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View Full Version : red boxes and drops in general...



jooozek
May 26, 2013, 04:24 PM
seriously, this needs really a fix, first off the fucking sound of rare drops is broken
second, in massive bursts shit drops so fast that you will not even have chance to see stuff through enemies dying
third, that makes tri-boosts even less desirable because they just add more shit to drop on ground
fourth, why doesn't meseta already go to the inventory?
fifth, why don't all the quest items/capsules/stones go there either?
sixth, it seriously disrupts the burst because people will always prioritise drops over enemy kills due it

ive lost today a fucking ruins charm to a burst because i grabbed shit around and it filled up my inventory before ive managed to get a slot for it

Dongra
May 26, 2013, 04:47 PM
Why didn't you just drop an item and pick it up?

jooozek
May 26, 2013, 04:52 PM
ive discarded an item, but i didnt manage to grab the ruin charm in time, it just vanished - there is a limit on how many items can be on the ground

Dnd
May 26, 2013, 04:53 PM
Why didn't you just drop an item and pick it up?
Because the sheer amount of drops during a cross burst (As things spawn right on top of each other) means he'd have to pick up tons to actually get the red box unless it selected it quickly.

I also missed out on a red box in a huge cross burst today because of the capped items on the floor, really disappointing they didnt at least put in a safety net for rare drops not being removed from the field when the caps hit and it gets pushed off because of new items :|

Walkure
May 26, 2013, 04:53 PM
Why didn't you just drop an item and pick it up?
PSE burst, so likely he was trying to keep up with killing mobs while fiddling with inventory, amidst torrents of lag and items all over the floor.

I've lost a junk rare or two this way, so I'd definitely agree. The easiest way to mitigate this would be to just prioritize crap like meseta or, you know, NOT RARES, to get removed as a priority. Or just make rares incapable of despawning. That way you'd almost never miss out on a rare without much additional strain that changes to meseta or regular items dropping POSSIBLY might.

jooozek
May 26, 2013, 04:56 PM
well, hard to see anything in bursts:
[SPOILER-BOX]darkers spawn with red particles, some talises have the red box particles, everything is tricking you
http://i.imgur.com/RkOg17K.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Z-0
May 26, 2013, 04:59 PM
Unfortunately when it comes to a burst (especially one at an exit or entrance), it's really hard to pick up a specific item because of the amount of items in the vicinity. It's taken me a while to pick up one item, although I don't really have any problems since I just bank everything quickly (on a controller, hold your dodge button, then press up 3 times from the top item to highlight everything in an item category, then you can bank all at once (or discard)).

Coatl
May 26, 2013, 05:08 PM
I agree that this is a problem. I've lost a latria rain this way, though this was way before they could be traded in for *10 passes so it'd just become an excube anyway. It's no fun having to burden the PSE burst because you want to pick up a rare that might not be a *10 anyway, or when it is you have to pick up the surrounding meseta and junk around it before you pick up what you finally want.

NoiseHERO
May 26, 2013, 05:27 PM
rares actually drop in bursts in general?!

Rende
May 26, 2013, 05:41 PM
I have almost lost a demonic fork before, back when it was still the strongest rod. It is really hard to see stuff on ground with forces spamming zondeel. They should make it such that rares never dissapear at all, and make a special indicator on the minimal to indicate rares

Xaeris
May 26, 2013, 06:50 PM
It'd be nice if rare items were marked by bigger red dots on the minimap.

DoubleCannon
May 26, 2013, 06:58 PM
Wow.. I would be really pissed if that happen to me.

What I do is during bursts attack + continusly hit E on keyboard to constantly pick up item. If I max out I quickly go to storage. hold shift on 1st item scroll to bottem click item while holding shift and every item will highlight.. then hit the item 2nd from the bottom and click send to storage.. BAM all items except equipped items are sent to storage = more space! And this takes only a few seconds when your fast at it.

This will assure no items from bursts are lost. works good :)

Z-0
May 26, 2013, 07:08 PM
^

You've obviously never done what's known as an entrance or exit burst.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMV_A4F-erw

This was back when I picked up items coz of item limit (lol), but when you move out to pick up items, you push enemies back while ruins the efficiency of the burst.

gigawuts
May 26, 2013, 07:10 PM
Yeah this is pretty obnoxious and completely avoidable with any degree of common sense.

Ledo2013
May 26, 2013, 07:21 PM
Hmm... I haven't had this problem in PSO2 so far.
However in old Dreamcast version the way to get by this problem was to move next to the desired item and then hit target switch fast until it settles on the desired item. It may work here as well.

DoubleCannon
May 26, 2013, 07:31 PM
^

You've obviously never done what's known as an entrance or exit burst.

pso2 exit burst - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMV_A4F-erw)

This was back when I picked up items coz of item limit (lol), but when you move out to pick up items, you push enemies back while ruins the efficiency of the burst.

eh? no sir I surely always do exit / enterance bursts.. you have any idea how many elite japanese randoms I join? lol.. plus 3 forces me as hunter.. this is when they get mad cause i dont have range ^^; .. regardless I am able to store 35 items in a matter of seconds. I did a 13 minute exit cross, filled my storage in the end.

When you get fast at this, it really is avoidable...

Edit: also you can just keep picking up the meseta / grinders / stackables which for me has kept me from hitting limit. although would be TONS of weapons / units floating around after lol.

Z-0
May 26, 2013, 07:35 PM
Assuming you want to keep a burst going at full flow (even as a Hunter), you stand back and use some sort of ranged attack. Standing where all the items are pushes things back, where the ranged people are not aiming.

And yes, I can store exactly like you do, I know what you mean, but I don't bother picking anything up during a burst unless I see a red.

.Jack
May 26, 2013, 07:37 PM
Holding down the RT button and scrolling down you'll easily delete every PA disk that you get in 5 seconds. That's usually what I always start to delete first when I get a really long 10-20min burst. Followed by every unit with 0 affixes. I've been in a ton of them and by doing that I never have a problem losing out in items.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/8YJVY9a.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

DoubleCannon
May 26, 2013, 07:40 PM
Holding down the RT button and scrolling down you'll easily delete every PA disk that you get in 5 seconds. That's usually what I always start to delete first when I get a really long 10-20min burst. Followed by every unit with 0 affixes. I've been in a ton of them and by doing that I never have a problem losing out in items.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/8YJVY9a.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

O_o wow 6 one mores with full cross? most ive ever done is 4.

TaigaUC
May 26, 2013, 08:13 PM
I suspected that items vanished. This thread confirmed it, so thanks. Also explains why I never get anything decent during bursts.

I cannot see, hear or distinguish anything at all during bursts, it's just constant white light and attacking sounds. I've seen JP people complaining about the effects on 4gamer reviews, too.

Another issue is that the game just ignores any sounds or effects that are not on-screen (ie. behind you). For example, if an enemy is charging up behind you screaming and stomping, y ou cannot hear it until after it crushes you and appears on-screen. For effects, it won't play certain visual effects (and their combined sounds) until your camera faces where the effect spawned. It's really quite stupid.

Coatl
May 26, 2013, 10:23 PM
Another issue is that the game just ignores any sounds or effects that are not on-screen (ie. behind you). For example, if an enemy is charging up behind you screaming and stomping, y ou cannot hear it until after it crushes you and appears on-screen. For effects, it won't play certain visual effects (and their combined sounds) until your camera faces where the effect spawned. It's really quite stupid.

I am pretty sure this is false. I've heard rares drop that were miles away from me, behind me. They aren't as loud, but they still make a sound.

gigawuts
May 26, 2013, 10:25 PM
It may vary between PC builds. I also notice sounds do not play for many things that are off screen - falz hand ground smashes, rare drops, some enemies, etc. The security lasers in mines will also not show if the emitter is off screen.

TaigaUC
May 26, 2013, 10:38 PM
Rare drop sounds may be an exception. I do know that sometimes there are red boxes without noticing any sound.

Bottom line is, considering how ridiculously difficult it is to obtain a decent rare, they should give you some kind of visual indication and send the rare drop to your storage, instead of expecting you to hear a chime and pick it up in the middle of a mess equivalent to a high level hurricane thunderstorm (or merciless repeated carpeting of flashbangs), and before it vanishes for no reason. I'd imagine the sound cues must be extra irritating for the hearing impaired or people who play in a silent environment.

For an example of the off-camera issue with visual effects, go to Kreshida to turn in a quest for level up, and position the camera so that when you talk to her, your character becomes invisible. Get the level up, and then wait a while before moving the camera. As soon as your character appears you will see the delayed level up effect.

The whole thing with how rare drops work strengthens my impression that SEGA are just building off an outdated PSO framework without really thinking about how to improve on anything. Their approach seems like, "this is how it's always been in PSO, so it's fine and doesn't need to be changed". It took them forever to add such a thing as colored indication to rare item titles. It could be years before they make other needed, useful and simple improvements.

.Jack
May 27, 2013, 02:11 AM
O_o wow 6 one mores with full cross? most ive ever done is 4.

They happen more often in vita blocks. The spawns aren't that great but bursts last a very long time enough to make up for them, imo. I've been in some jpns parties that hunt entrance bursts and most last 5min+.

jooozek
May 27, 2013, 02:55 AM
Holding down the RT button and scrolling down you'll easily delete every PA disk that you get in 5 seconds. That's usually what I always start to delete first when I get a really long 10-20min burst. Followed by every unit with 0 affixes. I've been in a ton of them and by doing that I never have a problem losing out in items.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/8YJVY9a.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

AQ bursts in Vita blocks aren't as bad as 12 man when shit is condensed like this (http://i.imgur.com/nuG68qo.jpg)

.Jack
May 27, 2013, 03:08 AM
AQ bursts in PSE blocks aren't as bad as 12 man when shit is condensed like this (http://i.imgur.com/nuG68qo.jpg)

Still hasn't been an issue for me even in that scenario. Pick up more things faster.

jooozek
May 27, 2013, 03:11 AM
Still hasn't been an issue for me even in that scenario. Pick up more things faster.

except, im picking up things fast enough (even have in joy2key the pickup item made to repeat 30 times in one second) but even then in that situation shit will spawn in place of the shit you pick up because drops push off each other, they cant spawn on top of each other

Lumpen Thingy
May 27, 2013, 04:10 AM
except, im picking up things fast enough (even have in joy2key the pickup item made to repeat 30 times in one second) but even then in that situation shit will spawn in place of the shit you pick up because drops push off each other, they cant spawn on top of each other

Maybe you shouldn't pick up everything on the ground besides anything yellow or red. Seems to help me in any cross burst.

Saffran
May 27, 2013, 04:23 AM
I think it's simply a matter of disrupting the killing flow and kill overall a lot less things simply to make sure that you get what you can.
If you do bursts for the exp, don't pick up anything, but don't compain afterwards.
If you do bursts for the rares, kill less things and pick up stuff as they drop.

Sadly, I don't think you can reasonably expect to get the best of both worlds.

jooozek
May 27, 2013, 04:30 AM
Maybe you shouldn't pick up everything on the ground besides anything yellow or red. Seems to help me in any cross burst.

you don't get to pick to pick up what you want
in condensed spawns like i just posted the picture
you will usually grab everything around first


I think it's simply a matter of disrupting the killing flow and kill overall a lot less things simply to make sure that you get what you can.
If you do bursts for the exp, don't pick up anything, but don't compain afterwards.
If you do bursts for the rares, kill less things and pick up stuff as they drop.

Sadly, I don't think you can reasonably expect to get the best of both worlds.

my stance would be same yours if only the drop rates weren't so terrible
i'm not talking about missing out on something that will drop in 30 minutes from now
it's all about shit that might never ever drop again for you
and you know it's true because its PSO2

Meji
May 27, 2013, 04:58 AM
except, im picking up things fast enough (even have in joy2key the pickup item made to repeat 30 times in one second) but even then in that situation shit will spawn in place of the shit you pick up because drops push off each other, they cant spawn on top of each otherI'll take it that's one of the cons of being in the #1 Team on Ship:02. If you kill things too fast, then that's your problem. I don't think SEGA had PSE-bursts like that in mind when they put down the items-on-ground-limit.

jooozek
May 27, 2013, 05:10 AM
it's not a con of being in #1 team on ship02, that doesn't even matter
even in PUGs in EMs japanese can organise themselves and camp exists when they have no relation to each other
so yeah, that's not a con of being in an active team
and anyway, it doesn't matter what shit had sega in their minds when they made it
it needs a change
guess you won't agree till you lose a 10* to shit like that

TaigaUC
May 27, 2013, 07:59 AM
"Nobody needs to fix or make anything better, it's all your fault."

I'll never understand that mentality. Enemies of improvement, defenders of error. Satisfaction through suck.

Alex305!
May 27, 2013, 08:06 AM
"Nobody needs to fix or make anything better, it's all your fault."

I'll never understand that mentality. Enemies of improvement, defenders of error. Satisfaction through suck.

This seems to be a common trend here but this is a serious issue. However earlier one had a point when they said sega did not have exit bursts in mind.

I would say until sega shines some light on this issue. Be wary of drops during bursts. What I do with friends is we take turns. Call out a rare or items rush in grab a few priority items and run back. Take no more than 3 seconds and you can keep the spawns somewhat tight.

gigawuts
May 27, 2013, 08:17 AM
I'll take it that's one of the cons of being in the #1 Team on Ship:02. If you kill things too fast, then that's your problem. I don't think SEGA had PSE-bursts like that in mind when they put down the items-on-ground-limit.

That's not an excuse for poor design for a limit or capacity that can be exceeded by players who play the game well.

I mean, it'd be like giving PSE bursts a maximum limit of enemies per minute, and then automatically ending a burst if nothing dies for 10 seconds. if you're mediocre you can get a nonstop PSE burst for an hour, but if you're even a little bit too good nothing is left to spawn and it ends after one minute.

Very bad design that doesn't account for the hectic and realistic nature of the game, when all they had to do was put a check for "is rare? don't delete" when purging old items.

Anyway, my solution for this has been to intentionally pack my inventory with a ton of trash items, soak up meseta around the desired item with an E-key spam macro (works MUCH faster than just plain holding it down, since it activates on each individual item separately), and then use the method HC4 mentioned to clear a ton of space by deleting most/all of a section (discs, 0 slot weapons/units, etc.)

Meji
May 27, 2013, 09:32 AM
guess you won't agree till you lose a 10* to shit like thatOh, I know SEGA has some bullshit programming in this game, but one has to adapt until they so desire to change it.

And I totally know the feel. Having a PSE burst while launching up a Gorongo to the edge of a map, only to drop a tekked rare rifle which you will never be able to reach is something I find even worse and more annoying.
Then again, it could've been just a normal red rifle. The world will never know.

.Jack
May 27, 2013, 11:02 AM
Going back to what I mentioned earlier about deleting things fast. You can clear out half your inventory in a matter of seconds by holding down the right trigger on your gamepad. I'm not sure what key it is on your keyboard. Here's a quick demo:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAbKjmYBEGQ

Ezodagrom
May 27, 2013, 11:07 AM
Yeah, rare items disappearing is something that needs to be fixed, rare items shouldn't disappear at all, but, end bursts should be fixed as well, that's obviously not how a burst is supposed to be.
I wonder how people come up with such dull ways of doing things...

jooozek
May 27, 2013, 11:08 AM
im doing that always man but you know that? it wont help you if you notice something and 5 seconds later it disappears
thats just how fast the bursts and chaos is


I wonder how people come up with such dull ways of doing things...
its the same way sega comes up with the terrible drop rates

Z-0
May 27, 2013, 11:08 AM
Here's a faster way to do it: Instead of holding down to scroll to the bottom of the menu, press up three times from the top item to go straight to the bottom of that item category.

Yeah I mentioned this in my first post in this thread but guess nobody noticed

BIG OLAF
May 27, 2013, 11:09 AM
end bursts should be fixed as well, that's obviously not how a burst is supposed to be.
I wonder how people come up with such dull ways of doing things...

Because it's HYPER EFFICIENT and they need to be the VERY BEST, like Ash Ketchum.

gigawuts
May 27, 2013, 11:09 AM
Going back to what I mentioned earlier about deleting things fast. You can clear out half your inventory in a matter of seconds by holding down the right trigger on your gamepad. I'm not sure what key it is on your keyboard. Here's a quick demo:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAbKjmYBEGQ

You can do it faster if you tap up a few times to revert to the bottom, instead of holding down.

Ezodagrom
May 27, 2013, 11:16 AM
Because it's HYPER EFFICIENT and they need to be the VERY BEST, like Ash Ketchum.
Now I have to Pokemon theme stuck in my head... D:


Going back to what I mentioned earlier about deleting things fast. You can clear out half your inventory in a matter of seconds by holding down the right trigger on your gamepad. I'm not sure what key it is on your keyboard. Here's a quick demo:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAbKjmYBEGQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAbKjmYBEGQ)
Just checked, in the keyboard it's shift + up or down.

.Jack
May 27, 2013, 11:18 AM
You can do it faster if you tap up a few times to revert to the bottom, instead of holding down.

This is great for disks, but I can imagine accidentally erasing all my units at once if I start doing this so I'll just stick to what I'm used to.

gigawuts
May 27, 2013, 11:22 AM
I lock every unit I want to keep between waves specifically to avoid that (you can select a mix of locked items and unlocked items, hit trash all, and it won't trash the locked items), but I imagine during prolonged bursts it's not so easy to flip through all the units you've looted..

Z-0
May 27, 2013, 11:26 AM
I just bank everything coz I don't store anything.

Coatl
May 27, 2013, 12:15 PM
end bursts should be fixed as well, that's obviously not how a burst is supposed to be.


Is there an instruction manual to this game that I didn't know about?

MetalDude
May 27, 2013, 01:36 PM
Not really sure what's bad about exit bursts. It's specifically programmed not to allow enemies to spawn past a certain line in exits and entrances most likely to prevent them from getting out of the player's range.

Z-0
May 27, 2013, 01:39 PM
I wonder what's so terrible about people wanting to play "efficiently" in order to farm items and experience faster.

Never really understood the mentality that it's "bad".

gigawuts
May 27, 2013, 01:40 PM
Well, what's "bad" about them is bursts were balanced around enemies spawning all around you, forcing you to spread your forces thin to kill everything. If you can focus fire in one small area that means not only are you hitting everything, you can use the higher damage shorter range moves to do it.

So it wasn't really intended, and bursts should be changed to spawn at the nearest set number of spawns instead of the nearest spawn. I.E. instead of being forced to spawn at a point if you're within X distance, it's forced to spawn at any point within X distance or at the nearest 4-5-whatever spawn points.

It's another oversight that is easily predictable and easily resolved long before launch. The game really was not tested thoroughly, at all.

Xaeris
May 27, 2013, 02:55 PM
I wonder what's so terrible about people wanting to play "efficiently" in order to farm items and experience faster.

Never really understood the mentality that it's "bad".

I don't have a pony in this race, but if you're genuinely confused by people maligning how other people choose to enjoy the game, I hope this experience gives you cause rethink every waifu dressup comment you think to make in the future.

Z-0
May 27, 2013, 02:59 PM
^ man I just got owned.

if anything I'm not really against anyone, I 'm just really frustrated at sega and tend to take it out on that specifically.

Walkure
May 27, 2013, 06:31 PM
Unfortunately when it comes to a burst (especially one at an exit or entrance), it's really hard to pick up a specific item because of the amount of items in the vicinity. It's taken me a while to pick up one item, although I don't really have any problems since I just bank everything quickly (on a controller, hold your dodge button, then press up 3 times from the top item to highlight everything in an item category, then you can bank all at once (or discard)).
+

except, im picking up things fast enough (even have in joy2key the pickup item made to repeat 30 times in one second) but even then in that situation shit will spawn in place of the shit you pick up because drops push off each other, they cant spawn on top of each other
Just want to say these two bits of info help a lot. Thanks for sharing them!
http://i.imgur.com/u5Yk7wU.png

Zalana
May 27, 2013, 10:25 PM
Doesn't make it much easier to pickup items when your suffering from a 200+ ping from the server. Very annoying to deal with in a exit burst.

DreXxiN
May 27, 2013, 10:50 PM
^ man I just got owned.

if anything I'm not really against anyone, I 'm just really frustrated at sega and tend to take it out on that specifically.

You didn't really get "owned". You feel upset because of the previous gameplay-centric focus of development for former Phantasy Star titles has since shifted to target the demograph of these so called "waifu-dressup" players.

Because of that, a lot of people feel cheated in the sense that since the fashion is where the money comes in, that has become Sega's new focal point with the game, which means gameplay elements will be put on the backburner essentially. It's good business and sure the combat is still great, but things could be better -- and while there were always those that were more concerned with fashion elements in the game before-hand, combat and level design enthusiasts didn't feel left behind because the model of the game encompassed all of those things, as opposed to the current F2P system which puts a heavy emphasis on the ability to pay to look neat.

Improving gameplay and releasing areas is more of a way to keep players vaguely interested and dripfed rather than being their primary source of revenue, as the unique content in their previous RPG's were. I hope you understand what I mean. To clarify, there's nothing wrong with playing any such way, but the "dress-up doll" way to play the game has now become the primary audience and purpose. Can't blame SEGA, it's good business I guess.

BlankM
May 28, 2013, 12:23 AM
Never really been in a 12-man exit burst chaotic enough for me to lose items consistently, but yeah I also bank pretty much everything and don't pick up anything but reds during exit bursts.

The problem here though, is that PSE bursts become counter-intuitive. You want to stay close because thats how you get the most efficiency out of them, but then you lose out on all the great drops. Drops that should just go straight to your inventory instead of cluttering the screen.

Also red boxes should be prioritized. If any item disappears it should always be random junk that disappears before a red. Is it really that hard?

I've really only lost one rare, during a 12-man ruins MPA. Nothing drops there that I want, but I was a little irked. It's just bad design really. The fact that PSE bursts are a reward off ENDLESS MONSTERS SPAWNS AND BONUSES yet they are reaped in the form of laggy AB/Zondeel fests is just too reminiscent of so many grindy asian MMOs. I'd rather PSE bursts have guaranteed good rewards but be harder to keep up without skilled and co-ordinated players.

TaigaUC
May 28, 2013, 05:00 AM
The issue here is that game design elements such as PSE burst directly conflict with elements such as loot and inventory, combat mechanics, traveling across the map, quest completion, visual and audio cues, etc. These result in various issues, some of which have very simple solutions, such as the suggestions made by various posters in this thread. The most SEGA has done regarding PSE bursts was try to discourage people from focusing on bursts by setting parties to become unjoinable after a few hours, but that solution ultimately does nothing to fix any of the fundamental problems at hand. That says a lot about the skill level of their game designers. Perhaps it's only blatantly obvious to me because of my line of work.

There's a fine line between game design and player ability. The same applies to anything else. It could be a bad film and an unhappy audience. There's a point where it isn't a matter of opinion or subjectivity anymore, and is simply factual. If the complaints in this thread are truly nothing but nonsense, then by all means, let them fade into obscurity. But just because you might not personally see a problem, doesn't mean there isn't a problem at all.

If you're a person who doesn't see any of these problems, then good for you. It doesn't benefit any of us to know that you're happy, or to have our concerns dismissed as our own fault. Sure, there are cases where a person who doesn't know what they're talking about complains about things that aren't really issues, but there isn't any need to stamp them down. If the developers are smart, they will only pay attention to people with valid concerns. That is what I do when I filter feedback, I prioritise people I know I can trust. But feedback is useless if I dismiss all complaints. Compliments serve to encourage, but complaints and criticisms are required to be able to improve.

I find that most people are eager to dismiss any kind of complaint, without even considering whether they are valid or not. They just want to be happy, even if it's all a lie. People generally become upset when they realize that something they believe in or that they have a strong affection for turns out to not be good, or has always been a lie. It reflects negatively upon them, shattering their security and self-confidence, and so they go into denial. There are also people who purposely dismiss everyone else to make themselves feel superior. A person who truly wants to improve needs to be above these things.

We all make mistakes, it's a fact of reality. We need to make mistakes in order to become stronger and better. Some of us have higher standards and don't want to ignore the problems we see around us. We don't need selfish people going out of their way to pull everyone else down to their low standards. We want to make things better for everyone, and not just for ourselves. If people weren't motivated by a desire to improve, we'd still be living in caves and making fires with flint and stone. The world would still be considered square.

True happiness and satisfaction are gleaned through improvement and solving actual problems, not pretending everything's fine and deluding ourselves into a false sense of contentedness.

AgemFrostMage
May 28, 2013, 06:03 AM
You didn't really get "owned". You feel upset because of the previous gameplay-centric focus of development for former Phantasy Star titles has since shifted to target the demograph of these so called "waifu-dressup" players.

Because of that, a lot of people feel cheated in the sense that since the fashion is where the money comes in, that has become Sega's new focal point with the game, which means gameplay elements will be put on the backburner essentially. It's good business and sure the combat is still great, but things could be better -- and while there were always those that were more concerned with fashion elements in the game before-hand, combat and level design enthusiasts didn't feel left behind because the model of the game encompassed all of those things, as opposed to the current F2P system which puts a heavy emphasis on the ability to pay to look neat.

Improving gameplay and releasing areas is more of a way to keep players vaguely interested and dripfed rather than being their primary source of revenue, as the unique content in their previous RPG's were. I hope you understand what I mean. To clarify, there's nothing wrong with playing any such way, but the "dress-up doll" way to play the game has now become the primary audience and purpose. Can't blame SEGA, it's good business I guess.

I may like cool costumes but the gameplay needs to come first. It is great but when the second major boss (I count Catadran as a minor) is the toughest mechanic wise something is wrong. Big Vader, Zeshrayda, and Goronzoran are fun bosses while Chrome Dragon fight is always intense and keeps you on edge and we are relieved to not take it the damage. Vol Dragon though, he is just cheap he turns his head and sometimes during the best time to spam gibarta on the horn he without warning breaths fire when you cannot dodge. Also the armor. He's no real problem with a partisan hunter and samegid gets in a few free shots on the nose at the start of a fight but still moves around so for horn breaking distance keeping is too impractical past the beginning.

AgemFrostMage
May 28, 2013, 06:19 AM
Never really been in a 12-man exit burst chaotic enough for me to lose items consistently, but yeah I also bank pretty much everything and don't pick up anything but reds during exit bursts.

The problem here though, is that PSE bursts become counter-intuitive. You want to stay close because thats how you get the most efficiency out of them, but then you lose out on all the great drops. Drops that should just go straight to your inventory instead of cluttering the screen.

Also red boxes should be prioritized. If any item disappears it should always be random junk that disappears before a red. Is it really that hard?

I've really only lost one rare, during a 12-man ruins MPA. Nothing drops there that I want, but I was a little irked. It's just bad design really. The fact that PSE bursts are a reward off ENDLESS MONSTERS SPAWNS AND BONUSES yet they are reaped in the form of laggy AB/Zondeel fests is just too reminiscent of so many grindy asian MMOs. I'd rather PSE bursts have guaranteed good rewards but be harder to keep up without skilled and co-ordinated players.

Agreed though much of the lag is probably from NPC mag abilities with the unicorn and PP accelerate and such too many effects. Also is the best time to save EXP boosters for ^_^

Agastya
May 28, 2013, 07:34 AM
I may like cool costumes but the gameplay needs to come first. It is great but when the second major boss (I count Catadran as a minor) is the toughest mechanic wise something is wrong. Big Vader, Zeshrayda, and Goronzoran are fun bosses while Chrome Dragon fight is always intense and keeps you on edge and we are relieved to not take it the damage. Vol Dragon though, he is just cheap he turns his head and sometimes during the best time to spam gibarta on the horn he without warning breaths fire when you cannot dodge. Also the armor. He's no real problem with a partisan hunter and samegid gets in a few free shots on the nose at the start of a fight but still moves around so for horn breaking distance keeping is too impractical past the beginning.
vol dragon is unfair

mister krabs is in there

standing at the concession

plotting his oppression

gigawuts
May 28, 2013, 07:45 AM
Doesn't make it much easier to pickup items when your suffering from a 200+ ping from the server. Very annoying to deal with in a exit burst.

I'd think it would, if you haven't tried it then definitely do so. It grabs each item you target independently as soon as you target it with a separate keypress.

If you have tried it and it doesn't help much, then welp.

jooozek
May 28, 2013, 08:19 AM
i have like 520ms and it helps a lot but of course it won't help you pick a single item up faster
from resmon
http://sadpanda.us/images/1627097-TC1FSPN.png

Z-0
May 28, 2013, 09:11 AM
It doesn't really help at all because you have trouble picking up certain items under other ones. You'll always pick up faster with better ping.

jooozek
May 28, 2013, 09:17 AM
It doesn't really help at all because you have trouble picking up certain items under other ones. You'll always pick up faster with better ping.

without it you will be slow as fuck even to get all meseta from around the item

gigawuts
May 28, 2013, 09:35 AM
without it you will be slow as fuck even to get all meseta from around the item

This x10

The game seems to place a lag between items you pick up when you simply hold down the button (doing continuous, uninterrupted input). It also seems to be ping-based, because there's virtually no lag between multiple item pickups on JP TA videos I've seen. It probably waits to get the okay from the server before it attempts to pick up another item when held, but if you just spam it for each item it requests it independently of other items.

With the 30 presses per second in J2K my item pickup rate went from probably 2-3 per second to easily 10+ per second, but the actual pickup itself is still delayed by ping. It'll just be a delay before I suddenly pick up a ton of items, not a delay for each individual item before I can pick up another.

Another example of "why did they do this, what the actual fuck, this would be so easy to fix."

Z-0
May 28, 2013, 10:12 AM
Oh, I also spam the confirm button when picking stuff up, but it still isn't fast enough to pick up a specific item that I actually want though, since there's just too much shit around said item for me to pick up stuff around it fast enough.

(which is pretty much what I said last time)

Aine
May 28, 2013, 11:23 AM
Is J2K only for pad, or can you make macros for keyboard as well?

Macman
May 28, 2013, 01:31 PM
Vol Dragon though, he is just cheap he turns his head and sometimes during the best time to spam gibarta on the horn he without warning breaths fire when you cannot dodge.
You should stop playing with the sound muted. A lot of Vol's tells are audible.