Gunner Buff Speculation Thread

[Zyrusticae]

From Bumped.org:

Gunner Class Balance

We have received various opinions about this issue and have decided to buff some Gunner skills and photon arts in the future. We’ll announce more details later on.


LET US BEGIN SPECULATING.

The last time they did a buff they inadvertently made hunters the single strongest subclass for rangers while also making hunters themselves a top-tier class.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO OUR PRECIOUS GUNNERS?

Shall they receive similar treatment, or will they receive the techer treatment that gives them a niche but not enough to put them on par with their primary counterpart (haha oh gawd I hope they don't do this!)?

Will Showtime finally NOT SUCK? Will the gear get a buff? Will Zero Range Advance be useful outside of in-your-face range? Will Perfect Keeper finally do something worthwhile?

THE QUESTIONS. THEY STACK UP!

LET US BEGIN.

[ShinMaruku]

Knowing sega they will over compensate and make this thing insane.

[jooozek]

gunner is boring anyway so it doesnt need buffs
techer buffs plox

[Z-0]

I just hope they throw out resets since they're buffing skills, which could make a reset necessary if you're interested in getting the most out of your gunner (for example, Perfect Keeper could actually be useful, so you'd want to take it over ZRA)

I'll speculate later, gotta go do stuff. x.o

[gigawuts]

Well, unless the buff is strictly to gun moves, I don't see the player consensus changing on it. Its melee abilities are only half there, and its gun-shooty part is even less present, relying on moves available to ranger that are the lesser used moves ranger has in its arsenal.

[Sirius-91]

They'll obviously fix the PP restore bug, and probably some skills or perhaps a damage increase.

As for ZRA, they do emphasize being "Zero Range" so i doubt they would make that skill change to outside of ZR.

I'm rather curious to what they will actually change or for that matter, give us. I can't really speculate much more than thinking that they will probably do what they did to HU and FIX PP gain, increase attack speed or buff/change the way some of our PA's and Skills work.

Though, I really hope they buff the damage, since without weak bullet, i do 50 - 200 damage not using Just attacks at 55/56 GU/RA using TM's vs my rifle damage as GURA or RAGU which is 200 - 700. This is of course not using weak point damage which is obviously more.

I just think back to how painful it was to level GU back when it was released and realize not much has changed since then.

[Zenobia]

Yeah kinda hoping they buff some PA atk at least also did Perfect keeper really not do that much? For a percent base skill I felt the effects during each point I put into it for a skill that requires you to be at full HP to do more damage.

Lvling my FO for now bbl to further put in some further speculations here and there.

[Vashyron]

The class named gunner will be the best melee class.

[gigawuts]

The class named gunner will be the best melee class.

This is the funniest part. Gunner's melee is the best single-target. It has good range, reach, and mobility. It hits hard. It can benefit from headshot bonus damage. It is not bounced by shields at all. The ranged melee PA's tend to use much less PP than striking melee PA's do. It's got flip canceling for all the PA's, for easy and safe evasion.

The gaps in GU's melee are just the sweeping AOE available from over end, slide end, etc., and grabs. That's all, really.

[Kilich]

They'll receive a damage bandaid. ER will probably deal 50% damage and IF, BS and MT will probably fire the same amount of shots for less clicking.

[gravityvx]

They will receive jet packs and rocket boots, buffs to all PAs, multipliers buffed through the roof, Elder Rebellion all shots are now AoE, shooting during flips adds 150% JA bonus, rifle damage 200% JA increase, more bullets per attack with mechs, mech gear now also adds 200% JA bonus, gunner explodes on death.

[Zenobia]

They will receive jet packs and rocket boots, buffs to all PAs, multipliers buffed through the roof, Elder Rebellion all shots are now AoE, shooting during flips adds 150% JA bonus, rifle damage 200% JA increase, more bullets per attack with mechs, mech gear now also adds 200% JA bonus, gunner explodes on death.

http://i41.tinypic.com/b98xw6.gif

[Alisha]

how does gunner get a buff before techer???????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????

[Z-0]

Techer got a buff a long time ago.

It just didn't help much.

[Sp-24]

Most of the Gunner's skills give substantial damage increase already, and the actual problem with them is that they are gimmicky to the point of being worthless (yes, Aerial Advance, I mean you), so there's no easy fix. They'll probably just give a heavy buff to all melee PAs, and maybe bring back the SA dodge cancel (if it's not back already, I haven't checked).

[ShinMaruku]

Also techers have far more structural issues than gunners. Also it's easier. Remember Sega does shit because it's easy and runs away from shit that is hard.

[Mekhana]

Haha. Today is a good day.

[Zenobia]

how does gunner get a buff before techer???????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????

YOU MAD BRO YEAH YOU MAD<3

[Lebensohl]

ER 30% damage increase, Aerial Advance change to 50% damage increase.

Though seriously, I would like to see ZRA affect Melee and Techs, we need more hybrids.

[Xaeris]

I have my realistic expectations and my hopeful expectations.

My realistic expectations are that they buff the hell out of Perfect Keeper (10% for staying at full health while Hunter gets 25% for hitting a damn button in the campship? Real fair), relax the range on Zero Range Advance (as it is, even freaking Satellite Aim can miss out on the bonus), and increase the rate at which TMG gear rises. All easy, all useful. s Just on the edge of realistic, they could also change Aerial Advance to work when it's your character in the air and not the enemy.

My hopeful changes hope that they look at the dynamic of the class itself and don't just put bigger numbers on everything. A lot of TMG's arts are basically melee arts, and two of your biggest bonuses (Zero Range) require you to be close enough to pick the enemy's nose even if you're using the two ranged arts. The problem with that is that they're still shooting arts and subject to the stupid high R-Def most enemies have outside their weak points. So, despite the fact that it's a pair of guns you have in your hands, the dynamic of the class is such designed that if you want the most out of your bonuses, you're re-positioning yourself much like a hunter or a fighter. Thing is though, hunters and fighters have Step Attack to help them get around.

So, what I'd want to see ideally? Keep the melee thing for Gunner. That makes it distinct from Ranger. What I'd want them to do is add one of these skills (both would be kind OP):

Momentum - Increases run speed while weapons (any weapon) are drawn. At max rank, you'd run as fast with guns drawn as you do when they're holstered. Maybe faster.

Roll Attack - Works exactly like you think it does. The problem with Roll is how it roots you for a split second at the end of the animation. Get rid of that part, and it becomes a useful complement to the flip for positioning purposes.

[Xaelouse]

how does gunner get a buff before techer???????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????

because buff techer's wand damage and HU/FIs will start bitching

so we're stuck at "structural issues"

[Husq]

How about reduce the amount of PP for dead approach, buff strength of sat aim and introduce something for dive roll, like going directly into sprint.
As for gunner tree make zra bonus for all attacks. That way it becomes a good alternative sub for FI or HU. But then again it probably break the balance somewhere else.

[cheapgunner]

I've got a few ideas:

ZRA 1/2: Increases from 1.15 -> 1.25
Perfect Keeper: Increases from 10% incre. -> 20% incre.
Aerial Shooter: Now works with either you or enemy in the air ( incre. from 1.2 -> 1.35 )
New Skill Added: Fury Stance added in tree right under TMG gear. XD
Chain Finish: incre. from 1.35 -> 1.5
Skill Tree Adjustment: Move showtime right behind aerial shooter. Move duration from 22 1/2 sec. to 1 full minute.

Even half of these ideas getting implemented would be awesome.

[gigawuts]

because buff techer's wand damage and HU/FIs will start bitching

so we're stuck at "structural issues"

what

i would rejoice

especially if they buffed it enough that combos of te and melee classes, subbed or mained, would be have performance roughly equivalent to straight melee

Edit: GU doesn't need larger multipliers. At all. It needs multipliers that work more often. Giving everything it already has better numbers would fix nothing, it would just make it obscenely OP when they work and unchanged everywhere else - which is already the entire problem, it's fine when it works but useless when it doesn't.

[cheapgunner]

what

Edit: GU doesn't need larger multipliers. At all. It needs multipliers that work more often. Giving everything it already has better numbers would fix nothing, it would just make it obscenely OP when they work and unchanged everywhere else - which is already the entire problem, it's fine when it works but useless when it doesn't.

I suppose. Moving Showtime underneath Aerial shooting (which includes you being in the air for skill as well) and making the duration like 40-50 sec. would be decent. Having to go so far into the tree on that side to get to it is kinda terrible.

[gigawuts]

Then the issue is GU is a better aggro magnet than HU, the class designed specifically for being an aggro magnet.

GU is kind of a mess. Its role encroaches on melee, and doesn't have the flaws melee has, but also doesn't have the thoroughness of options melee has. Then it lacks what it should have because it's a gun class: actual gun stuff.

I just wish it wasn't made to be a ranged-based melee class, this all could've been avoided if they focused on different kinds of shooting for the PA's (like, elder rebellion has one pattern of twist-and-shoots, another PA could have another, with each PA focusing on different strengths and utilities).

But that won't be changing, so gotta just hope they let melee access GU's multipliers.

Now, GU/HU wasn't OP. It was RA/HU that was OP. If they fix up ZRA to have more range (let's say charged deadly archer range), let it work on melee, nerf RA's WHA, and beef up fury stance's ranged multiplier to its pre-nerf amount I think GU would be a great standalone class.

I think the best solution would be to turn mechguns into SATK and RATK weapons (just give each weapon the same satk as it has ratk, plus a bit extra to make up for stat losses from the mag), like gunslashes are. Then convert the melee PA's to striking, and apply ZRA to striking. Then add 3-4 more bullet-centric PA's with different kinds of shooting.

One thought I had was to give GU a new weapon, probably a shotgun, and just change all the melee PA's to be for the shotgun. Then give it actual shooty PA's for the mechguns. This is really just the idea above with a separate weapon.

[cheapgunner]

Giving them shotgun would be kinda nice. What they could do is lose the Rifle and use shotgun that has a pretty wide bullet spread and make it a more mobile launcher with lower numbers but faster fire rate. Make 1/2 their pa selection with charge ability and each normal attack able to hit up to 5-6 different target.

[gigawuts]

That's a pretty good idea. I like it a lot, actually. I never thought the rifle was a good fit for GU, at all. It'd be like leaving sword on fighter or rod on techer. It's just...why? It's the signature weapon of RA. It's GOING to have balance issues if you let a class have access to class-specific versions of the best and most versatile weapons from two different classes. Imagine leaving fighter with only sword and double sabers, with double sabers having the best PA's from each of its weapons. Not only is it very cheap since it's just 2 weapons, but just one can do almost everything on its own - and you already have one because you were playing RA.

Talis on TE I get, though. It's an actually functionally different weapon. "Cast over here" vs. "cast over there." Pretty noticeable difference, and there's no real way to change that. You could make a new weapon with similar behaviors, then restrict it somehow, but it'd just be redundant.

[Syklo]

They'll over compensate by letting TMGs with APPR recover the same amount of pp as a double saber's 3rd attack.

[BlueCast Boy]

Well Gunners skill tree is really behind meh to ok and good, since there called more of melee range I guess ZRA needs more benefit since Gunners are prolly more focusing on Long Range but TMG has a very great mobility and power and the shift cancels everything so they ok on Short Range than Hunters and Fighters, Well since TMG PA needs also buff other than Elder Rebellion.

[UnLucky]

make Chain Trigger always active on every target

[gigawuts]

make Chain Trigger always active on every target

This is another a really good idea. It'd work well if there was a second always-on CT that was separated from the regular CT and balanced appropriately. Something like this, maybe:

Add a new skill right above Chain Trigger: Chain Combo
Make Chain Combo's bonus to be an increase in the count cap, 10 at level 1 and 50 at level 10
Chain Combo's damage is 1% per count, maximum of 50 count for 150% damage
The mechanics for this always-on Chain Combo are as follows: Smaller and less obtrusive graphic since you'll always be seeing it, only one permitted at a time, when you hit a different hitbox the CT resets and changes to the new hitbox you've just damaged, teammates don't contribute to it or even see it
Maybe make it so PA's don't "redeem" the count, and can even increase the count? Since your teammates can't help raise it.
Either make Chain Trigger unable to stack with Chain Combo, or nerf Chain Trigger's damage to compensate for Chain Combo (whichever the reader prefers, for the sake of discussion)

Then the question is if Chain Finish should apply. I don't think so, 35% on top of that would be a bit much, since it would essentially be a full-time damage bonus.

[Mekhana]

Personally I'd like:

Increase minimum range of ZRA
Building the chain more quickly and letting it last longer
Fix PP skill bug
Buff PK - let it be stronger than a stance since even losing 1 hp to a turret nullifies it
TMG Gear- Increase Damage

[Shinmarizu]

Personally I'd like:

Increase minimum range of ZRA
Building the chain more quickly and letting it last longer
Fix PP skill bug
Buff PK - let it be stronger than a stance since even losing 1 hp to a turret nullifies it
TMG Gear- Increase Damage

ZRA: Not only improve the minimun range of ZRA, but allow this to work with all damage types - more consistent damage within range.
Chain Trigger/Finish: Longer duration. It would help a lot if the unique skill that Gunner has would be useful and not so difficult to pull off.
APPR glitch: self-explanatory.
PK: (i) you need a screwton of PP to being with to unlock it, (ii) 10SP for 10%? Make all damage multipliers consistent please. (looking at you, Ranger)

Giga's Chain Combo skill is a neat idea. More likely that they both stack, but nerf Finish to compensate.

Gunner needs to be far better at its standalone skills; I always liked the idea of high risk / high reward dodgy shooty, so Gunner needs to stand as tall as Ranger does. Either raise the floor on Gunner's capabilities or knock Ranger down a couple of pegs.
Gunner also needs to be a better subclass IMO, hopefully those potential fixes will see Gunner subs on non-Rangers....

[Z-0]

[13:12:22] Matt Swift: ZRA's range is being increased.
Satellite Aim's range is being increased.
Shift Dodge can cancel Satelitte Aim.
Reverse Tap is getting a power increase.
Perfect Keeper is getting a power increase.

You will be receiving a skill tree reset pass for each character that had Gunner unlocked on the 22nd of May's maintenance.

http://pso2.jp/players/support/measures/?id=1459

[gigawuts]

Number tweaks, as expected. But at least ZRA got a number tweak that wasn't utter shit.

Now it just needs to apply to melee... nerf WHA by 10%, un-nerf fury stance... change aerial advance into something more skill-indexed or versatile (or maybe just Medium Range Advance?) and we'll have GU as a proper class.

[Mekhana]

So we're still going to be still be launching things into the air and people will still hate us?

Also where are the numbers? I don't see any on the list but you mentioned them.

[Bellion]

Yes, unnecessary Elder Rebellion spamming will still be hated.

[Saffran]

Aaand once again, Sega caves in.
Ah, well.

[gigawuts]

Aaand once again, Sega caves in.
Ah, well.

Go on, tell us how gunner was not only balanced but was able to compete with every single other class as not only a main, but offered just as much as a sub.

Tell us about its 2x damage multipliers that were useful in most if not all circumstances and then how its class-specific weapon had good single target damage AND good AOE damage.

[Ezodagrom]

Hmm, reverse tap is not getting a power increase, quoting bumped:

The following changes will be applied during the May 29th, 2013 update.

Expand the effective range for Zero Range Advance 1 and 2. (Due to this correction, the range for “Zero Effort” latent ability will also increase.)
Increase the range of drawing in enemies for the Reverse Tap photon art. (Since when?)
Increase the attack range for Satellite Aim.
You can use the Gunner flip to cancel out of Satellite Aim’s second attack.
Buff the damage magnifiers for Perfect Keeper.

http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-border-break-cross-collaboration-campaign/

[Kierto]

Unless its something wild like Perfect Keeper 10 = 150% mod then meh, not excite. Sounds bullshit.

If you want to have ZRA 1 + 2 + Perfect Keeper all maxed you may as well just drop chain altogether. Not to mention this further just encourages the use of Yasminkov over every other TMG.

[Zyrusticae]

The gunner tree remains absolute shit. You can't get ZRA I + II + Perfect Keeper + Aerial Advance all at the same time without losing points in Chain Finish (or dropping it entirely), and Chain Trigger + Chain Finish remains completely inferior to Weak Bullet in every single conceivable way except cooldown. Meanwhile, Ranger gets all its good damage mods pretty much without any prerequisites and Weak Bullet is even on the same side of the tree as those.

Hopefully Perfect Keeper gets something like 1.5 at +10 or something to offset the shittiness of the tree in general...

[gigawuts]

The gunner tree remains absolute shit. You can't get ZRA I + II + Perfect Keeper + Aerial Advance all at the same time without losing points in Chain Finish (or dropping it entirely), and Chain Trigger + Chain Finish remains completely inferior to Weak Bullet in every single conceivable way except cooldown. Meanwhile, Ranger gets all its good damage mods pretty much without any prerequisites and Weak Bullet is even on the same side of the tree as those.

Hopefully Perfect Keeper gets something like 1.5 at +10 or something to offset the shittiness of the tree in general...

What's really frustrating is ranger's tree is just as badly designed as gunner's, but for different reasons.

RA's multipliers are too powerful, and too close. That's just as bad as multipliers that aren't powerful enough and too spread out, but in the direction of being OP instead of UP. It means everything else on the RA tree is completely wasted SP. Wasted prerequisites, wasted skills at the end of the tree, all of it's shit.

It's a testament to what they did right in PSO1 re: traps vs. techs. Traps as a standalone spec are just...not good enough. They're too situational. Set up time? Needing to lead enemies? Possibility of them just not being set off? And this is all to the exclusion of shooting bullets for more damage and much, much, much more precision all the time and without a limit of 10 individual uses that you have to buy? I, uh, what?

Every class has that portion of the tree that's just a joke, but techer's and gunner's are unfortunately mixed in as prerequisites for the desirable skills.

[Shinmarizu]

So Sega is ignoring the issue that Gunner cannot keep up consistent damage compared to Ranger because CT/CF is less effective compared to WB, and Ranger's modifiers are universal.

Sigh. Back to waiting.

Who was it that said Sega didn't want to really fix anything, and just rely on inflating numbers to attempt to level the field? ... I think that was almost everyone.

[MetalDude]

Well, they sort of have the right idea. It's just that they went nowhere near far enough with it. I'd also like to hear test results of the new ZRA range after the patch before fully investing in it, but if new SA range still qualifies for ZRA then I'm game.

[Saffran]

Giga > you can't bite into an apple and then complain that it doesn't taste like french fries. Zero Range means zero range. Increased range on Zero Range, really? How about "no"?

Admittedly, gunner was not a balanced class. ER is absurdly powerful and their stylish roll (shift dodge) makes them *invincible*. The only thing that makes up for this is the fact that Gunners are only effective against single targets. Plus, R-def based equipment sucks so if they miss a step, they're toast. Which brings us back to them being invincible in the first place.

So how do we balance them? By making them more powerful and more all-around useful? Really?
Like, really now?

(edited after a while thinking about it)

I understand that people want improvements, but making them even more overpowered and cheap is not going to solve the problem.
The change to Perfect Keeper makes the skill more palatable - in a way, it *is* an improvement, and it will be welcomed by solo players. Heck, all of these changes will greatly benefit solo players. But PSO2 is not a solo game.

My stance is, as the game is now, *all* classes are absurdly overpowered. (thanks in part to the insane Ranger tree and its godly apply to all damage multiplicator and weak bullet skills, as you noted). Divide the damage we deal by some large number (anything between 20 and 50, I don't care) and then we can look into revamping the skills and theoretical uses of the classes, and see in practice what works and what doesn't.

Part of the problem is that I'm only seeing top-geared players. These changes will possibly make a lot of sense to beginners and low-level players.

For the increased range on zero range thing (which really sounds absurd, I have to insist on this), we could compromise and make ZRA1 a skill called "Close Range Advance", and then ZRA2 would be the new ZRA1, to reward players who actually are into this over the top "in your face" fighting style.

[Z-0]

Gunner was extremely underpowered.

[gigawuts]

You're missing the point, man. I agree that skills should do what their name suggests, but the problem wasn't that zero range advance fit its name too much - it's that both its name AND actual bonus were really really bad. It's HIGHLY limiting and restrictive.

I mean... to use your example, it's not that I want the apple to taste like french fries. It's that I want it to BE french fries. The apple just doesn't work here. Game design should always, always, always go as follows: Fun = Balance > Game Logic = Lore > Real World Logic. If a game isn't fun and balanced nobody will care how much sense it makes. If a game doesn't make sense in its own universe nobody* will care if it's absurdly fun.

And, like many other games, the major factor isn't that each class is overpowered - it's that each class should be equally overpowered in their own way. And GU is less overpowered than other classes. If the standard is that everything is overpowered, and GU is less overpowered, that makes it relatively underpowered. That's the problem.

* Some will, but not the vast majority.

[Lebensohl]

I think this buff will have a pretty big impact depending on how 'close' you need to be for ZRA, it was kindof sad seeing gunners force to forgo a 32% damage bonus because it was too unreliable, and forgoing a 10% damage boost because it was hard to keep up to be worth it.

Sure you have to give up Arial Advance and Chain Finish to max those, but unless you like playing solo, those two skills only work for a very small amount of time anyways.

There's no way to tell how good this buff will be, but it is pretty unrealistic to expect that gunners to be buffed to the point where they can compete with RA/HU

[Xaeris]

"Increase the range of drawing in enemies for the Reverse Tap photon art."

Was...was this a thing? Huh. Anyway, if the Zero Range and Perfect Keeper changes turn out to be good, I don't mind forsaking Chain Finish to focus on that half of the tree. I wish they had done something with TMG gear or Showtime though.

[MetalDude]

A huge part of the problem is that none of the PAs cooperate with ZRA at all. SA? Hits them away. DA? Seems smart, but it hits them a million yards away from you. MT? Pffhahahaha. IF is the one PA I see as easy to manage ZRA on but only because you can move with it.

Even if you wanted to play as an "in your face" kind of GU, none of your toolset works for it at all. It's utter trash. As silly as a ZRA range buff sounds, it's absolutely necessary for GU to even benefit from it.

[Shinmarizu]

That's just it. The PAs have very little synergy with the skills or abilities of the class. Inflating damage modifiers doesn't fix that. Buffing ZRA's active range makes little difference, and makes Gunners appear like subpar Rangers in the same way Techers appear as subpar Forces.

Which they shouldn't, but they are because of lousy design issues.

[gigawuts]

That's just it. The PAs have very little synergy with the skills or abilities of the class. Inflating damage modifiers doesn't fix that. Buffing ZRA's active range makes little difference, and makes Gunners appear like subpar Rangers in the same way Techers appear as subpar Forces.

Which they shouldn't, but they are because of lousy design issues.

Right. The whole class is flawed. They made a melee class that isn't compatible with other melee classes, and added bullets as an afterthought when people who played ranger to 30 understandably wanted a class that, I don't know, shot its guns at things.

So some of its skills mesh with its melee PA's, but its melee PA's are only compatible with a gun class. And the melee PA's don't mesh with the subclass' bonuses at all, nor the subclass' weapons. WHA? What? Standing snipe? Uh?

But they won't get rid of it, and are adhering to some broken as fuck idea where every single weapon needs the same number of PA's so it'll take a LONG time for mechguns to get enough variety in its gun moves. It doesn't help that ER and IF are completely redundant next to eachother, both specializing in single target damage. And the skills don't work well with either of those PA's, either.

[UnLucky]

What ZRA1 should have been was to be so generous that you would almost never see it not active. Like the range where you start getting the normal damage drop off for ranged attacks. (I didn't even know there was such a thing)

And then ZRA2 can be physically touching the enemy like it is, but for 25%. Even that's not nearly as good as WHA, but that shouldn't be that high in the first place.

Get rid of the HP Up skill. Get rid of R-Atk Up 3. THREE

[BlankM]

Perfect Keeper is a whopping 120% multiplier now, putting it on par with Fury Combo Up.

If, you know, Perfect Keeper's condition was "PUSH THE BUTTON", and if it followed 166%'s worth of bonuses that also required "PUSH THE BUTTON" (and 5% extra damage) rather than 132%'s worth that requires point-blank range and 10 SP's worth of pointless stat modifiers.

(Obviously I don't have the range values for new ZRA or Satellite Aim, but so far...)

Mm...

[Xaeris]

Just 120? That's a slight disappointment. I was expecting 125%, you know, to at least put it on par with a Weak Hit Advance, nevermind the two that Ranger gets. Well, there's still hope for Zero Range's range.

[Maximum Burst]

The thing I didn't like about Perfect Keeper was that anyone who had weapons with Fang/Ransa Soul, Mutation (pyroxene weapons), or Stamina Boost and weapons without them would lose the Perfect Keeper bonus when switching weapons. I know that ideally, everyone should be using Miser Soul on their weapons, but that can turn out to be quite pricey.

[Kierto]

lol 120%

[MetalDude]

So, SA is a little more usable now but the knockback is still an annoying part of the move so I guess I'm still sticking to it for just bosses. ZRA works at about T. Dagger attack range now which is actually usable but still hard to apply just because the toolkit is not super cooperative. SA + ZRA on bosses should be pretty decent at least. Haven't tried out Reverse Tap yet.

EDIT: So RT has something around a little less than Zondeel range pull in so it's not horrendous. Problem is application so I guess it's a matter of being creative.

[Syklo]

EDIT: So RT has something around a little less than Zondeel range pull in so it's not horrendous. Problem is application so I guess it's a matter of being creative.

So compared between charged and uncharged zondeel range,
is it inbetween?

[MetalDude]

Probably just a little over uncharged.

[kabutozero]

Eh , actually I did an eq and used RT + BS in tandem when many mobs appeared and imo gunner has fairly decent mobbing now ( to me it's really good but others could say otherwhise) than just picking up the spellstone bazooka and keep shooting from afar, it's a really nice combo that also stuns big enemies ( el ahdas were grabbed by rt effect then knocked to the ground by rt OR bs if by some reason rtdidn't make it , then slammed by BS and my party) and grabs enemies with quite a decent range so your paty can go mob mode if they don't have a zondeel users

[MetalDude]

Ok seriously, RT into SA is amazing on clusters. Gunner just got a lot more fun and good. It's probably the most fluid combo because RT leaves you in the air at the end where SA is much faster. Use BS for circles and SA for cones and you actually get decent PA synergy. Now just make DA not fling the enemy forever away and GU will have some real mob cleaning abilities.

[TaigaUC]

Seems like the problem with Reverse Tap's draw-in is that it can't move enemies who are in hitstun. That's pretty annoying.