don't want that bitch dead.

gigawuts
Apr 29, 2013, 06:00 PM
Cheeks like those don't deserve to live.

BIG OLAF
Apr 29, 2013, 06:02 PM
I thought PSO2 was chronological with PSO and PSZ?

So far, it doesn't seem to have any major connections to PSO (nor any other Phantasy Star game) at all.

gigawuts
Apr 29, 2013, 06:04 PM
They've said PSO2 takes place a few hundred years after PSO1, but damn if they aren't doing their best to make sure they have absolutely zero connections whatsoever, beyond the token legacy weapon models etc.

I'd expect at least some passing mention of the original Pioneers, or idle chat about arks ships being based on an earlier model, etc. Something, anything.

I'm wondering if they're going to eventually change it to being completely disconnected.

ShinMaruku
Apr 29, 2013, 06:07 PM
Cheeks like those don't deserve to live.
What if she dies you die too? http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/forum/images/smilies/Kappa.png

gigawuts
Apr 29, 2013, 06:08 PM
It's for the greater good, and roborts just download to a new body anyway. BSG was a documentary, you see.

ShinMaruku
Apr 29, 2013, 06:09 PM
When she dies all that was dust will return to dust that includes robits. http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/forum/images/smilies/Kappa.png

Omega-z
Apr 29, 2013, 06:20 PM
AIDA - Karen was 12, she lie to guardian's being 13 when she joined and was the youngest on record at the time. She was 17 on record when she was an instructor and taught Ethan and Hyuga, later she tell's them both that's she's 16.

gigawuts - I may of figure out a way this might work for a time line until it changes enough in story .......maybec but some won't like it. I'll PM you if like me to.:rappy:

ShinMaruku
Apr 29, 2013, 06:23 PM
I wonder if Ethan knocked up Karen yet...
http://www.hotbloodedgaming.com/forum/images/smilies/Kappa.png

Omega-z
Apr 29, 2013, 06:26 PM
lol ShinMaruku there's pic's of them....so your answer is "YES"

ShinMaruku
Apr 29, 2013, 06:27 PM
Wat he did?! Now I need to find it.

Aquayoshi
Apr 29, 2013, 06:51 PM
My character is downright ancient (hundreds if not thousands of years old, and even Luna herself is not too sure), but that's just because I need a convenient excuse to be able to use her in every PS game I play, and a bag of spilling for her to lose her skills out of between games.

Somewhat lengthy bit of elaboration and character fic:
Luna's a Cast, so she's immortal (bodily damage can simply be repaired, and she doesn't suffer from instant crash syndrome because her mind is not an AI, but rather a human mind, hosted on an artificial neural network that interfaces with driver software to control her body), and she's not gone crazy ([SPOILER]maybe) because she spent most of her many years asleep in some sort of void -- it swallows her up after she's defeated the big bad (usually Dark Falz) in a given world and her "work is done".
But because she's in limbo slumbering for unknown periods of time between games, when she comes out, sometimes her body is degraded due to age, and her memory is usually a little fuzzy.

Luna hates this process, because she has no control over it. If she chooses not to defeat the forces of darkness, either the forces of darkness will destroy the universe and her along with it, or someone else will defeat the darkness instead (as was the case with Ethan Waber and the SEED, because I didn't play PSU), and she'll just get sucked back into the void anyway. Immortality is not as cool when its price is endless fighting.

It's not all bad, though. Whenever Luna has to fight, she has fun with it, even if it means messing around and acting ridiculous, i.e.: not acting her age. [/SPOILER-BOX]

Link1275
Apr 29, 2013, 06:55 PM
500: a science vessel studying a black hole disappears. no distress signal, no signs of attack.


A science vessel studying a black hole goes missing and it gets mentioned as something more than a passing note about the back page news in the ships log?! These guys need to do more research on the mathematical side of black holes. If something goes into a black hole it gets destroyed, unless it does the near impossible and avoids the meat grinder inside of it and enters the time-space vortex(which would destroy you and your craft if it wasn't designed for it). Not to mention that theoretically a black hole can turn matter into blank matter with absolutely nothing written onto or history connected to it. It is just empty mass without even an atom attached to it. It's also well known that black holes bend time, and have a great gravitational field. So even if they did send out a distress signal or the locations to their last wills and testimonies, the message could take millennia to reach the ARKs fleet assuming it ever did or that they were still receiving transmissions on that frequency.

Kion
Apr 29, 2013, 07:11 PM
They've said PSO2 takes place a few hundred years after PSO1, but damn if they aren't doing their best to make sure they have absolutely zero connections whatsoever, beyond the token legacy weapon models etc.

I'd expect at least some passing mention of the original Pioneers, or idle chat about arks ships being based on an earlier model, etc. Something, anything.

I'm wondering if they're going to eventually change it to being completely disconnected.

I'm thinking it's more of a legend of Zelda kind of deal, the characters are situations are loosely connected, but it fits into the a larger story line. Timelines for PSO and PSU were also included in the guide, but I don't really see too much point in translating them. As it gives their respective timelines, but not how they fit together.

[spoiler-box]
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso2_zps950d1648.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso_zps9a9ad120.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/guhal_zpsbd7955df.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/risa_zps967f95c9.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso2_2_zps17930099.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/drop_zpsaa36a57d.jpg
Image cred: Manta Oyamada
[/spoiler-box]



A science vessel studying a black hole goes missing and it gets mentioned as something more than a passing note about the back page news in the ships log?! These guys need to do more research on the mathematical side of black holes. If something goes into a black hole it gets destroyed, unless it does the near impossible and avoids the meat grinder inside of it and enters the time-space vortex(which would destroy you and your craft if it wasn't designed for it). Not to mention that theoretically a black hole can turn matter into blank matter with absolutely nothing written onto or history connected to it. It is just empty mass without even an atom attached to it. It's also well known that black holes bend time, and have a great gravitational field. So even if they did send out a distress signal or the locations to their last wills and testimonies, the message could take millennia to reach the ARKs fleet assuming it ever did or that they were still receiving transmissions on that frequency.

That kind of annoyed me as well. It's just a McGuffin so it doesn't really matter. Worm hole I could accept, or maybe some issue with studying photons. But blackhole, really? Third graders should know that black holes don't work like that.

Omega-z
Apr 29, 2013, 07:20 PM
ShinMaruku - I'm not sure you'll be able to find them, there pretty old now. They were in high Res. 3-D and had Maya watching behind the corner in some of the pic's. But very detailed Exotic.

Link1275 - In PS Franchise Block hole's are conduits of travel through Time & space with most of the time not being able to go back and which is linked to Dulk Falz. Most likely the added condition of Falz being there and the weakening of the barrier for Profound Darkness in Maghara.

Link1275
Apr 29, 2013, 07:48 PM
Link1275 - In PS Franchise Black hole's are conduits of travel through Time & space with most of the time not being able to go back and which is linked to Dulk Falz. Most likely the added condition of Falz being there and the weakening of the barrier for Profound Darkness in Maghara.
Kion got what I was saying about them(I quoted that portion of Kion's post below). Basically Wormholes are suitable for attempting to jump into the time- space vortex, as if you hit the core of black hole rather than going off to the side of it you get turned into pieces so small you couldn't be seen with a microscope that can see atoms.



That kind of annoyed me as well. It's just a McGuffin so it doesn't really matter. Worm hole I could accept, or maybe some issue with studying photons. But blackhole, really? Third graders should know that black holes don't work like that.
Like I said above they could be used that way; theoretically. However it doesn't make sense. I'm glad to see someone else gets it. Although, jumping through time is a bunch of bullcrap until someone can build stuff out of materials that are of equal or older existence as time due to the grandfather paradox(if then). So even with a Wormhole you can't just hop in and go to 1936, not to mention that a Wormhole is much more likely to only be able to take you through space instead of time(the only way to go through time that I have as a possibility is to jump through the wall of a Wormhole).


I'm thinking it's more of a legend of Zelda kind of deal, the characters are situations are loosely connected, but it fits into the a larger storyline. Timelines for PSO and PSO were also included in the guide, but I don't really see too much point in translating them. As it gives their respective timelines, but not how they fit together.

[spoiler-box]
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso2_zps950d1648.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso_zps9a9ad120.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/guhal_zpsbd7955df.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/risa_zps967f95c9.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/pso2_2_zps17930099.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/drop_zpsaa36a57d.jpg
Image cred: Manta Oyamada
[/spoiler-box]
I was actually thinking along similar lines with the entire PS series. PS just hasn't been around long enough to get enough games out to connect it together yet.

PS: If you were curious I dissected Kion's post to be able to make mine look more coherent, and be more easily readable.

Courina
Apr 29, 2013, 08:01 PM
well, under future sci-fi setting (put logic aside) , the fact they were "Studying" it, should it mean they capable to withstand it... especialy when the main ship expecting there's distress signal from from the vessel if anything happen , like if the anti black hole failing.
im expect supposed that vessel have auto-distress signal if anything happen... so if they vanished without trace, might insider "incident" ? defector scientist? only one knows prolly only those guys who write the story

Link1275
Apr 29, 2013, 08:39 PM
well, under future sci-fi setting (put logic aside) , the fact they were "Studying" it, should it mean they capable to withstand it... especialy when the main ship expecting there's distress signal from from the vessel if anything happen , like if the anti black hole failing.
im expect supposed that vessel have auto-distress signal if anything happen... so if they vanished without trace, might insider "incident" ? defector scientist? only one knows prolly only those guys who write the story
Actually the only way to safely study a black hole is to stay outside of it's gravitational pull, unless you can get in orbit. However getting into orbit is usually not the best idea if you want to conduct research as it means you are constantly accelerating potentially getting to the point where you involuntarily shoot off of the orbit around the black hole and into distant space. As for an anti-black hole technology, nope sorry doesn't exist. It would definitely be illogical to try and make something like that. The most likely case scenario is that these scientists forgot that black holes are constantly feeding if they can and therefore their mass increases exponentially every second. And once you start to get sucked into one time slows down for you(you wouldn't notice though, although an onlooking observer would if they were watching from outside the black hole's gravity field) and you could practically be in the event horizon before that distress signal goes out, and once you're in the event horizon there is no way out except to hit the thrusters and go straight in hop you miss the core and can escape through the theoretic theory of going through the time vortex and risking getting ripped apart there instead.

Kion
Apr 29, 2013, 08:45 PM
For anyone that hasn't seen this, it's a pretty cool video that explains what theoretically happens when you approach a black hole.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI9CvipHl_c


Actually the only way to safely study a black hole is to stay outside of it's gravitational pull, unless you can get in orbit. However getting into orbit is usually not the best idea if you want to conduct research as it means you are constantly accelerating potentially getting to the point where you involuntarily shoot off of the orbit around the black hole and into distant space. As for an anti-black hole technology, nope sorry doesn't exist. It would definitely be illogical to try and make something like that. The most likely case scenario is that these scientists forgot that black holes are constantly feeding if they can and therefore their mass increases exponentially every second. And once you start to get sucked into one time slows down for you(you wouldn't notice though, although an onlooking observer would if they were watching from outside the black hole's gravity field) and you could practically be in the event horizon before that distress signal goes out, and once you're in the event horizon there is no way out except to hit the thrusters and go straight in hop you miss the core and can escape through the theoretic theory of going through the time vortex and risking getting ripped apart there instead.

Totally agree with this. And to add to it, I really don't see any reason to be physically close to the black hole in anyway. I mean we can study black holes just fine via radio telescope. If there's something they wanted to test, they could have set an unmanned probe, or maybe a small science team to go and study it. It says, vessel which I'm assuming is an entire ship like one of the ships we play in, in the game. As is a massive ship with several parts and entire cities. I really can't come up with an analogy of how incredibly fucking stupid that it. I mean that's like NASA wanting to study Venus, so they launch the city of San Francisco into space to go study it. Something went wrong? everybody's dead? Well no frickin' shit Sherlock!! I can give Sega the benefit of the doubt for just being stupid and lazy with their McGuffin. But really, sending ships to study an object they they should fully well know is dangerous, and risk the lives of countless civilians to do so, is just massively stupid on so many levels it's hard to comprehend.

Link1275
Apr 29, 2013, 09:06 PM
For anyone that hasn't seen this, it's a pretty cool video that explains what theoretically happens when you approach a black hole.

A Journey into a Black Hole - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI9CvipHl_c)
That's a very nice video. It also shows why you can't send out a distress signal if you're getting sucked into the black hole. I do find it interesting to note that the singularity can not be reached alive. However it would be nice to see it someday if it were possible to go there without being ripped into pieces. I know of no material that could withstand the pull of a singularity though as it isn't possible to my knowledge(someone may find a way though). The thing this video doesn't mention is what happens when you veer off and hit the thrusters right before going into the event horizon. You can theoretically avoid the singularity and hit the time-space vortex instead, but you would still be ripped apart by either the sheer force or the Grandfather Paradox(if you went back in time and shot your grandfather would you cease to exist, the bullet not him/kill him/not fire, would he just shake it off like it never happened, or would you die upon getting in the past).

Kondibon
Apr 29, 2013, 09:10 PM
This is all very educational but I have to ask why anyone would bother getting miffed about the semantics of a blackhole vs a wormhole in a setting where Photons are used to power light sabers and psychic powers. ._.

EDIT: On topic, I'd be more surprised to see Casts who are in the 15-30 age range. Otherwise I assume they're all really old or really young.

Link1275
Apr 29, 2013, 09:30 PM
This is all very educational but I have to ask why anyone would bother getting miffed about the semantics of a blackhole vs a wormhole in a setting where Photons are used to power light sabers and psychic powers. ._.

EDIT: On topic, I'd be more surprised to see Casts who are in the 15-30 age range. Otherwise I assume they're all really old or really young.
Because super heating and condensing photons is a potential real possibility, getting sucked into a black hole or going missing near one isn't exactly worth noting in the ship's log. It's also impossible to seal something in there and have it get out, which is why the should have thrown falz in one to shut him up permanently. Now if he had been put into a space time seal which is vastly different and known as a subspace realm in the PS series then it would make sense. Subspace is just another layer of space and time that is occupying the same space at the same time, but isn't overriding the actual time space, eg if you stick one piece of paper on your desk and put another one on top the first one is a layer of subspace for this example(it isn't really it's just an example). So when you put falz there he can eventually tear a hole back into the top layer and it gets harder and harder to stop him each time. Putting him in a wormhole is just asking him to come back eventually(they have two ends that come out at any point in time or space...). Throwing falz into a singularity of a black hole would mean his imminent destruction by an unrivaled force of gravity. You would have to have more than E=mc^2 in terms of energy to escape that, because you have to go faster than light itself. While it is considered theoretically impossible to go faster than light, I reject that theory and believe that if have enough energy combusted at the right moment it is possible to go over the speed of light and enter true hyperspace.

Omega-z
Apr 29, 2013, 11:14 PM
Well, anything is possible. But I agree Sega isn't the most informed group in the world. Just at the time they used Black Holes as travel thing, the knowledge was pretty small. Now it's not and we know better. We could call it a Black Sub-Space Rift Hole in Time and Space. That would still fit in Cannon and make better since of what's happening. It's just an idea.

Kondibon
Apr 29, 2013, 11:30 PM
Because super heating and condensing photons is a potential real possibility, getting sucked into a black hole or going missing near one isn't exactly worth noting in the ship's log. It's also impossible to seal something in there and have it get out, which is why the should have thrown falz in one to shut him up permanently. Now if he had been put into a space time seal which is vastly different and known as a subspace realm in the PS series then it would make sense. Subspace is just another layer of space and time that is occupying the same space at the same time, but isn't overriding the actual time space, eg if you stick one piece of paper on your desk and put another one on top the first one is a layer of subspace for this example(it isn't really it's just an example). So when you put falz there he can eventually tear a hole back into the top layer and it gets harder and harder to stop him each time. Putting him in a wormhole is just asking him to come back eventually(they have two ends that come out at any point in time or space...). Throwing falz into a singularity of a black hole would mean his imminent destruction by an unrivaled force of gravity. You would have to have more than E=mc^2 in terms of energy to escape that, because you have to go faster than light itself. While it is considered theoretically impossible to go faster than light, I reject that theory and believe that if have enough energy combusted at the right moment it is possible to go over the speed of light and enter true hyperspace.

I know how blackholes theoretically work. My point was just that it's a really strange thing to get up in arms about. If we're going to nitpick I could just as easily point out that it says they disappeared while investigating a black hole, not that they "fell into it". And then there's the possibility of it not really being a blackhole and the ARKS fleet just thought it was.

I'm not even going to go into detail of cultural osmosis and language evolution concerning the word Blackhole.

EDIT: and then there's translation shenanigans.

MOAR EDIT: I'm sorry! I wasn't trying to start anything by the way, I just felt you were overreacting a bit. I have nothing against you. >_<

Kion
Apr 29, 2013, 11:42 PM
There could be some translation shenanigans going on. I have to go back and double check the rest of the text. But as far as blackhole, and not wormhole or some other explanation, the Japanese used here is: ブラックホール. That's not any fancy characters or anything that could be misinterpreted, it's literally just "black hole" written in katakana. As in this. (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%83%9B%E3%8 3%BC%E3%83%AB)

Kondibon
Apr 29, 2013, 11:56 PM
I think I should just restate what I was trying to say cause I realized it got pretty convoluted.

The term blackhole has colloquially come to refer to wormholes in science fiction. Is it scientifically correct? No. But I don't see it as being any more "wrong" than calling any insect a bug outside of an actual scientific context and don't see a need to write out paragraphs explaining why it isn't correct and what would be better.

But I'm just calling the kettle black. o wo

EDIT: Informal, that's the word I was looking for. The word Blackhole is an informal way of referring to a wormhole. Don't get me wrong though, I think it's silly too.

Kion
Apr 30, 2013, 12:11 AM
I think I should just restate what I was trying to say cause I realized it got pretty convoluted.

The term blackhole has colloquially come to refer to wormholes in science fiction. Is it scientifically correct? No. But I don't see it as being any more "wrong" than calling any insect a bug outside of an actual scientific context and don't see a need to write out paragraphs explaining why it isn't correct and what would be better.

But I'm just calling the kettle black. o wo

EDIT: Informal, that's the word I was looking for. The word Blackhole is an informal way of referring to a wormhole. Don't get me wrong though, I think it's silly too.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I realize it's just a McGuffin, and incredibly stupid McGuffin. But even giving them the benefit of the doubt that it's not a black hole like it RL, and it behaves under different laws inside the fictional universe. It's still beyond incredibly stupid that they would send and entire ship full of civilians to go study an object they know is dangerous at close proximity, for no apparent reason.

I really don't mind techo-mumble jumbo to smooth over a plot point here or there. But this is a race that has mastered intergalactic-space travel and yet has no concept of common sense. That's what irritates me.

Kondibon
Apr 30, 2013, 12:20 AM
Yeah, I know what you mean. I realize it's just a McGuffin, and incredibly stupid McGuffin. But even giving them the benefit of the doubt that it's not a black hole like it RL, and it behaves under different laws inside the fictional universe. It's still beyond incredibly stupid that they would send and entire ship full of civilians to go study an object they know is dangerous at close proximity, for no apparent reason.

I really don't mind techo-mumble jumbo to smooth over a plot point here or there. But this is a race that has mastered intergalactic-space travel and yet has no concept of common sense. That's what irritates me.

Black holes are as safe as any other stellar object as long as you stay a safe distance away. You could make the same argument for stars and gass giants, as getting too close to them would suck things up too (in addition to risking radiation and stuff).

I do think sending a ship full of civvies to check it out is kind of silly, but maybe not all the arks ships are full of civilians? Maybe that particular ship went on it's own without authorization and didn't care about the safety of the civilians. The timeline really doesn't give us enough details for their motivations or what happened. Though admittedly I'd be giving sega a bit too much credit to think they'd pull something as interesting as insurgence or plot twists more complex than loltimetravel.

So yeah... I agree.

Courina
Apr 30, 2013, 08:13 AM
if scientist called civies too... i think not that silly, consider dem egghead know what they doing...

also, seems more advanced technologies, more common sense neeeded ,not like they reduced or gone, just new desire for sate curiousity explore new things beat it. we already proved it with something called Internets. *has been kicked to space*

Kilich
Apr 30, 2013, 08:56 AM
Yeah, I know what you mean. I realize it's just a McGuffin, and incredibly stupid McGuffin. But even giving them the benefit of the doubt that it's not a black hole like it RL, and it behaves under different laws inside the fictional universe. It's still beyond incredibly stupid that they would send and entire ship full of civilians to go study an object they know is dangerous at close proximity, for no apparent reason.

I really don't mind techo-mumble jumbo to smooth over a plot point here or there. But this is a race that has mastered intergalactic-space travel and yet has no concept of common sense. That's what irritates me.

With all due respect, ships can disappear for a lot more reasons than falling into a black hole. Even if they were studying one at the time.

gigawuts
Apr 30, 2013, 09:37 AM
Has anyone (because like hell am I reading this much science-fiction-stated-as-fact) once thought that maybe it wasn't a black hole?

Or maybe Sega are shit writers? Or maybe they wrote the history so they have plot devices to use later on?

"They pulled this out of their ass." "Nuh uh because it's the ship that disappeared in the game's history which was written before the game even came out SEGA ARE GENIUSES, HOW COULD THEY PREDICT THEY'D WRITE THEMSELVES INTO A CORNER?"

You guys are seriously reading too much into this.

omazdex
Apr 30, 2013, 11:53 AM
lol so true

Link1275
Apr 30, 2013, 12:31 PM
With all due respect, ships can disappear for a lot more reasons than falling into a black hole. Even if they were studying one at the time.
However. If it was studying a black hole why wouldn't they immediately assume that happened? You would have to have some reason to assume otherwise, as black holes are very touchy. You can't even see a black hole unless it's devouring something big, like a sun. Black holes are so black that they blend right into space entirely. The only way to see a black hole is to look for gravity distortions around it and radiation, however the theory goes that the smaller the black hole the more radiation. A giant black hole may not put out any radiation. Thereby making it invisible if there is nothing to see around it so that you can see the gravity distortions. If their black hole was truly invisible they could have flown right on into it and not known until it was too late.

Kilich
Apr 30, 2013, 12:52 PM
I'm sure the race that mastered FTL interstellar travel and photons, or Higgs Bosons as I like to call them, have a way to detect gravitational and spacetime distortions. Like black holes.

Link1275
Apr 30, 2013, 01:48 PM
I'm sure the race that mastered FTL interstellar travel and photons, or Higgs Bosons as I like to call them, have a way to detect gravitational and spacetime distortions. Like black holes.
Even so, accidents happen(sabotage too). No matter how you look at it there would have to be something out of the ordinary in order for the ship to go missing around a black hole and get into the log. It would be like you walking into a wall in the morning and having that in the log as something other than that you suffered a minor facial injury. The fact that the log says the ship went MISSING, rather than that it was presumed to have gone into the black hole is most unlikely to have happened without further evidence to support those allegations. In order words they knew that they didn't get sucked into the black hole, because they saw something else happen somehow.

gigawuts
Apr 30, 2013, 02:03 PM
Or they didn't see shit and the ship just didn't report the next day, and they're not making any assumptions about anything because they're written to be idiots, because bad writers write bad stories.

Kondibon
Apr 30, 2013, 02:07 PM
No matter how you look at it there would have to be something out of the ordinary in order for the ship to go missing around a black hole and get into the log..

I think I know where the disagreements are coming from. I never looked at this as being a timeline written by or for someone in-universe. While it's probably going to be important it could easily be said that in-universe they DO just assume the ship got sucked into the black hole and is never coming back.

I thought this was something like those LoZ or metroid timelines that cover things characters in-universe don't actually know about.

Link1275
Apr 30, 2013, 03:30 PM
I think I know where the disagreements are coming from. I never looked at this as being a timeline written by or for someone in-universe. While it's probably going to be important it could easily be said that in-universe they DO just assume the ship got sucked into the black hole and is never coming back.

I thought this was something like those LoZ or metroid timelines that cover things characters in-universe don't actually know about.
It could also be said that there is a government cover-up and they're just letting people think it was the black hole. Think about it. One ship going missing near a black hole. What significance could that be to us the players? In PSO1 there were government cover-ups and conspiracy theories everywhere, here there's almost nothing. You also don't seem to be coming into contact with anyone who's way up there this time around. If this game is truly connected to PSO1, if makes sense that the government would still be covering stuff up.

gigawuts
Apr 30, 2013, 03:33 PM
Bad.

Writing.

It only seems like the people and the leaders/government/illuminati in the story are doing stupid and shortsighted things because...that's what the writers are making them do. The characters don't actually exist, you see. There's some guys in a room talking about what should happen. And this is what they said should happen. And this is stupid. The guys in the room are stupid.

Kilich
Apr 30, 2013, 03:48 PM
Giga, why are you trying to kill this thread so badly? Did it do something bad to you?

gigawuts
Apr 30, 2013, 03:52 PM
This thread:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/562211_512827362108884_1556944474_n.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

ShinMaruku
Apr 30, 2013, 03:54 PM
I think everybody is taking this too seriously but it's entertaining carry on.

NoiseHERO
Apr 30, 2013, 04:21 PM
Thinking more about the plot than the creators thought about it stopped being cool in the 90's.

Crysteon
Apr 30, 2013, 04:34 PM
This thread:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/562211_512827362108884_1556944474_n.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

My thoughts exactly.

Just let Sega be Sega and let them ruin the story even more.

Xaeris
Apr 30, 2013, 05:52 PM
I find this talk about Sega's writing capability to be irrelevant. One, I don't see what harm it does to let people read "too much" into the story if they're enjoying themselves. Two, and more importantly, the author's interpretation of a story is not necessarily the most important one or the one that must be taken as gospel. As counter intuitive as that may seem, it's Literature 101 (aka, Death of the Author).

Link1275
Apr 30, 2013, 06:28 PM
I find this talk about Sega's writing capability to be irrelevant. One, I don't see what harm it does to let people read "too much" into the story if they're enjoying themselves. Two, and more importantly, the author's interpretation of a story is not necessarily the most important one or the one that must be taken as gospel. As counter intuitive as that may seem, it's Literature 101 (aka, Death of the Author).
Thank you.

@Almost everyone else
Since you guys seem to be missing the hint in my last few posts let me spell it out:

This is a clue as to what one of the next arcs of the story is or a good point to put a non-canon connection to PSO1 into PSO2.

Take your pick. This is easily something that can be used like a cannon in connecting the story, because it makes no sense. If it is an actual black hole then they could have gone missing into it or been kidnaped by falz. The wording of the ship's log indicates that the writer of the log or the person in charge of what they write doesn't believe that they got consumed by the black hole.

If they had thought that they would have said something akin to "A ship studying black hole was unfortunately lost to the black hole it was studying", however they just said it went missing. The average civilian would just think they got consumed by the black hole. But what if the government thought or knew something else happened to them?

This is much like the conspiracies in the back story of PSO1. Perhaps this is just a throwback to PSO1, or maybe it's unintentional. Perhaps it is meant to say that the PSO1 government is still in control of thing in PSO2.

"The world may never know."-Tootsie Pop commercials

gigawuts
Apr 30, 2013, 06:30 PM
Right, it's like I said. They left themselves a get out of corner free card.

Omega-z
Apr 30, 2013, 07:24 PM
I've made a connection already and it fit's pretty well. There's only one place that this time line can come from, since the other's can't fit. It work's for now until more of the story comes out.

Link1275
Apr 30, 2013, 07:40 PM
I've made a connection already and it fit's pretty well. There's only one place that this time line can come from, since the other's can't fit. It work's for now until more of the story comes out.
Amd what is your connection?

Kion
Apr 30, 2013, 09:00 PM
The black hole is just a knee jerk reaction that black holes don't work like that. It's like a super hero story where radiation gives the hero super powers instead of cancer. A decade or go, that would have been fine, but by now it should be somewhat common knowledge as to how radiation behaves. Writing something like that, it's either satire, a throwback, or-



a MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin or maguffin) is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist (and sometimes the antagonist) is willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to pursue, protect or control, often with little or no narrative explanation as to why it is considered so important.[citation needed] The specific nature of a MacGuffin is typically unimportant to the overall plot.


The thing is by now their civilization should be able to detect black holes, or know how they behave because black holes are freaking everywhere it space. They're really not that hard to come by, and I'd be really amazed if after a few centuries in space this would be their first encounter with one. As Gigawuts said, I don't think this intentional in anyway. I'd imagine that who ever wrote this takes their derping very seriously.

What matters to me is if the plot device mentions here builds and adds to the story. We can kind of see the darker den could be the ship. And that Xion and the Photoners have some kind of connection to it. Also since Darkers are basically a split from Arks, how did Arks react to it, and what were the decisions made to make Arks into a military organization? Also Dark Falz Apprentice mentioned that Darkers only attack Arks, because Arks attack Darkers. So is there someone inside Arks propagating the conflict?

So while it maybe a stupid plot devise, I'm willing to let it slide. The reason I mostly get annoyed by it, as they've done a decent job building up the world around it, but it would be nice if there were a better reason to it. Like, there was an experiment on the ship involving photons that created a dimensional warp and pulled them into Dalk Falz's dimension or something like that. Something like that, while it does laugh in the face of physics to some degree it helps further explain the world and the characters in it, something like a black hole ("a wizard did it") just seems like a lame cop out.

Courina
Apr 30, 2013, 09:12 PM
let's start conspiracy, those who gone to blackhole now become Falz powered Arks Called D-Arks?

*smacked due lame*

gigawuts
Apr 30, 2013, 09:57 PM
let's start conspiracy, those who gone to blackhole now become Falz powered Arks Called D-Arks?

*smacked due lame*

Sounds like what they'll do to write dumans in to me.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Apr 30, 2013, 10:03 PM
Uh... I think Lumia was 13 or 14 when she joined the Guardians.

Leda is 17? O.O wat

I also kinda expected Echo and Xeno to be in their late teens and for Ohza to be older than 21. And maybe Afin could have been a relatively young Guardians recruit like Karen or Lumia... or maybe he was designed to never age in appearance past 13 or so like Mazarin (if Newman technology can actually work that way.)

Compared to this, my characters... fit right in age-wise. Both are about 20... although Arlene seems more like she should be in her mid-twenties or so. But on the other hand, both of my Casts are less than 5 years old.

Omega-z
Apr 30, 2013, 11:35 PM
Link1275 - with what Kion provided " Unknown: Photon particles discovered. Found a way to use them as energy. 0: With photons used as energy, problems with space flight solved. a new era in space begins" also "700: more is discovere about darkers, they consume both living and non living matter. more darkers come after oracle. normal weapns have no effect, many are sacrificed. a being known as dark falz is discovered to be behind the darkers. photon weapons are discovered to be effective against darkers, lots of research are put into the research, but many more planets are lost." For these conditions to be meet the placement in the timeline has to be Pre/early-Coral/Earth time period and can easily be added in. "0" would be the start of the new Calender year during the new united Coral Gov. of AUW. Meaning before this was a big War over Alisia III's Tech. Then the "500: a science vessel studying a black hole disappears. no distress signal, no signs of attack." was the Earthmen ship Noah which was fuse with Falz D-cell's with there Engine, So they Time jumped on purpose reason for the disappears with no distress signal or no signs of attack. This Would Connect the Classic's, PSO,PSZ. Then with PSO2 meeting with PSU's people form PSP2i & PSEP with Duman's and Beast's, also Matori most likely is part of that group would be the other half. There are also the end side story with PSO's spilt time line because of PSP2i intrusion, That there is the crashed World Ship on Neb.'s ruins most likely Neo Palm and the possibility of Pioneer 3 maybe the starting people of PSU before they lost there history, except that there traveler's which was part of the Arkguard slides. The most interesting thing would be where Shion and Mr.Photoner come from..... especially with the Algol Crest on shion's badge, only two places for that PSO or Classic's. This is where I would put it and also follow's with the Cannon still.

Para
May 1, 2013, 12:29 AM
Aki's 35? dam... shes pretty good looking though.