You know that thing you do with knuckles? (Action Canceling)

[Gheert]

Yeah, I think it can potentially break this game. Anyone remember butterfly from GunZ? What happens is you cancel your slashes with guard. Then, if something hits you when you guard, you get to shimmer and hit back for some damage. (Just guard, anyone?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDgxJ4ArM0c

Well... I am running a Pentium 4 so I had a helluva time trying to record this and get PSO2 to read my inputs at the same time. However, what I try to show is basic Just Attack Action canceling. AFTER THAT, I try the same thing on sword, partizan, then Wired Lance. How do you think it'll work on the latter of the weapons?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqPvRpDAAdo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o54TEnxaP9M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o54TEnxaP9M

[jooozek]

knuckles dont have guard
its an evasive action
doesnt reflect damage with just guard

[Gheert]

knuckles dont have guard
its an evasive action
doesnt reflect damage with just guard

Did you watch the whole thing? It's NOT just about knuckles.

[Zenobia]

Everyone knows this trick alrdy.

[UnLucky]

Yeah I really don't think so.

Even if the attack does register, if it connects with an enemy you get massive hitstop, slowing down your "tactic" to a crawl.

And you're not invincible for the entire dodge anyway.

[Gheert]

Alright, I need to rewrite my post - but lemme say: In my vid, I didn't stop at knuckles, I tried it on partizen, sword, and wired lances. THAT's the key part. I know about hitstop, the guard on knuckles being hair of a second, etc. It's not about the knuckles, it's about being able to do it on partizen, sword, and wire lance. I'll rewrite it after I do some testing.

EDIT: Maybe this will better illustrate what I was trying to do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o54TEnxaP9M
Also, it turns out that yes, the buttons is held too short and I still take damage. Ahue. But does anyone see any practicality in canceling those slashes in mid air like that? I saw a JP player do it at Dark Falz once and he was really going at it, like it meant something to him.

[Shadowth117]

This has been known pretty well for a while. And no, it really doesn't end up breaking the game because of how it plays out in this. I mean think about it. Those single attacks have pretty much no range, and not being photon arts, have little damage. And as we know, there's little practicality in canceling actual photon arts early generally other than to avoid damage. Hell, some don't even let you cancel for a nice period.

So no. This really isn't game breaking. Amusing? Sure. Game-breaking? Hardly.

[Zenobia]

Not only that considering how things die instantly anyway this hardly warrants the need to do anything extra as it stands I don't see any benefit doing it other than to avoid damage.

[Sp-24]

None of the guard cancels are gamebreaking. Not even close.

Normal attack combo on Swords has an insanely slow startup animation - canceling a combo is not your best interest. Wired Lances aren't much faster, either. Partisans are rather fast in comparison, but they can't be cancelled on the ground. Plus, Hunters rely on JA bonuses (2 JA Advances and Fury Combo Up) for damage, and unlike Knuckles, the block on Hunter weapons doesn't provide any JA frames. You can get those bonuses with Just Counter, but that requires actually blockng an attack with a JG first, and you must not move at all before attacking, which includes falling when you are in the air. Most Sword PAs and Cerberus Dance can be cancelled on the ground, but good luck finding a spammable one among them. It's Sonic Arrow, and it's best spammed without cancelling anything.

Knuckle PAs are pretty fast, and, if I remember right, some of them can be cancelled with that strategy, but, first of all, there's the issue of hitstop on successful hits, plus, let me remind you that Knuckles are pretty weak and have zero range. I'm joking - they still very well can be outside of Zero Range Advance's effective range.

The best use that I can think of for this is cancelling aerial Sword and Partisan attack when you are in a Guard Stance, and even then, again, it's not even remotely gamebreaking, or even useful, for that matter.

I'm pretty sure you could cancel Nova Strike before and I remember it being somewhat useful, so maybe there was a potential for this exploit. But we can't be sure anymore - they added a lot of frames during which it's uncancellable when Sega noticed that Huter's PAs aren't worthless enough yet, and people are using something other than Sonic Arrow.

[Gheert]

None of the guard cancels are gamebreaking. Not even close.

Normal attack combo on Swords has an insanely slow startup animation - canceling a combo is not your best interest. Wired Lances aren't much faster, either. Partisans are rather fast in comparison, but they can't be cancelled on the ground. Plus, Hunters rely on JA bonuses (2 JA Advances and Fury Combo Up) for damage, and unlike Knuckles, the block on Hunter weapons doesn't provide any JA frames. You can get those bonuses with Just Counter, but that requires actually blockng an attack with a JG first, and you must not move at all before attacking, which includes falling when you are in the air. Most Sword PAs and Cerberus Dance can be cancelled on the ground, but good luck finding a spammable one among them. It's Sonic Arrow, and it's best spammed without cancelling anything.

Knuckle PAs are pretty fast, and, if I remember right, some of them can be cancelled with that strategy, but, first of all, there's the issue of hitstop on successful hits, plus, let me remind you that Knuckles are pretty weak and have zero range. I'm joking - they still very well can be outside of Zero Range Advance's effective range.

The best use that I can think of for this is cancelling aerial Sword and Partisan attack when you are in a Guard Stance, and even then, again, it's not even remotely gamebreaking, or even useful, for that matter.

I'm pretty sure you could cancel Nova Strike before and I remember it being somewhat useful, so maybe there was a potential for this exploit. But we can't be sure anymore - they added a lot of frames during which it's uncancellable when Sega noticed that Huter's PAs aren't worthless enough yet, and people are using something other than Sonic Arrow.

Yeah, I was just taught a lesson about attack speeds by Quartz Dragon. I did find out though that although it's not exactly as crazy as I thought, attack canceling can keep you at a certain spot, if you need to be there. I was able to keep swinging on his nose horn and anytime he was about to attack, I had no problems getting into JG and staying on the offensive. Maybe the player I saw at the one Falz Run was doing it to stay on the rear, JG Incoming Hands, and OE when he had a clear opening. I have to admit, it's definitely not for all players and obviously it's not an intended action, but it's not exactly a useless tool like... rolling?

[UnLucky]

Also the first hit in a combo does less damage and regains less PP than the third hit.

Repeatedly doing that while rooted in one spot doesn't sound OP to me.

[Cyclon]

Actually, correctly alternating between the first hit, the dodge and ducking blow in the air is pretty much the best single target damage per second a knuckle user can get out of his weapon. That's old news I believe.

[DreXxiN]

I have nothing to add to this thread except for being impressed that you can record PSO2 with a Pentium 4. Bravo. (Also, you could totally upgrade your processor for less than 100 bucks at this point and still get a lot out of it.)