Some things from PSO you would like to see

[lexstarshok]

Starting off I know this thread had probably been done before, so if its an issue feel free to merge it with another one. ^^

I personally would LOVE to see a few of the old baddies, all updated and pretty! ^^

For an example I would LOVE if they made a crazy new updated version of the De Rol Le. I think the way he played would fit very well with some of the new mechanics in PSO2.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.shinforce.com/elite/phantasystar/gallery_pso/gallery4/wp-PSO-450-1024.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

and Vol Opt (mostly the screen phase) I could see that being sooo fun in pso2, specially if its like 100 screens or something lol

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.pscave.com/pso/enemies/images/volopt.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


Anything you miss about PSO that you really wish would be updated and reimplemented in PSO2?

[TheszNuts]

After PSU I'm not sure everyone would like to see giant-worm-anything again...

[FO-RA-HUnightv]

already data mined is a giant worm like del ro le

[EvilMag]

Actual fun quests that doesn't have bullshit involved just to play it.

[BlankM]

Actual fun quests that doesn't have bullshit involved just to play it.

This^. I went back and played PSOBB last night during maintenance. Found it much easier to pick up and play.

[Skyly HUmar]

Id like quite a few things from pso.

Extra attacks, some music that doesnt feel stagnent, what mag listed above, alot of old mags cuz lets be honest 90% of the new ones just look like fucking teddy bears.

Id like fair droprates and leaving the bullshit froprates for uber end game stuff, a return of S-rank weapons but instead of chosing their name they would be all class and actually decent. Id like every class to be able to use the subclass' weapon (yeah this scraps my s rank idea but god D:). Id like them to use PDs to add % to weapons like in the old game, because lets be honest, its unfair that rangers and hunters have to 50% something to get the most out of it while forces dont even need %, and ontop of that force gear is usually cheaper too for this very reason X.x. Id like rare monsters to have great droprates like they did in pso, id like to be able to grind a weapon without the fear of losing all my meseta, id like it if they just took out the afixing system in general so we would have 1 less rng to worry about.

I could go on all day lol.

[Sayara]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/items/rabbitw01.jpg

[jooozek]

if anything its a fucking advantage that you can get those additional 50% on your weapon
is there a force weapon that has 1500 T-ATK? no there isnt

[Skyly HUmar]

if anything its a fucking advantage that you can get those additional 50% on your weapon
is there a force weapon that has 1500 T-ATK? no there isnt

That still doesnt change the fact that fo weps are generally easier to get besides the lolPwand. I mean, sure they dont have the choice to get more out of their element unless theyre a melee nut, but it costs way more time and meseta to min-max a gun or blade. And thats what irks me a bit.

[Mekhana]

I'd like better music for PSO2 also a bigger gap in difficulty that AQs fail to provide.

[Skyly HUmar]

I'd like better music for PSO2 also a bigger gap in difficulty that AQs fail to provide.

oh thats a good one lol. back in old pso i remember the music being great everywhere (exept caves) now it just feels like the same 3 sounds over and over again.

[BlankM]

That still doesnt change the fact that fo weps are generally easier to get besides the lolPwand. I mean, sure they dont have the choice to get more out of their element unless theyre a melee nut, but it costs way more time and meseta to min-max a gun or blade. And thats what irks me a bit.

What. It costs at least 2 mil for a gramiascent or other spellstone rod.

Thats not too different from the cost it takes to 50 element a lambda weapon, with a much higher payoff for the melee weapon.

What I really dislike is how useless a lot of potentials are. Immediate strike is so good. Meanwhile there are no Guld Millas, Snow Queens, Spread Needles or anything really good like that in this game. I'm not asking for broken crowd control, but more interesting potentials would be nice. Specially with how many 10*'s lack a good one. I want some reward for grinding these...

Also I like the music in PSO2, but give us the ability to play music disks everywhere like in PSO! Like give us a portable bgm player or something. Even if it was just for premium users. I'd love that.

[Link1275]

Id like quite a few things from pso.

Extra attacks, some music that doesnt feel stagnent, what mag listed above, alot of old mags cuz lets be honest 90% of the new ones just look like fucking teddy bears.

Id like fair droprates and leaving the bullshit froprates for uber end game stuff, a return of S-rank weapons but instead of chosing their name they would be all class and actually decent. Id like every class to be able to use the subclass' weapon (yeah this scraps my s rank idea but god D:). Id like them to use PDs to add % to weapons like in the old game, because lets be honest, its unfair that rangers and hunters have to 50% something to get the most out of it while forces dont even need %, and ontop of that force gear is usually cheaper too for this very reason X.x. Id like rare monsters to have great droprates like they did in pso, id like to be able to grind a weapon without the fear of losing all my meseta, id like it if they just took out the afixing system in general so we would have 1 less rng to worry about.

I could go on all day lol.

I was actually thinking that if they made it so that rather than there being risk involved with the grinding system, they could just tier the amount of grinders you need for every grind, eg a 10* would start out needing 10 grinders and end with needing a 100 to go from +9 to +10. They should also keep the affix system with some minor changes, such as once an affix is on there you can't lost it due to affixing something else onto the add-on slot eg you put Attack III in slot 1, it is there until you put something else there so you can put Vol Soul on without worry.

[Skyly HUmar]

What. It costs at least 2 mil for a gramiascent or other spellstone rod.

Thats not too different from the cost it takes to 50 element a lambda weapon, with a much higher payoff for the melee weapon.

What I really dislike is how useless a lot of potentials are. Immediate strike is so good. Meanwhile there are no Guld Millas, Snow Queens, Spread Needles or anything really good like that in this game. I'm not asking for broken crowd control, but more interesting potentials would be nice. Specially with how many 10*'s lack a good one. I want some reward for grinding these...

Also I like the music in PSO2, but give us the ability to play music disks everywhere! Like give us a portable bgm player or something. Even if it was just for premium users. I'd love that.

It costs 200k for a vifrost and 4-5 mil for an ikutachi on ship 10. So how exactly is 200k more pricy than a 20-25 mil 50% kagu? Lambda ardillos here are 1.5m so that would be alot more than just 5m to 50% lol.

[Skyly HUmar]

I was actually thinking that if they made it so that rather than there being risk involved with the grinding system, they could just tier the amount of grinders you need for every grind, eg a 10* would start out needing 10 grinders and end with needing a 100 to go from +9 to +10. They should also keep the affix system with some minor changes, such as once an affix is on there you can't lost it due to affixing something else onto the add-on slot eg you put Attack III in slot 1, it is there until you put something else there so you can put Vol Soul on without worry.

I like that idea too, one where you only lose the meseta if you fail. But i think sega wouldnt do it because they would have to get rid of some items like grind risk -1.

[Shinmarizu]

Weapons organized into tiers that make logical sense: regular weapons that could still pull their weight... Not needing to be rare to be good.
Far less influence of / dependence on RNG.
Bosses that are HARD and require more than just stacked damage multipliers to fight.

I'd get into grinding and affixing as a sad excuse for removing rare weapons with unique abilities and everything else associated with my frustrations with the RNG but I'd be typing walls of text.

[Dnd]

One thing this game desperately needs is 'tiered' rares like PSO had.

You had the super common, crap hard/VH/Ult weapons, that were useful for levelling but nothing major.

Next you had the common weapons, that had fairly good stats but were easily replaced when you spent time in ultimate.

After that you had the rare weapons, that had very nice stats (Im looking at you, demo comet/asuka), but not completely unobtainable if you actually hunted for them.

Then you had your god-tier weapons, (lavis series, p-wand, SJS, heavens punisher, GM etc). Which did require an eternity to hunt for but then they had the stats and/or utility to back them up. (Rifle range mechgun with gush? -50% tp cost etc? nomnomnom).

Pso2 has the following:

Common useless rares past normal mode

Quite rare 7-9*'s which offer some niche (Be it all class, or other factors) in very hard, but sacrifice raw damage.

Then you get almost the 10*'s, even the less powerful ones requiring weeks, sometimes months to hunt to get even one, and even then, over 2/3rds of them don't have anything useful outside of raw stats.

Come superveryhard/ultimate or whatever the next major difficulty will be, I'd love to see this being addressed somewhat (That, and having special weapons that seem.. special instead of just maybe looking better and having better stats -_-)

[BlankM]

It costs 200k for a vifrost and 4-5 mil for an ikutachi on ship 10. So how exactly is 200k more pricy than a 20-25 mil 50% kagu? Lambda ardillos here are 1.5m so that would be alot more than just 5m to 50% lol.

But there are cost efficient ways to get much higher power then a FO can get with just their Rubiascent. Most people just get an Aristin because they main fighter.

Besides, its a good thing imo that meseta has value in this game. In PSO sure you could trade photon drops, but the real good stuff had to be traded with other real good stuff. So if you had a terrible ID(Like Lol yellowboze) or just bad luck and nothing to trade then you were SOL.

Also the system in general is a massive amount of meseta for not-so-massive gains. So long as you can one shot most mobs, and weak bullet exists. A lot of it is totally not necessary to be competitive.(If that was ever a goal...)

[gravityvx]

Thing's I'd like to see...

1) A Falz that doesn't get shit on so easily, but instead is actually scary itself as an enemy (grants & megid lockon...fast movement no weak points etc)

2) Indoors area...seriously ffs I'm tired of all these floating islands in the middle of nowhere.

3) Areas with a purpose other than running in circles like this game, progression through areas through having to fight your way to the final area, and seeing that one land mark that confirms the midway point or near end(caves & the falz hallway come to mind.)

4) More balanced music, it's all over the place in this game to the point it's not that enjoyable most of the time

5) Rare enemies = high chance of rare (lol who am I kidding)

6) Special abilities on weapons, like lavis cannons special, heavens punisher, dark flow etc, currently all just different skins with higher stats.

7) Agressive AI that doesn't flinch so damn much, swarms you easily and doesn't take tea breaks between attacks.

8 No Dudu

[Shinmarizu]

One thing this game desperately needs is 'tiered' rares like PSO had.

You had the super common, crap hard/VH/Ult weapons, that were useful for levelling but nothing major.

Next you had the common weapons, that had fairly good stats but were easily replaced when you spent time in ultimate.

After that you had the rare weapons, that had very nice stats (Im looking at you, demo comet/asuka), but not completely unobtainable if you actually hunted for them.

Then you had your god-tier weapons, (lavis series, p-wand, SJS, heavens punisher, GM etc). Which did require an eternity to hunt for but then they had the stats and/or utility to back them up. (Rifle range mechgun with gush? -50% tp cost etc? nomnomnom).

Pso2 has the following:

Common useless rares past normal mode

Quite rare 7-9*'s which offer some niche (Be it all class, or other factors) in very hard, but sacrifice raw damage.

Then you get almost the 10*'s, even the less powerful ones requiring weeks, sometimes months to hunt to get even one, and even then, over 2/3rds of them don't have anything useful outside of raw stats.

Come superveryhard/ultimate or whatever the next major difficulty will be, I'd love to see this being addressed somewhat (That, and having special weapons that seem.. special instead of just maybe looking better and having better stats -_-)

Took the words right out of my mouth there. But yeah, this would prompt a complete overhaul of the weapon system as we know it. P-wand released now? What? Isn't that weapon traditionally supposed to be endgame?

[Skyly HUmar]

But there are cost efficient ways to get much higher power then a FO can get with just their Rubiascent. Most people just get an Aristin because they main fighter.



Well i dont main fighter, and aristin was going for 200k last i checked so thad still be over 5x what it would cost to get a vifrost. And lets be honest if you arnt using aristin as an all class its a really subpar sword. But like i said before, theres good and bad to this, i just think theres more bad than good because of the ridiculous cost difference.


Thing's I'd like to see...

1) A Falz that doesn't get shit on so easily, but instead is actually scary itself as an enemy (grants & megid lockon...fast movement no weak points etc)

2) Indoors area...seriously ffs I'm tired of all these floating islands in the middle of nowhere.

3) Areas with a purpose other than running in circles like this game, progression through areas through having to fight your way to the final area, and seeing that one land mark that confirms the midway point or near end(caves & the falz hallway come to mind.)

4) More balanced music, it's all over the place in this game to the point it's not that enjoyable most of the time

5) Rare enemies = high chance of rare (lol who am I kidding)

6) Special abilities on weapons, like lavis cannons special, heavens punisher, dark flow etc, currently all just different skins with higher stats.

7) Agressive AI that doesn't flinch so damn much, swarms you easily and doesn't take tea breaks between attacks.

8 No Dudu


Id also like them to bring back unavoidable attacks like delbiter's charge and falz' 3rd form swipe. At this point i dont thing thats possible because of mirage and just guard, but we need a reason for tanks to exist other than just taking little damage and dishing out shit.

[jooozek]

It costs 200k for a vifrost and 4-5 mil for an ikutachi on ship 10. So how exactly is 200k more pricy than a 20-25 mil 50% kagu? Lambda ardillos here are 1.5m so that would be alot more than just 5m to 50% lol.

no one gives a fuck really, your greed = your own worry
really
a single 30% ikutachi is enough for most people
+5% boosters are cheap nowadays (2m on average) so with just 3 swords and 2 boosters you'd be at 46% element

[Dnd]

no one gives a fuck really, your greed = your own worry
really
a single 30% ikutachi is enough for most people
+5% boosters are cheap nowadays (2m on average) so with just 3 swords and 2 boosters you'd be at 46% element

49 if you kept it wind, 47 if you element changed it on the first one. As using a materiel weapon with 30% or higher in the same element as the target is a 3% increase, instead of 2%

[jooozek]

49 if you kept it wind, 47 if you element changed it on the first one. As using a materiel weapon with 30% or higher in the same element as the target is a 3% increase, instead of 2%

the first sword you get comes with 30%
you buy another sword (gives +3) and a +5 booster so you go +8% to 38%
you buy another sword (gives +3) and a +5 booster so you go +8% to 46%
now you can go full greed an get another sword but you will be still lacking 1% so you can get another booster

[Link1275]

I like that idea too, one where you only lose the meseta if you fail. But i think sega wouldnt do it because they would have to get rid of some items like grind risk -1.

Or turn them into items that make you go up 2 grinds with a 50-50 chance of success, eg you'll always go up at least one, but you can go up two sometimes with these items without increasing the needed amount of grinders. They could even implement a lot more items with this system actually.

[Dnd]

the first sword you get comes with 30%
you buy another sword (gives +3) and a +5 booster so you go +8% to 38%
you buy another sword (gives +3) and a +5 booster so you go +8% to 46%
now you can go full greed an get another sword but you will be still lacking 1% so you can get another booster

Ooh, i thought you where on about using 3 swords and 2 boosters in the attribute grinding, my bad -.-

[Z-0]

idk, hannibal has a point.

maxing out melee / ranged classes costs far, far, far more than maxing out a force class, because force just needs the rod (and maybe a talis) and that's about it.

I spent like 10 million on my FO (average) making rod, talis and a unit set.
I've spent far more on my fighter and ranger because they need quite a bit more money to 50% stuff so I'm able to kill shit as fast as possible. 10 million (or more) goes into one weapon, not the entire arsenal.

what's enough for you or the other guy doesn't really mean anything, it's still a flaw of sorts. I do agree you don't really "need" any 50% stuff or anything, but what's the problem if people want it anyway? :\

[BlankM]

Meh, the opposite could be to just cap everything and you pay x amount of meseta for the best weapon in any given area.

There's a lot of room for how "feasible" and "practical" something is to expand vs. efficiency. Its true it costs more to "max out" but it doesn't cost much more to surpass what FO's have. With that logic then affixing should be your main gripe with how quickly costs ramp up for each slot.

The high variability in weapon upgrading means you can take a weapon you like(Usually) and make the best of it with your funds without having an impossible goal.

Personally I'd love for element to be a factor with my rods. I could be on my 3rd seitenweise right now no problem.

[jooozek]

right, because with a single tree with force you can oneshot everything, never worry about PP, dont have to level classes that have nothing to do with your class to get best damage but instead get shit PP skills
how is spending even 20 million bad compared to spending time to grind classes that you don't want to play (hunter to 30 and then fighter to 60) and paying money to get additional skill trees so you can deal better damage in more than 2 places per tree?

[Skyly HUmar]

Well the only swords i see being stronger than rods atm are the slayer and burn sparda, but i know ill probably never find either with my luck.

which brings me back to one thing i said, drop rates. I dont like how dragon slayer (i mean, its the LOL dragon slayer) that dropped like the world was ending in pso is so rare that it goes for 100-300m over here depending on it's %.

[jooozek]

Well the only swords i see being stronger than rods atm are the slayer and burn sparda, but i know ill probably never find either with my luck.

which brings me back to one thing i said, drop rates. I dont like how dragon slayer (i mean, its the LOL dragon slayer) that dropped like the world was ending in pso is so rare that it goes for 100-300m over here depending on it's %.

right, because rods have PAs to use that S-ATK, totally forgot about that
brb putting that overend on my rod because i totally forgot about it

[Skyly HUmar]

right, because rods have PAs to use that S-ATK, totally forgot about that
brb putting that overend on my rod because i totally forgot about it

err, thats kinda like me saying swords get rafoi and mirage escape, lemme breeze through everything with very little risk.

[jooozek]

err, thats kinda like me saying swords get rafoi and mirage escape, lemme breeze through everything with very little risk.

because rafoie does 1958%, yup
seriously, not only techs don't have such moronic multipliers but also the base skill multipliers are shit compared to what rangers and hunters get
also, if you believe that mirage escape is better than step then i dont really know what to say

[BlankM]

right, because with a single tree with force you can oneshot everything, never worry about PP, dont have to level classes that have nothing to do with your class to get best damage but instead get shit PP skills
how is spending even 20 million bad compared to spending time to grind classes that you don't want to play (hunter to 30 and then fighter to 60) and paying money to get additional skill trees so you can deal better damage in more than 2 places per tree?

This^. Literally the purpose of more skill trees exist practically for this and only this. The element system in this game makes this really obnoxious and adds almost nothing interesting gameplay-wise.

FO's have 20+ spells but have to pay 5 bucks to get the most out of using 3/4 per any given area per tree. That is definitely bad design considering they're the only ones that have to do this.


if you believe that mirage escape is better than step then i dont really know what to say

We had a whole discussion on this already where he expressed this lol. Here we go again. Mirage escape and rafoie spam is so good guys! You can be the best Fo ever doing this. Just like the best Hu's spam sonic arrow and guard all day. Yup.

[Skyly HUmar]

Bottom line is that hunters do more damage than forces, this has always been the case lol. Even when zonde was broken i ran circles arround any fo's damage if i could get to it before it died. Force is a mob killer with AoE, you cant have that and the best damage output, even sega sees that lol.

Its a fact that maxing out weapons for non force classes (even techer) costs a shit ton more, and like zio said thats completely up to whoever is doing it. Thats all im saying. Id be happy if they got rid of element all together and went back to the old species % of pso, or if they made element grinding cheaper, but thats not gonna happen.

EDIT: and yes i do admit that force trees are really bad at how they kinda make you switch elements to do your best. Thats just one of sega's too hard assed to fix flaws.

[Z-0]

well I dunno, even as fighter and ranger you might have to level up a class which you don't want to play (hunter, specifically) if you're actually wanting to get better damage.

although I have to agree that FO skill trees are just horribly designed. Having to switch out trees often or the fact you have to buy it to do "good damage" (nevermind better damage) is really bad game design.

I have extra skill trees for other classes (Hunter and Techer), but unlike Force you don't actually need them and they're actually optional, which is what it should be like for all classes.

[BlankM]

Playing Hunter for an almost 200% damage increase is not so bad. Playing a watered down force to solve some PP problems and use 3 other elements, 2 of which aren't relevant...I didn't even bother.

[Z-0]

just realised I have terrible comprehension.

*whistles*

[jooozek]

gunslash, plenty of good all-class rifles, best rifle in the game being also all-class and 10* thus shopable (sup holy ray) well, that chrome dragon rifle is better if you go for the chrome dragon set buit it requires 606 s-def so you wont
launchers selection is poor, yes, but additional bullet and homing emission should do what you like through the whole levelling
meanwhile what does a force get out of playing hunter? absolutely nothing
it only gets a little better when you get FI but you still need to level up quite a bit before you can equip umbla stick

[Sayara]

When I am FO/HU i at least withstand alot more damage compared to previous FO/Te adventures.
Plus Zondeel is less worrysome with a Rod, SHIT 8 ENEMIES HERE. Wait dodge normally no problem!)

[Agitated_AT]

good and well thought out gamedesign is what i want from pso1 to sum it up. pso2 gives the impression that idiots are steering the wheel

[yoshiblue]

Or their hearts are in different places.

[Shadowth117]

good and well thought out gamedesign is what i want from pso1 to sum it up. pso2 gives the impression that idiots are steering the wheel

I disagree to an extent. The core gameplay is very nice. You have multiple classes, and you can subclass these for access to more abilities (though lack of ability to equip those weapons right off is something else). You have your basic attacks and then you have photon arts/techniques which are your main attacks. Different enemies die better to different elements. And TO AN EXTENT, the random levels are kinda cool after playing PSO/PSU with their set areas. Bosses are also rather... well boss and compared to those of the previous games are pretty cool.

Unfortunately, the skill tree system has clear problems, sub classing is very unbalanced and seems to overpower classes in ways it shouldn't, and the random thing with quests kinda blows after one gets acquainted with the novelty of it. Elements, as far as techniques are concerned, don't really work out like intended because of skill tree layouts. Normal enemies themselves are generally very weak and pose no threat to any average player with more than a week's worth of play experience. Some bosses could certainly be a bit harder clearly. And of course, class balance is a problem with almost any game that has multiple of them.

There's good points here and bad points. I'm just going to be hopeful that SEGA takes at least some of the problems to heart. Episode 2 will probably drastically change the game one way or another as far as mechanics go. I just hope its in a good direction.

[Shinmarizu]

I disagree to an extent. The core gameplay is very nice. You have multiple classes, and you can subclass these for access to more abilities (though lack of ability to equip those weapons right off is something else). You have your basic attacks and then you have photon arts/techniques which are your main attacks. Different enemies die better to different elements. And TO AN EXTENT, the random levels are kinda cool after playing PSO/PSU with their set areas. Bosses are also rather... well boss and compared to those of the previous games are pretty cool.

Unfortunately, the skill tree system has clear problems, sub classing is very unbalanced and seems to overpower classes in ways it shouldn't, and the random thing with quests kinda blows after one gets acquainted with the novelty of it. Elements, as far as techniques are concerned, don't really work out like intended because of skill tree layouts. Normal enemies themselves are generally very weak and pose no threat to any average player with more than a week's worth of play experience. Some bosses could certainly be a bit harder clearly. And of course, class balance is a problem with almost any game that has multiple of them.

There's good points here and bad points. I'm just going to be hopeful that SEGA takes at least some of the problems to heart. Episode 2 will probably drastically change the game one way or another as far as mechanics go. I just hope its in a good direction.

^This. Everything in here seconded.

[gravityvx]

I disagree to an extent. The core gameplay is very nice. You have multiple classes, and you can subclass these for access to more abilities (though lack of ability to equip those weapons right off is something else). You have your basic attacks and then you have photon arts/techniques which are your main attacks. Different enemies die better to different elements. And TO AN EXTENT, the random levels are kinda cool after playing PSO/PSU with their set areas. Bosses are also rather... well boss and compared to those of the previous games are pretty cool.

Unfortunately, the skill tree system has clear problems, sub classing is very unbalanced and seems to overpower classes in ways it shouldn't, and the random thing with quests kinda blows after one gets acquainted with the novelty of it. Elements, as far as techniques are concerned, don't really work out like intended because of skill tree layouts. Normal enemies themselves are generally very weak and pose no threat to any average player with more than a week's worth of play experience. Some bosses could certainly be a bit harder clearly. And of course, class balance is a problem with almost any game that has multiple of them.

There's good points here and bad points. I'm just going to be hopeful that SEGA takes at least some of the problems to heart. Episode 2 will probably drastically change the game one way or another as far as mechanics go. I just hope its in a good direction.

The core gameplay is nice on paper, but when put into action it falls flat on its face in terms of fun. It's even worse now that MPA have practically died out, I can't even log on anymore and just run around with a 12/12 MPA like I used to, instead I'm stuck looking for an AQ group these days(which hilariously enough still has enemies cleared at same speed no matter the level). Everything is just too damn weak in this game compared to how insanely unbalanced almost every class is with subs. IMO the bosses for the most part are alright in terms of balance(the "main" bosses anyway), but once again it comes down to how freaking unbalanced the classes are. If they just brought everything up to par with the classes themselves(AI included) I'd enjoy this game a lot more.

One of the main culprits of this, is weak bullet...this just sucks all the fun out of killing a boss, every time. From my point of view, it just looks like segas looking for more ways to make enemies weaker than the player instead of balancing them both equally for challenge(I mean, wtf look at falz, of all enemies dude has like 15 weak points). The only thing they do every update is toss on some more HP, which hilariously enough still ends up dying in 1 or 2 hits anyway even if there's clearly a level gap of about 5-6 unless it's a boss. After nearly a year of practically nothing changing besides classes getting stronger, enemies becoming weaker it's pretty clear they don't intend to change that. The tower, while it looks nice I'm almost positive it will be no different aside from some silly nonsense like kill all the mechs but dont touch a darker.

[~Aya~]

Music discs that can use anywhere from pso.. want for burning rangers or other music discs...

[Skyly HUmar]

Music discs that can use anywhere from pso.. want for burning rangers or other music discs...

that, i wanna troll people with the dreams siong durring falz.

[gigawuts]

I miss soloing being totally viable without completely gutting your chance of finding items due to fewer enemies.

I also miss the "challenge" of crawling through a dungeon-like map instead of running to a3, and finding items that don't need a huge investment to be actually good.

[Skyly HUmar]

I miss soloing being totally viable without completely gutting your chance of finding items due to fewer enemies.

I also miss the "challenge" of crawling through a dungeon-like map instead of running to a3, and finding items that don't need a huge investment to be actually good.

Actually now that you say that, i dont really get why they reduce spawns for less people, i mean sure, the enemies arnt gonna die as fast but the way the game is im sure youd still be able to kill them all pretty easily.

[gigawuts]

They say that you don't get less with fewer players, but more with more players. As a reward for playing with more players.

But they know what they're doing, and so do we. They're making it so it's nearly impossible to get items with a full party or MPA, nevermind when solo, so like hell is anyone going to play solo. You're not rewarded for a full party, you're penalized for anything less than a full one.

[Zekester]

I would love to see Units/Armors/Shields actually look cool and not need it to be a "set".
I'd rather the units drop from enemies instead of code rewards, and for the love of god, enough with the boss units. Just so many of them.

PSO had some of the coolest looking Armors/Shields and MAGs. GIVE ME RATI

I'd also love to see Delsaber make a return. If there were any creatures I was afraid of getting rapped by, it was Delsaber.

[Xaeris]

There's not much I miss about PSO1 in comparison to PSO2. There is one thing that persistently sticks out in my mind though. The items in PSO1 seemed more interesting to me. I'm not talking about their special attacks; I think photon arts do a better job of achieving the same thing. Rather, I'm talking about the little things. Things like changing a weapon by using an item on it, or combining it with another weapon, or killing an obscene amount of enemies with it, or becoming more powerful when close to a character of the opposite sex. They were small things, but they gave the game's arsenal a lot more flavor, especially in contrast to PSO2 where 95% of rare weapons are obtained through enemy drops, and then 100% of them are grinded to unleash their power.

[gigawuts]

There's not much I miss about PSO1 in comparison to PSO2. There is one thing that persistently sticks out in my mind though. The items in PSO1 seemed more interesting to me. I'm not talking about their special attacks; I think photon arts do a better job of achieving the same thing. Rather, I'm talking about the little things. Things like changing a weapon by using an item on it, or combining it with another weapon, or killing an obscene amount of enemies with it, or becoming more powerful when close to a character of the opposite sex. They were small things, but they gave the game's arsenal a lot more flavor, especially in contrast to PSO2 where 95% of rare weapons are obtained through enemy drops, and then 100% of them are grinded to unleash their power.

That's what I mean when I say "unique items," which I say a lot.

PSO1's variety of items was what gave the game such incredible longevity. Not having to farm 2,000 bosses enemies to get 1 item, but farming 100 bosses 20 times to get 20 items that were all a separate piece of your arsenal and - best of all - you'd get these over the course of the farming 2,000 total bosses, not at the end. You might not bring it all the time, or not even use them if you didn't like them, but they each did different things that would appeal to different people.

That's been replaced with a 5% JA bonus. For +10ing something 4 times.

[Skyly HUmar]

I would love to see Units/Armors/Shields actually look cool and not need it to be a "set".
I'd rather the units drop from enemies instead of code rewards, and for the love of god, enough with the boss units. Just so many of them.

PSO had some of the coolest looking Armors/Shields and MAGs. GIVE ME RATI

I'd also love to see Delsaber make a return. If there were any creatures I was afraid of getting rapped by, it was Delsaber.

OOOOH yes them mags. We need more bad ass looking mags instead of the new wierd looking teddy bear ones. Id really love to see rati, gaelgiel and eleanor come back.

But before they stop making boss units cmon sega give us a good melee oriented melee set X.x.

Also id like a 4th slot for visuals like psu had, i dont like dropping my preformance just to have one on.

[Agitated_AT]

I disagree to an extent. The core gameplay is very nice. You have multiple classes, and you can subclass these for access to more abilities (though lack of ability to equip those weapons right off is something else). You have your basic attacks and then you have photon arts/techniques which are your main attacks. Different enemies die better to different elements. And TO AN EXTENT, the random levels are kinda cool after playing PSO/PSU with their set areas. Bosses are also rather... well boss and compared to those of the previous games are pretty cool.

Unfortunately, the skill tree system has clear problems, sub classing is very unbalanced and seems to overpower classes in ways it shouldn't, and the random thing with quests kinda blows after one gets acquainted with the novelty of it. Elements, as far as techniques are concerned, don't really work out like intended because of skill tree layouts. Normal enemies themselves are generally very weak and pose no threat to any average player with more than a week's worth of play experience. Some bosses could certainly be a bit harder clearly. And of course, class balance is a problem with almost any game that has multiple of them.

There's good points here and bad points. I'm just going to be hopeful that SEGA takes at least some of the problems to heart. Episode 2 will probably drastically change the game one way or another as far as mechanics go. I just hope its in a good direction.

Yeah, totally agree. The things it does right, it does very right. But everything built around it just screams "why". The battle mechanics are the best you'd find in an MMO period, but yet they ruin it with such questionable directions. It's strange coming from a company with such a legacy and identity with good gamedesign. Nothing of that is recognizable in this game, in any game of theirs lately.

[SuperChoco]

Honestly?

Not a single thing.

[gigawuts]

The battle mechanics are better than what you'd find in other MMO's because PSO2 isn't like the other MMO's - it isn't even really an MMO. You don't have hundreds of players in any location but the lobby, and even that barely manages to chug along while showing barely any for most people.

You don't even have dozens of players in an instance which, by the way, is what literally everything in the game is - an instance. You have at the most one dozen. In three separate parties.

PSO was barely considered as an "MMO" back when the definition of that word was limited by the computers you played them on - and the computers couldn't handle much more than what PSO showed. Now that they can, the definition of MMO has shifted with the tides.

PSO2 is a cooperative online ARPG. I like it that way. I liked PSO1 that way. I want it to stay that way.

[Valimer]

Well, it's hard to compare because of the wide gap in graphics but it would be really nice to have some more HUmar suits reminiscent of PSO1

[Agitated_AT]

The battle mechanics are better than what you'd find in other MMO's because PSO2 isn't like the other MMO's - it isn't even really an MMO. You don't have hundreds of players in any location but the lobby, and even that barely manages to chug along while showing barely any for most people.

You don't even have dozens of players in an instance which, by the way, is what literally everything in the game is - an instance. You have at the most one dozen. In three separate parties.

PSO was barely considered as an "MMO" back when the definition of that word was limited by the computers you played them on - and the computers couldn't handle much more than what PSO showed. Now that they can, the definition of MMO has shifted with the tides.

PSO2 is a cooperative online ARPG. I like it that way. I liked PSO1 that way. I want it to stay that way.

Yeah true. I use the term very softly just to give comparison to a collective type of game, which is either co op action rpg or open world mmo's. But yeah even in the former, PSO wins when it comes to combat mechanics

[AgemFrostMage]

Not much other than PP being spent only after using your skill not while it charges. Also give ice a direct attack that can go in the air like Rafoie but ice. And of course more costumes.

[Zeota]

One thing I'd love to see is more variation in boss arenas. Like how the gol dragon in ep2 came out of the big screen in the room and you could sometimes see yourself on the screens while you were fighting.

[HIT0SHI]

Opa-Opa mag, Crazy Tune sword, Elec Distortion saber, Chu-Chu Rocket! mags, hamgurger mag, SEGA console mags, Robopitch Launcher, Samba Maracas (problably replaced with Egg Blasters *cries in the corner*), Ruby Bullet pistol (NOT gonna happen sadly), Tension Blasters mech guns, Caleum Fluge sword, Love Inferno launcher/lazer cannon, Lazer Pannon, Halva Blasted spear and RAcast parts....

So many things ;-;

[gigawuts]

Opa-Opa mag, Crazy Tune sword, Elec Distortion saber, Chu-Chu Rocket! mags, hamgurger mag, SEGA console mags, Robopitch Launcher, Samba Maracas (problably replaced with Egg Blasters *cries in the corner*), Ruby Bullet pistol (NOT gonna happen sadly), Tension Blasters mech guns, Caleum Fluge sword, Love Inferno launcher/lazer cannon, Lazer Pannon, Halva Blasted spear and RAcast parts....

So many things ;-;

More wacky games instead of the serious kind of stuff Sega is churning out now would be ripe for crossovers, the more bizarre the better.

And I would kill for a Chu Chu Rocket sequel, which would make a crossover totally plausible too.

[Shadowth117]

More wacky games instead of the serious kind of stuff Sega is churning out now would be ripe for crossovers, the more bizarre the better.

And I would kill for a Chu Chu Rocket sequel, which would make a crossover totally plausible too.

coughsoniccrossovercough

[gigawuts]

pls no

i didn't mean like that

oh god

what have i done

[Punisher106]

I'd say a better machine boss, but to be honest? Varder is probably my favorite boss in the series. We need more bosses like him, where you run around something ENORMOUS and break things rather quickly, instead of just hammering on a single weakspot until the sucker drops. I love running around the ship, blowing up the machine gun and rocket launchers, as well as those front laser cannons, and then climbing aboard to finally take out those missile bays that have been bugging me while I was taking care of business down below.Alsobeingshotoutofthatcannonisreallyfun.

I love smashing robots so much, and PSO1 got me into such an addiction. Vol Opt was fun, breaking the monitors, and by breaking the monitors, I mean stand in the middle of the room and Gifoie/Razonde spam on my FOnewm. Falz in PSO1 was amazing, my favorite Falz I've fought. Elder's okay, but that feels more like "BREAK ALL OF THE ARMS OR I'LL SNAP YOUR NECKS!". I do want to see it where it's like "AAAH, YOU GOT ME, I GIVE UP. NAH JUST KIDDING. DIVINE PUNISHMENT" or something of the like. You know, when you would beat the first and second form of Falz on Hard/VH/Ult, and suddenly, he changes into some sort of OHMYGODWHATTHEFUCKISTHAT thing that can easily faceroll you. Then again, I have over 1100 deaths in PSO2...

But yeah. More ro-bosses, and another good, climatic Falz.

[thematesV2]

I would like to see rare monsters that look vibrantly different from others, not just corrupted, or whatever.

also, I know it's been mentioned before, but equip that work in tandem with other players. stronger when closer to opposite sex, and equipment that can be upgraded/morphed/combined only in certain circumstances. Only in an electrical storm during an aurora can the x weapon be combined with the Y weapon to form the ultimate in mechanical photon blade/shooter/wand....

other than that, Different types of missions, instead of just kill everything, or Srank. how about some survival missions, or wave after wave missions.

I don't know. I loved PSO, but I enjoy PSO2 too. no real complaints.

[Jakosifer]

Male CASTs having hilarious heads.

[Coatl]

I want for more fields like Sanctum that have that PSO feel to them. 3:

[gigawuts]

Male CASTs having hilarious heads.

You HAVE seen that hysterically tiny recent head, right? Hats are held up by nothing but the antennae.

It looks like the head from an 80's transformer, where the body is the size of a grapefruit but the head is a freaking pea.

We NEED more of THAT.

[Coatl]

We need more this.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3VEKnkfHjAk76rLdDRCJ6rNp1w1045 xT73g9YnapDsuubRAHahttp://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQlQ8Yy5X2COWsvA8sdEg0FRvRQGJEYN uGy-Z7thhQLW6iVniHZWw

If they're going to make male casts look like mobile suits, they might as well pull out all the stops right? :wacko:

[The Walrus]

God if we got actual mobile suit sets I would start using my cast again :/

[Jakosifer]

OH YEAH
WHAT HAPPENED TO MALES HAVING UNIQUE HAIRSTYLES


You HAVE seen that hysterically tiny recent head, right? Hats are held up by nothing but the antennae.

It looks like the head from an 80's transformer, where the body is the size of a grapefruit but the head is a freaking pea.

We NEED more of THAT.

I haven't seen a Male CAST in like a month man.

[Mekhana]

One joined my team today was quite shocked.

[gigawuts]

OH YEAH
WHAT HAPPENED TO MALES HAVING UNIQUE HAIRSTYLES



I haven't seen a Male CAST in like a month man.

I tried signing in yesterday but the game crashed and went overboard with the ram, pso2.exe wouldn't close out, and I'm tired of rebooting because gameguard is a piece of shit so yeah.

It eventually had a memory error and fully closed down, then I signed in and remembered there's nothing exciting to do so I signed out again.

[Emp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRIgYElDBXg

Sega needs to revist the time when we had to fight the oncoming invasion of native's back in PSU.

[Link1275]

Opa-Opa mag, Crazy Tune sword, Elec Distortion saber, Chu-Chu Rocket! mags, hamgurger mag, SEGA console mags, Robopitch Launcher, Samba Maracas (problably replaced with Egg Blasters *cries in the corner*), Ruby Bullet pistol (NOT gonna happen sadly), Tension Blasters mech guns, Caleum Fluge sword, Love Inferno launcher/lazer cannon, Lazer Pannon, Halva Blasted spear and RAcast parts....

So many things ;-;
They were both in PSP2, so I can't see why they can't both be in PSO2.

[Sealco555]

I want regular enemies that are actually difficult. Nothing in PSO2 compares to the double Indi Belra, triple Ob Lily room, or fighting an Indi Belra, Gran Sorcerer, and Delsaber at the same time. Signo Beats are a laughable downgrade from Sinow Reds/Blues. Most PSO2 bosses aren't as scary as a single Delbiter or Ill Gill, and god save you if more than one of those showed up at once. Rockbear was a normal enemy.

That being said, I do think combat in PSO2 is much more fun than in PSO1. We just need normal enemies that don't roll over and die within a second of spawning.

[The Walrus]

To be fair with a decent party in PSO1 most normal enemies died really fast too.

[Skyly HUmar]

To be fair with a decent party in PSO1 most normal enemies died really fast too.

Yeah, in this game that happens in ANY party, not just good ones.

[Link1275]

To be fair with a decent party in PSO1 most normal enemies died really fast too.
I can solo kill enemies that are at least 4 levels ahead of me without a problem. I even took out a level 35 Gwanahada at level 31 once.

[The Walrus]

I can solo kill enemies that are at least 4 levels ahead of me without a problem. I even took out a level 35 Gwanahada at level 31 once.

I fail to see your point. This isn't the kind of game where stats are everything and being a couple levels below an enemy means you're fucked. This is a game that cares more about your skill then your stats, even if it is piss easy.

I can easily rush through PSOBB with group of 4 without any issues, all we need to do is make sure we don't all wipe from certain attacks and we're golden.


Spoilers: None of the PSO games are all that hard. PSO just felt that way cause of the shit it pulled at times.

[gigawuts]

Most tough PSO1 enemies were only hard if you had low ATA so you missed, which meant they weren't slowed down or had their attacks interrupted by flinch, or if you had low enough ATP that you did piddlyshit damage.

Also, most of the toughest enemies compare less to common enemies and more to minibosses. Back then they were more like minibosses too, just a bit weaker and thrown around more.

[Link1275]

I fail to see your point. This isn't the kind of game where stats are everything and being a couple levels below an enemy means you're fucked. This is a game that cares more about your skill then your stats, even if it is piss easy.

I can easily rush through PSOBB with group of 4 without any issues, all we need to do is make sure we don't all wipe from certain attacks and we're golden.


Spoilers: None of the PSO games are all that hard. PSO just felt that way cause of the shit it pulled at times.
Alright go make a char on crap serv and go straight right into ruins. Then grab an under leveled class on PSO2 and go straight into any map that's significantly higher than you. You'll see what I mean. You can even do this as late in the series as PSP2/I. Make a char, grind to twenty, go out on a level 65+ B-Rank mission. IF you clear the first room it's a miracle. In PSO2 I can go in and kill almost anything that's 4+ levels above me. Probably 5-10 or more looking at Falz, and I would only consider myself an average player; especially considering my crappy pc.

[gigawuts]

That's because defense is significantly lower than offense, and instead the emphasis is on HP and invuln frames. Every game in the world with invuln frames can be beaten without dying, at level 1.

[Link1275]

That's because defense is significantly lower than offense, and instead the emphasis is on HP and invuln frames. Every game in the world with invuln frames can be beaten without dying, at level 1.
This is very, very true.

Btw. Did I mention my character is a FIHUnewm, not a FIHUcast? And I can still take on what the game has to challenge me with, with very few deaths usually.

[gigawuts]

Newms are not remotely as significantly disadvantaged as people claim. They're comparable to humans, with only HP significantly weaker. As the game is, anything that kills a HUnewm in 2 hits will almost always kill a HUcast in 2 hits as well. Now, if casts had a bonus to invuln frames, that would matter.

The only time race really matters is if you want to do techs as a cast. That's it, really. Nothing else is remotely as disadvantaged as a cast is with TATK and tdef.

edit: Oh, and that's the other thing I miss. Classes, race, and gender being balanced better than this. Forces were balanced amongst eachother with innate bonuses to techs. A FOnewearl may have had the best MST in the game, but if it was AOE you wanted the FOnewm had better hidden bonuses for GI and RA level techs. Even FOmars had better GI damage. FOnewearls were given simple techs bonuses, plus megid penetration. FOmarls had grants. Females had resta & anti range, humans had S&D range.

Each class had race/gender balancing like that, with variations in ATA, ATP, traps, techs, and tech levels to balance each class so you were never strictly worse than anyone else. That is just completely gone. They really need to give a third class option, with just traps and techs, and let us select between freeze/confuse traps or support techs (S&D, resta, anti) without changing our main or subclass. Then give casts an innate bonus to trap capacity, range, and heavily reduced setup time, newmans & humans a 15% reduction in cost for those techs. Anyone could select anything, but race would start to matter more than just the gear you can can't equip.

[The Walrus]

Alright go make a char on crap serv and go straight right into ruins. Then grab an under leveled class on PSO2 and go straight into any map that's significantly higher than you. You'll see what I mean. You can even do this as late in the series as PSP2/I. Make a char, grind to twenty, go out on a level 65+ B-Rank mission. IF you clear the first room it's a miracle. In PSO2 I can go in and kill almost anything that's 4+ levels above me. Probably 5-10 or more looking at Falz, and I would only consider myself an average player; especially considering my crappy pc.

I already know what you're talking about and mentioned the difference between the games. PSO2 is more action then rpg, whereas PSO and PSU were more RPG then action. Therefore stats mean a whole hell of a lot more in PSO and PSU than PSO2. This is why you're able to take on things at a much higher level then you. Plus, ya know i-frames like giga mentioned.

[~Aya~]

More cute clothes without pantsu showing plz. Kthx.......


Dont hate...... its truth....

[Link1275]

I already know what you're talking about and mentioned the difference between the games. PSO2 is more action then rpg, whereas PSO and PSU were more RPG then action. Therefore stats mean a whole hell of a lot more in PSO and PSU than PSO2. This is why you're able to take on things at a much higher level then you. Plus, ya know i-frames like giga mentioned.
Still. Being able to oneshot everything with a single uncharged level 10 deadly archer isn't good game design if it's 10 levels above you. I don't care how good your DS is(I'm using a Failnaught +10 with 50% dark, EXP Boost I, Power II, and Elder Soul), this is just unrealistically easy. Sega needs to buff enemies. And I don't mean just they're HP, I mean AI and their attack and other stats too. They need a full buff, and they need a difficulty scaling so that they get more HP with more people.

[The Walrus]

Still. Being able to oneshot everything with a single uncharged level 10 deadly archer isn't good game design if it's 10 levels above you. I don't care how good your DS is(I'm using a Failnaught +10 with 50% dark, EXP Boost I, Power II, and Elder Soul), this is just unrealistically easy. Sega needs to buff enemies. And I don't mean just they're HP, I mean AI and their attack and other stats too. They need a full buff, and they need a difficulty scaling so that they get more HP with more people.

As it is now Sega is actively increasing enemy AI at certain levels. For example AQ enemies are a bit more aggressive than their V.Hard counterparts. That said they could do to increase low rank enemies AI a bit more. Maybe make V.hard AI the standard and start AQ AI at V.Hard. Hell apparently normal enemies are getting another AI buff and new attacks when the next difficulty comes out anyway. I also agree that we need normal enemies HP to increase, all that is really needed though is make it scale per number of players. HP values as is aren't really bad for solo play.

As for their attack, eh, I think it's fine as is. I typically die in 3-4 hits to normal enemies, 2-3 for most bosses, on V.hard and up. Their damage really isn't the problem. It's that despite the damage they can't really do shit most of the time.

[gravityvx]

Increasing HP of an enemy is pointless without increasing their defense vs players absurd attack damage, as sega has shown over the past year or so. Enemies need more defense, and less flinch locking over more HP increases or to go along with those two in order for it not to be completly pointless. I can promise you if everything wasnt bouncing in the air or falling all over the place the combat would be a bit more plausible, but in it's current state it's just flich lock/knockup/1shot. Most enemies can't even put up a fight besides bosses, they have nothing but high damage but can hardly ever put that damage to use since they hardly have a chance to fight. The current game is like a pso ranger walking into a room with a hacked spread needle with 40% of everything, nothings gonna move, shits just gonna die.

[Link1275]

Increasing HP of an enemy is pointless without increasing their defense vs players absurd attack damage, as sega has shown over the past year or so. Enemies need more defense, and less flinch locking over more HP increases or to go along with those two in order for it not to be completly pointless. I can promise you if everything wasnt bouncing in the air or falling all over the place the combat would be a bit more plausible, but in it's current state it's just flich lock/knockup/1shot. Most enemies can't even put up a fight besides bosses, they have nothing but high damage but can hardly ever put that damage to use since they hardly have a chance to fight. The current game is like a pso ranger walking into a room with a hacked spread needle with 40% of everything, nothings gonna move, shits just gonna die.
Maybe we should ditch some of the higher speed combat features to balance stuff then.

[Shadowth117]

Maybe we should ditch some of the higher speed combat features to balance stuff then.

...or, I know this is gonna sound shocking so bear with me here, we could have enemies that move really fast as well :O

I know, its blasphemy.

[gravityvx]

Maybe we should ditch some of the higher speed combat features to balance stuff then.

Why would any feature need to be removed to balance combat? Balance to me would just be much more aggressive(actually trying to kill you, no long winded animations, not waiting around sipping tea) AI that has actual defense along with their HP and only start flinching frequently when they're far out of your league, like the original pso. The combat would still be fast paced, but slower kills and more satisfying runs through areas as compared to running through nearly 1 shotting everything like youre taking a peacful stroll through the park.

[Du1337]

I would like to see a multiboss run EQ like u had that 1 quest in PSO.
An EQ that is... not a quest that u can do over and over again.

[Emp]

I would like to see a multiboss run EQ like u had that 1 quest in PSO.
An EQ that is... not a quest that u can do over and over again.

That could be certain floors during the Extreme quests coming May 15th. Multiboss floors needed to be cleared in certain times.

[Link1275]

Why would any feature need to be removed to balance combat? Balance to me would just be much more aggressive(actually trying to kill you, no long winded animations, not waiting around sipping tea) AI that has actual defense along with their HP and only start flinching frequently when they're far out of your league, like the original pso. The combat would still be fast paced, but slower kills and more satisfying runs through areas as compared to running through nearly 1 shotting everything like youre taking a peacful stroll through the park.
Because it's Sega(or more specifically Sonic Team actually), if you expect them to perfectly balance the enemies with their current crew you're a nutter.

I would like to see a multiboss run EQ like u had that 1 quest in PSO.
An EQ that is... not a quest that u can do over and over again.
I don't know. I kind of liked Towards the Future. And with this game it would be less good leveling and more a just for fun quest here. I'd personally rather it just be a permanent quest, especially where bosses don't give enough exp in PSO2 to make it that worth it like it was in PSO1.

[gigawuts]

An EQ that's nothing but boss codes would be great. In the halloween desert EQ my entire MPA ran into a 3x tranmizer code in one grid, and when someone went to heal in the next grid a triple gwanahda code spawned.

It was hilarious. At any given time at least 3 people were dead. We nearly had an MPA wipe, between the 3 way crossfire, vacuuming, and dozens of tentacles grabbing and swiping. Numerous times people dropped a moon, died, and resed themselves. I think one guy did it once, then people died immediately after he mooned, so he mooned again - died and mooned himself a second time. I, also, mooned myself.

To top it off, this was in one of those areas with a very tiny sandpit with a walkway around it, so there was very little maneuvering room to evade anything at all, and absolutely zero cover whatsoever.

edit: In fact, I really badly miss that style of gameplay, where enemies were less cannon fodder and more a remotely threatening force constantly creeping towards you. If they did an EQ where you didn't have invuln frames, but fewer enemies spawned, you and the enemies had more HP, and enemies were constantly coming towards you instead of flittering around I'd absolutely love it.

[Shadowth117]

I would like to see a multiboss run EQ like u had that 1 quest in PSO.
An EQ that is... not a quest that u can do over and over again.

It ain't an EQ, but the Sanctum TA mission already does this....

[Link1275]

It ain't an EQ, but the Sanctum TA mission already does this....
Sanctum TA doesn't feature all of the bosses in one mission though, just two of them from Amduscia and some amduscia minibosses.

[gravityvx]

Because it's Sega(or more specifically Sonic Team actually), if you expect them to perfectly balance the enemies with their current crew you're a nutter.


My point exactly, I don't ever expect the game to have anything remotely challenging when it comes tto enemy balance. This is stuff I wish they would do but already know will never happen, there will never be a perfect balance for a game but there should be balance to a point where it's not so obviously unbalanced. Getting out slutty & ugly outfits is more important than balanced gameplay, which clearly shows given how ridiculous HU sub(and weak bullet) is, yet barely took a hit(and they nerfed HU of all things instead of ranger multipliers).

They promote challenge with tower, but given their track record this past year not holding my breath...I don't think the team doing the balancing understands how to balance, has never actaually tested these classes or just doesn't care. My money is on 1 & 3. They could add more abilities to all enemies like what was supposedly datmined, but guess what? They're still going to die in a couple seconds. This is why new content is never really that exciting.

[Link1275]

My point exactly, I don't ever expect the game to have anything remotely challenging when it comes tto enemy balance. This is stuff I wish they would do but already know will never happen, there will never be a perfect balance for a game but there should be balance to a point where it's not so obviously unbalanced. Getting out slutty & ugly outfits is more important than balanced gameplay, which clearly shows given how ridiculous HU sub(and weak bullet) is, yet barely took a hit(and they nerfed HU of all things instead of ranger multipliers).

They promote challenge with tower, but given their track record this past year not holding my breath...I don't think the team doing the balancing understands how to balance, has never actaually tested these classes or just doesn't care. My money is on 1 & 3. They could add more abilities to all enemies like what was supposedly datmined, but guess what? They're still going to die in a couple seconds. This is why new content is never really that exciting.
Well, balancing goes back to the old money scales they used to use. You can remove something or add something to either side. In this case the humans are heavier than the enemy AI, so we can keep adding to the AI or remove from the humans.

[Du1337]

That could be certain floors during the Extreme quests coming May 15th. Multiboss floors needed to be cleared in certain times.

would be gr8 yus yus.

[Saffran]

You know, we've just had a player enquete. Did you ask Sega to buff enemies?
I did. I flat out told them. We could keep on doing this until they cave in. Just saying.

[EvilMag]

You know, we've just had a player enquete. Did you ask Sega to buff enemies?
I did. I flat out told them. We could keep on doing this until they cave in. Just saying.

We'll do that then the JP playerbase will complain that the enemies are too hard.

[~Aya~]

Could let me grind my own stuff without failure chances. I'd be cool with that. ^^

Oh, oh oh oh! And events! You know, things that could bring even the most disgruntled mofo's back. ^,~

Events sound great! I wanna event where you get to snowboard down mountains in tundra and fight monsters and stuff while doing so.... ^~^

[AgemFrostMage]

Well, balancing goes back to the old money scales they used to use. You can remove something or add something to either side. In this case the humans are heavier than the enemy AI, so we can keep adding to the AI or remove from the humans.

But mobs aren't supposed to be a match for players unless there's a huge bunch of them. Also the flitting they do is to anticipate player attacks since they seem timed right for spells. Keep the Y or whatever button held then release after they dodge, especially a rafoie since that's a fast spell, or megid with its homing abilities. This of course only for force.

Also would like not being rooted for half a second after using dodge and higher field of view to see enemies behind me. Trying to keep all mobs in front to avoid back attacks gets annoying sometimes.

[Link1275]

But mobs aren't supposed to be a match for players unless there's a huge bunch of them. Also the flitting they do is to anticipate player attacks since they seem timed right for spells. Keep the Y or whatever button held then release after they dodge, especially a rafoie since that's a fast spell, or megid with its homing abilities. This of course only for force.

Also would like not being rooted for half a second after using dodge and higher field of view to see enemies behind me. Trying to keep all mobs in front to avoid back attacks gets annoying sometimes.
You're right. Mobs shouldn't be on par with us. They should be the heavy part in that equation so that we can have an actual challenge, the only exception being story and normal so that early players don't quit and people can just get the story done.


We'll do that then the JP playerbase will complain that the enemies are too hard.

If they're actually happy about the currently difficulty, I don't know what to say. And if they did complain that the enemies were way too hard their culture has changed quite a bit.

[Yamishi]

I'd like to see the game come to Windows Phones (as opposed to just Android and iOS). I mean, Microsoft Japan and Sega have been pretty close about this, with the promotional items right around game launch, and Windows Phones are increasing in popularity.

For anyone who wants to suggest this in that player survey, use this text:

"ウィンドウズの携帯のためにもファンタジースターオンライン2のアプリを開発してください。"


/shamelesspimpingofmyownagenda

[Meji]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already, but one thing I'd love to have is the old Delsaber/Delbiter enemies. To be frank, I've never had as much respect for those enemies as I've had for any other mob in any other game. Whenever you entered a room and saw the silhouette of either of these two, I know I always clinched my controller a little harder.

I could imagine the Delsabers to be like smaller versions of Falz Hunar, jumping around a lot and blocking most attacks.

[Tyruka]

I know this would be annoying but. I miss the East/West Towers! I like the battle music and such, ah old times.

[Saffran]

>But mobs aren't supposed to be a match for players unless there's a huge bunch of them.
Are we playing the same game? Did you read the tutorial scenes?
Any single given enemy should be able to take you out, unless you've geared or leveled.

> And if they did complain that the enemies were way too hard
Why do you think Goran Zoran was nerfed?
Why do you think our spells don't affect the Gilnas anymore in the Lilipa Rescue EC?
Why do you think Lisa started using Weak Bullet?
Why do you think the "no-small-fry-at-the-boss" glitch was never fixed?

Some enemies *are* frustrating, like the rare snow cats, but that's no reason to make the difficulty foolproof. The PSO2 team has a lot of ideas, but they severely lack balls.

[Z-0]

Just letting you know that the Gilnas does take damage, it's just that they blocked NPCs from damaging it (which was a correct change imo, because NPCs are dumb).

[AgemFrostMage]

>But mobs aren't supposed to be a match for players unless there's a huge bunch of them.
Are we playing the same game? Did you read the tutorial scenes?
Any single given enemy should be able to take you out, unless you've geared or leveled.

> And if they did complain that the enemies were way too hard
Why do you think Goran Zoran was nerfed?
Why do you think our spells don't affect the Gilnas anymore in the Lilipa Rescue EC?
Why do you think Lisa started using Weak Bullet?
Why do you think the "no-small-fry-at-the-boss" glitch was never fixed?

Some enemies *are* frustrating, like the rare snow cats, but that's no reason to make the difficulty foolproof. The PSO2 team has a lot of ideas, but they severely lack balls.

A single enemy shouldn't be a match for a player unless it's a boss or a special mob. Though it doesn't matter how hard they make them players will adapt anyway. Like, some mobs use charge, and wind up behind the player. Positioning to ensure all mobs stay in front will mitigate this.

[AgemFrostMage]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already, but one thing I'd love to have is the old Delsaber/Delbiter enemies. To be frank, I've never had as much respect for those enemies as I've had for any other mob in any other game. Whenever you entered a room and saw the silhouette of either of these two, I know I always clinched my controller a little harder.

I could imagine the Delsabers to be like smaller versions of Falz Hunar, jumping around a lot and blocking most attacks.

Was the EXP worth killing them? If monsters are too hard it defeats the EXP to effort ratio and make people skip battle running to bosses.

[thematesV2]

I think some of the old maps were set up so you had to kill most things in order for doors to open. so there wasn't as much skipping as people do in pso2.

[MetalDude]

Why do you think Lisa started using Weak Bullet?

Probably because making AI actually use skills makes sense. It really doesn't have anything to do with making the game easier, partner characters needed stuff like that and actually changing weapons.

[gigawuts]

Started? Did she ever not use weak bullet? Because Affin was using it on day 1 of the POBT, I distinctly recall wondering why enemies randomly had targeting reticules.

[Shinmarizu]

IIRC Lisa did not use WBs when the POBT started, but started using 3-4 WBs once your level was past 40. Afin used them early; so did Jean - so the idea of Lisa, who wants to kill everything, not using them was incredibly strange.

Unless Lisa did that on purpose because she liked firing MORE bullets at her targets.

[Link1275]

>But mobs aren't supposed to be a match for players unless there's a huge bunch of them.
Are we playing the same game? Did you read the tutorial scenes?
Any single given enemy should be able to take you out, unless you've geared or leveled.

> And if they did complain that the enemies were way too hard
Why do you think Goran Zoran was nerfed?
Why do you think our spells don't affect the Gilnas anymore in the Lilipa Rescue EC?
Why do you think Lisa started using Weak Bullet?
Why do you think the "no-small-fry-at-the-boss" glitch was never fixed?

Some enemies *are* frustrating, like the rare snow cats, but that's no reason to make the difficulty foolproof. The PSO2 team has a lot of ideas, but they severely lack balls.
The bold is what you quoted from my statement.

This is what I said
"And if they did complain that the enemies were way too hard their culture has changed quite a bit."

Taken out of context much?

[Ghalion]

Id like rhe hyperdimension neptunia costumes to come out in this game eventually =p... Quite frankly they wouldnt even seem out of place.

[Saffran]

If you've wathed the scenario scenes with Lisa, she tells you that she *loves* shooting bullets at enemies to kill them, and that she likes it when she can shoot... and shoot... and shoot again... and again... and make them suffer. Which is why -contrary to all other ranger npc - Lisa used to not apply weak bullet.

As far as my quoting being not enough, I did it to convey the fact that hello the idea you have of their culture is long gone. There's no "if they complained" here. Which is really a shame when you think that Goran Zoran pre nerf took about 1 to 2 minutes to kill. Now it's more like 15 seconds...

I tested again the magic on the rescue emergency, gizonde still doesn't affect the gilnas. I noticed that Rafoie does damage if the enemy you've used it on is too close. Zan seems to do little damage but damage nonetheless. I guess I'm using Gizonde way too often to take notice of these things...

[Link1275]

If you've wathed the scenario scenes with Lisa, she tells you that she *loves* shooting bullets at enemies to kill them, and that she likes it when she can shoot... and shoot... and shoot again... and again... and make them suffer. Which is why -contrary to all other ranger npc - Lisa used to not apply weak bullet.

As far as my quoting being not enough, I did it to convey the fact that hello the idea you have of their culture is long gone. There's no "if they complained" here. Which is really a shame when you think that Goran Zoran pre nerf took about 1 to 2 minutes to kill. Now it's more like 15 seconds...

I tested again the magic on the rescue emergency, gizonde still doesn't affect the gilnas. I noticed that Rafoie does damage if the enemy you've used it on is too close. Zan seems to do little damage but damage nonetheless. I guess I'm using Gizonde way too often to take notice of these things...

You mean the never give up, never surrender spirit that they had before WWII? Or did they completely drop that to go into tech stuff now, and in the process decide that easy games are better?

[AgemFrostMage]

I think some of the old maps were set up so you had to kill most things in order for doors to open. so there wasn't as much skipping as people do in pso2.

Between tanky mobs like the huge spikey dragonkin and gongoros I can understand why people would skip. As the game is killing things is actually worth the EXP. Now, 12 EXP per monster doesn't sound like a lot, but many of that type spawn and die in a reasonable time. I went an entire 30 levels without a subclass though and my techer ran through everything on lower content easily, which it should given that it needs to play catch up, but higher stage hards and all very hards (and the ruins' normal) need to be balanced around subclass stats factored in, unless they already are.

[yoshiblue]

Millio and Cyan from PSZ. Would be nice to see them as characters in PSO2.

[Mikessc88]

I want all the old Ruins monsters, the Dimenians, the Delsabers, chaos bringers and chaos sorcerers. I want the special abilities on rare weapons that go beyond the basic status effects.
And also bring back the Boomas

[Noc Codez]

PSU.. Just give me my Rucar back and I'll be happy.. not me in PIC btw..
Carrigune-Rucar
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/psu_item/Double_Saber/Carriguine-Rucar1.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/psu_item/media/Double_Saber/Carriguine-Rucar1.jpg.html)